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  1. 21 points
    Brother Kabsal: "Now, not that I doubt your word, Brightness, but I'm rather intrigued how Dandos Heraldin could have trained you in arts, as—last I checked—he's suffering a rather terminal and perpetual ailment. Namely, that of being dead. For three hundred years." Shallan: "My father had a book of his instruction."
  2. 20 points
    For my 2000th post, I am going to post my first memes. They are some of my favorite quotes from The Stormlight Archive in much different situations. Enjoy! (Spoilers ahead!)
  3. 19 points
    I don't really know where to put this, its not a meme, but it's about me..me. but you're my community so I must share Anyway I present to you Mr and Mrs Extesian
  4. 18 points
    Why I'm somewhat afraid of potential Cosmere movies: Me: *Wishes for Stormlight Archive movie* Disney: *Grants my wish and starts working on Stormlight Archive movie* Me: *Screams of happiness* Disney: This is Syl. Me: *Cries myself to sleep* Disney: Oh and this is stick. Me: *Falls into a permanent state of depression*
  5. 17 points
    Looking at Ahu’s ramblings led me to connect the Unmade to the Heralds breaking as others have and while I was writing this it clicked that the Everstorm could be 10th Unmade created from the 10th Herald breaking. OR should I say E-Vers-Torm?!?! I hid the passage above for length. It is Jezrien rambling to Dalinar in the flashback. What’s he talking about? I know the very end he is referencing the Fused torturing him. But the beginning is about the Unmade and the middle fits the Unmade since they are ancient spren, better than the Fused who are cognitive shadows of Singers. “We let them in” They let the Fused OUT, doesn’t seem right. “We attracted them” How many times have we heard ”attracting a spren” used in SA? ”Befriended them” eh, restating the last thing doesn’t tell us much. “You open yourself up to it and you pay the price” - open up to a bond like with a Spren? ”They ripped my brain out” This has to be the Fused. Is there more of a connection between the Unmade and the Heralds than previously thought? I know there is the theory that one was created when each of the nine Heralds broke their first time. I was skeptical of it, where is the 10th now that Taln broke? But Jezrien seems to be lumping them in with the start and cause of all the problems. What if the Unmade were previously the Dawnshards and were bonded to Heralds to help with the Oathpact? The breaking of the Heralds damaged these spren and allowed Odium to Unmake them. “We were made, then Unmade” Sja-Anat to Shallan CH. 84 The Unmade weren’t always as they are now and the change was a destructive one. People make oaths. The Heralds “bent” their Oaths according to the Stormfather OB ch. 38. One oath Unmade per Herald. “A champion could work well for you but it is uncertain. ... And without the Dawnshards” tWoK Ch. 75 Honor seems to imply the Dawnshards were helpful against Odium in the past, but won’t be available. “Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind all creatures mortal and voidish, he crawled up the steps made for Heralds ten strides tall apiece toward the grand temple above.” tWoK Ch . 36 A Dawnshard that was “known to” as in had already proven it can bind creatures including voidish. It proved this when it helped with binding the Fused for the Oathpact. “One Dawnshard is different from all the rest” -WoB https://wob.coppermind.net/events/226/#e4824 One is different cause it’s the one Odium wasn’t able to corrupt. He got 9 out of 10. “That matches the vision Dalinar saw, though some reports mention ten Unmade”.- OB Ch 77 There are 10 Dawnshards 9 of which have been Unmade leading to the 9 or 10 confusion. But if Taln broke shouldn’t there be a 10th now? Yes, it’s the Everstorm. Unmade we’ve seen are all corrupted / co-opted black or red investiture. The Everstorm clouds are black and it’s lightning is red. Its not spelled E-Vers-Torm like a proper Unmade, but that would give the game away. Possible that Everstorm is what it used to be called before Odium modded it. Which is why Tanavast and the Stormfather already knew its name before it came. Tanavast calls it that in the visions.
  6. 17 points
    Most of what you said was subjective so I can't disagree with that. However, saying he's a Mary Sue because he's good at fighting is kind of not how that works. Dude was born into wealth in one of the most warlike countries on Roshar, with a Plate and Blade waiting for him. His calling is Duelling and he takes it very seriously. Him being good at fighting makes sense because it really should be the only thing he was good at. And it is. He has basically no other skills beyond fighting. He didn't know how to handle Sadeas so he did the only thing he's good at, he killed him. Dislike him for being a jock, dislike him for how Shadolin played out, dislike him for being privileged and for his personality and such. Those are fine, they are your opinions. But he is not a Mary Sue. He's pretty much only good at fighting because he's been trained to do that for the majority of his life. He's naive, ignorant of others feelings and self doubting. He has flaws, not on the level of other characters but he is far from perfect at everything.
  7. 17 points
    You know you're a Sanderfan when you hear about a huge storm coming in and I was like "Highstorm", and then I asked what direction it was blowing in from (hoping it would be east). Nope. Turns out it's coming in from the west. My reaction as follows. "The wrong way... It's blowing the wrong way. They called it the Last Desolation, but they lied. The Everstorm comes!" Everybody else in the room:
  8. 16 points
    I have seen various character studies on various characters but none really on Jasnah by herself. I have also seen what I feel is misunderstandings regarding the character. So I decided to take every instance of Jasnah in all three books, in chronological order, in an effort to share with you all what I see in this character and perhaps show you all the humanity within her. I will go quote by quote showing how she is viewed at face value in a scene, and then I will provide context based on in book information and/or Words of Brandon. I hope by providing context to the scenes she is seen as emotionless as well as calling attention to the scenes where we do see Jasnah’s emotions and how many times we see them will demonstrate a deeper understanding of the character. This will allow people to hear my reading of her, but at the same time have the scenes referenced readily available for people to read and form their own thoughts. Some quotes will be trimmed at places due to descriptions of the surroundings (such as buildings, and etc) that have no content relevant to this thread. Where I skip will be denoted by “....”. I will spoil tag each quote for length and reading sanity. I am unsure if anyone will go through the effort of reading all of this all the way through, but if you do, I look forward to your thoughts. If you disagree, I also look forward to your thoughts though I ask you to read the scene, and reference the scene when explaining why you disagreed. I went through the trouble of including the scene for ease of access so I would appreciate if that extra work was employed in response. After typing all this up, going through all of Way of Kings and all of Words of Radiance, I have come to two conclusions. First, this took waaaaaay longer than I expected, and second, there are waaaaay more scenes of Jasnah than I thought lol. Because of this, I decided to post what I had so far (all of Way of Kings and all of Words of Radiance). If there is any interest in this, I will finish up with Oathbringer. If this however gets viewed and then is quickly lost among forum uncommented on, then ah well I did my best. So this is our first introduction to Jasnah. From the perspective of Shallan, who never met her, never saw her, and bases her impression on some of the books she read in the library and rumors about the princess of the strongest kingdom on the planet. To her, this Jasnah is the most powerful and intimidating woman in the world. Shallan thinks she is nothing before such a woman. That Jasnah is the only member of a faithful house that is a vocal heretic Now Shallan is having her world view of Jasnah supported. Jasnah is sister to the king. Of course she would stay where a king lives. However we find out later that the reason is she is researching the end of the world and doing all she can to stop it. Whereas public opinion assumes she is royalty and expects to go where royalty goes, the reality is she is staying there to pursue knowledge to save the world. Same could be said about Shallan chasing her. Jasnah is being dismissive and flippant towards Shallan by not waiting for her. The reality is Jasnah is deeply fearful of the impending end of the world, and cannot spare any time from pursuing her research. The outside view shows her to be a selfish and self important princess, the inside view shows her to be a altruistic and self sacrificing scientist trying to avert disaster. Again from Shallan’s perspective, Jasnah is beyond any “normal” human beings. She is a scholary juggernaut that is a vocal heretic. A heretic that could try to corrupt Shallan from her religion, the only thing that gave her solace during her dark days with her father. A later scene with Taravangian that I will cover will show that Jasnah actually does not seek to convert anyone to her “heretical ways”. The reality is people frequently confront and attempt to convert her. She just defends her own rationale. We begin this lengthy scene with Shallan’s overawed first impression of Jasnah. She expected a withered, ugly, old spinster because she is a “heretic well into her mid-thirties and still unmarried”. I think this commentary is to help us see the levels of opposition Jasnah has to deal with just to exist. She does not believe in the Vorin religion, and she (for whatever reason which there are many theories) chooses to be unmarried. Those two simple facts are enough to create an image of a crotchety, and bitter woman for Shallan. The revelation that Jasnah looks nothing of the sort is enough to stop Shallan in her tracks. She doesn’t fit the stereotype that only “unattractive women” remain single. The reality is she is quite attractive, and shows that her value is not only in her looks. She can be single and that be ok despite outside pressure pushing her to do otherwise. Shallan then expresses her concern that Jasnah will scold her for being late despite it being Jasnah’s continual travel that caused it. Shallan rationalizes this as “ah well, she is so high above me, people like that always expect irrational things from their inferiors. This point is later disproven, but also slightly validated later on. If we skip a head a bit Jasnah confirms she does not hold Shallan’s arrival against her at all. In fact she is impressed. Now admittedly Jasnah grills Shallan and has very high expectations, but again there is context to this. First, Jasnah has been repeatedly pursued by multiple wards. A good chunk of those wards either wanted to steal the soulcaster for the Ardentia, gain notoriety for having a wardship with a famed heretic thereby increasing their chance of marriage, or manipulate Jasnah into giving them connections into the Alethi royalty. These are all types of individuals Jasnah has no time for given the pressing nature and importance of her research. So all the paces she puts Shallan through are ultimately warranted. I also think it says something of Jasnah’s character that when an individual does accomplish something noteworthy, she gives that accomplish its due, like when Shallan reasons that Taravangian’s own people already determined the mass of the stone. Now going back a bit, Shallan overhears Jasnah speaking to Taravangian. We find out they are discussing Jasnah using her soulcaster to turn the boulder to smoke to free Taravangian’s granddaughter from a cave in. Jasnah cautions Taravangian that her helping him, and him providing her access to the Palananeum in exchange could raise the ire of the Vorin church. She knows Taravangian is a practicing Vorin. She also could easily provide the money necessary to have free use of the Palaneum without any bargain of helping the king being necessary. She is desperate to research the coming end of the world yet she warns the king of the possible fall out with the church so he won’t suffer on her account, and takes the time to save the kings granddaughter when she has no need to accomplish her goals. So while from the outside it could seem that Jasnah merely saved the granddaughter as an exchange of services to get what she wants that lies in the Palanaeum, the inside view shows she could have gotten it regardless without any concern for Taravangian nor saving his granddaughter, yet she does so anyway. In my opinion that is Jasnah lowkey helping others with no expectation of gratitude. Pretty clear and upfront. Jasnah Kholin has had to fight in order to exist as the woman she is in the time period and culture she grew up in. As result, and as Shallan is realizing, Jasnah respects determination, intelligence, and strength. Our first hint at Jasnah’s regular interactions with the Vorin Church. They either want to steal the soulcaster from her, or will use her as a trophy to say “hey! I converted the heretic!”