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Everything posted by Calderis

  1. It is taken as a given at this point that Shardplate is composed of lesser Spren. Anyone who's spent any time in the OB channel on Discord recently is well aware that I have an issue with this. So I want to put together all of the options as I see them for Shardplate, and the problems with each. First, the ever present Spren theory. In this idea, the lesser spren come together and make the plate. It's supported by Spren being drawn to the Radiants when using their powers. That's it really. I have three main issues here. The first, and least of the three, is that plate can be broken, which spren metal cannot in the form of a blade. It can also be regrown by simply feeding it Stormlight, and I have to believe that there is more to the creation and/or reparation of Spren than merely feeding them Investiture. The second is that plate does not scream. Yes the Spren are less intelligent. They are sentient rather than sapient. But telling me that this means the Spren are incapable of pain seems akin to saying that a dog will not whine when kicked. Less intelligent does not equate to mindless. The main issue for me though, is Identity. Shardplate blocks the surges of anyone other than the Radiant using it. This shows, that just like a Feruchemist's metalminds, the plate is keyed to the Identity of the Radiant. Spren, even lesser Spren, should have an Identity of their own. Everything does. Their Identity should interfere with the surges of the Radiant, blocking either their own surges or allowing all of them, and we know neither is the case. Next, we have an older theory, which I still hold to even if it is incomplete. That Shardplate is some construct of solidified Stormlight. It would be filtered through the Radiant, providing their own identity, solving that issue. It would also make sense that it regrows through Stormlight... Because it's Stormlight. I potentially at first thought that the Spren would provide some kind of framework that the surgebinder would then fill, but we've seen that framework form with no Spren involved. Bobbobkilu on discord proposed the opposite, that the Radiant forms the framework, and the Spren fill it and in doing so they are actually transformed to the plate in truth, stripping the Spren of their Identity by filtering it through the framework and matching them to the Radiant. This is the most plausible Sprenplate theory I've heard, but I still think it would be a difficult sell universally. Pattern shows that at least some of the Spren agree with Shallan's view that trapping spren for fabrials is horrible, and if trapping them is viewed poorly, literally killing them to make plate has some major ethical issues. All of the instances that we have seen of actual living Shardplate being summoned or dismissed, which are singular there were no Spren. And in the areas that we see the framework it is the same. Dalinars vision with Fen. No spren, just Stormlight. There were no spren in the original version of this vision where he missed both the summoning and dismissal of both Radiants helms as well. Dalinar's vision with Venli. No spren, just light. Jasnah's (what I presume is) Shardplate. Again, no spren, just a glow. All in all, I lean towards the stormlight projected from the Radiant. The only Sprenplate theory I see as Viable is Bobbobkilu's and the ethical issues there make me think it has issues with being available to all Radiant orders. I'll take lack of support and adherence to realmatics over circumstantial evidence that seems to break the rules as I understand them. Edit: An additional spren theory, put forward by @Yata on discord that I actually really like. The Radiant creates the framework that we see with Stormlight, and the Spren enter, and are not stripped of their own identity, and not bonded, but seeded with investiture from the Spren and Radiant, similar to what Sja-anat has done to Glys. They aren't killed, and they aren't bonded, but become in essence the bonded pairs "children" as Glys is Sja-anat's son. Per this WoB, the Radiant and their bonded Spren are becoming one individual spiritually, with two minds. If the Spren and Radiant are one individual, then their identity should be matched. Seeding the power of the Spren into the lesser spren should create the "familiarity" that @Pagerunner mentions. This is a spren theory that I can actually get behind.
  2. With everything going on in the world at the moment, I haven't exactly been active here recently, but that definitely doesn't mean I'm gone. I love this place, and the fantastic community it's built. It is, and always will be my internet haven. Digging into the deep lore as heavily as I did after becoming active and my constant back and forth with @Extesian during that period will always be a fond memory, as well as wrestling with the tangled mess that was theoryland (bless you Arcanum). The OB prerelease and the intense and rapid fire theory mess that it was. And then, of course... @Oversleep and @Extesian. Long live the Hive. I miss you all. Happy anniversary to the best place I know.
