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  1. Hello! It's been forever since I've actually done a Sanderson Elimination game. I was thinking about it since I just finished Rhythm of War. (I was late since it came out on my mission). If there's room for a rusty return player, I'd love to join! I also haven't read Alcatraz vs the Evil Librarians, but this looks like fun! May the World welcome: Theonandrimicrus Hathor the Third... also known as Theo.
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  2. This is a theory I've been chewing on for a while but haven't wanted to post because I haven't had the time to put all the pieces together. Anyway, here goes: SPOILERS THROUGH RHYTHM OF WAR (I think) TLDR Ba Ado Mishram was the child of Honor and Cultivation, the common ground between singers and spren. The Heralds communed with her to some degree, perhaps tricking or trading with her, and she helped them access the Surges. This violated the agreement between the human refugees that bound them in Shinovar and forbade them to use the Surges (in the eyes of the singers at least) - and was the initial spren betrayal the Fused speak of. In retaliation, the singers went to Odium and became the Fused, sparking the first Desolation. The Heralds went to Honor and forged the Oathpact to enable them to fight the Fused and seal them in Braize. In the course of the war, the Fused were able to help Odium Unmake Mishram into Ba Ado Mishram. This is the singer betrayal the spren speak of, which led to many spren mimicing what Honor had done with the Heralds, and the beginning of the Radiants. Cultivation and Honor then had another child, this time made to represent the common ground between humans and spren - Mishram's younger Sibling. A lot of the evidence I've based this on from the text is drawn from the two in-world myths in the title, 'Queen Tsa and the cleverest of the three moons' and 'The Girl Who Looked Up". If you want to get into the weeds, keep reading. Myths of Roshar Firstly, we need to be establish the connection between these two tales, so let's look at what both of the myths are about: The tale of Queen Tsa is a story about a woman who escapes the bounds set forth for her and her people by travelling to the heavens. She is aware that going to the heavens is forbidden for mortals, but still she ascends (by tricking the green moon Mishim to trade places with her). She eventually returns to the world, however she is carrying the child of Nomon, the blue moon god of her people. Her son bears the "mantle of the heavens" and she believes he will lead her people to glory. The tale of The Girl Who Looked Up is a story about a young woman who escapes the bounds set forth for her and her people by travelling beyond the Wall. She is aware that going beyond the Wall is forbidden for her people, but still she ascends. She looks over the wall to and sees God's Light. She returns to the world, but first she steals a piece of God's Own Light and flees back home with it. As a result, the storms start coming - but her people now have Light. My conclusion is probably quite obvious by now... Queen Tsa is The Girl Who Looked Up Or, at least, the two represent the same person/people. While Queen Tsa may be an actual historical figure in Roshar, it's important to remember that Hoid - ancient, magical Hoid - is the one telling the tale.. And he's not above exercising artistic license when he wants to. Hoid is also the teller of the second iteration of the Girl Who Looked Up not long after this scene, the version which includes the Girl's people having "light renewed." (Oathbringer, 82) If that doesn't convince you, here are a few of the symbolic ties between Tsa and the Girl. i) Looking Up Like the Girl, Tsa quite literally spends her story looking up at the heavens and hatching her scheme to get there: she is literally a girl who looks up. Both Tsa and the Girl are warned against their quest: The Queen herself says that all know the eyes of mortals would burn at the sights, their minds run mad at the language of the heavens. The Girl questions several people on the Wall and is told: "There is a wall. Do not go beyond it, or you shall die.” (Oathbringer, 25) Both the Girl and the Queen reach for the sky: The Girl by climbing the "high, terrible wall stretching toward the moons. Blocking the sky..." (Oathbringer, 25) The Queen by designing "high towers for her city, built to reach ever upward, grasping toward the sky." (Oathbringer, 67) ii) Turning White In the myth of the Girl at the point at which she starts climbing the Wall, Shallan notices that the Girl's hair is white, and is unsure if it had always been. Brandon has stated there is some significance to this. In the story of Tsa, the Queen is represented in Hoid's smoke by a white tower while Mishim is represented by a green moon. Once they trade places however, Shallan notes that: "the moon had become white, and the single straight tower he made by swiping up in the smoke was instead pale green." (Oathbringer, 67) In both stories, the transition/appearance of white occurs after the protagonist sets out on their journey to the other side. iii) The Red Scarf In the myth of the Girl, we are told: "a vibrant red scarf grew around the girl’s neck, twin tails extending far behind her". (Oathbringer, 25) The significance of this scarf is hard to see until you look into the history of the scarf itself. It originated in Ancient Egypt and was worn by Queen Nefertiti. I think this is meant to draw yet another symbolic connection between the Girl and Queen Tsa, as she too wears the mantle of a Queen. As for the colour red, more on that later.* Lastly, when Shallan finds Hoid telling the story of Queen Tsa and the three moons in Kholinar: "He was dressed, strangely, in a soldier’s uniform—Sadeas’s livery, with the coat unbuttoned and a colored scarf around his neck." (Oathbringer, 67) iv) The Crime Both the Girl and the Queen commit a crime (or at least something that is viewed in world as morally wrong) once they reach the other side. The Queen breaks her promise not to look upon the sights of the heavens: "Tsa! Your word is broken!" (Oathbringer, 67) The Girl steals a piece of God's Light. v) The Light Both return home with a keepsake from the other side. The Girl returns to her village with the piece of God's Light, bringing with her the storms. We are told that the Light once taken could not be put back and that "each storm brought light renewed" and [of her people] "now they could see". In other words, her people now had Light eternal thanks to her gambit. The Queen carries a child of Nomon, one of the gods, who bears the "mantle of the heavens". The story elaborates that all descendants of this son bear this mantle (the blue skin) - or you could say all of her people now bear the mantle of the heavens. Symbolically, heaven's mantle usually refers to the stars themselves - or starlight. So all of her people now bear the Light of the heavens after her gambit. So if these two stories are about the same characters and events, what are they about? Who do they represent? We know of the history of the human refugees led by the Heralds, who were bound in Shinovar and likely warned against tampering with the Surges after the destruction of their home planet. We know that the First Desolation was sparked by some sort of betrayal by the spren involving the humans: "The betrayal of spren has brought us here/They gave their Surges to human heirs" (Words of Radiance, 28) Who is Queen Tsa/The Girl representing? What about Mishim, God's Light, the child of Nomon and Tsa? The Heralds & Ba Ado Mishram 1) The people of Tsa's kingdom = the people of the village = human refugees from Ashyn The Village and the world are both the strictly designated areas of the denizens of Tsa and the Girl's world, and they are forbidden to leave it. From what we know of