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Everything posted by Calderis

  1. Bring us.... A Shrubbery!
  2. I have achieved the rank most fitting.
  3. He is not melded with the remnants of Honor. He contains the Cognitive Shadow of the former Vessels of Honor. Because if that it's gained him a large amount of Connection to the shard, but as far as actual investiture, he gained a single Cognitive Shadow.
  4. Yep. I think what was "Ripped out" was the Physical Aspect of the Radiant themselves. Without the bond ending naturally and the spren reverting to the Cognitive being that they are supposed to be, they are left in a state that they are supposed to have a physical aspect, but lack one of their own. Because of this, the Investiture that composes them is redistributed into the physical realm, creating the blade, and it takes it from the only place that it can. The Cognitive Aspect of the spren itself, crippling them mentally. Just as a human in the Cognitive is still a living being, even when dismissed that Investiture would still be allocated for their Physical form. The stronger the bond between Adolin and Maya becomes, the more Investiture that should be a part of her mind returns, and the more her Physical form will rely on his Physical Aspect. There's no Investiture "missing" from Maya in my opinion. Just misallocated.
  5. Tanavast was the Vessel of Honor. Just as Leras and Ati were the Vessels of Preservation and Ruin. The shard itself can't have a Cognitive Shadow because the mind of the Shard was a person in the first place. Yes, they could absolutely hang around. If human can become a Cognitive Shadow just by being immersed in the power of a Shardpool when their already dead, holding a Shard itself is going to anchor the soul indefinitely. They don't have to stay. They can choose to go beyond, just as Ati did. Just as Vin did. And they can also be killed/destroyed/changed so even if they had decided to hang around they may not have survived. Khriss at least believes that the Cognitive Shadows of Aona and sky are died.
  6. Your conflating a few things here. Honor's remnants should be the pieces of the Shard itself, of which the Stormfather is only one large piece. The Stormfather's soul would be... Well the Stormfather, which happens to contain the Cognitive Shadow of Tanavast. The former Vessel of honor. Not Honor itself. Intent is not actually a Canon term. Chaos coined it and we use it because we don't have a Canon term. Harmony is not the intent of the Shards Sazed holds. There are two of those still.
  7. A main character... That's still limited by his complete inability to harm people.
  8. As to Nightblood... It's not only of Endowment. As to Azure's blade... It kills differently than a sprenblade, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it drains anything. Yes, the placement has everything to do with the fact that the piece of spiritweb is contained in the spike and as such must be placed in the correct position to integrate properly... But I think that the anchoring is both what circumvent rejection due to Identity conflict, and what makes that placement need to be so precise. As I've stated at length, if you remove the Identity conflict and create an alternate means of Connecting the spiritweb to the piece, I think this issue dissappears and is how medallions function. I absolutely disagree as far as Identity and Connection are concerned. They are "related" jn that their both Spiritual functions but one cannot become the other. They are distinct. All evidence in books shows us that Identity is a marker that suffused Investiture that says "this is me/mine." Connection on the other hand isn't Investiture in itself. It's a Spiritual force that acts upon Investiture similar to Gravity in the Physical. Identity can create Connection, such as between a Feruchemists and their metalmind. Likewise, Connection can effect Identity such as with the Nahel bond, but they do not become each other. And Breath gains the Identity of whoever holds it and is precisely why it can be retrieved. It is not an exception. Breath is specifically built to rekey itself when passed between people. Perhaps... But self altering code and a truly Sapient AI are two vastly different things. I don't think this is any different. Azure's blade is a type IV. It's the AI equivalent. It's what Nightblood should have been if Ruin's Investiture (in my opinion) hadn't got thrown into the mix. It is like a Spren, I didn't address it because I had no qualms with that. I didn't say it was a different system, just a different mechanism than awakening an object. It is doing to an object wat is normally done to a corpse. Same system, different mechanic. Creating an entity like Nightblood or Azure's blade is less like Awakening an object in the Spiritual aspect than it is like having a child. Just like creating sentient machine would be. The same way any awakened object does. The same way that life sense grants the ability to sense living things nearby without having to look at them. It may very well be Cognitive, and that still has no bearing on that object as a living, thinking, Cognitive flame. The straw man is easily the most complicated command given in the book, and learning about Awakening further into the book and looking back that should be apparent. The words of the command are not the most important part. The visualization is. It was shown what to do in the command Vasher imprinted onto the Breath when speaking the command. Everything it was capable he was envisioning. I think it would function like any other rope with a proportionate level of Investiture based resistance. That's it. Very much disagree. Similar methods of creation, with vastly different circumstances that turned Nightblood into something that should never have existed in the first place. This was never in question. That's what a type IV is. Not sure where this came from. I have no issue here. Investiture functioning without eyes is normal. Disagree. The object, and the Investiture are two separate things in an awakened object in my opinion. The object is completely unchanged, the Investiture just acts like a musculoskeletal system to move it.
