HoidsRock

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  1. To my knowledge, we have no direct evidence of their fate. But I agree with you that they will show up again. Another hint is that Dalinar promises Rlain that if any normal Parshendi survive, he will protect them. After Rlain's POV in OB, we don't see him on-screen again. I have often thought he has gone to search for any missing Parshendi.
  2. I have been rereading the Stormlight books (including Edgedancer) but this time following a theme or character (e.g. I read in succession the Lift Interlude from WOR, Edgedancer, and all the scenes that have Lift in OB). When reading the three Prologues, I began to write up my thoughts about what we know regarding Restares and the Sons of Honor and why Gavilar listed him as a suspect. I still plan to do that but when reading previous postings regarding Amaram’s actions in OB, there seem to be a lot of questions about Amaram’s changing of allegiances at the end of the book: Would someone so seemingly devout switch to team Odium so quickly? Sure, Odium may have shown him the truth about the Singers and the Heralds, but why didn’t it make him catatonic? Walk away like others did? Why would he even believe Odium anyway? The devout can handle threats to their faith. They may disbelieve the source or they may accommodate the message as Amaram did when Dalinar told him the Almighty was dead (WoR ch 67): Does Amaram shift of allegiances mark a larger shift of the Sons of Honor? Has Odium likewise convinced them that the rights of the Singers, the abandonment of the Heralds and that Honor is dead/Cultivation is a pagan myth, means Odium is the only true object of worship? I’ll deal with the third point first, which is to say that I doubt the Sons of Honor have switched to Odium. First, I think people strongly committed to Vorin faith would be able to survive the truths which Odium presented (e.g. Kadash at the end of OB was rereading the ancient theologians to justify modern vorinism). Second, according to the letter Mraize sends to Shallan, the Sons of Honor thought the desolations would restore Knights Radiant as well the voidbringers (OB ch 40). Even if the Heralds were mad, the Sons of Honor could count a success at restoring the KR. Of course, Mraize may be an unreliable narrator but it seems a strange lie to add. Certainly, Amaram shows no hesitancy on-screen with the role as leader of the restored Knights Radiant. But what Amaram himself? In his shift in allegiance consistent and believable? Consistent, no? Believable, yes? Or, (since I run the risk of being inconsistent myself), Amaram’s actions do not make sense to me as a high-ranking official of secret society dedicated to the Vorin church. They make perfect sense to me as self-absorbed, conceited yet highly insecure attention seeker, who desperately seeks approval from everyone but especially those he sees as worthy (Gavilar, Dalinar, Jasnah) and when he does not receive it, he vacillates between needing the approval even more and a nursing a toxic resentment. Amaram is consistently a narcissist. The touches that Sanderson gives Amaram paint the picture: He is magnanimous to darkeyes…but calls them darkborn (the only one in the series to do so). He wants an apology from Kaladin for the accusation of murdering his men but only because it is in the best interest of Kaladin. He laments the unfair burden placed on the Sons of Honor to cause the desolation. And of course, he had no choice but to take shardblade and kill Kaladin’s men. Other observations: At the end of WOR we get Amaram’s only POV. In it, he laments his act of mercy for sparing Kaladin. Why? Because it cost him his friendship with Dalinar. In OB ch 53, we get a scene with Jasnah and Amaram from her POV. He goes from wooing her, to mentioning his mother, to reaching for his shardblade. Weird. She clearly sees him in a way he has never been able to see himself. Jasnah’s opinion: Throughout OB, Amaram desperately wants Dalinar to see it his way, to understand that they are the same. When Dalinar refuses, the anger (and the feelings of rejection) reaches a boiling point. So Dalinar, and those who follow him, reject him while his armies (in their hatred of House Kholin) and Odium elevate him. So, yes, I can believe he switched sides. Three final points: If Mraize is being honest and accurate that Gavilar brought Amaram into the Sons of Honor, I don’t believe Amaram would need to be very sold on the ideals of the organization. The very fact that most powerful man on Roshar, Amaram’s ideal man, invited him to join a secret society would have been impossible to resist. But after Gavilar was gone, the effect could have begun to wear off. Especially after the rejection from his brother. Some narcissists do feel guilt, particularly when they feel they have disappointed some ghost in their past (Gavilar? Mommy?) So Kaladin’s pushback on his guilt could have hit a button in Amaram’s mind he was trying to ignore. I reread the fight scene between Kaladin and Amaram ignoring everything except their dialogue. Amaram is clearly having a psychotic breakdown—not surprising since he has fused with an unmade. What comes out of his mouth is nothing but narcissistic nonsense that cannot be connected by even the most twisted logic.
