wolveryne

Mr. Weeks has actually addressed this more than once. I could summarize, but he probably does a better job explaining himself.

56% Dustbringer 50% Skybreaker 47% Windrunner 39% Stoneward 24% Bondsmith 18% Elsecaller 12% Edgedancer 6% Willshaper 6% Lightweaver 0% Truthwatcher That was a fun quiz! I'm happy with the results, too.

This is the greatest post I've seen on this site! GO BLUE!

I agree completely. And the reason I think this is an option with Adolin and not for Amaram is because Amaram is sure that he did the right thing and doesn't particularly care about Dalinar, or the King's authority. Adolin, on the other hand, will submit to that authority. We know from the way he tried to hid his involvement that he feels at least a little guilty for it.

"There will be more than one Radiant per Order, so the need for Lift's originality isn't a convincing argument." I wasn't trying to say that it was particularly convincing, I was trying to use it as a secondary backup reasoning. I haven't seen it stated by Brandon that there will be more then one MAIN character in an Order. Why would he waste words having Adolin go through the same progression that Lift will be going through? A secondary background character that becomes more prominent, sure but not a main character already established. Turn it around, Why introduce Lift as the first Edgedancer if that's what Adolin is going to be? As far as we know she could turn food into stormlight as a willshaper or skybreaker, so why make her an ED if an already established Character is going to be one? Agan I don't see this as a huge indicator, but one that supports others. No Adolin doesn't show more bravery then others I completely agree.. My opinion is that he shows more OBEDIENCE then any other character does. Kaladin, Shallon, Lift, Jasnah, and even Dalinar aren't particularly obedient to those that have any kind of authority over them. Adolin is the only one shown to be obedient even when he doesn't want to be. He even obeyed Kaladin on the Tower. I don't think that's something others would have done. As for EDs being more "eloquent, refined, elegant, deadly warrior, not too demanding, focused on the small picture" you have pointed out that the most likely thing is often the one that doesn't happen. That is a discrioption from a in-world book hundreds of years old filled with stereo types. The bucking of such stereo types seems to be a theme of these books so I don't find Adolin fitting that description as very convincing. Also when has Adolin ever been focused on the small picture? By the end of WoR he is completely all in for Dalinar's vision of a grand and noble kingdom. That's certainly no small picture. It was this unerring believe in said vision that lead him to finally let himself off his chain and attack Sadeas. "If anyone is to revive his Blade (it's been mentioned in-world, we know it's possible, so it is very likely to happen). Occam's razor is Adolin will be the one who'd do it. It's too big an event for it to happen in some nobody's interlude or outside a PoV character. Adolin's special connection to his Blade has been foreshadowed for two books. Foreshadowing isn't the same as red herring - the former is subtle whereas the latter is much more straight forwarded." I agree that a Blade being revived is inevitable, That's what I believe has been foreshadowed. I believe that the straight forwardness of it being Adolin is the red herring. Adolin doing it is so in our face that I find it unlikely. I never thought that it would happen with a non-pov character or even in an interlude. When I suggested that it could maybe Rysn that does it, I was taking the possibility of her becoming a main character in the back 5 books; and the trend of her being given an exotic gift at the end of each of her interludes as possible foreshadowing of her being gifted a Blade at some point. Same as my Eshonai example, I was using them to show that there are other possibilities. Occam s razor is a good tool, but isn't always right and shouldn't become a crutch. "On a humorous note if you don't see Adolin as an ED, then he probably will be one since Dalinar was generally speculated for a Stoneward and no one guessed Renarin will end up with the learned and giving Truthwatchers before WoR." That can be turned around on you. You don't think it's likely he'll be a DB so it's likely to happen. I could be completely wrong but I don't remember that we knew that Bondsmith's and Truthwatchers even existed before the end of WoR, And if that's the case they seem bad examples. And in response to maxel: "We are assuming too much out of Lift. She had all but one POV, we do not know much about her, so I would refrain from stating what she would or would do. Besides, it goes back to the previous discussion, we cannot expect Adolin to behave exactly like Lift. Lift is a Level 2 Radiant. Adolin does not even have a working Nahel bond. Why should he be the equivalent of a Level 2 Radiant in order to befit a given order? We are talking pure potential here. Could Adolin become caring enough withhold the Edgedancers oaths? I think he can. Think Zorro <_<" She's the only living, breathing, awesome inducing ED that we have, and the fact the we have to do some mental gymnastics to get any way at all that she and Adolin share characteristics even a little is a chink your theory. (In my head anyway, but that's pretty dented already. ) Sure there is potential for him to grow in that direction, but there is just as much if not more potential for him to in the direction of the DBs. "But Adolin has a special connection to his Blade. Breaking the bond won't break this. The Blade wants to be with Adolin, so it will come a time where Adolin will try for his Blade. He summons it nearly unconsciously most of the time, especially when nervous, so I doubt he'll lose the habit this easily. Therefore, at some point in the story, Adolin will be in dire need of his Blade, even if it is not his anymore. Deep down, he'll be convince that she is his." You're putting a lot of unknown feeling into that Blade. We don't know for sure that it even hears Adoln when he talks to it. We just know that it's a possibility. It's a sound theory, but I don't find it any more or less likely then him losing his shards and him going on to show obedience and extreme bravery afterword. I've seen all of those arguments, and from others that true to point out his bravery. As I said I don;t think he's any more brave at this point them others are. What I haven't seen before is "Adolin as DB" presented from him being obedient before. That's what has always struck me about him so it bothered me that it seemed to never get mentioned. Well there were A LOT of people disappointed with the ending to Mistborn, so I don't think that's a major concern to him, As long as he feels he's written the story in they he felt it needed to be. A couple of things: I'm sorry for my dense brain not figuring out the super easy quoting system until the very end. And I'm also sorry for being to lazy to go back and fix it. I will do better in the future I hope I don't come across as a jerk at all, it's hard to tell in forums. I've really enjoyed this back and forth. You've made me think of things in ways I haven't before and that always a good thing.