. No respect for her beliefs. No understanding. Yet she is painted as the heretic that will corrupt good Vorin worshippers. This is shown again and elaborated on later in the book. Now we get to see the first mistake Jasnah makes in the books. Earlier Jasnah has made it clear that she had dismissed Shallan, yet Shallan persists and writes an argument for being taken on as a ward. Jasnah finds her still there and enraged tells her to get out. Despite this, minutes later a servant calls Shallan back. Was it to return Shallan’s money left in the goblet? No, though she does do that as well after. Was it because of the wonderful argument Shallan wrote? No again, yet that does come up after. It is because Jasnah, by herself, realized she had acted unfairly towards Shallan. A “typical” highlady would have just left things as is. Instead Jasnah has a servant search for Shallan, request she come back, and apologizes. The scene shows that Jasnah is exhausted from overworking herself researching (to prevent the end of the world as we later know). She is tired, frustrated and short tempered, but admits that is no excuse for her poor treatment of Shallan. It is then Shallan calls Jasnah’s attention to the argument she wrote. Jasnah then reads it and gives it the credit it is due. She respects well thought out reasoning, determination and tenacity. She gives Shallan the chance to petition again when she is ready. Something Shallan knows is a huge gesture, though given her situation it is not enough. It seems the biggest hallmark of Jasnah in Way of Kings is how hard she pushes herself researching the Desolations. This is again another comment on how she is researching nonstop well past exhaustion. She is terrified of what is coming (which is shown much later on as a very emotional scene). It is why she reacts to everyone as she does when we see her. She very much feels she is out of time and is trying to stop a storm by blowing hard. I think it is understandable that she would be testy around people. Yet despite all this, she sees in Shallan a kindred spirit. She knows Shallan’s family is falling apart, and that Shallan is seeking an alliance with her through wardship. That is why she rejected her so quickly. Because the Shallan she just met is like every other enterprising individual seeking to use Jasnah. But once Jasnah realizes there is a genuine love of learning within Shallan, she feels that it is worth nurturing and takes her on as a ward. This to me is a pretty clear sign of compassion. This is pretty open and shut. Dalinar trusts Jasnah. You know where you stand with her. Shallan is starting to bit by bit get to know a deeper Jasnah. One that is not matching up with what everyone assumes. This is our first, and one of the great examples (there are two to three more over the course of the three books) of how Jasnah talks with individuals with beliefs different than her own, and her views on her own “heresy”. We first start with her method of teaching which to Shallan’s surprise is very Socratic (though Socrates obviously is not a thing in their world). Jasnah believes in encouraging curiosity, and asking questions to gain greater knowledge and insight. It is hard to see, but I believe this is the starting signs of a bond Jasnah is building with Shallan, and shows Jasnah beginning to care and respect Shallan. This is not just a lesson of memorization. She is trying to see and appreciate Shallan for the person she is, and help her grow as a person. If there is one way to instigate Jasnah’s ire, it is crushing another person’s creativity and ingenuity with personal ignorance. She calls out Shallan’s tutors as being idiots for doing exactly that. As per Shallan’s own thoughts, Jasnah genuinely loves learning and wants others to do so as well. Taravangian then arrives to eat with them. It is Taravangian, not Jasnah that brings up her beliefs. Shallan comments to herself how often Jasnah will not bring up her beliefs at all, and when asked typically changes the subject. This was only different because she felt Taravangian’s inquiry was genuine and not malicious or seeking to convert her. Every assertion Jasnah made was in response to an argument Taravangian made. At no point did she belittle his views. At no point did she deride him for believing as he wished. In fact it was Taravangian that stated “then you’ve removed all purpose for the Almighty’s existence!”, to which Jasnah simply responds “indeed”. Jasnah does not believe in the need of a deity. That does not mean she has any problem with anyone else believing such, and she states exactly that in this scene. “My intention is not to convert Your Majesty. I am content keeping my beliefs to myself, something most of my colleagues in the devotaries have difficulty doing”. She even pays the devoteries the respect of referring to them as her colleagues. Jasnah then inquires what Shallan was going to say to the king. Shallan admits it would have been derogatory, to which Jasnah in a calm and understanding manner instructs Shallan to never speak of Taravangian in that manner. That he is “earnest, sincere, concerned” and reminds her of Dalinar. She respects him, and wishes there were more men like him. She misses the ancient days where a man who brought peace to his kingdom was considered with great worth. This shows what kind of person she holds in high esteem. This is rather different than the cold, heartless killer an outside view of the other scenes lead us to believe. This Jasnah desires peace, and genuinely respects and is fond of individuals who feel the same. Again, the outside view Shallan started with of Jasnah is beginning to conflict with the Jasnah she is truly getting to know. This is the second scene that shows how Jasnah deals with religion, vs how religion deals with her. Despite Shallan defending Jasnah, and showing that Jasnah is “not vocal unless provoked” Kabsal jumps to the conclusion that she must be ashamed then. This is also the second time we see people view Jasnah’s beliefs as “infectious”. As it disagreeing with the church is tantamount to being a disease. Makes you wonder what the church did to those Jasnah “corrupted”. Kabsal admits that the devoteries tend to force people to adopt certain glories and callings, while pushing them away from others. Women are urged to stay away from theology. Shallan then catches him and makes him admit that the reason he is pursuing Jasnah so much is for the distinction of being the one to convert her. He is not trying to understand her. Not trying to see her as a person. She is something to conquer. She is a trophy to be attained. When Jasnah arrives she shows she has no problem with Shallan speaking to whomsoever she wishes, even if the person is diametrically opposed to her. She just cautions Shallan because she is concerned he is using Shallan to get at her. Considering as we have learned how often this has been done to Jasnah in the past (and we even learn it is true of Kabsal), such a response makes sense. Jasnah is angry. Yet again is another person coming to belittle her beliefs and get her to “see the light”. Whereas with Taravangian Jasnah was respectful and considerate, with Kabsal she is hostile and picks him a part. This shows Jasnah does treat others in accordance with the way she is treated, and in Kabsal’s case she was right. Another example of Jasnah making a mistake, admitting it, and seeking to do better. She admits she unfairly judged Shallan. She encourages Shallan, and explains her process. She understands Shallan and is considerate of her as an individual. Another instance of proof of how Jasnah handles religion. She does not force Shallan to see things her way. She is not trying to corrupt Shallan to athiesm. Shallan is more than welcome to be as pious as she wishes around Jasnah. The only thing Jasnah requires, is questioning. Question yourself, question your superiors, question your world and always learn. We have now reached one of the big scenes for a lot of people regarding Jasnah. As the point of this post is to get to know Jasnah “the person”, I will not be commenting on the morality of what happened. I will focus on what specifically happened, and the why she did what she did. Having said that, lets begin. Jasnah leads Shallan on foot to a less reputable location in Kharbranth. During their walking, Jasnah takes off the glove covering her soulcaster to see better by. Shallan notices men watching them. Jasnah goes on a philosophical lecture on the nature of what it means to question versus accepting what one is told at face value. Youth versus experience. Jasnah then explains that the street they walk currently has on three separate occasions over the course of two months had theatergoers murdered. All three cases led to death, not “mere” robbery. Taravangian, the king himself has attempted to get the city watch in order to protect the street but with no success. The captain is connected to an influential light eyes. There is suspected bribery, but the fact of the matter is the street results in deaths, and there is no sign that the situation will change anytime soon if at all. So we have a clear statement that all attempts to reform the city guard, fix up the street, and or apprehend the murders have led to naught. That is the scenario Jasnah and Shallan walk into. Shallan notices dark shapes at the entrance of the alley where they came in, and at the other end. Jasnah and Shallan are now boxed in, with no escape in an alley know for murders. The individuals reveal themselves to be holding swords and knives. More support of their lethal intent. Finally by Shallan’s own thoughts, these men were out for their blood. These are men that clearly have lived each day knowing the noose is the only end they will see. Jasnah remains standing, and waits for the first guy to approach her. He swings his knife at her initiating the attack. Jasnah lifts her hand, touches him and changes him to fire. The other three are close enough that in their panic they trip over each other, and Jasnah (not needing to move other than to turn) reaches out and touches another man changing him to quartz. The last two men flee in opposite directions. Jasnah raises her hand and twin bolts of lightning shoot out and hit them at the same time turning them to smoke. Jasnah remains looking calm. They call a palanquin and ride it heading back to Jasnah’s rooms. During the ride they discuss what just happened. Again they discuss the ethics of it, but at the core here are some definiable pieces of information. The men were planning to beat, rob, and kill both Jasnah and Shallan. Jasnah and Shallan walked through an alley displaying wealth knowing the alley’s reputation for murder. The men are now dead and can no longer continue their practices. Shallan states Jasnah did it to prove a point, did it to prove she could. Jasnah responds that she did not do it to prove a point. She explains that she did it to help Taravangian with a problem he could not fix. She recognizes him associating with a known heretic can cost him a lot, so sought to balance the scales as it were and do him a good turn. Jasnah then comments about “men like those”, which does imply there is something personal for Jasnah in wanting to see murderers off the street. She then confirms that the actions in the alley way were actions she chose to do for herself, nothing to due with Shallan’s lesson. However she used her actions as an opportunity to ask further questions. So the men’s deaths was not for the lesson. It was a separate action Jasnah had intended to take unrelated to Shallan in an effort to help a man she respects accomplish defending the city he loves, with a hint of personal vendetta against murderers. Finally Jasnah does not try to paint her actions in a favorable light, nor try to convince Shallan to see things her way. She presents Shallan with questions for Shallan to find the answers to on her own, fully knowing the result could be turning Shallan against her or losing her ward. The scene closes (for the purpose of this post) with Shallan pointing out that Jasnah did not have to kill them all. Jasnah replies that Shallan doesn’t know that they would have stopped after that, and where as a careless barmaid walking home the wrong way cannot protect herself, Jasnah can and will. Shallan points out that Jasnah lacks the authority to take such action in this city, to which Jasnah concedes the point. However as brought up earlier in the scene, going based on the city, not even the king was able to stop the murders. So it appears not even the king had the “authority” to do anything about it. I did not include this scene because it is Shallan going over various in world philosophical thought on whether or not Jasnah’s actions were ethical. For myself, this post is to get to know Jasnah better as a person, both with favorable attributes and failings. I am not here to argue whether or not her actions were ethical. I am here to understand why she took the actions she did. So I have chosen to skip this scene. After two weeks of struggling with the morality and ethics of what happened with Jasnah, Shallan presents her findings. Despite Shallan disagreeing with Jasnah, Jasnah respects the process she went through to come to her conclusions. What is especially telling about this scene is when Jasnah muses on her use of the soulcasting. She says that she was “trying to do good” and that she “sometimes wonder if I should accomplish more with my soulcaster”. From Jasnah’s own mouth, she did not kill the men for cold, dispassionate reasons. She genuinely feels she was trying to make the world a better place and help Taravangian. This scene is telling for me, because Kabsal is admitting that even though Jasnah is well aware of what he is trying to accomplish (convert her) and why (for his own prestige), she still gives him well over an hour of her time (of which she barely can spare researching the end of the world) for him to make his case. Again, open to others beliefs. This scene I find very poignant and ironic at the same time. Here Kabsal is assuming Jasnah is seeking to disprove the existence of the voidbringers in an effort to disprove the existence of the Almighty to ultimately destroy the institution that is Vorinism. Why I find this ironic is because as we have seen on numerous occasions, Jasnah has take no action nor shown any inclination to “destroy” Vorinism. It has been Vorinism that has continually misrepresented her, harassed her, attempted to steal from her, and attempted to assassinate her. Yet Kabsal says “Haven’t we been scourged enough? The ardents are no threat to her”. His words seem to say one thing, but his, as well as his religion’s actions seem to say something quite different. Vorinism has made it very clear that Jasnah cannot just exist with her own beliefs. Her very existence is an afront worthy of harassment and death. Yet Jasnah is treated as if she is the actively antagonistic one. Naturally any person who is not a complete emotionless sociopath, when seeing someone close to them bleeding out on the ground would cry for help and do all they can to stop that person from dying. This is a great scene for showing Jasnah’s emotions and humanity. The moment the king allowed visitors to see Shallan, Jasnah was the first by her side. It is in fact revealed that Jasnah had postponed her research that she has pursued to the point of obsession to save the world, to be right outside where Shallan was recovering and be by her side the moment she could. After seeing Shallan was recovering, the first thing Jasnah does is apologize. She admits to being prideful, and worries she worked Shallan too hard. She then gives Shallan a wonderful compliment that Shallan could be one of the great scholars of her generation. Jasnah reproves herself for treating Shallan as she has (despite us knowing Shallan did in fact enjoy every bit of it, and said herself that Jasnah thinks she works her harder than she does) and understands Shallan’s seeming desire to return to her family. Jasnah then gifts Shallan the Book of Endless Pages. We see clearly how much this book means to