Uilos

If Era 4 of Mistborn is supposed to be the Space Opera one, it might be in direct relation to that. Kelsier gets Scadrians to go after Bavadin directly to merge Autonomy to Discord/Harmony. Gives a great goal, and space fighting a God is within the genre.

Re-read TLM, and something struck me that I don't think has been mentioned. Autonomy, out of all the Shards in the Cosmere, is the perfect foil for Harmony as of Era 2. Sazed's problems stem from the inability to act while also maintaining the diametrically opposed forces of Ruin and Preservation. Autonomy is nothing but that, it is Independence of Action though without any seeming purpose other than to spread what it sees as that independence. It's like if Ayn Rand were suddenly a virus. Out of all the Shards we have encountered, Autonomy more than anything is a perfect foil for this new shardholder. But also, there is a method to Auto's 'madness'. It's been said before that Odium sees Saze as a massive threat to his plans, what of Autonomy's? Sazed is 2/16ths away from becoming Adonalsium 2.0, closer than anyone we are aware of since the Shattering. What if Autonomy was trying to take out the new competition, while Odium and the others were busy dealing with their own issues, Autonomy had the most access to take care of this one. And what if, by doing so, Autonomy accidentally revealed a way for Sazed/Harmony to resolve their inaction? By revealing themselves and their influence, Sazed is now intimately aware of Bavadin and Autonomy and Kelsier is (according to him) tired of being inactive. What if, come the third or fourth era of mistborn, we see Harmony (or Discord, as previous posters have pointed out) getting one back on Autonomy and reabsorbing that Shard as well? By taking Autonomy, Harmony would be able to act and move, allowing better balance/counterbalance throughout Scadrial/The Cosmere by creating avatars of preservation and ruin. So that's my theory going forward. Harmony balancing out Autonomy's expansionist attitude, Autonomy allowing Harmony an outlet to act. Thoughts?

As something so invested, I don't think Vin will be able to push on the Plate or Blade. I still have money on Vin, because Vin has more innate skill while Kaladin has to work at learning his craft. She's better. And she's a killer, while he's a soldier. There's a difference in thinking and tactics.

So as I've been listening through the books again and reading through the forums, I've been trying to figure out something. If magic comes from the Shards, then which Shard made Allomancy? According to Sazed, Allomancy is of Preservation, but look at most of what it does. Most of the applications are short term and often destructive. That sounds more like Ruins pervue than Preservation, yet the mists (which is of preservation) react to Allomancers. My theory is thus: Because Ruin and Preservation couldn't do much of anything without the other having a hand in it (read: the constant struggle for either to get anything done at the end of HoA) then all three Metallic Arts carry both within them, but favor one or the other. Feruchemy is the art of preserving, hands down. You store away your attributes for later use, either in a time of need or to supercharge what is already there. It's long term and deliberate, it's of Preservation. But, there is enough of Ruin in it for copperminds to suffer the same corruption as non-metallic recordings. Allomancy is the flip. It's short term, and often only for immediate or near to immediate use. It relies on metal as a catlyst to burn the investiture inside the person. It is closer to Ruin, which is easiest to see in the power Atium gives. Quick bursts of flashing insight in to the immediate world around them, making them better to kill. While we don't know if that notion of Atium helps to kill is a product of Atium itself or the world it lives in, Elends final chapters make the thought ambiguous. Allomancy favors Ruin, but is birthed by Preservation. That Lerasium burns for everyone says something. Hemalurgy is the most directly built by Ruin. It is destructive in nature. However, I find it ironic that it does, albeit not perfectly, preserves the power it stored. It's leaking, but it's holding in the power. This is me just trying to get my thoughts out and seeing how other people see it. I'm not sure if it's been discussed before.

You beat me to the punch. Up vote for you my friend!

We've met that shrub before. It has been to distant worlds. Watching and waiting. While others hide in shadows and pocket realms, it proud,y declares itself... "I Am A Stick!"

There's a recent WoB (I don't have it on me, but it's in the Cosmere page) that states the Weapon that caused the shattering was destroyed in the process. Edit: Here's the thread http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/53219-confirmation-the-weapon-that-killed-adonalsium-no-longer-exists/

Which leads me to believe that the Knights gave up their Shards because, I think, they finally cracked further. These were people who were chosen because they hit the wall, or rock bottom, and were tasked with continuously hitting it back. After a while, something has got to break and the Knights seemed pre-broke to begin with.

Actually, I just tracked it down to WoR, 32nd chapter. I'll have to find the quote later. disregard this tangent. This is not the topic you're looking for, you can go about your business.

Can you confirm that last one please?

I think that what seperates a Radiant from just being broken is that they own up to it and swear, literally, to do better. Kaladin, Shallan, and Dalinar are all brilliant but flawed people racked with guilt and denial of a lot of their past. They have all gained tremendous power when they come to terms with it, and swear to uphold something higher than their personal beliefs. Someone who has lived a facade forced to tell deepest truths. A man who is prejudiced swearing to uphold All life. Dalinar is different, but he reverses his role of being used by the storms to speaking amongst them. He learns to drop violence and become something else, something higher than what they are. Which just begs the question of what Jasnah and Renarin swore.

Conversations that probably have happened: Officer arresting Wayne: Now is "Wayne" your first or last name? Wayne: Sure. Officier: Which one is it? Wayne: which what? Officer: Name? Wayne: Mine's Wayne. Boy, you must be beat. I just told you that a minute ago. You might be coming down with something. Quick, tell me your name. Officier: --Tells Him-- Wayne: That's a terrible name. I'll take it off your hands for this piece of gum and a stick of dynamite I have here. Officer: wait, what? Wayne: Alright, fine. The gum, the dynamite, and I'll trade you back the badge I swiped from you earlier. Should change your name to 'Haggle'

I don't have the exact quote with me, but Khriss is explicitly stating the Shardbearers killed Adonalsium for various different reasons.

