Kyats Rani

Point. But Grindelwald was the original counterpart to Dumbledore (the Dark Lord vs the Lord of Light), like Ruin was to Preservance, so...

Ok, you're making my head hurt now... I was thinking about it, and at some point I decided it would be wonderfully ironic to have him as Gryffindor, but then I realized I don't remember the original Mistborn books as well as I should, so it's hard to say. But the idea of Lord Ruler being a magical Dark Lord coming from the house of supposed 'good guys' is too brilliant to pass up. Then again, Slytherin is ambition and cunning, and he's got those for sure. And the Ravenclaw intelligence. The only house he couldn't get to would be Hufflepuff. Can we just send him to Durmstrang? TenSoon as Sirius Black. They were even the same type of a dog I think (big, black, shaggy). Though I do see him potentially working as Fluffy (from Philosopher's Stone).

I have a very little chance of ever getting to ask Brandon this, but if anyone would, I'd be curious to know Kelsier in Slytherin and Marsh in Gryffindor would be brilliant. On the first glance (considering their reputations and so on) it would seem that it should be the other way around, but if you get to know them better it all makes sense You killed me with Clubs as Filch. (I read Mistborn so long ago I barely remember Clubs, but that line would be hilarious anyway) Overall, I totally agree with you on all counts. I mean, I do like the thought of Spook being a Gryffindor, but he would make a wonderful Puff too. Also, Dox could propably be part-goblin since he handles the money (my friend made this joke...) Would kandra be allowed to be students at Hogwarts? Or would they be considered a 'magical creature'? Because if we're sorting them, I'd say MeLaan to Gryffindor and TenSoon... Hufflepuff maybe?

Controversial opinion, but I never really liked Vin much, so can't truly say for her. You may be right though. As for Kelsier he's such a mix, he'd either be a very Gryffindorish Slytherin or a very Slytherinish Gryffindor. Personally I'd put him with the snakes too, but I may be biased, since I'm apparently a Slytherin myself and Kell's my favourite Yup, Wax is hard, same for Marasi. I guess Wax is slightly more Gryff and Marasi slightly more Claw (considering his past in the Roughs). Wayne though? He is very loyal, especially to Wax, a bit less on the hardworking part. With his conman persona, sneakiness and the way he plays his 'roles' he could make a very good Slytherin (then again, personal bias, I love Wayne too). But then again, as a Puff he would fit in with characters such as Tonks from Potterverse... Also Steris is definitely a Ravenclaw. Personally I believe that all Terris people from first trilogy (Sazed, Tindwyl) would be in Ravenclaws since they focus so much on gathering and understanding knowledge. Ham is a Puff, but Spook does strike me more as a Gryffindor, shy and unimposing at first, but very courageous and badass in the end (kind of like Neville Longbottom). Any idea on Dox? I admit, he escapes me completely. Marsh too is a bit ambiguous, though propably Slytherin. It's scary that this is the house I'd sort most of them into, since I also think it would fit Allrianne (spoiled girl from old family, sneaky enough to hide being a Rioter, has agendas, even if it's mostly seducing Breeze, and is not as ditzy as she seems at first glance - cunning and ambitious indeed).

Hey This may not be exactly a discussion about the Mistborn books per se, but just a fun question that I sorta need for fanfiction writing purposes. That said, if I put the thread in a wrong place on the forum, I apologize and definitely don't object to it being moved accordingly. Same goes for using wrong tags, I've no idea how to tag properly. Anyway, if you were to sort the characters from Mistborn series (and that includes Wax and Wayne series, because I love those guys) into Hogwarts houses from Harry Potter, how would it go? Personally, I'm only sure that Elend and Sazed would fit in Ravenclaw and Breeze maybe in Slytherin, though I'm very open to all suggestions. I'm actually completely torn whether Kelsier is a Gryffindor (stupidly brave hero type) or Slytherin (you can not tell me he wasn't very cunning and VERY ambitious with his grand plan). So, if you have a free while to wonder about this or if you already have any opinion on the subject, I'd gladly hear them. Again, don't take this too seriously, it's really just for fun and maybe to wonder about which values the characters mostly represent and what makes them tick... Anyway, I eagerly wait for any ansers!

Lift - that makes sense. But since she calls Surgebinding her "awesomeness" that would mean that Nightwatcher forced/convinced Wyndle to bond her. I'm not saying it's impossible, it's actually valid, but what about the fact that she exists partially in Cognitive Realm (thus being able to touch the spren) and that she can turn food into stormlight (which may be a direct consequence of existing in Cognitive Realm). I think this is more likely to be her boon - I mean, where else it could come from? Dalinar - the part about Nightwatcher is pretty obvious (at least in my eyes). As for the rest... I don't know if Cultivation will be Splintered, personally I don't think so (which doesn't make it impossible of course). But for some time now I was thinking that Honor will be reforged and Dalinar will become it's Shardholder (who would be better?), so I agree with your theory. I'd really like to see this

Personally, I have nothing against Renarin. He seems to me as a potentially interesting character, but he appears rarely in the book and doesn't get any pov, so it's rather easy to forget about him. I guess more people would like him if he had some more spotlight, because now he's just rather easy to miss. Readers always feel strongly about important characters but often don't have any opinion about those more in the background. Now, about the connection between characters' diabilities/psychical conditions and the way they're received... I agree that people suffering from similar conditions feel better being able to relate to a character on a personal level. I think it's a good thing. And while I strongly believe that it's wrong for a reader to hate a character because of said character's condition, I think such things shouldn't be taken so much into account. I mean, I think that using a psychical condition, disability or a hard past to justify everything the character does or claim any criticism to be disrespectful on this ground is also wrong. Yes, such things can explain why certain character acts as he/she does, but it doesn't mean that said character can't be criticised for his/her mistakes. I think it'll be better if I explain it on an example - my opinion's of characters. I actually kind of like Renarin but I think that some of the things he did were stupid or reckless. Joining the duel was reckless, but I admire Renarin for this - it was also brave and it showed his devotion to his brother. But keeping Glys and his visions secret for so long? I'm no expert so I don't know if it's related to his autism or not, but I believe that doing so was stupid. No matter if it can be explained or not, I see this action as a mistake on his part and that's it. Now, Kaladin. Kaladin is my favourite character so far. It doesn't mean I don't want to hit him on the head with a book, hard, when he does something stupid (like the time when he challenged Amaram). Other times, when he's particularly sad or beaten down, I think he needs a hug And while I understand he's depressed, some of his actions and decisions he makes (possibly because of this) annoy me - like the way he refused to trust anyone with light eyes. He may have had reasons and all, but I was angry he judged people because of eye color and not who they were. I judge him regardless of his condition - I may understand but it doesn't mean I have to approve (again, of actions not of his feelings). As for Shallan, well, I dislike her. Very much. Though I admit she had her moments (one or two... ). Her past can explain why she acts the way she does, but it doesn't mean I have to like her, right? I guess it boils down to whether or not I'd like to spend time with such person or not in real life. I think that if I had a chance to meet Renarin, I'd befriend him without any problems. With Kaladin too - though I'd propably argue with him often (but hey, I argue with my best friend at least once a week about some stupid things and we're still best friends since we were 3 or 4). But I honestly can't stand people like Shallan. My interactions with such always end in a big row. How can I like her in the book if I know that if she were, say, a girl I know from college, we'd hate each other with passion? It doesn't have anything to do with psychical conditions or whatsoever - I judge characters as I'd judge real life people. After all, it's a person we interact with not a specimen of a certain condition. We should be respectful but it doesn't mean we should look only at this. Now, I hope my post isn't offensive in any way to anyone. If so, then know that I'm sorry, it wasn't my intention, and please let me know why it is so - I'll try to learn for the future.