  3. "healed" would mean no longer trapped as a blade. In which case I don't see anything stopping her from being just like any other spren. If it goes a different route, great, but I wouldn't call her "healed" otherwise. As I've said repeatedly in this thread and countless others I think the foreshadowing is pretty clear and consistent at this point.
  4. I have been struggling trying think of what in damnation that dagger could be, and I think my brain just leapt to a valid possibility. Tanavast created the Honorblade for the Heralds with the specific purpose of granting Surgebinding. Rayse created a blade of his own. Instead of granting an ability, it's intended to end the Oathpact. Edit: and the gem in the pommel is a sapphire. To match Jezrien. Ten blades for ten Heralds?
  5. That's actually specifically why I think they couldn't. I think any godmetal is going to work that way and just as with the shardblade scenario, no direct tie to Ruin would mean no ability to access the Investiture.
  6. Standard schpiel. "broken" does not mean every has to be Kaladin/Shallan/Dalinar levels of screwed up. There is absolutely plenty of evidence in the books about Adolin's insecurities and fears. The other Kholin's being Radiants may be a reason people dislike the idea, but it canonically makes him more likely to become a Radiant because of Connection. And frankly, the storyline in which we get Maya's name and she's summoned in under ten heartbeats is a setup that I find pretty telling. Dead blades take 10 heartbeats. Less means she's already healing.
  7. @Quantus This is a super old one... But with metal being Scadrials focus, I really don't believe it's possible for a metal to only be viable in one system over the others... If it has an effect in one Metallic Art, I think it will in the others as well... With a caveat. Just because you have an effect doesn't mean that that effect is accessible. For example the infamous shardblade WoB. If the problem is not having a tie to the Investiture, that doesn't mean that the metal doesn't have an effect. For example, say a non-scadrian burns lerasium and becomes Mistborn... They have a Connection to Preservation obviously, but might not to Ruin... So can they burn atium? So Trellium is something we've seen used for spikes and so far that's all... And currently, I don't think Trell has Invested in Scadrial to a point to create the tie necessary in people to allow them to use it for allomancy or feruchemy. So functionally, yes, I think that most godmetals will be Hemalurgically viable in ways the others aren't, because unlike them, Hemalurgy requires no Spiritual component on the part of the user. Just knowledge, Intent, and the proper metal. Mechanically though, I think that if a metal is viable in kne its viable in all, though additional hoops may be necessary to allow access to all systems.
  8. Don't know if it's a dream wob, or just a lost one, but either way I got nothing
  9. poll

    I completely disagree. She is a character who inherently distrust everyone and manipulates them, and over the short course of the story is forced to open up to Gaotona about things that she repeatedly lies to herself about. She has a very real and intense struggle, which is the key to her escape. If she hadn't done so, Gaotona would never have let her go.
  10. @Pathfinder seriously? I'm done here. The WoB was sharing because it was given to me and this is a discussion on Adolin as a character and as such it is relevant. It wasn't intended to prove anything. And again, me stating my opinion is not shutting down discussion. People are free to disagree. I've stated the way that I think things will play out. You, and many others disagree. That's fine. What's different here, is that you're twisting it around to say that me stating my own reasoning is somehow preventing others from doing the same. I don't have to agree with you. You don't have to agree with me. That's all fine. I've stated the reasons I disagree with you, and you've done likewise. That's still fine. Saying that my reason is somehow attacking others ability to speak? No. Have a good day.
  11. I think Avatars are something specific... And while others could definitely do what Autonomy has, per WoB, I don't think that they have.
  12. People are allowed to disagree with each other sure. Giving all opinions equal weight is never going to happen beyond empty words. Insisting that me stating my opinion and reasoning is somehow shutting down discussion is not something I agree with, and not going to change my arguments. If this discussion has resulted in anything, it at least had a lurker send me this extremely relevant WoB to Adolin's personality that I'm going to go and enter into Arcanum. If she agrees, I'll add in the questioners name for proper attribution, but for the time being, seeing as she didn't want to post it herself, I'll leave her anonymous.