Those are good points, but the thing that bothers me is that all actions have many and differing motivations. We're not in Adolin's head while he's confronting the officers mistreating the prostitute so we don't really know what his true motivations were. Does it matter what his motivation for obeying is? Does it matter what Kaladin's motivation is to protect? They both seek to do those things out of love, so they should both be Edgedancers? Adolin can love his father but still rebel against his radical ideas, but he doesn't. He obeys his father in all things. These aren't 2 dimensional characters that have 2 traits and nothing else. I see the Defining Traits of the Orders as what their motivations lead them to do. They're about the actual things they do not just the why. Adolin's love for his father and general unwillingness to harm the helpless motivates him to obey his superiors and be brave enough to do things that will have grave consequences. I can't believe that Sadeas would just let Adolin killing one of his officers over a prostitute go away quietly. His bravery isn't in the act of the fight itself but in knowing that there will be a consequence for it and facing it anyway. He is, in a way, obeying his own sense of morality. If he truly "loved" the prostitute why didn't he use his position to bring her to the Kholin warcamp and see that she received training in another profession? Instead he left her there for that to happen all over again. I don't think Lift would have just left that woman there to go through that again. How can Adolin revive his Blade if he no longer has it? Do you think the spren is following him around in the cognitive realm? It just seems to me that the push to go out of the way to find ways in which Adolin is loving:healing is solely for the purpose of him reviving that Blade. And that seems like an unlikely fit for him as a whole. I agree with your previously stated position that it's generally bad form to predict what order a character might become based on what we know about as the future flashback/main KR/main vp characters, but at the same time there are glaring holes in the known main viewpoint characters and the Orders they represent. Adolin becoming an Edgedancer would undermine Lift's character. It would strip her of all the original things that would make her interesting with the exception of her turning food into stormlight. Why would Brandon make an already main character fill the role of a character he has already said will play a major role in the back 5 books when an Order that is without any other even viable options is still waiting to be discovered? There are other ways to show how a dead Blade can be brought back, then by Adolin reviving his current Blade.

