VirtuousTraveller

How this man continues to churn out such imaginative stories with rich world building and characters is magic in itself. Brandon, this secret project was outstanding. Thank you for sharing it with us! My main reactions are captured in what Coriniroc said above, and are less about Yumi and the Nightmare Painter and more about this phase of Brandon’s work in general: I 100% agree! That said, I felt the cosmere references were SIGNIFICANTLY better incorporated than they were in The Lost Metal. Seeing how these references were used in Tress and now Yumi, I feel very confident that Brandon has the ability to pepper with finesse - The Lost Metal was rushed and didn’t live up to the years of waiting, to me specifically because of the cosmere reference dumping that made it almost unreadable in places. I haven’t liked Design from the beginning, and while I admit that she was less obnoxious than she in previous entries, I still just can’t stand the unsubtle “I’m outrageous and annoying but it’s silly so LAUGH HA HA!” trope that became more prominent in Wayne, is becoming so in Lift, and was a primary color throughout Frugal Wizard. Hoid likewise has moments where it’s just too much, not because Hoid isn’t a “too much” character (I think we all know he’s absolutely meant to be “that guy”), but when Brandon seems to be trying too hard to make him sound too much. The little asides (not every one) sound like a fan fiction version of who Hoid has been up to this point. At least no one yelled “hot damn!” in this story! Those points out of the way, there’s really nothing to dislike in Yumi - the tragedy was strong, and the hidden backstory as to why Painter didn’t have any friends was well executed. It felt overly emo at points, but that’s the genre this felt like intentionally, and it came through organically. This is a book I’ll reread again in the future for sure!

I know I'm a bit late to the reaction on this (but to be fair, my book only arrived a week or two ago), but some thoughts I didn't see from others here: Mythology - there was a very cosmere-like mythology presented in this story, however this thought is less about the quality of the mythology (it was ok) and more that I appreciated that my mind has now become primed to question myths BECAUSE of Brandon's use of mythology in other stories. I assumed Black Bear was another "upstream" person who somehow came to this dimension at some point in the past (and if Brandon wrote it that way on purpose, congrats you did great - if not, I'd say missed opportunity, but it didn't take away from the story that this wasn't expanded upon). No Memory Trope - as a big fan of Project Hail Mary, I felt A LOT of the spirit of this story was pulled inspiration-wise from this, and I'm really thankful Brandon highlighted that in the afterword. Language - I swear every time the words "Hot Damn!" or "Hell" appeared it felt out of place and it took me out of the flow of the story (I cringe even typing this). These little interjections didn't feel genuine at all, and so it was swearing for the sake of making a character seem tough because they swear (I guess?) Overall not the worst book I've ever read, and I was generally satisfied at the end. I don't think this needs a sequel or a connection to anything else - it stands alone pretty well for what it tries to accomplish!

I had this exact same reaction when I read this. It felt like it was at least alluding to Kalad's Phantoms!

Absolutely 100% agree - elegance is a fantastic way to contrast how I feel Brandon has done this kind of cosmere connection work when it goes well, and in TLM it did not feel elegant.

I love how long this exchange went on until Brandon was finally like, "fans, just let it go. It was a just a comment I made once."

While I think TLM did a less than stellar job articulating Autonomy's motivations and behaviors, I would say that Autonomy wouldn't just unilaterally destroy Scadrial because that would be a violation of the people who live there's autonomy and agency. It would be ok if Autonomy could influence/manipulate the people into destroying themselves. Maybe? Also, was Trell an actual Avatar/splinter in this book, or was it specifically Autonomy/Bavadin that was meddling directly?

