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Oh dear I forgot yesterday Well… Day #30- Last day Thanks for dealing with all my status updates Yesterday I had Girl Scouts, and I did an ort idk what it is so don’t ask The magic school bus is actually so good and the theme is a bop Y’all are better than cake and ice cream Love y’all!

Status: depressed

today is a good day.

Syl: I told Kaladin that their ears turn red when they lie. Adolin: Do they? Syl: No. Adolin: Then why did you tell them that? Syl: Because I can do this. Syl: Hey Kaladin! Do you love us? Kaladin, with their hands over their ears: No Shallan: Can I have 2 straws with that milkshake? Adolin: Aww- Shallan: With 2 straws, I can drink it double as fast! Adolin: Ew. What kind of tea is this? Shallan: I boiled gatorade. Kaladin: That’s the longest worm I’ve ever seen. Shallan: That’s a snake. Adolin: How are you today? Kaladin: Please don’t make me think about my life. Shallan: What the hell were you thinking? Kaladin: I heard releasing birds at a wedding is romantic! Shallan: You released OSTRICHES! Syl: Is stabbing someone immoral? Shallan: Not if they consent to it. Kaladin: Depends on who your stabbing. Adolin: YES??!!? Navani: I need 28 lightbulbs for 28 ducks. Shallan: Ducks can’t eat lightbulbs? Kaladin: I think that’s the point. Navani: Exactly. I want my ducks to glow so I can find them. Adolin: I know this isn’t going to end well and I don’t care. So don’t you try and stop me, Shallan! Shallan: I wasn’t stopping you. I was asking if you had a spare camera so I can record this Dalinar: Are you having another depressive episode? Kaladin: A depressive episode? Kaladin: I'm having a depressive series and we're just on season one

guys, im an idiot, I forgot to mention something super important. I WROTE WE DONT TALK ABOUT JASNAH!

Warlight was named because the rhythm it beats to is the Rhythm of War. The inent was communicated by the rhythm itself so I think that War is the purest intent of Honor + Odium.

I too have discovered this: Vin to Kelsier: Me? I'm the bee knees, but, you? You're just... Elend: Cockroach ankles! Vin: Ye- uh, what? Kelsier: The moon looks beautiful, doesn’t it? Elend, looking at Kelsier: Yeah… but do you know what’s more beautiful? Kelsier and Elend in unison: *sighs* Vin Vin, knocking on the door: Kelsier, open up! Kelsier: It all started when I was a kid. Vin: That’s not what I- Elend: Let him finish! Elend: Vin and I were crossing the street, and this man drove by and honked at us. Kelsier: What did you do? Elend: She chased him to the next red light, and reached into his window, and- Vin: *walking in* Who wants a steering wheel? Kelsier: I am strong! I beat Elend at arm wrestling! Vin: Anyone can beat Elend at arm wrestling! Elend: Hey- Kelsier: If you water water, it grows. Vin: ...What. Spook: He's got a point. Elend, reading a recipe: Beat three eggs? Vin: It means like in hand-to-hand combat. Elend: Ohhhh- Dockson: Both of you get out of this kitchen. Syl: Would you slap Shallan- Kaladin: Yes. Syl: I didn't even finish! Kaladin: Sorry, continue. Syl: Would you slap Shallan for 10 dollars? Kaladin: I would do it for free. Shallan: Rude... Shallan: Guess what number I’m thinking of. Kaladin: 420? Shallan: No, that’s really immature of you. Someone else guess, and please take this seriously. Syl: 69. Shallan: Yeah it was 69. Shallan: Kaladin won’t come out of their room! Syl: Just tell them I said something. Shallan: Like what? Syl: Anything factually incorrect. Shallan, shrugging: If you say so. Kaladin, arriving moments later: Did you just say the sun is a PLANET?