Jasnah. Not only the book, but what it represents to her. This book is associated with a Vorin devotery. One she respects enough to cherish a book that represents one of their belief structures. She goes on to say that “you will find wise men in any religion, Shallan, and good men in every nation. Those who truly seek wisdom are those who will acknowledge the virtue of their adversaries and who will learn from those who disabuse them of error. All others - heretic, Vorin, Ysperist, or Maakian - are equally close-minded.” Jasnah respects any, regardless of religious affiliation, so long as that person truly seeks wisdom, is open to knowledge regardless the source, and will admit when they have made errors. As we have seen so far, all three that Jasnah herself holds to. Shallan then comes to the conclusion that Jasnah is not trying to disprove Vorinism based on how she hears Jasnah speak on religion. Then Kabsal arrives and we see another bout of humanity from Jasnah! She just got through thinking her student, who she cares deeply for nearly committed suicide from stress. Protective of Shallan (and dare I say in this case irrational?), Jasnah immediately tries to turn Kabsal away. Not because he is an ardent. Not because of their past problems, but because Jasnah is worried about Shallan. When Shallan then asserts it was not Kabsal’s fault, Jasnah stops and accepts Shallan’s overture to enjoy food together. Keep in mind Jasnah also does this despite the danger as she believes Kabsal to be a spy/assassin enough to suspect the jam is poisoned. She didn’t stop Shallan from eating the bread because she suspected it was safe. Unfortunately turns out Jasnah made a mistake, and it was the reverse. Again Jasnah is freaking out that Shallan is dying and is doing all she can to save her. Shallan then reveals she stole the soulcaster from Jasnah. Had Jasnah not cared about Shallan. Had Jasnah been cold and emotionless, she could have easily claimed she tried to save Shallan but the poison was too fast and let her die. Jasnah’s secret would have been safe from a thief pretending to be a ward and an assassin pretending to be an ardent. Yet Jasnah saved Shallan’s life. Let’s review from Jasnah’s perspective what she just found out. The ardent that she suspected was out to kill her, despite Shallan’s urging to give him a chance, was in fact out to kill her. The ward that Jasnah has begun to care and trust against her better judgement (due to being busy researching the end of the world) seemingly attempted suicide after stealing Jasnah’s soulcaster and betraying her. Quite the rollercoaster ride of emotions wouldn’t you say? So saying Jasnah is feeling angry, betrayed and emotionally hurt would be an understatement. Jasnah saved Shallan’s life. Despite the betrayal and all that means, Jasnah still saved her when it would have been far easier, and accomplish so much more to just let her die. Why? Because Jasnah cares for Shallan. Even when scolding Shallan for her betrayal, Jasnah laments the future Shallan could have had. I also find it interesting that when Jasnah explains to Shallan how stealing the soulcaster would upset the Ardentia as well as Alethkar, she says “do you realize what my brother would have done if he’d learned of this?”. Not Jasnah. Her brother. He is the one that would have taken it as a personal offense and pursued her. Despite all of this, Jasnah still sympathizes with Shallan’s youth, and arranges her passage home. Jasnah had every right to have Shallan locked up or even potentially executed for the theft. Instead she opts to let Shallan go, while expressing how regretful she is that Shallan destroyed her own future on a mad scheme. She expected better of Shallan, and was disappointed. Talking about next scene. The first line shows what Jasnah could have done to Shallan if she so chose to. Jasnah could lock her up in prison for the rest of her young life. Yet Jasnah arranged passage for Shallan to return home. She….let….her....go. That to me is the action of a caring individual towards someone who hurt and disappointed them. Not cold and emotionless. Shallan then explains what happened during the assassination. Jasnah first thought the jame was poisoned, so soulcasted it. Then she thought her bread in particular was poisoned so soulcasted it as well. Shallan had eaten the bread in the past on numerous occasions with no ill effects, so Jasnah had no reason to think Shallan’s life was in danger. She only changed the portions she was specifically offered, believing that Kabsal would have arranged it that way. Almost unfortunately for Shallan, she was wrong. Thankfully despite the betrayal, and every sign that Shallan was in league with Kabsal the assassin, Jasnah still saved Shallan’s life. Now let’s rehash what Shallan just revealed to Jasnah before she soulcasts. She admitted she stole from Jasnah. She admitted she lied about her suicide attempt. Finally she admitted she knows Jasnah’s secret. A cold, calculating, and emotionless person would be thinking of all the ways she could remove Shallan before word gets out, or be manipulated by her. Shallan however, obliges without being asked, and soulcasts resulting in her drowning in beads. All Jasnah would have had to do was stand by and Shallan would have died. She could have then arranged it to look like she committed suicide in front of Jasnah after being emotionally distraught from being discovered, and then Jasnah’s secret is safe. What does Jasnah do? She saves Shallan again. After returning her to her body, Jasnah angrily admonishes her as an idiot. Why? Because soulcasting is incredibly dangerous (as Jasnah herself discovered in the flash back in Words of Radiance, which I get to later in this post) to begin with and on top of that Shallan used a dim sphere, increasing the danger. Which says to me that Jasnah was worried about Shallan’s well-being. She was worried Shallan could have gotten hurt. Shallan believes it is because she has Jasnah trapped due to the information she has, but as I explained, if that was the case Jasnah could have easily “removed” her on multiple occasions. Shallan then begs Jasnah to let her be a part of her research, and Jasnah lets her. Still when speaking of religion, there is not a hint of personal vendetta, nor enmity. It is calm reflection. Religion takes natural phenomena and ascribes supernatural causes such as a deity. Science, and by extension Jasnah, seeks to take supernatural events and find a natural cause. It is through this that she was able to reason the connection between the voidbringers and the parshmen. This is the research she has been obsessing over due to fear of everyone she loves being killed. It is like discovering your house pet (cat, dog, bird, etc) can at a moments notice change into a monster bent on the death of you and everyone you love. On top of that, feeling utterly powerless to stop it. Later scenes I cover delve into this further. By Jasnah’s own words, she is terrified. She essentially found out all across Roshar are mini nukes just waiting to be activated to go off. The past desolations were literal apocalypse level events. Despite this, she does not call for their extinction. She calls for more information. They need to understand more. They need to learn more. Realizing the parshmen are the voidbringers are not enough. She wants to learn how and why they change to hopefully prevent it. She is also afraid that other groups will want this information to take control of the parshmen and use them against them. We later learn in Oathbringer the validity of this theory. The ghostbloods want to keep both sides balanced, so they can gain greater power. Jasnah is trying to stop it. Amaram is trying to cause it so the Heralds return and the church returns to its dominance. I think that speaks volumes for Jasnah. She is not using it for personal gain. She is trying to protect the ones she loves. Here we get the first taste of the reaction Jasnah’s “heresy” incited. Stares and gossip over such an unprecedented occurrence. Dalinar getting drunk and creating a scene is considered normal and understandable by proxy. Jasnah knew the reaction she was going to get, but she did it anyway. I think we get a taste, a hint of the thirst for knowledge and the implaccable determination that drives Jasnah forward. She is very much alone and will be isolated for this from the nobility and in some ways from her family (namely her father). Despite that, Jasnah stands firm in her convictions. I like the juxtaposition of this scene, because just when we see Jasnah’s inner strength, we also see how vulnerable she can be. Her own shadow is betraying her. She instantly feels a spike of anxiety and nausea. Ultimately she is able to gather herself, but we see in a bit this is only the beginning. She runs into her father, and I think he is being unfair to her. His daughter prefers to avoid drunken loud parties, and he admonishes her for it. A man that we have confirmation from WoB tends to use people (including his own brother) more as tools than as people. Then, showing his lack of understanding for his daughter, urges her once more towards Amaram. What I also find interesting is Jasnah realizes her father looks at her with mistrust while back in Way of Kings we see Dalinar greatly trusts and depends on her enough to ask her on numerous occasions to come to the Shattered Plains for her support. Then we come to the part that begins to show us what logic and rational thought are to Jasnah. They are her armor and shield. They protect her, but that does not mean behind that armor that a heart of emotion does not beat. We have seen numerous examples so far of how emotional and human Jasnah is, and I still have many more to cover (in fact far more than even I recalled). When Jasnah is confronted by the inkspren and falls into Shadesmar she felt fear, and uncertainty. She drew upon logic to guide her and help her through it. She drew upon the love of her family and her desire to protect them. She faced her fears, and survived a near death experience. It is this experience that causes her to be so hard on Shallan regarding soulcasting. She realizes she could have died, and worries the same might happen to Shallan. She is not keeping information from Shallan, she is trying to protect her and keep her safe. Jasnah meets with the assassin and she instructs her to watch only. Jasnah feels she needs more information. She finds assassination distasteful, and will seek other avenues if possible, but will use it if necessary. This proves just because she considers a possibility, does not mean she will follow through on it because Aesudan doesn’t get assassinated. Given what we find out in Oathbringer, perhaps she should have been, but we do know the reason she wasn’t was because Jasnah stayed her hand. We also know as per WoB, that the reason she considered assassinating Aesudan to begin with was to protect her family whom she loves. Her standing orders with all assassins is if they are offered a job to kill her family, she will meet and exceed what they are being paid to give Jasnah information on who hired them. Again, protecting. Jasnah muses about how she looked into and vetted just about everyone at the party, again focusing on protecting the people she loves. Then Jasnah hears the drums stop, and screaming. What is the first thing she thinks/does? She thinks of her family and runs towards the screaming. She thinks to herself about her father looking at her with suspicion in the same sentence as her thinking about the shadows coming to life. The shadows coming to life was a scary moment for her. She became nauseous with anxiety. She couples her father’s distrust with that experience. To me that says she loves her father, and was hurt by his distrust. “Control yourself, control…. She couldn’t. Now now. Frantic, she ran into the quarters, though a Shardbearer would kill her with ease. She wasn’t thinking straight”. That clearly shows an emotional, caring, fearful, loving Jasnah. She knowingly is putting herself in danger. A danger that would spell her doom, all to be there for her father. She then gets to experience a front row seat of the death of her father. His final moments. She has to watch him fall to his death. She screams and runs to the edge. She cries for the loss of her father. For her family she tried so hard to protect. This extends to the great weight she puts on her shoulders to stop the desolation. She is now trying to protect the world. The parshendi leaders then claim credit for the death of her father, that she just had to watch, and now speak to her calmly practically over his corpse. Angry and confused Jasnah demands answers. Sadeas then comes into the room and takes over. Jasnah then states “There will be war, and I will not stand in its way”. She did not swear vengeance, nor declare war on the parshendi people like Elhokar did. She did not call for their extermination and hunting down of every single last one of them as Elhokar and Sadeas did. Jasnah realized this act would lead to war, and hurt and betrayed, she states she will not try to stop it. That says to me normally she would. That she would make efforts to stop wars. Otherwise why even say that? This is supported considering all her subsequent efforts of research are to prevent the greatest and worst war her planet has ever known. The Desolations. We get to hear more of Shallan’s musings on Jasnah. What is interesting, is even while Shallan has an idealized view of Jasnah, she is also learning to see beneath the surface. It is not that Jasnah does not care what people think. It is Jasnah understands that how you present yourself, and carry yourself will affect how people perceive you. As a princess to the most powerful nation in the world, she has been raised to understand this, and know how to use it. Jasnah also has no problem “getting dirty” by sitting on the boxes on the deck in order to talk to her ward in a scenario and manner that is more comfortable to Shallan. Once again, (noticing so many that this is getting downright repetitive lol) Jasnah shows understanding to others beliefs, even if they do not align with her own. The sailors have “superstitions” that the santhid is lucky. Instead of making the sailor feel stupid, or deride him for such beliefs, Jasnah nods, says “I shall take any fortune provided me, Nanhel Eltorv”. She acknowledges his belief, and even makes a point to use his name, showing she is considerate enough to know them as people, and not mere servants. Shallan tries to get Jasnah to say she thinks them fools. Instead Jasnah is respectful and complimentary of the captain and his crews sailing capabilities. To me the message is clear. It does not matter your religious inclinations so long as they do not intrude on your