WindrunnerRadiant

I've extensively checked WoB and every mention of the "godspren" in the books and found nothing to suggest that the other "godspren" are necessarliy the ones Bondsmiths bond. It seems the most likely option though. You're right, I missunderstood a part from OB In Ch. 64, Stormfather talks about how Honor's power pierces all three realms. I have no idea how, but ended up underatanding that as Bondsmiths bond a version of the Stormfather reflected across each of the realms. Thanks for correcting me!

This is a really cool idea, but I find it unlikely. The two spren that can bond a Bondsmith that we know of are Stormfather in the Highstorm (Physical) and his opposite in Shadesmar's Highstorm (Cognitive). It is most likely that the third spren os reflectes on the third realm we have yet to get a peak onto, the Spiritual.

Once thought but a man Now a grand Cosmere question Who, truly, is Hoid?

I am quite fond of his characters and his process of developing them. In my opinion, however, his most masterful ability is the way he creates unique and wonderful worlds. That said, Nightblood + Stick, everyone's favorite inanimate objects.

I want to thank everyone for their input. I don't have anyone outside this forum to share my thoughts with so this is where I get my outside input to help clarify my ideas. THIS IS NOT A THEORY. I should have clarified that in my initial post. It's a thought I have had that I would like input on. I don't think Rayse is anything besides Odium. Whatever he may claim or portray himself as, he is too hate filled. As far as quotes from individuals in the books, I find them too unreliable. We are misdirected by honest but flawed points of view too often by characters.

All hair on your body falls out, never to grow back. I wish I had more friends in real life to discuss Cosmere novels with. (Everyone here is great but instant feedback is nice)

(Some Spoilers from Stormlight Archive and Mistborn ahead) I'll start off by saying that the entity comprised of the unity of Rayse and the Shard he holds can best be described as Odium. However, the actual nature of the Shard itself isn't. I believe it would be best to describe it instead as Passion. I have been thinking for a long time that Odium seemed an odd intent for a piece of God. It never made sense to me. Then we get to see Sazed as Harmony and I realized the intention of the being could be different based on who the holder is. For inatance, if the Lord Ruled had obtained Preservation and Ruin, he would likely have been a far more strict balance of intentions whereas Sazed is a balance promoting growth, leaning more toward Preservation. The next hint we had before we even see Odium's name printed in WoK. Vorinism preaches the "Passions" as the source of sin. This coupled with Vorinism being the result of casting aside Odium and taking up Honor as their Almighty serves as an extra piece of evidence to me. My last clue was the Unmade. Most likely Slivers of Odium, they should directly portray aspects of the Shard. However, instead of being entirely hate filled beings as you would expect of Odium's strongest servants, you instead see beings representing different passions. Because they don't represent Odium, they represent the Shared Rayse holds, Passion. *edit* I should have clarified this in my initial posting, this is not a fully fledged theory. It's an idea that's been rumbling around in my head that I would love input on.

What I know of the Ire is that they had a plot to take control of Preservation but were thwarted by Kelsier. They have a castle of some sort that exists entirely in the cognitive realm and technology advanced enough to use it to control a shard. Simply the name of the Seventeenth Shard suggests that they know quite a bit about the Cosmere as a whole. They are opposed to Hoid, though all that is known of his goals is that he is trying to collect many different forms of investiture and that they are so important that he is willing to sacrifice worlds to accomplish them. There are plenty of theories about them, but not much in absolutes. I only know enough of the Ones Above to say that have the technology to travel through space. At the very least they seem to be trying to explore different shardworlds, but their goals are unclear. Silverlight has really only been barely mentioned and as of yet, so very, very little is known of them.

Keep in mind that even in the quote cometaryorbit, Sanderson doesn't state anything specific. Rather, in that quote he simply makes it clear how broad the interpretation could be. He may say that he hasn't confirmed Adonalsium as a Christian-style god with an opposing "devil," but he hasn't confirmed it isn't. I encourage you to keep your ideas open and that the accepted theory isn't necessarily true. As for the original question, it does seem likely that Odium is the main antagonist and the "opposing force" is the main antagonistic presence for the next five, but that force could be anything, from an organization that caused the events surrounding the breaking to an anti-Adonalsium. I think it is more likely that it is some sort of organization based on what we have seen on Scadrial. I doubt the events there can be attributed to another shard as I believe Harmony would recognize the presence or power of another shard. I think it is more likely that a group discovered a way to use investiture without it being connected to Adonalsium or the Shards and that this either led to the shattering or that Adonalsium had to be shattered for it to work.

I think it was the whole thing with her pretending to be killed. TenSoon tells Wax that Harmony did force Paalm to do something she didn't want to, and I think that is what it was. That would then be what made her seek so much to free herself from Harmony. I also think that the process of freeing herself from Harmony is what caused her to go insane, obviously something to do with Trell (I cite Miles as supporting evidence for Trell twisting perception).

