splinters

The combination of the WoB on Kelsier taking over the Ghost bloods and the fact that Kelsier is really full of himself, wants to gain power, and hates those who abuse their power (nobleman) makes me think that the Ghostbloods are potentially about tearing down the powerful in Roshar (lighteyes, shard bearers, etc.) and about taking up as much power for themselves as possible. But maybe they are more ambitious and are aiming at usurping splinters (like the unmade), and maybe even abusive shards (like Odium). Or maybe they just want immortality. There is also a WOB somewhere about Kelsier being a villian if he were in a different time or place (can’t find it right now). I think that is another clue. I’m not sure I can quite put it all together though. I don’t think we have enough information yet.

Does this mean that Nightblood gets to keep most of the investiture it eats? I was under the impression that 1000 breaths was a lot, but not when compared to shards. If nightblood gets to keep some of the investiture it gathers and only consumes some to stay alive (like a returned), then it sure would be powerful (especially after being supercharged from something like a perpendicularity).

In OB it does appear that he is satiated when Dalinar opens up Honor's perpendicularity, but sadly he didn't sound drunk when talking to Lift.

It does appear to take some extra effort or effort to kill/destroy more heavily invested beings (the thundeclast doesn't just pop like the fused do ch. 117 and 118), and I thought Nightblood just eats the investiture of its wielder and that enables it to kill/destroy.

The end of OB brings to the forefront of my mind the question: How powerful is Nightblood? Considering that it is being wielded against the fused and even a thunderclast and that it instantly turns them into smoke, this leads to the conclusion that maybe Nightblood can even be used on the Unmade and maybe even a shard (I doubt this is possible as it would be hard to pin down an exact physical location of a shard). If Nightblood can destroy the unmade, then that sure sounds like a better alternative than trapping them in a flawless gemstone. Evidence supporting the idea that Nightblood can destroy the Unmade: 1. Nightblood can destroy splinters. He does this when he kills Returned in Warbreaker (the Returned are splinters, but they don't appear to have the same level of investment as the Unmade). 2. Nightblood easily destroys a Thunderclast (which may not be a splinter, but is at least heavily invested). 3. Nightblood destroys on all three realms (physical, cognitive, spiritual). 4. Resisting Nightblood's directives seems to be at least as hard as resisting the unmade (only Szeth and Vasher have proven able to resist Nightblood and only Shallan and Dalinar have successfully resisted the unmade). This seems to mean they are at least near the same power level. One of the questions this creates for me, is if Nightblood uses up more investiture while destroying something more heavily invested than it does destroying other things, or if only eats investiture at a steady rate.

I imagine any similarities between the unmade and Nightblood are just side effects of them being so heavily invested. I do wonder if Nightblood's sense of evil is good enough to drive one of the unmade to destroy itself, or if it is powerful enough to destroy an unmade at all.

I'm going to have to agree with those siding against the OP here. The only thing I think is close to being a problem would be Hoid, but even at this point his motives and magic appear to be clearer to me than many other "old magician" archetypes from most fantasy books (I still don't 100% understand Gandalf, Merlin (from nearly any of the 100's of books on him), Elodin (Name of the Wind), or even Dumbledore). Part of what makes Hoid so interesting is the mystery behind him, and I think that mystery actually gets more confusing for those of us who know the most about him (like why does he play therapist for Shallan and Kal when we have WoB stating that Hoid is not a nice guy). Even thought I'm dying to know more about Hoid, I don't think knowledge about him is essential at this point. And in reality, I'm just happy to know that at some point we will understand him better (unlike all the other mysteries so many authors leave unanswered). I also don't think we know enough about Hoid's constraints or objectives to know why he doesn't appear to be more active in his fight against Odium (we also don't know enough about Odium to understand how hard Hoid has to try to avoid detection by Odium). Hence, I don't hold it against Brandon or Hoid that Hoid isn't more actively fighting I think that it is unlikely that anyone would question Nightblood or Azure and her weapon too closely (either as a reader or character). The surgebinding, voidbringing, the old magic, Aimians, spren in general, oathgates, the Unmade, etc. are examples of things that readers and characters don't really understand. It is only if you are Cosmere-aware that some of us understand that some things aren't native to Roshar.