capabilities in accomplishing your job. Jasnah then begins to teach Shallan about Shadesmar. This is a great part because we learn quite a few things about Jasnah. First, this enforces what I wrote earlier as to why Jasnah ordered Shallan not to soulcast. She says so herself, she nearly died in her first experience with Shadesmar. She does not want the same for Shallan. Jasnah was protecting her out of concern for her wellbeing. As Jasnah explains, she also admits her own ignorance. She states that she has been researching it for 6 years and has barely scratched the surface of understanding the place. That even as she tries to explain it, she refers to it in an erroneous manner. We then get the best quote that encapsulates Shallan’s view of Jasnah and for me why there are so many incorrect readings of her. “Jasnah grimaced at the thought. Shallan was always surprised to see visible emotion from her. Emotion was something relatable, something human - and Shallan’s mental image of Jasnah Kholin was of someone almost divine.” Jasnah, to Shallan, is everything she wishes she could be. But that impression is mostly surface. A hard diamond surface that I hope through typing this long post shows is not the real Jasnah. The real Jasnah has emotions. She loves. She cries. She gets angry. She makes mistakes. She learns from them. She is human. Even as Jasnah takes joy in teaching Shallan, and their burgeoning relationship, the fact Shallan exists terrifies her. For Jasnah it means the end really is coming. Jasnah knowing the enormity of their upcoming task, and what she will be asking of Shallan for her to help her, Jasnah helps preserve Shallan’s family so Shallan can focus on the voidbringers. Despite knowing the “cold” necessity given the impending danger, Jasnah is still considerate of Shallan. She only inquired about the possibility of setting up a casual between Adolin and Shallan. It was Navani that jumped on it with a gusto and got things moving forward so quickly. Even though it ultimately was not Jasnah’s fault, she still apologizes to Shallan. Even though this solution is perfectly logical, and would solve all the issues, she still checks with Shallan. She makes sure Shallan knows she can change her mind. She checks to see if it bothered Shallan. All things someone who cares for another individual, and is considerate of others feelings would do. We then get a master class as Jasnah explains how her authority works, and about perception. We practically get a blow by blow reveal that the Jasnah everyone is “so scared of” and sees as “cold and emotionless”, is not actually Jasnah. It is a Jasnah she presents in order to exist within the Alethi court. It is a Jasnah she presents in order to stand up to the Vorin church. It is a Jasnah she presents in order to accomplish the goals she needs to stop the end of the world. But that is not all there is to Jasnah. There is a Jasnah inside people very rarely get to see. And to me that is the real Jasnah. I think this scene gives us some wonderful hints into Jasnah’s character. First we have Ivory who is uncomfortable being discussed. Jasnah is not keeping this information from Shallan out of control, nor pettiness towards the betrayal. She is doing it out of consideration and respect towards her spren. We then see yet another example of how Jasnah does not tell Shallan how to think. Jasnah asks Shallan questions, and allows her to derive her own conclusions. Jasnah even takes the fact that Shallan is devout into consideration when discussing religion. She apologizes for going off on what she terms a tangent because she forgot how such words would make Shallan feel as a believer. When pressed, Jasnah explains that it is not personal against Vorinism. She holds the same standard to all the world’s religions. Most of all we reach a favorite quote of mine that I tend to use in response to people who say Jasnah would have to re-evaluate her beliefs when she meets a shard. She says “I merely claimed that I do not accept him as God, nor do I feel any inclination to worship him”. She realizes and accepts there are beings running around with powers beyond her. However, this does not mean they should be worshipped. She is a being with powers beyond other people. Does that mean she should be worshipped? Here is another wonderful scene that shows the depth of Jasnah’s character. It begins with Shallan remarking to herself how people naturally defer to Jasnah without her even having to ask. So we could potentially theorize that Jasnah did not even ask for the captain’s quarters. That he provided them because he assumed that is what a princess would want. Shallan peaks in on Jasnah, and for the first time sees Jasnah without her armor completely up. And what does she find? Jasnah red eyed, exhausted, and terrified. The “divine” Jasnah that Shallan thinks is impervious to all things and can accomplish anything, is about ready to collapse and feels powerless to save the ones she loves. Despite this terror, Jasnah pulls herself together, puts on her “mask”, and tries to reassure Shallan. She is trying to be strong for Shallan. Jasnah is afraid she will be too late, just like she was too late to stop the death of her father. She has tried warning everyone, but no one will listen. Despite the threat, her warning isn’t even to kill the parshmen. Her warning is to let them go. To keep them away from large population centers to try and avoid the level of devastation and death all the texts speak of. A warning Dalinar takes to heart and employs when he leaves for the Shattered Plains. He does not execute them, he lets them go. Yet again we find out in Kholinar the same thing. The warning Jasnah gave, that Dalinar related to Kholinar was to let them go. She is desperate for more information, more proof to show her findings are true. To convince as many people as she can, so she can save as many lives as she can. On top of that is the hope that Urithiru is safe. A last bastion that humanity could retreat to. So taking a step out of the books for a second to look at a deleted scene. Brandon sometimes does these to discovery write a character so he can get himself into the frame of mind to write them. I do not recall if this is counted as canon or not, but I think it gives us a great look into Jasnah’s head so I am going to comment on it. This is what happened to Jasnah after she was stabbed on the boat. She escaped to Shadesmar. We do not see her exult in victory for escaping. We do not see her run off and forget the people on the ship. What we find out is first, she was pulled out by Ivory, so she did not intend to abandon Shallan nor the people on the ship. Second, her first thoughts once she calms down after her near death experience is Shallan and going back to help her. Her next thought is realizing the sailors are being executed and wanting to help/save them as well. It is only because she does not have enough stormlight to do so, that she doesn’t. She literally can’t. Despite the danger of Shadesmar. Despite the warning of Ivory about the grinders coming, Jasnah uses the last of her stormlight to free the sailors. To try somehow in someway to help save them. Nothing much to add here. Another example of how Shallan views Jasnah. Another example of the emotions shared between them. Shallan is genuinely sad over the loss of Jasnah. I included this scene because I feel through Shallan it gives us a look into Jasnah’s head. Everyone sees what Jasnah projects, but they rarely see what goes on in her head. This is what Shallan experiences and I do not think it a stretch to theorize that perhaps Jasnah went through a similar beginning. Learning how to project confidence and strength, even when inside you are scared. Shallan realizing and commenting to herself that just because Jasnah appeared dispassionate, does not mean she was actually dispassionate. In fact because of that moment on the ship, Shallan realizes the truth was quite different. Jasnah is deeply worried, and driving herself harder than anyone else to stop the end. This is a great moment. Shallan realizes that despite Jasnah saying she considers art a frivolity, Jasnah still held onto the drawing Shallan made of her. She kept it among her most precious things. If that isn’t a sign Jasnah cares for Shallan I don’t know what would. Yet another quote showing the great burden Jasnah was toiling under. It has surprised me how many times these things are mentioned. Far more than I initially thought. Perhaps since these thoughts are but a few lines, with a lot of space between, it is easy to pass over them. Seeing them lined up one after the other though seems to really hammer it home for me. I wanted to include this quote, because I found it interesting that despite Adolin’s excitement for the pending nuptials, he still considers Jasnah “manipulating” him. Despite this we know the reality of the situation is it was Navani that urged it forward, and my very next quote in Words of Radiance has Shallan setting things straight. From Shallan’s own lips. Jasnah just brought the idea forward for them to consider it. Any pressure would come more from Navani, and any other (potential) societal norms. But Jasnah was most certainly not forcing the two together. This is an excerpt from one of Jasnah’s published writings. I really like this mention because it shows what is a priority to Jasnah. Personal choice. She is not condemning any women for choosing to be a wife. Nor is she saying only the scholarly life is of any worth. She is arguing a woman should have a right to choose between them if she so desires. I think this might be part of what led Jasnah to atheism. Feeling liberated from a belief structure whose rules restrict asking of questions, and force gender roles. I think it says a lot for her strength of character that Jasnah chose the path she did. I find this scene, and a few others below interesting because it brings us back to the outside view of Jasnah. The view other people hold of her. Cold, and distant. Meanwhile I feel our journey through Way of Kings and Words of Radiance show us a very different picture. I wonder if this was intention on Brandon’s part. As if to say “here is Jasnah as we know her. Then here is the Jasnah we get to know. Now ask yourself how you feel when you hear people talk about Jasnah this way after we got to know her on a deeper level”. At the same time this also adds depth to the mystery that is Jasnah. What happened to Jasnah to change her from Navani’s little girl, so full of questions? So that is the end of Way of Kings and Words of Radiance. There is perhaps one more quote I wanted to include in Words of Radiance, but I think I will settle for first seeing the response to this.
  9. 16 points
    Cracks knuckles I think it's about time I immortalised this somewhere other than discord: I really love The Emperor's Soul. It's my favourite Cosmere book. It's such a matchless work of art that, when I finished it, I closed my copy and dropped it into the fireplace.
  10. 16 points
    Tien = 10 + i i is the Imaginary Number, the Square Root of Negative 1 The most Negative One around is Odium Tien is ODIUM!!!
  11. 15 points
    I came up with this one at around 12:00 A.M. last night. Still not sure what made me think of it...
  12. 14 points
    So here's the dealio: for every meme I post that's already been used, I'll make one of my own (as penance due to laziness for not checking beforehand lol) So hope these two haven't been used yet ...*fingers crossed*
  13. 13 points
    the pokemon game I really want to see:
  14. 13 points
    Text meme time! (Those are still 'a thing', right?) And a tribute to the things my sleep-deprived brain thinks of at 3 am in the morning. (You swallow them and then they work their magic from inside of you, making it look like you're a mistborn, but in reality you're just a vessel. ) I'll conclude with a Shardcast meme. Fin.
  15. 13 points
    I had a different interpretation of the Oath pattern. Here goes. 1st Ideal: Overall Mission Statement. This Ideal is universal to all Knights regardless of Order. The rest exclude Lightweavers since they are structured differently than everyone else. 2nd Ideal: Order Mission Statement This Ideal is the first unique Oath. It will roughly be the same for all Knights of that Order and my guess is that it ties in to the first of the Divine Attributes associated with the Order. For example, Windrunner is Protecting/Leading. This Oath and all the others will be about Protection. The other Attribute is what the Knight is all about. Their Oaths center on protection. They will be leaders. Since strength of squires is a Windrunner thing it makes sense to me. This also works for Skybreakers and Edgedancers. Skybreakers are Just/Confident and all their Oaths are about justice. They're a pretty confident bunch. Edgedancers (Loving/Healing) have Oaths that deal with love, and they're natural healers. 3rd Ideal: Personalized Expansion of Mission Statement On this Oath the Knight takes ownership of their Oath, signifying what the Order means to them in the context of their Divine Attributes. It serves to narrow the focus and the words will be accepted as long as it's in the same theme as the Oaths. Compare and contrast Kaladin's and Teft's 3rd Ideal. 4th Ideal: Refining Personalized Mission Statement This Ideal is often the hardest to achieve because this Oath is the proving ground for one's beliefs. Skybreakers call this Ideal the Ideal of Crusade and it seems logical that the other Orders follow this pattern in a similar way. It deals with exceptions to the rules set and many will find it hard to achieve the proper equilibrium. Jasnah sparing Renarin, choosing compassion over logic, is what I believe is the impetus for her 4th Ideal. Kaladin could not say it because he couldn't come to terms with the fact that he cannot protect everyone. And although Lightweavers don't necessarily follow this pattern, if they have progressed this far then they are dealing with the hardest Truths they can come to grips with. 5th Ideal: Embodiment The final Ideal is the one where a Knight internalizes everything that Order represents. I mostly got this from Nale's 5th. I am Law. You gotta be pretty confident to believe you are worthy to be an ultimate judge of mankind. And I believe people that can say Ideal 5 are those that most resemble their patron Herald pre-Last Desolation. Kaladin upon saying Oath 5 will be like Jezrian used to be before a dozen Desolations scrambled his brain. Knights are broken when they enter their Nahel Bond. Spren fill the cracks more completely with every Oath spoken. By the time they can speak their final Ideal they will have been made whole with the soul merge between them and their Spren. To me, that's the same as emotional healing.
