Ace of Hearts
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Thanks for the feedback @Yuliya @ginger_reckoning! Glad to hear the chapters read somewhat well and I'll give the scene with C another look-at with your feedback in mind to see if the proper stuff is coming across.
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Excited to dig into this next chapter!
Overall: I was pretty engaged throughout and I like the magic worldbuilding set up here. In general I think I feel more connected to Z than our protag (whose name I can’t remember because of WRS). That being said unless Z is a secondary protagonist I’m not sure what this does for the larger story, and I’m looking for something more distinct about K right off the bat. Right now he feels like a standard suspicious person who ends up being an antagonist and even if that doesn’t end up being the case I feel like I need to see more of what his real deal is.
Another note: The pain that I think came from the oaths feels a bit glossed over. Even if it’s explained in book one it’s probably good to put a reminder as to why this is necessary / if it really is the best way
As I go:
Pg 1. I don’t fully understand what’s happening (I assume the first book has more context), but I like the urgency here
Pg 2. Interesting limitation to dispelling fire
Pg 3. I feel like I need to know why I is doing this to Z if it’s not malicious
Pg 4-5. I like the hint of using healing magic to kill but I think this can be cut down a bit
Pg 6. K’s visual description in a magical world gives me evil necromancer vibes (not a good or bad thing necessarily just a thought)
Pg 7. Okayyy why is K backstory dumping on Z? Even if it ends up being in character it feels like the story is taking an excuse to give us exposition about him
Pg 8. Hmm K really wanting to go into the library seems like a bad sign! (bad for the characters not in terms of writing)
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Looking forward to digging into the chapter!
Overall: The good news is that I get a pretty good idea of what M’s deal is and I feel pretty engaged with him. Overall, though, I think this should either be pushed back to after M is more relevant or cut if that can’t quite work. Since M isn’t connected to the main plot as much currently (unless I’m forgetting something big), it’s hard to feel like this gives me a lot more insight into the story.
I mention this in LBLs too but I’d have another look at teenage C’s characterization if you do keep this chapter. It’s easy for the cloistered princess who wants to be pretty and go out and spend time with boys to come across as samey and undeveloped which doesn’t seem like what this story wants.
As I go:
Pg 1. Are we supposed to know what C is mad at?
Pg 2. M hating C seems like it’s a key dynamic for M at least, but I’m not sure what the significance of it is. What’s the emotional hook here?
Pg 4. I know many (especially literary) stories have PoV jump around within a scene, but it’s not doing it for me here. To my knowledge the standard for 3rd person SFF is to pick one character to be the PoV for each scene.
Pg 5-6. M’s backstory interests me more than C’s right now
Pg 7. Hmm this kind of thing isn’t bad in a vacuum but so much SFF does the “teenage girl who’s into boys but is told to stay away from them and it’s a whole thing” deal poorly that I’m a bit on guard. I wonder if there’s a more character-specific way to get across a similar dynamic
Pg 9-10. Similar comment as above with the wanting to be pretty thing. Not that it can’t be done but I’m going to be skeptical when a teenage girl’s thing revolves around that without delving into the deeper insecurities and social messaging there
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6 hours ago, Yuliya said:
N is seventeen and B is twenty-two (introduced in chapters two and three, respectively). Do you think the age gap is too large?
For a fantasy world it's not egregious but it is large enough to be a bit uncomfortable to me and probably some others (especially since it is a romantic interest thing and not a political marriage type thing where large age differences might be more expected). If the story doesn't lose anything big by having them be closer in age (like 18 and 20), I'd recommend it. Many authors do get away with bigger age differences but I just don't see the benefit.
Also Idk if I missed N's age being specified before but she did read as younger than 17 to me based on the way other character were treating her.
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Excited to see where the story goes!
Overall: The good news is that overall this chapter reads really smooth, and I think is my favorite so far from a pure writing perspective. I also like that B is getting pushed in ways that are recognizable to us—it’s easy to see how training is wearing him out moreso than what the fantasy creatures are doing to him. My main suggestion here is to think about how this chapter fits into B’s larger arc. B’s trying to survive here, which is good but we need a feeling of what he’s surviving for and that he’s making progress towards (or away from) his goals.
