Tazren

I think it's just directly tied to promises or oaths. There's probably something inherently magical about making oaths a certain way, and that's what binds him. But if he just randomly lies to someone, there's no oaths or promises involved. Maybe a real Oath has something to do with a Connection between the parties involved, and going back on that just backfires dramatically. Maybe more so the greater your power?

This is my feeling as well. Although, personally ... I really feel like there will be a lot of situations in which the Radiant wins, a few where the Mistborn wins, and quite a lot where the Mistborn runs for their life, since they'll be able to outrun almost any order. Feels like at the end of the day, you have to come up with very niched and specific scenarios to be able to defeat something that has absurd healing powers and increased strength/speed as a base, in addition to their more unique abilities. Surprise, pure luck or the Radiant having a significant extra disadvantage.

Could also be that Lifelight just behaves slightly differently in subtle ways with it. Lift's Surgebinding doesn't seem different in general, at least no one has commented on it, right? So maybe the Lifelight doesn't make her surge stronger in general, just affects it differently enough that she could use overcome, or circumvent, the protection. Or maybe it has nothing to do with Lifelight, and more to do with the whole surge. Maybe the security system doesn't block all forms of surgebinding equally. Maybe the fact that Progression wants to "restore" something to its natural state just kind of goes past it - or at least that those sorts parts of it would be the last to go. Maybe they're more "natural" than something like reversing gravity or reshaping stone.

Finished the book yesterday. I have some really mixed feelings. I really enjoyed reading it. It had a lot of good scenes, and I loved all the discussions about the magic systems, Cosmere stuff, and such. There was really good character development. There wasn't really a lot of parts that I found boring, it was a really good read. The plot twist at the end was pretty nice. But. As a part of the greater story, I felt like almost nothing happened - certainly not for such a long book. Things only really progressed close to the very end, with the contract signed between Dalinar and Odium. Up to that point, I felt like nothing was progressing. There was only a lot of info given out and character development, no plot development at all. Which doesn't feel like the other books, or Sanderson in general. So in that way, I am very disappointed. Still, I can rate it badly, because I enjoyed it as a book. Just not so much as a part of Stormlight Archive. it felt more like one of the novellas, or like a 1200 page prologue to book 5.

The name made me think of the god Sieh, in N.K. Jemisin's Inheritance Trilogy. The god of childhood, both good and bad. Whimsical, capricious, childish, etc. Also some other stuff, like childish cruelty.

My completely unfounded theory while reading was that Lifelight just works exceptionally well with Progression, and that's what allowed Lift to "push through" the resistance. Felt like something that would make sense, at least.

When I read Way of Kings, I had no idea the Cosmere existed. I had read Mistborn, Warbreaker and Elantris. I remember someplace in WoK when both Honor and Cultivation were mentioned at the same time, and I was like ... wait, what? Isn't this a little uncreative, naming your gods in this book after the same pattern as Mistborn? Then I made a quick google and had my mind blown.

Depends on the context and limitations. Being an Elantrian seems pretty neat, mostly because the AonDor is extremely versatile and pretty much generic fantasy magic. That is, you can do whatever you want, more or less. So if AonDor worked on Earth, that would be my pick. But if I'd have to stick to the same city for the rest of my life, that would be too much of a drawback. In our modern world, Feruchemy just seems like the most useful magic system for having a better life. Easy enough to fill most metalminds while sitting home and taking it easy, or while commuting. You could have a really huge store of goldmines, since most people wouldn't have a lot of use for it ... except when they really need it. Save it for a would-be tragic accident or when you develop a fatal disease. Bronze, Zinc and Electrum would allow you to accomplish anything just when you want to the most. Bendalloy is basically, eat whatever you want without any drawbacks. So, in our world, a Feruchemy for sure.

Difficult to say without really knowing anything at all about most of the orders. Based on what little we have, I'd say either a Truthwatcher or an Elsecaller.

Could Cognitive Illumination be something like, showing the truth? Maybe it could somehow highlight what other people are thinking (revealing lies), and cancelling out other kinds of illusory magic?

In our world, I'd easily take Feruchemy. It would be the easiest to use without anyone noticing (wear metal instead of consuming it), and it has a lot more everyday uses than Allomancy. Storing wakefulness, determination and energy would all be insanely useful. Not to mention health, senses, knowledge, etc. Hemalurgy is just too brutal and bothersome. Nevermind that you'd have to spike a lot of people (maybe you could find volunteers or use condemned rapists and murderers) - you couldn't exactly be discreet with it, walking around with dozens of spikes through your entire body.

