Lilaer

@FeatherWriter So basically, everyone thinking it was Dalinar will not trouble Dalinar anymore than the rest of the visions already do, but everyone knowing it was Renarin would be huge trouble for Renarin. And that‘s why he would do it. And perhaps that wasn‘t even a really considered decision but one driven by fear. Okay that sounds quite possible. Do we know that Renarin definitely knew from early on that it was himself who drew those scratches? If the book makes that clear, I apologize. I always thought even Renarin himself didn‘t know it for a while. But if he knew it early on, then he at the very least let everyone believe it was Dalinar, if only by not speaking up. Huh. Who would have guessed this from little Renarin.

Do you really think that? Wouldn't that be a pretty bad thing for Renarin to do - intentionally drawing suspicion to his own father? I'm surprised because, well, you're the biggest Renarin fan around I tend to think that Renarin wouldn't do that, because he wouldn't intentionally bring trouble on anyone in his family.

I like the bitter side of Kaladin's, but for if you want to laugh at him, Billy Joel's Angry Young Man fits hilariously well. It could be like the anthem of Kaladin-non-fans: And there's always a place for the angry young man With his fist in the air and his head in the sand He's never been able to learn from mistakes He can't understand why his heart always breaks His honor is pure, and his courage as well he's fair and he's true, and he's boring as hell And he'll go to his grave as an angry old man.

Hm, posted before reading your (Chaos) reply.

I just have to debate that claim: Black Lives matter does not imply that other lives don’t matter. It is a reaction to the implied assumption in society, that black lives don’t matter. (And by ‘implied’ I mean putting this assumption into horrible practice.) It’s the difference between: “Don’t hit that person.” (But hit everyone else.) and “Don’t hit that person. “ (Stop doing it!) As for colorism in the SA…. Well, it seems obvious to me that Brandon Sanderson is highly critical of that attitude. Kaladin’s entire arc is caused by that evil in Alethi society and his attempts to survive if not even change it. Kaladin is as heroic as any fantasy hero can possibly be. We readers never feel the slightest twinge of doubt that a darkeyed individual is as worthy as any lighteyes. We wish feverntly that the discrimination will change in Alethkar (and are reasonably optimistic that it will, of course.) Conflict is part of a story.

@ Mirahound Dance with the Devil is very cool an so Kaladin. WoK Kaladin, and perhaps a Kaladin who does try for one last escape attempt, which would be then 'dancing with the devil tonight' I found two great fanmixes I enjoyed. One mix for Shallan: breaking open the dense blue air . And this moody selection for Adolin, post WoR: Golden Boy

Is it horrible to say that this is kind of funny? Obviously not in real life! But just... Szeth is already so tortured, so disturbed and so dangerous and now he's together with a bloodthirsty magical sword and a probably crazy fallen hero. It's just hilariously horrible.

Okay, pming you. I don‘t mind any grammar mistakes, I‘m German myself and I also make some.

I wonder why there is so little fanfiction of SA as a whole? Because I went looking for FF too... I have a theory about it I'd like to share. That is that fanfiction always tries to fill a hole that is left open by canon. And the original SA is detail-oriented, introspective and even shippy, that leaves not many holes open to fill for fanfiction. Particularly the character introspection and flashbacks. That‘s often what FF does, examine character‘s hearts into their depths - but with SA we have almost a guarantee that that is going to happen in canon anyway. No need to do it in FF. That would also explain why most FF is humorous. There is plenty humour in SA but in tone it is a serious series. @Maxal I for one would love to read that fanfiction of yours. I‘m guessing it is about Adolin‘s future? I‘ve read this forum and few seem have a grasp of the character like you have. You made him shoot up in my esteem from boring, 'fast-reading the POV' to one of the favorites. And since we have so few SA fanfiction anyway, I‘m sure I‘m not the only one who‘d really like to read it

Very true and they did abandon their fight, after all, all save Taln. They're unfortunately not the heroes that humans can count on.