It would make sense for Preservation to preserve that pattern.

I don't think that Wax is a Steel Savant. Savants have a dependancy on burning their metal constantly. Wax is a Steel adept, in that he uses it constantly and expertly. Spook wasn't just supersensitive to everything because of his Tin, he was addicted to his Tin burning. Wax has a lot of issues, dependancy on Steel isn't one of them.

They're living in the world that five Mistborn were responsible for. Vin, Elend, TLR, Kelsier and Spook. The entire series seems to be a tap dance around the notion of trying to become a Mistborn and maybe even a Fullborn. We're shown that, in a world where people only have one or two powers, someone with all of them is OP'd as hell. I think Mistborn still applies. I just don't think they are the focus. And we know that era 3 deals directly with a Mistborn.

As for why Hoid held on to the coin. Hoid seems to have taken an interest in Wax, appearing at the Yomen wedding which turned to be the tipping point in Wax's involvement in the Sets affairs, he even goes so far as to become a member of his staff for a time until finally throwing the coin as another guise. I think that Hoid is just as much interested in Trell and the Invading Presence as Harmony is, and has infinitely more agency than Sazed in the matter. I think that Hoid having Kelsier's coin is either A) more interested in accomplishing his goals than harbor a centuries long grudge (insofar as it's not part of his goal in the first place) or B ) Isn't working with Kelsier, and just gave Wax a heads up of who created the Bands in the first place.

I think we have a very large clue in The Letter. The writer, whom is presumed to be Hoid, says that Rayse was already dangerous before he became a Holder. Perhaps it is Rayse's Connection to Odium, that of all the Shardholders, he is the most compatible with his Shard. Also, I think there is something to be said for Odium's campaign of splintering Shards. Is the fact that he has splintered many of the Shards a sign of power, or the Source of his power?

Knowing Kelsier, it would of course be the "Survival Shard" that's supposedly drifting in space. While WoB says that isn't its Intent, Kelsier would definitely be a sympathetic vessel for a shard looking to "Survive"

Some times, you don't feel in character until you find that special something. For me, I can't do a fight scene until I've done a small sword form over and over, going from how I would use the sword to how the character would use it. Other times it's a piece of jewelry or even shoes. Wayne's prop of choice are hats, and accents.

At this point, we don't know how fullborn Kelsier is. He's naturally a Mistborn, but how much Feruchemy he has thanks to the spikes is unknown. As for Marasi and Wax, probably not. The BoM was a glorified Metalmind. Lerasium is the only known way to make one a Mistborn without a Spike. I do think that the Bands were Kelsier and Spooks endgame research, a means of gifting power without needing Hemalurgy.

I've noticed in some of the posts the spoiler cuts that allow you to open and close text that might be considered spoilery. I'm still getting the hang of this forum and would love to know how to add those. Thanks in advance.

I think this subject is asking two separate questions. The innate talent of Feruchemists, and Wayne. As we've noticed in Allomancy, there are different levels of skill and power depending on the person. Vin, someone with less than a year's worth of training, matched Kelsier in a steelpushing match. She also displayed advanced Bronze-sense with Marsh, who expressly stated him it took months to get to the level she was at on one of her first tries (this may not be a great example, as she was Spiked). But there is nothing to suggest that level of skill does not exist in Feruchemy, especially since the 'fuel' for the process is the person and not an outside source like metal. You're storing Health, how much Health do you have to store? Some people are naturally healthier than others. May be it takes people long to store certain attributes than others. This would be most prevalent in Ferrings than traditional full Feruchemists, who were specifically bred and therefore had some traits raised higher. Training does compensate for certain things, like memorizing. However, some people are just really good at memorizing things than others. As for Wayne, his behavior is believable in the context that Wayne is not by our definition of 'sane'. I'm convinced that Wayne has some form of personality disorder, possibly antisocial with avoidant traits or avoidant with antisocial traits (hard to pin down because even in Wayne's POV he's erratic and you're not sure what face he is presenting is genuine). He is impulsive and erratic with a low degree of regard for social norms. He also doesn't like to take the blame for something. Most of his dialogue with people who call him on his behavior results in him either having an excuse or ready made answer or he simply obfuscates the entire thing in innane troll logic. I think Wax provides Wayne with an ethical (if not moral) anchor, as the two times we see him commit violence is when Wax wasn't in the picture (either before their meeting or presumed dead). So Waynes behavior and mannerisms are possibly his way of avoiding himself. I don't think Wayne exactly likes himself. And remember, this is the guy who arranged to drown a wedding because he opposed his best friend marrying a woman who, in retrospect, actually shares a lot of issues with Wayne. So to combat this, Wayne may have just trained himself to not focus on his Self and focus on others. How they move and how they speak and the hats they wear. It may be how he developed his empathy/morality. It may also be how he copes, like Steris and her lists. The actor Peter Sellers was reported to be like this, being able to improvise personalities so complete yet not having one really himself. So, as far as storing Identity goes, I think Wayne would have a very hard time at it than others. I don't think he has a sense of Self and his entire view is based on those around him, which is why he's a bit attached to his way of thinking in regards to Wax and Ranette.

Just read through that scene. You're right, it's the book and not the bar.

She wore it before, and it's presumed she wears it regularly before that.