In a similar vein, and from the same convo, here's a parody on "Do you Hear the People Sing" from Les Miserables too: Do you Hear the People Scream

Vivica stared at herself in the mirror, one finger tapping against the porcelain sink. Not much time, now. Not much time at all. She had felt them moving, the shadows. They flitted across her vision, lurking in the corners of her eyes, in that place where people did not want to look. But Vivica had been looking. And the shadows had been looking back. They were angry. She had overstepped with that drawing, the one she had given to Reshilore. Vivica smiled as she thought of him. Such a nice man. She didn’t regret giving him the Recipe. It was important. It was the most important thing she had ever done. Until now, of course. There was nothing more important than this. Vivica looked down at her tools, arranged neatly on a washcloth next to the sink, and gave a tiny sigh. They were not what she would have preferred, certainly not like what she had had in the Other Life. But, there was no time for moping. At least she had on her baking coat. Yes, at least there was that. “Are you ready, Bennington?” Her voice sounded thin, the barest quaver ringing at the edges. Vivica scolded herself. A scientist did not pout. She did not bewail her lot. She did what had to be done, for the advancement of all. Someone had to throw the first stone in this glass house. Someone had to let the darkness in. Because only in the darkness did people claw toward the light. She picked up her first tool: a spoon. It had taken her the better part of the last week to sharpen its edge enough to cut. But sharp it was. Vivica rolled up her left sleeve, inspecting the skin of her forearm with clinical detachment. An odd place for this bindpoint, really. Though, she reasoned, perhaps its location made more sense than it initially appeared. Such a common place for self-harm, for those who wished to be rid of their own mental torment. Maybe the bindpoint called to them, whispering in their ears. A way to be rid of their mental instability, if only they knew how to go about it. Vivica did not wish to be rid of it, but then, many things had happened that Vivica did not wish for. Such a great many things. “The first step,” she said aloud, “is to create easier access to the bindpoint.” She held the spoon for a moment, hand steady as stone. Then, with a single intake of breath, she began to carefully flay the skin from her forearm. Blood immediately started to drip into the sink, the bright crimson standing out starkly against white porcelain. Vivica felt herself smile, harder this time. It cut itself into the corners of her mouth just as she cut away her own flesh. Tears pricked her eyes, called instinctively by the pain - though pain held little sway over Vivica now. Bennington floated over her right shoulder, looking on with somber eyes. This was a crude job, really, and would have been totally unnecessary with the proper spike. But that was the trouble with the Cognitive Ward - they did not allow the patients access to sharpened metal spikes. So, Vivica had to make do. She set down the spoon, then picked up a long, narrow piece of copper. It had once been a paperclip. One of the orderlies was a Keeper, and she always had extra copper clips to use on patient files, storing memories in them when needed. It hadn’t been too difficult to slip one out of her pocket during a routine evaluation. People didn’t expect deceit from Vivica. Perhaps they didn’t think her capable of it. She watched the harsh fluorescent light play off the copper, then turned her attention back to her wrist. The cuts had been precise, the skin peeled back to allow the dull and narrow piece of metal the best possible chance at hitting the bindpoint. It had to work. It had to. There was only one way to dismantle this fictional world. Vivica had to remove the linchpin. She had tried so many times to tell the Professor. To make him see. Make him remember. But he was too blinded by the false light, too happy by far. Too sane. Much too sane. Vivica did not have time to wait for him to go mad on his own. So she used what she did have: a copper paperclip, and blood. She looked at herself then - really looked. Her sallow, sunken cheeks, her bloodshot blue eyes, her lank mousy hair. A ruin of a girl. A madwoman. Not even the power of a god could patch the cracks in her spirit. Even in this perfect world, Vivica was broken. But even that had a use. Vivica held the copper wire between her fingers, suddenly uncertain. This would be slow work. Nasty. Inelegant. She glanced upward, towards a piece of paper taped onto the mirror. A drawing of a woman and a cheerful violet orb, holding hands with a tall man in a labcoat. Nox. The Professor. The Lonely God. “We have to do it, Bennington. For him.” Vivica looked down again and grit her teeth, marking the bindpoint in her mind. Then, she began to slide the copper wire into her wrist. — Twenty minutes later, Vivica sat at her little desk and waited. She had wrapped a towel around her wrist, though blood continued to soak through. A neat little envelope sat at the corner of the desk, marked with the words “Professor Esserethel.” “We did it Bennington,” she whispered, watching the shadows bend oddly in the light of her single lamp. There was no reply. Vivica looked upward, to where Bennington usually floated above her shoulder. Nothing. There was no one. Vivica was alone. She bit her lip, though that did little to stop its trembling. It had been a possibility, she knew. A risk. Spiking out her own insanity would naturally rid her of her hallucinations. But some part of her had still hoped… A low hiss broke the silence, and Vivica stood, clutching the sharpened spoon in her right hand. Tears traced quiet lines down her face. “You missed all the fun,” she said softly. Beyond the reach of her lamplight, shadows crept and slunk and oozed across the floor. This was no simple mental edit. They had come to make her disappear. To patch the cracks. To keep the darkness out. “Don’t worry,” she said, raising the spoon. “I still have one more trick.” Something black and slick moved one foot into the lamplight. “One last surprise.” Another step. “I think you’ll really like it. It’s my disappearing act. Are you ready?” Vivica felt her grip tighten, watched the shadows coil, ready to steal her. To take her. To make all this for nothing. “I’m ready,” she whispered, smiling. White, and hard, and sharp. Then she took the spoon’s scalpel edge and drew it across her own throat.