the original Ashynite refugees, this is exactly what Shinovar was to them: humans were supposed to stay in the grassy, earth-like area designed for them - to this day the Shin curse stonewalkers ( the rest of Roshar is basically stone and crem). Another parallel is found in the fact that the people in the Girl's village lived in darkness - there was no Light. In much the same way, Shinovar is known to have no spren, and the ancient human refugees had no bonds to Rosharan spren - no Investiture - no Light. However, this story is not purely a physical one - much like the history of Roshar was not. 2) The City/World = The Village = Shinovar/the minds of men Queen Tsa's home city/the whole world parallels the village the girl lives in: the Village is described as being in the shadow of the great Wall - one villager says it's not a wall: "That’s just the way the sky is over there.” (Oathbringer, 25) The Wall is so huge the villagers almost seem to live beneath it, in the same way Tsa and her people live literally below the heavens. And while the humans did literally expand out of Shinovar into Roshar, but the rest of the tale - the theft of Light, the mantle of the heavens - doesn't quite add up with any purely physical objects in Rosharan history. We have known since Words of Radiance that the ancient singers felt the spren had betrayed them. This has been expanded on in subsequent books as we know the singers manipulated the Surges - using Stoneshaping etc. - and had some sort of bonds with the spren like all native Rosharan life. That ancient betrayal that sparked the war, and a cycle of betrayals. The spren betrayal, in the listener's words was that: "They gave their Surges to human heirs" (Words of Radiance, 28) We also know how spren bonds work now - human minds are linked to spren, which pulls them into the Physical Realm through the Connection. It is a meeting of minds that grants spren presence in the Physical Realm in exchange for granting humans Surges. This is why I believe the darkness the people of the Girl's village is representative of Cognitive darkness - the humans had no access to the Surges, to Stormlight - they lived in darkness. For further evidence we can look to the singers in this tale. 3) The creatures who lived beyond the Wall = the singers "She climbed down the steps...she hid among the creatures who lived on this side." (Oathbringer, 82) There are creatures who live beyond the wall, in "God's Light" (Oathbringer, 82) unlike the Girl's people living in the land of shadows. On the Physical level, this is accurate with what we know of Rosharan history - the ancient singers lived in Roshar, filled with spren and Investiture while the humans lived in earth-like Shinovar. It also tallies with what we've heard about the bonds between men and spren vs those between singers and spren.These realms are meant to represent the minds of men and singers respectively: at this point in time, humans had no Connection to the spren of Roshar - there was a barrier between their minds and those of the spren. Singers however, cannot provide what the humans can: The spren betrayed us, it's often felt. Our minds are too close to their realm That gives us our forms, but more is then Demanded by the smartest spren, We can't provide what the humans lend, Though broth are we, their meat is men (Words of Radiance, 32) According to this, the ancient spren betrayed the singers because singers minds were too close to their realm (Shadesmar), and the sapient spren desired more: human connection. Much as we are told that Mishim "doesn’t want to be in the sky" and longs to come down among mortals and do all the things "she had watched from afar" (Oathbringer, 67). As for Nomon, in the tale we see how Mishim's brothers enjoy the company of Tsa, in a way they never seemed to with Mishim. This seems to parallel the sentiments of the singers as they realise the humans - like Queen Tsa - have more to offer the spren than they do; this suggests Nomon himself represents the spren. As for Mishim...more on that later/ 4) Queen Tsa = The Girl Who Looked Up = The Heralds Now, if the setting is ancient Shinovar then while the Girl/Queen of the people could represent an actual queen, she more likely represents the leaders of the humans living in Shinovar: the Heralds. After all, it is the Girl who is responsible for stealing the piece of God's Light, the coming of the storms, and "tearing down the wall" (Oathbringer, 25). In the RoW Nale visions, we see what is presumably the forging of the Oathpact (as it is the earliest vision). In it, Jezrien and Ishar invite Nale to take some charge, a duty that he accepts with honor - the Oathpact. Jezrien claims, "We will fix what we've broken." (Rhythm of War, 47) This seems to indicate that Jezrien and Ishar - at least - were responsible for starting the Desolations. We also infer that Nale was opposed to whatever Jezrien and Ishar did that "broke" something and started the war, as Jezrien claims he was correct all along. Let's combine this with what we already know about the start of the Desolations: 1) The spren betrayed the singers by giving their "Surges to human heirs" 2) The humans betrayed the singers in some way involving the spren "they were a people forlorn, without a home...their betrayal extended even to our gods: to spren, stone, and wind." (Oathbringer, 111) 3) Some of the Heralds were responsible for breaking something, which started the Desolations So what did the ancient humans break? We know the Heralds were their leaders, and that squares with Jezrien's reference to what they broke when talking to Nale. In the story of the Girl, she steals a piece of God's Light. This leads to the breaking of the wall, the barrier between the land of shadows and the land of Light - and the Storms come as a punishment. It seems that the Heralds - the ancient humans - violated their agreement, they broke their word. "Tsa! Your word is broken!" (Oathbringer, 67) The Heralds broke their word by (in the eyes of the Fused) stealing the spren/Surges, breaking the barrier between men and spren and, which led to the Desolations. The Girl crossed the barrier between lands and stole Light, which led to the Wall being torn down and the Storms coming as punishment. After breaking their Pact with the singers, Jezrien and Ishar hatched a plan to forge a new one that might fix what they had ruined.= 5) The Sky = Beyond the Wall = Roshar/Shadesmar It follows that the Heavens and the land beyond the Wall are one and the same. The land beyond the Wall is illuminated by God's Light, which seems to tally with the heavens which are lit by starlight - and also the presence of the gods Nomon and Salas. 6) Tsa & Nomon's Child = The Piece of God's Light = Surges Both the Girl and the Queen journey to the 'Other Side' and return with something: the Girl steals a piece of God's Light, which she brings to her people providing Light eternal - "each storm brought light renewed, for it could never be put back, now that it had been taken." (Oathbringer, 82) The Queen returns to her land pregnant with Nomon's child, and gives birth to a son who will lead her people. He is said to bear "the mantle of the heavens" meaning the blue skin of Natanatan which mimics the blue light of Nomon's moon. In the story, Nomon is a god however; that blue light is God's light, one that his son carries. We are also told that "that is why to this day, the people of Natanatan have skin of a faintly blue shade.": Queen Tsa's people bear God's Light to this day. The key difference between the two tales is how this is obtained: the Girl steals a piece of God's Light, whereas Nomon seems to have delighted in Tsa's company - that was no theft. The only victim in the tale of Tsa is Mishim; she is the one who is tricked by Queen Tsa, she is the one who experiences "Loss." (Oathbringer, 67) She experiences the loss