I have a couple problems I have with the theory that Kelsier holds the remaining power of Ruin. First of all, if Harmony had seen what would eventually happen with Kelsier holding a part of Ruin, he would know what the metal was and it is stated that he doesn't. I also have trouble with this theory because it just doesn't make sense to me. Why not just leave the Pits of Hathsin to limit the amount of Ruin in him?

Is it plausible for Nightblood to simply draw from gems Szeth carries with him rather than from Szeth himself, then switch over if he runs out? Perhaps with Breaths this isn't possible because for any Breaths to transfer from one person to the next they have to be in physical contact, but stormlight has been seen pulled from a distance, albeit a very small one.

You really ought to start a topic on that... I would, but its your idea.

Thank you for that. I wasn't sure and didn't have time at the moment to look it up.

First, I would like to mention the Adonai is one name for the Hebrew God. However, the word Adonai means, more or less, lord. The name that Jews consider to be the actual name of God (and they won't utter or write it themselves as they believe it is to sacred) is Yahweh, which means "He that Is." (Sorry, I'm getting a BA in Religion) That is a great observation. There are certainly similarities. However, it is much more likely that Brandon simply changed it a bit to use as the name of the greatest being in the Cosmere. He did explicitly state that Adonalsium is the name of the being.

Yes, Brandon did say that Hoid would be nigh impossible to kill. From what he has said about it, it sounds different from compounding with gold, though it would be on par if not better - as far as I know gold healing is purely physical and Hoid has been confirmed to be able to heal from spiritual wounds like those from a shardblade. However, that could also come from some other aspect of the metalic arts. Perhaps Alluminum Ferrings (Trueselfs) would be able to, that would give him the necessary abilities.

1. First, when talking about Nightblood versus what you might calla "normal shardblade" (as in a dead spren) it would be wrong to assume they are the same thing. Nightblood is fundamentally different from Rosharan Shardblades. The idea of making a heavily invested Awakened blade might have come from Shardblades as it has been confirmed that Vashar did some worldhopping when he was younger. However, there are some key differences. Nightblood is a sword, always was a sword, and was never anything else. Rosharan Shardblades are spren in a weapon form, their basic state is not an invested weapon. That said, this is just something to keep in mind when discussing things. 2. As for the statement that Stormlight might not be as potent as Breaths, I'm not so sure. That would make Nightblood a suicidal weapon to use. He sucked Breaths extremely quickly, and if he consumes stormlight even more quickly, his wielder would die in seconds. On the contrary, I think stormlight would be a more efficient source of investiture for him. Part of this is that if stormlight was that much less potent, Vasher would have truly struggled to live on Roshar. I don't think he wouldn't manage, but it would be tough. The other side of this is that stormlight is much more free, not quite as bound to its containers, and possibly a purer form of investiture. Breaths stay were they are put, stormlight leeks. This might make it easier for Nightblood to use. 3. I don't think the ratio was misread in making Nightblood. I think it is much more likely that that was the number of Breaths needed to create him. An awakening of that magnitude would need an incredible amount of Breaths. The Five Scholars spent a considerable amount of time researching as well, so such a mistake doesn't make sense to me. 4. Yes, he was talking about dead shardblades. We have seen Syl changing her shape plenty. Also, spren don't really have a set physical form, whereas Nightblood does, so I doubt he will change shape at all. 5. Is Nightblood able to form such a bond? It seems over time after feeding many hundreds of Breath to him, Vasher had some sort of spiritweb bond to him that reduced the sick feeling and made the transfer of Breaths more efficient so Vasher didn't get drained as quickly as the average person, but I don't think he would form a bond that would allow Szeth to take in stormlight. 6. Nightblood would have the same effect on a normal person on Roshar as he would a Drab. The spark of life would get sucked up. As for the vented investiture, I doubt a Surgebinder would be able to use it, and if they are able to, I would assume it would be very bad indeed. Side effects may include but are not limited to: erratic behavior, wonky surgebinding, sickly spren, and in many cases, death.

Just curious, but... um... What are his more spectacular powers? Beyond the ones he's picked from hopping world to world post-shattering, all we know for sure is the Worldhopping itself (he would have had to come by that on Yolen... well, almost definately anyways) and possibly whatever healing capabilities he has (as Brandon seemed to say it was something we haven't seen). I'm positive that there is plenty we haven't seen from him, we haven't really seen anything extraordinary. Well, besides being on every world in every major event ever.

Thank you for summarizing captain obvious.

I think there is a theory that he might be a sliver of Adonalsium. Or there is a theory out there that he picked up whatever was left of Adonalsium after the shattering. Personally, I think he probably is just a talented and powerful worldhopper. We are fairly certain he's an Alomancer (we don't know for sure if he used the Larasium, but there have been implications he used the emotional metals in Stormlight) and he's confirmed to be a feruchemist, so he is basically imortal (although he evidently has another source of healing/immortality, probably an ability from Yolen). He is also seen using lightweaving and most likely has at least the second hightening of Breaths (he mentions having perfect pitch).

