kais
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Posts posted by kais
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Overall
Same comments as everyone else I think. Bit too long with the battle, and I'd have liked to see more actual damage and/or plot progression. I still think it takes too long to get to this small plot point, and I've lost the significance of it between three chapters and WRS. I think we also need a bit more on the world stakes, since this would help clarify the plot.
Your writing, as always, continues to improve. Readability was just fine. Dialogue was stocky in a few places, but in others it flowed very nicely.
As I go
- pls 1-2: the dialogue through here is a bit stilted, it feels like
- pg 9: I was entertained for these pages, but now as I hit page nine I'm starting to wonder what the purpose of this battle is, other than self defense, and again wondering about that missing global arc
- pg 10: I do love the idea of igniting coal dust during an air ship battle!
- pg 13: I think the battle is going on a bit long at this point. I'd like to see some real damage or plot movement
- pg 18: I'm guessing that the knight reveal is our plot, but it's so far in now that I can't remember the relevance of knights or what this might mean for the plot. At this stage I could not tell you what the global or personal plots are.
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Overall
Wow! This was a giant leap from your last piece, and in all the best ways! I think some of the old issues remain, such as burying the lede, waiting too long for emotional impact and real global motivations, but it moved so much faster than your last piece. Fantastic improvement!
I agree with the others that the first part should be cut down quite a bit. I had a very hard time grounding myself at all in a long battle with people I did not yet care about. I felt like the piece finally found its footing in the last few pages, where the emotional resonance hit home. I also agree that playing up the dieslpunk in the first bit would help, as would cutting out a lot of those extra names. Focus on the people we truly need, the two that do all the chit chat in part two.
Nicely done!
As I go
- pg 4: the writing is very engaging through here but I'm not connecting with the characters or world at all. I don't really feel drawn to anything, and feel like I am reading just to find the hook
- pg 6: this is a very long battle scene for having no real character or world buy-in yet
- pg 10: aside from this being a steampunk piece with large fighting mechas, and our lead trying to get his...wife and sons(??) back, I'm just not sure what the goal of this piece is. What is the global plot? What caused the kidnappings? I know it's been said but it just isn't sticking with me as as a strong enough motivator. We started with a long battle. There are large robot animals. Now people are talking and I know our lead wants to get family back but other than that I feel very adrift in the story
- bottom of page 11 we get some world building that I think was desperately needed much earlier. There's an evil empire and a tax situation. So very standard fantasy fare, and would have helped to have in the first page or so
- pg 16: I'm starting to get a better feel for the conflict between our two protagonists, the desperation of the one in particular. Still I feel like this could/should have come much earlier
- pg 21: much better emotions once the wife and kids are here
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Overall
As always, your writing flows nicely and is easy to read. However, issues that started with the last submission only snowball here. The lack of arc is a problem, as is the lack of C's emotion and investment. I need something to happen, or for C to engage with the plot, or to get excited about something. Everything is very dream like and detached, and that makes me not really care about the characters or the setting.
I have the same general complaints as everyone else - I don't know what is 'normal' and C is far too trusting/non-emotive. I think if you can make C more engaging, both with her world and the events and characters, it will clear up a lot of the issues.
As I go
- pg 1: this is all still very internal. I'd like her to talk more, or interact more
- pg 2: why does she not react more strongly to the green boy? C doesn't seem to emote much, if at all, which means I don't get pulled into the narrative. If nothing is exciting or noteworthy to her, then it isn't to the reader, either
- pg 4: There’s more to the curse than she realised. <-- I am so confused. I need more to go off of, and more emotions. The writing is fine but I feel like we are being purposefully not given enough information to get invested, and C doesn't seem to do much more than ride the ebbs and flows of the plot
- pg 6: I have been able to use my raven form for as long as I can remember. I suspect it may be a subtle precursor to the unveiling of my latent Chosen One <-- V breaks the fourth wall and C doesn't even react. This just further distances me from the narrative
- pg 8: which is of course the only school in the town <-- we are getting a lot of redundant information from last time
- the lack of arc in each sub is also not helping with investment
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Overall
There's an arc this time, which is good! I can see some progression to the story, and the plot appeared...kind of randomly but it is there. I still don't like our protagonist. She comes off as very distant, aloof, and superior, and doesn't seem to have flaws so much as indifference and holier-than-thou attitudes. I need some humanity. Some vulnerability. We get that a bit with the parents but not in with the other kids, and we need that with the other kids to buy into the eventual romance line. I also want more on the flower thing because it keeps being dangled and then we get no movement on it. The B plot in romance runs tandem to the A plot at all times and right now we have lag time, then a hint of A, then more A, and then these like flashes of B. They should both be full steam ahead from chapter one.
