Blightsong

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  1. for fun

    Here to pull rank on those other links who guessed Kelsier was involved with the Ghostbloods lol, guessed it pre-Oathbringer
  2. Just finished the book and i'm still gathering my thoughts, but this just came to me. Maybe the Set are in possession of a Dawnshard. It seems like they have the ability to wipe out all life on Scadrial if this quote is to be believed: And this seems to be the Sleepless' exact fear when it comes to people finding Dawnshards: What do you all think?
  3. Seems like this one arrived after Horneaters settled in the peaks. This would mean after the original human colonization of Roshar, I believe. I'm thinking maybe it came with the Iri on the Long Trail?
  4. I don't think Kaladin's viewpoint has been repetitive at all. Yes, he's been depressed the whole time but his inner struggle has gone from denial, to anger, to acceptance in a way that's been very satisfying and relatable to me personally. His character hasn't stagnated at all this book imo, it's actually grown more in these chapters than in all of OB in my opinion. It's also been apparent to me since book 2 that there was more to Shallan's early past than anything to do with her mother's death, this was hinted at in the flashback scene with Hoid. Then all throughout OB Pattern brought this up. Seems pretty well set up to me narratively as well as realistically, as one of the biggest symptoms of DID is amnesia. But that's just my opinion. We'll have to see how this all goes in the full book, especially the Shallan stuff.
  5. Thought I'd post other places I've found similarities. Seems like both radiant and fabrial soulcasting are related:
  6. Odium is definitely keeping Venli alive on purpose. I'm surprised no one here has mentioned the moment in the books where this is all but confirmed, right as she's about to be taken by a Fused: He definitely is not blind and is just keeping Venli, in his own words, as his.
  7. Only if you're a Cosmere aware 17th Sharder who knows what to look for. Those are pretty much easter eggs, like you said. Fans of only the Stormlight books would not pick that up, so those lines being important foreshadowing doesn't click for me. Especially since Brandon has said stuff like this since those Mraize scenes:
  8. Cognitive Shadows are pretty much ghosts, that's why I suspect a group of them are involved. The Bondsmiths (or the Ashyn equivalent) are the other half of my guess because they are Connected to Honor's Perpendicularity and also have shown the power to Ascend (at least in Dalinar's case), both being ways we've seen used in universe to become a CS. All true. We don't know how high ranking Iyatil is, but I think it's safe to assume at least moderately high. I guess it just doesnt feel well set up for me. Brandon has been very careful to not say anything about the origins of the Ghostbloods in book or in WoBs. If they were originally from off world I would have expected more hints towards that fact. Hints that casual readers would pick up on. Just like when he foreshadowed pretty heavily right away that whatever is influencing the Set is foreign to Scadrial. But that's just me. A lot of what we've seen in Rhythm of War could be more solid foreshadowing toward that reveal so who knows.
  9. I think it's MUCH more likely that the Ghostbloods are native to the system. I feel like any reveal that their leadership is from another planet would overly complicate things for fans of just Stormlight. At this point, my best guess is that they are/were and an ancient group of Bondsmiths or maybe even the Ashyn equivalent that became Cosmere aware after becoming Cognitive Shadows. Fits with the name and their symbol (3 diamonds = 3 spren). Maybe not so much the ideology, but hey, who knows if the oaths are still intact after death.
  10. I see a lot of people talking as if the Moash that Renarin revealed could be a Malatium type of vision, but what if it's a premonition of Moash's redemption instead? Renarin's abilities have been much more tied to futuresight than anything like malatium so far... Exited to see more of his powers now that he's had a year to learn them!
  11. A few interesting tid-bits in these chapters! Who do you all believe is working with the Sons of Honor to betray Dalinar? Taravangian? Dalinar opening a perpendicularity on command is interesting. It seems pretty clear at this point that Dalinar is a full Sliver as we've seen in other books, being Connected to such vast amounts of power. Makes me wonder if there are past Bondsmiths running around the Cognitive Realm as Cognitive Shadows (Ghostbloods?). Perhaps that would explain the below quote from Nale, or this scene where a much older Nohadon appears to Dalinar and tells him of his life before curtailing Dalinar's suspicions: Those aluminum spears with the gemstones were very interesting. Seems like Aluminum could be another method with which to capture spren in a fabrial. And finally... the Aimia bit! Seems like Cord may be a character in the upcoming novella!