That is all true, but it would still seem odd to throw the basic limit of the system out of the window. Even in Mistborn when you have Mistborn or even Mistborn/Feruchemists, they still follow the same limitation as others. The God-King in Warbreaker still has to consume colours (but can use colours others can't). I'm sure that the Fifth Ideal would give great benefits, but I don't think it will break the system's main limitation in such a way.

Brandon Sanderson also makes a big deal about believing that magic systems are defined by their limits, or something along those lines. Stormlight is clearly the major limitation of Surgebinding, so it would be strange if the Fifth Ideal suddenly removed it altogether.

Interesting idea. It makes me wonder what Spiritual Soulcasting would be? If the typical Soulcasting is physical, and what Shallan did in Shadesmar was cognitive (?) ...

Maybe it's not wasteful, so much as a very different choice to make, that we haven't seen others do. If she is basically a hive-mind, that'd make her difficult to kill. If you've got many parts that make up a single whole, it doesn't matter so much if one or a few are destroyed. Maybe it's not the best way to fight off Odium in a direct confrontation, but could be a good way to survive, and perhaps oppose him in a more strategic way.

I really like this discussion, and the effort of the first post! Enigma sounds like an especially neat Shard. I've been thinking about something similar, but I've never been able to really pin something down. But Enigma even sounds nice. Purity sounds like something I could totally see as a Shard as well. If I were to make any changes, it'd be these. Prudence (replaces Enlightenment) Prudence is the classical virtue that allows you to govern yourself, and (quoting wikipedia) "its function is to point out which course of action is to be taken in any concrete circumstances /../Without prudence, bravery becomes foolhardiness; mercy sinks into weakness, and temperance into fanaticism". Now, if there's anything all Shards lack, its some Prudence to help moderate their Intents, because as we've seen, they seem to mostly take them to the extreme. All that prudence must've gone somewhere, probably into a Shard. Of course, it could be called Wisdom or maybe Temperance. But I Iike Prudence more, because it feels very specific in the classical interpretation, and Wisdom just makes me think of the generic role-playing mental stat. So I'd hope for Prudence or Temperance, depending on exactly how the Intent would work. I would also suggest that this is a Shard that Odium has killed, or very much tried to kill. Not necessarily because he fears it on its own, but because it would synergise really well with probably any other Shard. And so you'd get Sazed, but not inhibited by opposing forces. Possibly this is the Shard that has decided to hide in empty space, because hiding from Odium would be the sensible course of action. Tangentially related to survival ... Of course, it could also mean it's decided to take an active part against him. Inspiration (replaces Charisma) Inspiration sounds more divine to me, but it kind of boils down to the same thing? Inspiring people is an important part of leadership, and is something that would get people to want to worship you. Curiosity (replaces Chaos) First, I don't think there's any need for a "negative neutrality", because I don't really see what it would do. Seems more like a lack of Intent. Curiosity, on the other hand, could be an important part of Creation, because it'd be the thirst for knowledge, the desire to understand and expand your horizons. I haven't really felt that any Shards have a lot of curiosity. Perhaps this could fall under Cultivation, but it could be just as likely that she isn't really curious, that she just grows things because, with no interest in the understanding the results. I could also see a lot of nice magic systems around it. Anything to do with inventions and ingenuity, as well as more trickster-like systems, since a lot of trickery could boil down to "I want to see how they react when I do this to them". Also, if you combined Curiosity with Prudence, you'd get what I would call Enlightenment. Sloth: induldgence, complacency, disdain (replaces Retribution) Because even God should have a side that wants to do nothing more than sit and do nothing productive whatsoever. To be proud of what has been done already, to feel that it's enough. The side that convinces God to take a break. It would serve to temper the active Shards quite a lot. I'm not really sure about the name, or the exact Intent. But something along those lines? A Shard like this would also be a very good candidate for the Shard that hides out in space, because why would it bother with Investing in a planet? Chilling in space and watching the universe must be the ultimate way to just be unproductive. I also wanted something else with a very strong negative connotation. I say that I would replace Retribution because I don't think Retribution needs a Shard of its own. It could very well be a combination of Odium, Honor and maybe Prudence. Justice would probably be only Produnce and Honor. There are also a few that I considered but rejected, because I already think they exist in most Shards. Either of them could probably still exist, but I don't think they do. Anyway, these: Fortitude/Courage/Perseverence, Passion, Altruism/Benevolence Courage feels like it could be great, but when has a Shard every shown lack of courage? They just keep on going in the face of adversity, risking their own necks for their Intents. They all feel very strongly about their Intents (they are passionate, you could say). And they've shown great capacity for Altruism, such as Preservation and Honor literally giving up their lives for mortals. I think these aspects of Adonalsium were just divided across many Shards.

