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  1. Hello! It's been forever since I've actually done a Sanderson Elimination game. I was thinking about it since I just finished Rhythm of War. (I was late since it came out on my mission). If there's room for a rusty return player, I'd love to join! I also haven't read Alcatraz vs the Evil Librarians, but this looks like fun! May the World welcome: Theonandrimicrus Hathor the Third... also known as Theo.
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  2. This is a theory I've been chewing on for a while but haven't wanted to post because I haven't had the time to put all the pieces together. Anyway, here goes: SPOILERS THROUGH RHYTHM OF WAR (I think) TLDR Ba Ado Mishram was the child of Honor and Cultivation, the common ground between singers and spren. The Heralds communed with her to some degree, perhaps tricking or trading with her, and she helped them access the Surges. This violated the agreement between the human refugees that bound them in Shinovar and forbade them to use the Surges (in the eyes of the singers at least) - and was the initial spren betrayal the Fused speak of. In retaliation, the singers went to Odium and became the Fused, sparking the first Desolation. The Heralds went to Honor and forged the Oathpact to enable them to fight the Fused and seal them in Braize. In the course of the war, the Fused were able to help Odium Unmake Mishram into Ba Ado Mishram. This is the singer betrayal the spren speak of, which led to many spren mimicing what Honor had done with the Heralds, and the beginning of the Radiants. Cultivation and Honor then had another child, this time made to represent the common ground between humans and spren - Mishram's younger Sibling. A lot of the evidence I've based this on from the text is drawn from the two in-world myths in the title, 'Queen Tsa and the cleverest of the three moons' and 'The Girl Who Looked Up". If you want to get into the weeds, keep reading. Myths of Roshar Firstly, we need to be establish the connection between these two tales, so let's look at what both of the myths are about: The tale of Queen Tsa is a story about a woman who escapes the bounds set forth for her and her people by travelling to the heavens. She is aware that going to the heavens is forbidden for mortals, but still she ascends (by tricking the green moon Mishim to trade places with her). She eventually returns to the world, however she is carrying the child of Nomon, the blue moon god of her people. Her son bears the "mantle of the heavens" and she believes he will lead her people to glory. The tale of The Girl Who Looked Up is a story about a young woman who escapes the bounds set forth for her and her people by travelling beyond the Wall. She is aware that going beyond the Wall is forbidden for her people, but still she ascends. She looks over the wall to and sees God's Light. She returns to the world, but first she steals a piece of God's Own Light and flees back home with it. As a result, the storms start coming - but her people now have Light. My conclusion is probably quite obvious by now... Queen Tsa is The Girl Who Looked Up Or, at least, the two represent the same person/people. While Queen Tsa may be an actual historical figure in Roshar, it's important to remember that Hoid - ancient, magical Hoid - is the one telling the tale.. And he's not above exercising artistic license when he wants to. Hoid is also the teller of the second iteration of the Girl Who Looked Up not long after this scene, the version which includes the Girl's people having "light renewed." (Oathbringer, 82) If that doesn't convince you, here are a few of the symbolic ties between Tsa and the Girl. i) Looking Up Like the Girl, Tsa quite literally spends her story looking up at the heavens and hatching her scheme to get there: she is literally a girl who looks up. Both Tsa and the Girl are warned against their quest: The Queen herself says that all know the eyes of mortals would burn at the sights, their minds run mad at the language of the heavens. The Girl questions several people on the Wall and is told: "There is a wall. Do not go beyond it, or you shall die.” (Oathbringer, 25) Both the Girl and the Queen reach for the sky: The Girl by climbing the "high, terrible wall stretching toward the moons. Blocking the sky..." (Oathbringer, 25) The Queen by designing "high towers for her city, built to reach ever upward, grasping toward the sky." (Oathbringer, 67) ii) Turning White In the myth of the Girl at the point at which she starts climbing the Wall, Shallan notices that the Girl's hair is white, and is unsure if it had always been. Brandon has stated there is some significance to this. In the story of Tsa, the Queen is represented in Hoid's smoke by a white tower while Mishim is represented by a green moon. Once they trade places however, Shallan notes that: "the moon had become white, and the single straight tower he made by swiping up in the smoke was instead pale green." (Oathbringer, 67) In both stories, the transition/appearance of white occurs after the protagonist sets out on their journey to the other side. iii) The Red Scarf In the myth of the Girl, we are told: "a vibrant red scarf grew around the girl’s neck, twin tails extending far behind her". (Oathbringer, 25) The significance of this scarf is hard to see until you look into the history of the scarf itself. It originated in Ancient Egypt and was worn by Queen Nefertiti. I think this is meant to draw yet another symbolic connection between the Girl and Queen Tsa, as she too wears the mantle of a Queen. As for the colour red, more on that later.* Lastly, when Shallan finds Hoid telling the story of Queen Tsa and the three moons in Kholinar: "He was dressed, strangely, in a soldier’s uniform—Sadeas’s livery, with the coat unbuttoned and a colored scarf around his neck." (Oathbringer, 67) iv) The Crime Both the Girl and the Queen commit a crime (or at least something that is viewed in world as morally wrong) once they reach the other side. The Queen breaks her promise not to look upon the sights of the heavens: "Tsa! Your word is broken!" (Oathbringer, 67) The Girl steals a piece of God's Light. v) The Light Both return home with a keepsake from the other side. The Girl returns to her village with the piece of God's Light, bringing with her the storms. We are told that the Light once taken could not be put back and that "each storm brought light renewed" and [of her people] "now they could see". In other words, her people now had Light eternal thanks to her gambit. The Queen carries a child of Nomon, one of the gods, who bears the "mantle of the heavens". The story elaborates that all descendants of this son bear this mantle (the blue skin) - or you could say all of her people now bear the mantle of the heavens. Symbolically, heaven's mantle usually refers to the stars themselves - or starlight. So all of her people now bear the Light of the heavens after her gambit. So if these two stories are about the same characters and events, what are they about? Who do they represent? We know of the history of the human refugees led by the Heralds, who were bound in Shinovar and likely warned against tampering with the Surges after the destruction of their home planet. We know that the First Desolation was sparked by some sort of betrayal by the spren involving the humans: "The betrayal of spren has brought us here/They gave their Surges to human heirs" (Words of Radiance, 28) Who is Queen Tsa/The Girl representing? What about Mishim, God's Light, the child of Nomon and