Luck Spren

That's not Navani's initial motivation right after Raboniel returns from the well. Doesn't seem to me like she was even considering the explosion topic on this particular segment. Chapter 76 - Harmony: "Navani considered it, though storms, she knew she shouldn't have. It was another trick - another catalyst added to the system to push the reaction forward. Yet Navani couldn't lie to herself. She did want to know. As always, questions teased her. Questions were disorder awaiting organization. The more you understood, the more the world aligned. The more the chaos made sense, as all things should." I must disagree with you that that was the best plan. Not only because it could backfire very hard, but also because it looks like an incredible stretch ,and hardly believable that Navani would virtually single handedly get the upper hand on Rabobniel after being so easily manipulated by her. Of course that, in the end, all ended up working out fer her to fit the plot, but it's simply not credible for me that Navani would ever think that she could out-think a several thousand year old "immortal" scholar. I don't think that Navani is stupid because I didn't believe that the character I was reading was Navani, at all. Which is why it was so immersion breaking for me. Also, like someone already stated, I never felt like Navani was a truly a scholar at all in the previous books. Not because she lacks intelligence, but because she has much more of an active role financing and directing projects, not actually developing them. But that's besides the point here. Chapter 76 - Harmony: "Navani said. 'I think it is time for me to accept your initial offer and start carrying water.' " Quite literally carry water. Which would actually be an insane contrast for her as a character. It would be nice to see how her character would develop if she was put doing the job of a parshman. They do not have to work together, at all. Navani is a hostage. If Raboniel really wanted any sort of information that she suspected that Navani already knew, she could easily have threatened her, her scholars or the humans in the tower. And yes, I know that Raboniel believes in keeping friendly terms in order to exploit Navani as much as possible, which is of course believable because Raboniel is in charge. Absolutely not buying the "greater good" argument, particularly after Navani was so easily outplayed by Raboniel. As a reader, I am not inclined to believe any of Raboniel's intentions simply because she is, quite literally, a master schemer. She killed, captured, kidnapped and manipulated her way through the tower, which Navani seems to forget. (On a side-note: It is not uncommon for Brandon Sanderson to "deceive" the reader with regards to certain character's actions/motivations) I don't want to repeat myself, (which I already did multiple times, so I'm sorry for that). But I genuinely believe that Navani choosing to carry water over continuing her research, while being held hostage, was the only realistic outcome for me. The Navani I thought I knew, would think that uncovering anything too dangerous that could harm the fused would get her immediately killed by Raboniel. That's why she would never do anything to help her.

I, like pretty much every one else I've spoken to, loved Raboniel as a character. But I think that the Raboniel - Navani plot was the single worse moment in the entire series for me which is why can't understand why people are calling it brilliant. It completely broke my immersion for the first time ever in the series. This of course wasn't because of Raboniel. Navani is indeed trying to out-think Raboniel and she fails, in the beginning at least. This comes at a great cost. The Sibling is only one gemstone away of being corrupted and Navani still helps Raboniel uncover the secrets of mixing different types of light, while being held hostage in a situation that can result in the loss of the war, should the Fused claim the Tower. I know that Raboniel probably already knew, but was't the sound component of the process supposedly a Thaylenah trade secret? Yet she freely goes through everything with her and manages to uncover a tremendous scientific breakthrough in front of her while singing like they're friends. How am I supposed to believe that this is Navani? (This happened in chapter 76 for those wondering) Remember Teofil and his soldiers? Who bravely sacrificed themselves in order to get a chance to save the tower from falling? And Kaladin who might well be dead somewhere? All the Radiants? It seemed to me like they were all worthless and secondary to Navani's curiosity. I also think that it's incredibly foolish and not believable for Navani to ever trust Raboniel, even if Raboniel was genuine about her goals. I get it that the author needs a plot device in order to expose the reader to the new light concepts and technologies but I think that Navani's character suffered immensely because of it. If she's a master schemer that has lived for millennia, how can we , the readers, honestly believe her true intentions? I couldn't believe my eyes, that the strong intelligent and mature Navani character that we got to know over the years was freely helping her uncover a way to mix Voidlight and Stormlight. I agree that Raboniel was amazing. This is just my opinion and I'm definitely projecting, but not at you of course. Just something I wanted to get out. Edit: Grammar

