wotbibliophile

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  1. I think that is quite harsh. I didn't think she was the villain. I thought Venli was the villain. Eshonai was enslaved.
  2. I agree with this. But I think she pushed Kaladin toward Shallan so hard because she knew he had feelings for her. I think from the scene with the ardent (so the beginning of the book) all the way to the end of the book (when Shallan and Adolin are ready to get married) Syl was pushing Kaladin toward Shallan. That's a long time and a lot of consistency. There was also the scene where Kaladin thinks his feelings are ganging up on him, telling him Tarah was right to leave him and he doesn't deserve love which I think supports @SLNC's point. Kaladin felt unworthy of Tarah and Shallan. Jasnah is almost the only available woman in Kaladin's sphere. They would be okay, but I don't really want them to be a couple. I don't like Jasnah. I used to like her a lot in WOK but the more I read about her the more callous she seems. She is too trigger happy for me.
  3. I think Shallan likes manipulating Adolin. [I'm thinking of when Shallan was relieved Adolin hadn't figured out her manipulation to get onto the Shattered Plains and her reaction to Dalinar when he learned she was a Radiant "But how will I fool people?"] Adolin is worried about her pretending to be other people and wants to help her. Shallan says she will work on it. But instead, Veil and Adolin become drinking buddies. And Shallan makes the note that they haven't been intimate yet. That sounds like a plan to keep Veil and a plan to make Adolin do things her way. I don't think Adolin is capable of standing his ground with Shallan. I think Shallan is happy that she can get Adolin to do whatever she wants. She got him to pretend Veil and Radiant are real and different people than her. As if she wasn't the person directing their every move. I agree she has severe mental issues. I think she has trouble recognizing reality. Like when she wasn't sure her brothers were alive. She thought she might have imagined the spanreed conversations they had. I think not being able to recognize reality is a spectacular reason to not get married. I was going to bring up Kaladin to try to keep this on topic, but I thought of more Shallan stuff. Shallan wants Adolin to see her a certain way. She talks about how she is always hiding how broken she is. She considers making Radiant his wife. She is relieved he doesn't see her drawing of Kaladin. And most important: She doesn't tell him about how she grew up. This says to me that she does not trust him. (I mean, what if he didn't want to marry her if he knew? This is what I think is running through Shallan's mind. I certainly think it is possible Adolin would want to marry her. I just don't think Shallan believes it.) Finally, Kaladin is the best. Whoever he ends up with will like flying and they will fly together. That knocks Adolin out of contention. Shallan is still in!
  4. I didn't cheer. I thought it was quite sad, but I didn't hate Moash for killing Elhokar. I thought he could still be a good guy and rejoin Bridge 4 up until Moash killed Jezrien. Then I was sad for Moash and the probability he would never rejoin Bridge 4. I certainly like Moash a lot more than Dalinar.
  5. When did Moash save Kaladin's life? Is it something that happened directly or indirectly?
  6. I was so surprised by the deaths in OB that I still feel disbelief. Eshonai and all Kaladin's friends and Elhokar in Kholinar. I am holding out hope that Eshonai makes a comeback. I don't care how contrived it is. There have been lots of undead characters of characters I do not like. To balance the scales, Eshonai should become undead because I like her.
  7. I dislike Shallan and Adolin because Shallan is constantly lying to him. Even when she's trying to be honest, she is so out of touch with reality that she ends up lying. Like saying Veil is interested in Kaladin when in fact Veil doesn't exist. Only Shallan is real. I'm glad someone else doubted that Adolin knows Shallan. I keep trying to think of what he knows about her, but really she does her best to hide from him and everyone. Kaladin doesn't know Shallan that well, but she is more honest with him. She told him about how she grew up. She is courting Adolin and he still has no idea. What did they talk about? How did they get to know each other? She's married to him and I wonder if he knows her brothers names. Her brothers made it to the wedding so he should, but I doubt she ever talked about them. This is very disturbing to me. I think we agree that Shallan is a mess. But her mess is hers. It is not up to Adolin or Wit or anyone to tell Shallan who she is. It is up to Shallan. Anyway, I strongly disagree that Adolin recognizes true Shallan. He knows what she looks like. What about her fight with the unmade in Urithiru? She talks about how she hates being thought of as clever. I thought that was more honest than how she behaves around Adolin. What about what Sanderson said about Shallan's temper? Sanderson thought that was more true to Shallan. I don't think that is something Adolin would recognize. @Calderis You brought up reality. I'm reading a fantasy and reality is not a priority for me. My priority is consistency. If a character starts out a certain way they need to keep on that way or the changes in the character need to be explained/understood. [For example, Kaladin hates lighteyes. His exposure to lighteyes who are honorable and kind is changing this. Done.] OB was missing a lot of that explanation. I felt characters were doing whatever Sanderson's outline needed them to do and it was quite confusing. I have tried hard to understand Shallan. I've failed. I believe, like Shallan says, that Shallan and Veil are equally false. They are a front she puts up because she is always hiding. She uses Shallan and Veil to achieve certain ends and to hide the pain she feels from others and herself. Shallan was made because her father insisted she be a proper Vorin girl and she needed to uplift her brothers. Veil was made so Shallan could pretend she never killed her mother (and possibly because Veil would not have loved her father? This last is something Sanderson said). I've gone on and on. I'll try to make this about Kaladin's love life. Um . . . I strongly believe Kaladin is ready for a relationship now. Some people have said he has stuff to figure out first. I disagree. He would make a great partner. I think Kaladin had (and still has) a crush on Shallan. He did not doubt that she was able to take care of herself. She went into the palace in Kholinar and Kaladin was fine being support even knowing this was a lethal situation. She ends up stabbed and nearly dead and Kaladin doesn't react like "you must never be in danger ever again. I shall protect you." Instead he makes a joke because he understands that is what she wants in that moment. I believe Kaladin needs a partner who is his equal. He sees Shallan as his equal (even his superior) and he is not over protective and he is not crippled into inaction. Also, anyone who doesn't understand his desire to protect bridge 4 and the time he will take to care for them is not worth his time. I like Kaladin and Adolin as a couple. I think they make good friends and I wouldn't be bothered if it became more, but I am sure Kaladin is straight. I think Adolin might have a crush on Kaladin. One last thing about love. Kaladin, Shallan, and Sanderson use the word love. From what I read, I never thought anyone in the triangle was in love with anyone else. I thought everybody was at the level of infatuation. Kind of swooning, but not a lot of depth.