  3. First of all, I think this is a very interesting discussion. Second, I am in the Adolin thumbs-up camp--pretty much everywhere. (Maya fully alive, check!). Third, I think there is an interesting plot line with Adolin that BWS develops in Wheel of Time but sort of runs out of space. Now I do know that the 17th shard explicitly avoids the involvement of the Wheel of Time so I don't know if there is a special way to block spoilers or if merely mentioning WOT is taboo. Moderators, please jump in if I have crossed a line. Spoiler for WOT, Towers of Midnight: Adolin occupies a unique place in-world. He begins the series in the role of the dashing, foppish prince. Third in succession to the most powerful kingship in Roshar, heir to the most powerful princedom. He moves to anger and resentment towards the lowly darkeyes promoted to captain while not understanding his place. By the end of OB, he is actually feeling inferior to Kaladin! He has gone from the top of the Rosharan social pyramid to wondering where he fits. Quite often in long series, I find that authors reflect turmoil with body count--you thought things were crazy before, just look at how many people I killed in this scene! I feel through the character of Adolin, BWS tries to partially reflect in-world in a sympathetic character's disorientation. One final note. I enjoy, and hope to seem more of, Adolin's relationship with Kaladin. Kaladin had one true friend who didn't allow himself to be awed by the Stormblessed--Moash (it didn't work out too well). Adolin has a close relationship with another lighteyes, Jakamov (it didn't work out too well). The way these two characters struggle with one another and yet grudgingly like each other is again something I want to see more of.
  4. I too think @RShara has got this right and agree that the hatred of the robbers in Kharbranth is significant. It certainly struck Shallan that way:
  5. Taranvangian boon was capacity and compassion. At least in his own thinking, his curse is that they never occur at the same time:
  6. The fact that Jasnah calls him Wit and not Hoid has bugged me for a while. Wit seems to be a title entirely from his role in Elkohar's court (although we know from the Second Letter that apparently Hoid thinks it's appropriate). I don't believe Jasnah was ever with the Alethi armies on the Shattered Plains and based on this statement from Adolin makes, it seems that he is new to the position. On the other hand, we have this statement from Jasnah to Shallan while in Kharbranth: So Jasnah knows of Wit in his role in court. How? If Jasnah had called him Hoid, I would have no problem believing their paths had crossed. Maybe their paths crossed before Wit's initial journey to the Shattered Plains? He told he planned to become Wit and she found out by spanreed he was successful. Alternately, given his coming and going, he met Jasnah after becoming Wit and yet still was able to prove his bona fides to her as the King's Wit. But mostly I am stymied.
  7. Thanks, and all kidding aside, I appreciate you putting the topic up. BWS has made clear that the Heralds will continue to move beyond cameos in future (the most obvious being Ash and Taln getting their own books), so keeping scorecards of what we know so far, helps me tremendously.