Apart from that one scene he wasn't that much of a jerk... I don't know, I don't have any issue with this conversation... :ph34r: When you point it out I guess you're right, but personally I didn't see anything wrong there. I was pretty sure he has given the Honorblade to Dalinar when he came back to Urithiru... I guess I'll have to find my book. I have a feeling that he would still want to cover up for Moash if possible (he's way too loyal to his men, even if they don't deserve it). Or at least he wouldn't want to give that information away if it's possible to keep it hidden. But if Dalinar ever asked, Kaladin would answer truthfully - Syl will make sure of that. I really hope that Kaladin won't backward his character development to go back to mistrusting Dalinar because of Amaram... He should be above that now.

Wow That's awesome! I can totally see this happening! The child is completely calm in Navani's arm, Dalinar and Renarin managed to pull themselves together and stop laughing, Adolin stands grumpily, mentally cursing that storming kid. The doors open. Jasnah enters the room and takes in her surrounding. Her eyes widen at the sight of chaos. "Not again!" she moans, covering her eyes with her hand. Renarin starts to chuckle again. He has heard the story of how Adolin tortured Jasnah when she was forced to babysit him. Or, to be exact, many similar stories... Navani smiles mischievously. "Jasnah, dear, since Adolin has proven to be completely unreliable and incapable of watching over a child, mostly due to his mindset being very similar to his supposed charge's..." Adolin grimaces. "Mashala! Please..." He tries to cover his embarassed blush. He has had enough of being laughed at. "...we are left without a responsible person to look after your nephew this evening" continued Navani, ignoring Adolin completely. She had a better idea now. "So I thought maybe you could..." Jasnah paled. She only came to this room to ask Navani where she has placed a book she needed. She didn't expect to find this! The whole sight reminded her way too much of one of those feral evenings when she was forced to somehow contain a certain blond bundle of energy. She looked at her nephew horrified. The boy seemed to realize this, as he directed his gaze at her and beamed happily. "Jasnah! Jasnah!" he shrieked in joy. "Jasnah huggie!" he added, making grabby motions with his hand in her direction. If that was possible, Jasnah paled even more. She stood there for a while, frozen, until she rapidly turned around and left the room. She barely stopped herself from running, trying to save some of her dignity. "Noooooooooooooooo! Jasnah back! Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!" screamed the toddler. The princess quickened her steps. "Jasnah, where are your manners?" asked Navani loudly. "How can you be like that?" joined in Dalinar. "You are breaking the poor child's heart!" His words were backed up by another wail. "You should be ashamed" chimed in Renarin. Jasnah stopped and looked back. She cringed slightly at the sight of her covered in tears and snot nephew motioning in her direction. "I have important work to do" she claimed, fighting to keep her voie even. "What could be more important than your own family?" asked Navani. Jasnah looked from her mother to her uncle and cousins. One glance at Adolin's face brought back all the times he managed to unleash the sheer force of Damnation in her presence years ago. "No" she said. "Never again. I'm not spending time with any child named Kholin ever again!" With that she turned around and left quickly. Her dignity forgotten anyways. The other four Kholins looked at each other and bursted out laughing, while Navani coaxed her grandson to calm down. "You know, Adolin" started Dalinar, barely able to speak between bursts of laughter. "It's your fault she's like that." Adolin scowled. Renarin looked at his brother, completely aghast. "What have you done to her anwyay? I've never seen Jasnah like that!" he claimed, shocked. Dalinar intended to recall one of the most colorful stories and Adolin was getting ready to defend what's left of his dignity, when Navani butted in the conversation. "Now, gentlemen..." she started, accompanied by the prince's soft sobs how "Jasnah doesn't love him at all". "We still need someone to watch over him this evening. We already decided that Adolin is not a good choice, so..." Her gave wandered towards the other two. Renarin immediately backed away. "I would be honored, but I have duty with Bridge 4 today, so..." With that he bowed and escaped the room. Dalinar was desperately looking for an excuse, as he has had enough of hyper-active children ever since his own son grew up. "Well, dear, I'm afraid I have some duties to attend to..." He looked to Adolin for help. Now, Adolin honestly considered leaving him alone to this as a revenge from laughing at him, but eventually he decided it's too harsh of a punishment. He smirked mischievously. "Of Bridge 4 speaking... What about we dump the kid on Bridgeboy's head?"

