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Lightspine last won the day on July 26 2020

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570 Lord Prelan


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  1. I agree partially with this interpretation, but I don't think Yolen is meant to be the "tranquiline halls" under that context. I didn't say this in my main post, but I believe that Vorinism is meant to be somewhat prophetic/cyclical. Currently, it describes the First Desolation—the arrival of humans on Roshar—from the perspective of the Dawnsingers. However, as you said, Roshar is Odium's training grounds for his future wars in the Cosmere. In this interpretation, wherever humans are sent to next to fight will be the "tranquiline halls" (although I guess they were never kicked out of them.. hmmm).
  2. The first part of this theory is built on information we've had since Oathbringer, and although I haven't seen a post about it myself, I wouldn't be surprised if somebody has made a post in the same vein. For the second part, I need to credit the moderator FeatherWriter, who brought it up in one of the 17th shard podcast (Shardcast) episodes. So I don't think of this theory as very original. I'm bringing together two separate ideas that I think fit together very nicely. Part 1: Vorinism is about the Dawnsingers After Oathbringer, I got a little suspicious about he Vorin faith. I doubt I'm the first one to have these thoughts. Let's list out the core beliefs of Vorinism and see what they imply. Origin of Humans on Roshar and Central Conflict: Long ago, humans lived on the Tranquiline Halls. The Voidbringers, from Damnation, came and took over the Tranquiline Halls, forcing humanity to flee to Roshar. Desolations: The Voidbringers periodically escape Damnation and try to wipe humanity off of the face of Roshar. Eventually, at Aharietiam, humanity defeated the Voidbringers and the battle moved to the Tranquiline Halls. Present Day and Afterlife: Currently, the Heralds fight a war against the Voidbringers in the Tranquiline Halls, joined by the souls of the dead. Now lets relate these beliefs to the what we know about the history of Roshar, and interpret it the way the characters in the book do: Ashyn = Tranquiline Halls, Braize = Damnation Origin of Humans on Roshar and Central Conflict: Humans made Ashyn inhospitable, came to Roshar seeking refuge. They were the first Voidbringers, bringing Odium with them. (You may notice that this doesn't really fit what Vorinism says) Desolations: The Fused escape from Braize when the Heralds break and try to win Roshar back from the Humans. Present Day and Afterlife: ????? No clear connection This is the face-value interpretation that is given by the books. Raboniel even tells Navani that Braize is the place she would call Damnation. But there are issues with it. Let me try to resolve those by flipping some names around. The Tranquiline Halls are Roshar. Damnation is Ashyn. "Roshar" is Braize (I know this one seems weird). This is now a story about the Dawnsingers. Origin of Humans on Roshar and Central Conflict: Humans, the first Voidbringers, come from Ashyn (Damnation) and drive the Dawnsingers out of Roshar (the Tranquiline Halls) and onto Braize ("Roshar"). This now matches up much better with the story told by Vorinism. Desolations: The Heralds reside on Braize to prevent the Returns. (Okay, this is by far the weakest connection made by this version of the story). Present Day and Afterlife: The Dawnsingers now go to fight on Roshar (the Tranquiline Halls) as the Fused after their deaths. After Aharietiam, 9 out of 10 Heralds are on Roshar rather than on Braize. This aligns with the idea that the Heralds are now in the Tranquiline Halls. I know it isn't perfect, but two out of the 3 points align much more closely with the story of the Dawnsingers than with the story of the Humans. In addition, we know that the Hierocracy erased a lot of the religion of Old Vorinism. It's highly theorized that Ishar was behind this. Therefore, it is pretty possible that the creator of the current Vorin faith new about these connections. Also, notice that this interpretation of events sort of places Odium in the role of the Almighty. (Following the first desolation, at least) Part 2: Dalinar's Fate In the first Rhythm of War Reactions Shardcast episode, FeatherWriter brings up this scene from Oathbringer: Featherwriter noted that this was eerily foreboding for Dalinar becoming one of the Fused. And if we interpret this through the lens of Vorinism being about the Dawnsingers, it becomes even more damning. "After the Tranquiline Halls are won back" now refers to the Fused winning back Roshar, after which Odium will "provide for Dalinar another conquest." If you ask me, Dalinar's chances in the contest of champions aren't looking so good.