  12. It occurred to me during a reread that we have see this exact same thing before off of Roshar. I'm sure anyone who's read secret history will remember the below scene. Seems like pretty much the same thing. Perpendicularities/large concentrations of Investiture that release some in kinetic form seem to produce these audible 'noises' in a much stronger form than what a Seeker would normally pick up. Very interesting.
  13. @Pagerunner I agree with most of what you're saying, but I don't remember that Syl quote and cant find it after looking pretty extensively through the Oathbringer eBook. Let me know if you find it, cause I think that's the main crux of our disagreement here.
  14. Or Cultivationlight
  15. I think this new chapter pretty much proves that the Sibling was the spren Melishi had bonded. It reads "Unfortunately, the Sibling had died during the Recreance." This seems pretty indisputable. The only counter evidence to this I know of is the gem archives (which do suggest the Sibling didnt die during the full Recreance we see at Feverstone), but we don't actually know the order in which the gems were imprinted or the full timeline of the abandonment. Is there anything else I'm missing? As for your idea that they were trapped in a fabrial, I think the below passage from the Stormfather makes it pretty clear that the Sibling had their oaths betrayed.
  16. This was a very interesting preview. I loved the intimate view of how different spren might see themselves philosophically. Hoping for many more spren POVs in book four! That conversation with Dalinar had some especially juicy bits. There were Bondsmiths on Ashyn?!
  17. He couldn't have picked a better title to get me exited.
  18. The hype is immeasurable! So close to new Cosmere content, and juicy stuff at that.
  19. Introduction After writing up my theory on the voices various characters throughout the series seem to hear I realized we didn't really know what these voices even were. I gave my best idea on why they affect the people they do but not what they were, so after thinking about it I found the answer I came up with to be quite simple and obvious so I thought I'd share my reasoning. If you find any discrepancies or stuff that doesn't make sense, please drop a comment. Enjoy! TLDR; What We Know First, let's take a look at what we know about these screams. Nale has had this to say about them: Brandon has further backed up what Nale gave us with this quote (which references the passage from Szeth's POV that I've put below as well). Brandon's response here stands out to me here for one reason in particular. He says that they are "slightly" attached to the spiritual realm. With the Nale quote above I'd always assumed this meant that what caused them was Spiritual in nature, but it seems like that is only the method through which they communicate with whoever they are haunting. This lead me to one conclusion; they are Cognitive Shadows. Cognitive Shadows Before I explain why this makes sense, read what Khriss has to say about what Cognitive Shaodws are realmatically: That first sentence in particular reminded me of something relevant to all this, Shallan's illusions. Read this quote from the end of Oathbringer when Shallan is battling with Amaram's forces: While obviously Shallan isn't creating Cognitive Shadows, it seems like she's imprinting on excess investiture, creating Cognitive entities that do not have expanded souls and thus disappear. The sapient nature of these screams is even displayed in Oathbringer. Read this quote from one of these voices at the end of Oathbringer: Looking back, we've seen communication from cognitive entities before, and it was facilitated through Spiritual Connection, just as Nale says. Read the below quote from Secret History: Conclusion This answer seems pretty intuitive to me and seems in line with the mechanics we know about Cognitive Shadows. I have some more ideas that are a little less well supported on this topic but I think I'll leave it off here; I don't want to taint the pretty solid nature of this post with crackpot. Let me know what you guys think!
