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robardin last won the day on October 14

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About robardin

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    notting the not on the pleasing of all

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  1. Egad. Because if she really thinks logically about utilitarianism - and she is a very logical scholar - she might reach this conclusion!
  2. I definitely don't see the Fused as "polar opposites" to the Radiants; you only need look at someone like Leshwi to appreciate that, as one of the ones who are still sane, and reflects on how far most of the Fused have drifted from their original motivations/selves in terms of what they're willing to do. By and large they're caught up in just wanting to finally win at all costs - but they weren't originally like that, rather they were mostly originally like she is now. When Raboniel speaks of how the humans haven't yet learned "the power of oaths" I don't think she is referring to oaths that the Fused themselves have made: "The bond" = the Nahel bond, which she knows (or thinks she knows) something about "the deep mechanics" that the current crop of autodidact Radiants do not, and "the power of oaths" I would think is something of the Nahel bond, of Honor. Or perhaps of massive fabrials involving sentient spren, like the Oathgates are - ever wonder why are they called that? You might say, because it requires a Radiant of the Third Ideal with a living Shardblade to operate them - but Odium also said that his forces would be able to use/repair the one at Thaylen City if it were accidentally destroyed by Thunderclasts, so long as the gems were recovered. Isn't that interesting? And this is before they had either Malata the Diagram Dustbringer in hand, or Jezrien's Honorblade that the Diagram managed to steal. "The nature of the tones of the world" = not just the rhythms of Roshar, but something that ties in with "cymatics", the formation of great cities like Kholinar.
  3. I had not made that connection, actually. Well done!
  4. They have a Shin in custody, who if they asked, would tell them he had trained with most if not all the Honorblades in their possession ("Szeth had trained in all ten Surges"). So a question of, "Hey, what have the Shin figured out about using the Bondsmith powers of Ishar?" actually could have an answer without sending someone to Shin who manages to come back. Ash says that the Shin "had legends... prophecies about the coming of this Return." So when they made Szeth Truthless, it wasn't denying that there would be one... Just that it hadn't happened yet? That seems flimsier. Skybreakers have been "harrying Azir", requiring us to keep "dedicating forces" in that region. Forces... Of Windrunners? Who else could hold off flying Radiants? Or is the Mink correct in that they are only there to serve as a distraction?
  5. Just Plate, or Full Shards? Or has Dalinar given Oathbringer to Cord? Because Rock was taking the full set of Shards he won from Amaram back to the Horneater Peaks. (That would be the Blade that Heleran had wielded.)
  6. Indeed, and when Shallan "regressed", so did the Nahel bond (and Pattern all but "died"). And as has often been the case with these bonds, the Ideals are in part expressions of how the particular Radiant views either the world or themself, as we see with the variants on the Third Ideal of the Windrunners. So perhaps it depends on how the Skybreaker in question views the Crusade's original purpose and relative completion. We see that Skybreakers become Masters only at the Fourth Ideal (which from what we see in Skybreaker training is the level at which they can take on squires), but we've only seen one Fourth Ideal actually declared: Szeth's Crusade: "I will cleanse the Shin of their false leaders". This could be interpreted in different ways: physical elimination of the "false" leaders who had (knowingly) proclaimed the Desolations ended, Nahel bonds a thing of the past, and condemned him to being Truthless for saying otherwise; or, exposing and casting down their leaders as misled (perhaps by Nale himself!). Or yet other ways. So it'll be interesting to see how Szeth goes about completing this "to the satisfaction of his highspren". They seem to allow technicalities, so it doesn't have to be something as extreme as "kill them all!" as a superset solution, if it turns out Szeth discovers that there was one particular person or subgroup genuinely misleading all the others. (Like what if it was ultimately something Taravangian engineered, who knows the Shin language, by somehow corresponding or otherwise manipulating them in order to "maketouseaTruthlessCanwecraftaweapon" as Floorboard 17 paragraph 2 of the Diagram conceived of?)