Though I know this may be blasphemous in the Stormfaker support group thread, the idea that this entity chose Gavilar because his ancestor stood up to the Vorin church, coupled with the entity’s disappointment that Gavilar still bought into Vorin doctrine rooted in the lies of Aharietiam, AND Dalinar’s eventual willingness to go against the Vorin church, does lend more credence in my mind to the idea that the entity in the prologue actually is the Stormfather.

This has always been the most likely, especially since these WoBs:

take that @AonEne I wrote it first, I was getting impatient. it needs a little editing, but it's awesome.

All of the scenes in which Kaladin swore his ideals appeared in depth rattles. This has probably been laid out before but it's new to me

Anybody else ever want to reach out to someone because you're struggling, but you don't because if you talk about the one thing, all the other things are gonna come out because they all feed into each other and it'll probably be fine eventually because it's probably just a storm of teenage confusion that'll go away one day? In other words; I'm very confused, tired, and a little bit miserable and I don't know why.

Woah huh. Good question. I don't think they are Cognitive Shadows. They seem to me to be people supercharged. I think its described that their bodies basically use Investiture as fuel, drawing in more when they need to heal and when they use AonDor, but otherwise just augmenting their speed and strength and durability and the like. I don't think they have enough to become Cognitive Shadows, unless they were using AonDor as they die. This is a great question. Even though I don't feel like they are Cognitive Shadows, its entirely possible they are. Personally, that would make them too similar to Returned, which is one of the reasons why I think they're just peeps who have had their bodies altered to be fueled by Dor.

Hey fellow Sanderson fans! In my family, I am at the end of a long line of cosmere devotees, and have hidden the bulk of my interest for years. So today is the day. I am almost finished with RoW, and I must admit to the amazingness that is Brandon, and the worlds he creates. I am wholeheartedly embracing my geekiness. Also, points to anyone who gets the reference in my name(Rina, short for Torina, not cosmere related.)

Cannon shots: Five Void - District 5 Male Facepalm - District 8 Female TalnFan - District 9 Male Thaidakar - District 11 Male Robin - District 11 Female

Perhaps the shards of War and Cultivation combine to become Justice, because Justice is supposed to also make people or society as a whole better.

The Witherlord first showed up on page 800. And it's really a descendant of the first ever plot on TLT, which started in the early 400's.

Ok. Now I'm terrified. I need to rethink my life decisions.

I don't know if giving gifts is traditional for Koloss Head Munching Day, but we got the best one this year

I agree with you in the sense that Honor and Odium combining to War is a horrible idea. It is the exact opposite of the message I want to see. Basically every war we've seen in the series so far has been completely unnecessary bloodshed. The singers only recently regaining their minds and humans not remembering their earlier conflicts gives a unique chance for peace. Look at Kaladin's arc: It has in large part been about how war with the singers is senseless, and how common singers are not their enemies. That is a reason for his battle fatigue and I think he will play a large role in forming a peace between the peoples. His 5th ideal will be about seeking peace when possible IMO. It really ties together his singer plotline with the still unresolved philosophical conflict with his father. Both of these arcs have been there since WoK, and still need some payoff. The result could be that while killing is sometimes necessary, it should be avoided when possible -> seeking peace for Roshar. Leading is a Windrunner attribute and Kaladin is a great leader, so I think that the 5th ideal will almost certainly correspond to a big responsibility like that. Remember that almost nobody reaches the 5th ideal. It has to be something big and unique, like "becoming law" as a Skybreaker. Furthermore, the last two ideals were already about personal growth. Anyway, since I think that is the direction Sanderson is taking, I cannot imagine the Shard of War. In this sense i agree with you. But I also do not think that the two combining to Justice is the answer. To see the answer, I think we need to look at Kaladin's arc in RoW: He has great passion and love for those close to him, which should represent the "positive" side of Odium, but he also embodies Honor like nobody else. Remember that even when Odium tries to claim him (most desperate move I've ever seen tbh) Honor's true surge Adhesion still works. In that moment, he in a way already embodies a mix between these two shards. I don't know what it would be called, but I think the "true" combination of Honor and Odium, if this is indeed the endgame, would look a lot like Kaladin in RoW. To be honest, I think we only reason some people like the idea of a shard of War is that it would somewhat fit Dalinar's character. But it does not actually make sense in the bigger picture, at least not to me.

