LeahAstonished

There could definitely be other things going on. But I think this boundary between oaths might be slightly more defined. In chapter 60 we see Venli try to swear an ideal that is not ready to be accepted. She could say the words, but didn't grasp the meaning behind them (Command with no Intent). And Dawnshard spoilers: I think Kaladin is in the exact opposite situation. His ideal is ready to be accepted he just hasn't said it (Intention waiting for a Command). I think this is what is granting him the fourth ideal level passive powers protecting him from the fabrial, but not the active ones. Just like he had the passive power to heal before he actually spoke the first ideal, but only got the active powers when he swore it. Such a late bloomer. I think Teft's fourth ideal wouldn't have been accepted before the occupation, so he went unconscious. But it would have been accepted when he was fighting Moash because the Intent was there, so he could summon Phendorana as a Shardblade.

Possible, but if so, it sure seems like they would have been brought up in Adolin's trial. I went ahead and added it there.

A possible continuity thing, could have a different explanation: The first thing I thought when I read that Captain Notum's father was a deadeye in RoW C36 was "isn't that Captain Ico's father that's the deadeye"? I continued to think about it and since Notum's father was born after the Recreance (OB C108) there would have to be extraordinary circumstances for him to become a deadeye, which might be the case. Just wanted to check if they got confused, though.

Notum from OB C108: Per this Notum's father was created after the Recreance. Notum from RoW C36: How did this happen? - Is this a Testament situation? I thought Syl was the first honorspren to bond a Radiant since the Recreance. Per this recent WoB, Moash "probably didn't attract any honorspren", let alone bond one, and that is the only candidate I can think of. - Was he one of Ishar's failed experiments? Those seem to pull them out of the Cognitive Realm all together, not create deadeyes. - Could there have been casualties in the honorspen's attempt to conquer Shadesmar? - Is this an error and Captain Notum's father got confused with Captain Ico's father?

Oathgate Locations Based off this in world representation of Roshar when the humans came from Ashyn, the planet was ruled by a dragon and a lion type thing (or a mink as Adolin observed). I think there is a WoB about whether the lion represents Honor that was RAFO'd but in the right direction, I think they discussed it on Shardcast but I can't currently find it on the Arcanum. I would assume Tanavast isn't actually from a sapient lion species, I would guess it is being used metaphorically, but I think they would show two dragons if that is what he is.

I have also played around with this theory, thinking that Taln's would have been the odd one out. But going with the cityspren thing, each Herald might have had a "companion" city. In WoK C19, Dalinar has a vision of Knights Radiant in the eighth heraldic epoch preparing for another desolation. At this point, the Midnight Essence has been released, I would guess this means Re-Shephir has been Unmade, but Natanatan is still standing, which in my theory would be destroyed right before Aharietiem. The Radiant notes that between Desolations, Alethela's duty is to "study the arts of war so that the others might have peace". So what if each of the 10 city had a duty that aligned with each of the Heralds, in this case I would match Talenel with Alethela. Then when the cityspren were Unmade, what if their nature corresponds to that duty. Possible combos and general order of destruction: Ba-Ado-Mishram - City: Shin Kak Nish/Shinovar, Duty: Religion, Herald: Ishar, Effect: god-like Connection Sja-anat - City: Aimia/Akinar, Duty: Secrets & Soulcasting, Herald: Battar, Effect: Transformation of spren Yelig-nar - City: Unknown, Duty: Unknown, Herald: Jezrien, Effect: Takes over people and grants all ten surges Re-Shephir/Midnight Mother - City: Makabakam/Azmir, Duty: The Law, Herald: Nale, Effect: The midnight essence copies unlawful acts Dai-Gonarthis/Black Fisher - City: Unknown, Duty: Scholarship, Herald: Paliah, Effect: Sorrow of some kind? Chemoarish/Dustmother - City: Unknown, Duty: Unknown, Herald: Chanarach, Effect: Something destructive? Moelach - City: Unknown, Duty: Healing, Herald: Vedel, Effect: Death rattles Ashertmarn - City: Unknown, Duty: The Arts, Herald: Shalash, Effect: the Revels Nergaoul - City: Alethela/Kholinar, Duty: Art of War, Herald: Talenel, Effect: Battle frenzy The 10th that was destroyed - City: Natanatan/Stormseat, Duty: Engineering, Herald: Kalak I go with a general east to west order as that is the direction of the Everstorm and would leave Natanatan last. I also am guessing that newer Unmade are more mindless than older Unmade, either because they started becoming less and less willing to be transformed or because Odium likes them mindless and was getting better at creating them that way. Sja-anat refers to the Sibling as "cousin".

