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robardin last won the day on November 16 2022
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notting the not on the pleasing of all
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I agree that was the PoNR from the POV of Moash internalizing it as such ("Kaladin. He'd tried to kill Kaladin. ... Storms. He should throw himself into the fire", he thinks to himself as he sits around in a daze with Graves and other Diagrammers fleeing the warcamps). And of course, that counts for more than anything else. But, I don't think that was actually as PoNR as he thought it was. Dalinar had done as bad, or worse, in his youth, that he looks back on with great regret, shame, or even horror. And if intent counted for anything, Moash (I believe truthfully) said he hadn't meant to punch Kaladin as hard as he did - he wasn't accustomed to the strength lent by Shardplate, nor used to dealing with a de-powered Kaladin. Basically what I'm saying is, the "alternate Moash" we saw in Renarin's vision, didn't have to be one that never pursued the plot against Elhokar, or even one that gave it up when Kaladin stressed that "we can't be this kind of men". I think that, had he found a way to do it, when he came out with Khen and the other singers who knew Kaladin at Kholinar, facing off against Skar and Drehy, finding Kaladin locked up in the battle and pleading for everyone to just. Stop. FIGHTING, ... if instead of pushing his way to the front to finish off a fallen Elhokar, he had instead pulled his squad of singers back and tried to stop everything, ... ...he maybe could still have left with Bridge Four and been pardoned. We'll never know, though, because that's not what happened.
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robardin started following Lord Ruler in the court partys , Moash's Point of No Return , Theory: Ba-Ado-Mishram's role and 5 others
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Without getting into yet another discussion/debate over Moash's various acts or decisions in Stormlight 1-4, I wanted to bring up something specific. When he is feeding Kaladin's depression in Hearthstone (after killing two bound and captive villagers Kaladin had grown up with, and then Roshone, in front of him), he is interrupted by Renarin's arrival, including a glowing light in which a filmy vision/version of himself is visible: standing tall in a Bridge Four coat, protecting people, eyes burning Windrunner blue as a Shardspear formed in his hand... This vision breaks through Odium's shielding him from "his pain", causing him to flee. So obviously, "in another life", Moash (like most of the rest of Bridge Four) would have first squired to Kaladin, then bonded an honorspren. At what point was that version of Moash rendered impossible? (Assuming it still impossible, after all he's done?) Had he been persuaded by Kaladin's speech about "come with me and we will get justice against the right man, Roshone" when he and Graves confronted a wounded Kaladin over an unconscious Elhokar at the end of WoR, and stood with him against Graves (another full Shardbearer), would that have still enabled Kaladin to find the Third Ideal? Or even, after physically attacking Kaladin, once Kaladin swore the Third Ideal, causing Graves to flee... Could Moash still have laid down his Shards then, begged Kal's forgiveness, and remained in Bridge Four and on the path to squiredom and bonding an honorspren? Instead of running off with Graves? As for Moash's betrayal of Bridge Four's duty - as he pointed out, Kaladin had done the same. And as for the personal betrayal in assaulting Kaladin, well, had he not gone further and further down that road, I think even that was not the final turning point. It's noteworthy that Kaladin did not tell Bridge Four of Moash's actions for some time afterward, and even still referred to him as "my friend" when punching Roshone in the face when he went to Hearthstone after the Everstorm, in Oathbringer. And as Rock said about Rlain, who named himself a traitor, "Ha! Is little problem. Can be fixed." I think the problem is that, as with Amaram, the man who cannot forgive himself for that betrayal... Is himself. Killing Elhokar in Kholinar, who was clearly allied with Kaladin, and while backed by a squad of singers, ... I think that may have been the PoNR.
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Well, say "Full Compounder" out loud. Now say it faster. And faster. And faster. Full Compounder. F'l C'mpounder. F'l'c'p'nder. ...Flounder?