Tsa? The Heralds & Ba Ado Mishram 1) The people of Tsa's kingdom = the people of the village = human refugees from Ashyn The Village and the world are both the strictly designated areas of the denizens of Tsa and the Girl's world, and they are forbidden to leave it. From what we know of the original Ashynite refugees, this is exactly what Shinovar was to them: humans were supposed to stay in the grassy, earth-like area designed for them - to this day the Shin curse stonewalkers ( the rest of Roshar is basically stone and crem). Another parallel is found in the fact that the people in the Girl's village lived in darkness - there was no Light. In much the same way, Shinovar is known to have no spren, and the ancient human refugees had no bonds to Rosharan spren - no Investiture - no Light. However, this story is not purely a physical one - much like the history of Roshar was not. 2) The City/World = The Village = Shinovar/the minds of men Queen Tsa's home city/the whole world parallels the village the girl lives in: the Village is described as being in the shadow of the great Wall - one villager says it's not a wall: "That’s just the way the sky is over there.” (Oathbringer, 25) The Wall is so huge the villagers almost seem to live beneath it, in the same way Tsa and her people live literally below the heavens. And while the humans did literally expand out of Shinovar into Roshar, but the rest of the tale - the theft of Light, the mantle of the heavens - doesn't quite add up with any purely physical objects in Rosharan history. We have known since Words of Radiance that the ancient singers felt the spren had betrayed them. This has been expanded on in subsequent books as we know the singers manipulated the Surges - using Stoneshaping etc. - and had some sort of bonds with the spren like all native Rosharan life. That ancient betrayal that sparked the war, and a cycle of betrayals. The spren betrayal, in the listener's words was that: "They gave their Surges to human heirs" (Words of Radiance, 28) We also know how spren bonds work now - human minds are linked to spren, which pulls them into the Physical Realm through the Connection. It is a meeting of minds that grants spren presence in the Physical Realm in exchange for granting humans Surges. This is why I believe the darkness the people of the Girl's village is representative of Cognitive darkness - the humans had no access to the Surges, to Stormlight - they lived in darkness. For further evidence we can look to the singers in this tale. 3) The creatures who lived beyond the Wall = the singers "She climbed down the steps...she hid among the creatures who lived on this side." (Oathbringer, 82) There are creatures who live beyond the wall, in "God's Light" (Oathbringer, 82) unlike the Girl's people living in the land of shadows. On the Physical level, this is accurate with what we know of Rosharan history - the ancient singers lived in Roshar, filled with spren and Investiture while the humans lived in earth-like Shinovar. It also tallies with what we've heard about the bonds between men and spren vs those between singers and spren.These realms are meant to represent the minds of men and singers respectively: at this point in time, humans had no Connection to the spren of Roshar - there was a barrier between their minds and those of the spren. Singers however, cannot provide what the humans can: The spren betrayed us, it's often felt. Our minds are too close to their realm That gives us our forms, but more is then Demanded by the smartest spren, We can't provide what the humans lend, Though broth are we, their meat is men (Words of Radiance, 32) According to this, the ancient spren betrayed the singers because singers minds were too close to their realm (Shadesmar), and the sapient spren desired more: human connection. Much as we are told that Mishim "doesn’t want to be in the sky" and longs to come down among mortals and do all the things "she had watched from afar" (Oathbringer, 67). As for Nomon, in the tale we see how Mishim's brothers enjoy the company of Tsa, in a way they never seemed to with Mishim. This seems to parallel the sentiments of the singers as they realise the humans - like Queen Tsa - have more to offer the spren than they do; this suggests Nomon himself represents the spren. As for Mishim...more on that later/ 4) Queen Tsa = The Girl Who Looked Up = The Heralds Now, if the setting is ancient Shinovar then while the Girl/Queen of the people could represent an actual queen, she more likely represents the leaders of the humans living in Shinovar: the Heralds. After all, it is the Girl who is responsible for stealing the piece of God's Light, the coming of the storms, and "tearing down the wall" (Oathbringer, 25). In the RoW Nale visions, we see what is presumably the forging of the Oathpact (as it is the earliest vision). In it, Jezrien and Ishar invite Nale to take some charge, a duty that he accepts with honor - the Oathpact. Jezrien claims, "We will fix what we've broken." (Rhythm of War, 47) This seems to indicate that Jezrien and Ishar - at least - were responsible for starting the Desolations. We also infer that Nale was opposed to whatever Jezrien and Ishar did that "broke" something and started the war, as Jezrien claims he was correct all along. Let's combine this with what we already know about the start of the Desolations: 1) The spren betrayed the singers by giving their "Surges to human heirs" 2) The humans betrayed the singers in some way involving the spren "they were a people forlorn, without a home...their betrayal extended even to our gods: to spren, stone, and wind." (Oathbringer, 111) 3) Some of the Heralds were responsible for breaking something, which started the Desolations So what did the ancient humans break? We know the Heralds were their leaders, and that squares with Jezrien's reference to what they broke when talking to Nale. In the story of the Girl, she steals a piece of God's Light. This leads to the breaking of the wall, the barrier between the land of shadows and the land of Light - and the Storms come as a punishment. It seems that the Heralds - the ancient humans - violated their agreement, they broke their word. "Tsa! Your word is broken!" (Oathbringer, 67) The Heralds broke their word by (in the eyes of the Fused) stealing the spren/Surges, breaking the barrier between men and spren and, which led to the Desolations. The Girl crossed the barrier between lands and stole Light, which led to the Wall being torn down and the Storms coming as punishment. After breaking their Pact with the singers, Jezrien and Ishar hatched a plan to forge a new one that might fix what they had ruined.= 5) The Sky = Beyond the Wall = Roshar/Shadesmar It follows that the Heavens and the land beyond the Wall are one and the same. The land beyond the Wall is illuminated by God's Light, which seems to tally with the heavens which are lit by starlight - and also the presence of the gods Nomon and Salas. 