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  1. Totally respect your speculation. I disagree, but I wish you luck with it! Just in case, my intent was not to say one was worse than the other. Everyone has their own crosses to bear, and Kaladin swearing the second oath while trying to protect bridgemen about to die while Lopen swears the second oath while talking to a soldier that just lost the limb doesn't change the fact that they both swore the oath, and they both protected those that couldn't protect themselves. It doesn't change the strength of the moment for the radiants and those they protected. What I am saying however, I will get to later in this post. I respect your belief. I disagree with it, but I wish you luck with your theory! So here is the full quote: "The Edgedancers are too busy relocating the tower's servants and farmers to send a representative to record their thoughts in these gemstones. I'll do it for them, then. They are the ones who will be most displaced by this decision. The Radiants will be taken in by nations, but what of all these people without homes?" So the radiants who made the decision to abandon the tower already have places to go. The servants and farmers on the other hand will be the most displaced by this decision, and will be left without homes. No one thought of what would happen to those people. Except the edgedancers. Who rememebering the forgotten, are more concerned with finding a home for these people, than recording a legacy for their order. Sounds in line with what I think and expect of the order. So why do I keep harping on that scenario being oath worthy? And again I zero in on oath worthy. I am not saying Adolin could not be an edgedancer. I am not saying he does not think like one. I am saying had Maya been living in that moment, Adolin (to me) would not have sworn an oath. If we look at every oath sworn for every other knight, it involves a deep personal realization. Lift realized Gawx was abandoned by his own people, and partially his own family (he was related to one of the thieves). He had no one else. He was nothing to her. She had just met him that night. Now let us compare that to Adolin Adolin knows Kaladin's entire bridge 4 group and new recruits on top of that all support him. So much so that they kept a guard stationed by the door every single day of Kaladin's incarceration. He had to have seen it on his way in to his jail cell. Further Adolin had full care and accommodations in line with his rank. He had communication with the outside world, and knew what was happening. He also knew Dalinar was fighting on Kaladin's behalf to King Elhokar. Kaladin knew he was not abandoned. Kaladin says so himself, and admits he is fighting against his depression. Adolin knew Kaladin. Kaladin saved his life. Kaladin had a whole host of people that remember him and listen to him. In fact that was one of the big moments before Kaladin was hung upside down in front of a storm. Bridge 4 said they would remember Kaladin. Even if he did die in the storm. Even if every one of them died on a bridge run. They would remember what Kaladin had did for them, and pass it on. I will take it even further that "Stormblessed" is a legend across the camps. This is in no way shape or form meant to diminish Adolin's accomplishments. It was good and right that he stood up for his friend. That he took a stand against Elhokar. I could even see it as perhaps a skybreaker oath or willshaper depending on how you understand their oaths. That "I will not stand by while injustice exists". But that honestly is just not edgedancer oath material for me. I do not see Adolin swearing to remember those that are forgotten, or listening to those that are ignored while he was in that jail cell.
  2. Not to nitpick, but gawx was unconscious/dying when lift swore her oath. So how did his point of view apply in feeling remembered when he was not even cognizant?
  3. I am confused, you just said regarding our mistborn friend, that that doesn't count as dead. edit: also, again confused, but if he ascended, would he not still have an arc? Considering he would have a part in book five that isn't a flashback?
  4. The flashbacks of Dalinar was what was going to switch depending on the book. Brandon made book three Dalinar's because the flashbacks he had planned he felt supported the story more in book three than book five. But the over all plot remained the same. Brandon has been on record that we will see more Dalinar in book five than in book four. If the flash backs in book five are Szeth's, and not Dalinar's, then I am not sure how we could see more Dalinar in book five if he is dies in book four. So I really do not see Dalinar dying. Honestly I don't see Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Jasnah, or Renarin dying in the first half of the stormlight archive. But to each their own.
  5. So bunch of things to reply to, but I will reinforce one more time, never said Adolin could not become an egedancer. Nor did I ever say he lacks the personality. The ideals for lightweavers are honesty and creativity. So Shallan attracting Pattern via her artistic inclination would be in line with the ideals of a lightweaver. Adolin would have known that a bridge 4 member was guarding the door everyday of Kaladin's duration behind bars. So Adolin would have known Kaladin was not being forgotten by his men. Which is the point I was trying to make. I never said Adolin couldn't be an edgedancer nor did I say he lacks the personality. All I said was I do not believe that situation applies to either oath to speak in regards to him having "already lived the oaths". Further, to me, whether or not Adolin has lived the oaths is immaterial as we know for a fact from WoB that re-swearing the oaths if you are not the original knight bonded to the spren will not restore it. Something "extra" has to be done. Which is why I have my theory about Dalinar and his connection powers (but I will not digress into my theory). so TLDR: Adolin could totally become an edgedancer and could totally have a personality of one. I just do not see that example with Kaladin as being a moment where he would have sworn an oath had Maya been a living spren. Hope that clarifies things.