  9. That actually works pretty well. I think that every Shard has a Core Intent, but the names we've been given are only the Interpretation of the Only Vessel that's ever held them. After all...
  10. "Honor" is the need to be bound by rules. I think that, at its core, is much more important to the shard than the how. Honor is focused generally, whereas Unity would be focused more on the overarching. And in the Hypothetical Sadeas situation I think it would be much more self serving, and is why I put forward the "Discipline" name. All are very different, and all have that binding to rules as a core tenant. I've been saying for a while that I think we're too focused on the names we've been given when it comes to the Shards, and I absolutely believe it is an intentional misdirection.
  11. Then you're completely misunderstanding me. What they consciously believe about the power has absolutely no bearing. What they picked up would be be whatever the core intent of Devotion is and that core would be filtered through them into a manifestation that is appropriate. Their belief that it was Ambition would be absolutely meaningless.
  12. This misses the point. How they view what the Shard was shouldn't matter. It's not their opinion of the power. Seeing Tanavast as Honor would change your deep internal interpretation of whatever the real core concept of the Shard is. This is hard to put into words. Take the concept of civilization. We all live in a civilization, but at the core of it, every one of us has a slightly different interpretation of what that means, regardless of all witnessing it. The core of a Shard is not something that would manifest consciously. Your not choosing how to have it express itself. Whatever is at the core that was interpreted by the previous vessel would move through you and express itself. The previous bearers interpretation should not have an effect on that, because it's not based on observation of how the power was used, but by the concept at its root and your own personality. I disagree. I think we have plenty of WoBs and evidence for speculation. I've seen more than enough speculation made out of whole cloth on this site, and I don't think this is anywhere near that.
  13. And this is the assumption that everyone operates under. I very well may be wrong but I don't think any of the Shard names are the true intents of the Shards. For most of them, they've only ever had one vessel and been known by one name. What I'm saying is that "Honor" is just Tanavast's interpretation of the Shard. "Unity" would be Dalinar's. They are both interpretations of a deeper core concept. I've said repeatedly that I can't wait for a single shard to change hands long enough for us to see what it becomes, because the only new vessel that we've seen long enough for a name to be given was Sazed with two. I think that any Shard would alter its expression dependant upon the Vessel. Every one of them, every time.
  14. Except for the fact that that's what he feels he is in that moment. It has nothing to do with knowing what he picked up, or even that he picked up anything at all. One, Odium is trying to do something impossible. He is consciously trying to change something that could only change if he did. Two, the filter idea is based off of Sazed. He is Harmony because of his own view of the Shards. He took the name because "it felt right." whereas he could have been Discord. Why is he Harmony? Because of his own person al views on what those two things are. The person holding the shard determines the way in which it manifests. Sadeas knew nothing either, and I'm guessing he'd have been something closer to "Discipline" if that possibility ever had taken place. Being bound by rules... But without any of the niceties or positive purpose beyond self.
  15. Of course he didn't, as you said he's still flesh and blood. But the shard as a whole contains Investiture aligned with the Shard. Interpretation should matter regardless of magnitude. If I am correct, interpretation has nothing to do with any of this. You don't interpret an intent via knowledge a conscious decision. It's a deep seeded, subconscious filter of what that intent means to the Vessel. A vessel has absolutely no lasting impression on the Shard. Honor and Unity, if they are interpretations, would not be Dalinar changing the shard. What Tanavast and Dalinar touched would be exactly the same for both of them. Only the manifestation filtered through the Vessel would be different. There is absolutely no "changing" a Shard.