This is how the Sibling describes the process of unmaking in RoW C42: I think Sja-anat might also use the Surge of Transformation and Voidlight to Enlighted spren. In fact, it might be the same process and you could also say she is unmaking them. The big difference, would be having a willing subject. Per this WoB: Maybe since the Sibling was very unwilling, they would have become a corrupted Unmade. But since Glys and Tumi were "Fully willing to become what they are", they are Enlightened Unmade. This is then why Sja-anat hates the term "corrupted" as she specifically only unmakes willing subjects (non-sapient spren being the gray area from the above WoB). Sja-anat notes in RoW I2 that if Odium figures out what she is doing behind his back, he will unmake her again, stealing her memory and ripping her to pieces. Since she would be unwilling in this case, she is describing what happens to a corrupted Unmade. Based off this, my theory is that the mindless Unmade, like the Thrill, were unwilling to become Unmade and thus became corrupted. While intelligent Unmade, like Sja-anat & Ba-Ado-Mishram, were willing (at that time) and thus became Enlightened. I don't know if we have solid confirmation that Sja-anat uses Voidlight when Englightening spren, but when Tumi hears the Rhythm of War, he starts pulsing to it, and wants to share it with his siblings (RoW C114), I take this as solid evidence that he was a spren that used only Stormlight, then was harmoniously infused with Voidlight during Enlightening, and now can use Warlight.

Do you think dragons/immortal beings can just hold it together over the years better than humans/mortal beings? Koravellium Avast and Edgli (theorized dragon) seem to be doing ok. Rayse, Tanavast, Leras, & Ati all seemed to be losing it before the end. Do we have confirmation on what type of beings they are? I think of them all as human.

In the Rhythm of War prologue, Navani sees Kalak, Nale & Gavilar with spheres on a table between them, including the anti-Voidlight sphere. Since this doesn't seem like Nale's type of thing, is Kalak the first to discover anti-Voidlight? Has he used it in the past? When he used it, was a side effect the Shattered Plains? - Great magic was unleashed on the Shattered Plains (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/168/#e10547) - At least one Herald knows what happened on the Shattered Plains (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/41/#e7226) If so, when and for what purpose? The only two things I could find are: - The city was inhabited when the shattering happened (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/296/#e9837) - Brandon is cagey on the timeline (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/296/#e9839) The first option I see is the imprisonment of Ba-Ado-Mishram, which we know he was present for (RoW epigraph C94). But I definitely picture this more like the imprisonment of The Thrill, so I am not exactly sure how the use of anti-Voidlight that resulted in such destruction would play into that plan. Anyone have more thoughts on this? My second option is that he used it to stop the creation of a 10th Unmade. This goes with a more in-depth theory, started on this thread: [Theory] Origins of the Unmade, Sin of the Singers [discuss] - RoW Lore, Magic, and Cosmere Discussion - 17th Shard, the Official Brandon Sanderson Fansite What if the 10 Oathgate cities are Dawncities, constructed by Dawnsingers around a "Cityspren" created by Adonalsium (Honor & Cultivation then used these Cityspren as inspiration for the Sibling)? What if Odium was systematically "unmaking" these Cityspren over the course of the desolations? By the Last Desolation, Odium could have unmade 9 of the Cityspren and went to Stormseat/Natanatan to unmake the last one. But Kalak had discovered a weapon by this time and at some point during the process, once the Cityspren was invested with Voidlight, he used anti-Voidlight against it. This destroyed the Cityspren (which is why there are only 9 unmade) and sent shock waves throughout the entire area creating the Shattered Plains.