Still, good progress!
As I go
- life going back to normal is not a very engaging first sentence. In general, you want the opening of each chapter to push the reader to keep reading, and the last bit of a chapter to propel them to the next
- pg 1: It’s sweet of you to pretend that you care, though <-- why is the mom so passive aggressive? Wow!
- pg 2: the chapter is really dragging. We still haven't had any sort of inciting incident or plot progression. In fact I don't really know what the beta plot is (the alpha plot being the romance). But even romance books have a beta plot.
- pg 4: Meet me out by the portables right at 2:30. Have your phone on you and be ready to record. That flower he gave me has been acting strange, and he seems to know <-- this all seems to come from nowhere. Why is meeting someone by portable classrooms even remotely sketchy? Why would you bring someone else? Why would you ever suspect a flower is an issue? There are huge logic leaps in here and it's like the characters decided to make a plot all of a sudden
- pg 4: Time to unravel what they’re up to, one mystery at a time <-- what mystery though? Up until this page it's just been middle grade love triangles. No mystery at all. This is a very sudden pivot that was not foreshadowed
- pg 6: this dance rejection is harsh wow
- pg 6: . I know what it’s like, and I hope your family member’s health gets better. Please let me know if there’s anything I can do to help.” A pause. “No, sorry. I know I shouldn’t make this about me, <-- he wasn't making it about himself, though. He was empathizing.
- pg 7: I still dislike our protagonist. She is just really full of herself. Which, yes, MG/YA protags can be like that, but I haven't seen enough redeeming qualities to outweigh the deep self absorption
- pg 8: with a large number of people from an age demographic not known for our decision-making <-- I don't think any teen thinks this way about themselves
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Welcome to RE, and well done with your first public critique!
Overall
It's going to be somewhat hard to critique as we usually do without chapter structures. I think you'll get a lot of harping about arcs and such, since we don't get clear endings. Some more specific thoughts and suggestions are below. With that said, the writing is fantastic and the prose flows very smoothly. I have no technical quibbles with this piece and found it a joy to read.
To your questions:
1) I don't have much of a feel for her because I really only saw her do things, or react, in two scenes. The rest was just authorial voice
2) Setting seems fun and creepy! I like the world building a lot
3) Read on--maybe 50/50. I'd give it another few pages to see if the inciting incident occurs, or if we get some global plot. If not, I would likely put the book down. The lack of chapters gives way to lack of an arc, and I want to see my chapter arcs and character movement to feel invested in a book
As I go
- some wordiness in that first sentence. I think if you removed 'the town of' it would be a really punch first line. We can figure out it is a town on our own
- pg 5: there is a very organic and smooth structure through here, and I was along nicely for the ride until the top of page five. I expected the inciting incident from them playing in the forbidden land. It did not come. Which means my investment going forward is diminished and it will be hard to read as carefully because I will be skimming for the incident I felt I was promised early on. I'm still invested for sure, but reader reactions like these can help with edits later on
- pg 6: wobbly writing. Ah. Our incident perhaps? I'm invested again
- pg 8: I'm losing interest again. Another scene change and I have no feel for where the story is going. The issue you are going to have without chapters is that you likely will not have narrative arcs. Narrative arcs are, for the most part, expected in literature these days, especially YA and MG which have some fairly tight structures. Especially middle grade, where short chapters matter for young readers. I'm going to suggest that you consider breaking the story into chapters, so you can arc each one. It should help keep reader investment higher
- pg 8: 'wood stove' is not a proper noun and should not be capitalized
- pg 8: I laughed at when she wondered if she was named after the stove
- pg 11: a few too many characters at this point, I think, and I don't have as strong a grip on C as I'd like. She's great when she is talking and interacting, but the authorial voice is too much, for me, at this stage, without an apparent narrative arc. Also, C does not yet seem to be driving the story, or have any investment in it. What are her goals? What are the story's goals? What is the global arc of this book? Eleven pages in I should be able to answer at least one of these questions, if not all of them (you tend to get these answers very early in MG and YA books)
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I'll be out for the next few weeks. I have surgery tomorrow and am not sure how long it will be before I'm able to critique and such again. Don't have too much fun while I'm gone.