  8. I agree more with @Void89 than with @Winds Alight . I thought the ending was terrible. I don't see why I should believe Kaladin when he says he doesn't love her. He said all through OB that he wasn't interested, that Shallan and Adolin were together, and Syl kept pushing because he obviously was interested. He says she reminds him of Tien and that is something he already knew because he thought of it in the chasms. Its not new. It's the same old thing. Kaladin has a pattern. He could tell she had made a choice and since it wasn't him he said he wasn't interested in her anyway. And yeah he was calm about it. He was calm about it at the end of WOR, too. When he felt so rejected that she hadn't looked at him. He says the same thing. That they fit. Kaladin also said in OB he liked Shallan and Adolin, just not together. I am with him there. I like Shallan and Adolin, just not together. I also hated, no matter how brief, the little fight between Adolin and Shallan. At no time do I think Adolin ever thought of Shallan as his property or as someone he could put where ever he wanted. He says outright that he is trying to respect the choice she already made. Because of how she was acting, he believed she wanted to be with Kaladin. And, come on, two seconds ago she brushed him off to rush toward Kaladin so he had reason to think that. He was not far off. And I hated that Shallan said "He knows me." Adolin knowing what Shallan looks like has to be the worst basis for a relationship ever. If Sanderson wanted to give the impression that Adolin knew Shallan better than Kaladin, he could have set it up much better. I never had the impression that Adolin knew or understood Shallan very well. Her decision to be with him is immediately followed by her assuring him all the things he observed about her preferring Kaladin were wrong and really she wants to be with him. Her wanting to be with him is fine. Her deciding to be with him because he knows her then telling him he is all wrong about her is a painful contradiction. It left me very confused. My head was spinning, my eyes were crossing. TLDR: I found the conclusion of Kaladin/Adolin/Shallan to be unbelievable.
  9. I don't agree. I wasn't annoyed with Lift in that scene. Of course, I really like Lift. But I don't think Dalinar was annoyed either. He was more surprised and confounded at her logic. The Stormfather was definitely annoyed though. Maybe that was Sanderson taking into account how some readers would react to Lift and her inappropriateness.
  10. I really don't like Nale either. I certainly can't follow his reasoning whether he is an idiot or mad. I did like that Lift listened to him. It briefly seemed like he was turning a corner, but then . . . he was Nale.
  11. I am annoyed by him, but I do think he is trustworthy. I am annoyed by him because he is like other characters Sanderson has written where Sanderson's and my own sense of humor do not mesh. He is irritating not funny. I also find him unrealistic. The scene where he and Palona are chilling while a battle is fought and two high storms clash was too much for me. Again not funny just irritating. I can't imagine anyone really acting like that while those things happen and anyone who did is an [swear word removed].
  12. Favorite is Kaladin. By far my favorite SA character. I like that he is so caring and when he gets down he gets back up. I like that he is a teacher, he just can't help himself. He makes the people around him stronger. He is the best. Next favorites Lift, Rock (does he count?), Adolin (he knows Maya's name = close enough) in that order. I like Lift a lot. She is one tough kid and she pays attention. I like that Rock says fighting is beneath him. Adolin is pretty cool. I like that he got Maya to talk to him. Least favorite Dalinar and Szeth. Not a fan of mass murderers. Edit: I see Shallan that way too. OB convinced me she is less callous than I thought her, but I still see her as very manipulative. I like her okay. She is middling among the characters I like.
  13. Oooh. Very cool. I would love it, if this was another secret from herself. I believed her when she said she didn't know where Plate came from. It'll be a nice surprise if she already has Plate. I think Dalinar might Ascend as well. It sure seemed like he had a mini ascension already.
  14. Jasnah may have her plate but she's not someone we've been following very closely so I would still consider it a win if Shallan got her plate before Kaladin. Of the main characters I could get over Dalinar's death easiest. Just looking at Kaladin/Shallan/Adolin. I'm not sure. As long as Kaladin is alive, I could survive it.
  15. I agree Adolin has been using Dalinar as his lodestone, but that may be coming to an end. I hope he feels betrayed when he learns Dalinar killed his mother and lied about it. I don't completely discount the possibility that Adolin could fall to Odium, but I think it is unlikely.