Another thing I've considered regarding Passion, is if that would even be a Shard on its own. Doesn't "God's Passion" seem to have been divided into other shards already? Passion is just a very intense feeling for something, and aren't most shards very passionate in their intent? At least those where it's relevant. A bit like what the Stormfather said to counter Odium's argument about Honor having no emotions: that Honor felt very strongly about oaths, but he still cared so deeply for the people of Roshar that he died for them. I'd imagine that Devotion was as closely related to "Passion" as Odium is. That is to say, maybe Passion would be a combination of at the very least, all Shards that have some sort of emotional Intent.

I see Odium through a bit of a Star Wars lens. When he says that he represents "Passion", I see him as a Sith Lord trying to sell someone the Dark Side of the Force. You know, through passion I gain strength, through strength I gain power, etc. And we all know that in the end it leads to dark and twisted hatred. Maybe it's sort of true, but not really. Perhaps he's more, how passions relates to hatred. Unfettered passion that eventually lead to hatred, kind of how a too obsessive love could descend into jealousy and hatred, how the passion for victory can make you hate your opponent, how sorrow can lead to despair, anger and then hatred. The Yoda thing: fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. Maybe Odium is the incarnation of that. Hatred, and the passion that leads to it. Because it's probably difficult to hate without feeling passion. Hatred is so intense, it has to be connected. But to call the shard "Passion" alone seems wrong, because passion would encompass so much more. I'd also be more inclined to say that a shard that got "God's Divine Passion" would result in Obsession, rather than just Passion.

Did anyone else catch the reference with Newcago's new mayor? Mayor Briggs? Who was descriped as having no personality. I mean, reference to Myers-Briggs personality types. I thought it was really funny, and must've been deliberate.

Primary Power Control of biological matter. Can heal or kill others, cure or create diseases, cause mutations, alter people's appearance, manipulate DNA ...Making complex, longterm changes in a person without causing damage requires extensive knowledge of many aspects of biology. Secondary Powers Shapeshifting. Can turn into non-humanoid creatures, alter appearance. This power is intuitive, and requires no knowledge of biology. Self-regeneration. Automatic. Bio-sense. Can sense the genetic and biological makeup of a person by touch. It doesn't give any understanding of how everything works, just a sense of what's there. E.g. could inspect specific genes, look for infections, injuries, and so on, but would need to know what to look for or where to look. Weakness: Loses powers when late for an appointment. If the weakness is triggered, all powers are lost until I arrive at the meeting, or the appointment is cancelled/rescheduled. Of course, this would lead me to rarely make any appointments. This is based on the subjective feeling of being late, not on some absolute truth. Cheesy name: Evolution Evil: I would withhold healing from everyone but those who are loyal to me ... except for random acts of "kindness" seemingly from nowhere, just to keep people hoping that maybe, maybe I will heal their broken leg or cure their child's diabetes, or whatever. Also, I supppose I would experiment on people to learn more about how the primary power works, what its limitations are, etc. I imagine this would start out with criminals, and then slowly include more and more people who are just annoyances.

Right? That's how I see it in my head. Of course, I hope they manage something equally cool with real actors and such, but ...

I've always felt the same, but it isn't so much that I think it needs to be an anime as I doubt that a real movie would manage to pull off the action scenes well enough. Meanwhile, I could see any animated movie manage it really well. The best action scenes I've ever seen have been in animated shows (One Punch Man, Avatar: The Last Airbender, The Legend of Korra, Fullmetal Alchemist ...), and Mistborn has some of the most graphic actions scenes I've read. I just have a much easier time seeing the Mistborn action scenes realised in an animated show. It wouldn't have to be in an anime style, regular CGI would probably work just as well.

No problem, but isn't that basically the same? I mean, he's balanced between Preservation and Ruin, that's why he's Harmony? He's managed to control them to the extent that they've intermingled. But from other answers it seems very much like he still has to balance those two forces (and him being good at it is what makes him Harmony and not something else)

Omnipotent? Granted. Your bane is that with this vast wisdom and power, you come to realise that the only wise course of action is to not interfere in mortal affairs. I wish that I could compile computer programs mentally, being able to fully understand them just by looking at the code. Edit: Whooops, forgot to add a wish!

Granted, but something goes wrong during the transition so all the Breaths are permanently lost. I wish for a life of perfect health with fast recovery from any injuries.