geoffw35

I know I'm late to this thread, but I wanted to second the recommendation of Daughter of Smoke and Bone. I really liked this series. The narrator is excellent, so I listened on the audiobook. Another very strong female character in a fantasy setting is The Queen of the Tearling. The ending turned a number readers off, but not me. I thought it worked.

First, I have to say that graphic novels are not very interesting to me. The two that I have read and enjoyed (though would never say I love) were Sandman and Preacher. Still, I felt I had to read this because it is Cosmere. So I kind of forced myself to check it out of the library and I'll probably do the same with Vol 2. My hope is that Brandon will not again put out a Cosmere story in this format. If one follows a novel, then fine. I'll ignore it because the novel is what I care about. The richness of Brandon's characters and the amazing dialogue, especially in Oathbringer (which I think is his best work) just can't be done in a graphic novel.

After reading about the false desolation in the Coppermind, I went searching for a forum thread on the Recreance because I was convinced that the lobotomy/enslavement of the singers was a much stronger reason to break the bonds with their spren; I figured someone else must have come to this same conclusion. The timing of the Recreance and the end to the false desolation was just too appropriate to ignore. I had felt that the history of the human invasion and the fear stoked by Honor that they would destroy Roshar factored into the decision, but were not sufficient for the betrayal. The KR would have figured that their oaths would be enough to keep them from destroying Roshar. But this decision by the KR to enslave and lobotomize the singers was clearly a breaking of their oaths. The last straw, as you said in the discussion. Thanks for the good shardcast!

True. Except for Szeth, Lift and perhaps others among his acolytes. I mentioned it because he didn't add anything new and speculates about the fight and the reason Helaran may had been sent. I'm still waiting for more information one way or the other. Mraize didn't add anything about the shard blade fight, that is. What he said about Helaran and her mother being, if not members in, at least heavily influenced by the Skybreakers is interesting. That they could so influence her mother as to turn her against a child she loved and want to kill her is frightening, cultic craziness.

Why? It makes perfect sense to me, and it is consistent with everything we know. Mind you, there are still probably people out there who think Heralan lent his Plate and Blade to someone else and he is in fact out and about... But I never thought it to be a viable theory, so I am happy to take Mraize's explanations at face value. Yes, and I'm still one of them. I've said that I think the likelihood of this theory being true is not very high, but I still believe it. Mraize's information is not perfect. He does not seem to know that Nale's attitude has changed following the events in Edgedancer, or at least he chooses not to mention it. He speculates as to why Helaran tried to kill Amaram: sent by Nale or maybe going on his own to prove himself. Mraize seems to accept that it was Helaran. On the other hand, if Helaran is alive and he knows about it, this is something he could, and likely would, hold back as a future "payment" to Shallan for her services. I trust Pattern when he says there are lies in the letter. The Ghostbloods are a very interesting and mysterious group that we surely will learn more about as the series progresses.

I mentioned in a post back a bit in this thread that I believed that another was carrying the blade and was killed by Kaladin. I have never thought it was anything other than a dead shardblade which another could certainly carry. There certainly are counter arguments--red hair, his father believes he was killed, etc. So I like the theory (I don't claim it as mine, but I agree it has merit), but it is not the most likely scenario.

I think you may be right about which scene is referenced here. However, he could have bonded with a spren between that time and Kaladin's killing of the shardbearer.

From March 22 2014: QUESTION I guess Helaran was not bonded to a spren then? BRANDON SANDERSON Why do you say that QUESTION I saw that his Blade had a gemstone at the bottom, so that was a clue. BRANDON SANDERSON That is a very good clue. Note that Brandon does not say that it was Herlaran. Also, honor blades do not have these gemstones.

I know. Lin is probably the most important of those I mentioned when I said: "because so many important characters seem to accept Helaran's demise". Lots of possibilities, though. Helaran could have learned that his father wanted him killed and so, after the shardbearer's death, decided to have someone tell Lin that it was he who died ending that particular threat.