Who am I? Am I The beating heart The rushing blood The parts too small to see? Who am I? Am I The sparking nerves The racing brain The soaring thought? Who am I? Am I defined by others’ thoughts? Bound by their assumptions? No. I am Emotion Speech Thought I am A loved child of heavenly parents I am The racing spark of imagination I am Split parts and a whole I am My spirit, my soul I am My truths and lies I am My joys, my sighs I am Diminish and increase I am Chaos and peace I am A beginning, an end I am A child, a sibling, a friend I am one with love in my heart I am greater than the sum of my parts Who am I? I am you You are me We are family Honest Feedback please!

So yesterday there was a massive storm and my mom and sister were driving home and they saw the truck in front of them get struck by lightning. My mom said she saw sparks but nothing else happened to the truck.

I'm not entirely convinced that the Stormfather in the prologue was fake, but I certainly think it is a possibility, and if it is so then I agree Ishar is the most likely individual to have the power and motivation to do so, including the sensing of a Herald dying like Ash did with her father. I don't think this is a crack theory, but a fully viable one, regardless of whether it is right or wrong.

The Lopen.

Eluviani was walking through the forest, looking for a place to stay. He didn't have a backpack, or anything he could use as a bag, so all his stuff was out in plain sight. Sitting right there on top of his hands as he walked. He was an easy target but he wasn't about to leave his food behind. At first he just followed the stream, but eventually concluded it didn't lead to any river. With his luck it would turn out he was a stone's throw from finding one but he still decided to get away from it in the end. He drank as much water as he could, filled the recipient one last time, and started his journey. Now this only had to last until he found another water source. It should be doable. Even if he found nothing, he could come back to the stream, albeit after a presumably taxing journey back with no water. But the option was there and that comforted him. The arena shouldn't be impossibly big or anything either, the organizers would want them to run into each other after all. It had been peaceful so far though. He didn't know if it was normal to last two days without an encounter or if they just didn't show that on the broadcast. Maybe it was deemed too boring for the people in the Capital. The reminder that he was just a piece of entertainment dampened his good mood, but of course, it wasn't meant to last anyway. He did want to enjoy some peace if he could but, eventually he would need to fight for his life. That or let himself be killed. Showing no resistance to his future attacker was probably as good a sign of rebellion as any. That was a depressing thought. As he walked he found some berry bushes, the same kind he had eaten before. They were practically full too. Eluviani was already starting to get tired of berries but he couldn't be picky. The sponsor's food wouldn't last long and his hunting abilities had proven to be nonexistent so far. This could be his salvation in a pinch. He put his bundle down and started picking. As much as he hated to admit it, this was a pretty good find, really. He'd end up hating berries for the rest of his life but with so many of these he could probably survive a day or so. He hoped. The trees in the arena had pretty big leaves too, it wasn't too difficult to roll them into a cone to carry the berries more easily. Satisfied with his new treasure he walked back to his bundle. Which was gone. Eluviani hadn't walked ten paces away from it, he'd left it right beside the first bush. Now it had disappeared without so much as a rustle. It felt like a sick joke, his newly acquired backup food was now his only food. Great way to lose a sponsor too, giving away their gift like that. And now that he didn't have any water he really was on a timer. He told himself to stay calm but was punching a tree before realizing it. It hurt, and he didn't want to break his hand. He forced himself to stop. His body stopped moving and he made himself breathe to try and cool down. It worked, externally. Inside he was wishing the thief would just come out so he could continue what he had started on the tree. Calm down, don't be childish. With a sigh, Eluviani picked up the berries he had dropped when he started hitting the tree, and kept walking. Every drop of his good mood now gone.