Another comment is that I don’t like the way N is handled in this chapter. R described her as being a kid, right? And even if she’s an older teenager we need to know that B is too for him liking her not to be creepy. Plus even with all of that, the fact that she’s being used to drag B into trouble for liking her (or at least B thinks that’s happening) makes her feel more like a plot device than a real character.
As I go:
Pg 1. I’m trying to remember if K was introduced before and what his relationship with B is. Doesn’t help that I have an awful memory for names
Pg 2. Small thing but I’m surprised that heavy weight is looked down upon here. I kinda pictured this as a society where it’s hard to get by where weight would be a symbol of stability
Pg 3. The dialogue here feels smoother than before—maybe because it’s related to B’s current problems
Pg 7. Isn’t N like a teenager? Seems kinda creepy for K to be talking about her that way if he and B are substantially older (which I’m assuming they are)
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Additional warning for abusive relationships (will be kind of a thing from here on out so I won't mark this every chapter)Hi everyone,Thanks for all of your feedback so far!
I have a couple specific questions for this sub:
1. How does the slower pace of the first chapter read? Is it good to get some downtime and relationship-building for N and W or does it seem to drag with no point?2. How does C come across in the second chapter? Abusive relationships are a difficult topic to tackle and I want to make sure it comes across the right way.Besides that, any and all feedback is appreciated, especially prescriptive suggestions!0 -
I'll take a slot for this Monday if there's room, please! Though if we end up being full I don't mind sitting a week out.
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Thanks for the feedback, everyone! It sounds like there needs to be more tying things together here for these chapters to really work, so I'll have to think about if I want to explore these dynamics later in the story or have W figure out more upfront.
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Excited to get into the story!
Overall: This has the structure of a really solid start to a story, and what I think I need is a bit more context about the stakes, the world, and the characters. Throughout the chapter I wasn’t sure who was at the most risk since it seemed to flipflop a bit, and I think the ending of the chapter is stronger if we have a better idea of what the government does to people with magical powers.
Another comment is that I tend to be pretty skeptical going into YA dystopian stories, and I think a lot of people are the same after the post-Hunger-Games influx of samey-feeling dystopian YA fiction that didn’t really offer a lot of societal insight. Which is not to say that the world here is bad by any means, but I’ll really have to be convinced that it’s interesting to care. Is there a specific angle you’re trying to take on the oppressive dystopian government?
As I go:
Pg 1. Is our PoV character a student? Saying “students” instead of “other students” makes them sound like not a student
Pg 2. The magic here has me intrigued
Pg 3-4. I think what we’re missing is specifics on the threat/stakes here. I get that our protag has magic that they don’t want people to know about and that there’s an authoritarian government with control over the school system, but what happens if they find out about the magic? Surely our protag has some idea
Pg 6. The fact that our protag is an outsider to the rules makes me wonder why. Because of their socioeconomic class? Because of their powers?
Pg 8. Wait when did this just become K’s problem? Didn’t they say L could be in trouble too?
Pg 9. K’s emotional response here feels a bit detached, though I do like the dynamic of them being horrified at the idea of taking a prestigious government position.
Pg 11. I like that this is moving the plot along but I need more context to be convinced that the parents believe the resistance is safer than the government
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Looking forward to seeing how the story develops!
Overall: There are lots of good hints and tidbits in here that I think need to be tied together into something more cohesive. Mostly, I’m wondering what the tablets are, why B wants them so badly, how he lost them in the first place, and what R’s main goal through all of this is. Once I get a feeling for the stakes I think the details of the story will slot into place more easily for me.
As I go:
Pg 1-2. I like that we get to see more of R’s personal connections and what I think we need is a more specific motivation for his actions
Pg 3-5. Similar thoughts. The disability is interesting and I want to see these character dynamics (not necessarily the disability itself) connect to what’s happening on a larger story scale
Pg 6-8. Can’t judge too much as a resident writer of weird kids who don’t talk like kids but N does not sound like a kid/young teen that I think she’s supposed to be. Even if the story doesn’t use casual language in general I think it needs to find a way to differentiate N’s speech from a formal adult’s.