I don't think bravery is Adolin's defining trait either. Each of the Radiant characters have several traits that are "the traits" of other orders. Kaladin would be a terrible protector if he wasn't also brave. Shallon would never do anything that would need her to use illusions if she wasn't trying to protect her family. I believe that Adolin's choice to care for those around him is in obedience to the things Dalinar has been trying to teach him for the past 6 years. Thats what I think his definitive trait is, obedience. In regards to the prostitute situation, the point is that Adolin was in a hostile warcamp ready to fight a group of men. Everyone else was running away, it wasn't brave of him to stay? He didn't do it in obedience of the codes (which at this point he doesn't even agree with)? He was sticking up for what Dalinar has been telling him is the way things should be, which is the opposite of what almost every member of Alethi society thinks. It would take a large amount of bravery for him to stand there protecting a prostitute to the point of being willing to kill those men, in Sadeas' warcamp, just because they were mistreating her. I said anyone SHOULD have done what Adolin did, but he was the only one brave enough to do it. Let's remember that the Alethi society at this point would tell him that it's none of his business. I never said he wasn't kind and caring, I just don't agree that those are what drive him to do what he does. These characters are realistic, they have many different personality traits that define who they are. I think the argument made for him to be an ED doesn't fit with what we know of Adolin as well as he would fit the DB. It's an attribute to Brandon's great writing that we can have this debate at this time. He could be either one, I just see the DB as the most likely and as the most satisfactory way for the story to go. At this point we're all arguing for the direction that we want the story too go, thats all we can argue for, at this point.

