Raykoda

Fair. Just giving my two cents. Speaking of which: Here's some more nonsense: #The Dust Brigade (3) v. #Threnody Novel (26) #Nightblood Book (64) v. #Warbreaker Sequel #Hoid (527) v. #Wit (6) #Hoid's Flute (5) v. #Hoids Flute (1) (I found this one just as I was writing this) #The Bands of Mourning (8) v. #Bands of Mourning (6) v. #The Bands of Mourning Book (1) (This one's a doozy. Obviously we should have a tag for the book, and for the Feruchemical Bracers) #Wax and Wayne 4 (13) v. #Wax and Waye 4 (1) (NOT #The Lost Metal. You all got me beat there.) #Shades (27) v. #Shade (1) #Aimians (28) v. #Aimian (2) And a few more personal thoughts: We probably need a tag for Ishar's weird experiments at the end of Rhythm of War. Here's a WoB that (I think) should just be tagged with #Ishar's spren experiments or what-have-you: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/475/#e14989 Is there a tag for WoB's about which books are coming out next, or which ones Brandon is working on? There's a bunch of WoB's that would appreciate one (no receipts here, sorry). What is the guidelines when expressing pronunciation? For instance this WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/218/#e6737) uses IPA, which I like, but only partially, which I don't, and forgets the square brackets ([]) which technically should be required in this case, which I don't like. If the fourth Stormlight novel gets #Rhythm of War, what about the research journal Navani & Raboniel make? I'd assume this will only become a bigger problem when it will probably be brought up in the plot of later Stormlight books. Same with all of the Stormlight books. Also, there's several WoB's all weirdly about sports in the cosmere, with a few hints it'll become important, or at least existent in Era 3 Mistborn. If #Cosmere Sports dethrones #Rafo, you heard it here first!!!

*Deep breath* #Survivorism (1 tag) vs. #Church of the Survivor (5 tags) (technically maybe 2 different things, but I would clean them up together) #Thaidakar (1 tag) vs. #Kelsier (171 tags) #Way of Kings Prime (93 tags) vs. #The Way of Kings Prime (1 tag) #White Sand Vol. 2 (6 tags) vs. #White Sand Vol 2 (4 tags) (Spot the difference!) #White Sand Vol. 1 (3 tags) vs. #White Sand Vol 1 (3 tags) (Spot the difference!) #Parshendi (53 tags) vs. #Listeners (50 tags) (This one is a matter of philosophy, but I think if the Arcanum is supposed to be spoiler full, it should be all rolled into the preferred nomenclature. "Parshendi" is almost kind of a slur.) #Fabrial (1 tag) vs. #Fabrials (50 tags) The Thaidakar, Fabrial, tWoK prime and White Sand volume problems I think should be rolled into the more commonly known, plural, and perioid-less versions (since that's what vol 3 has). Also I personally disagree with the "Order of" prefix being attached to KR orders, and it seems like most of the users agree with me. #Windrunners at 8 with #Order of Windrunners at 1, Skybreakers 8 to 1, Edgedancers 2 to 1, e.t.c. I think taking the prefix out is much slicker. Also I realize that there's a lot to be done for the site, but this information stored away in the forums should really be on the site itself for newcomers. We are fighting an uphill battle as long as fresh good samaritans don't know what the best practices are.

Remember people, these are Divine Attributes not just words from a dictionary. Anonymity, along with being yet another starting with the letter A, is not Divine in the slightest. You might be mixing it up with something like Mystery which admittedly, would be sick. The last reasonable suggestion otherwise I've heard is Purity, dunno where from.

When Dalinar was counting off his surgebinders at the end of OB, he was missing a Willshaper (Venli), Stoneward (Taln) and Dustbringer (Ash?), all of whom are the flashback characters (substituting Venli for Eshonai, you know the deal). If Adolin was "well on his way" you'd think he'd be part of such an auspicious event. This isn't actually proof but either way Adolin becoming a KR is such, such, a telegraphed move. Sanderson's way to clever for that. Since when has this forum been any good at predicting plot points.

Way more importantly, if Kaladin is Tanavast's actual, physical descendant, then he must not have come from Ashyn with the rest of humanity since that was Odium's planet. Do we have WoB's on migrations to Roshar after the mess with the Dawnshards?

Justice seems to me like Honor + Odium. Using your anger to punish the guilty. A big gap in the shards so far is that all of them are sterile, for the lack of a better word. Cultivation, and Endowment all pertain to creating something new, out of whole cloth. In theological terms, (since they are all aspects of Adonalsium, i.e. god) None of them account for Ex Nihilo creation. Reusing the Allomantic table exactly seems a little lazy. There's probably some structure that's similar, (16 and everything) but Brandon's more clever than that.