Me too. I actually thought she was going to murder Pattern at some point or another when she found out that he was spying on her. In Oathbringer I didn't quite get what was going on in her head and I disliked her for that. At some points, It honestly felt like she was having a fit. In Rhythm of War, her mental illness is much more established and it fits the story better because of the plot, I believe.

I agree with most of what you said, but this was easily the worst part of the entire book for me. Not the Bondsmith part, but the fact that Navani is actively helping Raboniel with her research after what happened with the Sibling's gemstone in the well. I couldn't believe that a character that I've learned to love was actually singing with the enemy while being held hostage. Full Stockholm syndrome.

This is amazing @Otto Didact I think I'll be using this map from now on!

@Ammanas @bdoble97 I honestly have no idea on what to expect about the Nightwatcher but now that you mentioned it might look like a spider, I can't "unthink" it. PS: I haven't read Edgedancer, so I'm probably missing on a few things.

Upvoted!

Just came across this and I'm sorry if this was already mentioned or it's just a misunderstanding of mine. Chapter 66 - Page 903 Hardback American Version After Skar and Teft are treated by Kaladin this passage reads: Can some one else please confirm this? The injured man should be Skar instead of Moash right? Edit: @LURKSPREN has confirmed this already! 2nd Edit: @The One Who Connects Thank you for pointing that out.

I don't want to "spoil" you, because this is pretty much speculation (and don't quote me on that), but I think that there's a general consensus here (With Words of Brandon on this topic) that Andolin will awaken his own Shardblade and bond with its Spren. I even think that some people are trying to figure out which Spren exactly. Regarding Syl, I didn't even assume that when I was reading but it's a very plausible assumption.

What do you mean by a broken oath? The 1st oath? With that I cannot disagree, but the rest of them are all different across all Radiants. It is heavily implied that some Radiants (read Radiants here as Surgebinders) committed murder and started wars. Nohadon even shows his sadness regarding the fact that the "only" Spren that held his values were Honorspren. Shallan, as you might have read, has a dark past as well. By 2nd and 3rd oaths do you mean: "Strength before weakness" and "Journey before destination"? Because if not, I'm assuming you're saying that Andolin will become WindRunner?

Just a Joke! Seriously now! For the small amount of time I've spent here, you come out as a really cool guy I'm sure we will have other disagreements in the Future but that's Ok! I welcome those. I'm sure we will have even more things we agree on. Like you said, from what I've seen this is a really nice place to have a conversation. (whether it's about the Cosmere or not). PS: I just can't wait for Edgedancer (which I haven't read yet, I'm getting the stand-alone) and Oathbringer to come out

I'm never offended by what you say You're extremely articulate and polite. I just think that those are really bold claims that don't resonate with me. And by "resonate", I'm not referring to my feelings, but to philosophical works I've read and also, as you might have guessed, my belief in God. My belief in God has an obvious influence on my views on morality. I just didn't want to extrapolate those views to this thread. I didn't want to polarize the topic. I'm knew to the Shard and sometimes my personality compels me to respond to claims I BELIEVE are not true. I AM NOT attempting to be hostile and I'm sorry if I gave away that impression.

I fail to see how claiming that "Good and evil are societal constructs" is on topic. You can't prove that.

Killing and murder are two fundamentally different things. But I think this topic has completely lost his track. We're almost discussing philosophy at this point and I'm reading extremely bold claims with which I disagree.

That's what we're told from Kalak's perspective. I'm not saying that the torture part isn't true, but I'm 100% sure that a lot more stuff went down leading to that. Remember that we only see 2 Heralds in that scene.