  20. Introduction Going back all the way to the WoK I've been theorizing as to why Szeth hears the screams that he does. It never seemed like too big a mystery but it was still interesting. When we finally got a straight answer in Oatbringer I was initially satisfied until I thought about it a little bit more. Here's the explanation Nale gives: It made sense and was along the lines of what I'd been thinking for awhile. The only thing different about Szeth was that he was using the Honorblade, so it just made sense until I realized we saw the exact same thing happen to Dalinar and Eshonai, people who had never wielded one. The Madness of the Heralds So when trying to understand why these characters are all experiencing the same phenomenon I decided to look into all accounts we had of the different Herald's Madness'. I came across this quote from Nale: That last part stood out to me in particular, but I didn't really have an idea of what could have set Ishar apart from the rest until I remembered a particularly relevant part from a Dalinar flashback. When Dalinar turns to drinking to push away the voices he now hears he befriends all of our favorite mad beggar, Jezrien, who seems to be rambling through their conversation incoherently. He has this to say at one point: When I first read this line I thought it was just Jezrien being able to see some effect from Nergaoul on Dalinar through some strange Herald-sense but the line I emphasized gave me pause this time. He implies that he can legitimately relate to what he sees in Dalinar and quite heavy handedly says that Unmade are the cause, then says that he is able to even sense them, implying a Connection. Linking this idea of Heralds and the Unmade I remembered this WoB: I'd always assumed that the Herald's madness was mostly because of the torture they endured, but perhaps that torture wasn't purely physical, as surely Ishar wouldn't have been able to mentally withstand it better than Taln. Now, I don't mean to imply that Ishar isn't mad, he obviously is, but there must be some reason both Nale and Ash believe him to be sane. The below deathrattle from Taln's perspective made me even more certain that the torture they endured involved more then just pain, and that they possibly were each assigned an Unmade, leading the rest of the Heralds to believe that Ishar wasn't going through what the rest of them were: I doubt the other Heralds not being on Braize would've ramped up the physical torture. The Unmade So what could the Unmade have been doing to the Heralds as well as Dalinar and Eshonai? Well this specific WoB about how Odium uses the Unmade on Roshar stood out to me: Looking back, we've seen stuff exactly like how Ruin's influence is described from both Dalinar and Eshonai, two people pivotal to Odium's plans who he would have wanted influence over. Read the below quotes: Notice the lack of emotion, similar to what Nale describes. This is almost exactly what we see in Mistborn. Looking back, I'm surprised i didn't find the lack of similar behavior in Venli in Oathbringer suspicious. Throughout the book she seems much more level headed then Eshonai did despite also holding a form of power and not being any further in the Oaths than Eshonai was for almost the entire time, and guess what? No screaming either. Looking back we even see similar behavior with Szeth. Remember his behavior in WoR, when we know he was almost definitely being closely followed by Odium. These quotes are before his before his first attack on Dalinar: Sounds kinda like the presence Shallan felt in Uritheru when Re-Shephir was there. Now read this quote: Sounds exactly like the effect of an Unmade to me, almost exactly like what we see from someone getting rioted too un-subtly. The compounded effect of this paired with his bond to the Honorblade and subsequent stronger connection to the Unmade (showcased by Jezrien), could explain why Szeth's madness seems so much worse than Dalinar or Eshonai's. Conclusion In conclusion, it seems like the Heralds hold a direct Connection to the Unmade, and that their direct effect could cause the deaths of those you kill to haunt you. It makes sense, as we know that death is associated with powering the various Unmade's effects. I'm open to criticism on a lot of the details of this theory, especially the parts about Ishar, but overall I think Jezrien's quote is a pretty blatant hint towards the foundation of this theory holding some truth. Let me know what you guys think! Edit: Find my follow up to this theory here.