God Beyond could be a remnant from when Adonalsium was whole. And Fain Life is never stated to be a force in opposition to Adonalsium. Sanderson's only comment on any opposition to Adonalsium is that there was one. He was asked if there was something, be it a people or another cosmic force, that opposed Adonalsium and if they/it were still around. He answered yes to both. (Here's the link) I would like to note that this is "opposed," not "opposite." This doesn't mean that it was an entity of equal and opposite power. It could have even been the original shardbearers, Fain Life (I'm fairly certain Fain Life existed pre-shattering, and is, indeed, a good candidate), or something we haven't seen or heard of yet. But if there was an entity called the God Beyond that isn't Adonalsium, it would have to be an opposite or something even greater than Adonalsium and doesn't necessarily have to appear directly in the series.

What to you mean by "Has to be?" Because, in fact, there does not "have to be." Simply because something has to be greater than the Shardholders? If so, then there has to be one more powerful than that and one more powerful than that. And one more powerful than that. There does have to be some entity that's at the peak; if that was Adonalsium, then it may be the shards now. Adonalsium being shattered doesn't mean there has to be a being of equal strength. There are very real cases of people winning in unimaginable odds. Perhaps that is what happened with Adonalsium. Perhaps not. Regardless, don't say something as fact when it isn't. I know this has already been cleared up, but there is something else I would like to add. Powers stemming from Adonalsium (or what is left) are never stated to be only for humans. In addition, kandra were human originally and their Blessings are Hemalurgic Spikes; their power comes from Ruin. As far as the listeners, it seems that the Voidspren are influenced by Odium, a shard of Adonalsium. Don't take any of this to mean that I don't think there is a chance that there is an equal and opposite force to Adonalsium. It certainly is plausible. I am, however, skeptical. We haven't seen any source of investiture that came from another source yet or anyone directly showing a power that could be attributed to another source.

Hmm... Hmm... At this point it is safe to say that the Set is likely using Hemalurgy. Well, at the very least Marsh thinks Wax aught to know it is a possibility. It was mentioned before, but isn't it likely that they made a Hemalurgic spike from poor Idashwy? Well,playing off that, it was mentioned that she was seeing her dead brother in visions. Now, it was also mentioned that it may have been Kelsier (meaning she was spiked), but I have a different thought. Emotional Allomancy can control Hemalurgic constructs. If the Set knows of Hemalurgy and this weakness, there is a lot of potential for messing with someones mind. There might not be enough Hemalurgic charge to force anything, but a little psychological twisting could be just as effective and isn't stopped by removing the spike.

I had forgotten the part where Miles ordered the box (been a while since I read AoL, oops). As for the breeding, I wasn't talking about that theory at all. Rather, I was suggesting that they were perhaps trying to create a supply of people for use in Hemalurgy, making a construct such as Marsh with the Fullborn powers and that perhaps Edwarn was part of that process, an earlier experiment or someone in the process of becoming. I apologize for not being more clear on that. Harmony's influence... I never used the word unable. I wouldn't either. I said that Sazed couldn't because of his convictions and his nature as Harmony. It may seem like less of an issue because it isn't a major influence, but it is just as much manipulating people into the path that you want as forcing them, or at least what we see of Sazed in the first trilogy is the kind of man who would see it this way (in my opinion). Also, from what Marsh says at the end of AoL, it seems that Harmony asks him to do stuff. Not 'plants little idea when wondering what to do next,' just asks. And allows him to disagree. We don't even see him influencing Wax unless Wax asks for advice or perhaps you could say guidance. On the other hand, these are people that Harmony (and us readers) seems to think are morally in the right. So, perhaps Harmony might make a little unasked suggestion to someone who Harmony sees as morally corrupt.

I think it is fully possible that Edwarn is spiked. (From what we know) he seems that type of man that is willing to make high risk/high reward investments and he holds his personal safety very high. He is also very careful though. I think the biggest issue is that not very much is known about Hemalurgy and for it to work right, the spike placement is very exact. He wouldn't risk it if he wasn't fairly certain that he would get what he wanted out if it. I also agree that Harmony wouldn't want to influence people against their will. Both who he was before and the nature of being Harmony would suggest that he couldn't, in fact, bring himself to, though that isn't a fact, just observation. Oh, Marsh also mentions that Harmonies beliefs require that he allows people their own opinions (and most likely free will) Still, it does make sense for Edwarn to be spiked, and definitely something less obvious. Also there is a good possibility that he is an Allomancer, as it seems to me from what the Set seems to be planning that it could be required as a member (as far as the breeding goes). However, as for how Wax's box ended up where he needed it, it seems more likely that Harmony might have asked Marsh or even one of the kandra to place it instead (I think a kandra is most likely). As for the idea of kidnapping women with allomantic abilities for children for use in Hemalurgy, it has been suggested that they are trying to recreate a Mistborn. Even more frightening, what if they are aiming to make a person with TLR's Misborn/Feruchemy combination?