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It's definitely a RAFO scenario, but the fact is, a Feruchemical chromiummind is the only Cosmere magic we've seen so far to explicitly work with Fortune. I have to say, the "motto" of the Stonewards, "I will be there when needed", sounds pretty similar to what literally moves Hoid, who said to Dalinar after the latter gave him food for thought on the nature of unity in Ch. 67 of Words of Radiance: I mean, on the face of it, how could a Stoneward promise to "be there when needed" if they weren't usually where they needed to be already, when needed?
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You touch on one interesting question we have no answer to: why is/was Feruchemy specifically linked with the Terrisfolk? Was it a case of Feruchemists being clannish from way back, or other some kind of Act of Shard (or Hoid) to trigger it? After all, before Rashek's Ascension and the first round of mistsnapping / lerasium beads causing Allomancy to arise more in the general population, Feruchemy was "even more common than Mistings" at the end of the Final Empire among the pre-Ascension Terrisfolk. Is it due to some extra Connection, along with other things, at the time of a person's conception? Could be... But, Connection to what?
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The only explanation for the term "Mistborn" in-world came from the scant history of those early years recorded Sazed's metalminds, that the earliest Allomancers appeared "with the mists" (the mistsnapping that began happening as the Well of Ascension drew close to filling, as described by Alendi's logbook, and as witnessed by Sazed even before Ruin was released). It's not a term that TLR created/promoted with the Steel Ministry, though they did readily use it. The term that appears to be Rashek's invention with his Ministry is "Allomancy", and a wielder of it an "Allomancer", as the Inquisition's mission is to seek out and brutally punish "crimes against Allomancy" as blasphemy (which is not limited to hunting down illegal half-bred skaa Allomancers, it also included punishing nobles who abuse it, like by using it to try to influence an obligator). For all we know, that word is derived from his having "allocated" the beads of lerasium to his original key followers! It does appear the origin of the powers with ingesting a bead of metal was successfully suppressed; I guess the original kings were told to say they were "given the divine power by The Lord Ruler, who is God Himself, and surpasses even us in might", as a way to kickstart the Steel Ministry as a true religion with tangible proof of real power.
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The only downside is, "Mistborn" is a term used in-world, and while "wrong" (Mistborn were not, in fact, "born" from the mists - if anything, some subset of Mistings were "mistsnapped" into existence), it's because they were all either TLR or part of his crew of ten (?) lerasium ingestors that emerged out of nowhere after "the mists receded" (aka the "Deepness was defeated") and oh yeah, the sun went red, the continents moved around, ash filled the sky, little stuff like that. As far as the people of that time could tell, they were indeed "born" from the mists, as if the mists disappeared as part of the reason all those things happened. (Which was not, in fact, untrue, but with A Lot More to That Story Than They Knew About.) And then later, the term carried over to describe their descendants with the same powerset. The ones that appeared after a few generations with only access to a single metal got a diminutive term. OTOH the term "Fullborn" is not used in-world on Scadrial, and is unlikely to be the term they would come up with in-world. The only context they have for such a thing is Rashek TLR. Even when wielding or referring to using the Bands, someone like Wax or Edwarn doesn't say "and you will be as a Fullborn", rather that they would be "like the Lord Ruler". It's also why they immediately assumed "The Sovereign" who Allik tells them created the Bands, and must have been someone who had "both powers for all sixteen metals in one person", must have been TLR who somehow survived or reincarnated in the South. They don't say "Wow, another Fullborn popped up down there?!". I have no problem using "Fullborn" on a fan message board, there's a lot of history/tradition of that here already that I'm not suggesting we throw out. But I also think it's fun to consider what a Kelsier, Khriss, or Harmony might come up with as a term for it.
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32Born??? That's a new one to me, LOL. Yeah, it's "taken", I would say, otherwise kind of perfect. My comment was that stacking multiple metals with both Metalborn powers and enabling Compounding, on shared metals, without Hemalurgy or some external device like the Bands, is something we've only seen achieved in Rashek. So maybe we may as well name it after him. Not quite "Ascension" but becoming a "Rasheki"? After all, when Vin and Elend started to see Inquisitors with new spikes for Feruchemy in HoA, they refer to them as like fighting "another Lord Ruler".
