Maffu17

I missed it, never expected a UK visit so soon after seeing him for Shadows of Self. Why didn't I check for this!!

My mistake the actual quote comes from later in the book. The coach driver bit.

I really enjoyed the visual evocation in that scene, the description of red gloves really brought the scene to life for me. I haven't finished SoS yet so can't theorise as to the importance of the hint.

I went to pieces, sorry folks! He said initiation was deliberately vague and didn't define it, I was too flustered to probe deeper. However he did clarify that Splinters don't have to be sentient to be Splinters. He put "Hands all red" in my copy of Shadows of Self which, crazily, is exactly the part of the audiobook I was listening to on my drive to Leeds!! (He's a witch!)

Almost to the front of the queue EeeeeEek!!

I'm heading to meet Brandon later and I'm nervous but excited. Due to a lifelong panic disorder and social phobia I've never had chance to do anything like this before. Brandon will be the first famous person I've ever seen in the flesh let alone spoken to! Anyway my point is I'm so focused on my anxiety that I haven't had chance to think of any decent questions to ask him, or what personalisation I'd like in my book. So I thought I'd come here and get advice and suggestions, although granted it is a bit last-minute. Hope someone can help give me direction Will anyone from here be at Leeds later? What do I do / say!?

Could the Honorblades act likes Shards and gradually transform the personality of the user to match the divine attributes of the order who's power they are using. So that whomever took a blade would eventually become the kind of person who would uphold the Oathpact. It could explain why the Stone Shamans chose to give Szeth the blade of protecting/leading knowing that when humans got hold of his Oathstone he would be used for their opposites and cause him the most psychological trauma.

Happiest fence post in the world!

I was hoping to refine theory this after another readthrough or two but i'll submit it as is and let the lord of chaos rule. Ever noticed how the Unmade and Listener Forms seem to slot into the Ars Arcanum? AA 4 : Edgedancers // Divine Attributes: Loving, Healing Listener Form: Mate Form 5th Stanza Mateform meek, for love to share, Given to life, it brings us joy. To find this form, one must care. True empathy one must employ Unmade: Nergaoul Responsible for the Thrill, which manifests as hatred and a lust for violence. Being opposites of Loving and Healing. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AA 6: Lightweavers // Divine Attributes: Creative, Honest Listener Form: Art Form 90th Stanza Artform applied for beauty and hue. One yearns for the songs it creates. Most misunderstood by the artist it’s true, Come the spren to foundation’s fates Unmade: Moelach Responsible for the Death-Rattles, destructive in the sense that death is their price, and I believe as they are sent by an Unmade they are going to ultimately be misleading and untrustworthy, making everything Taravangian is working towards flawed because he used them as a base for his plans. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AA 7: Elsecallers // Divine Attributes: Wise, Careful Listener Form: Nimble Form Nimbleform has a delicate touch. Gave the gods this form to many, Tho’ once defied, by the gods they were crushed. This form craves precision and plenty Unmade: Re-Shephir Responsible for the Midnight Essence monsters in Dalinar's visions. Described as being inky which links to Jasnah's spren Ivory (Oil being the Elsecaller body focus in the AA). Also note their fighting style, which I would describe here with a biased opinion as stupid and reckless, given that they didn't show particular aptitude and fought to the death despite clearly being outmatched. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We don't know much the Unmade so I feel like i'm crowbarring things in to suit, but there's certainly interesting arguments to be made. And if all the Unmade personify the antonyms of divine attributes we can keep an eye out for things which exemplify their opposites, such as cowardice, decay, selfishness, ignorance, disobedience, incompetence, deserting and the rest. As for the Listener Forms there are so many comparisons I begin to think there are 2 Forms for each order, one good and one odious. e.g. ScholarForm = Evil version of NimbleForm Scholarform shown for patience and thought. Beware its ambitions innate. Though study and diligence bring the reward Loss of innocence may be one’s fate So the Parshendi all thought Venli was in Nimbleform utilising a spren, but she was actually in Scholarform using a voidspren, and establishing an opening for the rest of the voidspren to follow.

How did this only have 3 upvotes, you're amazing FW. As was the following post regarding your book ^^ I would have loud screeched too. At first I scan read, not really understanding the post and thought the middle paragraph was the Ketek, and then it unfolded in both directions at once, loved it!

Thanks RShara, that post is new to me, I kept away from the boards until i'd read WoR a couple of times. Seems I missed out on some interesting stuff. I don't have time at the moment for more rereads, so I need your brains. Can anyone remember off the top of their heads if we have any details of Alethi architecture? The mosaic of Stormseat seems to imply that roofs sloped upwards from east to west, this also seems the case in the warcamps, at least on the barracks Kaladin was chained to, should I make all Kholinar's buildings similarly sloped? Is it mentioned somewhere that they never build very tall buildings, a reference Dalinar made about Elhokar's palace being the tallest building in the warcamps, or when he met Noadon maybe? Are there other buildings of note in Kholinar? I've made areas in different brickwork intending to have a more wealthy area, an embassy compound, stables, a tall tower attached to a banking building so they can infuse spheres. I have a lot of space to fill and don't want to miss anything important. If anyone has ideas as to what to include i'm all ears. The windblades are described as fins, but what kind of fins, a tail fin? Propeller Fin? Jaws' dorsal fin? Also the coppermind says Kholinar was built around the windblades, shouldn't it be inside the windblades?

Decided to go with the central location. To anyone who's interested i've took a couple of images of my progress so far. One is the view from far above of my Kholinar, the other a view of the main road leading to the central hill which will eventually have the Palace and Temple on it.