6) Tsa & Nomon's Child = The Piece of God's Light = Surges Both the Girl and the Queen journey to the 'Other Side' and return with something: the Girl steals a piece of God's Light, which she brings to her people providing Light eternal - "each storm brought light renewed, for it could never be put back, now that it had been taken." (Oathbringer, 82) The Queen returns to her land pregnant with Nomon's child, and gives birth to a son who will lead her people. He is said to bear "the mantle of the heavens" meaning the blue skin of Natanatan which mimics the blue light of Nomon's moon. In the story, Nomon is a god however; that blue light is God's light, one that his son carries. We are also told that "that is why to this day, the people of Natanatan have skin of a faintly blue shade.": Queen Tsa's people bear God's Light to this day. The key difference between the two tales is how this is obtained: the Girl steals a piece of God's Light, whereas Nomon seems to have delighted in Tsa's company - that was no theft. The only victim in the tale of Tsa is Mishim; she is the one who is tricked by Queen Tsa, she is the one who experiences "Loss." (Oathbringer, 67) She experiences the loss of "Nomon's kindness" (Oathbringer, 67): the loss of her bond with her brothers. To experience loss is to have something taken away: the Girl steals God's Light; the Queen steals God's affection. So what is God's Light? What is this thing that The Girl/Tsa/the Heralds stole? It's pretty clear, given what Light is in the real (cosmere) world - Investiture. Bonds. Or, as a Rosharan might say, Surges. These two stories - taken as one tale about the Heralds - rhyme very well with in-world canon we know, which I alluded to earlier. Let's take the two stories, strip them of their figurative facade and see what we're left with. To recap: Queen Tsa = The Girl = The Heralds The World = The Village/land of shadows = Shinovar/minds of men creatures beyond the wall = ? = singers Nomon = God's Light = spren Nomon's son = Piece of God's Light = Surges Storms = Desolations Mishim = ? = ? So, the Heralds lived and led the humans Shinovar, and were strictly forbidden from venturing beyond Shinovar and their minds from Connecting with spren and accessing Surges. Despite the warnings of some of their peers, the Heralds decide to breach the barrier between men and spren. They trick Mishim (?) into helping them access the Surges. Mishim feels betrayed by the Heralds, and claims that they broke their word. The damage is done, and the barrier between the minds of men and the spren is broken. The Desolations start as a result of this. However, every Desolation brings back the light renewed* (in this case I believe it alludes to the fact that the Heralds return with each Desolation/storm). So who is Mishim in the cosmere, this mysterious being that allowed the Heralds to access the Surges (a piece of God's Light)? Where is she in the story of the Girl Who Looked Up? We know that Mishim was the victim of loss in Tsa's story, so we simply have to look for a similar victim in the Girl's story: who did the Girl steal God's Light from? There are 2 answers to that question. 1) God's Light ("girl in the scarves slipping up to the grand source of light, then breaking off a little piece in her hand." (Oathbringer, 82) 2) The creatures beyond the Wall (aka the singers) The second is the easiest to comprehend: it fits with what we know of the lore. The Heralds/ancient humans stole (in the eyes of the singers) the Surges/Connection to Rosharan spren from the ancient singers - this is the betrayal that started the Desolations. It also works if we insert the singers in the tale of Tsa: Mishim (the singer) is jealous of Tsa's connection with her brothers Nomon and Salas: "‘Feasting?’ Her siblings had never feasted with her before." (Oathbringer, 67) "‘Songs?’ Her siblings had never sung with her before." (Oathbringer, 67) "Mishim...now knew another mortal emotion. Loss." (Oathbringer, 67) Mishim is jealous of and betrayed by the human Tsa's Connection with Nomon in the same way the singers are jealous of and betrayed by humans Connection to spren, whose "meat is men" . Tsa offers Nomon companionship that Mishim cannot, singing and feasting with him - just as the humans offer what the singers cannot: "We can't provide what the humans lend" (Words of Radiance, 32) The first is a bit murkier, but also makes sense with cosmere mechanics. You might ask how you can steal from a being made of God's Light, or how a piece of that being could grant one Surges. But we do have sapient beings made of 'God's Light' (Investiture), with whom a Connection can grant access to Surgebinding: spren. How can these two answers coexist? How can the Heralds have taken the Connection to Rosharan spren from a spren and taken it from the singers? Simple: Mishim was a spren who represented the Connection between the singers and the spren. We know that such spren can exist from Rhythm of War, because that is exactly what the Sibling is: "My song...the common ground, the Sibling said. Between humans and spren. That is … that is why I was created." (Rhythm of War, 110) The Sibling is the child of Honor and Cultivation, made to be the emulsifier between humans and spren. If Honor and Cultivation created such a being for the humans, is it not possible that they did the same aeons before? Either that, or they found the spren already in existence - the singers being native to Roshar, it is possible that such a spren arose naturally. If it didn't, if this mysterious elder spren was indeed born of Honor and Cultivation, then the spren made by Honor and Cultivation to bridge the gap between spren and humans is not the only child - he is the Sibling. A last piece of evidence - the chapter with the tale of Queen Tsa is titled 'Mishim' and begins with this epigraph: "This generation has had only one Bondsmith, and some blame the divisions among us upon this fact." (Oathbringer, 67) We know now that this was the Sibling's Bondsmith, which seems appropriate for a chapter revealing lore about the character I believe to have been its predecessor. Let's turn back to the tale of Tsa and apply this new knowledge: at the end of the story, Mishim hears a new song which she recognises as the song of Nomon's child with Tsa . She feels loss - a spren that represents the Connection between singers and spren experiences the loss of light at the hands of the humans. This works perfectly as symbolism for the singers ancient loss and betrayal. However, it still leaves us with one final question: who is/was Mishim? Who was this great spren of Connection, that represented the Connection of the minds of the entire singer species to the spren? Hmmmm.... "Ba-Ado-Mishram...Connected herself to the entire singer species." (Rhythm of War, 73) "Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people," (Oathbringer, 80) 7) Mishram = Mishim The first and most obvious connection here is the similarity of the two names Mishim/Mishram. Beyond this, let's look at everything we know about Ba Ado Mishram from the books: i) The Heralds know Ba Ado Mishram personally: "please find Mishram and release her. Not just for her own good. For the good of all spren." (Rhythm of War, 97) NOTE: Kalak calls her 'Mishram', not 'Ba Ado Mishram' as the Fused, Sja-Anat and other Voidspren do. ii) She is consistently described as crafty/cunning/intelligent: "Ba-Ado-Mishram, who had granted forms to the singers during the False Desolation—were crafty and conniving." (Rhythm of War, I-2) "She is said to have been keen of mind, a highprincess among the enemy forces" (Oathbringer, 106) iii) She is trapped in a prison (the gem) and presumably wants to escape. Now lets look at how Mishim, the green moon is described: i) "the third moon is the cleverest." (Oathbringer, 35) ii) "she doesn’t want to be in the sky, sir. She wants to escape." (Oathbringer, 35) iii) "everybody knows that Mishim—the third moon—is the most clever and wily of the moons.” (Oathbringer, 35) iv) "Mishim is always looking for a chance to escape her duty.” (Oathbringer, 67) v) “Everyone knows that Mishim is the cleverest of the three moons." (Oathbringer, 67) vi) "The queen was pious, but the