Pechvarry

Something to note, to the credit of the OP: A perfect glass ball is dropped on the ground. It shatters. Are all of those shards identical in size and shape? Do they all have counterpoints? If you were to look at a cross-section of this sphere, you would have a ring which you could view as two diametrically opposed semi-circles. Pre-shattering, they held each other together in perfect neutrality. That cross-section, now shattered, includes bits from the left or the right, and has chunks missing. In essence, you cannot define any single trait pre-shattering, because it was part of a cohesive whole. What makes us think Adonalsium would shatter any more perfectly?

Isn't that kind of the point of the whole unkeyed medallion, though? I acknowledge that "unkeyed" may just be "low enough identity requirement that anyone with Preservation/Ruin in their soul will do the trick" though. But I don't see any sort of implied barrier that would cut out worldhoppers. And storing the right kind of Connection while creating an unkeyed medallion might be possible to create medallions keyed to other planets. The friction between the 2 methods seems thus: Hemalurgy is easier to use to combine Cosmere powers IF you have perfect knowledge of bind points. That extra hoop (which we have yet to see demonstrated) makes the many hurdles of the medallion method more plausible. It's like saying telekinesis is easier than lifting stuff physically -- technically true, but worthless knowledge until you figure out how to become telekinetic. But it's starting to seem more and more like proper "spirit realm" glimpsing abilities could push this towards feasible. Either way, I do acknowledge that IF you can Hemalurge the crap out of bindpoints (and you have no conscience), hemalurgy is probably more versatile.

He's also a regenerator, so he can get away with a lot of mistakes. That alone is enough to make him dangerous.

I'd prefer it if he isn't a combat god. We already have an unreasonable amount of insanely proficient good guys.

Well... the only other ability we've witnessed in the cosmere that allowed users to see the future was considered "OP" even in-world. So maybe crazy combat-yes-I-win potential.

Fresh from RAFOlympics transcription document: No mention of whether or not this was before or after he Returned, but definitely worth bringing up since this thread is still alive.

I understood. You're taking a niche thing (ability to make supervillains - and by that I mean characters who would make chimaeras) and making it out to be something that defines the system, when we both know its claim to fame has always been the ability to take the use of other magic systems. See last sentence of post though. It's not like I'm trying to come off like a jerk but... I made this very point in the text you even quoted. To be fair, it was a big post without a TL;DR. I can't fault you skimming. Point! And I thank you for refuting me in a way that at least acknowledges my points. Incidentally, I feel compelled to mention that I'm still a huge proponent of my proposed pewter bullets to kill Bloodmakers. The shooter just needs incredible aim and, probably, some perfect mechanism of seeing the spirit realm. And Intent. But, speaking of Pewterdragging and Steelpushing, I guess I just need to accept that airplanes and guns already obsolete a lot of uses for the established magics. Why should Hemalurgy be any different? Maybe that's the healthy end of this thread: yeah, Hemalurgy isn't a snowflake anymore. It still has its uses, but as natc points out -- they're just not the ones I wanted. Times, they are-a-changin'.

I keep seeing this mindset and I just don't understand it! Consider: as a reader, if you woke up on Scadrial, you would know how to Steelpush. You may lack the born-in ability yourself, but you could practically coach a newly-snapped allomancer yourself! But you wouldn't have a clue how to Spike someone. Here's the point: if you're talking about the implications of what we know is possible with Hemalurgy, you must do the same with the medallions. You can't play the "they don't know how" card, and the Bands prove the technology grants far more than convenience. Really, it's just kind of strange that every single post in this thread has defended Hemalurgy, and not a single person has thought along similar lines as me. Am I coming off like I'm attacking Sanderson's writing or something? At the end of the day, Hemalurgy's primary benefit is the ability to use powers you weren't born with (or augment those you do). And if the medallions work the way we think they do, they can perform both of these benefits without killing people. So in my mind, here's the list of Hemalurgy pros: Better for bad guys who hate Harmony Better for bad guys who need an excuse to kill people Better for bad guys who want mindless killing machines Somehow allows cognitive shadows to get a body The most probable way to get the medallion process started in any meaningful way (unless you know someone who's used the Well of Ascension recently) These last 2 points are important and meaningful, but I still feel like Hemalurgy's original value has been stolen (spiked) by a combination of Identity and Investiture Feruchemy.

None of that overwhelmingly puts the ball in Hemalurgy's court. Mutating creatures is a downside, being strapped on instead of stabbed is a small loss on the individual level but a massive gain on the societal scale, not having to MURDER PEOPLE is an amazing benefit. The technology clearly has a lot of room to grow (FTL much?), and there's absolutely no reason to assume it only works with the Metallic Arts. In fact, every indication points at Connection tapping making you able to use any Selish magic that happens to exist in your current neighborhood. I have a feeling the biggest benefit of Hemalurgy is getting the medallion process started.

Anyone else feel this way after reading BoM? What's the point of Hemalurgy when you have the southern Scadrian trick? Even the Set says "well, this makes our massive amount of time and murder invested into Hemalurgy seem crappy." (paraphrased. barely) Yeah, there are still the attribute spikes, but they're also the ones that tend to warp people the worst. All in all, it seems like Ruin's legacy is getting the raw end of the deal. Thoughts? Refutation?