  21. Introduction Since my trip to Wisconsin, and talk with Brandon, I have been constructing a theory in my head about the exact function of how Magic is used throughout the Cosmere. Using various WoBs and different example from the text I planned out a post that went through each magic system and explained how it works at a realmatic level, and how it uses Investiture to affect the Physical, Cognitive, or Spiritual Realm. Today i finally sat down and wrote the whole thing this morning and formatted it this evening. If you see any discrepancies or false claims, feel free to comment after reading. If you have anything to add, please do so as well. See the the WoB and refrences down below that are numbered according to where they show up. The corresponding number will be posted within (parenthesis). Enjoy! Magic Allomancy The genetically inherited sDNA of an Allomancer gives them connection in the spirit web that a person does normally have. When a person is snapped this allows for a shard's investiture to flow through them using these inherited spirit web pathways, I believe these pathways are what endows each power, with each new pathway (or pathways group) giving them 1 Allomantic ability.(1) When the investiture flows through them they channel it into said pathways, giving them the ability to change internal (zinc, brass, etc.) and external (copper, bronze, etc.) phenomena within the three realms. Zinc and Brass both use the investiture to influence a being's spiritual aspect through the cognitive realm. Copper uses its investiture to disrupt the pulses that investiture gives off. This is similar to how Shardplate makes it harder to affect the wearer with emotional Allomancy (2). Bronze uses investiture to recognize these pulses and translate it into something the allomancer can understand. Tin eyes and thugs use the investiture to bolster the physical connections in the spirit web. Brandon has described the realms as the spiritual realm being a light, the cognitive being the beam, and the physical being the surface that is hit. Tin eyes and Thugs circulate more investiture than normal through parts of the light as to make the image on the surface brighter in some areas.(3) Iron and steel use investiture to generate kinetic energy in the physical realm by using connection in the spiritual realm (Kelsier or Brandon, can't remeber which likened looking into the spiritual realm to the steel sight of an inquisitor or the blue lines on an allomancer) to relate the general mass of the allomancer to what ever the investiture is pushing on. I believe that with enough investiture, a steel pusher could push on normal objects and people, but that it more easily affects metal because the investiture is keyed in by metal, so it is a path with MUCH less resistance. This is just a theory, however, and is only backed up by the fact that Inquisitors can see all things with Steel Sight. Duralumin forces all investiture out through the connections instantly, amplifying their affect in that instant by flaring it more than could normally be achieved. Aluminum immediately forces all investiture out through that connection, wasting it all and throwing it back into a shard. Nicrosil and chromium do these things, but to other Allomancers.(4) Gold and Electrum both use investiture to strengthen other connections that could have or will be. This gives images in the physical realm that the allomancer can see. In other words, it shows connections that aren't actually there yet, which gives off a limelight in the physical realm, which only leaves a ghost image in the physical realm. These ghost images grow in power until you are given a near vision, if flared hard enough as a powerful allomancer or when used with Duralumin. Atium does this, but with the external world. When burned hard enough or with duralumin it breaks the Atium Magic connection itself and allows you to glimpse into the spiritual realm. Cadmium and Bendalloy do a similar thing, which is why they are in the same category as Gold and Electrum. They enhance connection to the overall timeline, which brings your physical self closer to said spirit connection, kind of like a timey whimey steel push or iron pull. If it is a future connection, you, and those around you (again, external) rush towards the future. If it is towards the past you put on the time brakes and skid, leaving you and those around you closer to the past than normal. Lerasium gives you all the above connections, but as to its other effects I cannot guess. Feruchemy This magic works in a similar fashion, but instead of snapping in new connections, it utilizes the connection all humans are born with. This is why a snapping isn't required (same with Awakening). It raises the "Investiture pressure" of these different connections or lowers them, and stores the extra inside of the metal mind keyed to that connection via metals. This is why a person cannot use another's metal mind. The investiture that it has been affected by has the marks (or identity) of that person's own spark of life (or innate investiture). I think that new investiture is still added to the soul when the sDNA is inherited, but it just enhances or connections rather than adding completely new ones, so extra space from a snapping is not required. Iron, Steel, Tin, Pewter, Electrum, Gold, Bendalloy, Cadmium, Bronze, Brass, Atium, and Zinc all work this way, very simply. Gold is a little more interesting than those others because it is similar to how Stormlight heals, and will probabaly be similar to how many other magic systems regenerate the magic user. Copper is a bit different. It completely erases the memory that exists and stores it. Adding more new memories back then stored still does not require extra snapped out space