From this perspective, Wit really acted like a jerk. But it could also be that he tried to encourage Adolin's sense of posessivness - he wanted to force him to fight for the girl he cares for... Though even if, it was still a bad joke on his part. Personally I think Wit is amusing, especially in a way he interacts with others. I would really like to see more of him together with Jasnah in an interlude... But he has already given the Honorblade to Dalinar... I think he wouldn't start the subject himself, because if he were to speak at all, he would speak the whole truth. I guess I simply perceive the matter in a different way

In the situation I described, I think Kaladin would be the kind of person to try and take care of the most important tasks (looking over the prince) himself... Then Jasnah would come along and relieve him from said duty only to find much more suitable caretaker Kal propably wouldn't know who in Kholinar to trust enough, but Jasnah knows better. And yes - the situation would make opening the Oathgate the top priority - Navani is the best person to babysit the little prince Oh, I'd like to see the situation in which Elhokar's son is in Urithiru and Adolin is forced to look after him for a while. He would be all "This kid is some kind of a hyper-active skyeel! How in the name of Almighty I'm supposed to deal with him?!" only to hear Dalinar, Navani and Jasnah (in unison) saying: "You were even worse". At this point Renarin bursts out laughing I don't think he ever claimed to love her (but I may be forgetting something), though it is rather obvious conclusion... As to failing to say the right words on time - that's your interpretation, we only know he failed her somehow but in a different way than the others (who died). While your idea is very valid, it's not completely sure Of course she was important, the question is - is she going to appear again and if so is she going to still be important to him? I think my only real issue with this is that whenever Tarah appears in the books, she and Kaladin will already have a history together so everything in their relationship will be worked out from there. And I really like it much, much more to see the love blossoming directly on page - not rekindling of a feeling that was there before... All of my ideas have something around 1% of credibility - it could be possible, but not a chance it will happen But still, I like them... And I guess there's nothing wrong in hoping I will be right in something (not necessarily this, but something).

I think it could be possible... But I guess he wouldn't come up with such idea by himself. Though if somebody hinted such possibility at him... That's amazing But hey, Jasnah was only a teenager then (I think she's about 10 years older than Adolin). Now, as an adult woman she's propably gotten better, even if she's not pleased with having to care for a child. Besides there's no telling that Elhokar's son would be such energy volcano as little Adolin was I am well aware of that... And yes, I know that the possibility of another important character being introduced in book 3 is next to nothing. But hey, still can dream, right? As for Tarah... I barely even noted her being referenced to Not to mention being interested by her. To me she didn't seem special, she was just... well, she was there in the past, but now? A memory nothing more...

True that Well, Adolin never minded Wit's jokes about his courtships... I don't know, maybe that was Hoid's way of saying "settle down finally"? As for the part with Kaladin and Shallan - I thought it was funny I didn't read it as Wit having bad intentions towards Adolin, he just wanted to be amusing and I think he knew Kaladin wouldn't do that anyway. I think Kaladin may not start speaking on his own, but when Dalinar asks him something related to the matter (where is Moash if nothing else) then he will answer truthfully. It's not his style to lie, besides Syl wouldn't be happy with him if he tried to.

Me too, but with Amaram, the impact would be more powerful - he hates him much more. I think that upon meeting Roshone again Kaladin will come to the conclusion that he's just a selfish and pitiful bastard, which is still better than what he thinks of Amaram. Wait... I recall Kaladin in prison only once (after the duel)... But I think you mean also the time when he was in a slave wagon, right? Anyway, then it's like that - first imprisonment: he gives up, second imprisonment: he almost goes crazy, becomes angry and swears not to be locked up again. And then, the third imprisonment - he goes willingly and tries to make the best out of it, knowing that he's not really locked up because he's capable of leaving whenever he wishes to. As for the secret vigilante... Yes, Kaladin is usually very obvious and outspoken in what he does. But he's smart. I like to think that the plan was something like: use Syl-blade to defend darkeyes, so they will think that they're being protected by someone highborn, use mundane weapons and worn clothes to defend lighteyes so they'll think that they're being protected by someone lowborn. Kind of trying to patch the differences between them. But that wouldn't work if anybody saw that he's the one doing both things. I think that Syl may propose him to hide his face... And I never planned to kill the innocent kid. He survives. Kaladin takes him to Urithiru, being forced to babysit a toddler for some time. I guess it would be nice if the boy grew to like him very much, but in my plans he always ends up adoring Syl Anyway, after Elhokar is killed, the little boy becomes the king. But since he's too young, Dalinar acts as his regent. Navani takes to rising her grandson with the help of Dalinar and his sons. They make sure the prince grows into a better person then his parents were... I didn't try to imply that Aesudan was unfaithful, I never thought of it. But now that you mention the possibility... It makes all too much sense, with Elhokar spending last 6 years on Shattered Plains... Aesudan found herself pregnant with someone so