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Overall
I was very engaged for the first seven pages. The more dialogue that crept in though, and the more S got treated like a child, and the more condescending our main character became, the harder it was to concentrate. The world building through this story thus far is spectacular and very rich, and I enjoy it. The dialogue lags in places, and I don't like how the C/S dynamic is shaping up, or generally how she is treated. If you had another female character it would be different, but since there is only one, she has a bit of a burden to shoulder.
I am not at all familiar with Arthurian legends so will bow out of that question. Generally though, I'm always 'on board' for an airship adventure.
As I go
- pg 2: The honor is yours, I’m sure <-- LOL I'm sure
- pg 5: We haven’t used it for centuries <-- solid world building. And the narrative is flowing nicely. I'm well hooked. I'm enjoying the voice in this chapter, too
- pg 7: Though I don’t think it would hurt to tone it down from time to time <-- I continue to not care for C
- pg 9: You can nae be serious <-- I'd like a bit longer discussion of the map room before this. I too want to be overwhelmed
- pg 10: If the town is abandoned, why not take armfuls of maps and sell them or something? Weird to just walk away
- pg 11: that Sh-y <-- what are we in? Third omniscient?
- pg 11: when I say you really don’t understand my situation <-- it's like C actively does not want me to like him
- pg 11-12: I think the narrative would move better if this dialogue got cut back through here. The narrative was really moving until the extensive talking in the map room
- pg 12: That’s the strangest timing for advice I’ve ever received.” <-- and the most condescending
- pg 12: But just one map, alright <-- A) why is she asking permission? Neither of these men outrank her and B.) no one lives there so RAID THE PLACE
- pg 15: Captain, he’s too injured to take place in a battle <-- but can still go adventuring? Ehhh. Inconsistent injuries
- pg 15: crossing her arms over her chest <-- why is she acting like the child they keep treating her as? She was competent in the first chapter
- pg 16: fixed-position forward guns you see <- while I am interested in the world right now, I don't feel any threat from this ship or the upcoming battle because I don't care for C and have no real feel for his motivations, or the global arc of the story
- cute end line
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Overall
This is loads better than the last version, for sure. The gothic tone has dropped away as well and it's coming across as more standard European fantasy fare, but still relying almost entirely on tropes. The spoon part was good but we need still more uniqueness to really get this narrative moving, and we still need a global arc as well (see below).
1. Is there more tension in this version? ie. Do you feel more imminent danger?There is more, but still not enough to drive the chapter. I need global stakes still.2. Do you get a better sense of Aurelius? Does he feel like more of an MC?I do, but only in that he seems to be a stock character from a stock European fantasy book3. How's the dialogue?Better! We have lost the gothic feel. It's still stilted and cliched in places, but better!4. Do you think this is an improvement from the last version?
YES. And nicely done on that. Revision is not easy. I don't care for how much time he spends in his cell, but at least I get a feel for his desperation now.As I go
- your first sentence is not a great hook. I'd suggest opening each chapter with a strong, catchy sentence to make the reader want to keep reading
- I laughed at the training in the cell. We've moved from gothic atmosphere to a Rocky movie!
- pg 2: lot of redundancy on the word 'pain' in this page
- I will say that this time around, I have a much better sense of how long he has been imprisoned
- pg 2: The hatred he felt towards the guard and the Count inspired him to live on and struggle against hopelessness. He would find a way out, he would find his family, and he would have his justice. <-- this is very shallow motivation, and very tropey. It reads like a comic book for very young children. I want my protagonist to be more complex than this, and he needs more motivation than just blanket revenge to drive the narrative.
In books, there are generally two arcs going on at any given time- the global arc, and the personal arc. The global arc is the narrative, the main story that needs to be resolved. The personal arc is the arc of each character, which can be purely emotional, action, or otherwise. Right now we have a personal arc but no global arc, which makes the story seem small and incomplete
- pg 3: Could it be that someone used a spoon to slowly scrape away the stone <-- if the stone was soft enough to be scraped with a spoon, it should have also just crumbled by being punched. This prison sounds very easy to escape from
- pg 4: timing wise, this is a lot better.