moon was crafty." (Oathbringer, 67) [NOTE: Ishar is famously pious, and less famously crafty] vii) “As always, Mishim was hatching a scheme." (Oathbringer, 67) I find it too much of a coincidence that two characters with such similar names are consistently described with the same language. Furthermore, the characterisation of Mishim as a kind of rebel fits with what we know of Ba Ado Mishram, who led the singers in the False Desolation without Odium and the Voidspren. It also explains how and why Ba Ado Mishram was able to Connect herself to the minds of the entire singer species during the False Desolation. Her having been the spren of Connection between singers and spren, it makes sense that she would retain this capacity - and that binding her in the way they did would have some adverse effects on the singers: "Yes. That terrible act touched the souls of all who belong to Roshar. Spren too." (Rhythm of War, 49) "By capturing Ba-Ado-Mishram—locking her in a gemstone—humankind had stolen the minds of the singers in ancient times." (Rhythm of War, 24) Even the language of the Recreance in this quote seems to echo the myth of the Girl: humans stole God's Light from the minds of the singers. And Mishram, "though still crafty, has never again left her place." (Oathbringer, 67) Conclusion So that's my theory. Ba Ado Mishram - once called Mishram - was a spren who represented the common ground between singers and spren. The Heralds communed with her to some degree, perhaps tricking her, and this let them access the Surges. This act violated the agreement between the singers and the human refugees (in the eyes of the singers at least) - this was the initial spren betrayal the Fused speak of. In retaliation, the singers went to Odium and became the Fused, sparking the first Desolation. The Heralds in turn went to Honor and forged the Oathpact to enable them to fight the Fused and seal them in Braize. During the course of the war, Odium was able to Unmake Mishram, God's Own Light, into Bad Ado Mishram. This is the great singer betrayal that the spren speak of, that led to many spren mimicing what Honor had done with the Heralds, and the beginning of the Radiants. Finally, it is possible that Mishram was actually the first born child of Cultivation and Honor, created specifically to represent the bond between singers and spren. Centuries later, when the spren started making human Surgenbinders, Ishar came to Honor to help force order upon them (making the Radiant orders). At this point, Cultivation and Honor had another child, this time made to represent the common ground between humans and spren. They made the Sibling. If you made it this far thanks for reading, can't believe I actually typed this whole essay and someone actually read it. Excited for y'all to tear holes in it it!
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  3. "Smedry! Would you get your talent under control? Stop breaking my lenses!" Bastille waved a shattered pair of warriors lenses in my face. I, Alcatraz Smedry, could only stare open-mouthed back. It wasn't that I had my talent under control or anything. No, things still fall apart around me. Literally. And not in the hyperbolic literal way that some people imply when they say literally. I mean literally literally. I'm good at breaking things. But this wasn't me. When I break things, they break in strange ways. Not like Sing Sing had stepped on them "This is the tenth pair of lenses we've had to replace since you got here," Bastille continued, her rant only becoming more furious with every word. "Bastile," Grandpa Smedry cut in. She didn't stop. She just kept talking. Well, shouting at me. But I stopped listening. How could I keep listening when I noticed what Grandpa was looking at. The librarians were here. Welcome to Mid-Range Game 59: Alcatraqz vs the Lens Destructors! This is a re-run of QF42, but simplified. This will be lens(role) madness. Find the rule doc here. I am the GM, and @Araris Valerian will be Arelis Smedry (also known as the IM). But also here: Sign-ups will close Wednesday, July 20 at 4 p.m. PDT. Rule Clarifications Player List Quick Links
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  4. LG87: Day 4 - Dove Shooting It was a massacre. Multiple people ran into the main dove hideout, stabbing everyone in sight. 2 People dead. That, and more bodies have been stolen from the mausoleum. And I, official recorder of the happenings in the palace, am tired. So that's all I have to say today ~~~ Sart has died! He was a Foreign Infiltrator Spy infiltrating the Royalist Doves! He had the Second Heightening! HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES has died! They were a Royalist Dove Royal! They had no heightening. (Yes, and before anyone asks, there is still at least one Royal alive. Otherwise I'd say so in the writeup, since it's Win Condition relevant). The bodies of Kasimir and Young Bard have gone missing! 2 more commands are required to be discovered for the game to end. The day will end in 46ish hours at 7PM MDT. Known Commands Player List
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  5. Interlude 6, Szeth: I feel like Szeth is the centerpiece of The Way of Kings, possibly The Stormlight Archive, at least the first five. I am not surprised by the direction things are developing, I felt like it was only a matter of time before someone sent Szeth to make another big splash. To me, a very interesting part of the interlude was when Szeth started questioning some of his core beliefs. I'd assumed there was magic involved with his being Truthless and having to obey whoever is in possession of his Oathstone, but maybe it's not magic but brainwashing / cultural influence / tradition, whatever you want to call it? Maybe he believes that this is what he has to do, and if something causes him to change his beliefs, he'll stop obeying people, start "rebelling" I suppose? I hope we find out more about this direction soon! Also, I hope his first target from that list will be the king of Ja Keved who happens to already be dead, lol.
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  6. This makes more sense to me. If the whole "storing an unnatural trait granted by another magic system in a metalmind" doesn't work, than at least you can use those granted traits to cover for you while you store your normal ones. Maybe a Radiant-Feruchemist could be storing strength or health, but then instead of having to deal with that temporary lack, they could just use Stormlight to balance it out and give them normal functions while they store their attributes. They don't gain any extra benefit from the Stormlight at that moment, but it lets them function easier and still get the metalminds filled. You could also have them fill a Cadmiummind while using Stormlight. Cadmium stores breath, so that while storing, the Feruchemist (or Gasper, as the Ferring is called in this case) needs to Hyperventilate, but then is able to go without breathing for long amounts of time when tapping. Stormlight also allows the user to go without breathing. So using stormlight while storing breath in Cadmium would be helpful. Another example (that uses only magics in the Metallic Arts) is storing speed while inside a Bendalloy bubble, which makes it so you don't really loose speed or time relative to everyone around you. There are probably a ton of other shortcuts like this. Even if you can't directly mix the magic systems, there are still things you can do to make it so you don't really loose the attribute while storing it, because it's being re-granted by another magic.