  7. As @Halyo_Alex said, that probably wasn't his Fourth Ideal. After all, to be "completed to the satisfaction of one's spren" would require a goal with a verifiable end, and an eternally ongoing type of "mission to prevent" can never be deemed over except in failure. Though it does raise a few interesting questions... Starting with the Nalan-specific ones: he says he is the only Herald to have "eventually joined their own Order", and Ki the Master Skybreaker said during Szeth's induction that no Skybreaker "in centuries" has reached the Fifth Ideal to become the Embodiment of Law. But Nale later demonstrated that he had. Which means he "joined his own Order" at least centuries ago. While his progress was probably extremely rapid (even faster than Szeth's was), at a minimum he reached the Fourth Ideal at about that time, if not significantly longer ago. So, when did that happen, his bonding a highspren to "join his own order"? His abandoned Honorblade disappeared from Shin "a long time ago"; I would imagine that could be linked to his becoming a Skybreaker himself, because abandoning the Oathpact at Ahrietiam seems like something his highspren might well have "died" over, had he joined the Skybreakers before then. And why else would he "go back" to take up his Honorblade, if not because in some sense he felt he'd renewed an Oath with respect to it (and it being the Skybreaker Honorblade)? By his own account, he worked for "thousands of years to prevent another Desolation" after Ishar warned him of the danger of other Radiants "upsetting the balance now that Honor is dead". (This is at the end of OB Ch. 121.) That implies he took up his mandate to eliminate non-Skybreaker Surgebinders only after the Splintering of Honor. Did he have a hand in engineering the Recreance, while holding the Skybreakers back from it? That would have been a masterstroke. Perhaps that was his Fourth Ideal! And more generally for the Skybreakers: what if the the Crusade objective later proves to be incorrect in basis, is discovered to have been incompletely achieved, or even undone (whether or not the Skybreaker might have prevented its undoing)? Does the highspren "die" as with an oath violated, or does the Skybreaker have to do a patch job? Is the Nahel bond regressed to the Third ideal?
  8. Right. So... Why would the Stormfather, being aware of the Oathpact being broken, still want to forbid spren (particularly honorspren) from bonding with humans again? If it's death by oathbreaking by human hands or splintering by Odium, at least go down fighting? With him trying to wash away the Alethi army before the Battle of Narak, I guess you might say he hoped to forestall the Everstorm by making it a default victory for the Parshendi so they wouldn't have to do it?
  9. Well the WoB that is usually referenced on this may not mean quite what some people take it to mean, in my opinion. Even though he basically says, it means what you think it means, he also hedged with the squidgy word "technically" to lead off with. So yes. The "power of Ruin" is somehow involved in what makes Nightblood special, and not in a general "a magic thing in the Cosmere created to destroy necessarily reflects Ruin". Some people think this means that there is somehow atium alloyed with the steel that was in Nightblood; others note that the Cosmere Timeline places Warbreaker between Era 1 and Era 2 of Mistborn, (...oh, and I just realized this is in the general Stormlight Archive forum, so out of respect I'll spoiler the info here that references Big Reveals of Mistborn...) As for my take, ask me on a different day and I'll give you a different answer. I like both angles!
  10. What I mean is, imagine something which first became physical in the Cognitive Realm - my example of the ship that was built from raw wood in Silverlight. A ship built in the Physical Realm has a bead in Shadesmar, which is the realm of thought and concept, which is why spren live there/originate from there. Objects develop an identity that deepens with time, an identity as given to it by sentient beings thinking about it, as we see when Shallan has to convince things to change to Soulcast them. They don't just resist changing, they argue back. This is also something of the Cognitive Realm. I would think that a ship built in Silverlight would not have a Shadesmar bead if and until it were pushed into the Physical Realm - that would be the "reverse scenario" of something physical, like one's clothing, "replacing" the bead version of it in Shadesmar if the wearer were to gate through as a living being. So what would that "new bead" be like? If the bead has an identity and memory of "being a ship" the way that The Wind's Pleasure did, despite there never having been a "Shadesmar bead" version of it before, doesn't that imply there was a Cognitive version of it all along? If the relationship between Shadesmar and the Physical Realm is akin to that of objects casting a shadow on the wall, then what does it mean to be a shadow of a shadow, or for something to be real in the shadow world?