because gaining new memories is a function that happens unmagically. Chromium works pretty basically, but has interesting implications. In Secret History [spolier]One of the Ire alludes to people being able to find locations they wish to find by using Fortune (4). Brandon has also said that Hoid uses Feruchemy to be where he needs and wants to be. Nicrosil allows one to completely store away their extra magic imbuing connections in a similar way that Copper can completely store memories. I'm not sure if you regain your connections when you stop storing, but I doubt it. The ability to gain extra connections does not require extra snapped out connections because everyone has the ability to have extra connections added. Aluminum stores your sense of self, or Identity. We have not seen much of this power directly in action but we know that . Duralumin works by reducing and enhancing one's Connection to an area. This allows for someone to have connections similar to someone who has grown up in an area, giving you an understanding of the local languages, etc. When Compounding is used to fuel Feruchemy I believe that the Investiture used in the Feruchemical charge is able to ride the new pathways to the old ones they affect, essentially taking a path of least resistance, and thus increasing the investiture efficiency when used. It's like like getting energy from a poor conductor, then shooting it back through a super conductor rather than using a bad conductor once again. You get more energy back in then usual. This is again, just a theory, as I have no way to prove that allomantic connections are any better than regular ones at carrying investiture, but this makes sense to me. Hemallurgy: Before I explain how I think this works I want to look at the Three Realm Light analogy once more. When the light is turned on, specific portions of the light correspond with the image upon the surface. When a Hemallurgic spike strikes the portion of the image that corresponds to where a magic inducing connection is on the light, it uses ruin's investiture to pierce the three realms (Like a perpendicularly, Brandon alludes to what I am speaking of now in my Madisson report) and absorb the connections and investiture that is there. This spike can then do the reverse, and spit out those connections and investiture back into a new soul. This is why everyone can use Hemallurgy, it doesn't utilize connections inside the host to key into investiture, but rather it uses the type of metal to do so. I can't explain the connection to blood, but I just want to point out that blood is related to the spiritual realm, so there is probably something going on there. Maybe it acts as a insulator for the investiture and connections within the spiritual realm?(5) Surgebinding When a person who is snapped bonds with a Spren it fills the snapped out space with new connections, similar to Allomancy. When a person speaks their oaths it adds more investiture pressure to these new connections similar to Feruchemy and also increases investiture efficiency within these connections as well as in the enhanced healing, speed, and strength connections. This process allows for the magic we see utilized in the surges, which I will explain below. Before I get to how exactly the surges worked I also want to talk about the spren side of things. I think that as more oaths are spoken, not only are the spren dragged farther into the physical realms, but they are also imbued with more connections and also allows them to key into Honor's investiture to transform into powerful invested objects. Shardblades work by being invested enough to puncture through the realms in a similar way to spikes, and then rip off and destroy parts of the soul. Nightblood is so much so invested that he can completely evaporate a being's entire presence in all three realms. Sharplate works by being invested enough to disrupt other investiture. It basically stops Shardblades from being able to puncture the wearers spirit web. Since it is so heavily invested it also deflects allomantic pulses and other investitures. We don't know much about many of the surges, so I will explain the ones we have seen. I will update this theory as we learn more about the surges. Gravitation This magical connection works by internally affecting the Shardworlds connections and hold onto a person. It does similar things externally to objects that are lashed. Adhesion This works by manipulation the part of the spirit web that deals with air pressure, making the portion of the physical image that deals with air pressure more so bright, which sticks other physical objects to it. Illumination This works by creating ghost images in the physical realm in a similar fashion to Gold and Electrum. I think this allows Truthwatchers glimpse images of the future and allows Lightweavers to... well... weave light. Soulcasting This one is pretty unique compared to the ones we have seen so far. This works by allowing the magic user to create new connections in another soul, and then forces investiture through those new connections to make them the path of least resistance, transforming the spirit web and changing the physical realm image. Adhesion: Works in a similar way to Abrasion, but with friction instead of air pressure. AonDor Now this magic system I don't really understand, because we still don't understand how it is initiated. I will probably update my theory on this subject when it how initiation works on Sel is told to us in Arcanum Unbound. Awakening This works by sending pulses of investiture into an object in a similar fashion to emotional Allomancy, with the command being an analogue to the emotion that a rioter wants you to feel. This investiture then creates new connections in the Awakened Object's spirit