she quickly arranged to visit her husband in the warcamp and later claimed the child to be his... That could make a good story. And would explain why Jasnah wanted to assasinate her I don't have many ideas for Jasnah Before she comes to Kholinar she was busy with whatever she was planning in the epilogue. Prefarably together with Wit - their interactions are hilarious Then she arrives, sees the state the city is in and tries to take control. But she's informed that somebody is already in charge. She's very unhappy with this and demands to be taken to this person. On her way she sees how well everything is going, how the wounded are being helped and so on, and she decides that whoever took charge of the city did a very good job of it. Her anger subsides - now she's curious. Finally she meets Kaladin. He's unwilling to believe who she is - Jasnah Kholin was murdered after all. She proves her identity to him (maybe with the help of Ivory, I'd actually want to see Syl interacting with Ivory - with any Nahel spren actually) and he apologizes (grudgingly), informing her that he's a captain of Dalinar's guard. Upon learning what happened in Kholinar and to Aesudan, Jasnah relieves Kal from the babysitting duty (after all, it's her nephew) and takes charge of everything in political sense - Kaladin still leads the guards/city defense and is responsible for helping common people. They share responsibilities, trying to figure out what to do with the city. Jasnah also contacts Dalinar. They don't believe she's who she claims to be (they'll answer for this mistake later, when she meets them personally ). Dalinar orders Kaladin to secure the city and bring the prince to Urithiru. Renarin suggests they bring the city to Urithiru - there's enough space and everybody would be safe. Kal leaves Jasnah to work on the Oathgate and makes sure that everyone gather in the palace (or however big is the range of the gate), gathering supplies and useful (and not destroyed) things from around the whole city. Jasnah figures out the lock and they go to Urithiru. Citizens are willing to follow their princess and Kaladin becomes considered a hero. Some (especially darkeyes) may even start to hero-worship him. He's not very comfortable with this. I have some theories about Liss (my favourite one is that she's the Herald Chana, but there's little to no evidence in favor of this ). Let's just say she decides that the queen needs to go, but killing the prince would cause too many problems. Now, Tarah... I get your point, but I'm not sure if I want to see her again. Yes, Kaladin deserves someone. I just tend to think that it should be a character we haven't seen yet. A girl he meets in Kholinar maybe. One of my favourite scenarios is a lowborn lighteye young woman. She's unhappy with her position in society - she's a woman so all she can do is read/write (useful, but boring), engage in music or art (never had any talent in them, so she dislikes them) and... well little else. At least nothing practical. She always dreamed of being allowed to fight, to make a real change. In secret she trained archery (easier to practice alone than sword/spear I think). When the riots start she tries to blend in among the rioters (she decided to support them, because her family wasn't important or rich, and queen's stupidity left them in a bad situation), but she never heard of eye drops before. She's very lucky nobody in the crowd saw her eyes from beneath the hood. But suddenly a strange man appears - and he talks to the rioters convincing them to stop and try to help the people instead of assaulting lighteyes. Half of the group listens to him. The leader though tries to beat down this man but gets easily disarmed and defeated, but to the girl's surprise, not killed or even much hurt. Then others become afraid and decide to call it a night. They're going to try another day, when nobody will get in their way. Now, she won't have any of this. The lighteye they were about to assault was favoured by the queen and one of those who had caused her family's suffering. She's proud and determined, so when other's leave, she approaches that strange man and tries to force him to answer her questions (mostly along the lines of "why do you meddle in this?" or "why protect this brightlord when he doesn't desrve it?"). She attacks him with a knife, but he obviously doesn't want to hurt her. She tries to use it to her advantage. Unfortunetely, they cause a commotion. The guards come out and see them. They claim them burglars and try to kill them. The strange man protects her (no matter how much she claims she does not need protection) and tries to dispose of the man without killing them. He even stops her from slitting the throat of one of them. He grabs her and they escape, but later she pushes him away and runs home. But there was something strange about this man. She's curious and keeps trying to spot him in a crowd. It's not very hard - he comes to her family's shop to buy a new knife (they're blacksmiths). She later follows him and finds out where he stays. She's determined to find out who he is and why is he so strange (he helps everyone, even those who doesn't deserve it or even try to kill him). She's being sneaky - he's not aware that she's spying on him (or so she thinks). Her curiosity is piqued up when she spots a windspren constantly keeping him company. One day she sees him risking his life to protect a group of urchins from city guard. Then he gets hurt while saving life of one of those guards. Ignoring his own wound he helpes the urchins and another guard whom he hit too hard. She hides back in the alley, sure that he hasn't seen her. But he did. And he catches her, demanding explanation as to why was she following him. So she asks why is he helping everyone. When he answers "because they all cannot protect themselves", she shuts up and ponders his words. She stops following him after that, but wonders if she'll meet him again. Ok, enough for now. This post is already long and full of ramblings. I may continue this next time