I’m going to finally stick my shy and scared neck out here and make my first long/rambly post. I feel that the overwhelming opinion (in this thread at least) of Adolin as Edgedancer needs some more push back. I think that if Adolin is going to be a Radiant (which I see as 90% likely) the most viable Order is as a Dustbringer. I believe this because since we first meet Adoin the attributes that stood out the most from him were bravery and obedience. His obedience to his father about following the codes even when he obviously disagrees about it has always struck me as important. he was also obedient to his agreement with Rellis, even when he could have argued that he was tricked into it. I think one of the Dustbringer Oaths will be along the lines of “I will obey my orders, even if I don’t like them.” His bravery should never be questioned, though I think the DB bravery is more of an “extreme” bravery. More like fighting 4 shardbearers at once then general being a soldier with Shards bravery. I think both of those things will be expounded on by the way he reacts to his punishment for killing Sadeas. I have 3 major problems with him becoming an ED. First- I cannot see any satisfactory way for him to come out of his current predicament without losing his Shards. I seem to remember it being stated that the most likely punishment for a Brightlord killing a Highprince is banishment, not execution. I believe the most probable consequence for Adolin is the stripping of his Shards and demotion to 5/6th dahn. Simply being demoted yet allowed to keep is Shards, is something I have a hard time believing the other Highprinces will accept. It will be incredibly hard for him to revive his current Blade if he no longer has it. Second- Though I agree that Adolin talking to his Blade is foreshadowing a future revival at some point; I think it a red herring for it to be Adolin who does the reviving, or at least him reviving that particular blade. It seems like the easy way out to me. Clumsy in it’s smoothness, maybe? Going with my theory of him being stripped of Shards and demoted, he could earn a different Blade with significant skill and bravery in a role of “Low-ranked Lighteyed officer” and that Blade being a Dustbringers Spren, and he revives that one. I think it more likely that either Eshonai will revive her Blade, and her being more in the cognitive realm will some how be the “something extra” needed; or Rysn being given a Blade as a gift at the end of her SA3 interlude, that she goes on to talk to and revive. A point has been made about how well she treats the plant given to her at the end of her WoK interlude, that talking to a Shardblade doesn’t seem like that much of a stretch for her. But now I’ve gone off a rabbit trail… Thirdly- The arguments made for him being “Loving:healing” seem forced. Like secondary traits forced to the forefront to fit the theory that he revives his current Blade. Does he love his family? Yes he loves them very much. Does he love them more the Shallon loves her brothers, or her scholarship? Or more then Kaladin loved Tien, then Bridge 4? I don’t think so. I think its just evidence of him being a well rounded and realistic character. The instance of the prostitute in the street is a circumstance that anyone in Adolin’s position should have stepped into. He didn’t love her, or even love all prostitutes that have ever been mistreated, he has simply been taught that every life is meaningful and that certain things are wrong. Killing/harming/bullinging an unarmed helpless person is one of them. He was there and had the ability to something about it, so he did. From a different perspective, he was protecting her just as much as Kaladin protected Elhoker. That one act doesn’t make him a good windrunner candidate, neither do I think it makes him a good ED candidate. As for his mourning the soldiers lost in battle, again it’s something any good commander would do. He’s learning the balance, that Dalinar himself is still learning, between caring for each life under his responsibility while keeping the bigger picture in mind. Adolin at this point has less responsibility and more time to think of those lost. I also don’t think that the soldiers could be counted as “those forgotten”. Being a soldier is considered the most holy vocation in vorinism, so I don’t see the masses as forgetting their sacrifice as a whole, or for them to be individually forgotten by their families. Gawx on the other hand was a petty thief that no one in authority would care about and whom his family considered expendable once he got caught. Again, I don’t see those instances of Adolin being loving:healing as his dominating personality traits. Secondary ones for sure, but not to the point that it would be enough to revive a dead ED Spren. I guess what I’m trying to say here is that becoming an ED would seem out of character for the Adolin that has been presented to us so far. I believe there is a very good reason that a majority of people (at least that I have seen and talked to) immediately pegged him as the most likely DB. Any thought of him being any other Order, especially ED, needs heavy convincing whereas him as a DB just seems to fit. I’m sorry that was so long, and that it probably doesn’t make much sense, but I felt like I needed to say it.

I think Kaladin's next oath will be something like "I will lead those who are lost." Or "I will lead those who need it." He struggles with doing anything for those he doesn't like, or who he doesn't see as his. I can see him struggling to lead Rashon, or the towns people that were hostile to his family.

On his blog post the other day he called it Stones Unhallowed, for what its worth.

Well, we don't know what the limit is, and its doubtful that a spren wanting to imitate a sword, would bond with someone with one already.

We know that the spren created the bond to imitate the Honorblades, and their bond to the Heralds. So the Heralds were around doing their thing before the nahel bond existed. So they did attract spren by acting according to their divine attributes, and the spren they attracted decided to find people that they could bond with. As to why they didn't or couldn't form a bond directly with the Herald, we simple don't have enough information to make an adequate guess.

Maybe its the actual, living bond and living according to the divine attributes that turns the eyes to the color of the Order. If that was true, then the "dead" blades would only change the current eyes to a lighter version or, in the case of a lighteyes, not at all. The eye changing of darkeyes is only rumor because it happens so rarely. Maybe Kaladin is the only "current" Radiant that is living close enough to both his Orders divine attributes for his eyes to change.

He wasn't tied to a rope and dangling off a roof for one. Secondly, as he was flying around windspren were attracted to him, and seemed to buffer him from the storm. At least that's how I envisioned it happening. Lastly, its at least a generally accept ted theory that the more oaths a Radiant speaks, the higher Stormlight efficiency they gain. So he might not have had more intake, but he was more efficient with it.

I haven't read Liar so I don't know what information we have from it. Having said that, is it possible that he's a pre-shattering Yolish version of a Returned? Maybe that's how he got his start as a cosemere aware super player, and partly why he's so hard to kill.