Don't get me wrong - yes, I would love to see the eventual crossover epic Marvel Endgame-like cosmere extravaganza. One of Brandon's best writing qualities is his ability to build up a story (or collection of stories) into a grand climax with incredible payoffs (think about how the flashbacks in any of the Stormlight Archive books feed into the building momentum of how each book finally concludes). Knowing that this is what I think makes Brandon so incredible is what made TLM feel off to me. Instead of building up to anything, the cosmere references felt included for...I don't know, fan service maybe? I know there's a connection to all these stories, but TLM in that middle section of the book managed to include references to Mistborn Era 1, Mistborn: Secret History, Elantris, The Emperor's Soul, Warbreaker, White Sand, The Stormlight Archive, the Aethers, Odium, Autonomy, splintering, slivers, Investiture, perpendicularities, Sho Del, and probably some I'm missing. Weaving storylines together is what Brandon does well. I thought Mistborn: Secret History was a fantastic example of Brandon weaving together crossover moments in a way that added to the story. Consider another example (reference to Stormlight Archive coming): My hope is that the eventual crossover will be more like Avengers Endgame (wow look at that it all paid off), and less like Marvel Phase 4 (leaning almost entirely on crossover and "look it all fits together it's a shared universe" at the expense of everything else). I said it. That's my opinion and it is what it is I totally hear you on this point, and I'm trying to be fair that what didn't work for me might work well for other people. What my "fan fiction" characterization is considering is that rather than Wayne being portrayed as a humorous character, he came across as a caricature of himself (i.e. "he-he fart joke" and "silly Wayne throwing his money away on ridiculous investments like electricity and the sports/entertainment industry!") Wayne had some really, really solid moments in this book, but I felt like where the plot/story wasn't as full as I felt it should be, it was full/stuffed with "oh look at that Wayne character, remember he's the funny one everyone!" content.

I want to say I liked TLM, because there were moments that I truly did enjoy. I think I’m seeing lots of similar feelings though to my overall reaction to some of the “overstuffed/overplayed” nature of the story… The middle section of TLM in particular felt almost like a fan fiction, as did the “big bad” reveal early in the story. Then again, we’ve got a bunch of really committed fans who pour over the books and interviews and Word of Brandon that by the time a book comes out, statistically it’s likely that the fan community will guess at least some of what’s coming next. Consider the difference between: I love Brandon’s writings, and I’ve loved all the cosmere books so far. That said, TLM fell a bit flat. No author will hit it out of the park 100% of the time, and Brandon has certainly spoiled us with nonstop high quality material so far. The argument that he enjoys doing multiple projects all at the same time because it’s his process, when the messy quality of TLM is what we get after waiting six years, makes me question the process a bit now. I’m glad he’s taking more time to get Stormlight 5 right.

@Chaos you may not know this, but as a huge fan of all things Brandon Sanderson, I am very moved by the fact that “Eric from the Shardcast” actually responded to a post I made on here =) I feel so special! Sincerely, thank you good sir, and thanks to all of you who work to maintain this incredible fandom community! It’s so much fun to be a part of a legend of literature like Brandon in real time with other people who love it too!

Hi everyone! I don't recall this being announced anywhere, so I apologize if this is old news, but there's a cyber Monday deal for all three Mistborn leatherbound books right now on brandonsanderson.com!

Will the Shard be adding an online store for said and future merch?

You mean..."Dying is easy, young man, living is harder?" (That's a Hamilton reference, for those of you who don't already view Dalinar as hip-hop George Washington in your minds)

What if Kelsier creates the Ghostbloods to combat the Set, which may be a manifestation of Odium/Taravangian's presence on Scadrial? Even the name "Ghostbloods" makes sense now that we know who is leading it - a cognitive shadow (ghost) who desires returning to a physical body in the physical realm (blood).

I think there’s a WoB that says that the Unmade are splinters of Odium?