of "Nomon's kindness" (Oathbringer, 67): the loss of her bond with her brothers. To experience loss is to have something taken away: the Girl steals God's Light; the Queen steals God's affection. So what is God's Light? What is this thing that The Girl/Tsa/the Heralds stole? It's pretty clear, given what Light is in the real (cosmere) world - Investiture. Bonds. Or, as a Rosharan might say, Surges. These two stories - taken as one tale about the Heralds - rhyme very well with in-world canon we know, which I alluded to earlier. Let's take the two stories, strip them of their figurative facade and see what we're left with. To recap: Queen Tsa = The Girl = The Heralds The World = The Village/land of shadows = Shinovar/minds of men creatures beyond the wall = ? = singers Nomon = God's Light = spren Nomon's son = Piece of God's Light = Surges Storms = Desolations Mishim = ? = ? So, the Heralds lived and led the humans Shinovar, and were strictly forbidden from venturing beyond Shinovar and their minds from Connecting with spren and accessing Surges. Despite the warnings of some of their peers, the Heralds decide to breach the barrier between men and spren. They trick Mishim (?) into helping them access the Surges. Mishim feels betrayed by the Heralds, and claims that they broke their word. The damage is done, and the barrier between the minds of men and the spren is broken. The Desolations start as a result of this. However, every Desolation brings back the light renewed* (in this case I believe it alludes to the fact that the Heralds return with each Desolation/storm). So who is Mishim in the cosmere, this mysterious being that allowed the Heralds to access the Surges (a piece of God's Light)? Where is she in the story of the Girl Who Looked Up? We know that Mishim was the victim of loss in Tsa's story, so we simply have to look for a similar victim in the Girl's story: who did the Girl steal God's Light from? There are 2 answers to that question. 1) God's Light ("girl in the scarves slipping up to the grand source of light, then breaking off a little piece in her hand." (Oathbringer, 82) 2) The creatures beyond the Wall (aka the singers) The second is the easiest to comprehend: it fits with what we know of the lore. The Heralds/ancient humans stole (in the eyes of the singers) the Surges/Connection to Rosharan spren from the ancient singers - this is the betrayal that started the Desolations. It also works if we insert the singers in the tale of Tsa: Mishim (the singer) is jealous of Tsa's connection with her brothers Nomon and Salas: "‘Feasting?’ Her siblings had never feasted with her before." (Oathbringer, 67) "‘Songs?’ Her siblings had never sung with her before." (Oathbringer, 67) "Mishim...now knew another mortal emotion. Loss." (Oathbringer, 67) Mishim is jealous of and betrayed by the human Tsa's Connection with Nomon in the same way the singers are jealous of and betrayed by humans Connection to spren, whose "meat is men" . Tsa offers Nomon companionship that Mishim cannot, singing and feasting with him - just as the humans offer what the singers cannot: "We can't provide what the humans lend" (Words of Radiance, 32) The first is a bit murkier, but also makes sense with cosmere mechanics. You might ask how you can steal from a being made of God's Light, or how a piece of that being could grant one Surges. But we do have sapient beings made of 'God's Light' (Investiture), with whom a Connection can grant access to Surgebinding: spren. How can these two answers coexist? How can the Heralds have taken the Connection to Rosharan spren from a spren and taken it from the singers? Simple: Mishim was a spren who represented the Connection between the singers and the spren. We know that such spren can exist from Rhythm of War, because that is exactly what the Sibling is: "My song...the common ground, the Sibling said. Between humans and spren. That is … that is why I was created." (Rhythm of War, 110) The Sibling is the child of Honor and Cultivation, made to be the emulsifier between humans and spren. If Honor and Cultivation created such a being for the humans, is it not possible that they did the same aeons before? Either that, or they found the spren already in existence - the singers being native to Roshar, it is possible that such a spren arose naturally. If it didn't, if this mysterious elder spren was indeed born of Honor and Cultivation, then the spren made by Honor and Cultivation to bridge the gap between spren and humans is not the only child - he is the Sibling. A last piece of evidence - the chapter with the tale of Queen Tsa is titled 'Mishim' and begins with this epigraph: "This generation has had only one Bondsmith, and some blame the divisions among us upon this fact." (Oathbringer, 67) We know now that this was the Sibling's Bondsmith, which seems appropriate for a chapter revealing lore about the character I believe to have been its predecessor. Let's turn back to the tale of Tsa and apply this new knowledge: at the end of the story, Mishim hears a new song which she recognises as the song of Nomon's child with Tsa . She feels loss - a spren that represents the Connection between singers and spren experiences the loss of light at the hands of the humans. This works perfectly as symbolism for the singers ancient loss and betrayal. However, it still leaves us with one final question: who is/was Mishim? Who was this great spren of Connection, that represented the Connection of the minds of the entire singer species to the spren? Hmmmm.... "Ba-Ado-Mishram...Connected herself to the entire singer species." (Rhythm of War, 73) "Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people," (Oathbringer, 80) 7) Mishram = Mishim The first and most obvious connection here is the similarity of the two names Mishim/Mishram. Beyond this, let's look at everything we know about Ba Ado Mishram from the books: i) The Heralds know Ba Ado Mishram personally: "please find Mishram and release her. Not just for her own good. For the good of all spren." (Rhythm of War, 97) NOTE: Kalak calls her 'Mishram', not 'Ba Ado Mishram' as the Fused, Sja-Anat and other Voidspren do. ii) She is consistently described as crafty/cunning/intelligent: "Ba-Ado-Mishram, who had granted forms to the singers during the False Desolation—were crafty and conniving." (Rhythm of War, I-2) "She is said to have been keen of mind, a highprincess among the enemy forces" (Oathbringer, 106) iii) She is trapped in a prison (the gem) and presumably wants to escape. Now lets look at how Mishim, the green moon is described: i) "the third moon is the cleverest." (Oathbringer, 35) ii) "she doesn’t want to be in the sky, sir. She wants to escape." (Oathbringer, 35) iii) "everybody knows that Mishim—the third moon—is the most clever and wily of the moons.” (Oathbringer, 35) iv) "Mishim is always looking for a chance to escape her duty.” (Oathbringer, 67) v) “Everyone knows that Mishim is the cleverest of the three moons." (Oathbringer, 67) vi) "The queen was pious, but the moon was crafty." (Oathbringer, 67) [NOTE: Ishar is famously pious, and less famously crafty] vii) “As always, Mishim was hatching a scheme." (Oathbringer, 67) I find it too much of a coincidence that two characters with such similar names are consistently described with the same language. Furthermore, the characterisation of Mishim as a kind of rebel fits with what we know of Ba Ado Mishram, who led the singers in the False Desolation without Odium and the Voidspren. It also explains how and why Ba Ado Mishram was able to Connect herself to the minds of the entire singer species during the False Desolation. Her having been the spren of Connection between singers and spren, it makes sense that she would retain this capacity - and that binding her in the way they did would have some adverse effects on the singers: "Yes. That terrible act touched the