  16. OK. One, I don't think Brandon saying "Nightwatcher" in those WoBs mean anything beyond "the old magic" which can be either the Nightwatcher, or Cultivation. Two, Lift and T may very well have been able to tell the difference between Cultivation and the Nightwatcher, if both happened to show up. We don't know that that happened. People seek the Old Magic and get stood up. If only Cultivation showed, what reason would they have to question? Furthermore, Lift tells Dalinar that he "smells like her." Dalinar was not changed by the Nightwatcher, but Cultivation. The touch that she can "Smell" on him is Cultivation's. And Finally Lifts gift, in my opinion, is a more massive change than Either of the other two. I don't think we've seen half of what she's capable of. Not only does she convert food into stormlight and touch Wyndle physically, which he says should be impossible, but she also enters into the Stormfathers visions without his permission or knowledge. I don't think the shift in Lift is on the same level as either Dalinar or T. I think it's a step above. Until we see her flashbacks and her visit to the Valley and it's shown what was done to her was by the Nightwatcher, I do not believe that the spren is capable of the level of change that has been made to Lift.
  17. Per summons, I must now post my awesome Taravangian schpiel. I don't believe that for a moment. The Diagram has been absolutely accurate up to this point. It's "failures" have steered events precisely. Szeth's slaughter of world leaders created the ground on which the coalition was built. The release of information to undermine the coalition lead directly to Dalinar's desperate situation and rejection of Odium during the battle of Thaylen city which in turn led to the meeting with Odium where he read those words. Taravangian on the day of the Diagram laid out this plan to steer his less intelligent self (and even on genius days, he's still far less intelligent) by the nose to follow the true plan he had on that day. That plan did not exist outside of his head. Odium is aware of everything that is in the Diagram, and to have written down the plan would mean to expose it to scrutiny. The goals of the Diagram are not, and have never been what Taravangian believes. This is not about saving a remnant. This is not capitulation. This is about positioning himself where he can do the most to undermine Odium directly. He is now a "servant" of Odium, ruling one of the most powerful nations on Roshar. Odium believes him to be loyal out of necessity, because Taravangian himself believes that. Which is the entire point. He is a trusted tool of the enemy. It's in that "capacity" that he'll be able to do what needs to be done. Or as @RShara likes to put it. "T is a plant" The Diagram foresaw it, planned for it, and facilitated his rejection.
  18. I personally think that Unity is just a reinterpretation of Honor, and that the Shards names are only what they are because of their particular Vessels. And apparently, that is not the only way to Ascend. This is an interesting idea... But it's definitely guesswork. We have no idea what role the "purposes" play, or what they are.
  19. For a spike being placed, not much. The anchoring mechanism is going to make it function pretty much the same by being forced into a specific portion of the spiritweb. I just don't think it would be necessary any longer, and when combined with Connection shenanigans allows for medallions. I assume you're referring to Clod here, and while I agree, I think that in most cases they would need to die with their Breath and be Awakened before it can disapate. If it were a ferring dumbing Identity, I think they'd have to forego the o e breath lifeless command, because I think clod has more to do ith the amount of Breath that Arsteel died with that was keyed to him than just that it was keyed to him. Vasher beat him in the same manner as Denth. I'm not sure how you'd get Investiture out of Nightblood, or even why you'd want to, but I don't think it's necessarily like the Heightenings. He has his own weird color aura, and being inside that is going to have some of the effects that I think Szeth perceives, and additionally we know that to some extent Nightblood enhances his wielder. There's really no other way to explain shoving a blunt aluminum sheath through your own chest.