@rjl, good point. I forgot that he would have independent access to stormlight before his 3rd ideal.

This theory seems the one most likely to be correct to me. It is also possible that Honor knew he would eventually succumb to Odium and that he plotted his own demise with Cultivation. This seems to be in line with WoB about Cultivation being close to the death of Honor. She would have learned so much from Honor’s death by observing Odium. This would also (potentially) give her some breathing room from Odium as he may not consider her to be a threat and enable her to subtly undermine Odium (like with Lift, Dalinar, and somehow with Mr. T—I think we are missing something with what his true intentions and plans are).

So, he did swear the third ideal. During the battle the Skybreakers were close enough for his ability to work.

I tend to think there is a simpler explanation. Odium isn’t omniscient and can’t see everything going on. He can probably see directly through his pawns and wherever his attention is focused, but he doesn’t see things he isn’t paying attention to. He can’t even see exactly what his unmade are doing all the time. Otherwise he would know of Sja-Anat’s intent to betray him (unless that isn’t real). I think he is able to see even less because of something Honor did when he bound Odium to the Roshar system. In addition, I think Cultivation has found how to make most of her moves invisible to him (how else would he not have noticed Lift in the vision he visited Dalinar in?). The idea that the truthwatchers have been corrupted for a long time is intruiging, but then what do you make of the truthwatcher that Lift meet in Edgedancer ( the orphanage leader—sorry I forgot her name). Jasnah even got confirmation that that woman’s spren wasn't corrupted and that it looked normal.

She was only there with her mind, but that is still enough to be dangerous for her. Only elsecallers can bring their body and mind into Shadesmar. It is a bit confusing in the descriptions. But I think that is more because Shallan doesn’t understand what is happening than because there is a discontinuity error.

@Angsos and @Blacksmithki, thanks! I’ll have to read that.