souls of all who belong to Roshar. Spren too." (Rhythm of War, 49) "By capturing Ba-Ado-Mishram—locking her in a gemstone—humankind had stolen the minds of the singers in ancient times." (Rhythm of War, 24) Even the language of the Recreance in this quote seems to echo the myth of the Girl: humans stole God's Light from the minds of the singers. And Mishram, "though still crafty, has never again left her place." (Oathbringer, 67) Conclusion So that's my theory. Ba Ado Mishram - once called Mishram - was a spren who represented the common ground between singers and spren. The Heralds communed with her to some degree, perhaps tricking her, and this let them access the Surges. This act violated the agreement between the singers and the human refugees (in the eyes of the singers at least) - this was the initial spren betrayal the Fused speak of. In retaliation, the singers went to Odium and became the Fused, sparking the first Desolation. The Heralds in turn went to Honor and forged the Oathpact to enable them to fight the Fused and seal them in Braize. During the course of the war, Odium was able to Unmake Mishram, God's Own Light, into Bad Ado Mishram. This is the great singer betrayal that the spren speak of, that led to many spren mimicing what Honor had done with the Heralds, and the beginning of the Radiants. Finally, it is possible that Mishram was actually the first born child of Cultivation and Honor, created specifically to represent the bond between singers and spren. Centuries later, when the spren started making human Surgenbinders, Ishar came to Honor to help force order upon them (making the Radiant orders). At this point, Cultivation and Honor had another child, this time made to represent the common ground between humans and spren. They made the Sibling. If you made it this far thanks for reading, can't believe I actually typed this whole essay and someone actually read it. Excited for y'all to tear holes in it it!
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  3. Oh, also, I can hear again! That's nice.
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  4. I've got raisin in my bran FSY was AMAZING! so spiritual and fun! I made a few new friends, my councilor was awesome. he and his brother did the song above a few years ago during quarantine, he showed it to my group and we were all laughing and enjoying it so much! I hope the rest of you in my church that went to or are going to FSY will and have had good times at that awesome event. For other news, I met a sander fan there who was reading HoA for the first time. I chatted with him a few times about his theories and et cetera. DON'T BE KEYS!
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  5. "Smedry! Would you get your talent under control? Stop breaking my lenses!" Bastille waved a shattered pair of warriors lenses in my face. I, Alcatraz Smedry, could only stare open-mouthed back. It wasn't that I had my talent under control or anything. No, things still fall apart around me. Literally. And not in the hyperbolic literal way that some people imply when they say literally. I mean literally literally. I'm good at breaking things. But this wasn't me. When I break things, they break in strange ways. Not like Sing Sing had stepped on them "This is the tenth pair of lenses we've had to replace since you got here," Bastille continued, her rant only becoming more furious with every word. "Bastile," Grandpa Smedry cut in. She didn't stop. She just kept talking. Well, shouting at me. But I stopped listening. How could I keep listening when I noticed what Grandpa was looking at. The librarians were here. Welcome to Mid-Range Game 59: Alcatraqz vs the Lens Destructors! This is a re-run of QF42, but simplified. This will be lens(role) madness. Find the rule doc here. I am the GM, and @Araris Valerian will be Arelis Smedry (also known as the IM). But also here: Sign-ups will close Wednesday, July 20 at 4 p.m. PDT. Rule Clarifications Player List Quick Links
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  6. LG87: Day 4 - Dove Shooting It was a massacre. Multiple people ran into the main dove hideout, stabbing everyone in sight. 2 People dead. That, and more bodies have been stolen from the mausoleum. And I, official recorder of the happenings in the palace, am tired. So that's all I have to say today ~~~ Sart has died! He was a Foreign Infiltrator Spy infiltrating the Royalist Doves! He had the Second Heightening! HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES has died! They were a Royalist Dove Royal! They had no heightening. (Yes, and before anyone asks, there is still at least one Royal alive. Otherwise I'd say so in the writeup, since it's Win Condition relevant). The bodies of Kasimir and Young Bard have gone missing! 2 more commands are required to be discovered for the game to end. The day will end in 46ish hours at 7PM MDT. Known Commands Player List
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  7. Can I just say… Amish Paradise by “Weird Al” Yankovic is a true masterpiece
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  8. Interlude 6, Szeth: I feel like Szeth is the centerpiece of The Way of Kings, possibly The Stormlight Archive, at least the first five. I am not surprised by the direction things are developing, I felt like it was only a matter of time before someone sent Szeth to make another big splash. To me, a very interesting part of the interlude was when Szeth started questioning some of his core beliefs. I'd assumed there was magic involved with his being Truthless and having to obey whoever is in possession of his Oathstone, but maybe it's not magic but brainwashing / cultural influence / tradition, whatever you want to call it? Maybe he believes that this is what he has to do, and if something causes him to change his beliefs, he'll stop obeying people, start "rebelling" I suppose? I hope we find out more about this direction soon! Also, I hope his first target from that list will be the king of Ja Keved who happens to already be dead, lol.
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  9. We recently hit 17,000 subscribers on YouTube, which for us being the 17th Shard is a pretty cool milestone! We're doing a stream to celebrate! There will be chatter, there will be fun! Starts July 17th (obviously) at 11am Pacific / 2pm Eastern.
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  10. This makes more sense to me. If the whole "storing an unnatural trait granted by another magic system in a metalmind" doesn't work, than at least you can use those granted traits to cover for you while you store your normal ones. Maybe a Radiant-Feruchemist could be storing strength or health, but then instead of having to deal with that temporary lack, they could just use Stormlight to balance it out and give them normal functions while they store their attributes. They don't gain any extra benefit from the Stormlight at that moment, but it lets them function easier and still get the metalminds filled. You could also have them fill a Cadmiummind while using Stormlight. Cadmium stores breath, so that while storing, the Feruchemist (or Gasper, as the Ferring is called in this case) needs to Hyperventilate, but then is able to go without breathing for long amounts of time when tapping. Stormlight also allows the user to go without breathing. So using stormlight while storing breath in Cadmium would be helpful. Another example (that uses only magics in the Metallic Arts) is storing speed while inside a Bendalloy bubble, which makes it so you don't really loose speed or time relative to everyone around you. There are probably a ton of other shortcuts like this. Even if you can't directly mix the magic systems, there are still things you can do to make it so you don't really loose the attribute while storing it, because it's being re-granted by another magic.