Pg 9-11. Hard for me to be invested in a dream sequence when I know that nothing’s “real.” I can tell that the memories here are important but I think there are better and more succinct ways to explore them than in dreams. Ideally the events that remind B of L are also part of the main plot instead of side exposition.
Pg 12-13. Took me a while to get a feeling for the scene
Pg 15. We get the practical reason B wants to come along, but what about the personal reason?
Pg 17. The politics here are interesting to me and I like that the story’s making an attempt to tie them into character relations and plot but I need more context for it to really hit home. Mostly, what does this have to do with the tablets?
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I totally feel you on subbing being nerve-wracking! I legit lost a lot of sleep worrying about my first few submissions. It’s good that you like where the chapter’s ended up, since in my experience it makes criticism sting less when you still believe in the piece.
Overall: Let’s start with the good. I liked a lot of the imagery here, especially during the start, and by the end of the chapter I have a pretty good understanding of what M and C’s goals are. On a more constructive note, it doesn’t feel like there’s motion in most of the chapter despite the action because it takes us so long for C to do something proactive. Investigating dead king father is a great motivation to work off, but the assassination itself didn’t do as much for me since I wasn’t connected to character motivations. And as mentioned at the end, if C’s going to focus on investigating I need to know more about her background in that specifically. Her general background is only interesting to me so long as it connects to the plot (for example, I’d care more about her feelings towards her siblings if they connected to the investigation or her investigating skills).
Another general comment is that I think a lot of the exposition here could be cut down. The thoughts in M’s PoV are better since knowing about the political setup directly informs his plan, but a lot of the explanations we get while following C feel unnecessary right now.
As I go:
Pg 1-2. I like the imagery we get here but my understanding is that this sort of panorama introduction is harder to sell readers on than it was back when something like Wheel of Time was written. Most stories I see nowadays place us in scene immediately.
Pg 3. I think we need a hook to get us going, I can see that the point is the dream shows what she’s lost but it’s not having a large impact since I can’t connect it to the larger story.
Pg 4-5. Right now it feels like events are happening without a clear narrative path
Pg 6-7. We have some plot events like I was hoping for, and my comment now is that we need a bit more on the characters for this to have an impact.
Pg 8-9. Careful of the expository dialogue here
Pg 10. I’m already liking M’s PoV more since he’s thinking how to be proactive. Not sure if he actually had a role in this or not, but I also don’t feel like I need to know now
Pg 12-13. I don’t think showing C be comforted by L is what we need right now. What is C’s role in the story? M has his plans and ambitions, what about C?
Pg 14. Conducting an investigation is a good start to her plotline, and I need a lot more on this. Is she trained to be an investigator? What challenges does she expect to face? How is she going to start the investigation?
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All right time to jump in!
Overall: There were lots of interesting tidbits in here, and I appreciated getting a better feel for the magic and political context of the setting, but I’m not sure what happens here outside of G finding out about the protag. I like the tension of when he confronts the M who’s impersonating his student, but I think it has to lead somewhere in the future for me to feel like it’s justified. I will say that I like G’s characterization as someone who furthers oppression for pragmatic reasons rather than raging vitriol. I think the first few pages and pages 8-14 can be cut down by quite a bit, and I also feel like we’re missing a sense of direction at the end of the chapter. If the story wants G to feel like a threat we need to feel like he has a plan and is actively backing the protag in a corner rather than just knowing about him.
As I go:
Pg 1-2. Not sure what dynamics to be focusing on especially in a new PoV, so feels a bit scattered
Pg 5-6. This is where the stakes start to get real for me and I’m more engaged
Pg 8-9. I’m interested by some of the stuff here like the prophecy, but with the initial conflict resolved I’m not quite as engaged. I think my issue might be that while what’s here is interesting enough on its own, I’m not sure how it connects to the larger story
Pg 11. He’s not here for H; do we know why he is here? I’m not sure if I missed it or if it isn’t there
Pg 13. I think I need a bit more on why G cares so much about the issue. Are there pieces I should be putting together?