  20. Your overcomplicating something that is actually simple, in my opinion. Nightblood, Larkin, and Leechers can all drain breath that is Identity locked. But not in a usable form. The Breaths are either consumed, or if retained (Nightblood) altered In a way that they are no longer accessible for Awakening. For an awakened object to respond to the "your breath to mine" command, it is going to be Identity free. Nightblood can't even give his Breath away. There's no way it's retrievable. All in all, I think that you are trying to lump things together here that are not the same phenomenon. Spikes do contain the Identity of the victim (I refuse to call it a "donor" unless it was voluntary). As I said in my previous post, I think this is precisely why bind points are important and the spike must remain in. The piece of Spiritweb must remain anchored in place, and be placed precisely. I think this is entirely because that piece has a foreign Identity which would be rejected outright if it weren't anchored in place, and as such it must be placed perfectly just to function as intended. The Nahel bond is not one thing becoming part of another. It is a symbiotic bond. There should be an Identity merger, but it's on both parts. Less a change of one to fit another, and more that two differing Identities intermingle and both become available to each other. It is a merger of two souls, not one taking over another. And Breath... Breath has no Identity of its own. At least not beyond that of any inanimate thing. It's built entirely to rekey itself as its passed along. If what it is given to is, or was, a sentient or sapient being then the breath keys itself to that thing. If it is placed in, or used to animate, an object it retains the last imprint and can be recalled. Of Course there is a Cognitive part of to Awakening. That's what a Command is. A Cognitive program. But I think it's just that. A program. Just as a computer program isn't truly intelligent, an awakened object is not. It can do exactly what it has been programed (commanded) to do. Nothing more, nothing less. The better the program, the more intelligent it seems. For a sentient/sapient object, the process for Awakening may be similar, but I think the underlying mechanics are very very different. In standard awakening, your just telling an object to move in certain ways under certain parameters. With a Type IV, you creating an actual soul and mind that function independently and are capable of growth. For the record, I think that this is exactly what happens with Lifeless as well. It's just much much easier in a once living host, and the small amount of Investiture leaves them somewhat stunted (even if they are more intelligent than people give them credit for). (Side tangent here: as much as Vasher placed them as a part of Awakening, the direct involvement of Endowment, the endowment of Sliver, and the fact that the Returned are actually the CS of a person and not a creation of Breath makes me think that they should not actually be included as a part of Awakening. They are something completely unto themselves. Awakening is a relatively young art, and as much as Vasher and the scholars knew, they are still capable of mistakes. They fit their understanding of the Returned into the system as they saw it... But I think they got this part wrong.)
  21. Nightblood, or any other sentient/Sapient awakened object will have been created in a fundamentally different way. It has its own Identity, and is like a spren in that regard. That is very different than a standard Awakened object. Lifeless are much closer to this category, in my opinion. I'm not sure what your getting at with the spikes. Yes they contain Identity, and they also must be placed precisely and permanently anchored in the body as a consequence of that. I'm not sure what that has to do with the current discussion though?
  22. Alright, I waited a while to respond to this thread, because I didn't quite understand why I disagreed, but knew that I did. After a bit of thought, I have one main issue. Identity. Metalminds, awakened objects, anything of the sort, all have an Identity that is keyed to their creator. The Investiture is not an entity of its own, but an extension of someone else. That's why the breath in Awakened objects can be retrieved, but the breath in a Lifeless can't. For an awakened object, a command is imprinted on the breath, and it works to fulfill that command, but it is not a sentient object. It's just a simulacrum. In the event that anything of this sort became "sprenlike" it should develop an Identity of its own, right up to the point that metalminds used to create it wouldn't be fully accessible to it... So no, I don't think that any of these things are akin to spren.
  23. It's amazing what a determined Sociopath with no concern for the lives he's trampling can accomplish, isn't it?
  24. The magic systems are completely reliant upon connection to the land they sprung from. An Elantrian couldn't make a stamp. But it's very possible that if a MaiPonese Forger learned the Aonic equivalents of their symbols, that they would be able to, and continue to use their art in the Opelon region.
  25. Steel and Iron both show an insane level of self protection from Feruchemy. I'm damnation certain that you could tap to the point of severely injuring people you touch. The main problem I see is that when you stop your metalminds are going to severely burn you.