  16. 13 points
    Hey Lerasium, I don't want to sound like another person disagreeing, but I think I might have an idea of where your interpretation has differed from most other people's in regards to that WoB. It seems like you had a different intention with your question than you actually asked. I think you were hoping to ask something on the verge of: What is Dalinar's role in all future Stormlight books? When Brandon only talked about 4 & 5, you took that as confirmation that Dalinar would not appear in any other books. However, Brandon was not trying to answer that question. When he answered you, he was only talking about Dalinars immediate future. He very intentionally only told you about the next two books, no further. That's what Brandon's second message is trying to make clear: Whether Dalinar is in the back five or not, Brandon is not revealing anything. Dalinar could be in every chapter in the back five, or he could be in none of them, and Brandon's answer would be the same. That's what he's trying to convey. This is why he said he's "very, very intentionally not saying anything about any of the characters after book five." Now as you mentioned, we've seen with Lift that he's let a few things slip here and there, like you pointed out, but I think he is trying to be very careful now to not let anything else slip out. And you may have other reasons for thinking Dalinar will die (it's a possibility, sure!) but I think what people are trying to show you is that this WoB shouldn't be taken as proof that Dalinar only has two books left. That's not what Brandon is saying to you in this WoB at all. And that's why Brandon himself told you you were "reading a lot more into [his] reply than what [he] said." That's Brandon's way of saying that him not talking about Dalinar in the back five is not mean Dalinar can't be in them. Brandon's saying it could be either way, he won't confirm.
  17. 13 points
    Dude in middle school threw a copy of Mistborn at me and it hit me on the head. Picked it up and ran because it was his book and it was revenge. Read it. Instantly hooked. Never gave the book back.
  18. 12 points
    Welcome to LG53: The Fate of the Forum. This is a Semi-Blackout game of Spambots vs. Eliminators. Our dear Admin Chaos has given me the information about several Spammers who have infiltrated our forum, and are impersonating members of our community. He has tasked us with removing them. Luckily, we Eliminators have an advantage. We know all about the abilities of the Spammers, but the Spammers are unfamiliar with us. Spammer Roles: (Not all roles will be included) Vodiyehi: Has a script that can make thousands of posts per day. If Vodiyehi targets you, no one else will be able to do so. Only Votes and Lynches will be able to target a player. Babaji: Has access to Near Eastern magic that can inspire love or hate. If they target you with love, you will end up joining them. Luckily the cooldown for this is yearly, so they’ll only be able to get one of us before we get them. If they target you with Hate, you will die, no matter what. This can also only be used once. SookeSiled: Posts lots of corrupted URLs and infects computers. If they target you, everyone on the forum who didn’t use their computer will also target you that night. Beirst1928: Built one of the Best Firewalls known to man. Immune to everything except the Lynch. Temptation: Absolutely terrifying with Code. They get into the code and corrupt it. If they target you, your action will do exactly what you didn’t want. You will accidently ban a player instead of protect them. Or you will accidentally reveal your IP address instead of PM them. Or something. And then they will know what and who you are. Vashikaran: They’re rather good at deleting code, so if they target you, there is a good chance that your account will be temporarily disabled. The Spammers do have their own server to talk in, and as a group can get an account deleted every Weekend. I’ll be doing my best to hunt them down myself, so hopefully they won’t all be in play. But I will check in at 11:59 PM PST every Week to check who you guys have vote on, and that player will be banned. Mechanics and House Keeping: Open PM’s. Cycles are split into 2 Turns: Weeks which have a lynch, and Weekends when the Spammers get their Kill. Tied Lynches are decided at Random. At least 0 votes are needed for a lynch. Not all village roles are unique. Quick Links:
  19. 11 points
    So I've been thinking about the glyphs that are on some Shardblades and not others. Examination of Shallan's sketch in WoR shows clearly that Sunraiser has ten glyphs along its length, while Firestorm does not. Now possibly Sunraiser is somehow unique in this regard, but this seems unlikely. If Sunraiser were the only Shardblade to have glyphs along its edge, I should think it would have been called out explicitly as being special or noteworthy in this regard. There are ten glyphs along one edge of the Blade. There are presumably ten more on the other. Twenty glyphs total. As near as I can tell, a set of Shardplate looks like this: This description is taken from chapter 26 of TWoK, when Dalinar puts on his Shardplate. The reader should note that there are exactly twenty pieces of armor mentioned. (At least, there are exactly twenty pieces of armor mentioned if the phrase "culet and faulds" is taken to be two pieces of armor, not three. If the culet and faulds are three distinct pieces, then there are 21 pieces and the theory does not hold so well.) So we have twenty glyphs on some Blades, and twenty pieces of armor that make up Shardplate. I do not think this is a coincidence. Being a fan of the lesser-spren-as-Plate theory, I am reminded of the two ardents in TWoK, who are able to trap spren into certain forms by measuring and recording their size. I propose that Radiant spren do much the same, by "recording" the shape in which they wish the lesser spren to remain upon their own Blade. Since presumably not all Knights had advanced far enough to have Plate at the time of the Recreance, this would explain why not all Blades have the glyphs. It's just a theory, but twenty glyphs along a Blade and twenty pieces in a set of Plate seems like rather too much coincidence to be ignored.
  20. 11 points
    The entire fandom in a shellnut
  21. 11 points
    So far we do only know a few of the different oaths that Radiants swear however I believe that there exists something of a pattern that exists across the different oaths. The one exception I must make is the Lightweavers who swear truths and not oaths. The first ideal is the ideal of Radiance "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination." This ideal is the same for all Radiant regardless of their order although it has many different interpretations. The second oath however starts a pattern. We only know about 6 all 10 orders oaths however they oaths do seem similar. "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves." (Windrunners) "I swear to seek justice, to let it guide me, until I find a more perfect Ideal."(Skybreakers). "I will remember those who have been forgotten"(Edgedancers) "I will unite instead of divide. I will bring men together"(Bondsmiths) Finally we think the stonewards swear something like "I will stand where others fall" although this is not cannon. Together I would like to categorize these ideals as ideals of service. The purpose of all of these seems to be that the Radiant is question understands how to and why they can benefit the community in some way. They also must have the ability to articulate it to their spren. I would not be surprised if the other orders also follow this pattern. The third oath is a bit trickier but I think that the pattern continues. "I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right"(Windrunners). The Skybreakers have an ideal of law swearing themselves to a specific code and the Bondsmiths seem to swear the oath of either responsibility or self improvement. "I will listen to those who have been ignored."(Edgedancers). I would like to catagorize these as oaths of improvement. In this the Radiant articulates to themselves and their spren that they will better themselves swearing to an ideal that will guide their behavior, how they plan to act, and the person they want to be. We do not know much about the forth ideal but if I am right about them being grouped across orders then the Skybreaker ideal of crusade looks to me like an ideal of action. In this the Radiant explains to their spren that they are going in some way to be proactive working to instill the ideals they follow in others by showing an example of what they should be. I know nothing about the 5th ideal although I suspect it has something to do with balance just because it never seems to be addressed in any other ideal and it seems kind of necessary to any functional society. Am I on to something? Making things up? Thoughts?
  22. 11 points
    (Oathbringer spoiler below:)
  23. 11 points
    I disagree with a popular theory, which is that Dalinar will take up Honour. But I do think Dalinar will become someone who holds that power, just not alone. There are ten orders of knights, each expressing a different part facet of Honour, and most of them are contradictory. Skybreakers and Windrunners fought one another, each trying to keep their oaths, which ran against one another. Lightweavers don't get on with Windrunners, with their differences in approach and views. Some focus more on martial honour and others more on social honour. Some are outward focuses and some inwards. Only Bondsmiths keep them all in line, keep them united, but even then, a Bondsmith doesn't express every facet of honour - Bondsmiths express only bringing people together, and becoming a better person. Thematically, the stories are also about how no one person can save them, they must unite together. Multiple nations, multiple species, multiple Orders. I think when Honour was splintered that it was also a splintering along the lines of the idea of Honour, and I think that can be reconciled only by having ten people, each representing the ideal of honour in different ways, guided by a Bondsmith and possibly a Truthwatcher, unite, and together take up Honour. Ten people, ten spren - or maybe more - taking up Honour, each to represent a different side of it. And possibly taking up parts of the other shards too. I think this will only happen in the tenth book, or maybe the ninth, but either way, I don't think Honour will be remade into a shard held by Dalinar or any other person, but by ten people, together. In new unity.
  24. 11 points
    10 is the magic number of the Rosharan system. There are 10 gas giants in the system, 10 Essences, 10 Surges which are tied to 10 fundamental forces of the cosmere, 10 Dawncities, 10 Silver Kingdoms, 10 Oathgates. 10 Months of the year, 10 weeks per month. But Tien is Ten + i. As if he wasn't a special and unique enough snowflake he has the magic number in his name. What could it mean!!! (It doesn't mean anything) Maybe they wanted to name him Ten, but his parents have country accents so it sounded drawn out southern Tieeen.