Hey @Frustration "Theory" and "Logic" are not always the same from context to context. Specifically, logical scrutiny is going to follow different norms between Science and Literature. Heck, even scientific fields have vastly different definitions of evidence (take the definition of "acceptable statistical chance" between Medical Guidelines vs Particle Physics. They are VASTLY different when defining what is likely "evidence") We know, as theorizers, that certain elements are being deliberately hidden from us by Brandon for narrative reasons. Because there is explicit deception on the part of the author, we will never have all the premises and bits of evidence necessary to prove a twist. We even known that some elements may never be explicitly explained. We are not operating in a world where all the details are extant or provable. We are not in a particle collider. We are absolutely rational agents if we utilize both inductive and deductive reasoning when searching for "intentional deception" or "literary device". The author has intentionally seeded the stories with twists, and there are different logical tools to find things like that. It is rational to gather evidence bit by bit and to determine what consistent statements follow from that evidence. However, we know the author at times will intentionally hide, twist, or misrepresent the evidence, so this will never be satisfactory. it is rational to start with a statement considered true as presented to us by the Author, and to examine the evidence/premises that are needed to support that conclusion. This is actually quite useful, as we know the author will intentionally make us believe things that are later shown to be false. We should not always trust the author as he is known to be intentionally deceptive. If you know there is a high potential for deception, you take the statement they give you and you rip apart the evidence they have provided. As the Italic Voice is being explicitly deceptive to Gavilar, and since this is extremely new behavior compared to the previous 4 books, I am going into it with skepticism. This is the perfect opportunity for an author to deceive the reader.

I agree it is strange. Do the Kholin's have a unique bloodline? Sure the Sunmaker almost "united them" but then so did the Shin that one time. Oh crem. I forgot about the Unite Them voice: Who isn't in on the Tanavast Zoom Call?

Gotta say I’m with @Anomander Rake and @teknopathetic on this one @Frustration. The statement that the entity purporting to be the Stormfather in the SA5 prologue is not, in fact, the Stormfather is enough to constitute a theory. And @teknopathetichas undeniably offered a substantial amount of evidence in support of that theory. Is it a full fledged, complex theory? Maybe not because it’s a draft and we don’t have much more to go off of at this point. It’s more like a basic theory designed to spark discussion and speculation. As @Anomander Rake said, you may disagree with the persuasiveness of the evidence, but you can’t seriously say there is no evidence for the premise that the entity we see interacting with Gavilar is not the Stormfather. I’m not nearly as active on the Shard as you @Frustration (maybe no one is?) but I’ve been around long enough and read enough of your comments to develop an opinion on your style of discourse. I don’t know you and so wouldn’t presume that you intend this, but wanted to let you know that your terse comments simply poking holes in others’ theories often come across as rudely dismissive. And I think they push what should be fun discussion and theorizing about stories and characters we all love into the realm of argument. So maybe we cool it on the semantics about whether or not something constitutes a theory and just let folks have a discussion.

I have but I'll repeat myself. Heralds cannot sense each other suffer non-permenant death. Kalak was still alive but none of the others Ishar included could tell he was alive. To say otherwise is to directly contradict the books. The only other individuals who could possibly tell if a Herald died are the fused(Highly unlikely) Which could not be there as they were bound to Braize, Odium, who can barely connect to people with the Everstorm, and does not have the guile, nor the personality to pull this off, Culitvation, who acts nothing like the Stormfather in the prologue, and Honor, who died and his cognitive shadow fused with the Stormfather. Ishar did not have his blade at this time. The Unmade only recently appeared in Shinovar per Taravangian, and disreguarding that his experiments with spren only started a few months before RoW. So him hijacking the Visions is out of the question. The Stormfather would definatly have noticed someone hijacking the visions, so him doing nothing about it is weird. Additionally Whoever Gavilar is speaking to has the ability to bring people into the visions, and end them on command. The only being we know with the power to do that is the Stormfather. The Stormfather shows the ability to see the future, something Ishar definatly cannot do. But we know the Stormfather can due to his comments to Kaladin before Szeth attacked in WoR. The Stormfather obeyed Gavilar, something Ishar would never do. How would Ishar have even formed a Connection with Gavilar without touching him? And how would he maintain it? Every other time a Bondsmith has used Connection it has been temporary, why is this the exception?

Also, I wont be that active in the summer, mostly because I have an 8 hour job each weekday. Sooo june third is start of that job.