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  11. i love this website Playground - OpenAI API ai text generating is awesome I did the same prompt a few times with different AI Models and here are the different results. the prompt was "Write a fantasy epic prologue in the style of Brandon Sanderson." Some of these are actually almost good? And others are creepy in that uncanny valley sorta way. It's incredible.
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  12. For your first example, with the gold compounder, I think it would definitely work. In fact, I think that's how most compounders do it in the first place. They store a little health in a small bit of gold, then burn that gold, and then re-store that compounded health in other metalminds for later usage. So the person wouldn't even have to have A-gold, just F-gold. If a Truthwatcher or Edgedancer heals the Feruchemist, the Feruchemist could store that extra healing in a metalmind, and then call upon it for later usage, with or without compounding involved. And I bet you could do it easily with other attributes, like speed, which was the other example you used. I've been re-reading the original Mistborn trilogy, and based on the descriptions of Sazed using Feruchemy, it becomes increasingly obvious to me that there could be ways to... "cheat the system", so to speak. Meaning that there are ways (besides compounding) that you could take extra attributes given by Invested arts and store them Feruchemical. For example, if you had a Radiant who was also a Bloodmaker, (gold Ferring), could they infuse themselves with Stormlight, then just store the healing that the Stormlight gives in their Goldmind for later usage? (Like you said above, that would be even more efficient if they were a compounder.) I think Brandon Sanderson has these things in mind as he gets closer and closer to writing Era 4 and the Cosmere's space age. He probably has a lot of little tricks (and most likely some big ones, too) in store for when the magic systems begin to interact. It's possible that this might not work, because it would be too easy, and Brandon has made some other rule that prevents the "Feruchemy short-cut", so to speak. But it seems to me like this is something we'll see a lot of in the future. Maybe the capabilities of Stormlight in regard to Feruchemy are why a certain Scadrian is trying so hard to get that Stormlight offworld....
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  13. On a whim earlier today, I decided to see what might happen if I fed the opening lines of the prologue of WoK into a bot and watched what it came up with. Bizarrely, it seemed to have some idea of what the Stormlight Archive is, who some of the major characters are, and even concepts like bridge crews, lighteyes, spren, etc. It also managed to be marginally coherent, at least until the character limit ran out. Of course, being a bot, it has no idea of the context of anything, and so ended up producing a twisted funhouse mirror version of WoK where Kaladin and Bridge Four are trying to build a bridge under the not-so-watchful eye of a nameless king, while Kaladin is apparently pretending to be Sadeas's son for some completely inexplicable reason. Oh, and Szeth may be the Dragon Reborn, but I'm not entirely sure on that. The text I gave it was, of course, "Szeth-son-son-Vallano, Truthless of Shinovar, wore white on the day he was to kill a king." The bot I used was here:https://app.inferkit.com/demo As for the "story" itself, behold behind the cut! And yes, I know it cuts off in mid-sentence. That's part of the charm;).
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  14. I was bored. I'm assuming that a chasmfiends gemheart is roughly the size of a basketball, which I don't find too unreasonable given the size of chasmfiends, and the way it's described makes it seem like they can be held in one hand or two. So that gives chamsfiends gemhearts a volume of roughly 7,104 cubic cm. Multiplied by an emerald density of 2.75 g/cm^3 equals 18,257.28 g. Now the mass of spheres is measured in mg with broams being 400 mg, so multiplying that by 1000 and dividing it by 400 we get that a gemheart is roughly equal to 48,840 emerald broams. But it gets better. Going by this WoB One clearmark is roughly a dollar. Now a clearmark is worth 5 diamond chips, while an emerald broam is worth 1000 So multiplying our 48,840 broams by 1000 and dividing it by 5 we have a chasmfiends gemheart as being worth approximatly 9,768,000 USD. Almost ten million dollars per gemheart. No wonder the highprinces fought so viciously over these things, and it puts a whole new perspective on Sadeas handing over a gemheart to prove he isn't in it for the money, he just handed over 10 Million dollars! With one of these falling every week or so the highprinces must have made billions of dollars during the war of vengence.
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  15. Alas. We suspected that this would be the case for some time now, but it has finally be confirmed: Stormlight 5 won't be coming until 2024. Though the reason why certainly isn't quite what we expected... Brandon Sanderson did a Reddit AMA (ask me anything) with subreddit r/books last week, and u/VeryNiceName16 asked about the plan for the "Stormlight 4.5 novella" (tentatively titled Horneater) amid everything else going on in 2023. Which, if you've give a moment of thought for Brandon's release schedule for 2023, is a darn good question! We've got four Secret Project books, Defiant (Skyward 4), AND supposedly Stormlight Archive 5? Not to mention the Words of Radiance leatherbounds and several other smaller projects that might be coming along. I don't know about you, but I'm already sweating thinking about how much work it will be just to keep up! Progress on Stormlight 5 has been slow of course, and Brandon finally confirmed what we all expected: the Stormlight 5 release just isn't going to happen in 2023 after all. While some people might be bummed by this, I have to say that I'm honestly a bit relieved. With so much content coming out, I'm more than grateful that we're getting a bit of extra time so that we can properly digest it all. This delay should come as no surprise. Brandon's fastest turnaround time on a Stormlight book was Rhythm of War, which he started writing in early 2019 and was able to finish by the end of that year. Sanderson's plan was to start Stormlight 5 at the beginning of this year to hit the November 2023 release... Well, we're currently a little over halfway through the year and the first draft status bar is sitting at a mere 7%, with a few more weeks of Secret Project 3 revisions still on his plate first. Keep in mind Brandon will still have to work on revisions for Secret Project 4 and Defiant at some point as well. All of that to say, it would seem that he's roughly 6 months behind schedule as it stands, and that could slip a bit further. Brandon stressed at JordanCon 2021 that he will allow Stormlight 5's schedule to slide back if necessary. It's the "end of a sequence," as he called it, and he needs to make sure that sequence sticks the landing. Brandon went a step further though to clarify why Stormlight 5 has been a bit slow-going, and it's not primarily due to the Secret Projects or any other writing projects: it's movie and television stuff. It was ALSO at JordcanCon 2021 that Sanderson gave one of the biggest teases about about potential adaptations in quite some time: saying that if we "read in between the lines" we might be able to put some things together even though he couldn't announce anything official. In the recent AMA, he opened up a bit more on this saying: "This is the year that Hollywood came calling." With the success lately of various fantasy properties proving that Game of Thrones wasn't a fluke, streaming services, execs, and producers are on the hunt for more. Guess whose name shows up as the top bestselling author with no adaptations made? Brandon Sanderson has been getting a lot of their attention, and the recent Secret Project Kickstarter success only added more fuel to the fire. The result? Lots of phone calls and lots of meetings with several major streaming services and studios. (Netflix was one he named in particular.) Brandon explained earlier in the AMA that he's doing everything he can to earn a relatively high level of involvement and creative control over any adaptations that come about, and the bargaining power that he seems to hold is sure to be a big help. Apparently Hollywood doesn't know what to do with someone who doesn't need their money? It's important to stress that we do NOT know the status of any movie or television deals. While it's possible that something in particular is in progress, it's also possible that Sanderson is still working through negotiations to make sure they get the best deal they can. And let's not forget that even from the time of an announcement, it's a long road to seeing an adaptation on our screens. One thing seems clear however: it's a question of when, not if. The same is thankfully true of Stormlight Archive novels. While Stormlight 5 is expected to be delayed, we at least know that we can trust Sanderson to get it done as soon as he is able. As for u/VeryNiceName16's question that sparked all this? Brandon did confirm that Horneater is very much on his to-do list after Stormlight 5 is written. So perhaps we'll get a little something extra to tide us over in the months before the next novel? Which I say as if half a dozen other books in 2023 aren't already enough to do that!