  25. 10 points
    So we know, that after Shallan read Mraize’s letter, Pattern said: “Secrets. There are lies in this letter.” I wanted to figure out what exactly could those lies be. I assume those are “meaningful” lies, not incorrect wording or something like that, but a deliberate attempt to tell Shallan something wrong, that can lead her the wrong way. I also assume that Pattern isn’t an ultimate detector of lies just because they are lies. He just sees patterns in all things, so he sees some misconnections and illogical statements, that’s why he says there are lies in the letter. I also don’t think that “lies” are similar to “hiding something”. So my assumption is that the lies in this letter are major and intentional. So, here is the whole letter (spoilered for length). TLDR: Sons on Honor want to bring Desolations and Heralds back. That’s obviously the truth, as stated in text and by WoBs. Skybreakers want to prevent the Desolations. That’s obviously the truth too. Heralds cannot be viewed as allies. There was an opinion somewhere on this forum, that this statement might be lies, but I disagree. All Heralds have different goals and have different states of mind - whos ally can Jezrien be, for example (he was alive when the letter was written)? Ash doesn’t seem to care too. Nale is an enemy to team Honor, others are playing their own games too. So, I think this thesis is also the truth. Shallan’s mother was involved with Skybreakers. This could be the lie, but I don’t think it is. It looks logical and makes sense. But if we imagine it was a lie - why mention it in the first place? What goal is he accomplishing by telling this lie to Shallan? I struggle to come up with an idea. Helaran was involved with Skybreakers. And this is the one I think is the lie. I will explain my PoV below. This Skybreakers reveal makes absolutely no sense to me. There are a lot contradictions to the facts we know so far. Let’s analyze this reveal from a logical standpoint. I will list all the details or statements, that I find doubtful or weird, provide them all with all possible explanations I can see, and try to disprove them: 1. Helaran’s Shardblade. a). The Shardblade is alive. i) The Shardblade is Helaran’s spren. If his Shardblade comes from his spren, then he must be at least 3rd level Skybreaker (which actually already is a lie, because the letter says he wanted to prove himself worthy of a spren bond), and in this case a 3rd level Skybreaker managed to get killed with a single face blow of a common spear, not using a single surge before his death. Did he forget to take infused spheres with him? ii). The Shardblade is other Radiant’s spren. If some other Radiant had borrowed Helaran his Shardblade, why didn’t they summon that Shardblade back after Helaran’s death? b). The Shardblade is dead. If Helaran isn’t bonded to a spren, as the letter itself states, then his Shardblade must be dead. This is the most likely case, if Skybreakers reveal is true. But it still doesn’t make sense to me. Why would Knights Radiant order keep a dead Shardblade? Why give it to a potential member of the order or whomever else? They have a lot of members of 3+ level wielding living Blades that can do such kind of job much more effectively. Why would Skybreakers need a Shardbearer wielding specifically dead Blade for any kind of job? The only possible reason for that could be if they needed to kill someone, who hasn’t committed any crimes, so this action wouldn’t damage their bonds. But wouldn’t it? If they don’t do it themselves but order someone else to do it, are their spren OK with that? All right, if giving an order to kill an innocent doesn’t damage the bond, why don’t they exploit their 3rd Oath, so that several 3rd level Skybreakers swear to follow Nale’s judgement, like Szeth sworn to follow Dalinar, and everyone wins? Nale’s bond is fine, as long as he doesn’t take frags for himself, members’ bonds are fine too, as they follow the chosen source of law. There was also an opinion somewhere on this forum, that Nale gave him the Blade to prevent him from bonding a spren. Again, doesn’t make sense. If Nale doesn’t want Helaran to bond a spren, why not just kill him? Well, you would say Helaran didn’t commit any crimes. But what does he do with his Shardblade then? If he never kills innocent people with his Shardblade, then why can’t he be replaced by a 3rd level Skybreaker, that can do absolutely the same more effectively? And if Helaran has ever killed an innocent man with his Blade, then Nale easily can just kill him and take his Blade back. And then give it to the next potential Surgebinder to lure him into the same trap. 2. Nale was impressed by Helaran. And here I want to know why. Because I am not impressed by Helaran yet. I know that Shallan thinks very well of him, but what did he do? I am not going to judge his actions or whatever, I just want to know, how could Helaran impress the Herald of Justice, that he had to recruit him to the Knights Radiant order by “display of great power and Shards”? All right, we don’t know what he did, but we have some of his quotes: He doesn’t speak about justice, he doesn’t listen to Lin’s explanations, he doesn’t seem to be rational and willing to do the right thing from the perspective of law. He speaks about vengeance, he is angry, he laughs, barks, summons his Shardblade and so on. He also says, that there are things, that are more important than his father’s crimes. Could something be more important than a crime to a Skybreaker? I don’t know, how this kind of behavior could have impressed Nale. 3. The timeline. The above quoted scene is from 5.5 years ago, and Helaran already has a Shardblade in it. So he has presumably joined Skybreakers more than 4 years prior to his death. So the conclusions are: i) The man that has impressed Nale himself couldn’t prove being worthy of a spren bond during more than 4 years. ii) That same man was 4 years a Shardbearer. Kaladin was 4 years a spearman. Blade and Plate are much more powerful weapons than a common spear. Still, Helaran died to Kaladin, given the same amount of time for training. Helaran has impressed Nale? 4. The whole point of proving worthy of a spren bond. As I understood from the text, wielding a dead Blade prevents one from bonding a spren. Also, I think that proving yourself worthy of bonding a highspren by killing 20 innocent people just passing by is not a terribly good decision. Well, all right, most of them attacked him, so it could count as self defence, but what did Cenn do? He was only 15, and Helaran trampled him with his horse. And by the way, was his horse also given to him by Skybreakers? 5. Some quotes about his business. It sounds strange to me, that Hoid could have said “doing things he finds very important” about being a member of Knights Radiant. I would read this as “playing his toys” or something like that. It’s just a strange wording, to me. I would say that it’s more likely be worded as “becoming someone” or “having an important mission” or something like that. And also it is strange, that Helaran has eyes, watching Lin. Would he have them, if he was a Skybreaker acolyte? All right, maybe Skybreakers would be interested in Lin’s crimes, but how wouldn’t they then notice Shallan and finish her mother’s job? And if Helaran truly thought Skybreakers’ mission important, wouldn’t he then tried to finish it too? Also, at this point of story Helaran is in Alethkar. Other times they mention his whereabouts they are in Jah Keved - Northgrip and Valath. Considering that Skybreakers’ fortress is in Purelake, it is strange, how far he is always from there. Another quote from Helaran himself: He also says that it’s a “work to do”. So it feels like this is the work that can be finished, not an ongoing process of eliminating Surgebinders and progressing as a KR. And notice also that he uses the pronoun “we”, and says that he will tell Shallan about it someday. Skybreakers don’t seem like a team doing the same job to me, and I also don’t think he would like to tell Shallan, that he is one of the Lost Radiants, killing other potential Lost Radiants to prevent the return of the Desolations. So, that’s my list of questions to Mraize, if you could say so. Well, if Helaran wasn’t a Skybreaker, then who? Either the Ghostbloods or the Diagram member. I personally think the Diagram makes more sense, but the Ghostbloods would be interesting too. I really don’t know, so would be nice if you could provide your opinions on the matter. I will share my thoughts on this. The Diagram Pros: It would perfectly explain the horse and the Shards, also his statements of “we have an important work to do” – it looks very much like how Moash and Graves worded their motives, and also Hoid’s “does things he finds important”, which could be explained as “kid playing revolution”. We also know that Mr T knew about Helaran: (btw, I think it’s not about teaching Shallan surgebinding, but about teaching her use her Shardblade) Another interesting thing to me is that “Patriots” chapter, in which Kaladin meets Graves follows the chapter in which Hoid tells Shallan about Helaran. It was 3.5 years ago, and then: So we have a chapter, that states that Helaran was in Alethkar 3.5 years ago, and in the next chapter Danlan says she was in Kholinar 3 years ago, and she is a member of the Diagram. Cons: It’s still not clear, why Mraize would lie to cover up the Diagram. My assumption is that Mraize’s main bounty is information, and he just doesn’t want to give away a huge chunk of it, when he can give away almost nothing, because Shallan will discover the Skybreakers soon anyway from Szeth/Lift. Also, no clear reason for the Diagram to kill Amaram. The Ghostbloods Pros: Explains why Mraize lies to Shallan about it. Interesting option plot-wise, because it could be that Ghostbloods had sent Helaran to his death on purpose, if they were aware of Kaladin (they were aware of Tien, so we can assume the same about Kaladin). Cons: The assault was quite dumb for the Ghostbloods. Doesn’t explain the horse and the Shards. Lin was a member too, and he ordered Helaran’s assassination. I would like to hear your opinions on the matter, but I regarding the Ghostbloods I would very much appreciate if you tried to avoid spoilers from the other Cosmere books, as I haven't yet read them. I understand, that the Ghostbloods are Cosmere aware guys, but I'm not.
  26. 10 points
    Respectfully, this is a logical fallacy. To state that Adolin won't show infatuation typical of young western people because of his upbringing, while purporting that Shallan's "apparently western" signs of infatuation are valid implies selective reasoning, which is poor grounds for discussion. If we are to assume that the romance works for Shallan and Adolin because it is recognizable, then that same feature must apply to both parties. If it does not apply to one it does not apply to either. If Adolin doesn't express infatuation like "we westerners" would expect, then that means we don't know what romance actually looks like on Roshar, and therefore your argument is undermined because we therefore can't establish that Adolin and Shallan love each other because we don't know what that would look like. I would argue that we do know what Rosharan love and romance look like. We have Dalinar and Navani. We have Sadeas and Ialai. These are both couples that were clearly in love given their highlights in the text, and both couples express that love very differently. When I look at Shallan and Kaladin, for example--I don't see "love". I also don't see "lust." I see two people who form a very intimate connection from which love could bloom. Shallan and Adolin, however, don't read as "love" to me either--Adolin just doesn't think of Shallan during his viewpoints, Adolin shows several signs that he's uncomfortable with her, and whenever things get deeply personal between them (which is rare), he deflects the discussion from that topic to something completely different or more surface-level. I believe he cares for her, but I don't believe he loves her. Shallan, on the other hand, I believe she might have come to love Adolin, but is so fragmented mentally that she can't realistically determine what she really wants. When two-thirds of a person lean one way and the other third has to force them to "fall in line," that doesn't scream to me that she loves Adolin, the phrase that comes to mind is "methinks she doth protest too much." Further, it appears that you expect total honesty from Shallan, and use the fact that she does not to excuse away any potential problems with Adolin's relationship from his standpoint--basically, you're placing the blame for any problems in the relationship on one person, and this is another fallacy. Relationships take two to work, and when there are problems, it's almost always because both people are at fault to some degree. And this is regardless of Shallan's Radiant status, her entire set up is making those around her trust her. That was the entire point of her going to the Shattered Plains in WoR, to convince the Kholins to trust her so that she could continue Jasnah's work. She didn't go for the marriage--that was a convenient side benefit that would help her family--she went to continue Jasnah's work posthumously. And considering how the Radiants were fairly universally reviled by Vorin culture, do you really blame her for hiding that fact? I don't. Adolin, it appears, didn't either, considering Radiance is something he's deeply envious of throughout Oathbringer. That said, Shallan does keep some things hidden from Adolin. For example, that she's committed parenticide. That's...actually a pretty big deal. If she truly was in love with him and had his best interests at heart (as the return is spoken so often for Adolin as manifestation that he is truly in love with her), then why wouldn't she tell him that? Him telling her he murdered Sadeas was the perfect opening for her to reveal that bit of information. And yet, she stays silent. The obvious reason here is that she's afraid of him levaing, but if she truly loved him, wouldn't she want him to know what he was getting himself into? But then again, if we don't know what infatuation truly looks like on Roshar, then we don't actually know if she loves him, or he her, and we are therefore back to ground zero. Now, back to the topic at hand (since for some reason any discussion of any member of ASK seems to involve the other two)... Concerning Kaladin's love life, I am going to start off by saying I wholeheartedly disagree with anyone who tries to use his depression as a reason why he can't have a relationship. If you've never experienced chronic depression, or you're not a therapist or psychiatrist who sees people who experience it regularly, then sit down and shut up because you have no idea what you are talking about. Depressed people need reasons to keep going. Often times, our reasons are other people, and it's feeling isolated and alone that causes us to commit suicide. Moving on from that, I really do think that narratively-wise, a relationship would be good for Kaladin. I don't think a casual, "drops into his lap" romance would benefit the plot--basically, you're taking a random NPC and making their entire purpose to be Kaladin's love interest, intermediate or final. That's narratively silly. So, no, I don't think Kaladin should settle down for some "nice darkeyed girl" or some "widow" who just needs a man to take care of her. I do think, however, that Kaladin needs someone who can show him the light. Who can say, "hey, you deserve happiness too. Maybe that's with me and maybe it's not, but you deserve happiness just as much as these other people." Because really, that's Kaladin's biggest problem. He blames himself for his brother's--and everyone who's died under his protection's--deaths. He doesn't need a woman who will sacrifice herself to save him--that action would just get twisted in his head as another failure, another reason why he was worthless. He had this woman who loved him and he let her die. What he needs, is someone who can show him that the opposite is true. That it's not his fault. That he has worth as a person. Take, for example, some of his last few lines at the battle of Thaylen City: There are three key phrases here that indicate that his final acceptance is not born out of "not loving" Shallan, but rather that he feels he was never really worth it anyway (in other words, that his acceptance is born out of his depression, rather than a lack of interest): 1) Some people could celebrate despite the scars...He merely wished he knew how they did it. 2) "You'll be all right." "I always am." 3) "He squinted down at Shallan and Adolin, and found that he couldn't be bitter. He didn't feel resignation either. Instead he felt...agreement? In quick succession, there are three alarming indicators of Kaladin's depression, and I'd like to expound on them one at a time. First, not understanding how people celebrate when things are bad. People with depression--especially long term, chronic depression--have difficulty seeing hope. Life becomes about just making it