Pg 15. I’m assuming this biomage is our protag and if the main point of the chapter is that G finds out about him I’m not sure it needs to take this long to reach that point
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Hope everyone's doing well!I'm interested to hear people's suggestions for this sub since I keep waffling on how important some of the dynamics here are for the story. Any and all feedback welcome as usual, and prescriptive suggestions are especially appreciated!1
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I'll take a slot for next week, please!
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On 1/30/2023 at 9:41 PM, Silk said:
I’m still very much feeling @kais’s comment from last time that the chapter is moving both too fast and too slow. We’re getting a bun ch of information and a magical solution, but W doesn’t really have to try for either and I don’t have enough to contextualize all the information we’re getting.
This is good to know. It's not too hard to force W to work a bit harder to get this info so I could try that.
On 1/31/2023 at 0:02 AM, Silk said:Okay. I suspect that you and I are similarly iterative thinkers. So I'm going to throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and you can decide if any of it should stick. Grain of salt and all that because I don't actually know the shape of your story
- I think W needs to make another try for the flowers at the pond by herself before going to N. Maybe she gets there and they're all dead, maybe they've deliberately been removed, maybe somebody stops her. (Maybe she runs into B because B has been following N there?) But it seems like there should be another try/fail cycle in there. Depending on pacing, maybe she can even get more flowers in a first run and realize that she is depopulating the flowers at the pond and will need another solution.
- Thinking about it more, I actually feel like W's decision to go back to N for help could be made more of. She has lots of places to run into him and two people warning her away from him, plus her own complicated feelings about him. There might be room to build in some more of her actively avoiding him before she decides to go back to him.
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I mentioned the scene with W and G also feels like it's missing a try/fail cycle. If I were W, I would have a ton of questions about this stuff. What happens if W tries and fails to get more information out of G, or G lets one crucial piece of information slip? This scene needs to feel like more than W's cousin materializing and handing her a MacGuffin.
- Also, if there is any danger associated with the potion - because of what it does or where it came from or what have you - this would be a great time for G to let something like that slip.
- To build on my comment about not just being handed a MacGuffin - consider what happens if W has to wrestle with herself before using it - because she doesn't know how/it might be dangerous/etc. Maybe she needs to take a scene to have a sudden realization or act out of desperation.
- Possibly: I wonder if W getting the flowers from N and getting the potion from G are happening in the wrong order. My first instinct is to say reverse them. But this requires juggling things a lot for N to stay a nice guy who isn't pushing any boundaries, maybe more than is manageable, so maybe not.
Obviously pretty much any of that involves extending the timeline of what's already happened so you would probably need to be making some progress towards the intrigue/mystery aspect as well, so it doesn't feel like we're stalled. But I don't think that would be a bad thing!
Thanks, this is super helpful, especially because I'm learning my brain gets overwhelmed by feedback but interprets suggestions like these as fun possibilities to explore. I like the idea about W going for the flowers at the pond first, and I'll definitely highlight the potion not being the perfect solution.
On 1/31/2023 at 0:12 AM, Yuliya said:- It is fun to watch the story unfold, and I feel attached to W at this point. I am curious about where you will take the traditional fairy lore as the story goes on.
- I like that the next meeting with N happens so soon, though considering that the flowers grow at the pond, it seems weird she needed his help that much (maybe mention that they picked all the available flowers last time?)
- I felt a bit underwhelmed at the meeting with Grace (yes, she wears a black jacket now, but considering that she is offering a magic vial, I was hoping for something weirder to appear in manners, look, or conversation)
- Also, I feel like I was more flustered by the magic while sitting and reading at home than W was going to another world. I think some surprise or discomfort on her part could add to the tension
- In general, it often feels like things just happen too easily for W. She is mostly reactive to the things going on around, and I think she could benefit from some obstacles to overcome, instead of placidly receiving flowers, help to pick flowers, and the vial from others.
A lot of these are similar to other comments, and I agree. I'm planning on having W work more to get information and not jump to asking N for flowers so quickly.