@Galendo I agree that for an act to be considered particularly honorable it has to have a cost. Else, it just isn‘t very meaningful. So I agree, not cheating at a game isn‘t particularly honorable. It‘s merely at a neutral point up to very very slightly honorable. But cheating when you can almost certainly get away with it and you‘d win a large sum of money, that I would consider a note-worthily honorable action - the cost is lost opportunity. I think you‘d agree, right? I also think that an ‚honorable‘ mindset considers the normal state for everyone to be honorable. You are honorable until proven otherwise. So in this case, not cheating does not make you honorable - but you don‘t have to make yourself honorable, you already naturally are (theoretically, to an honorable mindset at least.) Btw, Moral Event Horizon is an expression from TV Tropes, isn‘t it? And it means a point of no return for turning evil. I really don‘t think that Adolin is turning evil or was even wrong for killing Sadeas - merely not honorable. Shallan murdering her father was certainly even further from honorable. Yes, both were being downright dishonorable and yet they were right, to themselves and to me too - pragmatic. Honorable is not the only way of doing the right thing in a particular situation. Would you agree?

That‘s a very interesting topic! I think that both Galendo and Maxal touched on something here. The dictionary definition says: regard with respect/fullfill obligation. And I think, that means that honor has always this overtone of being very ‚official‘. It is not personal morality, it is not niceness, it is something cultural something that all know and have agreed to. That‘s also, I think, why in societies with little policing everyone has to protect their own official honor so that people know they can trust them to act in a particular manner. These actions are honorable: *Keeping one‘s word. *Following the rules of trade, a game, a contest. No cheating. *Speaking the truth. Self-sacrifice is, I think, what gives being honorable that particular status and glamour, it is what makes in valuable. If it was easy, everyone would do it/be honorable. Now between Dalinar, Kaladin and Adolin, who is the most honorable? Dalinar, hands down. (Not the Blackthorn though.) Dalinar is the one who tries to follow all these official codes of honor and who tries to establish honor as a force of order on the Alethi. He does deeply believe in the codes and tries to spread them. Kaladin is in my opinion someone who really likes the idea of honor, of an honor you can trust in yourself and others, only he‘s lost some of the belief in this actually being possible and true. But for Kaladin it would have been a natural state, I think, to believe, if only he hadn‘t had those traumatic experiences. He is, at heart, an idealist. Adolin now, he follows those codes, but not of his own free will. He does not believe in them. (That‘s no criticism of Adolin.) At the very least Adolin thinks the codes are impractical in the current situation, but also I doubt that they impress him on any personal level. Not because he‘s had bad expierences with them but because at at heart is more of a pragmatist. (Not callous, mind, only pragmatic.) Shallan is even more pragmatic. (Not callous, again, only pragmatic.) She does not believe in any grandiose codes and she doesn‘t even follow them to please anyone. She believes very much that there are problems and there are solutions and you apply the solution that befits the problem... She is sneaky by nature and honor is all about being open and doing exactly what‘s expected of you and what you said you‘d do. That‘s why she really is not very honorable - the fact that Lightweavers do not speak any oaths beyond the first highlights this - they are left free to follow their own morality and not held to some particular expectations. Each of these characters is very brave and deeply self-sacrificing though.

Hello everyone, it‘s nice to meet you. You guys have such fascinating and friendly discussions going on, it draws out even lurkers like me. I had fun thinking about the Stormlight Archive characters and what would be their symbolic animal, (A bit as in the style of the daemons of His Dark Materials or the patronus of Harry Potter. My apologies if there already is a post like this somewhere.) Here goes: Kaladin would be a wolf. A strong and hardy creature, fierce to outsiders, loyal to its pack. The wild look of a wolf would also match how I imagine him. Shallan: A mink, I think. A shy yet bold creature, crafty, quick, delicate but vicious when threatened. Adolin: A noble war steed much like Sureblood. Beautiful and powerful but in a civilized manner, not exactly an independent creature, but loyal and brave. Navani: Easy, a great cat, maybe a leopard or a lioness. Elegant, demanding, independent but also tender. Renarin: A turtle, because he always hides in his shell. More benevolently: Something like a heron or crane. Amazing if it‘s left to fly, but withering in a cage or under constant stress. Jasnah is hard. I'm not sure what I'd say. Szeth....hehe, maybe a mongoose? He‘s small, with incredible grace and reflexes so.... Elhokar is hard to tell, but then, I really don‘t like him so I don‘t want to compare him to some admirable creature. What kind of animal is known to be this moody? Dalinar is also very difficult, but not because he sucks. He‘s just not like any animal I can think of. Hm, I think I‘ve got most of the best known characters so far. Do you agree? Do you have other ideas?