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  7. For your first example, with the gold compounder, I think it would definitely work. In fact, I think that's how most compounders do it in the first place. They store a little health in a small bit of gold, then burn that gold, and then re-store that compounded health in other metalminds for later usage. So the person wouldn't even have to have A-gold, just F-gold. If a Truthwatcher or Edgedancer heals the Feruchemist, the Feruchemist could store that extra healing in a metalmind, and then call upon it for later usage, with or without compounding involved. And I bet you could do it easily with other attributes, like speed, which was the other example you used. I've been re-reading the original Mistborn trilogy, and based on the descriptions of Sazed using Feruchemy, it becomes increasingly obvious to me that there could be ways to... "cheat the system", so to speak. Meaning that there are ways (besides compounding) that you could take extra attributes given by Invested arts and store them Feruchemical. For example, if you had a Radiant who was also a Bloodmaker, (gold Ferring), could they infuse themselves with Stormlight, then just store the healing that the Stormlight gives in their Goldmind for later usage? (Like you said above, that would be even more efficient if they were a compounder.) I think Brandon Sanderson has these things in mind as he gets closer and closer to writing Era 4 and the Cosmere's space age. He probably has a lot of little tricks (and most likely some big ones, too) in store for when the magic systems begin to interact. It's possible that this might not work, because it would be too easy, and Brandon has made some other rule that prevents the "Feruchemy short-cut", so to speak. But it seems to me like this is something we'll see a lot of in the future. Maybe the capabilities of Stormlight in regard to Feruchemy are why a certain Scadrian is trying so hard to get that Stormlight offworld....
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  8. On a whim earlier today, I decided to see what might happen if I fed the opening lines of the prologue of WoK into a bot and watched what it came up with. Bizarrely, it seemed to have some idea of what the Stormlight Archive is, who some of the major characters are, and even concepts like bridge crews, lighteyes, spren, etc. It also managed to be marginally coherent, at least until the character limit ran out. Of course, being a bot, it has no idea of the context of anything, and so ended up producing a twisted funhouse mirror version of WoK where Kaladin and Bridge Four are trying to build a bridge under the not-so-watchful eye of a nameless king, while Kaladin is apparently pretending to be Sadeas's son for some completely inexplicable reason. Oh, and Szeth may be the Dragon Reborn, but I'm not entirely sure on that. The text I gave it was, of course, "Szeth-son-son-Vallano, Truthless of Shinovar, wore white on the day he was to kill a king." The bot I used was here:https://app.inferkit.com/demo As for the "story" itself, behold behind the cut! And yes, I know it cuts off in mid-sentence. That's part of the charm;).
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  9. I was bored. I'm assuming that a chasmfiends gemheart is roughly the size of a basketball, which I don't find too unreasonable given the size of chasmfiends, and the way it's described makes it seem like they can be held in one hand or two. So that gives chamsfiends gemhearts a volume of roughly 7,104 cubic cm. Multiplied by an emerald density of 2.75 g/cm^3 equals 18,257.28 g. Now the mass of spheres is measured in mg with broams being 400 mg, so multiplying that by 1000 and dividing it by 400 we get that a gemheart is roughly equal to 48,840 emerald broams. But it gets better. Going by this WoB One clearmark is roughly a dollar. Now a clearmark is worth 5 diamond chips, while an emerald broam is worth 1000 So multiplying our 48,840 broams by 1000 and dividing it by 5 we have a chasmfiends gemheart as being worth approximatly 9,768,000 USD. Almost ten million dollars per gemheart. No wonder the highprinces fought so viciously over these things, and it puts a whole new perspective on Sadeas handing over a gemheart to prove he isn't in it for the money, he just handed over 10 Million dollars! With one of these falling every week or so the highprinces must have made billions of dollars during the war of vengence.
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  10. This thread is only in this forum because Virtuosity is mentioned. We know one of the Dawnshards is Change, and another has something to do with binding. Hoid's Dawnshard, its aftereffects preventing him from harming anyone or eating meat, is likely something like "Protect" or "Remain (the same)". The 4 Shards under "Change" are likely: 1. Ruin - (entropy) 2. Cultivation (controlled/directed growth) 3. Whimsy (change for the sake of change/undirected change) 4. Odium (whose core intent, from RoW, I think is conflict, or conflict for conflict's sake perhaps, rather than simply hate). Under "Protect/Remain" (Hoid's) would be: 5. Preservation-- stasis, remaining the same 6. Valor -- risking oneself to protect 7. Autonomy-- separation or protection from external influences 8. Mercy -- protection from punishment or the bad effects of one's actions The ones associated with "Bind" would be: 9. Devotion - unity through love 10. Dominion- unity through force/compulsion/power 11. Honor- oaths/bonds 12. Perhaps Ambition, depending on what Ambition's precise intent is (is it more about increasing one's influence over others, which would fit this quadrant? Or more about self improvement, which wouldn't fit?) The 3 remaining known Shards are: 13. Virtuosity (artistic creativity) 14. Endowment (giving a part of oneself) 15. Invention (technological creativity perhaps?) That IMO suggests that the last Dawnshard is something like "Create" or "Bestow". -- To get very speculative, the use of the Dawnshards as weapons against Adonalsium might have involved using Change to make the unity of Adonalsium changeable/fragile; Create/Bestow to Bestow separate Intents on the parts; Bind to Bind them to sixteen Vessels, ripping Adonalsium apart; and Remain/Protect to stabilize the new Shards.
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  11. Here, just thought this might be fun. This is a thread for posting recommendations for board/video games that have mechanics or themes that might appeal to sanderfans. (they dont have to be cosmere themed games) and potentially brainstorming fan games. Board game recomendation, Lotr Lcg Video game reccomendation, Dwarf fortress(its free and what it lacks in graphics it makes up for in scale. It has extremely intracate systems and the like for your more mechanics foucused players, and some of the best story aspects for story players. It is a sandbox game and is free) Board game idea. (some credit to manywar sanderson elimination) A card game with breaths as currency. So like how magic uses its currency you use breaths instead. You could discard a card to research something now avalible to all players. You all play as one of the 5 scholars and whoever makes nightblood first wins.
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  13. IIRC, the books never actually mentioned a height in feet/inches (just a "very tall eunuch"); but I thought BS said in a WoB that he was "around 7 feet tall," like many eunuchs. I haven't found that WoB again yet, but this is from the Annotations:
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  14. I have never read Skyward despite being a teen, but maybe I'll try it someday. P.S., "retroactive handwavey pseudeo-science explanation" l0l. Editorial note: I read sci-fi and I'm not sure why, but I feel that Sanderson is one of those authors who strongly specializes in epic fantasy and is eh for other sub-genres such as sci-fi.