On 1/31/2023 at 6:18 PM, ginger_reckoning said:It is interesting to me that this chapter has happened this early in the story. Specifically, it seems like W is getting the exact solution for her problems, so to me this says that there will be some major complications going forward that make her plan of using the flowers to cure her mother not work. Like the others were saying and like I mentioned before, this just seems like a scene from the middle of the story, not near the beginning. It moves fast, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I do wish we could establish the characters a little better.
I do want to keep the fast pacing but this hits on a point that people seem to unanimously agree that information is dumped on us really quickly. Spreading it out and having W work for it a bit more will hopefully fix that issue.
On 1/31/2023 at 6:18 PM, ginger_reckoning said:Also, I'm not sure about having N's POV here. Don't get me wrong, I like having lots of POV's in my own work and so I fall into this a lot as well, but I think I would rather have W's reaction to going to another world for the first time, and then maybe have N's POV a little later.
This is an interesting point. The draft before this I think it was in W's PoV and at least conceptually I like it better in N's since there's a lot more insight into what's actually going on. Still, I can definitely try to bring out more of W's reactions in N's PoV (which he's focusing heavily on) or switch back to W's PoV if I can't get it to work in N's.
On 1/31/2023 at 6:18 PM, ginger_reckoning said:So B was just standing in the woods, waiting for him to arrive? Also, has B been mentioned before? She doesn't get a description here, but from what she talks about, I imagine her as a businessperson.
Thanks for highlighting this haha. She hasn't been mentioned and importantly while she holds herself as a businessperson, she's a teenager who goes to the same school as W and N. Upcoming scenes feel a *lot* more awkward if she's read as an adult so I'll need to nip that in the bud.
20 hours ago, Mandamon said:Similar thoughts to the others on this one. It's unfolding a lot faster than the last version, so that might be what we're all feeling. If it's going full magical that quickly, that's fine, but I do agree more reaction from W will help that feeling. Right now we've got a lot of new characters and facts thrown at us over two chapters. If they're going back to the village, or dealing with it in some way in the next few chapters, I think this can work. But if we're getting hints now, and then most of the book will be about W/N's relationship, the revelations might need to be scaled back.
This is helpful to hear! It does sound like after hearing feedback in the first draft that people wanted more magical stuff earlier on, I overcorrected a bit. I think scaling back a bit and having W work to get the information more should patch up these issues.
Thanks for the feedback, everyone!
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6 minutes ago, Yuliya said:
Thanks for reading! Any advice on how to do that? I am not sure I fully understand the comment
I'd suggest either dropping the exposition about them entirely/save it future chapters or creating a situation in which B's dislike for R interferes with the mission (or their other goals) so we have a reason to care about it
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Nice to get to read some of your work! Looking forward to digging in
Overall:
For someone new to writing, this reads rather well overall. Certainly better than my early attempts at fantasy writing. For me the biggest missing piece is character motivation. Why is B part of this group, what are they trying to steal, and why? I need to have a feeling for what a protagonist’s goals and values are to find them compelling.
As I go:
Pg 1-2. This does a good job of setting up the heist and the danger, and I think I need to know more about this heist. What are they trying to steal and why?
Pg 3-4. I can tell the T are important, I don’t get a good feel for what kind of creature they are. Nest makes me think some sort of birdlike or insect thing
Pg 5-6. I think that for the dynamic between B and R to be compelling to me it has to be woven into the current plot/conflict instead of being given to us in exposition
Pg 8-9. Descriptions of the T are good, especially the face/eyes. It might be better to not mention them as much before now so that we don’t have to wonder what they look like from page 1.
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Thanks for the feedback so far! I'll try to respond later in more detail but it seems like the biggest thing that I need to highlight upfront is that the medicine isn't the silver bullet solution to her mom's illness, which gets touched on more later.
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Excited to dig into this!