Yeah, I guess you're right. I actually forgot the larkin I agree with the fact that regular Surgebinders aren't going to be able to do this. But maybe the Voidbringers? If they could steal stormlight they'd be even more dangerous and hard to defeat. Well, I like Hoid's character because I like to read his banters... And I am curious as to what is his real purpose, but only as an additional trivia, because the regular plot in SA is more interesting. I don't remember Wit ever making fun of Adolin... He targeted Renarin mostly. And Renarin handled him pretty well in WoK Well, their backgrounds may be far away, but personalities not that much (if we go with the idea of Adolin becoming the new Blackthorn). Of course Kelsier is way more, I don't know how to call it, intense and ruthless than Adolin could possibly become, but still if we were to see Adolin leading a team (and his own army) then I can see him doing this in a similar way to how Kelsier led his crew. Yes, the part with keeping Moash's crime secret is going to be a big problem. I can see Dalinar feeling betrayed and being angry with Kaladin, but with time he'll accept the situation. The relations between them will go back to normal, but Dalinar will keep a healthy dose of mistrust...

I agree. Completely. And then those he helped before or those that saw him helping others against common sense will rally up to him. At least some of them will. Propably the most meaningful would be if Kaladin actually saved Amaram - he wants this man dead, prefarably a painful death, but seeing him in a danger that he can prevent will force him to stand up to protect him, even against his personal hate. Both. And I remember being surprised when my dad told me to start watching Star Wars from 4th episode instead of the 1st. Personally, I always wanted my own R2-D2 And an ewok from the last part. I hate Twilight and all those modern vampire-romance things... Where are the ruthless, bloodthirsty, changing into bats creatures? The new Dracula movie did quite a good job compared to all those popular books/movies. I saw it in a cinema with my friend - we both cracked at seeing Tywin Lannister at the end Nice one. Especially the part when he rallies up both nobility and rebellion. I'd really like to see that. I'm only very partial on Tarah... I don't know, I'm not sure if I want to see her back. I like the relationships that are developed on-page, not somewhere in the past that we know nothing of :ph34r: In my idea, right after Kaladin becomes lighteyed to go by the guards, he forces his meeting with the queen and her advisors (if there are any). I also thought about the spanreed thing - they were informed that Kaladin will come and he is to be trusted, but the queen knows better and will have none of that. When Kal tries to talk some sense into her (in a surprisingly civil way) he earns himself a trip to the prison. He goes and stays there willingly. Of course, he could cut a hole in the wall and walk/fly away, but he doesn't want to do this now. He's not imprisoned this time - it's his choice. He talks to the guards and other prisoners. He decides to free them as they were sentenced not for crimes but on Aesudan's irrational whim. He manages to get some of the guards to his side. Not everyone is happy with what the queen is doing - living a lavish life when her people starve. With the help of his new allies Kaladin frees himself and the prisoners. The guards decide to join the rebellion as well. Now, Kaladin is aware that while the rebellion is in right, they shouldn't be allowed to do what they plan (it involves overthrowing the queen and so on). He mingles in with the rebels but tries to find another way. He convinces the people of rebellion to focus on the good of the others first, not on revenge. He leads them to gather supplies for starving (often stealing from the rich, but making sure that those still have enough left to live) and helps healing the ill and wounded. I imagine some kind of disease to spread over Kholinar and Kal will try to stop the epidemy, organising hospitals and isolating ill from healthy so teh disease won't spread. He still has the spheres borrowed from the king - he spends some of them on medicines for the people. This money belongs to the king so he has the right to use them to help the kingdom, right? (Well, I guess he will ahve to answer for this later on) He cannot save everyone, but he teaches others what to do. At the same time he keeps meeting with lighteyes - both minor and high-dahn ones. He tries to get them to his side - it's way easier with those of low dahns, but a small number of more important ones trusts him too (mostly those loyal to Dalinar). But of course, many people, both light and dark eyed, refuse to listen to him. The rebellion breaks in two - those who follow Kaladin to help people and those who try to get revenge on lighteyes. The second ones he tries to stop, but they claim him an enemy as well (while meeting with rebellion and so on he keps his eyes dark - either not using Stormlight or thanks to the eye drops; he wants them to see him as one of them, because he still doesn't consider himself a lighteye). Those that are against him gain followers more quickly. Rebels and common people don't care so much about surviving, they want revenge. Some bolder ones keep trying to assasinate lighteyes. Kaladin stops them whenever he can, protecting the lighteyes. At such times he hids his face and uses a regular spear to fight. When some lighteyes try to murder the darkeyes, not only the rebels but common people as well, Kaladin steps in too - still covering his face but this time using Syl as a Shardblade (or Shardspear, but usually a blade for appearances). Around the whole city there are rumors of a Sharbearer protecting darkeyes and a man in rugged cloak protecting lighteyes. Nobody knows that Kaladin is them both. Of course, he tries not to kill anyone. Whenever he fails at that, he's angry with himself. After he escaped the prison, Aesudan demands this man found and killed. Guards look for him, but with the help of common people (both darkeyes and low dahn lighteyes) he manages to hide. He becomes a hero for commoners, hated by the queen's court and important lighteyes and by some rebels who doesn't agree with him. He struggles with that. He's stretched very thin - he cannot protect everyone or stabilize the situation in the city, as he believes Dalinar would want him to. Finally he comes to the conclusion that he's no politician - he can't take care of Kholinar in any way. All he can do is to protect the people - all of them. And that's what he does. At one point he runs into Liss. But I don't have this part too developed. Besides all that there's still the threat of Voidbringers. Most of the parshmen are locked inside the building for the storms, as they are too valuable (expensive) to risk them. But every time there are few who become transformated. Those Kaladin hunts and kills, seeing no other way out of this - he doesn't know how to help them go back to normal. That means of course more rumors - about a Herald who came to protect the people (well, KR are the bad guys, so people decided it must be a Herald who helps them). But after some time people are in uproar - they are aware that they're being attacked by some fearsome creatures. But do they listen to Kaladin when he tries to tell them that those creatures are transformed parshmen? No, that would be too easy. They decide that the creatures are being lured in by parshmen (I imagine that every new Voidbringer would want to get the other ones to change as well, so they'd try to free them from buildings). And no, they don't kill them. The world is ending after all. They hope that if they sent parshmen far away, the monsters will follow them. So they do it. By they I mean people led by some important lighteyes - the queen is shut in her castle and refuses to acknowledge the threat. So when the parshmen that were sent away transform, they come back for those that are still kept by the queen. The danger is coming and suddenly none of the lighteyes who tried to seize control of the city (since as I said the queen is useless and ignores everything around her). Kaladin is forced to take charge - first of darkeyes, then lower lighteyes. Together they try to plan city defense. Some of the important ones join them too - they are also afraid of the threat. In the end Kaladin leads the defence of the city (I expect a new Ideal around this time, prefarably the final one, maybe something like "I will lead when everyone else fears to"). In the end the city is saved. But the queen is a different matter. She claimed that it's the end of the world, that Almighty decided to kill them all for they weren't serving him well enough. She orders all of her ardents to be executed for they lied to her - they said she was faithful enough and now the monsters come for her. She closes herself in her chamber with her baby son (let's say he's 2... a toddler not an infant). When Voidbringers are close to the palace, she tries to kill her son and then herself. But Liss prevents this - she kills Aesudan, but leaves the child (I have different explanations for her motives ). At the same time some of the guards in the palace are worried by their queen's behaviour. Some fo them go to look for help. The city is being attacked, by they see someone who looks like the right person to save them - a man with a glowing weapon, flying over the battlefield, killing the monsters. They go to him and tell him about Aesudan. Kaladin commands them to stop the executions of ardents and himself goes to do something with the queen. When he gets there, it's too late already. Aesudan is dead. But the prince lives - Kal is forced to comfort him. He wouldn't do it if not for Syl. Kids seem to like talking spren Anyway, he gives the prince to a serving woman, telling them both to hide and ordering some of the guards that he can find to protect the prince. Then he goes back to the fight. In the end, the battle of Kholinar is won but with many casualties. Kaladin focuses on helping the wounded while he's being seeked out again by somebody from the palace. Apparently, now everybody looks to him for leadership. Now, that is a good moment for Jasnah to arrive and fix the Oathgate - the whole palace with people from Kholinar can be transported to safety of Urithiru. Well, this has so many plotholes (especially in the part about Voidbringers) that it could serve as a strainer But I really like it anyway. I see him as determined not to sleep so he would be awake when his brother comes to... But he may fall asleep in his chair, only fater that being carried to the bed. And Dalinar and Navani will be visiting Adolin, but they may have too many responsibilities to have enough time for that. Especially Dalinar - he would like to sit by Adolin's side day and night, but all he can do is to drop by from time to time for a few moments. Only Renarin was desperate enough to toss away all responsibilities and everything not to leave his brother's side. Oh my, this is a priceless image And of course, Skar and Drehy are the ones carrying him out - they always save his backside. The one with Veli seems interesting... Well, I also have some ideas for Adolin leaving without his Blade, but then there's this one in which he keeps it against all odds. That's another obstacle for him - his keeping of the Blade is seen as betrayal, so if he ever decides to return (or somebody tries to bring him back) this issue will have to be dealt with. That won't be easy. Or he revives his Blade and then comes back - as a Dustbringer. He arrives during a battle and saves the day People welcome him as a hero (bonus points if he brings Lift with him - a healer could always be of use) but there are some blaming him for leaving and taking the Blade when he was supposed to give it up as a punishment for murder.