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  15. I guess this technology has been done... I believe the powers in the (non-Sanderson) YA series are explained to be a manifestation of the ability to control electricity in different ways, though it felt a bit like a retroactive handwavey pseudo-science explanation. I really do want to see a character with electrical power build up their toolkit of tricks from first principles.
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  16. Repetitiveness is a word!!! And I loooooove using it in my writing. This one was fun to write, the song I used is very noice.
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  17. I'm one of the people who believe that Dalinar is a Dawnshard. Specifically, the one that binds. The voice in his head that tells him to UNITE THEM would be a parallel to the "voice" that Rysn hears telling her to CHANGE. The problem with the theory of Dalinar as a Dawnshard is Sigzil. According to WOB, Sigzil's Torment is part of the reason why Rysn was warned not to bond a spren (the more important reason is that the Sleepless don't want anybody actually using the Dawnshard), implying that being Invested, or perhaps being bonded to a spren, can have unpleasant consequences. Does that mean Dalinar cannot be a Dawnshard, as he seems to lack a Torment? It could be that it takes a long time to develop a Torment - Sigzil has likely been running from the Night Brigade for decades or centuries, and he seems to still be adjusting to his limitations, unlike Hoid, who can navigate it with ease (although he usually has enough control over any situation not to need to start a physical fight). It could also be that Dalinar has a different kind of Torment, one we haven't noticed yet. I thought about this when remembering the passage where Dalinar opens a Perpendicularity for the first time. Odium panics, screaming that "we" killed "you", which is rather ambiguous, as he could be referring to either Honor or Adonalsium, or even someone else entirely. In that scene, Dalinar hears the voice in his head telling him, many times, with mounting intensity, to UNITE THEM. Immediately before he UNITES the Realms, he says "I am Unity". My unhinged speculation is that Dalinar is subconsciously acknowledging his status as the Dawnshard That Binds. Odium senses the Command and mistakes it for Adonalsium itself, and panics. There's a part of me that is actually hoping this theory is proven false, because it means Roshar isn't monopolizing half of the rarest artifacts in the Cosmere.
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  18. Many Interludes are worldbuilding. . . but that does not preclude hidden foreshadowing. That was the Axies the Collector interlude IIRC - he's great!
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  19. LG87: Night 3 - New Policies That day, no one saw the king. He rejected all food and servants, opting instead to work on his new proposal. Meanwhile, an assassin - his own cousin- sent to kill the king was caught! He was a revolutionary who desired the overthrow of the government and an establishment of a government of the people! The king never heard about him or his dream, because the messenger carrying the message was turned away as the king slaved over his legislation. Finally, at the end of the evening, he emerged. His advisors took the piece of paper, and read it. It was illegible. The advisors looked to the king for clarification, but he was already asleep on the floor. The new policies would have to wait. ~~~ Young Bard (8): Sart, Matrim, Wizard, Ashbringer, Stick, JNV, Clanky, Archer Young Bard has been exed! He was a Revolutionary Royal with the Second Heightening (yeah, I know I forgot about this. Everybody so far who's died has just been first and second heightenings.) A new command was discovered! Follow [Player] 30 breath. Shows actions that player made that night. May be used multiple times, but only on the specified player, for the cost of an action each time. 2 more commands must be discovered before the game can end. The night will end in 24.5 hours (I'm pushing rollover back one hour because I'm going to be traveling home right up until rollover, and I want to make sure I'm home before I do it). Known Commands Player List
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  20. Rashek: The guy who was evil and needed to be overthrown. One to two books later... Oh wait, he was keeping the world from ending. Whoops.
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  21. “Your files, Ms. Attar.” Azim’s cool, dry voice was blank as new parchment as he set the stack of files on the table. Lita felt some of the heat dissipate from the air, the tension momentarily slackened. She let her eyes slide away from Laurelai’s, resting instead on the stack of files. ”Thank you, Azim,” Lita said, her voice soft, steady - so at odds with the raw heat surging through her blood. “As always, your timing is impeccable.” ”Indeed,” the Singer responded, tone still utterly unreadable. “Will you be taking these records back with you, then?” Lita felt her lips curve upward ever so slightly, raising a single auburn brow. She looked back at Laurelai, still balanced on the edge of her fingernail. The blonde’s blue eyes were flicking between the stack of papers and Lita’s face with ravenous indecision. The color high on her cheeks had deepened and crept down her neck; Tin allowed Lita to see her pulse where it fluttered in her throat like a caged bird. The liquid thrum from earlier stirred again, coiling in her core. ”Why, yes we shall.” Lita released the pressure of her nail from Laurelai’s chin, allowing her finger to trace down the young woman’s neck. “Laurelai,” Lita continued, heat lacing her words like poison, “do be a dear and gather those records, will you? It wouldn’t do to get my blood all over them. So terribly inconsiderate.” ”Terribly,” Azim echoed drily before turning and walking back to his desk in the center of the main room. Lita stood and dragged the back of her left hand across her lip, leaving a smear of blood on the skin. It stung lightly, and Lita grinned into the pain. There was a single droplet of Lita’s blood on Laurelai’s palm, the crimson stark against her pale skin. Lita clicked her tongue and took the handkerchief from the tabletop, pressing it into Laurelai’s hand. Then she wrapped her fingers around Laurelai’s wrist and tugged her forward, up out of the chair. Laurelai was taller, but Lita felt nothing but power as she looked up into her eyes. Laurelai was helpless with desperation, drowning in it. Lita felt the electric thrill of the realization that she could demand anything at all in return for more information. Secrets of her own, certainly. Knowledge was power, and there were ever so many ways to know a person, weren’t there? “Come, Laurelai,” she said, tightening her grip on Laurelai’s wrist to just below the point of pain. “Let us go and settle your debt.” She ran her tongue along the cut in her lip, which had started to bleed again with the force of her smile. Beneath the heat of her fingers, Lita could feel the icy veneer of Laurelai Esserethel begin to melt and crack. @Voidus
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  22. Good idea. I haven`t thought of that, but that raises 2 questions: 1) Is it used the same way in Reshi? 2) Who gave her this nickname? It is in Reshi and she never was in the Reshi Isles. Maybe her mother gave her this nickname, but that would mean she was stealing while her mother was alive. Another point I noticed is that she asked the nightwatcher to stay the same while everyoneelse changed around her, which could be a description of the world from the point of view of a shard. So maybe this is Cultivation will eventually give her what she asked for but it will take time, the same way Dalinar resived the forgivveness of Evi but not immediatelly and Taravangian resived the capacity to save humanity when he ascended to Odium.