Exactly! The Heralds exist in the Physical Realm on Braize with the rest of the Fused and voidspren until a Desolation begins. Then, somehow they are transported to Roshar, where they also exist in the Physical Realm until they are killed... ...at which point they return to Braize, and exist again in the Physical Realm. This “back and forth” process clearly takes a toll on mental stability, as seen in both the Heralds and the Fused, though do we know if the instability is more a result of them NOT continuing the cycle of back and forth like the Oathpact originally intended, or if the process caused it in the first place over thousands of years of experiencing it. We’ve seen glimpses of how the Fused and voidspren somehow left Braize through Shadesmar. The Everstorm was somehow moved from Shadesmar into the Physical Realm too. They use this storm as one way to get into the Physical Realm on Roshar. It seems this was the result of some kind of work around Odium figured out, not through the traditional “back and forth” process the Oathpact had in place. I wondered if it was the capture of Ba-Ado-Mishram that caused the brokenness the Heralds and Fused experience, but if Thaidikar is experiencing it too, then this doesn’t seem to be the case. In short, Ishar’s experiments may be an attempt to find a work around outside the Oathpact’s boundaries in an attempt to stop or reverse the cognitive decay he’s experiencing. This decay may be a result of the Realm-switching (or lack thereof) the Heralds have experienced over the thousands of years the Oathpact has existed.

So Ishar is trying to pull spren from the Cognitive Realm into the Physical Realm. At first this seemed really random to me, like some kind of deranged concentration camp-style experimentation (which it definitely is), but it seems less random the more I think about it. (I will apologize in advance if this has already been mentioned elsewhere) Ishar (and Thaidakar) both seem very interested in escaping their limitations inherent in being cognitive shadows. I could be misremembering the lore (or maybe it hasn't been fleshed out yet - the pun in this statement is coming), but do the Heralds simply rematerialize new bodies each time they return from Braize? We know they don't possess a physical host like the Fused do, but there seems to be some strange disconnect (or unique quality) that allows them as cognitive shadows to ALSO be physically present in the Physical Realm. Then again, Braize is ALSO in the Physical Realm, so despite being Cognitive Shadows, they also fully exist in the Physical Realm. They are so immensely invested that they are no longer human, and are more akin to spren. This is why I suspect Ishar is experimenting on spren. Somehow the Heralds can practically be spren, but exist in the Physical Realm, with physical bodies, but spren do not seem to make this transition into physical bodies well (as evidenced by the contents of the tent). If this transition is causing physical decay for spren coming into the Physical Realm, I suspect a similar transition is what is causing cognitive decay for the Heralds existing as they do.

I predicted Shallan’s grave hidden secret... ...but honestly, the story REALLY went out of its way to set this up, which was really off putting for me. It’s like that meme of DeCaprio pointing at the TV - you saw it coming a mile away, and then it wasn’t really interesting when it happened. At least that was my experience, and if it wasn’t yours, that’s ok because everyone is entitled to their own experience with art =) For all the talk about Adolin being so cookie cutter everything works out, I honestly didn’t expect what happened with Maya - that was a perfect “wow Brandon, the fandom seems convinced Adolin’s going to restore her and become a Radiant and is disappointed that’s so predictable WAIT NOPE NOT WHAT HAPPENED” moment. But Shallan? C’mon - it’s like this third hidden Shallan secret was forced quickly to create an additional trauma and plot development point that didn’t seem necessary. And it also wasn’t really fleshed out very clearly either, so I’m sure we’ll eventually get a flashback, but I’m not thrilled about the idea. I’ve generally liked her character, but as others have mentioned, this felt less like an expression of DID and more an overextension of a character into space that didn’t seem necessary. As the SandoFandom grows, I wonder how hard it is to keep ahead of the theories, you know? As if Brandon was planning a big reveal with Odium in this book, but everyone for a year leading up to the release was all “WE EXPECT THIS TO HAPPEN,” does that change his writing? I doubt it, but it makes you wonder. For example: But what do we want more? To see the book fulfill what we all expect (ie more broader cosmere connections with each new storm lightbook) or to completely shock and surprise, (like whatever happened in that strange epilogue we just got?) I loved Lost, and while I hated that all the loose ends weren’t tied up exactly and explicitly like I’d hoped in the end, I enjoyed the experience because it made it hard to predict WHAT was happening (despite tons of easter eggs and a theory crafting fandom). This was the first book that felt a little predictable, but even that being said, so much WAS unexpected that I thoroughly enjoyed it and will love Brandon and his writing all my life =) May there always be another secret, and may we continue to hypothesize together until we all return to The One!