- pg 6: why did the count keep him there for that length of time if he never thought the kid would bow to his will????
- pg 6: He would hone that spoon into as sharp of a blade as he possibly could. <-- ah, okay. This plot point makes sense now. I rescind my earlier grumblings
- pg 7: was innocent of any crime, <-- why would this matter? The count is clearly evil so why would the kid think he would care about the law
- pg 8: Saint Gabriel <-- so this isn't other world fantasy, it's Western European post-Christianity fantasy?
- pg 8: span violently <-- assuming you mean 'spun' here
- his escape didn't have any really particularly clever elements to it. I'd have liked to have seen a bit more plot involved before he got away
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Nothing really to comment on with this. Hoping the emotional arc works and the plot seems to be moving forward at a reasonable clip.
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2 hours ago, julienreel said:
Is it too late for me to sneak in for Monday? I just finished revising.
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Edits! I've more clearly described O's injuries, and now she's a bit more dazed as they are walking (with increasing pain as they go). Have specifically noted they are inside a settlement on the last remaining planet in the system. I've also hung a lantern on O's lack of fear, generally:
SpoilerHer vision turned spotty again. Ori decided against pressing further. The noise, the rush of bodies, the smell of slowly-rotting plant matter, increased the farther down the hall they went. She felt like a titha staring down a ravine edge, fighting both the desire to return to the herd, and the thrill of vertigo. But Bell had her, and they were going to see a doctor, so there wasn’t really a reason to be afraid. The Jun System, thus far, seemed mostly bluster.
Which should lead better then into the next few chapters where she slowly realizes things are very bad.
Thank you all so much for the feedback! I'm glad O is coming across well!
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Up for Monday as well, pending space
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Overall
Again, easy, clean writing and smooth characters. I think my only real gripe is this didn't seem to advanced the plot at all. It mostly seemed to rehash the first chapter, with a touch of info dump about the science of flowers. I didn't mind any of the scenes, but I wanted at least a bit of plot progression, which this did not seem to have.
As I go
- pg 1: now that I know he was acting his part and never loved me. <-- from the last chapter it was clear that E was actually a very thoughtful person. This makes our MC seem very shallow and thereby not very sympathetic
- pg 2: I'm still unsure where this story is going. The nightmare seems like a more natural start to the chapter arc than rehashing the last chapter
- pg 6: competitive sport than a practical fighting style <-- not sure I agree with this. It's just as competitive a fighting style as any martial art, I'd say.
- pg 6: And now his close friend is the person who betrayed the person he’s supposed to love. <-- huh?
- pg 7: A-A-ron. I <-- since the name is spelled with an 'E' I don't get this
- ah wait, I see, it's addressed later
- pg 9: leave me crushed, but I can’t get the sparkling petals out of my mind. They look like something out of a fantasy world. <-- this is the first hint of a plot in nine pages
- pg 12: on one with weird genetics <-- even talking to a high schooler, I would not say 'weird genetics.' There has to be a more accurate adjective to use
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Overall
Things are moving forward, which is nice. But it still just reads like a trope book, but it's now clear you aren't leaning into them. Hence, I don't have much motivation to keep reading because I know what happens. With that, there is no tension.
Same issues with stilted dialogue and two-dimensional characters as before. You might try reading your text out loud. How does it sound to your ears? Is that the way you would speak?
For your other question, no, I'm not invested in our MC because he appears to be the lead in a dime store novel. I've not yet had any sense that he is in danger, especially with how this chapter ended with them getting to escape the town with really no effort at all.
Again, I think you'd be best served if you turned this into a silly trope book. Lean into the tropes you're using. Add more. Make it borderline ridiculous so we enjoy it for the tropes, not in spite of them.
As I go:
- This...still reads like you're trying to riff old trope books. The writing is so lean and the characters sort of cardboard cutouts. There's a richness missing to the storytelling that would let this stand on its own. Or you could lean into the trope.
