StormWrath

If their power source was limitless then they never could have died as the Stormlight will quickly and efficiently heal any wound, as we know, that hasn't been the case and heralds have died many times before.

I would hardly call pre-2006 the dark ages of fantasy, we still had ASOIAF, Wheel of time, Farseer Trilogy et cetera I was also at age 15 when i had the ability to read and understand books like ASOIAF or SA. I can't imagine reading SA at 12, it would thesame for me as trying to read Chinese poetry written in Mandarin

This is the most important post on this thread, I think Brandon has written himself into a corner where he cannot provide a satisfying reason for the recreance, I saw a poster warning about this some months ago. Seriously if the KR thought Surgebinding would destroy Roshar then they should just stop practicing it and never draw Stormlight or ask the spren to cut off the bond since they're able to do that as syl suggested. The reason for the recreance is very underwhelming, I thought it must be some super catastrophic reason that would make all but one order abandon their oaths and kill their best friends. There's not even opposition from some members of the other orders, ALL of them agreed to betray their vows.

We know that each order has some unique ability that only they have from the combination of their surges, well it seems the windrunners unique ability is having squires, in my opinion that sounds boring as I expected it to be an ability related to power or making something interesting especially given how the Windrunners second surge of Adhesion isn't very useful I was rather hoping that the combination of windrunners surges will create something powerful and strong that will compensate for the weakness of Adhesion. Adhesion offcourse is one of the weakest surges especially when using it to fight other Surgebinder or Voidbringers, the Skybreakers have Division (the surge of destruction and decay) in addition to gravitation for God's sake. So back to the side effect of combining powers I was expecting something more related to individual power for example there are blatant hints in the books that combining the surges of Dustbringers which are Abrasion and Division can create fire, it also seems that a combination of Truthwatchers surges is what allows them to see the future as there isn't any surge that will simply allow you to see the future, so I was expecting something along these lines for the Windrunners as well and simply having squires sounds boring and not as cool as having another important Surgebinding ability. And here's the WoB that indicates that the side effects of windrunners powers is really just having squires.

I agree that Adhesion is mostly useless especially against Radiants. The Skybreakers have the signature surge of the Windrunners aka Gravitation but also have a far more destructive second surge than Windrunners', the surge of destruction and decay, they're not named skyBREAKERS for no reason.

Offcourse Nalan's minions aren't radiants,no one said they were,and I don't think Szeth is just going to be one of his minions,that seems cheap,I mean he gave him nightblood! And he's now personally training him,I think he's grooming him for something big. As to him becoming a skybreaker I've been thinking maybe if the herald of an order intervenes and vouch for szeth to the highspren maybe they'll form a bond with him - this is just my opinion off course,we know nothing of this sort yet,buy just maybe. I understand what you mean when you are trying to show how Szeth broke some laws and I really don't have answers for them,BUT I'll stick with the belief that if the things that szeth did before will not allow him to join the skybreakers then there's no way the order's patron will approach and invite Szeth to the order,Nale could've stopped Szeth anytime he wanted,he knew that Szeth had an jezrien's honorblade,he allowed Szeth to kill gavilar because he was supposedly working to bring back voidbringers amd parshendi gods,and this is my evidence “I don’t like this. What we’ve done was wrong. That creature carries my lord’s own Blade. We shouldn’t have let him keep it. He—” The two passed through the intersection ahead of Jasnah. They were the ambassadors from the West, including the Azish man with the white birthmark on his cheek. Or was it a scar? The shorter of the two men—he could have been Alethi—cut off when he noticed Jasnah. He let out a squeak, then hurried on his way." This is nale and another herald talking about the impending assassination of gavilar,this implies that nale may even have taken a part in Szeth acquiring his honorblade,in short SZETH OBEYS THE LAW AS HE SEES IT. I'll leave you with a quote from Nale "You, Szeth," the man said, "worship order, do you not You follow the laws of your society to perfection. This attracted me, though I worry that emotion has clouded your ability to discern. Your ability to... judge."

Well,that certainly makes things a lot more complicated. Yes szeth broke one law and upheld another and it is an impossibility to obey all of those laws together,for example where in jah keved would he get the warrant to kill the king of jah keved?, it'd be interesting to see what a real skybreaker will do in this situation.....but alas! We do know what the leader of the skybreakers themselves thinks of this difficult situation,Nale commended Szeth and said he has never found any person more WORTHY of the skybreakers than Szeth. Nale kills rogue surgebinders,szeth was a surgebinder and kind of a rogue,why didn't Nale hunt him down? It seems to me he doesn't disapprove of szeth actions,Nalan was at the feast when Szeth killed Gavilar,he could easily have intervened and stopped Szeth but he didn't,which is saying a lot.I think I have answered the skybreaker dilemma,and despite what you mention,the skybreakers would still accept szeth,and you said Nale tries to ensure he has the proper warrant before killing someone,I disagree,as I mentioned above he didn't have a warrant to kill Ym and God knows how many other surgebinders that man has executed unlawfully.