133 rep and 133 posts... Cool!

While all the arguments for the stormfaker are sound and certainly possible, one reason I'm in the "real stormfather, prior character development" field is that brandon likes to deconstruct, reconstruct and justify the fantasy tropes. And one of them is the jackass genie, the powerful supernatural entity that's bound to help you, but will try not to. I mean, the stormfather is not particularly cooperative with Dalinar, he withold information and often fights back for no particular reason. And the stormfather would be killed by odium; he's got even more to lose than humans. Why the stormfather would be so obstructive? And if this prologue features the real stormfather, it makes perfect sense. The stormfather tried to cooperate, he tried to give gavilar all he needed. In turn, gavilar swindled him and tried to use him and his power for personal gain. The stormfather got a lot more mistrustful of humans, and he's been oppositive partly as a test of character to make sure dalinar is really committed, and partly for fear of being taken advantage of again. it's the perfect setup to how the stormfather behaves now

Good evening Alleyverse! I present to you a parody of “Master of the House” from Les Miserables. Special thanks to @Fatebreaker for the chorus. Enjoy Master of the Lab

Points in Favor of Ishar: On Foreshadowing The Stormfather tells Dalinar that the Stormfather never much liked Ishar. I think this feeling of distrust is a crumb that leads us to Ishar Piggybacking on the Stormfather's visions and messing around with Honour's intentions. We have hints dropped that Ishar was lying about the Surgebinders returning. We learn that Ishar likely lied to Nale (who may have the ability to detect lies), and therefor is capable of tricking almost anyone. We have Ishar introduced in RoW as a threat We have temporarily-sane Ishar directly mention restoring the Oathpact at the end of RoW On Gavilar's Inconsistent View on Human Mannerisms Gavilar states that he " wasn't certain if the spren could be said to have human mannerisms. Sometimes, it seemed so—and others, it seemed completely unfathomable. Today, though… That posture turned away, hinted at in the warping of the air. So Gavilar is sensing some inconsistency here. To me this was the dead giveaway that something was up, especially with the word "posture" On the Insanity of Heralds While the heralds are clearly insane, the heralds do seem to believe that Ishar had somehow remained sane So, a herald themselves would likely say "most" of the heralds are insane We get the entity saying "Immortality, the Stormfather said. It wears on men and women. It weathers them and their minds. Most of the Heralds are insane now—with unnatural ailments of the mind, unique to the circumstances of their ancient natures" There is no reason to think the Stormfather would consider any of the Heralds sane. However, Ishar himself would use a phrase such as this To me, the use of the word "most" is a slip on the Stormfaker's part On Immortality The voice seems to be genuinely concerned about the costs of immortality. Would the Stormfather truly have a strong understanding of that kind of loss? Should an unbonded Spren have that understanding? Consider this morose line and imagine if it more suits an eternal by nature cognitive entity like a Spren or a human cognitive entity like a Herald: Everyone you know will be dust by the time you return… (I did not add the ... ) The stormfather would have no experience with returning to a land and realizing all of your friends have turned to dust over time. Ishar however would know exactly how that feels, and would likely get a bit emotionally upset at considering it again. We also have: Eternal life. A legacy that spanned millennia—because you were there to shepherd it It is not so grand as you think it to be, the spren said. Which gave him pause. On the Ten Fools Motif: Gavilar says that the Heralds staying on Braize and getting tortured "are the ten fools for that...if I cannot die, I will be the greatest king this world has ever known. Why lock my knowledge and leadership away on another world?" But then shortly after when Gavilar says "Who are you", the entity states: "The biggest fool of them all, the Stormfather said. And the thing that has miscalculated. GOODBYE GAVILAR. I HAVE SEEN WHAT IS TO COME AND I WILL NOT PREVENT It So, grammatically Gavilar says the Herlads are the 10 fools, and the voice holds onto this notion, and when questioned about their identify proceeds to say "I am the biggest fool of them all" There is an earnest and uncomplicated reading of that where we can take this to mean the voice has just admitted to being a herald. If anything, it is a bit hard to consider why the real Stormfather would say something like that... On The Font Change With the fool line, there is a font change "The biggest fool of them all, the Stormfather said. And the thing that has miscalculated. GOODBYE GAVILAR. I HAVE SEEN WHAT IS TO COME AND I WILL NOT