OscarTheSingingHobo

My question: How did the desolations end? We know that they happened again and again whenever the heralds cracked under torture, allowing the returned to flow back to Roshar. But how did they get the genie back into the bottle? Here are my thoughts on possible ways they ended: 1. The desolation ended whenever one of the heralds died. Jasnah seems to believe this theory, since she proposed that they should seek out the heralds and bump them off to prevent/end the desolation. However, if this is the case, why didn't the heralds just kill each other or commit suicide, rather than subject the very people they swore to protect with the oathpact to genocide? Also, if the heralds dying ended a desolation, then the returned would have no desire to kill them. Odiums forces might try to just incapacitate and not kill them, but I image that would have been difficult, given their honor blades. 2. The desolations ended when all of the returned had been destroyed before they could inhabit another singer body. This could explain why the only desolation we have a lot of details about (the most recent one where the heralds abandoned the oathpact) ended with a huge battle. Fight to kill all of the returned and then the heralds would go back to prevent them from showing up again. However, if this is the case, why wouldn't odium just tell one returned to go hide in some cave somewhere and avoid detection? 3. There was a time limit to the desolations. Perhaps Odium and his forces had a specific time period in which they had to accomplish some kind of goal before they were forced back. That would explain why they might end with a huge battle, if they would be trying to push to accomplish their goals. But then we know that one desolation lasted 11 years, so unless they time constraint changes every desolation, I doubt they would have made that distinction about 11 years if there was a time constraint. Does anyone have any idea about how these came to an end, or know of a WoB about them?

I would love to see a PoV from either Iyatil while she is pretending to be crazy, or from one of the Ardents who have to deal with her while she is pretending to be crazy.

Ah, that is what I have been missing. Thank you for pointing out that WoB. This raises another question. Is Brandon referring to Roshar as a planet, or to Roshar as a system? If Brandon is referring to Roshar as a planet, then the 3 would be Odium, Honor, and Cultivation (although Odium is on Braize, he seems to have a lot of influence on Roshar, especially during desolations). If the death rattle, however, is referring to the System on a whole, then perhaps there was a shard on Ashyn at one point, but is no longer there. This WoB is interesting in this context: "Does not currently" have a shard can mean many things. Maybe it never had one to begin with and never will have one, that it had one that left, or that it will get one in the future. What if the death rattle was referring to the Roshar System on a whole, and not just the planet? What if there was a third shard on Ashyn, but it fled when Odium arrived, leaving behind traces of investiture like Ambition did on Therondy. Or perhaps its like First of the Sun, having a natural amount of pre-shattering investiture present. We do know that Adonalsium took some interest into the development of Roshar as a planet (due to the Pangaea land mass following a Julia set pattern), perhaps he spent a little time working on Ashyn too, and left some investiture behind? Or perhaps I'm just reading too much into the wording of that WoB. . That can be a slippery slope, sometimes. As for the fish and the purelake, if there is something to them, it has to be because of either Honor, Odium, or Cultivation. I'm guessing its not Odium, since is tries to invest as little as possible. My guess is Cultivation, but I don't really have any reasoning to back that up. Any thoughts as to why Odium is called "The Broken One"?

There was a post on r/Cosmere recently by Pillar_of_S4lt. You can find it here. Essentially, they were asking about this death rattle from WoK. My question is a little different from theirs. From what I understand, the general consensus is that the last part of that death rattle is referring to Odium. But why? Why does he have that name? "Broken" gives the impression that he is shattered, but he is unshattered, and has invested far less into a world than most other shards. Is it his going around killing other shards that makes him "broken"? I doubt this because he is simply following his intent, like the other shards are. Has he gone mad, and that is why he is broken? I doubt this, since he seems to be executing a (so far) successful plot to shatter the other Rosharian shards. (I guess one could still be "mad" and intelligent and cunning.) Is this perhaps not a reference to Odium, but to the holder, Rayse? Could Rayse have been broken in some way before taking up the shard? Is that part of why Hoid wrote what he did about him in the letter? I would love to get some input from the Sanderson Savants as to how he fits this description. As for the post by Pillar_of_S4lt, I do think the wording of this death rattle is interesting. it gives the impression that there was some event that happened that separated the first half from the second half. I think the most likely explanation is that the "event" is Odium gaining dominance in Roshar. I believe this is a future event, since Cultivation is still unshattered, which would make this death rattle a prophecy like many of the others. Perhaps that is how book 5 ends, with Odium shattering Cultivation, and the desolation being successful. Books 6-10 would be humanity trying to clean up the mess and win the day. However, what if the arrival of Odium was the "event"? We know that Cultivation and Honor arrived at Roshar long before Odium did. What if there was a third shard who went with them, and together the 3 of them "ruled". This begs the question, where is that shard now? Maybe it up and left when Odium arrived, out of fear. Perhaps it left little bits of investiture on Roshar, such as the fish of the purelake (I haven't seen anything yet to explain how the fish work, and whether or not they are a manifestation of either Honor or Cultivation. If there is a WoB out there I haven't found yet, someone please let me know). I don't have the exact words with me, but in Arcanum Unbounded, Khriss alludes to the idea that there may be more going on in Roshar than meets the eye, some deeper system of magic. Do we know what that is? Could that be a third shard at work, or the leftover bits of one that left? Overall, I find the theory of a third original shard on Roshar to be a bit of a stretch, but I haven't found anything that outright disproves it. Thoughts, anyone?

