OneNastyChull

But if it's investiture it's still preservation/ruins power correct?Even if it's a minute piece of power? Are you stating that the reduction of this power source, by hermalurgy, only changes its expression? That no investiture/power is lost in the transfer?

Haven't thought too much about Endowment in relation to this but doesn't the investiture return after being used, it just takes a while? Like the atium that was burned by all the atium mistings will come back it's just supposed to take a long while. I thought Scandrial was going through some boom and bust cycles and they were at the end of a boom (Lord Ruler stating it had been a while since he had purged the noble houses) Really though I just need to reread. On Harmony getting more Ruin focused I'm actually a believer of this unless the theories on him producing Harmonium in large quantities are right and this is part of it. Still though my main point on hermalurgy is that I want to know whether the full amount of investiture (not the spiritual DNA part only) is being degraded by hermalurgy or if it's taking up all of that investiture.

Oh Ive always thought that Preservation grew weaker as more humans came to be. That his depreciation in power partly due to giving up more with each human that came to be. Which is why he grew so weak but very very slowly. Going to have to read both eras again.

I understand all of that. I feel like I'm not phrasing this properly. Humans on Scandrial are born with innate investiture. This investiture comes from Preservation > Ruin until Harmony existed and at this point most are assuming that the innate investiture is coming equally from the combined shards. This investiture is also the Spiritual DNA of the humans on Scandrial. This investiture can be absorbed/taken by a hermalurgic spike. This spike contains less spiritual DNA potential. But my question is does the investiture(not the DNA, but the raw investiture ) transfer fully or is there some loss of this raw investiture. If there is a loss where does it go? Or am I misinterpreting that Preservation gave up his actual power while creating humans. I thought that was the whole reason he was getting weaker.

The spike also steals the innate investiture does it not? I mean the investiture that all Scandrial were originally formed with. I thought I read a WoB (will look for it) that stated that it would be possible to spike someone and steal their powers but the person spiked could also survive. But they would then be the equivalent of a drab. What I'm asking is where does that investiture go that was taken by the spike.

So it doesn't take more innate investiture to be a Mistborn or to be a stronger misting? Sorry just trying to be clear about this because that seems illogical.

Another question where does this power go that's lost from Hermalurgy? Does it return to Harmony?

Ah I've forgotten this then. Couldn't be remember if it was actually said in era 2 or not. Only read those once and it's been a year practically since BoM. Going to have to reread them.

Mistborn Spoilers: So in Era 1 I know that Hermalurgy caused a loss in allomancy effect which could be reduced to a very minimum amount by spiking directly from the giver into the receiver but do we know if that loss of effect still exists in Era 2 now that Harmony holds both shards? Can't find anything in WoB about this specifically. Or is hermalurgy remaining a reduction magic system. Or does Hermalurgy work on allomancy this way just because allomancy is a positive magic system? From all that I can tell it doesn't reduce the neutral system in Scandrial outside of only being able to take one ferochemical ability, which if the giver only has one ferochemical ability it wouldn't be a reduction of the effect.

I disagree with the holder determining the intent otherwise Ati wouldn't of been Ruin, he would of changed it to Weathering or something less destructive. The nicest guy has no effect? Seems like the shards intent overrides the person not the other way around. Odium+Cultivation = Invasion, Envy, Malice Autonomy + Survival = Isolation, Perserverance Autonomy + Odium = Nihlism Cultivation + Honor = Tradition or Liberty (just saying this makes me want to play Civ 5) Odium + Survival = Expellation, Genocide, Displacement Ambition + Devotion = Obsession (I think this one might be the best one I thought of) Survival + Cultivation = Evolution

I've been unable to find anything outside of that post by pagerunner which someone also linked to another Q&A I asked. Planning on asking him myself if he comes to Austin. Could be a combination of Alkali Metals and maybe alkali earth metals but that would be one unstable atom, can't even imagine the bonds that would exist. Would say Alkali Metals and halogens but they aren't all in pairs, just the three sets of shards that we know of while all the others seem to repeal each other or at least have no natural draw. Man it would be really interesting if Odium is a reflection of the most reactive Alkali earth metal and that's why he is seeking out so many others! Probably looking to deeply at this and it was simply inspiration only and doesn't mean more.

Whoa ok so a couple questions these last replies made me think of: You said Spook's soul, are you implying that Spook is still alive? Or although Harmony reworked the humans (which Spook was definitely reworked via receiving full mistborn powers) that he didn't receive the added ruin adjustment? Btw I'm a little opposed to the idea that Harmony gave the humans equal amounts of Ruin and Preservation. Otherwise wouldn't personalities or at least goals change? It doesn't seem like the humans are different fundamentally (at least in that regard; I realize they are different physically in regards to no longer needing resistance to ash) and instead seem overall the same. Or do you believe they are exhibiting more of Ruins side? And if so how? Personally through the growth of civilization they seem anything but stagnant which is what I think they would be if they had equal amounts. Or do you believe that the amount of investiture in the humans regardless of how much of either doesn't actually affect them on a personality level. From what lack of Breath does to drabs in WB I do believe that investiture affects personality. Expelling elemental Harmonium does seem like an amazing way to rid of the added effect of the atium that was burned by the atium mistings but why would it be needed to be expelled at all at this point (and by this point I mean by the end of BoM) if Harmony has already ridden itself of the added atium unless he is also losing Preservation investiture somehow. Or is Allomancy pure Preservation? (For some reason I've always thought it was also Ruin but now I feel unconfident about that)

Hey thanks crucible. That thread actually makes a lot of sense anoubt where the extra Ruin goes but now I wonder how many atoms, but more importantly electrons, of invested Preservation are in each human. I wonder if it's like the trace elements and salts in our body that help as the activators for a lot of proteins and/or catalysts reactions or if instead if it's of a "soul" nature.

*Mistborn spoilers* So with Harmony now containing all the investiture in Scandrial and giving up investiture to create humans, does a massive population increase reduce his powers of Preservation and make him more likely to lean towards Ruin? Given that he is retaining Ruin.

Anyone had the idea that the person hearing the screaming is the one bonded to them that keeps killing the spren? If the bond allows you to summon them and summoning them brings them to life while unsummoning the sword kills them then technically the person bonded to a dead shardblade is killing that spren again and again. But to hear the spren maybe the dead shardblade has to come into contact with someone who has a developed Nahal bond. Renerarin would then hear the dead blade once he had progressed far enough and this would allow Kaladin to not hear it (while last clapping) while Relis would (because Relis was bonded and Kal wasn't) while Kaladin was touching it with his flesh. If I'm correct then you would need to advance to the 2nd oath to give this effect because Dalinar doesn't hear it till then. (I don't think he even hears it he is just distressed by the blade when The Stormfather un bonds him. Although I'm not sure that was the stormfather that unbonded him but Dalinars bond smith powers (whole other discussion). Actually doesn't Dalinar feel something off about his blade towards the end of WoR without having yet said the 2nd oath?