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  16. Recently I have spent an increasing amount of time thinging about Rosharan magics, and one of the things I come back to quite frequently is the Fabrials. Well, this time I had the thought to try making guns with fabrials. Guns(In their most basic form) fire bullets by heating the air behind the bullet, increasing the pressure, and forcing the bullet out. Now this becomes more complicated as things like bullet casings ibecome standard, but in essence this is what we are going for. A way to create a lot of heat, at a controlled point. Fortunatly fabrails have us covered. Heating fabrials are really basic, requiring only: a flamespren, a ruby, stormlight, and the metal to form the cage. Now the most obvious metals to use would be pewter and zinc, intending to make as much heat as possible. However Duralumin could also be used, assuming it causes the fabrial to use up all of its stormlight in a massive burst of expression strength. So we build a long barrle and connect it to a trigger, which moves pewter and zinc levers forward and touches it to a flamespren in a ruby heating the air, and forcing the bullet to fire, using duralumin if that doesn't provide enough heat. And with this we have an increadibly primitive gun. However this has a serious drawback, if duralumin is required then you have to open the gun up and replace the ruby each time you fire. But their is a simple solution. Flamespren are really easy to aquire, and gemheart farming will make rubies much easier to aquire. So if duralumin is required, or even if it isn't but the extra kick is desired. A simple casing of rubies containing flamespren can be made and attatched to each bullet. Which would have an intresting side effect of making it easier for Roshar to make fully-automatic firearms than semi-automatic. Anyway what do you think? Any gun nerds out there going to come and tell me that all of this is wrong, or potentially other ways to improve the design? I welcome all suggestions.
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  17. Here, just thought this might be fun. This is a thread for posting recommendations for board/video games that have mechanics or themes that might appeal to sanderfans. (they dont have to be cosmere themed games) and potentially brainstorming fan games. Board game recomendation, Lotr Lcg Video game reccomendation, Dwarf fortress(its free and what it lacks in graphics it makes up for in scale. It has extremely intracate systems and the like for your more mechanics foucused players, and some of the best story aspects for story players. It is a sandbox game and is free) Board game idea. (some credit to manywar sanderson elimination) A card game with breaths as currency. So like how magic uses its currency you use breaths instead. You could discard a card to research something now avalible to all players. You all play as one of the 5 scholars and whoever makes nightblood first wins.
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  18. IIRC, the books never actually mentioned a height in feet/inches (just a "very tall eunuch"); but I thought BS said in a WoB that he was "around 7 feet tall," like many eunuchs. I haven't found that WoB again yet, but this is from the Annotations:
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  19. I have never read Skyward despite being a teen, but maybe I'll try it someday. P.S., "retroactive handwavey pseudeo-science explanation" l0l. Editorial note: I read sci-fi and I'm not sure why, but I feel that Sanderson is one of those authors who strongly specializes in epic fantasy and is eh for other sub-genres such as sci-fi.
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  20. I've been playing around with The OpenAI beta text generator and it's really really cool. So I figured I'd make a topic to share some of my coolest generations and so that others can share cool things they make too. You'll need to make an account. Either share a screenshot of the website or format them like so: This is the human written prompt (this is the AI model used and any other major settings changes i made) Example: Write a horror story about ai text generation and the uncanny valley. (text-davinci-002, and I increased the maximum length a little.) (yes this is a real thing i had generated. its awesome.) and yeah thats it. have at it.
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  21. Salem, OR has a new city flag! I've only been to Salem once--we only passed through, really--but it's a beautiful city, and now it has a beautiful flag to match! (The old one wasn't bad, but neither was it particularly inspiring.)
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  22. Repetitiveness is a word!!! And I loooooove using it in my writing. This one was fun to write, the song I used is very noice.
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  23. Rashek: The guy who was evil and needed to be overthrown. One to two books later... Oh wait, he was keeping the world from ending. Whoops.
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  24. Man, first death before day 1 gets posted. Thats early.
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  25. Oooh I love the repetitiveness! .... That might not be a word. The descriptions are great!