- pg 3: My skin can become as hard as stone <-- wait what now? Out of nowhere
- pg 3: well that was a very easy escape. Very convenient the digging was already done. There's no real tension here because thus far everything has been easy, or trope-silly
- pg 6: being caught by a stone man would be just as bone breaking as falling onto the ground. Possibly moreso, if there is grass
- pg 6: and both men suffered <-- isn't one of them a boy? Because everyone certainly treats him like one, and his voice is juvenile
- pg 8: they're running around outside now but I have no feel for the greater world at all. I think a lot of that richness I mentioned before is just general lack of world building. What does their town look like? Who rules it? Is there magic? Is it like 1800s, or 2045?
- pg 8: He felt trapped and useless. His entire family was at the mercy of Count Cri and there was nothing he could do about it. <-- I'd much rather get this through his actions and impatience than be told about it
- pg 9: I sense any risk at all to my comfortable life, I’ll abandon you <-- this whole dialogue chain just seems plot convenient. The guy helping them is barely two dimensional and speaks like someone, again, mocking a trope
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This used to be the second half of chapter 5, which I cut in half due to length. Edits to chapter 5 more clearly established Ori’s fear arc, starting with her not really being afraid because violence just doesn’t happen in the C. Systems, to realizing she actually might die. And then confusion over Bell showing up. This chapter picks up right from there, and should be an arc with Ori sucking up her pride to accept help, establishing the start of a romance line, and then beating Ori over the head with the plot by the end.
The longer arc here should be Ori coming to terms with not being able to really rescue Ata, or things continually getting in her way. This should start establishing that though whether it does so well remains to be seen.
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On 3/8/2021 at 9:00 AM, karamel said:
‘Hey,’ Or said… it came out sounding like a bad pick up line” made me think of this
That is 100% what I was thinking of when I wrote it!
Edits! Everyone brought up much the same thing, that Ori really doesn't ask much about the planes and stuff and focuses on not being shot. I don't want to change that too much but I did hang a lantern on her hyper focus:
Spoiler“But I’m not from Pru!” Also, how could there be more than one? What was a plane? Did she have a massive concussion? Is that why nothing made sense? She decided to focus on things she might actually be able to affect—like saving her own life.
On 3/8/2021 at 10:30 PM, Snakenaps said:Did you ever read the short story Birds or watch the movie? Or did you think to yourself, "You know what, I'm going to make everyone hate birds now."
Never have. Sorry! I just like aliens and creepiness
On 3/8/2021 at 10:30 PM, Snakenaps said:Why, Kais, why.
Because....me?
On 3/9/2021 at 9:47 PM, shatteredsmooth said:When I think about the situation O was in, I feel like the chapter has all the makings of something tense, but I wasn't really feeling the tension. I don't know if it was just what you were going for, but O seemed more annoyed than in danger. Very in denial of the situation. Maybe choosing to pretend she isn't in danger? Something about the emotions and the arc felt a little off. I'm not 100% sure what the arc actually is.
This is 100% what I wanted, because she's from the CS, where danger and death just don't happen, so she isn't going to take it seriously. However how to hang a lantern on that so the readers know why is a whole different thing. I added this early on:
SpoilerShe should have been afraid. She should have been more afraid. And she was afraid, but a lifetime in the absolute peace of the CS buffered those emotions down to nubbins. Her brain kept repeating, in her grandmother’s voice, You’re scared over nothing. The Ris-s got rid of crime. No one murders, or steals, or curses. Now close your eyes and go to sleep.
On 3/10/2021 at 3:31 PM, Ace of Hearts said:Her being in denial also made it hard for me to see any sort of emotional arc this chapter had.
Yup. Along with the above, I've added in her slow realization that she is in real danger, through lines like:
SpoilerThey’d stolen her ship. Broken her ship. Broken her. This…these things didn’t happen.
On 3/10/2021 at 3:31 PM, Ace of Hearts said:In general I don't like it when people are referred to as "it." Not that there's anything wrong with it from a craft standpoint but now I'm wondering if the story is going to keep making me feel weird like this
This is an interesting line to walk. I have three different sets of nonbinary pronouns in this series, but 'it' has a very important role in terms of how Ori sees aliens that are not like her (and how the birds see the people from Pru as also not really worthy of being sentients). So, it's used very purposefully, if that helps any.
On 3/11/2021 at 6:21 AM, C_Vallion said:f I could get my hands on some invincible nail polish, I might even bother to paint my nails.