Yeah,that's entirely possible,I just feel that most of the fandom (including me) interpret that as having happened long ago and so I tend to agree with it more,BTW you're the first person I have seen who interpreted this passage as you did.

If it was kaladin why would she say 'men' ? And notice that she said men not a man,which indicates she might even have bonded with multiple knights (at differnt times off course) Why does kaladin sounds so surprised if it was him? No I'm pretty sure the way she said it indicated that it must have been a long time ago.

Nah......I don't think so,nightblood wasn't made by the almighty it was made by vasher,its not even from roshar,consider nightblood as a shardblade,even Nale mentions as much,now,if someone has a shardblade he can still bond a spren,renarin has a shardblade and he still bonded with a spren just fine as did dalinar. And Mr. Sanderson said a person can dual wield a shardblade,so it's possible Szeth will dual wield both nightblood and a sprenblade. Just saying

I'm sure now that he no longer has a blade he'll get a nahel bond with a highsprenYeah I'm pretty sure assassination is also illegal in the country that Nale killed Ym,he showed no evidence or proof to having been given the go ahead by the authorities in that country to kill Ym like he did with lift in Azir,and even if assassination is illegal in the countries that szeth committed his many slaughters he was still following the law,according to the shin he's a truthless and must do as his master demands without asking for an explanation,that is also following the law,remember szeth didn't want to kill all those people he massacred,he didn't do it for sport,he did it because he was forced to as per the laws of the shin. I call that perfect skybreaker mentality

She said she had helped men kill before,who would she help kill if he wasn't a KR? “I hate it,” she said, growing more translucent. “But I’ve helped men kill before.” Kaladin froze on the ladder. “What?” “It’s true,” she said. “I can remember it, just faintly.” “How?” “I don’t know.” She grew paler. “I don’t want to talk about it. But it was right to do. I feel it.”

Granted. You will live for the rest of your life in shadesmar and you will never be able to get out of it. I wish to be a knight radiant with access to all of the 10 surges of surgebinding

1. Helaran was not a surgebinder,his shardade had a gemstone on it,now if his blade was a live spren blade why would he need to bond it? You simply got the wrong meaning to what Mr T said2. No spren would allow helaran to perform the wanton slaughter he committed on the battlefield,he killed soldiers that were no threat to him and didn't get in his way ie cenn,dallet and the others with them,also if he were a surgebinder why on earth would he go into a battlefield without taking in stormlight? Plus he didn't perform any surgebinding there. 3. You don't kill a spren by killing the knight he's bonded to,for example syl was most likely bonded to a KR long ago,and she's still alive and just fine

So I was wondering why szeth didn't become a skybreaker a long time ago,and I must say I'm surprised even baffled that szeth hasn't yet bonded or at least attracted a highspren,given how that guy sticks with the law to the very end,hell even the order's patron was attracted to szeth and even invited him to the order,I know some people will object that no spren will choose szeth because some of the things that he does are evil even kaladin mentioned it,but I don't think the highspren will worry about that,skybreakers are all about following the law no matter what,their second ideal is "I will put the law before all else." And to szeth he is just following the laws of the shin. Skybreakers don't care if their actions seem evil or not right,if you break the law they will execute you without any hesitancy and with no mercy,look at how Nale for example executed ym because he unwittingly played a part in the poisoning and death of a person or how he wanted to execute lift (who's a child) for petty stealing,so I doubt skybreakers and highspren will bother much about szeth previous killings and assassinations because he was technically following the law Why do you think he doesn't have a spren? Or is that he has already attracted a spren but that the spren hasn't revealed itself to him yet? Like how syl was following kaladin since when he was in amaram's army but never revealed herself to him until he later became a slave in the wagon,personally I do think in my opinion that even if szeth doesn't have a spren now,he'll eventually attract one now that he has been officially invited to the order.

Well that means I'm right,her eyes are not getting any lighter because they're already light,but Brandon is not saying for sure whether her eyes are going to change color or not which indicates that he's hiding something for later Not all the heroes are getting blue eyes,ONLY windrunners get blue eyes,so far we have only seen one windrunner (kaladin), so the other heroes that get to become radiants will possibly have the color of their orders.

Well that's entirely possible,but I don't think that any radiant could pass on his pale radiant eye color to his descendants,because as I have mentioned before,a radiant's eye color does not permanently becomes a different color,if that were the case then perhaps I would agree,plus if radiants did pass on their eye color to their descendants and today we'll have a bunch of people on roshar with red eyes,amber eyes,pink eyes and other weird color,but so far we have not seen a single light eyed person with such eye colors,the only colors that have been mentioned are blue,yellow,green,violet,tan and grey(?). I'm pretty positive that there were light eyed people even before the knight radiant,maybe they were few then,and that a radiant cannot pass on his eye color,its not like it becomes part of your genes right?