PREVENT It" The CAPS sounds exactly like the regular Stormfather we have come to expect. In particular, it sounds like when the Stormfather told Dalinar about smashing the Everstorm into the Highstorm. The caps-voice is how the Stormfather usually talks both in terms of style (caps for unbonded people) and in terms of tone (i dont care) This, to me, is evidence that the Italics are Ishar and the CAPS ARE THE STORMFATHER We also have Gavilar saying that the Stormfather seemed confused sometimes and that the whole thing was not going as expected. The Italics voice does not seem confused at all IMO. However, the CAPS voice would likely be confused as all hell at whatever was going on. The CAPS voice gives no information and seems to not care at all, which exactly the grumpypants demeanor Dalinar AND Syl have ascribed to the Stormfather. And the CAPS match the WoR Stormfather in intention. The Stormfather we know was not willing to do a damn thing to prevent the desolation from coming. He was just doing the minimal amount of work Honour obligated for him to do. We also have Gavilar mention that the voice does not manifest the same way all the time: "He looked around the small room, but the Stormfather was invisible today, not appearing as a shimmer as he sometimes did." The shimmer is "sometimes" and not usually. So to me, the shimmer is the Stormfather and the invisible is Ishar. According to the Coppermind for Stomlight 1-4, "The Stormfather has two different "modes" of speech. He uses small caps when talking to those unbonded to him, or when speaking so that everyone can hear him. He speaks normally when communicating directly with Dalinar after the latter becomes a Bondsmith" So if we believe the Coppermind, Italics is something bonded or close to Gavilar and CAPS is the unbonded Stormfather. As we see both, there appear to be two voices being used. The entity specifically says Gavilar and it are not bonded, so this cannot be explained by assuming the bond was severed And as well, the italics voice does return after the CAPS event. Dalinar also hears "Unite Them" in his mind, but the Stormfather is unable to detect this voice. This means that it is possible to send a voice to someone near the Stormfather without the Stormfather detecting it. On the Personality With Gavilar, we never once hear the voice "rumble". All the Stormfather ever does with Syl, or Kal, or Dalinar is rumble is grumpiness. The Stormfaker is a lot of things, but he isn't grumpy. Before S5, we have the Stormfather talk to Syl, Kal, and Dalinar. Between those 3 people, we see a clear and consistent personality. Do we think Syl, Kal, and Dalinar would believe the Stormfather to say things like: That depends, the Stormfather said in his mind, upon your definition of lies. Many who name it such believed what they said. "I regret," the Stormfather said, "the way I have treated you. I should not have been so accommodating. It has made you lazy" You do not consider with reverence the position you seek, the Stormfather said. I feel…you are not the one that I need. That I decided to find. You are the one I have chosen “You’ve never challenged what I’m doing,” Gavilar said. “I would have thought that returning the Voidbringers would be opposed to your very nature.” Opposition, sometimes, is needed, the Stormfather said. You will need someone to fight, should you take the position I am offering you. And then…she fell. She was too small a being, not strong enough, to uphold an entire people. It all came crashing down, and so some brave men and women—Radiants—did something that had to be done, trapping Mishram in a gemstone to prevent her from destroying all of Roshar. The side effect of that event created the parshmen. But what would Syl believe her father to say? I think Syl would for sure believe: GOODBYE GAVILAR. I HAVE SEEN WHAT IS TO COME AND I WILL NOT PREVENT It" And as mentioned before, this entity is wistful about immortality, which is not something that fits a spren's personality or the Stormfather's personality as Syl, Kal, or Dalinar would understand it. It is a lot to believe that the Stormfather has been tricking Lasting Integrity, Syl, Kal, and Dalinar. And not only that, but has been doing so consistently between them. Gavilar's experience is the odd one out, and I think Gavilar's should be the suspect one. On the Visions The Real Stormfather famously does next to nothing when it comes to explain the visions to anyone. So, if the entity is Ishar, Ishar doesn't even have to watch Gavilar inside the visions. It took FOREVER before the Stormfather gave any information to Dalinar about what the visons were, so Ishar would not need to be involved there at all. Ishar could have noticed that Gavilar was getting visions from the OG Stormfather and then snuck in when the Highstorm left the area. But, if we want Ishar to be involved in the visions in some way as well, that is easy. These visions are famously easy to hijack. We have: Whatever it is that forces the Stormfather to give