I could be mistaken, but I believe CrystalShadow is essentially proposing a chronology like this: 1) Events of Elantris. Elantrians get used to wearing bright colors. Something like a badge of pride? 2) Hundreds of years pass 3) ??? 4) Scadrial, influenced by the colorful Elantrians in step 3, start a fashion line known as the Worldbringer. The Terris people flip out over it.

This definitely needs some leniency. He outright said "this isn't canon". You can't say "his equation claims someone with strength 20 becomes strength 40" and throw up your hands in despair, because we haven't been given a definitive formula. Knowing what we know from Vin/Ham dueling, it's a reasonable assumption that Pewter gives you, very very roughly, an amount of additional strength equal to an average person. Ham with a 14 Strength gets bumped up to 24. Vin with a 9 gets bumped up to a 19. But this must be clearly marked as an assumption because, again, not canon.

This was my takeaway. Edwarn literally classifies them as their own "Faceless Immortals" because they can appear as anyone (like kandra) and are functionally immortal (like kandra). Not because they share any investiture-driven similarities (read: Hemalurgy) to kandra. As for Svrakiss: I've had my eyes on them for quite some time, so it's instantly where my thoughts leaped when I read it had taken someone else' body and had red eyes. The important thing to remember is that, on Sel, the Svrakiss are little more than myth. I believe at least 80% of what Dilaf says and probably another 50% of what Hrathen says/thinks on the subject can be safely tossed out. In true Sanderson fashion, what's more important is the seed of truth that inspires the legend.

I can't imagine this being true. "The Letter" depicts Odium's bearer, Rayse, as "loathsome." The indication is they are definitely not friends. As for this thread itself: since Secret History, I imagine Hoid thinks himself spiritually blind because he is, compared to a shard. Pair this with stuff Brandon has said over the years about Hoid having an ability to know where to be. I imagine this means that he feels like he's travelling blind -- going to important points in time and space, but not really sure what's going to be waiting for him.

If you wanted a closed White Sands discussion forum, you could always require things like "complete this sentence:" since anyone with a copy of white sands has an electronic (and thus searchable) version. That said, I'd just as well not see such a forum with the graphic novel around the corner. As for how to separate discussion about the prose vs graphic novel? Don't discuss the prose novel until we're completely caught up with the graphic novel. That's my vote.

I guess I assumed silver has no power -- The Simple Rules do. Whatever binds the shades, all their Investiture-derived effects are crafted to obey the rules, and one of them is "stop at silver". It's sudo Investiture (hah. I make pun).

Giving one person massive amounts of power upsets balances, deprives people of making the optimal number of choices for themselves. Against Harmony's MO.

I never remember which Heralds are present in that prologue. But I figured he's clearly not in that scene. Either way, he could only be a Herald if the Heralds aren't native to Roshar (10 core shard worlds, 10 Heralds?) since Khyrindor's WoB says, in no uncertain language, that he was born on Nalthis. So the core I'm trying to focus on, more than Heraldry, is the concept that Vasher was a worldhopper who then died and Returned, and had to rediscover worldhopping.

I would propose a different theory: identity isn't binary, and doesn't need to be at 0 for a metalmind to be unkeyed. Looking at the rest of the cosmere, it looks like at a low enough level of Identity, a boat and water is the same thing. A large rock can become smoke. An ugly vase can become a beautiful one. It would seem, to me, like you could have enough identity to be classified as human, but not enough to be "you".

Experiential learning is still important. Imagine what a cheap supply of these could do for a factory. Need this thing assembled? Have your floor lead go through it a few times, then store a memory of it. Take the master into the office, duplicate it a few dozen times, now pass them out to unskilled labor so they experience "how to do it right" once right off the bat. You would still want documentation and QA checks of course. If the unkeyed metalmind can also be made to allow storing, you could go a step further: imagine a workforce that's always working while tapping a memory; ghosting their own motions to the memory they're reliving. They start each shift with an unblemished "master" memory, tap as they assemble, then store that memory and immediately begin tapping it when they work on the next part. I can imagine this would make time pass in a blur, which is a plus. I can also imagine some other small, mundane uses: servers memorizing menu with prices, for example. I really want to know about that "anyone can store" possibility, though. If you can make a device like that... copper is going to have some very interesting psychiatric applications.

Occam's Razor says you're right, but I find it worth noting that if the Shades' behavior wasn't changed by the exodus to Hell, that means they were like this before they arrived. Nazh is a worldhopper, so it's entirely possible he knew all about Hell and the shades long before The Evil even happened.

Wow, great list, Khyrindor! I really like the inclusion of known names and titles. Cosmere Theory: anyone with at least 3 names or 3 distinct, impressive-sounding titles is clearly a world-hopper.

Lightsong.

Ah thanks, and I totally agree. Sanderson continually asserts that Allomantic electrum isn't that useful (in-universe, I admit), but it seems like it would have sooo much potential. Worse than Atium? Of course. But probably as good as Pewter in a gun fight. Out of context quotes are funny (sorry I couldn't resist).

I don't know, it seems to fit pretty well with me. For myself, anyway, I see Vasher as a hero who only sees his own failures. This would take the concept and crank it up to the Fifth Heightening. I APPROVE OF THIS MESSAGE.