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OK, that's fair - "Mistborn" is the in-world term for the most powerful Allomancers, dating back to the original ten lerasium ingesters (plus TLR) who all appeared after the mists (the "Deepness") had receded, and the entire planet had suddenly and completely changed topologically and ecologically. At the same time, I think "Fullborn" is, despite its frequent use in this forum, a fan term and not canonical? Like, does the word ever occur in any published Cosmere work, including Khriss' Ars Arcana notes? It's a useful fan term, one I have used and will use for it, not saying it isn't, and I know there are WoBs where Brandon responds to and uses the term freely. Still, if it were up to me to coin a term for an OP mashup of a Mistborn and Feruchemist, it'd have been Mistferaku or something like that, LOL
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I would think that a Princess of Alethkar, sister to the King, departing Kharbranth after so long a residency, would be Big News. And thus, the direction and manner of her travel not so hard to find out?
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Yeah, that discussion should be taken to another thread. For the record - I am well aware that there were indeed multiple, long threads on that topic that erupted after the SA5 Prologue was read/documented in the Arcanum, I participated in at least one of them, and remain unmoved in my convictions!
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The very term "Fullborn" is questionable (where does it even come from?), as there has literally never been anbody BORN with both (full) Feruchemy and Allomancy (Mistborn). In all of Scadrian history, there has only ever been one way to be a full Feruchemist - to be born one, as an appropriately sDNA'ed Terris person. And, generally, only one way to be a Mistborn instead of a Misting, and that's to ingest a lerasium bead, or to be descended from someone who did. ...or to be Rashek, who was already a Feruchemist, and directly modified his Spiritweb with the power of Preservation while Ascended, to stack on Allomancy beyond the power level of even a lerasium Mistborn. Prior to this "direct injection of Preservation's power", Allomancy occurred rarely but naturally in the Scadrian population, or by mistsnapping in two periods separated by 1024 years, but only as Mistings (for one metal). By contrast, until the Catacendre and the elimination of all living Feruchemists (through Ruin's harvesting, the death of Tindwyl, and the Ascension of Sazed), all Feruchemists were "full" Feruchemists. You were either one, or were not. Ferrings and Twinborn (with just one metal's Feruchemy) exist post-Catacendre specifically due to the admixture of the genes for Feruchemy and Allomancy. There aren't even any "natural born Mistborn" on Scadrial in Era 2, since the passing of Spook/Lestibournes, was also "twiddled" by divine intervention (Harmony) to upgrade from Tineye to becoming the Lord Mistborn. It's very, very unlikely, but eventually another Mistborn could be born (probably descended from Spook) - and apparently will be, for the Era 3 storylines (just one person, after like 300 years). It's very, very unlikely, but eventually a full Feruchemist could arise in the Terris Village. But it wouldn't likely be from Ferring stock, as that would include Allomancy genes. Their "breeding for a full Feruchemist" would have to be seeing who the "pure Terris" ancestors were of a Ferring, and matching them up with other people like that. To create another living Lord Ruler type person, with both Feruchemy and Allomancy for all metals in one person, without equipment, would require some level of "divine injection": either a recreated Full Feruchemist who ingests lerasium, or some Act of Harmony that massively upgrades someone directly. Marsh is the closest thing to a "Fullborn" these days, what with all his spikes for metals of many of both powers, and a "classical" ability to Compound with hemalurgically derived powers that appears to have been lost in Era 2.
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Nitpick: that really, definitely
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I like to think that TLR would show up in a mask at random balls, turning off his mega-Soothing while claiming to be a Lord... uh, Shekar from some outer Dominance, and everybody would have to pretend to be fooled. Except for that one guy who actually was fooled, and acted/talked badly around him like he was some bumpkin nobleman he'd never seen or heard of before, and made fun of his unusual accent. Everybody waited to see the guy get wasted, but instead they became great friends, because Rashek found he liked that could actually be himself around that guy - go hiking, jam with him while playing the flute, etc., ...Until eventually the secrets came out that tore them apart. It was over a woman, of course. Her name was Lutha. She lived on the second floor.