  13. Yeah... That seems like a one off scene that's depressing as hell. Canon fodder and survival at the whims of chance. We already got to see that in the vision where Dalinar lost an arm and had to be rescued by a stoneward. Fun times. In order to teach others how to do what he did, he'd have to understand what he's doing. I don't think it will ever be common or easy. And I've yet to see a compelling realmatic argument in how a spren could be healed without restoring what they lost. You know I'm not talking about us here.
  14. And other than Dalinar, how many of those characters names do people remember? And how many characters are we going to have play the negotiator/peace broker? I didn't say suicide. I said sidelined. And being that every one of those characters save Dalinar is a minor character, I think you're making my point for me.
  15. Which is a cop out. It's literally the same job. How many times have we been told that each Highprince is essentially a king in their own right? If he can effectively be one, he can effectively be the other. And I think you're missing my point completely. Without powers, he will be a liability in combat with the other radiants. He will either continue anyway, and eventually die in the process... Or he'll step back from combat in which case he will be effectively sidelined from his current story role. Adolin is able to stand with the other characters, even in the face of horrible odds. The entire reason people like him as the "normal" perspective is because we see the action from the perspective of people without powers... Which is a role that's going to be less and less viable. If he becomes like other characters you mentioned, Gawx, or Fen, or Sebarial, or any of the many generals, or Highprinces, or nobles or random other characters... He becomes a minor character who has multiple other people at the same level, in the same role, that are all doing the exact same things he is, and his story role essentially becomes "Shallan's husband, Dalinar's son, and Renarin's brother." That's being sidelined. There would be absolutely nothing he is doing outside of his relationships to the other characters that isn't being fulfilled by a multitude of similarly minor characters. Because it was a general statement and not directed at you.
  16. And if Adolin were that willing to step back and serve the needed role, he'd be king and leading all of the armies. Not just in charge of house Kholin. Adolin is fairly selfless he'll step in and do what he thinks is needed in a pinch. But he's not going to delegate something he thinks he has the ability to accomplish himself... Even if he's wrong about the extent of his abilities. Frankly speaking, I don't see how Maya reviving via a bond is really all that farfetched anymore. We've already seen a spren die and be revived with Syl and Kaladin, and she started speaking to him again before he actually said the words and revived her... Maya was summoned in under the 10 heartbeats, and started speaking to Adolin... Which should mean that the bond is already forming and she's getting better. Not that there isn't more work to be done, but the hardest part should be forging a bond with a mentally "dead" spren in the first place. That parts already done in my opinion.
  17. The problem here, is one of Intent. If he means to cause harm, he gets nauseated to the point of incapacitation. The method shouldn't matter. Theres definitely some flexibility there, as we know that the prohibition applies to himself as well and he was able to insult someone into striking him intentionally... But then there's the question of his healing ability and the mental gymnastics of what constitutes "harm." Personally, I think mental games are the most sure bet, and harm cause as a byproduct. An awakened object task with defense that causes harm should work. One tasked with a command to kill is going to require a command, and the accompanied mental image, that should incapacitate him. In the poison example, if putting the poison on the drink wasn't a trigger in itself, the rioting with the purpose of getting someone to drink the poison should... It's complicated, which is really what makes it interesting.
  18. In every instance of those, except handing the blade off, he was in the thick of things. Leading from the front. And if he had his plate, do you think he'd have even considered handing Maya off? He gave the blade to Hrdalm because the man had plate and could hopefully take a hit where he knew he couldn't. If that weren't the case, and you think Adolin would have willingly stepped back, you have a very different read of Adolin than I do.
  19. Adolin was a duelist, and preferred the arena... In his own narrative he's said he now prefers the battlefield and has become a soldier. His activities at Thaylen field, throwing himself into fights that he has no chance in kind of prove the point. He's the type that leads from the front. Throwing soldiers into danger he's not willing to face himself isn't something he's going to do by choice.