17th shard as in those three that were looking for Hoid back in WoK, the organisation... Propably... Well, I only recall that Adolin seemed to be very fond of Wit in WoK and he even tried to convince Dalinar to him... But that could be an effect of some of Hoid's abilities or simply the fact that Adolin found him to be a nice person regardless of any instincts or magical interference I guess maybe he would sense a worldhopper with bad intentions - he would know that this one is going to be trouble. I guess it could go this way, it wouldn't be bad in fact. I simply like some other possibilities more That may be because I'm currently reading Mistborn, but this version of Adolin reminds me a bit of how Kelsier was perceived by people :ph34r: Which is good in my opinion because I like Kelsier She apparently wasn't important enough to let us know her whereabouts And yes, Shallan/Adolin/Danlan would be less annoying than Kaladin/Shallan/Adolin (especially since I cannot imagine Kaladin and Shallan together... under any circumstances ). Again, I wouldn't want the situation between Dalinar and Kaladin to from extreme to extreme (too trusting - not trusting at all). I just want Dalinar to be more realistic. If he waved his hand, said "well, nothing happened" and kept blindly trusting Kaladin it would be awful. He must get a bit disillusioned. The truth is that Kaladin doesn't want any harm to befall the Kholins and is loyal to them, but first and foremost he's loyal to his men (personally I like that very much about him). So there's no danger until the good of Kholin family would come at the cost of the good of Bridge 4 - in this situation it's obvious Kaladin would choose Bridge 4. But in every other situation, when those two do not contradict each other, Kaladin can be trusted to look after the good of the Kholins. I also can see Dalinar feeling betrayed, especially if he found out about Adolin's and Kaladin's crimes around the same time. He would be willing to stop trusting Kaladin completely, but eventually he will understand that it's foolish. After all, deep down Dalinar also cares first about those he loves and only then about the kingdom (that's why punishing Adolin would be very hard to him). He will be more wary, but he will still trust Kaladin - simply not so blindly as before. Generally I also see Kaladin shining not sinking (and Adolin sinking first and then shining), but I think that even if there's a rift created between Kal and Dalinar, he will still have a chance to shine. Dalinar started with trusting Kaladin blindly, others weren't very sure. Now, even if Dalinar's trust wavers, others will start warming up to Kaladin, especially after his success in Kholinar. True. I think he may possibly be able to "catch" the Stormlight that leaks from someone else (take it before it evaporates), but not steal it directly form another Surgebinder. On the other hand, you used metalminds as an example. Well, there's also a case in Warbreaker that upon reaching a certain Heightening (8th or 9th, I don't remember) one can hijack objects awakened by someone else. So stealing Stormlight may be possible, but very hard to do...

I meant that Vasher is still the same in WoR Nightblood said only one sentence in fact. But I do hope he will discover more on what evil really is. I hope for someone to explain to him something along the lines of "all people can be good and evil at once so they all deserve a chance". But of course, there are still the Unmade - they are evil, period. And apparently Nightblood is capable of destroying them I know. So, 300 years since the Peacegiver and then unknown some before. In my book "few hundred" is from over 200 to 900 (later it's "almost a thousand"). As for VasherxVivenna - I'm glad I'm not the only one I really hope for this to happen in Nightblood...

That is perfect And it can be done, we saw Vasher knocking out guards but keeping them alive in Warbreaker after all Also Kaladin tending to all wounded after the battle seems to much like him... That would also make more people respect him. If the story goes this way I expect Kal to have some insane number of followers by the end of the books (like the bridgemen). I grew up on Disney and Dreamworks... As well as Asterix and Obelix or Star Wars. Not to metion few obvious ones like LotR... But my very favourite Disney movie was (and still is) Mulan Especially Mushu was cool. I was forbidden to choose movies to watch with my younger family members. I was supposed to go along with whatever they choose. Wasn't much of a problem until lately some of my cousins (ages 8-12) demanded we watch Twilight. I said "no, I'm not watching this stupidity" and left the room. Aunt was rather mad at me :ph34r: But in my defense, that was a rather big family gathering, so I rounded up boys in another room and we watched Garfield A few of the girls joined us too I know but still I can dream, right? As for "Kaladin in Kholinar" I have many different ideas, but they're not very polished yet. One of them is that he tries to get an audience with the queen to talk some sense into her, but he's not allowed to being a darkeye, so he breathes in some Stormlight, changes his eyes to blue saying something along the lines of "Well, if that was the only problem, then it's taken care of now" and goes in anyway, when the guards are busy trying to understand what just happened Aww, adorable Yes, Renarin would do amazing job taking care of his brother. He would never, ever leave his side. He would sit at Adolin's side day and night, completely uncaring of his own health. Others would bring him food so he would eat. They would even bring him another bed to sleep on since he refuses to leave the room, but Renarin doesn't use it anyway. He thinks he must be just there when his brother wakes up, being awake himself so he wouldn't miss this moment. For some reason I just imagined Rock (or one of the other bridgemen) being forced to knock Renarin out (or drug him) in order to get him to rest even a bit But that's just my crazy brain And I'd really like for Renarin to shove Shallan out of the room. In fact only Dalinar or Navani would be allowed in if they decided to come As for Kaladin's role in this... In my mind the truth about the murder comes out late in the book 3 and the final decision about it is made at the very end. By that time Kaladin just comes back to Urithiru, only to hear the news (in different versions it's just before or just after Adolin's punishment being made). Then he has just enough time to confront Adolin about it in a rather friendly chat. I imagine Kaladin goind to find Adolin and talk to him. Adolin: Bridgeboy? What do you want? To call me a fool or a monster for what I've done? To condemn me like everyone else? Kaladin: Why would you... No, I'm not here to condemn you. Adolin: Why then? Just speak and spare me false compassion! I don't need pity. Kaladin: I didn't come to offer you pity. And my compassion isn't false, ... <here he was about to say Princeling, but he stopped himself just in time> Adolin: So, what do you say? About what I did? After all, you are embodiment of honor and what's right... <yup, Adolin is cynical, who could blame him in his situation> Kaladin: <heavy sigh> Being a Windrunner I must say that though you had good intentions, what you did was wrong... Adolin: I knew it... <he turns back, wanting to end this conversation, thinking that everyone want to condemn him anyway> Kaladin: But as your friend... <that makes Adolin look at him with a frown> As your friend I say that I understand. You did what you thought had to be done. I may not agree but I know you meant well. You are not a monster, but I can see something from a fool in you. <Adolin looks at him intently, looking for a lie, but he finds none, so he smiles> Adolin: Thanks, Bridgeboy. Kaladin: Anytime <he smiles too> And stop wallowing in self-pity. It's pathetic. Adolin: You are one to speak... <and with that he grins - for the first time in days> Beyond that I think that any mending of the bonds between Adolin and his family, as well as helping Adolin get back up from the bottom he hit alone will take place in book 4. So Kaladin will be there. Renarin will be most neccessary to help Adolin, but I think he could use a friend as well. Yes, I don't like her :ph34r: And I can't really explain why... I just don't get that vibe from her, that something which makes me like the character or not... Funny, by now the only lead female characters in Brandon's novels that I liked were Vivenna and Siri (in this order). Yeah, that's good too Yes, that would be cool to see I can imagine Adolin foolishly entering a drinking competition against Rock. One of the biggest mistakes in his life That's my favourite activity during boring lectures I don't really see Adolin commiting suicide. In this idea of mine it's that he decides to take his own life to protect the others, a different kind of heroic sacrifice. He's being controlled by Odium and that's the only way he can stop it. Well, I do have that one idea where Adolin is so determined to keep his Blade that he would do anything to achieve it. After storming out of the room with Dalinar shouting to him to stop acting like a fool and give up the Shard, he hides somewhere deep in Urithiru to avoid being caught and later sneaks out of the city (I imagine that the Oathgates are being opened from time to time to get supplies or something - with their size it's possible to sneak without the Radiant finding out). He becomes something of a deserter, an outlaw, but being lighteyes is enough to help him get further away (can be connected to "Adolin in Azir" or wherever else). He's guilty because he left, but he thinks that his family will be better off without him anyway. Besides he still doesn't understand why he's so determined to keep the Blade. He even feels that it wants to stay with him... At one point Renarin decides to find his brother but it's not so easy... Generally, in all of my ideas Elhokar ends badly (not always dead but always badly), Renarin grows some backbone (while still staying himself), Kaladin finally gets some happiness and Adolin hits the bottom only to come out of it stronger (except from that one with Odium, but that's just one )... The search engine and I are not on a very good terms :ph34r: Besides, I know all that. I wanted to give an advice on where to go to understand Adolin better so nobody (namely you, as you are the one who usually does it) would have to write it all again here