web, giving it a kind of sentience. When enough Investiture is used to create this mind it can create near complete Robot like minds, such as Noghtblood. So basicly, Awakening is like coding a soul, and then using investiture to power that soul. Lifeless already have code there, and stone lifeless are a similar enough image to leave an impression of a code, so they are able to follow the new code given to them as if they were a human. The breath cannot be taken away, and I'm pretty sure this is because of the complexity of the person or type IV's spirit web, kind of in the way that the beyond cannot take away Cognitive shadows as easily if they have more spiritual connections. The different Heightenings work in a similar fashion to Feruchemy, in that it enhances various preexisting Connections within the spirit web. Effects of Magic Use of any magic within the Cosmere, or any handling of Investiture, effects ones spirit web. One way it can be effected is by the investitures Intent. Any investiture, no matter how small, affects ones personality with its mandate. In large amounts this can lead to a person subcoming completely to the Intent, becoming a shell with which the power acts. They are basically just riding the power at that point, as opposed to directing it. This happened to Ati, most likely.(12) Another way Investiture is Savantism. This happens when wasted investiture accumulates in l, basicly investing these different connections. When I talked with Brandon at Oddesey Con it was confirmed that things have been invested and are used to the investiture in their souls begin to wither away when there is no longer investiture running through it, such as the stones and wood in Elantris. When this happens to an Allomancer it gives them extended abilities with these connections in the soul, but leaves them in a burned out a damaged state when not burning. Looking at Spook and the Three Realm Light analogy, I belive that he left those areas on the light too bright for too long and ended up burning the image surface. While the light is dimmer, the image remains burned, leaving him with the effects that he had. These damages can be looked as as boons, but are especially dangerous in the physical Allomancy connections.(13)(14)(15) Relevant WoB (1) Brandon: Over time using the magic will invest you, on Scadrial. Most of the power is not coming from, on Roshar the power isn't coming from the person either (He cut himself off, so I assume this is how it works on Scadrial even though he didn't finish his thought) so I'm going to have to back up on that one and say, yes, the mistborn are as invested as a Knight Radiant, because in both cases the majority of the power is coming from somewhere else, but there is the spirit web. Investing the wrong term, but you have all these connections in the spiritual realm, so yanking you away from them, or rewriting them (like soulcasting or forgery) is harder. (2) Brandon: Yes, investiture disrupts investiture. It's harder for her to even soulcast a regular person than, say, a rock. (3) I could find this refrence, although i just read it hours ago. If anyone finds it splease PM me and i will update this post. (4) BRANDON SANDERSON (REDDIT) 1. It's consistent in the Spiritual Realm. Location isn't particularly important there. 2. Very interchangeable, but not always simple to apply. 3. Investiture can not be created or destroyed. It follows it's own version of the laws of Thermodynamics. JOE_____ (REDDIT)So what happens to the investiture that is lost when a person is spiked and the spike isn't set in the new person immediately? Does it return to the big pool of investiture in the sky like the power from wheel of time where if its not actively being used it returns to the source? BRANDON SANDERSON (REDDIT)What happens to someone's body when it's not being used by a particular person? The system is built to work like that.(5) Brandon: Right, Hoid talks about Perpendicularities on Scadrial, if you go look at that there are certain places he talks about that. ,eyes just say that large concentrations of investiture can cause a puncture through the spiritual realm straight to the physical realm. If you know how to use it, you may transition. That's not the only way but is the primary way. Guy: And of of Course you can soulcast (Elsecall?) to get there. Brandon: Yes. Guy who asked about the four armed spren: Now that's a very interesting analogy you just made, you said "punctured" almost as if it were a spike. Brandon: Yes, yes, that was intentional. (6) QUESTION Can Odium pick up pieces of a Shard without changing the nature of his Shard? BRANDON SANDERSON Any investiture, over time, will slowly change one’s personality, no matter how small that investiture. (7) INTERVIEW: Mar 20th, 2014 WOR Signing Report - IronCaf (Paraphrased)IRONCAFIn what ways is the process of becoming an allomantic savant like body building or other exercise?BRANDON SANDERSON [Paraphrasing] That is not an inapt metaphor for it. It's like a wedge gets in the soul and cracks it, and investiture can fill it up. IRONCAFAnd using allomancy breaks it further? BRANDON SANDERSONYes. (15) Random lady: In Elantris it talks about how to wood and stone in the city is rotten and crumbling. Why does this happen? Brandon: This is because when objects become Invested for long periods of time their spirit web changes to accomodate the investiture. When the investiture was pulled up of the stuff in Elantris it's spirit web was severely damaged so it showed that in the physical realm. This happened with the Lord Ruler when the Bands of Mourning were ripped out of him. Conclusion If there is anything you guys think I should add or fix, please let me know and I will update the thread. Feel free to share your thoughts.