This is just an insane example of the incredible fandom that is the 17th Shard. I didn't get to grow up in the era of JRR Tolken, George RR Martin's books were drawn out over such a long time (still waiting), and Harry Potter was incredible in so many ways (but not on the level of theorizing and interconnectedness I love). Brandon's Cosmere is like the LOST of our generation, and this map shows that his fans SHOW UP with their A game. Thanks for making this incredible ride even more fun with this map!

What if the Sibling "going to sleep" or "dying" or whatever process it went through was related to the defeat of Ba-Ado-Mishram? Perhaps this was a trade off, a sacrifice that while costing the parsh their ability to use forms of power, ended up costing the Radiants the ability to use Urithiru. Consider the Emeralds from the Gem Archive: Notice the connection to scholars identifying an edge, much like this new villain has identified too. Theorizing, just like she did for millennia... Maybe these "unintended side effects" also applied to the Radiants somehow? Sounds like a parallel to our new crazy fused friend's train of thought!

Kan'tdra - a term used on Scadrial for a person who lazily claims they aren't able to do something.

This is my first post on here in a long time, but I just wanted to let you all know that this thread is literally why I love the 17th Shard so much =) The deepness of this conversation has been a refreshing splash of fantasy philosophy in the middle of a crazy work day!

Good call! Ati was attempting to destroy Leras (which may have violated the rule to not harm any other vessel).

This appears to be your first post, and as a long-time sharder/lurker of the shard, I love this theory! =) I hope you bring more posts as insightful as this to the forums!

I could be wrong, but don't they reuse the spikes from generation to generation of Inquisitor? That'd be my answer (without doing a review of any of the books :-P)

I felt the same way too. Brandon seems like an incredible guy, Invested with tons of writing and storytelling power, but he is still a human being. I'd personally like to see him cut back on the random non-cosmere stories (especially in committing to trilogies!), but I understand that this is part of the "I make my living off of being a writer, so I also have to produce content consistently enough to survive" aspect of Brandon's humanity. I wonder if he's dealing with commitments he made in the past, prior to becoming (at least in my estimation) really successful with his work. Perhaps these commitments are less "man, I'll just keep writing more and more things because I have nothing else to write!" and more "I wasn't sure how successful my work would be, so I signed [multiple] contracts to write things for INSERT PUBLISHER HERE so I could guarantee my livelihood, so now I have to do so." I could be wrong, but this seems like a reality professional writers could face. I'd like to see him take a couple of years to bounce between books specifically within his cosmere. Don't get me wrong - I enjoyed the Reckoners more than I thought I would, and I'm sure I'll enjoy Alcatraz when I finally decide to read it. I know Brandon has said this "bouncing between projects" is part of his creative process (and my goodness, it seems to be working!), but the longer I've been a Sandersonian, the more the fan in me feels like he's spreading himself really thin. Seeing The Lost Metal pushed back so far was a let down for me. I agree with @Ammanas - we've been spoiled. In the back of my mind, I was thinking "Brandon is going to release Oathbringer and then reveal that he's secretly been writing COSMERE BOOK A and COSMERE BOOK B, to be released in the spring of 2018!" That's an absolutely nonsense thought (and unfair to Brandon), but to be fair to we fans, he's DONE IT BEFORE (that crafty cremling!). And, it's not like he ISN'T doing this now - it's just that his other books aren't cosmere. Again, who are we to tell the master artist what to paint, right? The last thing I want Brandon to feel from me is disappointment, especially after the incredible universe he's built for me as a fan, which pulled me into the fantasy genre, reinvigorated my love of actual reading as an adult, and which continues to provide me a fun community of people on the shard and in my personal life. We, unfortunately, don't have any Atium, so while I'd love to believe that Brandon spends his time storing up youth, he's a human being. I'll grow old with Brandon and enjoy his books as he releases them. It's funny that he finished the Wheel of Time, because my friends who first introduced me to Brandon Sanderson LOVED this series grew up and grew old with Robert Jordan. Here's to many, MANY more years of health and joy for you and your family Brandon! =)