I finished OB on Sunday, but it took me a few days before I was able to get here. I'm a periodic lurker and very rarely post, but this book got me pretty excited. Initial reactions: Dalinar's backstory leading up to him being confronted by Odium was heart-wrenching. I really thought for a second that Dalinar would become an incredibly powerful and evil Blackthorn--maybe even bond the thrill unmade (don't remember its actual name off the top of my head). I had some serious heart palpitations during this scene, and it didn't help that my son was having a minor surgery at the time. His first battles gave me the chills--especially when he was about to kill Gavilar and when he chased down that archer. When he showed himself to be a horribly neglectful father, it made me sick (especially since I was wondering if that had lead Renarin to bonding an Odium spren). Also, his excommunication scene was pretty powerful to me too. Teft's story was really heart-wrenching. It is too bad that becoming a KR doesn't help with psychological issues (I wonder why the bond doesn't help? I mean we do know that at least a large portion of psychological issues are heavily related to chemical imbalances in the brain. Szeth and Nale both are experiencing symptoms that commonly occur to people leaving cults (anyone else here watch the path?). Having grown up in a fairly controlling religion, I totally understand why neither of them trusts their own judgment and why it would be easier to simply obey _____. Nale reason for Odium makes sense with the whole divine mandate from conquest argument, but it is still stupid. And although I understand why Szeth doesn't (thank you Nightblood!), I think the biggest plot hole was why he chose to follow Dalinar, and why nobody seemed to have a problem with the assassin in white as head body guard of Dalinar. The best reason I can think of is because his death seemed so important to Mr. T and because of the way he fought in WoR. Lift+Szeth+Nightblood=best threesome in any Sanderson book yet. Does anyone else think it is crazy cool how Lift was able to hack Dalinar's visions and that she was able to make it through the Thrill to Dalinar without any issues? I wonder what her exact relationship with the cognitive/spiritual realm(s) is/are. I really liked where the plot took Kal. I think it was a big deal for him to learn to be confident in himself. I mean, he was acting like and storming hanging out with lighteyes! That's a big deal! I'm also happy that Brandon didn't push him into swearing his next ideals... I really didn't feel like he was quite ready yet. I also don't think that his 4th ideal is quite as straightforward as "I accept that I can't save everyone, because I'm not a god." Shallan was wonderful in much of this book. She continues to be one of the most interesting characters to me. I loved her development in the first half of the book and her in the battle scene. I really missed her banter with pattern in the last half of the book though. I am also unsurprised that she decided to go with Adolin. Although, I personally think all three of them should just get together. I mean Shallan could handle it, Adolin seems a bit gay/bi, and Kal could use a little extra love. But I think something like that would be a bit of a stretch for Brandon. Really glad he included a gay couple in this book and that it isn't a big deal (even though it is really sad that one of them dies). I really didn't see much development from Adolin, other than getting to know just how obsessive he is about his clothing. I mean he is a high prince and he knows how to sew? I was also happy to see his relationship with his shardblade/spren grow. I'm hoping that he becomes a cousin to a KR and not a KR. It would make for a richer world in my opinion. I loved all of the cosmere stuff. I can't believe that we got to interact with characters from so many worlds and magic systems in one book. And props to hoid for gathering up that cryptic spren. It seems to me that he would fit in the best as a lightweaver as he seems to be very self-aware, and already has abilities very similar to that of light-weaving. It is also the least limiting of the orders (that we know of), and if anyone can figure out how to travel out-of-world with a spren, it would be him. I also liked his interactions with Shallan. It seems to me that if Shallan were millennia old, then she would be like him. Jasnah-F&ck! She is totally the most badass character in these books. Kal and Dalinar may be warriors, but she just downed so many people without even trying. As a scientifically minded atheist/show me the proof type of person, she really stands out to me and I wish there were more of her in these books. Some small things that I want to learn a lot more about: Szeth training with all the surges. What is Aether, and how did the washer woman get it out of clothing. The island of Aimia Perfect gemstones that are common in the cognitive realm. The fact that rock and Lopen are part parshendi (how does that even work?? They doesn't have gemhearts do they?) Also I want to hightlight how cool it is that Brandon is so inclusive as a writer and also remarkably progressive. He included: A gay couple, multiple people breaking gender norms, heretics, atheists, Renarin (who is on the spectrum), multiple people without limbs, addiction, paralyzed people, etc. I think these types of things are too commonly overlooked by authors. It really adds to his world building.

Maybe the Kandra just aren't as good at keeping up with the dialect changes because they don't keep up with the frequent changes to dialects. The only problem I have with this, is that Paalm was on the front lines with TLR and with Harmony. I'm sure this required her to be more than just a nobleman, and she would be the most capable Kandra. Perhaps this is just because Wayne collects accents at a level that Kandra can't match.

Brandon always manages to fool me! I could not have guessed the way this would have ended or that it would tear at my heart so much. It was a great rollercoaster. My only complaints are: 1. TenSoon didn't seem to fit into things, and his character seemed a bit hollow 2. Harmony should have at least had the courtesy to not make Wax kill. Surely this could have been accomplished some other way. 3. How did I not see that the earring was a hemalurgic spike?? 4. Wayne being better than the most skilled Kandra at accents Some things that I think will prove to be pretty important later on: 1. Learning that there are Kandra scientists that deal with the science of being a Kandra (what have they learned about hemalurgy?) 2. The parallelism of Wax and Sazed (betrayed by god) 3. Wayne and his ability to mimic accents (how is he better than a Kandra? Is this some other type of magic somehow?) 4. Whatever it was that *Lessie* did with the Lord ruler 5. Shard pool 6. Alien

"Just cosmic chance rolling the dice anytime I pass, and always hitting all ones. There seems to be a poetry to it."-Steris Maybe I'm looking too much into it, but could she be a Feruchamist storing luck (becoming unlucky)? Or is there something greater at play here? In some ways being unlucky could be useful sometimes. Is there a chance that Steris has any Terris blood?