They would team up and be completely awesome together For the Purelake - do you think that 17th Shard are still somewhere around those parts looking for Hoid? I wonder if Adolin's intuition would see something strange in worldhoppers - I don't remember how it was with Wit... Adolin as the new Blackthorn? It has potential but it's still not something I'd really like to see But I wonder what Voidbringer-fighting techniques they could come up with. I mean, I see Adolin more like a soldier, general who leads to fight and devises good field tactics. I can't imagine him as someone who can come up with something to let regular soldiers deal with Voidbringers - that's something for scholars like Navani. He may present good strategy to assault them, but I don't think it would be enough. I don't know, it wasn't said anywhere that she left and I assumed that she stayed... Even Diagram needs spies I think As for the love triangle between Danlan, Adolin and Shallan - there could be something like you said somewhere above that after Adolin is pushed back by Shallan he seeks comfort in someone else, that someone being Danlan. And yet I still don't like the thought of love triangles in SA And Kaladin's brief involvement with the patriots must come up somewhere again. It must have some consequences. I mean, how Kaladin could hide the fact that one of his men, a Shardbearer at that, suddenly disappeared? I think Dalinar should realize that Kaladin is faithful to his men first and foremost, not to him. I don't want to make a big wedge between them but I believe Dalinar's trust to be too blind. Yes, they should still trust each other, but they should also be realistic.

I'm not sure... I definitely recall him trying to. He thinks of himself as a human (his argument against being left in a closet was that he needs light and fresh air and when Vasher told him that he's just a sword, he clearly acted insulted). I think that Nightblood does progress slightly - I may be mistaken but I remember Vasher saying something that the sword is learning but no matter what he cannot overwrite the memories of his first hours "alive" (about Shashara and Denth). Remember - he doesn't just speak. He has sentience, that was clearly indicated when Vasher explained Vivenna the four types of awakened objects (actually, he told her there are four but explained only 3, she figured out some of the rest). Being sentient is more than just being able to speak. Vasher is a man grumpy from nature, something around few hundreds years old. I don't think he can act in a very "human" way. One of my hopes for sequel is that Vivenna will somehow force him to be more human, at least sometimes... But I don't know, he doesn't seem very different in WoR...

Well, with that I can agree. Kaladin will do his best not to kill people/Parshendi. Voidbringers are a different matter - they are evil creatures. There's a fat chance somebody (propably Eshonai) will discover a way to free the Listeners from the stormform, so then the priority would be to help them not to kill them. But some still want to be the Voidbringers (Venli and her scholars for example, but very possibly others as well). Ok... That's too early for Avatar. But point still stands - it's a very good cartoon for children, only ones more around 10 My nephew (son of my cousin actually, but it's simpler to say nephew) is 4 as well and he wanted me to turn off the TV when we were watching Lilo and Stitch at the moment when Stitch was to be taken away Instead of turning it off I tried to divert his attention until the happy ending came. It was actually a good thing as I had to focus for a while on something else - I always cry at this point of the movie :ph34r: Hm... That is possible... It's even possible I've mentioned it somewhere before as I really like to think it will be the case... But it's funny that we both thought that he should have a little sister. A brother wouldn't work as well - poor boy would be too much Tien-replacement. A girl is something new. And of course she will be a surgeon - Lirin needs to get at least one of his children to follow in his steps She will want to help people. I even have a little situation in mind - Kaladin gets hurt around Hearthstone. Nothing life-threatening, just a minor wound. He doesn't heal it with Stormlight - he doesn't want to reveal his abilities to anyone besides the Stormlight is scarce during the Weeping, he's not going to waste it when it's not necessary, he simply took care of the wound the old-fashioned way to let it heal on it's own. So his little sister wants him to feel better and to achieve this she brings him a bit of something yummy to eat (some sweet pastry maybe? I wanted to say a flower, but I highly doubt there are any flowers or flowerlike plants around especially during this time of the year, and of course it couldn't be a rock). A sweet little gesture foreshadowing her as a caring character who wants to help people As for Kaladin spoiling his little sister - I think it's an obvious point. He's already proven to be very overprotective older brother. Given the age diference and his desire to be the best brother he can be - he's so going to spoil her rotten. Ooooh, I want to see Renarin in a protective mode But I guess he will point out her mistake/wrongdoing to her but he seems too kind of a person to force her into realising what she's done. If it was easy then she would propably realize it herself. I think she will need a "reminder" of the kind of a metaphorical cudgel to the head Renarin will try very hard for her to see the truth, but he won't have enough force to do it. That's why I want Kaladin to start a shouting match with Shallan about that - this will get to her and she will finally acknowledge everything Renarin tried to tell her before. Actually - it definitely doesn't have to be Kaladin, just somebody capable of forcing Shallan into a powerful argument. Hoid would do way better if he cared enough to even try. As for the Ghostbloods - yes, that is very possible. But still, maybe it's because I don't like her very much, but I want her to screw up very badly :ph34r: It's actually strange how I dislike most popular and well-liked female characters in Brandon's books - I'm starting Hero of Ages and I still can't bring myself to like Vin :ph34r: Nice one. But it's not that I wanted Adolin to break down quickly. What I had in mind was more like - the debates with Ialai and Amaram have been going on for a while. It's the last meeting out of many more. Everything was weighing down on Adolin for a long while by then - his guilt, his shame, his father's disappointment, the long time of trying to keep the secret that got out anyway, being pushed away by Shallan, being the only non-Radiant in the family and therefore feeling inadequate... And so when he hears that his father doesn't want to have anything to do with him anymore, that he doesn't even deserve to be part of the family, when he loses the last thing he had - he breaks down. Besides, I kind of imagined him standing in the middle of the room when the others discuss - he has no right to speak anymore, he had a chance to defend himself on the first meeting, now the others will decide his fate and he can do nothing about it. It's not an official trial, but I still imagine him standing there like before the court - another way to show how helpless he is. This scene works out well for me personally Agreed. But I'm divided on this - I kind of like the idea of Adolin hitting the rock bottom only to be later lifted back up by his brother and his friends. I say friends - he never had any real friends before. It would do him well if that changed. I think mostly about Kaladin now - Adolin helped him trust lighteyes and stayed by his side during the bad time (I mean the prison situation), now I think Kaladin should support him when he needs it. But of course - mostly Renarin. I think even some of the Bridge 4 could help - something simple like claiming that they owe Adolin a drink for dealing with that cremling Sadeas. A humorous accent to brighten him a bit. My ideas... Well, almost none of them is actually as well developed as some of those you post, where you pretty much summarise a whole plot They are just a simple ideas. One of them being that Adolin in his guilt and sense of abandonement becomes an easy target for Odium to control, completely against his will. That's the most tragic one - in this one Adolin really sinks to the lowest of low, but in the end he manages to regain enough of control over himself to find a way to stop himself from doing something very very evil... But there's only one way to do this :ph34r: Well, that's definitely not a very nice idea Another one is Adolin who already feel the bond with his Blade deep down, even if he can't comprehend what does it mean... But anyway he's not going to give up on this Blade, no matter what anyone, even his father, says needs to be done... I guess I could go over this one some more, but propably next time This one is actually quite good, I think... As for Rysn - that's true. It can get very interesting. As for the rest... The idea overall is good, but... Well, I don't think there's any reason for me to go over everything here, I'll just say that if you think that Adolin's foundation isn't solid I'd suggest yout to read the threads about him (particularly www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/20110-why-does-everyone-think-that-having-killed-sadeas-will-destroy-adolin-so-much/) to get a better insight of him... There are many posts there that show there's much more to him than it seems. And besides, Dalinar doesn't turn blind eye to Adolin. To Kaladin - yes, to Elhokar - constantly, to Sadeas - even here, yes. But never to Adolin. From Adolin he expects more. He always wanted Adolin to be better man then he used to be. There's no way he could turn blind eye to him. Besides, if anyone is going to use the Honorblade, Elhokar is more likely - he's a bratty king that wants to be respected, and what better way (in his eyes) to get respect than use a magical sword?