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  26. Poem 25 Flight Gates aflame with fires gathered from the very pits that Hades created to punish the wicked groan and splinter. A vast metropolis smokes as it is smitten by the blows of armies cobbled together from the edges of the mortal plane. Temples are filled with worshippers begging the masters and mistresses of the cosmos to come to aid them. The winds do not even stir as the road to the realm of the dead is overrun by defenders, innocents, and invaders alike. Plagues spread out as even children wander the streets foraging for crumbs to fill their skeletal forms. Families turn on each other and callously the gods do nothing. Those who are upraised watch as this last stronghold of wisdom and freedom is assaulted and broken. From the barred entranceway comes a roar as the enemy comes pouring through weapons thirsty for a glut of blood to feed both themselves and the earth. Left and right mounds of corpses rise into the air as an obscene offering to those uncaring deities who reside in the upper worlds. A clarion rings out now from the heights as a lone figure descends upon the notes of a song and freezes the invaders where they stand. Weapons turn to dust and a dread falls like the heaviest of shrouds over those who relish their killing. She comes now driving light and wondrous sound into defiled souls. These attackers fall to their knees when she approaches not even daring to gaze into her eyes that lead to another realm. Violence bleeds away when her music fills the air and clothes hearts in something like the warmth that comes of true love and the knowledge that one is no longer alone. Primordials come to praise her while she resurrects the city through the tune that flows from her lips, but in their shame, they flee. Empress and savior, they name her though she asked for no crown. In the heavens, hers is the brightest of stars and on the earth, her name is a spell of salvation. All is restored and her capital is the illumination that purges corruption from the very blood of the world.
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  27. In the instance of an electrical shock, a current of 20mA can cause a person to loose control of their diaphragm (therefore they stop breathing), and a mere 100 mA can cause a person's heart to stop.
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  28. Rings of Power! Here's hoping. The trailer doesn't look promising. But trailers never look promising.
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  29. i just witnessed the biggest storm of my life and i was outside for the entirety of it literally felt like a Highstorm i witnessed 3 trees fall over in front of me, and found many more fallen trees after the fact theres a tree blocking off the entire street to my house and again i was outside for the entirety of it my hands and ears are slightly cut up from minuscule bits of hail and my ears were ringing from how loud it all was you literally could not walk into the wind. i fell backwards completely and the wind held me up. had to take shelter under a fallen tree branch for a few minutes at the absolute height of it all. parking lots and retention basins are completely flooded so yeah that was basically the coolest thing thats ever happened to me had a massive smile on my face literally the entire time. the entire thing lasted maybe an hour and now its completely still. no rain at all. still a bit of lightning in the distance but that's it.
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  30. I feel like Dalinar is stupid. Whether or not his visions are real, he is able to see clearly on some matters that others can't. It feels like he's throwing away his ideals because others are disagreeing with him. It seems like he's buckling under pressure and failing to recognize that.
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  31. The "dropping" was in HOA in the Kandra Homeland prison when he only had speed (stored in the steel lock) and weight (stored in the iron grate). He dropped his fists on kandra, not koloss, and then fell on one, breaking the stone bones of a True Body. He didn't fight with normal punches etc. In the WOA koloss fight he was using huge amounts of strength/Pewter. There he was indeed punching koloss, but that wasn't weight/Iron. Iron gives *structural* strength (not crushing yourself) but not *muscular* strength (motion). Like other Feruchemy, it gives you just enough that the ability itself doesn't kill you (similarly to how Steel speed doesn't make your legs snap from G-forces but doesn't protect from wind resistance, or how Brass heat doesn't kill you with heatstroke). I don't think Wax could squat at 2000lbs. He could maintain his position (due to structural strength) if he was *already* squatting- his legs wouldn't buckle- but he couldn't move much at 10x weight. (Though this protection from killing yourself probably only comes into play in extreme uses, like "heavy as a building" Wax. RL people have survived a couple of dozen g for about a second; crushing lungs would take a LOT.)
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  32. hey guys. so sorry about not being active but i just have a lot going on. Also i got selected for the debate competition (thank you the storming stormfather and frustration!) also i have news. i finally decided what i want as a career. Psychiatry. I know it will be difficult and hard but arent all the good things in life? also i have always been interested in mental disorders, and if i am able to help even one person by being a pycisatrist. if i am able to give one person the help they need, well...i think my life will have meaning (sorry for all the spelling mistakes)
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  33. Calano - Personal variation of my full legal name. Rolls off the tongue like a charm, (cuh-LAH-no) and is just generally a cool name. Corvus - Bird :).
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  34. New Pet Peeve just dropped. STOP. TALKING. ABOUT. HOW. FAST. YOU. READ. ESPECIALLY PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVELY 1. It’s annoying because it’s bragging. All bragging is annoying. This alone isn’t enough to make it an issue though. 2. It’s annoying because it’s completely unverifiable. Basically any other skill or ability can be viewed from an outside perspective. Some can be judged subjectively, others can be measured objectively. There is no way (barring literal eye-tracking software (even this would be flawed though)) to observe reading speed. It’s simply unknowable. Number of words or books means nothing, because guess what? YOU SKIMMED SOMETHING. I promise you, there is at least ONE word you didn’t read in any given book. More likely there are multiple sentences scattered throughout that didn’t entirely register. (This then brings up the semantic argument of “does the reader have to have actually gained any information, or does simply recognizing the individual words really fast count as ‘reading’”) Especially if you’re someone for whom “reading fast” is a point of pride, you’re likely to skim more. Not intentionally, I’m not calling you a cheater or anything. That would be silly, because… 3. I DONT CARE. NOBODY CARES. ITS NOT IMPRESSIVE. IT’S NOT A SKILL. Reading speed is a “skill” that depends on a huge number of factors, most of which are completely out of any person’s control. Environmental factors that could effect focus, genetic factors that affect brain processing speed etc. These things can’t be improved upon. It’s not a skill. (Also, it’s fairly ableist. Like, ADHD and Dyslexic people struggle to read quickly at no fault of their own. Imagine a group of people arguing about who’s the tallest and across the room is someone who has dwarfism.) The one factor in reading that may actually be a skill is reading comprehension, but comprehension generally increases the SLOWER you read soooooo… 4. It’s annoying because of the strange, passive-aggressive, competitive discussion it causes. Every single time reading speed is mentioned, it’s like every person nearby devolves into base-instinct animals competing for the right to mate. I swear, they act like peacocks. Inserting themselves into the conversation, always being careful to not specifically insult anyone who came before them, but making sure their supremacy is known. “Oh you read [long book] in a week? Wow that is fast! I’m a fast reader too, once I read [longer book] in 4 days.” Like omfg we’re all supposed to be more intelligent than this. Stop comparing sizes and move the heck on. I would like to say that one of the reasons this annoys me so much is because I used to be quite guilty of all of this. Thinking on younger (much younger. (like, 7 years ago)) dannex bragging about how fast he reads makes me violently cringe to the point of disgust. But to you all, I offer a better way. A slower way. Join me on the enlightened path of non-pretentiousness, and never bring up reading speed ever the heck again.