  20. Bowling ball? Nah, it's a lightning quick dance through enemy lines, flicking a blade about. Graceful and deadly like a striking snake. Exactly the dance his dueling has prepared him for. And were speaking about Adolin. He's not ready to step back from fighting. So there is a third option. Death. He's going to get sidelined, or he's going to keep fighting. Powers or no powers.
  21. Szeth is not a normal situation.
  22. I absolutely think that Adolin is in the process of healing Maya. I don't think it's going to be quick, or easy, but the fact that she's speaking to him, even vaguely, makes me think the hardest part is already done. But first, some setup on what exactly I think is going on with deadeye and why I don't think there's actually anything "missing" from them. Yes, something was ripped out of the spren. I understand why people think that parts of them are "missing," I just disagree that what's missing was ever a part of what makes them up in the first place. When a spren transitions to the Physical in order to bond a Radiant, they turn stupid. They are sapient of themselves in the Cognitive, but are not designed to function in the Physical. When they transition, they are present in a realm that their Spiritual says that they shouldn't exist in, and that presence needs to be filled out somehow... Which I think is done by diminishing the only other aspect they have. Their Cognitive self. Once the bonding process begins, they're mind returns, in my opinion because they have s started to Spiritually intermingle with their bondmate. They are functioning as if they have a Physical aspect because they are sharing one with their Radiant. As the bond deepens, this grows stronger and stronger, until at third oath, they can actually manifest corporeally as a blade. So then what happens when the bond itself is ripped out of the spren? They haven't actually lost anything of themselves, but their Spiritual is still configured to say that they should exist Physically. Which, without a bondmate becomes a massive problem. They should have a Physical aspect, which without their Radiant to provide forces them to have one, and they become the blade. And dismissing the blade is not going to correct this problem, anymore than Kaladin and Co stopped needing food in Shadesmar when they were there Physically. The more Physical a spren is without a bond, the more must be robbed from their Cognitive Aspect to provide. A unbonded/newly bonded spren and a deadeye are suffering from the exact same issue, but at different levels of magnitude. Because of all of this, I think the only way to restore the spren is to give them back what was ripped out. A bond. They need the secondary Physical aspect a bond provides in order for their Cognitive Aspect to be restored. Which... Is going to be stupidly difficult. How do you develop a bond with a being who is incapable of the complex though necessary to share that bond with you? Firstly, I think you would need the gembond to start with to create a kind of I road to the spren in the first place. Secondly, I think meeting them in Shadesmar is absolutely crucial. It's one thing to treat the blade with respect, or even to understand intellectually that the sword you hold was a sapient being at one point... It's another thing entirely to face that being, damaged as its become, and come to still respect it and care for it. Which is exactly what Adolin did. He had an initial shock at the woman he'd never seen before screaming at him when he tried to summon his blade... But he overcame that and came to call her friend... And then she saved him and began speaking to him. So yes, I think that Adolin will become an Edgedancer... But I think there's still a fairly difficult road ahead. I think he'd have to essentially reach the point of being a Third Oath Edgedancer, where Maya would be able to naturally manifest as a blade for him before the bond will form and function normally, and before he gets any powers at all. As to people prefering Adolin remain a normy... I mean, to each their own, but I think remaining a normy ultimately means being sidelined. This fight has barely started and he's already out of his depth. The fights are only going to get more intense. Adolin gains power... Or he fades to the background.
  23. Jasnah, clearly denies the existence of a god that should be worshiped. An agnostic believes that there may or may not be a God, and that knowing that either doesn't matter, or is unknowable. An atheist believes that with no evidence of a greater power (in the case of the Cosmere, that would be greater than the Shards or Adonalsium or whatever else, I.E. "The God Beyond") then it doesn't exist. Jasnah's beliefs are presented as almost exactly the same as mine. She's an atheist.
  24. You mean this one? A lot of the elements of Szeth's proposed storyline in that thread I still hope for, but at this point, I think it's most likely that Taln simply summoned his blade back, and has it dismissed.
  25. That's not Hoid weirdness. That's just the way it works.