  8. Wow @AC12, two days ago I started writing a long post about the Heralds but have been caught up with other things and so have not checked the board. When I got here, I saw this. In other words you scooped me . So I will edit mine and just put in a few comments of the Heralds I have the most interest or questions about. Jezrien Having encountered Abu's page time in OB, I more appreciate Nale's snide comment in the Lift Interlude of WOK Taln Is Taln really Taln? The only odd thing about the identification of Taln, is BWS’ caginess referring to the him as, “the person calling himself Taln.” Contra this, we have the WOB confirming we have seen Taln (and others): Furthermore, Taln is identified by Ash, Mraize, and the Stormfather (below): So yes, I think Taln is Taln. Ishar Ishar has been identified as Tezim by the Stormfather. He is also gives this psychological analysis of Tezim: This is actually the only identification of Ishar = Tezim. Two other characters refer to Ishar without the explicit Tezim id. Ash, upon seeing Taln: Nale to Szeth: So is Tezim really Ishar, since the fellow Heralds would disagree with the Stormfather’s analysis? Luckily we have an on-point WOB to settle this: Battar According to Tarangvian: Can we trust him? Not completely as this conflicts with what Tarangvian’s POV gives for both the motivation to seek out the Nightwatcher which in turn led to the Diagram: Dova does not show up until after the diagram: So is Dova really Battah? My guess is yes and Tarangvian misrepresenting his source of information allows him to avoid discussing the Diagram. That said, unless there are some WOBs that I don't know about, Tarangvian is at least partially an unreliable narrator. Kelek Here I have some questions. As mentioned above (and by process of elimination), Kelek is thought to be Nale’s companion the night of Gavilar’s assassination. Here, the "creature" seems to be Szeth and the blade seems to be Jezrien’s honorblade. The only nagging problem I have with this is the phrase “my lord.” Granted Jezrien is the Herald of Kings but since Kelek is speaking to fellow Herald Nale, why not say “our lord.” I may be reading too much into it. The one alternative theory I have heard bandied about is that Kaladin encountered Kelek on a bridge run: Based on the physical descriptions, these are not the same people. So which is Kelek? If I had to guess, would go with the first. All I got.
  9. As maxal says I think/hope Rlain since the book will feature the Listeners. Also, will Thude make an appearance? Eshonai claimed he would die but I am not sure I believe it. Dalinar promised Rlain he would help any survivors. I also hope to see more of Rysn, as I want to see what her larkin can do. In terms of a new "where," I am calling on the island of Akak. Wild hunch, but I want to get this idea out. It's been mentioned in both WOK and OB. According to the map, it is part of Alethkar, yet since Dalinar conquered it from the Reshi, I don't think it belongs to either of the two closest princedoms (Sadeas and Aladar). It's an island that could serve as a place for refugees. Dalinar has already inferred that windrunners could do damage on an approaching fleet, making it more defensible. My prediction is that Akak becomes the center northern Alethkar.
  10. I've thought about this subject a bit. First off, Moash seems to blame the king more than Roshone. In WOR, it could be blamed on him not knowing Roshone's name but in OB, his hatred for Elkohar is an obsession. Perhaps now that Elkohar is gone, it will switch to Roshone. I certainly don't see Moash going after Lirin but I could Lirin, Hesina and Oroden caught in the crossfire. On the other hand...what about Ialai going after Kaladin's family? In WOK, Kaladin was an unknown troublemaker but Anaram could have connected the dots for her and point that Kaladin has family in Hearthstone. Ialai does not have much of a motive beyond maliciousness but she did seem to suspect the bridgemen. Kaladin's family could provide leverage, revenge, etc.
  11. Also, that would obviously make Ico's deadeye father Timbre's grandfather:
  12. Actually missed it the first time. It is very helpful. Thank you. Moving into crazy theory time, the lesser Spren for Skybreakers are passionspren. They show up three times in Oathbringer, and twice the context is romance. The third time is more ambiguous when Dalinar contemplates killing Gavilar: As to why they are associated are with Skybreakers, I only have two references: And then on Szeth's 3rd Ideal
  13. Excellent guess. I am updating my chart. Makes sense but I assumed they would be aligned with Ashspren.
  14. I like it. These appear as little stormclouds in the physical realm (which is amusing) but we know that Kaladin could not recognize windspren in Shadesmar so maybe logicspren appear differently there. And geometry makes sense for logicspren.
  15. Looking back on this I realize my chart never uploaded.