I don't doubt there is a reason behind the glyph shapes. Other than the fact they were made using cymatics with surges on a huge scale. However, the receiving plates placed around Urithiru are all circular so I think we have to assume the sending plates are too. The thread I linked explains the similarity between the room Shallan found under the plateau and thr room in the temple in Kholinar which itself is on round flat-topped hill. Just not sure which of the structures on the map they are referencing. And if it is central, why was the sending plate at Stormseat off-centre.

We have some good information about the Oathgate in Kholinar ie http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7835-the-oathgates-spoilers/?hl=oathgate My question is - where is this most likely to be on the map? I'm thinking it's more likely to be central, but the space is smaller. Also, if the Circle of Memory is part of the Royal Temple, would the Palace be built on top of the that? So the Temple is essentially inside hill, and the Palace atop the hill. I'm trying to Minecraft it, this is the main feature of Kholinar and don't want to get it wrong.

I'm intrigued by the collection of wooden swords, that could be easily soulcast into looking like Shardblades. he still has them, interesting.

Hey I knocked this up in Minecraft https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYUbBUzWHHg. I can totally agree with the scale issues, mine is without balconies and only half the height it should be, and 1/4 of it is still underground. These pictures are still nice though, have you done any other stormlighty sketching?

I'm afraid not, not yet, at least. It's only got 50 floors too. I need to shave off the stormward side because I think its supposed to be flat. Plenty of work still to be done. I've never used MC edit, I used Single player commands and after some maths did a base cylinder with 53 radius and 4 height, and reduced radius by 1 with each new floor, 50 times. I really want to do an accurate Roshar, but deforesting and deanimaling would take a lot of time. I'll check out MC edit and see if it can help, cheers. Hehe I'm glad you enjoyed it, I was giggling as it came to me while building oh no, just realised I better go add some spoilers, don't wanna ruin the plot twist about Kaladin coming to enjoy Chouta, and the other minor stuff like Syl, I guess.I found a nice big desert to start a Shattered Plains. And blew some chasms into it with TNT before realising there's gonna be a very very big problem with scale. So I moved North and sought out a nice spot for Kholinar. Does anyone know where in Kholinar the circular teleport dais goes with the palace atop it? There's no obvious circles on the map, I'm thinking it might be dead-centre but in Stormseat it was off centre so I'm hesitant to begin.

Thanks lmj, darn thing removed my annotations, i've added them again in case you missed them when the chest is opened.

just a mornings work, thought i'd share sorry about the quality I thought i'd transcoded it in 1080 but obviously failed. oh and there are captions in youtube that you might not see from portable devices, unless you select desktop mode for youtube.

As a sidenote I just googled "Kholinar Map" and clicked images and the cymatic symbol in this post is the 2nd result next to the map of Kholinar ^^ because of this thread ^^

WoB Q: Is the Palanaeum named for Palah? A: Yes. In fact, it was named based on...it was Greek in our world...the Athenaeum? It was based off of that. It's a damnation shame the Palanaeum wasn't an inverted Pentagonal shape. As Palah is number 5 in the Ars Arcanum.

The WoB about Adonalsiums visit got me thinking, i didn't want to hijack this thread though so I posted a new one here.

Adonalsium arrived while Roshar was lush and green and invested the highstorms, and presumably a shardpool. Eventually the local fauna evolved concepts of thought (primitive Listeners) and the Investiture (Stormlight) began to manifest as Spren (no Stormlight in Shinovar = no Spren). The Listeners and Spren developed with each other, the Spren becoming their gods and the forms were discovered. The Shin couldn't have evolved within Shinovar it seems likely they arrived by Shardpool and found their way there, probably with the intervention of the Listeners, it could be they were seen as intruders and exiled into a godless land for which the Listeners had no use. Once settled Stone Shamanism took control of their species essentially trapping them in Shinovar and they developed like any normal culture would without the intervention of Spren. It's possible the founding fathers of Shinovar created Stone Shamanism as a way of stopping the Shin from straying beyond their borders and thereby incurring possible destruction by the Listeners. All other human life arrived later, it seems the Shin never mixed so the new humans never settled in Shinovar and were forced to survive outside in the Highstorms. Judging by the diversity of humans such as Theylan eyebrows or the golden Iri hair, it's likely the humans came from a variety of worlds, one of which also brought the Ryshadium. The Spren began to favour humans(see Listener songs below), maybe the humans had a more developed and subtle mentality leading to more defined Spren which to them is essentially evolution. (Ever see a Listener exhibit schadenfreude?) Ultimately the Listeners turned away seeking more odious forms and this probably began all the trouble which eventuated the Oathpact. Listener Song of SprenEdit 9th Stanza The spren betrayed us, it’s often felt. Our minds are too close to their realm That gives us our forms, but more is then Demanded by the smartest spren, We can’t provide what the humans lend, Though broth are we, their meat is men. 40th Stanza The betrayal of spren has brought us here. They gave their Surges to human heirs, But not to those who know them most dear, before us. ’Tis no surprise we turned away Unto the gods we spent our days And to become their molding clay, they changed us. It's hard to stop theorising once you start isn't it, i'll leave it there because i've covered a lot of ground and there are already enough holes to hide a few dozen Chasmfiends. Hopefully with some criticism we can find some nuggets of truth. Butcher my ideas at your leisure

I like the idea Shaggai, it's reminiscent of what Sazed tries to do in Hero of Ages. This isn't a million miles away from analysing the Death-Rattles either. First thing is do we have a list of RAFOs anywhere so we can see what got answered in WoR?