through the day, just taking one more step, just one more. The thought process becomes one of "I can't do anything right, but as long as I can get as long as I can just do this one thing, I'm not giving up." They become unable to see the joy or the good in things because they are so entrapped within their world of gray that even the bright lights are dimmed by comparison. Second, always being okay. Someone suffering from a chronic illness (be it depression or any other form of mental or physical illness) lives in a constant struggle. So long as they keep going, so long as they keep getting up when the fall or get knocked down, they are okay--because not being okay means admitting defeat. In the case of someone with depression (at least in the psychological mindset), not being okay means giving up. Accepting that life is just crap, or that they're too tired to continue on, or that their jaded worldview of their own lack of worth is the correct view, and that the world would either a) be better without them b ) wouldn't care if they disappeared, or c) isn't worth caring about any more. All three are very, very dangerous lines of thought, and the line "I'm always okay" is one I have said so often it's almost a mantra. "I'll be okay. Things aren't okay right now, but I'll be okay. I'm always okay, you don't have to worry about me." Third, and this is probably the most subjectively contentious, is that this "agreement" he feels is not one of a lack of love for Shallan, as he later expresses to Syl, but rather that this agreement is a confirmation of his own worldview. He isn't bitter, because he was never really worth the attention. He isn't resigned, because her choice isn't a burden. She simply chose, and by choosing, proved to him that he wasn't worth the effort. And this isn't an idea I'm pulling out of my rear, either--since Way of Kings, Kaladin has struggled with a sense of worth, of believing that he had value. You see this at it's worst when he nearly gives up and throws himself into the honorchasm, where he believes that there's no point to continuing. His worldview at that point is so warped, that for a second he even thinks that Syl thinks he should commit suicide by bringing him the blackbane leaf. This is somewhat averted at the end of Way of Kings, where this is his final line: As someone who struggles with depression, this line was so profound. For once, I felt that someone had finally managed to truly depict what depression was actually like. Kaladin had a victory, one he desperately needed. And for now, that's enough. But life isn't like a fairy tale. Life continues on past that victory, and depression wears away at the good feelings that victory brings with an insidious file. Eventually, Kaladin starts to revert to that same way of thinking, that same pattern of thought that life is a constant struggle and that he's just trying to get through. He has Bridge Four, but he's also responsible for them now and Dalinar is forcing him to place them at risk. Kaladin is a strong individual, and he keeps going, trying to do the right thing, but he does slip up again. The "wretch" returns in his cell. And that's one of the reasons why the Chasms scene with Shallan is so powerful for Kaladin! And I will let the scene speak for itself, because it is one of the most powerful scenes in all of Brandon's books. Now, to be clear, I think Kaladin fell for her a bit here. I also think, that this shows just why Kaladin needs someone in his life--not Bridge Four, someone who is intimate in his life, who knows his darkness and who can help him smile. Shallan does this, which is one reason I so adamantly support them together. However, for Kaladin it is not learning to accept sacrifice that is his next step, but rather I believe that his next step is to accept that, unlike Odium's insidious promise of taking the fault for wrongs committed, it's that Kaladin is not at fault for things that have happened--such as Tien's death. Such as the slaves that he gave hope to. Such as the hundreds of people whose lives he has made better just by virtue of being in them. Odium's promise is only a counterfeit mirror. So, yes. I think Kaladin does need a love interest. I think he needs the intimacy of a deep relationship, and when I speak of intimacy, I'm not talking about sex--I'm talking of the deep, emotional connection that two people can share, the connection that bonds people together and shows them that they are important. I think he needs someone who can remind him that he is not the sum of his failures, but rather that people love him and admire him for the strength he has. Bridge Four, for all their love--they can't accomplish this. They have their own families, their own lives. They are his friends, but what will benefit Kaladin the most is someone a hell of a lot closer than friend. Narratively, who could that be? I've already said that introducing a character for that purpose doesn't make sense from an authorial standpoint. It could perform the above, but it's a shallow way to do it. It works for side characters of less importance (see Breeze and Alrianne), but it doesn't work from a main character standpoint because, by default, that means that the author would have to spend time developing that relationship, turning that new character into someone more important to the plot by virtue of exposure. I've already indicated previously that I think Jasnah could be a good match for this process, and obviously I've encouraged the idea that a Shallan-Kaladin relationship is a good idea. That said, who else could it be? I don't know. I don't think it would be Tarah--Tarah is someone from the past, and Kaladin's blaming himself for past failures is a huge part of his depression. Bringing back someone who would only remind him of those failures wouldn't be a great step forward in my opinion. That said, I do think that bringing Tarah back for closure, much like Laral was brought back for closure, would be a good idea, especially if it catalyzes Kaladin into accepting a situation where he can progress with someone else. As for who else it could be? Well, I don't know yet. By virtue of his narrative importance, I'm inclined to think it's someone we've already seen on screen to this point--but Lift isn't mature enough, mentally or age-wise. So we'll have to wait and see, but I think a relationship (notice I say relationship, not necessarily romance) is a very important step for Kaladin.
  27. 10 points
  28. 10 points
    I write these words in Shard, for anything not set in metal cannot be trusted
  29. 10 points
    Ok, so bear with me on this one. Something has been bothering me, like many who read Oathbringer, ever since Odium said "We killed you." Like many Stormlight fans, I have been mentally (and literally) screaming "What do you mean by WE!" And anyway I've done some thinking, and I think that Unity, instead of a new Shard, as many have theorized, is actually and old Shard that used to live on Roshar. A Shard that was (presumably) killed by Odium and ((possibly Honor?)) (((Working together?))) There is a little possible evidence for this. In the death rattles, one of them goes like "Three of Sixteen ruled, now the broken one reigns" or something like that. Feel free to correct that. Anyway, the way that is worded makes it seem like Odium, the broken one, is not in that original three. Also, since we know there are 3 god-spren--the Storm dad, Nightwatcher, and the Sibling, that leads me to believe that there used to be 3 Shards other than Odium, since it doesn't make sense to me that a Knight Raidiant would bond to a spren of Odium, or that Cultivation or Honor would have two god-spren. That other Shard, Unity, was not liked by Honor or Cultivation or any other Shard. Which makes sense, because they might feel threatened by the fact that he might try to Unite the Shards back into Adonalsium or something. I'm thinking that the Cryptics might be spren of Unity, which is why nobody likes them. It also just makes sense, because math and lies don't really make sense as belonging to Honor or Cultivation, but I can see Unity liking the fact that math is a unifying principle of the universe or something like that. Also, it would make sense because the Dawn Cities are all math based, and they are linked the Uthirthiru in some way ( I think theres a line about the strata being similar? And they both are grown out of rock? Feel free to check that.) And we know that the sibling was related to the tower city as well. So, if the Sibling is a spren of Unity, it all works out. Honor or Cultivation (or both) wanted to get rid of him, but couldn't due to limitation based on their Shard Intent. Neither of them could kill Unity, so they invited Odium, knowing his violent reputation, to come on over to Roshar so he could take care of Unity. That also explains why Odium was allowed onto Roshar on the first place, because I feel like two Shards working together could have blocked him from coming there, if they so wished. Anyway, Odium splintered Unity (possibly with help from one or more of the other Shards) and decided to stay. Eventually, he also splintered Honor, and Cultivation went into hiding. A part of Unity survived, and may have been that voice that's been guiding Dalinar since Book One. That voice seems really distinct from the Stormfather, and I think he once even said so in Oathbringer that he wasn't talking when Dalinar heard the "Unite them" voice. The light that Dalinar feels at the end of books Two and Three may also be the effects of Unity. Dalinar was able to briefly hold whatever is left of Unity, which allowed him to summon the Perpendicularity and all that fun stuff at the end of Book 3. I think that as the books progress, we will only keep on seeing how Unity is actually separate, and wants to be revived. Some odd bits: The splintering might have been the Scouring of Aimia. The Aimians that are a bunch of cremlings seem like something that Unity might have created or liked (since it's a bunch of cremlings unified into one creature) and he might have lived in Aimia. The Unmade might be corrupted Splinters of Unity. I don't think that Odium could have nine relatively large spren of himself and still remain as powerful as he is, so I think he corrupted the Splinters of Unity after he killed him, and those became the Unmade. Obviously, it isn't a perfect theory. And if you've made it to the bottom, congrats on somehow getting through all my disorganized thoughts. Anyway, I want to know what you think, so please feel free to share your thoughts on my theory!
  30. 10 points
    Ati enters the beyond, and meets Leras. L: "Did you meet Kelsier?" A: "Yep." L: "He punch you in the face?" A: "Uh-huh." L: "...Ten bucks on Rayse being next." A: "You're on."
  31. 10 points
  32. 10 points
    I'm a bit confused here. I'm also a huge Dalinar fan, although I could see him living or dying depending on what happens. But even if he does die, that's not going to upset me, because I'm sure it will be done well. Killing a character isn't the same as wasting them. But you said that you expected him to die from the start, so why does what you've taken to be implicit confirmation of that bother you so much? I don't agree that Sanderson confirmed anything about Dalinar's fate, but if that's what you think he said, I don't think I would be any more than mildly irritated for losing the element of surprise. And is Dalinar the only character you care about? I certainly think he's one of the best, but I can't imagine reading books of that size and only liking one person, especially considering that he wasn't the central character in the first two books. Either way, I'm sure that if the conclusion to Dalinar's arc includes his death, my fondness for him will leave me even more satisfied with it. A story doesn't have to go the way I want, or to necessarily have a traditionally happy ending, for it to be good.
  33. 10 points
  34. 9 points
    Have you heard the good news? Orlok loves you, and he wants you to love and know him. He offers you his peace and joy under his rule as benevolent dictator. Those who recognize his rule shall receive his blessings, as indeed I have. If Orlok offers so much, why don't people take it? The Problem with Disbelievers Everybody is born with a tendency towards freedom. They seek to reject Orlok in fears that serving him will reduce the freedom they cherish so much in life. What they don't realize is that nobody is free, not as long as they remain slave to the meat-impulses left in their brain that are the leftovers of thousands of years of the evolutionary process. It affects all aspects of life, a constant temptation and scourge. Orlok Tsubodi has transcended these urges, and can teach you to overcome them too. Embrace him as a leader, recognize that his decision-making process is free of these taints, and you too shall be freed from those base emotions that control you. Accept him as supreme leader and you too shall know freedom. PM me today if you wish to learn more about receiving the blessings of a mod.
  35. 9 points
    I'm mainly placing this in cosmere because of the WoB that needs to be included. So to start with, we've been given this WoB on the progression of technology in Scadrial. Spoilered for length, followed by the relevant portion. So the we had step one of the Metallic Arts, which was just using the powers themselves. We're in the process of seeing step 2, which is technology that relies on the interaction of those powers in the form of Medallions and the bands... Which I happen to believe relies heavily on Hemalurgy But step 3... Step 3 is where things get interesting... And also where I think things take a decidedly dark turn. Allomancy has diluted over time, and the genes have gotten weaker, but this has reached a saturation point. At least it has in the north... The south is decidedly weaker. There's an important point about allomancy in the south though, just like allomancy prior to Rashek. So what happens when the north and south mix heavily and the allomantic genes dilute further? All scadrians, power or not, have the seeds of the Metallic Arts in them... And understanding of Hemalurgy, now that it's being used is going to grow, whether Harmony approves or not. So what I think is going to happen, is that knowledge of the Metallic Arts is going to increase to the point that Hemalurgy can take those seeds from anyone. A single person obviously isn't going to grant you anything usable... But they aren't limited to a single person. People are fantastic at rationalization, and giving up a piece of yourself on your deathbed to better the lives of everyone is an easy thing to rationalize. Especially if that gift you're giving is what enables all of the fantastic technology that enables FTL travel, and who knows what other amazing and miraculous feats. So in short I think that the basis of technology in the future of Scadrial is going to rely on Hemalurgy, and it will be societally ingrained and accepted by the majority, and adamantly protested and opposed by others. Era 4 scadrian technology will be the Cosmere's Soylent Green. Edit: just going to insert this post here to make things more clear. Let me try to clarify a bit, because I think that as the genes dilute further, and the technology progresses, the magics generally are going to be much less things that people are born with, and much more focused on the technology that will become pervasive. I think it will be known that the "gift" that people give up is the basis for the proliferation of the technologies that allow everyone to live in a world of wonders. So I don't think it will be an attempt to assuage guilt. They'll be taught that it's just the way that things are and it will be accepted because if there is one thing that humans are good at, it's rationalizing away the things we should question. I don't think the majority will believe there's anything to feel guilty about.
  36. 9 points
    More importantly- Why is Hoid?
  37. 9 points
    The ten orders when they stumble upon a cat: Windrunner: Protects the cat from dogs and other dangers. Is now known among the locals as “Catman”. Skybreaker: Calls pest control, the local shelters, and all potential cat owning families within the area. Willshaper: Makes the cat a loyal companion to protect them on their adventures. Names the cat “Dirt” cause why not. Elsecaller: Uses the cat to study the effects of caffeine on the brain. This has happened several times before, so many cats now roam the city attacking all who smell of coffee. Truthwatcher: Really wants to pet the kitty, but foresees that the cat will scratch them if they do so. Sometimes still pets the kitty anyways. Bondsmith: Unites all of the cats together to form Voltron. Stonesmith: Has a soft spot for cats, but is terrified of them. Stands rigidly still as the cat rubs against their legs. Edgedancer: Adopts the cat. Already has adopted dozens of forgotten cats. Dustbringer: Harnesses the sheer destructive power of the cat to knock things off shelves everywhere. Lightweaver: Lightweaves the cat into a fierce lion and claims that they rescued it from poachers.