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  35. Ah yes. The feeling when you realize that school is greatly exacerbating your possibly preexisting mental health issues, but you don't realize that and therefore don't tell your parents until the school year is almost over. On a side note, I think that it's hilarious that I went from 'oh, this is teenage angst and something I can deal with' at the beginning of May, which is Mental Health Awareness Month, to 'oh heck, that's not supposed to be normal and I might not be able to deal with that on my own' by the end of the month. The awareness was done with all the grace and precision of painting the underside of a 2x4.
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  36. You're probably right, but these are artistic renditions of the heralds right? People didn't really know much about the powers, so I doubt they'd know specific details like that, and the artist would probably draw her with a glove even if she didn't actually wear one
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  37. Idk about rock, Dalinar being an unknowing dawnshard would make sense considering his borderline psychosis with uniting everyone
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  38. Radiance is actually pretty open since all it actually requires is the consent of the Spren, the basic mental capability to speak Ideals with Intent, a cracked soul, and a physical Body (since the spren needs that as an anchor to manifest). Nightblood is weird because he's a "robot spren", but with a native physical Body, which arguably puts him closer to a Robot Returned/Herald in terms of realmic state. So he might be viable as a Radiant in the same way Nale is. He is objectively growing in Investiture and abilities so there's no reason to think he cant evolve enough to step through some Truths/Ideals if he and a Spren come to an understanding. A Lifeless is being reanimated by somewhat blunt and undirected investiture, and as we've seen it really doesnt get them all the way back. Arsteel was most likely reanimated with his own original breath which could explain his noted improved retention of skills from life. But there are also multiple ways to create what they commonly call a Lifeless, and I they would have different realmic implications on Bonding. The "old" Command took 50 breaths and I suspect was a more brute force reanimation of the meat-body and that the improvement to a single breath was a Command to replace/recharge the Spirit rather than the body. Per several WOB's a Lifeless barely has any Soul left (for the purposes of hemalurgy, etc) so to get them charged up and mentally awake enough to Bond would (I think) take a lot more Breaths/Investiture and a new & more specific Command. One WOB says it could be possible to dump enough in them to create something like a Cognitive Shadow, which should then be playing on Returned/Herald rules for Radiance purposes. For Mistborn/Feruchemists, short answer is No: To use Medallions you need to be able to recognize the tech for what it is and provide the Intent of the equation, so they'd need sapience for that like awakening (I believe).
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  39. Rhythm of War spoilers ahead! Do not read unless you have finished it. If someone has already posted this, or if it's intuitively obvious, sorry. This is from RoW, Chapter 8: And this is from Chapter 111: These quotes show me that somehow, Odium has the power to suppress, or take away altogether, emotion. I'm sure it has similar mechanics to Soothing with Allomancy, but on a much larger level. But then there's this death rattle that makes me think there's something else: This death rattle implies that the Unmade Dai-Gonarthis, a.k.a The Black Fisher, also somehow has the ability to suppress or take away emotion. And because the Unmade serve Odium, this makes me think: What if the "gift" that Moash speaks of isn't directly from Odium? What if, instead, Dai-Gonarthis is the source of this ability to remove emotion, and Odium somehow delivers the power to Moash? This is something that has always seemed to fit for me. My theory is that Dai-Gonarthis is the source of Odium's ability to take away emotion. The one problem with this theory is that because Odium is the god of passion, it would make sense for him to have this ability himself, meaning that Dai-Gonarthis may have similar powers, but isn't necessarily behind Moash's emotionlessness. What do you think? What problems are with this theory? Was this already obvious? Tell me below!
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  40. Aww, thank you so much! I'm definitely going to continue. Chapter 23. Wait. Those guys from the prequel, Kelek/Kalak and his friends, they're the Heralds that we keep hearing about! And that Shardbearer that showed up at the end of chapter 1, he's the man Kaladin killed! Then he was denied the Shardblade, offered some dumb gift instead, refused it, and became a slave. That's why he's so sure it's all a lie. Am I close? I liked the part where Kaladin realized just giving the bridgemen their lives wasn't enough; they also needed something to live *for*.
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  41. I love this! I made some tweaks
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  42. Fun! I wish there was a scene like that where all our favorite Cosmere characters come together to fight a common threat. For one, I would like to see if Wayne and The Lopen would get along nicely
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  43. If we're including unpublished, then Microkinesis. Otherwise, unchained Bondsmith.
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  44. I'm not trying to pile on but I don't see why Ferrous would be any more or less canon than Night, they're from the same unpublished book. Only Amberite(or Rosite depending on how Brandon is feeling) is technically canon because we've seen it in published works.
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  45. I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that. The gemstones impart an equal force on each other. The size difference leads to different speeds, as it takes a larger amount of energy to move a larger gemstone at a certain velocity. Force = Mass * Acceleration. say gemstone A is imparted with 15 newtons of force, and has a mass of 5 kg, meaning it accelerates at 3 meters per second. 15N = 5kg * 3meters/second^2. The smaller gemstone then has 15 Newtons of energy imparted to it, and it has a mass of 1 kg. The equation then comes out to 15N = 1kg * 15meters/second^2. 5 times the speed, but the same amount of force.
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  46. Pretty sure Mraize drives a Mitsubishi Eclipse.
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  47. I have a bit of a different take on Moash. I see him and Szeth as two faces of the same coin. Both did the things that they did because they felt that they had no other course of action. Szeth followed his masters' plans explicitly because he believed that he was Truthless, and therefore somehow even stronger than honor bound to do so. Moash went down the path he did because he believed that he was bound by family honor to kill Elhokar and overthrow the lighteyes. Both did claim that they had no choice in the matter. It doesn't matter that they both were flawed in their thinking, it is what they truly believed. The parallel continues in RoW. Both Moash and Szeth continue to push responsibility for their present actions on someone else. In Moash's case its Odium, in Szeth's, Dalinar. In both cases, they continue to disclaim any true responsibility for what they do. In both cases it is an arguement of "I'm just following orders." In Szeth's case, he is lucky in that Dalinar, as he currently is, does genuinely seem to be a good person who wants to protect his people, while for Moash, Odium obviously doesn't. Note that both cases can lead to abuses: Even Dalinar might require terrible things in the name of "greater good." So the question is this: Does Moash deserve redemption? For that matter does Szeth? To say one does, but not the other is to miss the point. Second question: If redemption is offered, would either one accept it? Honestly, I don't think either would unless they had some sort of epiphany about their own culpability. So far I haven't seen evidence of that from either of them. TLDR; Moash is misguided, but no more so than Szeth, and neither of them will be redeemed unless they admit their own responsibility.
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