Whether or not Renarin is a legitimate Truthwatcher or not is a matter of technicalities at this point. I would say that he qualifies, some would disagree. More importantly, we're not sure how much of Renarin's abilities are Voidbinding, and how much is regular Surgebinding. We know that some ancient Truthwatchers could see the future, and how ridiculous would it be if all of the got corrupted by Sja-anat, and yet no one noticed that their spren were off in the same way that Jasnah did? So vanilla Truthwatchers probably have at least some future telling abilities, and by how Cultivation played Dalinar, I'm not making any predictions for the Diagram. Although the fact that Cultivation is doing something is pretty obvious. Honor knows what.

While technically the new art is technically way better, it seems a little to normal, for lack of a better word. The original art's REDACTED gave it charm and grit, while the new one is perfect and shiny. The fact that they're going to change artists three times in three different volumes doesn't give me confidence, though. That's the modern comic book industry for you, I guess.

A seems to be the correct answer due to this WoB. The important part: So all Invesiture from Adonalsium got assigned to one of the 16 shards, and all Invesiture is from Adonalsium. There's a bit of a snag here, in the transition from investiture of a shard to the shard's Intent, but if we prescribe to the "stained glass window" metaphor as I do, it seems reasonable to me. Honor and Unity being the same shard seems silly to me. Honor, before and after he went crazy, is all about taking oaths, and keeping them, while Unity is about (I assume) bringing or keeping things together. You can see the former from the Stormfather talking about how he cares not for the oaths, but just if they are kept. Szeth's dissension from the rest of the Skybreakers is Honorable, but not very United, using those definitions.

If you are uncomfortable with the idea of an Odium spren somehow being bonded with a KR (like I am), there's the theory that The Sibling is the third Bondsmith spren, and is made of a fusion of Honor + Cultivation, sort of like Feruchemy between Ruin and Preservation. We also need to check the assumption that Cusicesh is one of a kind. There may be other spren at it's 'level' that haven't been shown yet.

RE: Jewish != Arabic, there's this reddit post that I thought I would never see in my life. So it's still appropriate, nevertheless. Nitpick aside, this is not really my kind of thing but still cool.

Yeah, Jasnah's death was a bit of a cock-up on Brandon's part. But if yet again, a death in WoR turned out to be cheap, It would've been even worse. For this one, he kept to his guns and showed that death means death. As for the only ways we know if they are truly dead being Nightblood or WoB? That's just silly. Anyone who legitimately thinks that Eshonai was Timbre, either was just holding out hope for a ridiculous asspull, or just didn't notice all of the evidence to the contrary. I'll disagree with your part about Venli just being a worse replacement for Eshonai in this book. The difference is that Venli is flawed and dare I say, broken, in a way that Eshonai wasn't. Do you think that Eshonai would willingly be Odium's spokesperson? No storming way. And that's because Eshonai is a better (morals) character, but not a better (narrative) character. Which is to say, @Calderis is completely right. It wouldn't even be hard to convince me that Eshonai wouldn't become a KR like Venli did. And what's with all of the focus on this book? Brandon plots stuff way further in advance for this to be a last second swap, and he probably has heard your opinion on the internet before. As I said in my previous post, have some faith.

I'm more personal interested in the Patji = Autonomy stuff he just causally threw out there....

Honestly, thank god for Brandon finally laying those asinine Eshonai = Timbre theories to rest. I was getting a little tired with arguing with people that Timbre was actually captain Ico's daughter. Secondarily, I just don't understand the people getting mad at Eshonai's death. Y'all are the same people who got mad at all of the fake-out deaths in WoR. I've already seen memes and posts all about how there's no way that Venli could possibly have a good redemption arc, and that the fourth book is completely ruined. Have some faith! I'm sure Brandon knows what he's doing.

For Unity vs Honor I think you have it backwards. The word "Honor" is the best word that Brandon chose to represent the fundamental nature of the shard, which is the spirit of obligations, oaths and laws. Like MtG's White (I have a whole write up brewing about ascribing colours to Shards. Watch out.). If someone else took up Honor, then that person would still be Honor, and we would call him Honor, (and his name), but he could re-interpret what that means to him. Basically, @Extesian you're right, and I should probably hang out in the Discord more. @ILuvHats Maybe I just don't know my Freud, but the Id seems a bit too unemotional for it to be Odium, with or without it actually being Passion. The Id, at least to me, seems all about instict and reactions. A small squirrel running away from a predator is very Id driven, but not very odious or passionate, right?

@Jofwu You're right about the cases + boxes, I now understand what you are getting at. As for Dalinar Ascending, I still think that Unity as a shard Intent is a little out there, but I get what you are saying. Here's the quote in particular: '"Dalinar Was not supposed to Ascend," Odium said, stepping up behind Taravangian.' p.g 1216 So it's in past tense. Which means that whatever ascending that Dalinar did, is already done. He obviously didn't become a shard (or did he???????????) so it's a moot point. "Ascending" probably means something else. @ZellyiaThe problem with your Freudian analysis is that some shards Intents (such as Cultivation and Preservation) are very un-Id like. Also there's not a great parallel for the super-ego in that analogy.