  38. 9 points
    Because @Kidpen is the only one who submitted a name... congrats, Kid! ~~~ I have some important news. It’s sad, but it’s also a good thing— for everyone. IRL, a lot has been going on lately, and I won’t be able to spend much time on the Shard. Therefore, it is not ideal for anyone if I continue to run the tournament. Starting in this upcoming round, @Herowannabe and @John203 will be taking over! I’m so grateful for both of them. It’s been a lot of fun to run this, and I’m so glad that I got this opportunity. Hopefully I’ll be back soon... as a contestant.
  39. 9 points
  40. 9 points
    Wow, that was a rollercoaster of a read. I applaud the mods for handling it as well as they did. It really comes down to being a good RPer and using common curtesy. I’m going to get a little real here, but I think this needs to be said. I am far from the most active member, but by my reckoning I am the 2nd most senior contributer to the Alleyverse. This all began with a guild that @Voidus started around four and a half YEARS ago, before many of you were even members on the Shard. I’ve been a part of the DA since the 2nd week of its existence. I don’t say that to blow my own bugle, but to put my investment into perspective, and Voidus even more so. He has kept the guild going for a long time. I’ve posted with varying levels of frequency, as have many others who contributed to growing and changing the thread. We went from the smallest guild to a major one, and we began to see other guilds form purely to oppose us. Some merely opposed our methods or ideology and sought to present an alternative, while others actively sought to defeat us. The guild subforum changed as a result. But what made us different was that we persisted. There was a time when Voidus and I were the only ones keeping the thread alive with random intermittent posts that no one responded to. But then things began to change. New members began to join, new guilds began arising to oppose our renewed activity. Voidus became a mod, at least in part I must assume,in recognition of all the work that he put in across the various subforums. Next thing I knew, we had received our own subforum and an rp universe, all centered around the Dark Alley. I didn’t post as much, the new setting wasn’t quite the same and my life had become increasingly busy with irl stuff, not limited to but including getting a degree and getting married. But I knew that even though the DA was changing, it was the continuation of something we had created that had entertained and intrigued others, that they could enjoy contributing to. And Voidus was putting in more work than ever, curating and moderating a sub community within the larger Shard itself. Other mods have stepped up to share some of the responsibilities and contribute as well, and they’ve done a fine job of it. It’s o small feat to moderate a subforum of this size, with as many threads and members as we have. So when I see comments about Voidus being tyrannical or complain about decisions he and the mods have made, I am mildly irked. Without Voidus this wouldn’t exist, and that’s a fact, though he is too humble to ever say so. This is the ALLEYverse. In my opinion Voidus could make a post one day stating that his character had wiped out everyone and it would be plausible. But, he would never do that because Voidus cares about good RP. He cares about the community he’s had such a huge part in creating.He wants everyone to enjoy themselves and the world(s) that have and are being created. The other mods as well care about this. @MacThorstenson played a huge part in the revitalization of the thread and has made huge contributions to the current lore and world building. All of you have done something to contribute to the ever growing Alleyverse, and that’s awesome! But let’s keep in mind the parameters we accept by choosing to contribute to this subforum. The Guilds and Clubs subforum still exists. If you feel like this isn’t the right setting for the rp you want, you are free to relocate plots, settings,and characters there or to the other rp locations on the Shard. I’m not trying to scare anyone away or tell them to leave, I just want to remind people that there are other perfectly viable options here on the Shard, many with the same people in this subforum. But if you want to stick around, let’s do our best to build something great, not just win against others. The Dark Alley has out lasted opposition from without and within. The Alleyverse will do the same. The mods aren’t trying to ruin your fun, but rather make sure that as many people as possible can have fun, rather than a select few. So be courteous to the mods who keep things running smoothly, and to the players who continue to grow this ever changing world. As far as forums go, these mods are pretty flexible and take a lot of input from non-mods. So let me applaud our hard working moderators for their gargantuan patience. And let me thank all of you for helping the weird sub community we created continue to grow and change. After all, this has always been... For Science! TL;DR I’m old! Stop griping at Voidus, he made this. Stop griping at the mods, they’re trying to help you. Have fun, and try to make sure others are having fun too. For Science!
  41. 9 points
    An idea occurred to me recently, coalescing from a bunch of scattered bits of information that we know about Amia. It's by no means definitive, but I think you could arrange the facts we have into this overall picture, if you fill in enough gaps with (reasonable?) assumptions. Consider: We know Amia was a rich land and the home of an Oathgate, It had many unique flora and fauna that were unusually Investiture-active, including Larkyin (investiture-drinkers), lanceryn (some of the largest known greatshells of the time), and two species of Sentient pseudo-human. It's capital (Akinah) was built on the same resonant Cymatics principle that several other cities were, and (if Im not mistaken) all Oathgate cities are so far. It was believed that Amia was the historic source of Soulcasters It has a vast network of underground/Underwater tunnels Some time ago (maybe a few Centuries) Amia was "Scoured", causing it's ecosystem to collapse It is an in-world theory (by Hessi) that the Unmade Dai-Gonarthis, the Black Fisher, is responsible for the Scouring of Amia. Almost nothing else is known about this Unmade It's capital city (Akinah) is now surrounded by a Soulcast barrier, and is actively guarded by at least one Dysian Aimian. Shadesmar swaps the landscape above and below the waterline, so Akinah should have huge, twisting stone arcs and spires rising from an inland Bead-Sea corresponding to the Island's Underwater cave system, and my bet is that they will also follow some Cymatic pattern. Then we have Mandras (Mandrae?): Spren use Mandrae to pull Shademar boats through a giant bead Sea to navigate between spren Cities. Mandrae are the Spren responsible for reducing Greatshell's weight sufficiently to survive to the immense size they can reach. Mandrae do not survive for long away from human population centers When I add those two pools of Information together, I get a Theory: The Scouring of Amia was actually the King Fisher (or some other agent of Odium) laying Siege on the Spren City on the other side of Akinah. I dont know which came first: either the Physical Realm Population was destroyed to prevent a Mandra population from surviving, or the Mandra population was destroyed directly which caused the collapse of the Greatshell ecosystem on Amia, but either way the end result would have been a Spren city without access to Mandra-based transportation, and left limited to overland travel in the ocean-adjacent regions. If we add a few other bits of data to the mix, a possibility emerges. Fabrials work by attracting an imprisoning a Spren that is sympathetic to the nature/use of the Fabrial in question Cryptics are Spren representing the underlying "Truths" of the cosmere. Cryptics only have a single City, unlike other sapient Spren races, and have no desire to expand. What If: The Other Side of Akinah is the Cryptic Home City. What If Cryptics (or maybe some lesser-spren relative) are the Spren inside Soulcasters (which are some of the most potent weapons in the cosmere), and operate by Understanding a Bead-soul's Truth and then changing it with a potent Lie. And What If the Black Fisher is an UnMade that is largely unknown to humans because he/she/they do not operate in the Physcial Realm but rather in the Shadesmar Bead-oceans, antagonistic to the Spren population centers directly. That was the result a lot of different idea's coming together, and probably came out less coherent than it seemed in my head. What do you all think?
  42. 9 points
    So I'm on an OB re-read (I ran out of other books to read, so here we are), and I'm at the moment when Azure, Kal, Shallan and Adolin are in Shadesmar on the boat. Shallan is contemplating her drawings and how her multiple selves--whom she created to help her be *less* broken--are, themselves, broken. Adolin approaches her and the following occurs: Which is then followed by: After he shares his secret to her re: Sadeas: So, I read that again, and in depth this time, and I really felt the "little moment of love" in that section. I think Brandon is really good at writing those little seemingly mundane moments of relationships that actually make a relationship work. Like in a marriage, the importance of someone just listening when you complain, and not trying to fix everything. Or of a small hug when you're feeling alone. Many novels do the "sweeping romance" really well, but don't do the mundane well at all. It just made me realize how well the "little things" work in OB. During an exceptionally cold winter, it just gave me a little warmth. :-) So I thought--what little moments of love have stood out to you in OB (or in SA in general)? So many relationships to choose from...
  43. 9 points
    I'm sorry, but since the beginning, you've been stating your opinion as fact. You have always been welcome to your opinion, but you've stated it definitively as "this is what that means, there's no other possible interpretation." You've been using the WoBs you have to tell people that Brandon told you Dalinar will die and that he will have no role in later books. This entire thread has been trying to show you that your interpretation is just that, your interpretation, and that you've been putting way more into those WoBs than Brandon put there. Your interpretation may be right, it may be wrong. But it's yours, not everyone else's, and definitely not what Brandon said or intended.
  44. 9 points
    Little known behind-the-scenes fact: Dilaf is actually an acronym for: Don't I Love Attacking Fjordell's enemies, the heretics have been allowed to blight the presence of our fair Sel for too long; for no longer shall we tolerate it! Their nation and wretched blasphemous city must burn, the charred remnants washed away in a river of blood! Devoted to my cause am I--devoted to Fjordell's dominion! With that knowledge, Elantrians, despair and die!
  45. 8 points
    It's not Odium or Everstorms, oh no. It suddenly occurred to me that there are no dogs or cats on Roshar. (NO axehounds do NOT count). No pup pups! No mew mews! No wonder all our characters are so stressed out. Kaladin doesn't need a hug, he needs a husky! Seriously, he's such as dog person. And don't act like Jasnah wouldn't admire a cat. So when they find themselves depressed, confused, burdened, and/or isolated, they can at least get a wet nose boop and a demand to be petted to distract them. I demand the worldhoppers address this problem immediately. I can't be that hard to transport animals through interplanetary space dimensions, right? i mean horses made it through. In fact let's take this to the next level. This is the plan to defeat Odium. We will cover him in golden retriever puppies. You can't have that much hatred when you're covered in puppies.
  46. 8 points
    More like: Who is Hoid? - by Trell Who is Trell? - By Hoid Where are the pancakes? - By Lift
  47. 8 points
    My last game of SE for two years? An overly meta game? People playing as other people? Eliminators being the bad guys? Sign me up. I'll be @A Joe in the Bush (the @sign must be used when addressing me), someone who has played SE for fun, and one time made a server on an entirely separate website designed for connection, because this one wasn't good enough for him.
  48. 8 points
    You know you're a Sanderfan when you see this book and think "really? A Mistborn knockoff? Come on, have some respect!"
  49. 8 points
    So you've fallen for the same mask he puts forward as everyone in world. There's a reason that he gets Shallan. He hides too. Edit: to clarify. Adolin doesn't shift gears and drop the bravado because of rising jealousy... It happens well before that should even be on his radar. Adolin drops that act, both with Shallan (after their conversation about bowel movements in plate) and Kaladin (after the duel) when he's allowed them to get inside. Once they become people who he doesn't have to play the role of what's expected. Or, simply put, When he actually starts letting them get to know him.
  50. 8 points
    The first WoB you cite is from 2010. It is clear at this stage that Kaladin is not getting a second book. Additionally, a character can be important for the series and still die... I can sure think of an example in Mistborn that fits the bill. The second WoB you cite does not say that only one of them will die: That's just... not what it says. It definitely, 100% does not say that only one character dies. This is objectively not what it says. Maybe there's another one, but it certainly isn't these, and I don't remember anything like that. I find your interpretations of these WoBs to be critically flawed. Did anyone think Odium was going to be stopped book five? I don't really think that's a spoiler, but it's fine if you feel differently. To me, that's like saying there will be Surges in the back five. EDIT: One more thing. He did not say this. You are interpreting it. He tried to correct you in the second PM. This statement here is not what he said. Please stop stating things as fact when they are definitively not facts.
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