  6. I wasn't saying there was evidence. Just like there is absolutely no evidence that there is a baby or there has to be one. I just threw out a possibility like everyone else. And I am not worried whether they are infertile or not. Just it could be. There may never be a child and that is just as likely as any other possibility posted on this thread.
  7. so again, just want to stress i am not saying that adolin couldn't be an edgedancer. My point was that the moment with kaladin is not necessarily indicative of the oath. Kaladin has not been ignored nor forgotten. No where in lifts oaths or anything we have seen with edgedancers has stated you have to be forgotten or ignored by an authority figure. Gawx was ignored by other thieves. Nale was not listened to period. Lift remembered gawx and went back for him when no one else would. Lift listened to an enemy that was ready to kill her and understand him despite it. Kaladin was remembered by the bridgemen, dalinar and adolin, so adolin is not unique in this. Kaladin was not forgotten by the bridgemen, Dalinar and adolin. The bridgemen stood guard when they didnt have to that they didnt forget kaladin so much. Kaladin knew he wasnt forgotten or ignored. He says as much. Its that he is fighting his depression. So TLDR, no where that i can recall does it require there to be an authority figure to remember or listen to be valid for the oath. If thats the case then dalinar should be edgedancer material as well. Again not saying adolin cannot be an edgedancer. I just dont see that example as particularly note worthy in regards to the oaths. Words of Radiance page 777 In order to keep the darkness at bay, he had begun planning. What would he do when he got out? When he got out. He had to tell himself that forcibly. It wasn’t that he didn’t trust Dalinar. His mind, though . . . his mind betrayed him, and whispered things that were not true. Words of Radiance page 783 “What did you say, Rock?” Kaladin said. “You cooked a stew for each day I was locked in prison?” “No,” Teft said, scratching his beard. “The storming Horneater has been cooking a single pot, letting it simmer for weeks now. He won’t let us try it, and insists on getting up at night and tending it.” “Is celebratory stew,” Rock said, folding his arms. “Must simmer long time.” “Well, let’s get to it, then,” Kaladin said. “I could certainly use something better than prison food.” The men cheered, piling off toward their barrack. As they moved, Kaladin grabbed Teft by the arm. “How did the men take it?” he asked. “My imprisonment?” “There was talk of breaking you out,” Teft admitted softly. “I beat some sense into them. Ain’t no good soldier who hasn’t spent a day or two locked up. It’s part of the job. They didn’t demote you, so they just wanted to slap your wrist a little. The men saw the truth of it.” Kaladin nodded. Teft glanced at the others. “There’s quite a lot of anger among them about this Amaram fellow. And a lot of interest. Anything about your past gets them talking, you know.” “Lead them back to the barrack,” Kaladin said. “I’ll join you in a moment.” “Don’t take too long,” Teft said. “The lads have been guarding this doorway for three weeks now. You owe them their celebration.”
  8. What does a marriage's duration have to do with whether or not someone could be infertile?
  9. Or maybe shallan and or adolin just can't have kids. Either one of them could have a condition or could have had something have happened to them that means they cannot get pregnant at all. And since stormlight brings you back to your last "status", if the damage took place for shallan when she was young, no amount of stormlight could change that. Or if it was adolin, it wouldnt matter how healthy or fertile shallan was with or without stormlight.
  10. So first and foremost, not saying adolin couldn't be an edgedancer but I don't think using kaladin in jail is entirely accurate. Remembering those that have been forgotten regarding Gawx was not only "people in authority ". His own allies or people ditched him too. Everyone out for themselves. Which is why lift not forgetting him was important. She really was the only one that remembered him. Kaladin on the other hand was certainly not forgotten by the bridgemen. He had to practically order them not to try to break him out or rebel. Dalinar stood up to elhokar for kaladin and visited regularly. So again, does not sound like he was forgotten. That also extends to being ignored. Nale was certainly not being ignored by anyone in authority. He had a personal fear that was not being heard and lift heard it. Again with kaladin, bridge four heard him. Dalinar heard him. Syl even heard him. They just didnt agree with his associated actions or conclusions. Which lift did the same. She didnt agree with nale about the voidbringers not having returned. But she listened and understood him. So i don't feel kaladin was ignored. (For reference, where dalinar definitely did listen) Words of Radiance page 749 “You have something to say?” “You don’t want to know what I think, sir.” “Perhaps I don’t. I probably need to hear it anyway.” Words of Radiance page 750 “I gave you a position no darkeyes has ever held in this army. I let you into conferences with the king, and I listened when you spoke. Do not make me regret those decisions, soldier.” “You don’t already?” Kaladin asked. “I’ve come close,” Dalinar said. “I understand, though. If you truly believe what you told me about Amaram . . . well, if I’d been in your place, I’d have been hard pressed not to do the same thing you did. But storm it, man, you’re still a darkeyes.” “It shouldn’t matter.” “Maybe it shouldn’t, but it does. You want to change that? Well, you’re not going to do it by screaming like a lunatic and challenging men like Amaram to duels. You’ll do it by distinguishing yourself in the position I gave you. Be the kind of man that others admire, whether they be lighteyed or dark. Convince Elhokar that a darkeyes can lead. That will change the world.” Now compare that to Lift Arcanum Unbound page 663 “I will listen,” Lift shouted, “to those who have been ignored!” “What?” Darkness demanded. “I heard what you said, Darkness! You were trying to prevent the Desolation. Look behind you! Deny what you’re seeing!” Lightning broke the air and howls rose in the city. Across the farmlands, the ruby glare revealed a huddled clump of people. A sorry, sad group. The poor parshmen who had been evicted. The red lightning seemed to linger with them. Their eyes were glowing. “No,” Nale said. The storm appeared to withdraw, briefly, around his words. “An … isolated event. Parshmen who had … who had survived with their forms…” “You’ve failed,” Lift shouted. “It’s come.”