Ori's POV chapters from here on out are at least 25% nail polish jokes
On 3/11/2021 at 4:00 PM, Silk said:Given how common and varied aliens are (beach balls!) I’m surprised that Ori is this weirded out by bird aliens. I suppose this could be a sheltered Ne- thing? But then she seemed to do okay visiting other aliens from around the J system.
Ah, but she's never met the beach balls! She was out of the Systems before they came in. So she's been limited to a few spaceports and then just the bipeds of the CS. But this would take sooooo much backstory to get to that I figured I let it ride, unless it's a major stumbling block?
Thank you all! Good edits, and hopefully they will strengthen the second half of this encounter which is the upcoming week's sub!
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I'd like a slot for Monday as well if there is room.
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Nice to see you on the boards again.
Overall
There's a great story in here, buried in dialogue. I love the air ship, I generally like the characters (the doctor in particular, and the captain, and the AI) and the Arthurian mythos is always fun. I think if you could cut the dialogue down to one conversation in this chapter, with the most vital information that sets us on our quest, it would be a deeply compelling opening chapter. As it stands now, there are too many conversations for a man who can barely walk, and by the third one I was having a hard time concentrating
It's a good start! Trimming will make it much more powerful. And as always, your writing continues to improve, as does your dialogue between characters.
As I go
- pg 2: it's interesting that he sees her as a nurse but she is a doctor. This does a lot of character building with very little work
- pg 5: I was pretty on board until C says 'this is nothing' as he is trying to stand. He's a little too 'man' right now, a little too trope. I'd like just a little something to set him apart, since right now he reads like a caricature
- pg 6: that its a racing airship is a very fine hook
- pg 8: getting antsy. Looking for the greater world stakes and plot about now, or more specifics on C's personal motivation other than having failed a woman
- pg 10: the dialogue is getting stilted through here and you are losing voice. I'm having a hard time telling the captain from C
- pg 11: I'd rather they'd gotten to the spear a few pages up. I think we could manage without a few of the dialogue pages to get right to the spear
- pg 15: too much talking. I need something to happen, either action wise or the plot moving forward
- pg 17: if C is that sick/in pain, he's doing a LOT of talking. How is he keeping all this going on when he can't even walk? Whenever I wake up from surgery and such I can barely hold my own side of a conversation. And this is his third. It stretches believability to me
- pg 20: I know it was likely discussed, but I grew weary of the dialogue and had a hard time focusing. So I'm still not sure why they need this map. Is it to navigate by? Why does C care and doesn't he want his spear?
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Overall
There's great characters here and some nice emotional resonance. I think there are some out of order events in order to get reader buy-in, and there needs to be a more firmly established overarching plot and motivation. The chapter ends without much reason for anyone to read on to the next chapter. I'd like a slightly stronger hook to move me forward to the next part. Otherwise, it was fun!
For your questions, yes, it's clear this is a romance book and it's pretty clear who the love interest is. I didn't have any issues with that. The characters are already pretty three dimensional. I don't think there were any issues with any of that.
As I go
- pg 1: This is all I can hear.
- pg 2: I'm struggling to tell if 'Amma' is a grandparent derivative or a gender neutral parent derivative. I think hanging a lantern on it early would help
- pg 2: is this YA? It's reading like YA
- it's pg 4 before we get the answer to whether Amma is a parent or grandparent
- pg 5: the emotional buy-in happens on page five, when we get the information on 'amma' and the adoption. I'd suggest this come a touch earlier, because all the driving to school stuff was starting to really sag the narrative. I'd be much more likely to enjoy the drive if I had the buy-in first. So maybe a bit or reorganization
- pg 5: grass in Oregon in September? Not native grass. it's all well dead...unless the school is watering the lawn I suppose. Ah, or they could be eastern Oregon I suppose
- pg 7: the dialogue is fine and very appropriate for the age but I'm starting to drift again. I want some hint of plot at this stage, or at least narrative direction
- pg 8: if the flower petals and magic are the plot, I think they should be sprinkled in a lot earlier. Like they could drive past the pond and the MC could think about them early on, or have the mom mention them, etc.
- pg 11: is there a reason you're using the traditionally (US traditional anyway) female spelling of Erin for a male character? Trans coded?
- pg 14: the boyfriend is coming off very mature here and our MC, not so much. Unsure if this was intended or not
- the end of the chapter doesn't really move me to read on.