I was actually referring to the multiple radiants we have seen in dalinar's KR visions. On the subject of jasnah,dalinar and renarin's eyes changing to that of their orders; Radiants eye colour only changes when they summon their blade or ingest stormlight,if they don't do either of that for a long time then their eye color will return back to being whatever color they initially were,now,so far we have not seen jasnah or renarin ingest stormlight or summon their radiant blades,we have only seen dalinar ingests stormlight once (after the stormfather correspondence) and no other character present mentioned that his eyes changed color,just like shallan never tells us that she lightweaves (possibly subconsciously) her eyes to be blue whenever she ingests stormlight,or it may be that the characters present didn't easily notice because dalinar's eyes are already light,this will be cleared up eventually,but I have a strong feeling that every radiant's eye color will change to that of their order just for the simple reason that every single radiant we saw in dalinar's vision had the eyes of their order. On a side note It may be that a person's eye color will change only after they have reached at least the third oath of their order,kaladin's eye colour became blue only after he said the third oath,on the occasions that we have seen his eyes change to blue before saying the third oath,it may be that,that blue is only because of the stormlight he ingests and his eyes never did stay blue after his stormlight ran out at those times.

"why would Nalan hunt Surgebinders since they existed before without triggering Desolation?" One of the reasons the parshendi changed to stormform and summoned the everstorm was because they saw kaladin fighting with stormlight which would imply that spren have started bonding with humans again,so they thought they needed to do whatever necessary (even transforming to stormform) to defeat the alethi before they started bringing in surgebinders to the field,in which case the parshendi will horribly be at a disadvantage. Well,you see,nalan couldn't just come out of hiding and start telling people to stop bonding with spren,don't forget that this was after the shattering of the oathpact and the heralds were living a life of hiding and declaring themselves as heralds plus that guilt that they had for lying to the people that they had won and that there wouldn't be any more desolations,doing that will compromise the other heralds preferable life of living anonymously,and if they come out people might start worshiping them and I don't think the other heralds will like that giving that they never declared themselves for the past 4500 years.

That's why I said brandon 'might' have said,I myself do not know of the WoB,can you quote the WoB? Maybe the questioner asked whether her eyes will lighten so Brandon said they won't because they're already light,what I'm saying is that her eyes will change to pink/red (color of lightweavers)Don't forget that every single radiant we have seen so far has the eye color of their order,you can't possibly assume that all the radiants we have seen originally had dark eyes hence their eye color automatically corresponds to the color of their orders,we might have seen radiants who had light eyes even before they became KR and their eye color still became that of their order.

They have to change colors,they must change colors,its not about being light eyed or dark eyed,if you become a radiant it doesn't just lighten your eye color,the color of your eyes must change to the color of the order you are in,let me give you an example in kaladin,his normal eye color is dark brown so when he became a radiant why didn't his eyes lighten to light brown or tan? Instead they became blue which is the color of the order of windrunners likewise shallan's eye color must be pink/red if she ingests stormlight or summon her blade. Brandon might have said that the change in shallan's eye color is not easily noticed because her eyes are already light,not that her eyes won't change color because they're light.

I think its very unlikely that shallan's mother would want to kill shallan because of her surgebinding,if she wants to kill surgebinders (as nalan wants) then why not kill herself first as you mentioned she's a skybreaker? I think she must have had a very twisted belief that shallan is potentially a voidbringer due to her red eyes and weird spren (pattern),plus if shallan's mother is a skybreaker then she would've used her shardblade to kill shallan's father when he tried to stop her,she could also have killed shallan in her sleep with the blade.

Good points,I almost forgot about that,giving that I even mentioned it in the OP,but why is brandon not giving us this simple info outright? He could've even mentioned that its reason shallan's mother wanted to kill her, maybe he's planning to inform us in future books

So I was doing a re-read of WoR and came across the lopen's pov when he successfully ingests stormlight "The Lopen sucked in light. It happened in an eyeblink, and then there he sat, Stormlight streaming from his skin. "Ha!" He shouted, leaping to his feet. "Ha! Hey, Chilinko, come back here. I need to stick you to the wall!" So,the lopen wanted to stick chilinko to the wall which is a full lashing,so my question is can squires use lashings? I was under the impression that squires can only ingests stormlight and cannot get any of the two surges a full KR gets or is it possible that squires can get one of the surges of the KR they are squiring for? But if so how did the lopen knew he would get access to adhesion (full lashing) and also if the squires get a single surge from the KR they are serving then that means that a squire that gets the surge of gravitation (basic lashing and reverse lashing) would be almost as powerful as a full windrunner, they can also fly and do anything a windrunner can except sticking objects to places.