I'm really happy this thread got made, since I fell that every since Oathbringer dropped there have been a lot of talks about this topic, but never really tackled head on like @Jofwu has done. First, imho, everyone who thinks that Odium is 100% honest when he is explaining his Intent to Dalinar as Passion is being a little bit naive. Odium had every reason to twist, mangle and butcher the truth, if not lie entirley to get Dalinar down with Yelig-nar. Hoid called him "loathsome and crafty", even before he took up the shard. It is quite possible that after holding the shard of Odium, Rayse got desensitized to his anger and shifted how he interprets the shard over to Passion, but the other way around? No way. Dalinar's "I am Unity" I think is getting a little out of hand. If Unity is the Intent of a shard of some kind, what about when Kelsier said "I am Hope"? Same capitalization and everything. With that out of the way, here's my two cents (or dollars) on @Jofwu's paradigm: The Fundamental Nature and the Intent are the same thing. The word used to describe the intent (Honor, Odium, Ruin, e.t.c.) is just the single word that Brandon thought described the Intent best. I think that splitting these up is a little overeager. This is different from the Vessel's Expression, which is still a legitimate thing per WoB, but I personal don't think has as much wiggle room as some others do. Call this Case 5. The black and blue boxes are the same, with a red box within that's slightly smaller. For Harmony, the evidence from the WoB's and epigraphs about Discord are too great to ignore. For posterity, here are they: So Discord, as an alternate version Harmony most definitely exists. I don't think it's because of Sazed choosing how to interpret Ruin + Preservation like @Jofwusays though. How the Intent gets interpreted seems to be a somewhat of a choice, but in the WoB Brandon says it's a matter of Sazed being able to control himself. Here's my take: Ruin and Preservation haven't really "melded" like they did when they were both in Adonalsium. Sazed's thoughts, abilities and actions are being filtered through both Intents simultaneously. This is why he is under so much strain, and if it ever gets to him then he'll go Discord.

I disagree with the train of thought going on in this thread that Odium can't understand love/compassion/the true meaning of Christmas/whatever. Remember, his big freak out when Dalinar beat him didn't happen when he beat Yelig-nar, but when he created the Perpendicularity. Ergo, the idea that Dalinar's awesome-ness (wrong KR, but whatever) would overpower his dickish-ness was always a potential in his brain. It also explains why Dalinar was Odium's choice, instead of someone like Kaladin or Szeth, who would be better. Odium's evil, but Sauron he aint. #1 Seems like the most likely answer to me, but we can't forget two things: Cultivation being all crafty and future-sight being janky in general in the Cosmere. Honestly until we get some solid information about how future sight is dangerous I'm going to lay off on too specific speculation regarding this point.

For those who haven't read volume two yet (what are you doing?), A regular dude named Trell shows up for one page, and is never seen again. I nearly fell off my chair when that happened. Any ideas of what this could mean?

Sorry to necropost, but I think I found the obvious answer: Skathan from Vol. 2, the dude Baon and Khriss talk about when they are figuring out how Sand Mastery works He's apparently ageless, has tons of weird magical powers, and is only tangentially important to the plot. Case closed, I'd say.

@YataThat also raises an (admittedly off topic) but interesting question. In the group of Nale's Skybreakers, was there a fifth Ideal KR? we know Szeth was partially trained by a fourth ideal one. Chances are Jasnah has at least 3 Oaths, and the geometric lines can be evidence of her being at four, but I think it's a little flimsy. Maybe she just Elsecalled in there and that's what that looks like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

@TheMediocreMind Shallan is at her fourth Ideal (or Truth, you get the point), this is confirmed. The fact that she hasn't made Shardplate is of course of note, but irrelevant. Wob: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/156-words-of-radiance-lexington-signing/#e2845 At the end of WoR, Shallan was one step ahead of Kaladin, who was at three. It's been assumed that her three Truths have been 1) I am terrified 2) I killed my father 3)I killed my mother.

Huh, I never saw @Wit Beyond Measure's WoB up there. Despite the RAFO, I'm personally going to keep Ashyn = Tranquiline Halls as a fact. One other piece of evidence is (spoilers for the bit from Silence Divine, maybe, but I'm not taking chances). There's also this WoB that implies there's at least some non-geographical connection between Ashyn and Roshar that will come up later: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/105-17th-shard-forum-qa/#e1238

Good and all, but if I were to nitpick, your explanation of the Fermi Paradox is a bit off..

As for Shallan , someone made a hypothesis here that I really like, that #5 will be "I am Shallan" a la the Skybreaker Ideals. As for Hoid, given how much rust he's gotten himself into I have no doubt that he has some juicy truths indeed, although with how close to chest Brandon is playing his Hoid info I doubt we'll get knowledge of them anytime soon, if ever. I, personally, want to know how long it will take him though. Other KR had some self-actualization to get through, while Hoid seems to be done all that. I also think the fact that he's a Lightweaver, as opposed to any other order is of note, that might let us understand him better.