  22. Introduction It's just about time for another extra-long Blightsong theory after the latest few waves of new WoB; the nature of the Parshmen and what was done to them has always been one of my favorite mysteries in the series and Oathbringer brought us to the very edge of it. After reviewing some related WoB I'm pretty sure I can fill in at least some of that mystery with some pretty plausible ideas. Let me know what you guys think! Abstract Melishi First lets start off with what we already know. The event that transformed the Singers into what we saw at the beggining of the series took place at the end of a conflict between the last generation of Knights Radiant and a group of Singers lead by the Unmade Ba-Ado-Mishram. Innovation on the side of the Unmade, an ability to Connect to the Parshmen and facilitate forms of power, pushed certain scholar's within the orders of Knights Radiant to devise a before unheard of strategy to defeat the forces of Odium. They planned to trap Ba-Ado-Mishram in a gemstone like the one that Dalinar used to trap Nergaoul in an attempt to break the Connection she had to the Singers and ensure an easy defeat of the enemy forces once their leader and powers were incapacitated. This almost as far as our knowledge goes, but an epigraph in Oathbringer implies that maybe some unintended consequences of this imprisonment is what destroyed the Singer, read it below: While this may be the case, I have become certain that this is a red herring due to the little bit of history from this time frame we do have past the above point, read the below epigraph from both the in-world and real world Words of Radiance: This is interesting not only because there seemed to be a change of plans from simply imprisoning Ba-Ado-Mishram and defeating the Singers in battle, but also because we can say for certain that trapping an Unmade is not a Bondsmith specific power as evidenced by Shallan's view of Re-Shephir's past. If this was not what Melishi did to defeat the Singers then what could he have done to destroy them? Lets take a look at how the Stormfather describes Bondsmith powers to get an understanding of what could have taken place here: The wording here is interesting to me. What Melishi did seems to be the opposite of what the Stormfather is describing, he cut the Connection the Singers have to each other and destroyed an entire people with them. Syl had something very relevant to say about the restoration of the Singers in the below quote: It seems as if whatever Melishi did to destroy the Singers was seriously destructive in nature and I have some ideas on what exactly he did to them realmatically. Nature of the Singers A recent WoB tipped me off as to what exact function of the Singer's was destroyed by Melishi, read it below: It seems as if a Singer's Identity is malleable and that their system of trapping a spren with their gemheart is how they change it. Also interesting to note is that Hemalurgy is also able to do something similar. After thinking about it a bit, I realized we have seen something extremely similar to the Parshmen before using that very system. Read the below WoB: This is pretty much a matching description of what we see with the Singers, only missing the whole magic physical object component... or is it? If you think about it, gemhearts and the Hemalurgic spikes responsible for the Kandra blessings seem to be very similar in nature with one very slight difference, gemhearts are a natural phenomenon resulting from a leak of Investiture from the Spiritual Realm to the Physical one. Read the below WoB and passages to get a quick understanding of Singer gemhearts and their nature: This whole WoB is very interesting to me, particularly the connection to Dragonsteel and that last sentence. First let me touch on the Dragonsteel bit here is a passage from the released sample chapters that details the main character encountering the bones of the Dragonsteel equivalent to the Parshendi while in the caverns of the Shattered Plains: This makes me more certain that gemhearts are more than just gems that allow a singer to transform, I think that they are tied to their other Cognitive abilities as well as the race in this world are also able to communicate telepathically similar to the rhythms. I also find the color similarity between these bones and a gemheart very interesting. For my second point about the above WoB, why would there be an assumption that Singers dont have gemhearts among humans. Wouldnt some physician be able to find it in a Parshmen at some point? This is even more confusing when you consider that this seems to be a lost knowledge, read the below quote from Venli: All of this together leads me to believe that the pieces of a Singer's soul that Melishi ripped away (ones that seems similar to what gives a Kandra's sapience and blessing) are the ones directly tied to the Singer's gemheart and that on top of the physical change wrought to their bodies that made them more like dullform they also had their very gemhearts taken from them like a Kandra losing its second spike. While I cant tell you exactly how Melishi did this all, I can say it did still likely involved Ba-Ado-Mishram seeing as how the Last Legion, Singers that had abandoned their Connection to their gods, were left unaffected. Consequences of Division My emphasis on how similar this all is to Hemalurgy should tell you just how evil what Melishi did to the Parshmen is. The very nature of this act seems to spit in the face of the Bondsmith oaths, leading one to question how his spren managed through this. I'm sure you all know I'm about to suggest the Sibling was involved because of how obvious it is but let me back up this point with a few more WoB pointing towards its involvement: A strain between Melishi and the Sibling's bond also makes sense within the context of the degradation of Urithiru and the Sibling's apparent "withdrawal from men" described in the gem archive. Conclusion So what do you guys think, is there a relationship between what happened to the Singers and their gemhearts? Did Melishi end up harming the sibling in the process? Feel free to poke holes anywhere you see them. Have a good day folks!