Overall: I feel like the encounter with S is where the story really gets rolling, and the scenes before about research don’t have much of an impact without knowing the connection between the shadowy organization and magical heritage. I do think we need a bit more from the encounter with S, either more information or R having a plan to figure out more, since right now it feels like there’s not a lot of forward motion carrying us into the next chapter. And somewhat relatedly, R feels fairly passive here, so there’s an opportunity to get her more involved right off the bat.
As I go:
Pg 2-3. I get that this is important setting info but with no plot hook I can see I’m not fully latched onto it
Pg 5. For a story with pretty simple language, the top half of the page feels bogged down by legal jargon. Also, I can see that the story is trying to set up a mystery but the emotional hook is still missing for me
Pg 9. The end feels like it could be a plot hook, and if it is I want to see this much sooner. Could even start the novel off with it
Pg 10-11. There’s a lot of description here and which makes it hard for me to pick out the important bits and get a real feeling of the scene
Pg 12. Are these wolves important for the world/plot? Right now it feels like an excuse to have R get saved
Pg 14-15. This feels like the first real bit of the larger plot we get. Since the wolves are important it might be good to highlight that when we first see them, that they act different from normal wolves
Pg 17. If I were R I’d be more concerned about what they think the threat that requires protection is. Does the library know that this shadowy organization is after R?
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Nice to get to read more of this!
Overall:
I was fairly engaged reading through, especially getting a better feel for the society, but I’m not sure if it does enough for the plot or the characters. What’s the real arc here? We get good worldbuilding, but the big points introduced—A’s instincts and saving the man from the humans trying to lynch him—don’t have clear connections to larger plot arcs right now.
As I go:
Pg 1. Small thing but I feel like a lot of times when someone says “the homeless” they’re being judgmental which doesn’t seem like A’s opinion here
Pg 2-3. It’s good to get a bit of a picture about the larger world. While the plot’s not moving I’m still fairly engaged here
Pg 6-7. This is about where I feel the chapter is lagging a bit. I think a feeling that something’s wrong is too vague for me to be invested in it
Pg 9. Different appearance but I’m getting Klan vibes from the attackers
Pg 11. I think we need to know not only that A won’t kill, but what he is going to do. Is his plan to leave them here? Try to make sure they can’t keep terrorizing people somehow?
Pg 12-13. I’m not getting a strong read on the man A rescued. It could help to focus on what about him stands out.
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Hi everyone,Thanks for your comments last week. I'm here with the next couple of chapters of Bond of Wildflowers, with any and all feedback appreciated. In particular, I actually find prescriptive advice to be very helpful so any suggestions on what you would do with the story are greatly appreciated.Thanks!
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I'd like a spot for this upcoming week, please!
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5 hours ago, Cathy Lim said:
So I guess I have a question- Was there anything good about chapter one? Anything that i should actually keep?
Thanks!
Personally, I think a viable option is to cut all of it, and I think that another viable option is to keep certain events (such as a shortened version of the dream sequence) and integrated into the plot hook. So ultimately I think it depends on what--if anything--here is important for getting the plot moving, and combining that with the plot motion we're missing. Without knowing the broader story strokes, I'm not sure I can say definitively one way or the other.
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Welcome! I’m excited to get into this!
Overall:
The good news is that the flow of the story is smooth and easy to follow. However, I can’t quite say I was hooked by this opening. I want to advocate for more plot action with a real inciting incident, but I also get the feeling that the story is aiming to be more slice of life and charming/meandering like a Ghibli movie. If that’s the case, we need a stronger sense of atmosphere right off the bat. Though I’ll also say that regardless of atmosphere, more plot and conflict couldn’t hurt.
Also, to me this reads more like middle-grade than YA. How old are R and friends?
As I go:
Pg 3. I like the first sentence but the length of the following description fizzles the tension a bit
Pg 4. Dream sequences are notoriously hard to do because it’s tricky to establish what is “real” and has solid stakes. I think we need to focus on the few impressions that matter here, especially because this isn’t the first time R has seen her father in a dream
Pg 5-7. I’m wondering if it’s necessary to open with something so slice of life. I think we either need some plot here to start us off or a really strong atmosphere to draw us into charming daily life. To me the plot seems easier
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I'll take another slot for this Monday, please!