  11. I guess I am confused again, because I am not sure how that is not how coalitions, and governments work. You have multiple groups of individuals with disparate goals, and beliefs. You will never "solve" anything. The point is to work with each other, negotiate, compromise, and work towards common goals. If anything was ever "solved", there wouldn't be conflict on the planet at all. Rulerships change hands, technology advances, public support swings various ways. One group had an issue regarding the oathgaths, another individual said well what about their information network, while another spoke of greed. Navani negotiated and worked within the coalition and system. Everyone got what they want and no one got what they want. That's how that works. Allies are under no obligation to release their state secrets carte blanch. In fact that is literally stated in the book. Oathbringer Page 995 "I suspect that each monarch in this room" Jasnah said "Would prefer to know that state secrets are allowed to remain their own. This is an alliance, not a wedding" Queen Fen nodded at that Jasnah made it very clear. This is an alliance, not a free for all. Each nation still holds its autonomy.
  12. Im confused why you bring up what literally already happened and was handled? Oathbringer page 901. Its a bit lengthy but if you would like me to post it in its entirety for reference I would be happy to.
  13. Personally I really don't think Yelig-nar grants any increased capability with abilities. He just grants access. I can go over it again later, but I checked briefly and all Amaram really did was: 1. Suspend himself briefly in the air twice 2. turn the ground into liquid 3. Ignite the air briefly 4. Slide forward in a straight line briefly. That does not sound overly proficient to me. He used those surges briefly and at their most base. He did not fly with gravitation, he floated in place. He did not shape the ground (like how the stoneware created steps), he just made the ground liquid for Kal to sink into. He did not turn the ground to flame and blow up the area. All he did was ignite it for a bit. Lift can use abrasion on portions of her body, she just isn't proficient enough to change direction, and execute finer maneuvers. She was able to engulf herself completely in abrasion enough that it felt like the wind and even light slid off of her. It was after a few moments that she then accidentally tripped and went sprawling. Amaram did what I equate to putting your left foot on a skate board, pushing off with the right, and coasting for a few feet, and then stopping with your other foot. Lift has accomplished far more than that on her knees and even feet.
  14. Not to prolong this portion and digress, but there is a reason for this. It is how long it takes for the "self" to "depart" to the "beyond" (all the quotes is because we don't know exactly specifically what any of that is and Brandon intends to keep it that way). The more invested that self is, the longer it hangs out in the cognitive realm before "going away". Wax was invested enough to have a nice convo with Harmony before Marasi got him the Bands. Szeth presumably had a shorter window since he did not have any innate investiture (anymore than anyone else gets that is) and got his abilities from the honor blade. Which is why Nale had to get to him right after he died, and even then it was a close call, because Szeth doesn't fully "stick" to his body, hence the after image effect. Nale nearly missed the window. Speaking of Nale, as per him we know how it would work. He says with Stump, since she is new, he could run her through with the shard blade, and she would die. With Lift, because she had advanced in oaths, he would need to keep the shard blade in for an extended period of time to make sure. Presumably it is for the reason I mentioned above, which is to make sure she ran out of all her stormlight preventing healing, and her "self" well and truly "left the building.
  15. Have we seen another shardbearer in shadesmar come under attack with the dead spren near by to compare? We do know that dead spren are drawn to where their shardblade is on the other side. We see Dalinar feel an urging from Oathbringer in Way of Kings before Adolin ever mentally voiced feeling anything from Maya. We see Dalinar get recognized and remembered by Oathbringer before Adolin experiences the same. To be clear I am not attributing Maya's awakening purely to the perpendicularity. Also I have a whole lot more of what I feel is evidence to back up my theory. I am not sure if me posting that here would be a digression or not though.