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In contrast to the last chapter, this was one long chapter that got cut in half. I haven’t been through it as many times as I’d like but I think it’s fairly cohesive. This stage of the book is still in the ‘everything is going wrong’ area, but it’s also where we start the romance line. L for language, nothing else to tag I don’t think. Thanks!
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I'd like a slot for Monday if there is space.
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Okay, edits have happened! I've taken out almost 1000 words, which I think will help a lot. The front and middle banter has been blocked into one and shorted to about a quarter of what it was. The end banter remains since it looks like that paired well with the tension. We now get to the 'we have to get At first before we go to Pru' by the second page.
I've clarified what an 'eld' is. Thanks to the new readers for pointing out that I had not defined that.
SpoilerSHE IS AN ELD. THE ELD ARE THE RULERS OF AR-M.
I've clarified why Yord and Nick are okay letting her take the lead and not asking too many questions (though now they do ask few more)
Spoiler“Okay,” Nic drawled. “I’m not being very clear and coming off pushy. I’m sorry. Yorn flew us into Risan cutters and had the Mmls torch N-k’s forests. Ata-nt flew us to Ar-um where we also all nearly died. I served on like, six different eld councils when we were still on Ard-m, which, while it didn’t put anyone else’s life in jeopardy, was a bad decision. It’s your turn. I agree. That doesn’t mean you can’t let us help.”
I got rid of all the holo stuff and now they just get a bunch of redacted files and that one holo that half-plays. Sal does tell Nick that Ata gave her codes to the Ard database.
Nick has a good mid-chapter summary for those lost
Spoiler“Right. So, Ard reproduces, which makes sense but also I hate. One of those offspring recently blew up, the other failed to thrive. That about cover it? And we’re going to the blown up one?”
I've added a definition for what an "Aggression Talent' is. Sorry to the new readers. Made that too subtle
Spoiler“Aggression Talent? I believe you’re banned in the Ju-n System since we still allow active weaponry, but that might have been suspended with the current emergency. And yes of course there are survivors. Some were off world and we have them in refugee care but why are you bringing eld here? How? Are you cleared for that? Did you discuss it with the Ap-A council? Pru couldn’t authorize this alone. We’re a system you know, and not all featherless bipeds. And if you didn’t get clearance from the Ap -A you’ll be in violation of Agreement 78.55 that prohibits Ard interference in the Juq-n System. Did you even apply for a visa? If you did, were you honest about the Aggression Talent? We don’t need you telekinetically firing every laser gun in spitting distance just because you can.”
It's my hope that this makes what Sal does with the holo laser gun clear, and also then ties into why the ship gets pulled off course. I also clarified the action:
SpoilerAgain she tried to swipe it away. Again it evaded, turning the tongue into a miniature laser pistol and firing little holo lasers at her with a pew pew sound.
A weapon. Fantastic. As irritatingly categorical as the Ard Talent structure was, the borders were delightfully grey. If it looked like a weapon, or Sal’s mind interpreted it as a weapon, she could manipulate it on a cellulosic level through microkenesis. She grinned, grabbed at the cellulose connection from the holo, through the computer, to whatever database it was connected to, and gave a hard, telekinetic tug.
Thank you all for the help with trimming. With the epigraphs I often forget what information is redundant, and having new readers is critical for knowing what basic world stuff I need to define again. This chapter is much stronger now!
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Overall
Not much to say about the last chapter since it isn't finished, except that it seems exceptionally heavy-handed with gender-based ideology. It makes our main crew seem deeply hypocritical, and I think playing up the assault line more and less about omg they don't believe in enbies will help that a lot.
The first chapter seemed to not advance the plot and I think could easily be removed. I remain overwhelmed by information being told to me when I'd much rather learn it organically and experience it. I need these plot points and world building introduced slowly while I get to know the characters and their motivations. Right now it's all just a great big jumble in my head.