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  23. Shin and Parshendi are not the same. They're actually from opposite sides of the continent. Shin are from Shinovar which is far to the West, while the Parshendi are from the Shattered Plains which is the far East, though not the farthest east.
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  24. "Orodal Somar... Such order! Such dedication! His rigor and dedication is unlike anything else I've seen" (This is my newly-created Alleyverse character's spren. Wahoo character development )
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  25. There are some secret images they didn't tell us about! These first ones are of Jupiter and some of its moons. These ones are neat, because you can actually make out Jupiter's rings, especially in the one on the right. (The one on the right is in Mid-Infrared, while the one on the left is in Near-Infrared.) Also, on the image on the left, you can see Europa's shadow directly to the left of the Great Red Spot. It's a little solar eclipse. This one was a gif, apparently, I didn't know that. It shows an asteroid known as 6481 Tenzing moving across a background of stars. These ones look a little less impressive than the ones I showed you above, but the science we can do with these images and the things we can learn are just as spectacular. These new images also go to show how versatile JWST is; it can peer from the farthest galaxies to the closest planets. It just makes me more excited about what we're going to learn from this telescope. And, this last one isn't a JWST image, but I thought it fit:
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  26. In the instance of an electrical shock, a current of 20mA can cause a person to loose control of their diaphragm (therefore they stop breathing), and a mere 100 mA can cause a person's heart to stop.
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  27. I'll sign up as Sabaneta Smedry. Hello everyone.
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  28. If we're thinking of designing or using fabrials, why are we limiting ourselves to traditional firearms? With iron and steel fabrials being able to pull/push on things directly, we're not limited to imparting a force on a bullet indirectly by generating explosive force, we could have a magic railgun fabrial that, instead of using electromagnets to accelerate the bullet, directly pushes a piece of metal or bone or whatever. With the discovery of anti-investiture, and Navani being able to create plates that with intent can generate anti-investiture without her own involvement, we could have a gun that takes the stormlight (or any of the lights, really) from a reservoir gem, splits it two ways, converts one stream to anti-investiture, and then recombines them both at the tail end of a specialized bullet to generate the explosive burst. If investiture stays in the picture, and Rosharans remain the centerpiece shadesmar crossroads civlization, then we could also be using other means of achieving similar things. Why limit yourself to throwing a physical piece of metal or bone or stone at you? You could maybe do something more radical, and replicate the effects of Aon Daa in some form, firing bursts of pure explosive energy at things. And then there's also a completely wildcard field that we have barely explored, and that's the halfway soulcasting that was used to create the sibling's forcefield, where you had air being only half-way soulcasted to glass. There could be a lot possible here, if we start halfway soulcasting between other essences, like metal being half-way soulcasted to fire or something.
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  29. dalinar is not stupid. he is absolutely right in questioning himself. I dare say it's a required quality of a good leader. Ok, he's a major character, so you know his visions are right. You know that, because if dalinar was a random madman we would not be following hi pow. but dalinar does not know that. in fact, dalinar has every reason to think he's going mad, and he's taking rational decisions. Would you want to be ruled by a religious fanatic claiming to receive visions from god and making policies according to them?
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  30. This quote really does sum up so much of Kal's arc. Fighting is Kaladin's Smedry Talent! It even sounds like one! (FYI that was an Alcatraz reference.) Thank you everyone for answering my questions! Chapter 28: Gosh, Dalinar is so stupid. He could use getting some leadership advice from Kaladin. I hope something happens last minute to change his mind about stepping down. Maybe Adolin will convince him not to do it. On another note, interludes are next and we get Szeth again!! Can't wait!
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  31. I did this with a microwave, but I figured it out quickly (literally just a heatrial) and moved on to other kitchen appliances I don’t really know if this counts as a YKYASW but one day I walked into my ELA class and put RoW on my desk and my teacher said, “Honey, that’s not a book, that’s a weapon.” When you passed a billboard that said the word Tien and you were filled with immense joy
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  32. The "dropping" was in HOA in the Kandra Homeland prison when he only had speed (stored in the steel lock) and weight (stored in the iron grate). He dropped his fists on kandra, not koloss, and then fell on one, breaking the stone bones of a True Body. He didn't fight with normal punches etc. In the WOA koloss fight he was using huge amounts of strength/Pewter. There he was indeed punching koloss, but that wasn't weight/Iron. Iron gives *structural* strength (not crushing yourself) but not *muscular* strength (motion). Like other Feruchemy, it gives you just enough that the ability itself doesn't kill you (similarly to how Steel speed doesn't make your legs snap from G-forces but doesn't protect from wind resistance, or how Brass heat doesn't kill you with heatstroke). I don't think Wax could squat at 2000lbs. He could maintain his position (due to structural strength) if he was *already* squatting- his legs wouldn't buckle- but he couldn't move much at 10x weight. (Though this protection from killing yourself probably only comes into play in extreme uses, like "heavy as a building" Wax. RL people have survived a couple of dozen g for about a second; crushing lungs would take a LOT.)
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  33. Calano - Personal variation of my full legal name. Rolls off the tongue like a charm, (cuh-LAH-no) and is just generally a cool name. Corvus - Bird :).
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  34. Let's say you want to be tall, strong, physically attractive, all that good stuff. Investiture healing can physically change you in the Cosmere, even going so far as to let you change your biological sex. However, it's tied to your self-perception, so unless you actually think that's what you are, simply tapping a Goldmind or receiving Regrowth isn't going to work for this purpose. However, there is an Invested art that allows you to change your perception. Forgery. Forgery could be used to get some of the changes you want, but they are limited to what is within the realm of plausibility, and they are temporary changes that require frequent upkeep and a close proximity to MaiPon on Sel. However, rewriting your past so that you believe you are supposed to be a certain way physically could then allow you to use a form of Invested healing to permanently gain the body you want. After the Forgery wore away, would would probably need to lay off of healing with Investiture for a time to let the changes "settle in" to your cognitive aspect, but once that happened you shouldn't need to worry, as much of the time even things that people don't want to accept as a part of themselves, such as injuries, cannot be removed through Invested healing, so something you did want should stay.