  3. My mini theory on this is that one of the Sleepless is just being nice. Maybe Arclo?
  4. The dagger might not be strictly necessary. After all, the very first anti-voidlight sphere (from Gavilar) somehow reacted and triggered an explosion without the use of such a dagger. It must have made contact with voidlight somehow anyways. I know this isn't the same as contacting the investure of a Fused, but I think knowing that it isn't necessary in one scenario at least opens the possibilities somewhat. Theoretically, all the anti-voidlight needs is contact with the investure that comprises the Fused's cognitive shadow. We know that one way to make investure leave a gemstone is by breaking it (this works with spren, I think with stormlight? But i'm not entirely sure). I think that if you crushed up a sphere containing anti-voidlight it could conceivably release it. That means throwing them at the Fused and hoping the splatter on impact or something. Other than that, I guess they'd need to steal some Raysium. The Fused bring those spears into combat, so the Radiants could probably nab them if they defeat any.
  5. There has to be something more going on here. These fabrials are still accompanied by dormant spren in Shadesmar, and the anti-surgebinding fabrial was accompanied by a voidspren. That probably means that the spren isn't manifesting fully into the physical realm. Like, maybe only half its investure has taken physical form? Or something else to do with Intent. In addition, the Oathgate spren do seem to manifest as a very shardblade-like material.
  6. Ah yes, here it is: I guess this implies Kaladin's grandmother was the one who provides this distant relationship. I don't know what else to conclude from this, especially since we know nothing about Aesudan's family.
  7. This is something that might have crossed almost everybody's minds during the Hesina Interlude, but I haven't seen a post about it yet. We know from this WoB that one of Kaladin's maternal grandparents was lighteyed: In the Hesina Interlude, she remarks the following in reference to her father: I didn't catch the sword thing in my first read-through, so I'll reiterate what it means. Hesina's father would not normally be allowed to use a sword, but he has been granted an exception. Along with a comparison to a lighteyes that would otherwise make no sense, this is pretty strong evidence that he is darkeyed. This means that Kaladin's maternal grandmother must be the lighteyed one. I don't really have anything to add besides speculation. It seems like Kaladin's grandfather was a darkeyed businessman rich enough to marry somebody lighteyed. Hesina doesn't mention her mother at all in this Interlude, as far as I can tell, so we don't know anything about her. The citylord who Hesina's father bullied is almost definitely lighteyed—even small towns like Hearthstone have lighteyed citylords, and I'm pretty sure they must be lighteyed anyway—so is Hesina's mother of even higher standing? Edit: (additional speculation) the lack of mention of Hesina's mother might actually be significant. Lirin specifically only remarks about whether or not her father is alive. This may be an indication that Hesina's mother is already dead.
  8. We also need to remember that someone told Mraize that Shallan had seen a corrupted gloryspren. That points towards Beryl, yet, as far as we know, Beryl never used the Seon nor had the opportunity—since Pattern admits to the instances of disturbing the box. I guess it's possible that Beryl had her own Seon, though they are supposed to be very rare. However, I think the better answer is Radiant. Radiant killed Ialai, so she was essentially acting as the Ghostblood "spy" in that situation. We know that Shallan sort of wanted to pin the blame on Beryl, since she was the newest Lightweaver and the one whose betrayal would hurt the least. Thus, Radiant could have told Mraize the information about the gloryspren at one point to "protect" Shallan. Let's look at what Radiant says after Mraize repeats the gloryspren information: Radiant is trying to peddle the idea that it's Beryl! This is consistent if she were the one to frame Beryl. This is far from proof though, just what I think the most reasonable conclusion is for the identity of the "spy."
  9. @DracostarA seems to have suggested Voice of Lights first, actually!
  10. Wow, this is a really good observation but also quite puzzling. Does this mean that the cognitive shadows of the Fused are somehow in the "voidlight" state? And that spren like Phendorana are somehow in a "stormlight" state? Otherwise, anti-voidlight or anti-stormlight wouldn't work on them. I think a better answer might be surface area and rate of reactivity. If anti-voidlight and voidlight/Odium's investure need to physically contact in order to react, then their ability to mix is very important. For example, if you're trying to make a really big, fantastic explosion with hydrogen gas, you want it to be mixed well with oxygen first. A piece of wood contains a lot of energy to be released in burning, but it takes several minutes to burn fully because only the surface can react with oxygen. If you had a gas or liquid that held that amount of energy, or a solid that contained its own oxidizer (like most high explosives do) then it would react nearly instantly and cause an explosion instead of a long-lasting fire. (Minute physics actually has a new video that pretty much covers this exact topic, except they compare TNT and marshmallows). That means that, if we think of this in terms of typical chemical reactivity, it makes sense that a solid would react much slower than a liquid or gas (I actually think "Light" is a supercritical fluid from Navani's description, which is a state that has properties of both liquids and gasses, but that's not really important for the topic at hand). Therefore, it's possible that the Raysium dagger was being corroded (and releasing some heat) while in contact with the anti-voidlight, and Navani didn't notice. However, this explanation only works if the Raysium is conducting the anti-voidlight along its surface. If, somehow the anti-voidlight were inside the Raysium then... well I don't really have an analogous situation in real life for that, but it sounds like that should be a condition that allows for fast—and explosive—reaction. Therefore, you would be correct that they anti-voidlight can only react with Odium's investure in the "voidlight" form.