I have issues with trusting a psychopatic sword with opinions about interpersonal relationships Besides I believe that Nightblood said that Vasher likes Vivenna, which by now only indicated that he's fond of her even while he tried to act like he didn't care at all... But I don't think Nightblood would know the difference between "like" and "love". I can totally see him trying to understand humans more (and therefore become more human himself, as he wants to be) by asking questions like "what does love mean?" in the sequel. Prefarably he would drop such bomb on Vivenna as Vasher wouldn't answer anyway Anyway, as for the end of Warbreaker I think Vasher and Vivenna were already good friends (if they weren't he definitely wouldn't let her go with him). I believe it could blossom into something more (actually, I'd really like to see this ). But yes, I also think that Vasher considers Vivenna rather, hm... eye-catching (I'm pretty sure it was hinted somewhere), but he would never, ever admit this aloud And it may even work also other way around, I mean, at one point in the book Vivenna was contemplating Vasher's chest

Brilliant I always liked your ideas, especially because they're usually much more precise then mine I only know what I'd like to see while you create whole plots... This one is very good, Adolin totally could become a Robin Hood. And Lift would think he's awesome (but of course not nearly as awesome as she is) Feverstone Keep was the red one and we don't know where it was, in the Purelake there was a black one... Anyway, I don't really see your idea of "Adolin the conqueror"... The other ones seem to fit better with his character... I mean, yes he could propably do something like this but I just don't see him going this way. Especially since if he were to be exiled he would propably also lose his Shards (given to Ialai) and without them he couldn't possibly lead armies against Voidbringers, let's admit it, he wouldn't survive too long I agree. The rest of the Bridge 4 will definitely end up being Kal's squires (and I think even Rlain will ), some of them already are. But Moash... If he could possibly become somebody's squire it would have to be a Dustbringer. He would simply never fit to any other... Yes, we don't know exactly why they broke up (we only have a vague reason - Adolin didn't like what she was saying to her friends, propably about the Kholins, because otherwise why would Adolin care?). It just doesn't seem interesting to me I don't know what Kaladin is going to do about Moash and the patriots (especially since we don't know when he will be back in Urithiru) but I think he will try to tell Dalinar that one of his scribes is a traitor (assuming she didn't run away like Graves, but I think she stayed to keep spying). When confronted about this Danlan would promptly inform the Highprince about Moash and Kaladin's involvement in the situation, but Kal can prove that in the end he did not help the patriots and protected Elhokar. That will drive a wedge between Dalinar and Kaladin as Dalinar won't be happy that Kal didn't tell him about this, but I don't think he would make a big fuss out of this - after all no permanent harm was done. But ever since he will be less trusting towards Kal, wondering what else he can be hiding to protect his men Going back to Adolin in Purelake (or in fact, wherever in exile), I think it would be hilarious if he ran into the 17th shard. They could ask him about Hoid and may even try to manipulate him to find out that Hoid=Wit, while poor Adolin wouldn't even be aware that he revealed something that should stay secret By manipulate I mean that they would act friendly, invite him to his camp or something and steer the conversation in a way to find out if Adolin knows anything about a certain man...

Interesting... I never thought of it. That would mean that she may have the eye color she thinks she should have - like brown to fit it with Idrian opinion about bright colors... Good thought True... The only PoV's we see are from Vivenna and Siri (who would have no reason to speak/think of Vivenna's eye color), Lightsong (who never even met Vivenna) and Vasher (who's definitely not the kind of person to talk about eye colors). As for your last sentence... really? Or is it sarcasm? Because I can see them falling in love in the sequel, but now they're just friends...