Mah'alleinir

Hey, pretty cool theory. I have little problems with it that I'll elaborate later as I now lack the time but for the time being, would you mind to try to rephrase some of it? Mostly at the begining. Maybe it was me but it took me a little to get into it 'cause I wasn't able to follow where you were going.

In my experience, in spanish, they translate some words and leave some others. It's rather complicated 'cause spanish doesn't exactly have compound words, except sometimes. Maybe. For example "spren" are left like that, but "fearspren" is translated to "miedospren" (which is kindda fun sounding for native spanish speakers cause we usually don't do that) Also "Allomancy" is translated to "Alomancia" where "Allo", from alloy, should be "Aleo", from "aleación", and "mancy"="mancia" (from greek both words). What I wanna say with this is that it's not only a matter of the language translated to but also of the word itself and the translators decition or lack of realization. As for the magic systems, it's defintely not that every world has three magic systems. Magic is really complex in the cosmere. Each shard "has it's own system" but each one depends (a bit) on the way people think about it (they mold it through the cognitive realm) and the interactions between shards can result in "new systems". So what it may seem like ten magic systems might just be a veriety of manifestations of two shardic systems through thought or interaction. And last, I don't think so. Shards have "intuitive knowledge" of lots (way to many) of things and it would be rather strange if one of those things wasn't how their magic system works. Also, as explained, what each system can do is heavily influenced by user's perceptions of it (Kaladin not healing his slave scars and many more examples)

So I was re-reading Codex Alera and found this funny match

My bad, sorry. Should I delete it though? It's not like I give actually anything away. And I hope the thing I'm talking about get's cannonized in some way.

I think that certain magic from aether of night may allow for human hybrids. Also the where some weird creatures there but I don't remember them well enoguh Also I think that metalminds may count as magic amulets.

Killed by some fused when they took Moash

Damnation! I was tottally lost on that. Thanks for clearing it up!!

Hey, maybe I'm missing something but I thought that the period between Dev+Dom beeing splintered and the story in Elantris was much shorter. The prologue ends with paradise ending ten years ago (maybe an error). Or maybe it's my mistake as I always thought that Elantris fell when Dev+Dom were splintered

I don't know how but I totally got it backwards, sorry! HAHA

I'm sorry but I disagree. Exploiting loopholes in a contract is what breaking the spirit means. Nevermind if it's a loophole you were specifically aware when making it or one you found later. Have you (not just Calderis, you people) read Dresden Files? Interactions with the Fae dance around this kind of things all the time. The only way I can see to get a situation in wich either side would think the other broke the spirit while said one would think he didn't, would be if both sides genuinely had different ideas of what the contract meant and also was oblivious to the other's side idea of the contract. And I don't see that happening with any shard but I guess time will tell. Also, Leras never claims he sticks to the spirit of his agreements, Odium does (don't know if it applies to the spirit of his claims too) but if ge CAN lie we don't really know if he trully keeps the spirit of his words/agreements.

I think you might be right about this but just to be certain, I seem to recall that in his conversations with Dalinar Odium claims to be (always) sincere and, at least gave me the impression, that he insinuates he doesn't/can't lie. Maybe he is intentionally mixing this things with the fact that he would keep the spirit of a pact in order to trick humans into believing he can't lie. And if he can lie how do we know if it's true what he says about the spirit of a pact (there may be a WoB, I haven't looked) To Diomedes: Spoiler tagg contains arguments against you before reading your last edit I'm still leaving them because till this point I don't think you where actually making that argument at all. I think either I didn't get it, you failed to present it that way, or you changed your argument. So as I see them as different argument I think my answers till this point are still valid against what you were previously saying For the point you make on your last edit I could buy that way of keeping the spirit and winning the ardents over (or some at least,) if you can make the case that modern Vorinism is more aligned with Odium than Honor. And Odium would only be keeping the spirit if he would explain that, although they started as Honor's religion, they've been following his way for "x" time now. And he could use the fact that humanity started on his side in his favor. I mean, if he lies by omitting the bit of Vorinism begining with Honor (if this is actually true), I'd still think he would be breaking the spirit. I say this 'cause, imagine we both lived in USA, and imagine we sign a contract in wich you provide some service for me and in exchange I'll pay you a million dollars. Suppose it's written exactly like that and that there are no laws about the default currency of exchange inside USA (I don't know if there actually are). Now, when I pay you I do so in NZD, that are worth around 0,6 USD. I would technically be keeping the letter but if I knew you were thinking USD when signing, I'd be breaking the spirit

I was on the same track you are about the importance of where the term originated and that's why I said "...even if all that is right.." and proceeded to my actual point. But know we seem to be on different tracks again. You even ignored the question I made that was fundamental to my point. I conceed that he could, theoretically, make most of those claims without beeing untruthful. Assume that he could tell all those things and based on the ignorance of the ardents, the vagueness of their terms and little knowledge of the actual events, he could get them to his side. Now answer this: Would you agree that the fact is Vorinism is a religion that begun worshipping Honor and it's him who they mean by the Almighty? I mean, they worshiped the Heralds and those are of Honor, they had, for a time, the Radiants in high esteem, and those are his too. How on damnation saying the things you claim that he needs to say would not be breaking the spirit while keeping the letter? If the real origin of Vorinism is aligned with Honor, Odium would need to outright lie in the claims you say he'd use! Why do you understand by break the spirit whilst keeping the letter? I guess the only why you could still have a point is by proving that Vorinism actually originated with Odium and the claims he would have to make about Honor, his Heralds and Knights are all factually true... but remember that the desolations where usually so destructive prior to the Radiants that almost all info was lost, I guess they could survive a couple but... from the first and then be hijacked by Honor as you would have Odium claim? To twisted, man. Lastly, I don't think your parallel with Earths religions works as Vorinism could (and rather seems to) actually be factually based

None taken, it just seemed you were arguing against what you thought I thought instead of what I was argumenting. I shouldn't have answered that roughly, sorry for that. I just hate people saying "this is what you think" when I know for a fact it isn't. Spoiler tags for length's sake. Anyway I'm devating because even if you were right about everything you say, I just fail to see how exploiting such technicalities isn't going against the spirit of the letter. Yes, he could dance around a lot of facts and such to make the Ardents believe he is the god they based their religion on but the fact is that's not true at all. Ardents may not know it and he could use such thing but that would be being dishonest. I mean exploting loopholes, letting people assume things that are not true or partially true while not lying directly is exactly what breaking the spirit while keeping the letter means to me. And I think that that's where we seem to disagree. What would you say that would mean to break the spirit whilst keeping the letter intact?

In favor of keeping a civil discussion I will simply point out that you don't know what I think.That if that's what you get from what I'm saying you're simply wrong and I'm gonna ask you to not be so arrogant as to believe your reasoning leads inevitable to the truth of what I think. Don't stay on that track. What I'm saying is that Vorinism teaches that the desolations were terrible wars between humankind and voidbringers. From what you can get humans≠voidbringers according to Vorinism, doesn't matter if it's true or not. Is what they believe. SO the god humans call Almighty in Vorinism can't be the same god the voibringers have and thus it's irrelevant to the point the fact that they've changed gods and sides. Claiming he is the Almighty through such technicality when it's against Vorinism teachings would be breaking the spirit while sticking to the letter

Yeah, but don't you see how all of this is dependant of focusing on the letter rather than the spirit of the claims?