  11. I didn't mean to imply it was the Unmade in the sphere he gave to Szeth - obviously impossible since it was free to then move to Jah Keved after Gavilar died. But being influenced by an Unmade could have driven him to do something megalomaniacal, like not just capture Voidlight but... Whatever this is.
  12. Good summary. As I noted somewhere at the bottom of a post in the recent Ch 16 thread, the way that Gavilar behaves towards Navani and Jasnah -- coldly angry, cruel without being directly violent, and insisting that Jasnah marry Amaram because he wills it so and she must obey -- are spot on to how Lin Davar acts... But only after Gavilar is killed. Shallan noted in Ch 61 of WoR ("Obedience"), a flashback to "one and a half years ago" not long before she kills her father, that this "darkness in his eyes" was related to this "new anger of his", as well as his sudden desire to become rich and influential. It sure feels like something malevolent was influencing Gavilar to desire power and domination, and then moved on to the Davar household. As for the spheres, why did he hand only this specific one to Szeth and not his entire bag? Which was later found empty by Navani. It's almost as if, as he lay dying, he realized this one in particular was especially dangerous, yet that someone In The Know would come looking for them after he died and an empty bag would be far more noticed than a bag containing many spheres but missing one (a full tally perhaps not being known). What that would imply for this one, that warps space and feels like it as an evil rhythm to Rlain where even the ruby containing Nergaoul evidently did not, we don't know yet. All we know is, it's not simply a perfect (non-leaky) gem containing Voidlight - they already have Voidlight in spheres and this is not the same. Perhaps it's an imprisoned Thunderclast? And yes, what was the "ancient spren" that Aesudan knows, or thinks she knows, that Gavilar found? She speaks here like she was high up or in with the Sons of Honor.
  13. I love how intense this Rosharan Kandra Hunt is, somewhere Brandon is chortling away. And then in the end, all along the kandra was simply a chouta vendor or something. Because everybody eventually breaks down and gets a street cart chouta, and people always talk while they wait for their chouta, and unlike a pub or a bar, a chouta stand can be moved to wherever the kandra needs it to be.
  14. The whole "existing physically in the cognitive realm" is weird, TBH. So what happens when a living person crosses into the CR, what happens to their "bead" - it's replaced with the "actual" person, right? Well, what about stuff you create or change physically in the CR - do they only "beadify" if/when they're taken to the Physical Realm? Like, The Wind's Pleasure was a ship that had a "spren" (bead) that resisted being changed into water by Shallan's Soulcasting, and argued back, because it had been a ship for a long time, people anthropomorphize ships, and it wanted to continue "to serve" as a ship. So what if humans built a ship in Shadesmar, assembling it with wood transported from the Physical Realm, at a shipyard in Silverlight? Would that ship have a bead/spren? If the answer is "only when it gets to the Physical Realm", then what if after many years of use in Shadesmar that putative Lux Argenti finally entered into the Physical Realm, pushed through Cultivation's Perpendicularity to sail directly on the Shardpool in the Horneater Peaks or something. Would the "spren" of that ship now remember everything that happened with it in its "lifetime" in the CR? And if so, doesn't that imply that there is a Cognitive Realm behind the Cognitive Realm, so to speak?
  15. Raboniel says: She doesn't think it's happened yet, but also thinks (knows) that it is not a matter of technique but execution. The humans simply haven't thought of trying to capture a Fused in a gem - they only ever captured an Unmade during the False Desolation (when the Fused were still on Braize), and now Nergaoul in their direct experience not that long ago (how long is the "gap time" since Thaylen Fields? Two years?) That said, how would it be done? Lure a spren with something it knows, something it loves... What would that mean in terms of doing the same for a Fused? If it would take Shallan to capture Re-Shapnir, does that mean it has to be Kaladin to gem Leshwi? Navani to gem Raboniel?