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  35. Also, the infusion of investiture from the mists may have had some healing effect outside of the normal allomantic effects.
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  36. Pewter speeds up natural healing.
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  37. You're probably right, but these are artistic renditions of the heralds right? People didn't really know much about the powers, so I doubt they'd know specific details like that, and the artist would probably draw her with a glove even if she didn't actually wear one
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  38. Radiance is actually pretty open since all it actually requires is the consent of the Spren, the basic mental capability to speak Ideals with Intent, a cracked soul, and a physical Body (since the spren needs that as an anchor to manifest). Nightblood is weird because he's a "robot spren", but with a native physical Body, which arguably puts him closer to a Robot Returned/Herald in terms of realmic state. So he might be viable as a Radiant in the same way Nale is. He is objectively growing in Investiture and abilities so there's no reason to think he cant evolve enough to step through some Truths/Ideals if he and a Spren come to an understanding. A Lifeless is being reanimated by somewhat blunt and undirected investiture, and as we've seen it really doesnt get them all the way back. Arsteel was most likely reanimated with his own original breath which could explain his noted improved retention of skills from life. But there are also multiple ways to create what they commonly call a Lifeless, and I they would have different realmic implications on Bonding. The "old" Command took 50 breaths and I suspect was a more brute force reanimation of the meat-body and that the improvement to a single breath was a Command to replace/recharge the Spirit rather than the body. Per several WOB's a Lifeless barely has any Soul left (for the purposes of hemalurgy, etc) so to get them charged up and mentally awake enough to Bond would (I think) take a lot more Breaths/Investiture and a new & more specific Command. One WOB says it could be possible to dump enough in them to create something like a Cognitive Shadow, which should then be playing on Returned/Herald rules for Radiance purposes. For Mistborn/Feruchemists, short answer is No: To use Medallions you need to be able to recognize the tech for what it is and provide the Intent of the equation, so they'd need sapience for that like awakening (I believe).
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  39. Rhythm of War spoilers ahead! Do not read unless you have finished it. If someone has already posted this, or if it's intuitively obvious, sorry. This is from RoW, Chapter 8: And this is from Chapter 111: These quotes show me that somehow, Odium has the power to suppress, or take away altogether, emotion. I'm sure it has similar mechanics to Soothing with Allomancy, but on a much larger level. But then there's this death rattle that makes me think there's something else: This death rattle implies that the Unmade Dai-Gonarthis, a.k.a The Black Fisher, also somehow has the ability to suppress or take away emotion. And because the Unmade serve Odium, this makes me think: What if the "gift" that Moash speaks of isn't directly from Odium? What if, instead, Dai-Gonarthis is the source of this ability to remove emotion, and Odium somehow delivers the power to Moash? This is something that has always seemed to fit for me. My theory is that Dai-Gonarthis is the source of Odium's ability to take away emotion. The one problem with this theory is that because Odium is the god of passion, it would make sense for him to have this ability himself, meaning that Dai-Gonarthis may have similar powers, but isn't necessarily behind Moash's emotionlessness. What do you think? What problems are with this theory? Was this already obvious? Tell me below!
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  40. Aww, thank you so much! I'm definitely going to continue. Chapter 23. Wait. Those guys from the prequel, Kelek/Kalak and his friends, they're the Heralds that we keep hearing about! And that Shardbearer that showed up at the end of chapter 1, he's the man Kaladin killed! Then he was denied the Shardblade, offered some dumb gift instead, refused it, and became a slave. That's why he's so sure it's all a lie. Am I close? I liked the part where Kaladin realized just giving the bridgemen their lives wasn't enough; they also needed something to live *for*.
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  41. I love this! I made some tweaks
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  42. Rust and Ruin... that was good...
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  43. Fun! I wish there was a scene like that where all our favorite Cosmere characters come together to fight a common threat. For one, I would like to see if Wayne and The Lopen would get along nicely
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  44. With a bit of setup I would say the godkings deserve another look. Anything within eyeshot (potentially if they simply know it is there) can be awakened to obey their desires. I have had a lot of scenes become truly epic in my mind, but the color draining everything to a pure white and all the cloth crawling off the walls to grab an armies worth of rebels, crushing them and tossing them like ragdolls has to be my #1 favorite scene... just imagine all the color being drained around you and the house itself coming alive to rip you in half... That said awakening lacks solid healing. If returned could will themselves alive through some weird idealism / identity shenanigans then they would probably be the most spooky of opponents.
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  45. I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that. The gemstones impart an equal force on each other. The size difference leads to different speeds, as it takes a larger amount of energy to move a larger gemstone at a certain velocity. Force = Mass * Acceleration. say gemstone A is imparted with 15 newtons of force, and has a mass of 5 kg, meaning it accelerates at 3 meters per second. 15N = 5kg * 3meters/second^2. The smaller gemstone then has 15 Newtons of energy imparted to it, and it has a mass of 1 kg. The equation then comes out to 15N = 1kg * 15meters/second^2. 5 times the speed, but the same amount of force.
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  46. Pretty sure Mraize drives a Mitsubishi Eclipse.
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  47. I have a bit of a different take on Moash. I see him and Szeth as two faces of the same coin. Both did the things that they did because they felt that they had no other course of action. Szeth followed his masters' plans explicitly because he believed that he was Truthless, and therefore somehow even stronger than honor bound to do so. Moash went down the path he did because he believed that he was bound by family honor to kill Elhokar and overthrow the lighteyes. Both did claim that they had no choice in the matter. It doesn't matter that they both were flawed in their thinking, it is what they truly believed. The parallel continues in RoW. Both Moash and Szeth continue to push responsibility for their present actions on someone else. In Moash's case its Odium, in Szeth's, Dalinar. In both cases, they continue to disclaim any true responsibility for what they do. In both cases it is an arguement of "I'm just following orders." In Szeth's case, he is lucky in that Dalinar, as he currently is, does genuinely seem to be a good person who wants to protect his people, while for Moash, Odium obviously doesn't. Note that both cases can lead to abuses: Even Dalinar might require terrible things in the name of "greater good." So the question is this: Does Moash deserve redemption? For that matter does Szeth? To say one does, but not the other is to miss the point. Second question: If redemption is offered, would either one accept it? Honestly, I don't think either would unless they had some sort of epiphany about their own culpability. So far I haven't seen evidence of that from either of them. TLDR; Moash is misguided, but no more so than Szeth, and neither of them will be redeemed unless they admit their own responsibility.
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