  11. Wait, really? HOPE LIVES! Now that you mention it, Kelsier became a shadow after letting go of a shard's power, so I see where you're coming from. But I don't think I know enough to say for sure if this applies entirely to Teft. I really hope it does, if it means Teft passed on knowing that Kaladin was doing alright.
  12. This is a detail that made me hate Moash even more: While Kaladin was swearing the his 4th Ideal, he hears a voice that isn't identified by the narrator: Since this person refers to Kaladin as "lad", it's clearly meant to be Teft. The easiest conclusion to make is that this is a Spiritual echo, much like Tien or Evi. However, after I read the final Eshonai flashback I had a bit of hope. What if it was Teft's cognitive shadow? This scene did take place within minutes of Teft's death, so it seems possible. Teft was Radiant, so he died with enough investure... except he didn't. Because Moash killed Phendorana first. Teft did not die Radiant. I'm not saying that Phendorana's death wasn't already tragic. But Teft's death had overshadowed it until I realized this. Teft should have been there to see Kaladin swear his Ideal. He deserved it. Perhaps he would have also been granted a final mercy by the Stormfather, and been allowed to fly with the storm. One last time. But Storming Moash couldn't even let him have that.
  13. My assumption from what we heard of his discussion with Gavilar in the prologue, and what he tells Shallan later, is that he and Gavilar were working on a way to transport him offworld—he mentions wanting to escape Roshar, and merely being able to go to Braize is definitely not enough. I know that's not the same goal that the Sons of Honor have as a whole, and there also has to be some reason why Kalak continued advising them even after Gavilar died. (also, this is something I just remembered but Kalak must have advised Amaram to kill Kaladin's squad and take the shards... I feel like we might see the consequences of this)
  14. theory

    I noticed when Navani mentioned that the Lights seemed to be between those two states—I think it means they might be supercritical fluids. For those who don't know, past a certain pressure liquids will form a supercritical fluid instead of a gas when temperature is increased. This fluid has density comparable to that of a liquid but it completely fills its container, just as a gas would. The easiest one to create is supercritical CO2, you should be able to find videos of that all over. This would mean that the Light fills the gem instead of just settling as a pool on the bottom, even if the gem is only partially infused, which I think is consistent with observations from the books. However, I didn't immediately make the connection that perhaps investure from all shards would take the form of "Light" when it is in the state of a supercritical fluid. Such a state requires high pressure, so it would only appear when it is contained in a small space (exactly like a gemstone)!
  15. I agree with the first half of what you said completely. However, it is shown in Szeth's duel with Kaladin at the end of WoR that he can heal from Shardblade injuries. It appears to have been a misconception of his since it is more difficult than for a Radiant. So, I think the spiritual/cognitive explanation is by far the best. In addition, eyes have a very large symbolic or thematic role on Roshar. When someone dies by a Shardblade, their eyes burn out. Dead spren have their eyes scratched out. Radiants and Voidbringers (Singers with forms of power, to be specific) undergo changes in eye color. Not to mention the whole lighteyes/darkeyes division which probably stems from the Radiants. Moash losing his eyes is a parallel of either someone who has been killed by a shardblade (since the quote is "his vision had been burned away" it matches pretty well) or deadeyed spren. Even though the description of vision "burned away" matches shardblade deaths better, I find the deadeye connection to be more meaningful here. It's as if part of Moash's soul has been ripped away. Is it possible that, when the Towerlight severed his Connection with Odium, this worked a little like the breaking of a Nahel bond? Did it damage Moash's spiritweb in the same manner as the breaking of oaths damaged spren?