As I go
- the opening paragraph doesn't carry any real tension and I wonder if it is the best place to start from
- pg 3: worldbuilding wise, I am confused as to what is going on. I get that E is a transman. Check. There may or may not be magical body transformations happening. Other than that I'm just super confused and not yet hooked, either
- pg 4: That man had just propositioned <-- it's more powerful if you don't restate it, I think
- pg 5: Murdering people like him<-- I don't see where they threatened trans people. Just women who don't want to sleep with them
- pg 6: I'm unclear how the interaction with E and the men advances the plot. Is it just there to show us how his power works? I'd rather it do so for a plot pivotal moment
- pg 8: I remain deeply confused with the world building. This is post apocalyptic but after that I'm confused. They are talking about how people used to be trash, but from the opening of this chapter it appears people still are so...I'm not clear what has changed or what this conversation is about
- end of first chapter: I... I do not know what the purpose of this chapter was. I can see that E has made a decision, so excellent. But it seems like there was a semi-pointless water element scene that told us men are lecherous, and then discussion about how men used to be lecherous. And then E makes a decision.
I think there's just too much discussion about the world, not enough showing, and too many threads. This is an early chapter and I need it to simply and clearly lay out the world and stakes. I still don't really know what they are, or what E and S are going to be fighting against other than the generic 'the man'. Yes there is the end line about unifying mages (what mages??) and a sisterhood (only have a vague idea what this is) and stopping A from grabbing power, but I don't really know who A is or what the trouble is, as its only been talked about and not really shown
- again, not the most dynamic start to the chapter
- pg 10: issue with the flood situation. This pulls Judaic (and Christian, and a bunch of other religion) flood narratives into play. As Christianity is a dominant religion in the USA and I'm critting from the USA, I was immediately thrown from the narrative upon reading this since it isn't referring to the religious flood, but a later flood. And that makes my brain scream GOD PROMISED TO NEVER FLOOD AGAIN. So then that makes me wonder if old religions were wiped out or if we are saying they never existed and are all wrong or what? It's a place I hang up, so I thought it worth mentioning
- pg 10: Now they had a purpose: try to convince the mages and the sisterhood that they actually wanted the same things. They had things to say. They had to make people listen to them. <-- which is what?
- pg 10: too much telling. I don't care about any of this yet. I want the characters to do something.
- pg 12: this is very... they're going to try to deal with people with strict ideology, but this convo on page twelve makes them look like they have just as strict ideology, just on the other side. Assault of course is not okay but they way they are talking about it they aren't highlighting the assault so much as the 'they believe different things than we do about gender and they are therefore wrong.' Of course nonbinary people exist but this comes across as the author beating us over the head with it, instead of a natural part of the world and world building.
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13 minutes ago, C_Vallion said:
Also, do you know if you'd caught on to the poison possibility your first time reading?
I caught poison the first time, yes, but only by the chapter after it. Not from the first exposure.
14 minutes ago, C_Vallion said:Did this version do any better at portraying motivation than the last version you read? There were some changes to the first couple pages from the last one you'd seen. Still definitely not where it needs to be, but is it at least moving in the right direction? Or is there no noticeable difference between the two?
It's a much cleaner intro and I understand what is going on. But I still don't have clear, larger book goals or stakes for her. Not ones that really feel like they could carry a book, anyway. It is getting better, but now our MC needs to really expand her world, needs, and emotions to be book-worthy.
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4/12/21 - RedBlue - Constance Wood Stove ch3 - (2208 words)
in Reading Excuses
Posted
Overall
Same issues from before, I'm afraid. Diluted character emotions, confusing world rules, no global motivations. We have growing personal motivations, but they're still murky. Also the lack of chapters is not helping any of this. By this far in I should be invested in either the characters or the world (preferably both) but I feel like I barely have a foothold on anything. In the next chapter if you could even just amp the emotional reactions of the characters, I think that would help a lot. As a former REer used to say, emote for the cheap seats!
As I go
- pg 1: can remember a time when it was too big, drowning <-- confused. I thought the kids weren't aging? I still have a lot of confusion over world building in this book and how the town works in general
- pg 1: how is no one even remotely concerned about a talking bird???
- pg 4: but what is out there, beyond the cursed land, <-- even hanging a lantern on it, this really should have been one of her first questions. Our lead does not seem to have any sense of wonder
- pg 5: why are they just now breaking into this barn? What has kept them from it in the past? I am so confused as to motivations. It feels like everyone in this story just woke up when the story started and did not exist before then. And they're still on drugs so their reactions are all cottoned and muted
- pg 7: what they do and do not know about the outside world (like what an airplane is) is very plot convenient. I think the rules for this world need to be laid out early on and be very concrete
- again, this really needs to be in chapters so it has arcs. It is so hard to get a foothold without arcs