I've never read this one before. Sound like an endgame villain to anyone else?

Dang! This is probably why I enjoy his books so much. Its obvious that he puts in so much time and effort into the details that make the universe cohesive.

As someone who just finished all the cosmere works, and thought I knew quite a bit about its lore, finding this thread has been a very humbling experience. I can't believe how far down the rabbit hole goes!

If I remember correctly, there was a WoB saying that all 10 of the heralds appeared in the first book in one form or another. I haven't been able to find them all yet. Does anyone know who shows up where?

Right after I hit "submit", I realized it might be too much, and redundant to have the parent of 2 main characters be part of this group. However, I do think there is more we will learn about his parents. Things kaladin himself didn't know.

1- Kaladin will arrive in Hearthstone and save Roshone with absolutely no hesitation. He will have taken his most recent oath to heart. After saving hearthstone, his relationship with his Father, will be strained. One of his parents (haven't decided who yet) will end up being a member of that same group that Shallan's mother was a member of, and may even end up trying to kill Kaladin. 2- Jasnah will be kicking some Ghost blood butt. In this process, one of the Ghost Blood members will (intentionally) let something slip about Shallan being a member of their organization, to sow seeds of doubt in Jasnah's mind. She will wonder if Shallan's ward-ship could have been a carefully planned elaborate rouse to find out details about her research. This will be planted in her mind so well that Jasnah can't brush it off. She will covertly begin to investigate and find out that Shallan has indeed been meeting with the Nightbloods and is still working with them (against Shallan's will, unbeknownst to Jasnah). This will enrage Jasnah, and we may even see a battle between the two. It may take quite a bit of explaining and time before Jasnah begins to trust Shallan again. 3- Adolin will confess to the crime, but not until Ialai uses her sources to find out about it, and is about to use it to move against the Kholin family. Adolin's confession and subsequent banishment will dull the damage she can do, but she will still be a major antagonist to the Kholin's and their efforts throughout the book. In particular, Adolin will be hunted throughout the book by her assassins. I think we will see a battle between him and Liss. (prediction 3.5 - Ialai is pregnant, which only serves to fuel her thirst for vengeance against the Kholin family) 4- Shallan will see that the Ghostblood's intentions are not all evil, and will even agree with it to an extent. She will have a very difficult time explaining that to Jasnah (as a result of #2) 5- The stone shamans will, at the beginning of the book, break into Uritheru and quite soundly whoop trash and take back the honorblade. They in turn, towards the end of the book, have their trash whooped by Szeth and Nightblood (how the heck nightblood will be "equal to the task" against 8 honorblades, I don't know. I can't wait to read that confrontation, though!!!) 6- Dalinar will have gained the reluctant trust of most of the high princes after his visions have proven true, but tensions and riots back home will cause them to refuse helping him gather radiants. He and the other radiants will be on their own in their quest to catch 'em all, or will ignore that task for a while in order to bring stability to Alethkar. 7- Eshonai and the other Parshendi will find a couple more of the ancient forms, and from that new void bringers will appear. However, tensions between her and her sister will continue to escalate to the point where there will be a parshendi vs. parshendi conflict. The ones who escaped at the end of WoR will not be a part of this conflict. 8- the afore mentioned escaped parshendi will have found some way to not transform when the everstorm comes (or found a way to revert after being transformed). They will be secretly trying to gather parshmen as fast as they can and try to prevent (or revert) further transformations. They will discover another form on their own, not one of the Void forms.

How does this explain Autonomy? We learned from Arcanum Unbounded (or at least it was hinted at), that Autonomy likes to travel around and influence other systems, despite having invested enough to create a magic system on Taldain. Wouldn't that contain her to Taldain? Another theory, what if Rayse was killed after SA5, everyone celebrates, and then there is a small epilogue showing Autonomy picking up the shard and flying off to take on Harmony. That would set up the conflict for Mistborn Era 2, and satisfy both theories about who is threatening Harmony: Autonomy, due to the emphasis that Bleeder put on being "free", and Odium, due to the red eyes of the evil kandra. I kind of like the theory of the challenger being a double shard as well, since it makes Harmony being threatened far more terrifying. As for what that would do to the SA books, what if the first 5 books did follow the standard "kill the evil bad guy" trope that we saw in Mistborn Era 1, but that the means taken to achieve it are amoral and have obviously far reaching consequences. A kind of a mix of "Yay, we won!" and "holy crap, what the heck did we do?" type of ending to SA5. The consequences would come to fruition in SA6-SA10.