Yes, Adonalsium could have created 10 "Cityspren" hearts for the Dawncities that the Dawnsingers were constructing. There might have been more Dawncities constructed, like Sesemalex Dar, but I think only the cities that eventually got Oathgates are the ones with spren. And that a Silver Kingdom developed around each of these cities. And most relevant here, the Sibling of Urithiru. After all, Sja-anat calls the Sibling "cousin", even though Odium doesn't like it (RoW I2). Maybe because it puts Honor & Cultivation on the level of Adonalsium. So the Sibling could have been created near the start of the Desolations to be a link to all the Cityspren through the Oathgates (the children of the Sibling, O C116). Now that they are connected each country had its own purpose within the war against the Voidbringers (WoK C19). Yes. I think this took a lot of time and happened over then entire length of the desolations. I wonder if their level of consent has to do with how intelligent/mindless they are now in the physical realm. Sja-anat and Ba-Ado-Mishram were probably willing converts. And what if their purpose during the war is the thing that got amplified by being "unmade". If Kholinar/Alethela was set up for the arts of war and to train people, maybe it was unwillingly unmade into Nergaoul/The Thrill. My last addition to this theory is that during the Last Desolation, the final Cityspren of Strormseat/Natanatan was unmade by Odium. But the forces of Honor & Cultivation, probably one or more Heralds*, had finally discovered a weapon against these unmade. Once the Cityspren were turned into splinters of Odium and invested with Voidlight, they could be destroyed by anti-Voidlight. And... KABOOM!... Shattered Plains and only 9 Unmade. Now the Desolations had gone nuclear and the Heralds knew they needed a radically different plan, so you get Aharietiam. The Heralds go into hiding along with their knowledge of anti-lights. The fused, like Raboniel, would of course know the process of unmaking a Cityspren and would know a power to destroy Odium's spren existed, but not how to create it, which leads right into Rhythm of War. * I would assume this same Herald gave Gavilar the sphere of anti-Voidlight

- As noted in the title, full Dawnshard spoilers in this post - Others have theorized that Ba-Ado-Mishram was using a Dawnshard: Ba-Ado-Mishram was using a Dawnshard? - RoW Lore, Magic, and Cosmere Discussion - 17th Shard, the Official Brandon Sanderson Fansite I think this is very possible and that it is imprisoned with her in the gem, which is why freeing her is so valuable. What I have observed of the nature of the Dawnshards so far (and confirmed by many on the forum): My theory on the last Dawnshard is that it is LIBERATE. I think Odium has been using this Dawnshard to "liberate" other shards from the vessels throughout the Cosmere and then brought it to this system. I think Ba-Ado-Mishram had possession of this Dawnshard during the False Desolation and used it to make connections to the singers that gave them "the power or scope to act as one pleases" or "liberty". I think when Melishi imprisoned Ba-Ado-Mishram in the gem, the Dawnshard went with her. Therefore, the resulting slaveform of the singers and the Radiant spren now becoming deadeyes when they broke their bonds are because LIBERATE is imprisoned, not Ba-Ado-Mishram. When Shallan asks "What power do the Ghostbloods seek with a thing that can bind the minds of an entire people?" I think she has it completely backwards. For the Ghostbloods purposes of moving freely between worlds, how much more valuable would LIBERATE be.

Like how Navani connects Towerlight to Science, I was thinking this third hybrid light would be connected to Art somehow. Maybe Culturelight? Probably too close to Cultivation though.

How about LIBERATE. Liberty is both: - the quality or state of being free, the power to do as one pleases - a violation of rules or a deviation from standard practice, "to take liberties" I think that goes pretty well with Odium, Ambition & Autonomy

I am on board with the three commands we have seen capitalized in the books: UNITE CHANGE SURVIVE For the fourth I suggest: LIBERATE It works as a balance to UNITE. And the definition of Liberty as "the power or scope to act as one pleases" sure fits the shards usually put in this fourth group: Odium, Ambition, Autonomy, & ... Also, going with the theory that Odium is the bearer of this Dawnshard, he sure has liberated a few vessels of their shards with it.

Adding another layer to this, I recently heard the theory of the Unmade being able to form Bondsmith Nahel bonds. I like this a lot. Then you would have the following: Stormfather - Stormlight Nightwatcher - Lifelight Sibling - Towerlight Ba-Ado-Mishram - Voidlight ?? - Warlight Sja-Anat - Voidlight + Lifelight If that's the case than "Enlightening" spren (corrupting them) may be a process that uses this hybrid light. I think Culturelight would work for this, or maybe it should just be called "Enlight"