  23. Fabrial and Singer forms also utilize spren bonds but it has not been confirmed if those systems they utilize are of Honor or not. You're making an assumption; I think there is a decent chance he's right about the purelake fish's powers not being of Honor. Brandon has said that the Old Magic is not a full magic system but it's own weird thing. I believe that the curse/boon system we see is related to her magic system(s) but what we've seen her and the Nightwatcher do is moreso a power than anything else. We don't know at all if it was always micro-organism based. Personally I think there's a pretty good chance you're right but its important to note when you're making assertions.
  24. We almost definitely have seen some other ones in the Greater Rosharan system at least. The disease based Ashynite magic definitely seems to go along the same ideas of "unwanted effect in exchange for wanted effect", read the below:
  25. I love this post, really really great write up Argent. I have a few points to make in reaction to what you lay out here so let me go through them one by one: I'm still in the camp that believes that Cultivation is just as involved with Surgebinding as Honor. While the bond and oaths are integral parts of the magic system, I find that the progression of the bond is just as core of a concept. A radiant isn't able to bind a surge if they haven't cultivated the ideals of the entities attached to that surge within themselves. I also disagree with your point here that the type of spren working within what you believe to be Honor's system doesn't matter because it seems to contradict the point you make with Renarin and Glys. If the original surges are not at least partially of Cultivation, and new Shardic influence (like Odium's) within Surgebinding adds new powers, then why would her Spren not introduce powers other than those seen in the Honorblades? While they are manipulating surges in these examples, I would argue that the Fabrial system is the one that Odium corrupted. Not only do the Fused inhabit the Singer's body using a gemstone, but the fact that their power is limited in comparison to a Surgebinders is something we know is a consequence of accessing surges through mechanical means. Read the below relevant WoB: I'm working under the assumption that their inability to lash multiple times is similar to a Soulcaster's inability to be flexible in what it can transform stuff into here, but I think that's a relatively safe one. Maybe Renarin and Glys are the example of Odium corrupting Surgebinding you're looking for, as it doesn't seem like their powers have any restrictions although I don't think we have anything to compare them to. I agree that Voidbinding was used on Ashyn, and while I like your ideas on Voidbinding here, I also believe that it was a corruption of a system that already existed. There is one quote particularly relevant to this idea: Perhaps people on Ashyn, in a manner similar to what you propose with people forming a bond with Odium in return for power, could also bond Cultivation for a more formal power than what we've seen from her in return for a curse in a way similar to what Dalinar does. Within this model I'm thinking that the Dawnshards (whom I believe to have been the Unmade before they were corrupted) were entities that existed within and were permeated with this esoteric magic system and could bind people in the manner you suggest before Odium's influence turned them into weapons of destruction. Maybe the Nightwatcher is an entity similar to what the Dawnshards used to be. I find it interesting that Lift can sense both the effects of the Unmade as well as the influence of the Nightwather on people and I think it may be indicative of some of what I'm thinking. All this would make the below quote make a lot of sense within your theory, especially with your thoughts on Yelig-nar and Amaram: Very interesting that the author of the poem of Ista chose to use 'bind' instead of 'bond' here. I also think that, within this very speculative model, the Oathpact may be involved. Perhaps Honor worked within the boundaries of the Ashyn magic systems in an extremely intricate way, forming a direct bond with the Heralds (Ashynites) to grant them the boon of locking away the Fused but also cursing them to Damnation. Im just spitballing here but I find all these ideas very interesting, what do you guys think?