If Helaran had died and Brandon brought him back, I would agree with those who disapprove. I'm pretty sure he is either dead and gone, or wasn't the shardbearer who was killed. I don't at all feel that finding him to be alive would be cheat. Jasnah's return could fall into that category, but I would not agree with that either. Her mother certainly seemed to believe that it was nearly impossible to kill. And, more importantly, this shows one of the most powerful abilities of the transportation surge. So I like it. I agree that we don't have a lot to go on regarding his character outside of his family, but his love for his brothers and sister are at least some indication that he was a good man. So the feeling I get from what we are shown of him is not, I think, purely manufactured out of my wish. If I get my wish, I would love to read about the highly likely encounter with Shallan where she explains what happened to their mother.

One thing I'm not seeing in this thread was discussed in another thread that I can't find at the moment. That is that it is possible, but perhaps unlikely (because so many important characters seem to accept Helaran's demise), that Helaran was not the one who was killed, but another Veden who was using a blade Helaran had no use for anymore should he have bonded a spren. I see Helaran as an honorable person and I find it unlikely that he would so casually slaughter so many who were not fighting him and were unlikely to be able to damage him in any case. The shardbearer's face was so damaged that he might not have been definitively identifiable. The blade was definitely a dead spren as can be seen by the gemstone that is attached to it. Such gemstones are not attached to honor blades. Maybe someone shot down this theory effectively and I just missed it. I've haven't been following the forum as much as I would like because I'm working my way through the WoB's. So much information! A lot of it very informative. I may not get my wish but I will say that I really want this theory to be true. I want Helaran to be the man of honor that I imagine him to be. It would be great if he had become a member of the Skybreakers. Somehow I don't see the Skybreakers as being involved in a plot to kill Amaram.

I'm not saying that. I don't think Amaram would want to murder Elhokar or Dalinar. I take him at his word that he wants to bring the High Princes together despite their antagonism and petty squabbling. He certainly is an ends justify the means type of guy. It seems like he has justified his treatment of Kaladin but also seems to be clueless that his own greed is mixed into that justification. The "patriots" do want Elhokar dead and they have access to the diagram. Does that mean that Taravangian is OK with this plan to murder the king? Graves said they were allowed to pursue their own goals and interests until they are "called up". Does this mean called up by Taravangian? Could be. Whether that group wants to see the return of the voidbringers is not clear. Taravangian wants Dalinar killed, but it seems his reason is the potential for a peace treaty with the Listeners. So I presume he too wants the return of the voidbringers. So many groups with differing goals and ambitions, some of which seem to align. I suspect that Taravangian, when he collects the information from all his spies, will want to support Dalinar in his war against the voidbringers and will see him as an ally.

I remember that. But he is not sitting on his hands waiting. He is trying to reform the world to prepare it for the coming desolation. Whether his murders will end up strengthening the world or making things worse is yet to be seen. I didn't mean to say that I thought Taravangian, Amaram and Gavilar were all thinking along the same lines, but their ideas do align to some degree. Amaram wants to return power to the Vorin leadership as well as bringing back the Voidbringers. I don't know whether Gavilar feels the same about Vorin power, but both of them feel the return of the voidbringers is necessary for the heralds to return and for the KR to be re-founded. Gavilar was also in communication with Taravangian until he was murdered. They may have had different tactics but I don't think they are opposed.

That is how his conversation went, but I'm not convinced it is his reason. I think that his desire is to bring back the heralds and the KR. Not that he will take the fight to Odium, but that he and those he works with, Mr. T, Amaram et al, are attempting to cause a crisis sufficient to shock the heralds and the spren into returning in order that the true battle against Odium can resume and be finished one way or another. I know that speculation is rampant in this thread, and it's so fun! Oathbringer should make this much clearer, I believe. Having fallen in love with these books, the wait is almost painful.

I completely agree that Szeth is perfectly suited to be a Skybreaker. One interesting twist is that he now has Nightblood instead of bonding a spren. How does that affect things like becoming a KR? I hope we hear more about this in Oathbringer. I think I heard somewhere that Brandon will be using Szeth as the primary focus character in book 4, but I could be mistaken. I'm very interested to see what his character becomes. I also hope that Brandon publishes Nightblood close to the same time.