the visions to candidates like The Potter and Dalinar. There may be some way to force the system to give you visions. Lift being able to enter the visions at will for unexplained reasons that might be related to her being a touch more in the Cognative Realm Odium being able to bruit-force his way into the visions The Stormfather being able to bring in multiple people at once The Nohadon vision that doesn't match the other (which means you might be able to fake new visions if you wanted) Sensing a Herald Die: Ishar is both a Bondsmith AND the Bondsmith that forged the Oathpact. There is no entity on Roshar that we know of that has a stronger connection or understanding of the Oathpact. If Ishar created it, then he may be more aware of its operations than the other heralds. Ishar was also a Bondsmith of sorts on Ashyn, so we don't even need to assume a Spren like the Stormfather was involved in anyway. Dalinar sees the lines of connection emanating out of Ishar that represent the Oathpact even though Brandon has said the Oathpact is finished. We don't see Dalinar describe Taln or Shallash with bonds eminating out which I find odd. If Ishar made the Oathpact, it is completely within reason that his connection to it would be stronger, kind of like Ishar is the base where all the threads meet. As he is the base or the creator, he would feel a tug in the Oathpact more strongly that anyone else. The Stormfather has no known connection to the Oathpact whatsoever. Not once has the Stormfather ever mentioned being a part of the Oathpact. And again to that point, there is no mention of the Stormfather reacting to the True-Death of Jezrian. Dalinar doesn't hear a scream from the Stormfather or anything like that. If we take our in-text evidence, the Stormfather is in no-way connected to the Heralds and their Oathpact before this Stormlight 5 Prologue. Edit: some are talking about the Stormfather being a Sliver now. Dalinar: If we are going to say that the Stormfather can feel the Oathpact, then why do we not see a hint of Dalinar sensing it more? The argument from Stormfather-Believers is that the Stormfather would feel it because the Stormfather has absorbed Honour somewhat. But Odium does not say The Stormfather can free Odium, but that it is Dalinar. We also see Dalinar accepting Oaths, so he apparently is able to sense or change some bonds with Radiants. Dalinar likely would have telegraphed the "RAAAARG" that the Italics Voice had felt in SP5. Basied on this, I put forth that this is something Stomfather Believers need to sort out on their side. My Conclusion: Ishar is the only known being to have a unique and powerful connection to the Oathpact. Before S5, it would have been a crack theory to think the Stormfather would feel the death of a herald in anyway. However, believing that the forger of the Oathpact would be temporaily rattled by a herald's death is completely within reason. As the Heralds were made BEFORE spren-bonds, there is no reason to assume the Stormfather was involved in anyway. And adding to that, as Ishar was a Bondsmith before coming to Roshar, there are many things we don't know about how Ishar's powers work. On Motivation to Make a New Herald Ishar, after a Bondsmith oath is sworn in RoW, tells Dalinar directly that Ishar wants to reforge the Oathpact. So as far as we have any evidence for, Ishar is the only Cosmere-Aware and powerful entity to openly state that their motivation is to reforge the Oathpact. Ishar seems to be more sane in this moment, so maybe his mental health has taken a deep nosedive in the past 6 years, but he was able to remember his goal in that moment. Ishar started his Tu'kar Godking madness almost exactly when Gavilar and Chana died, so we have a timeline of motivation and sanity changes that fits perfectly. Ishar ahs also sworn never to work with a Kolin again, which may cause some issues moving forward and cause Ishar to be more hostile than he should be normally. EDIT: I think Insane Ishar is taking wont ever work with Dalinar while in contrast Sane Ishar is able to see that the potential in Dalinar is worth trying-out And going beyond this, the Heralds have a in-text desire to get off Roshar, so creating neo-heralds to swap out with is a direct and stated goal of the 9 heralds who abandoned the Oathpact. The Stormfather, before Stormlight 5, has never once showed any interest in creating new heralds at all in any way. To say "he is hiding it" or "he changed his mind" is a lot of handwaving in my opinion. The Stormfather in WoR has given up completely. The entity we see in S5 has a plan that it needs to rush through or change dramatically. If we are to believe the entity is the real Stormfatherm then when the Stormfather crashed the Highstorm into the Everstorm, was that just the Stormfather tricking Dalinar somehow? Why would the Stormfather both be trying to make new Heralds AND destroy the biggest army capable of resisting the Voidbringers? Reconciling WoR with S5 takes too much handwaving for me to buy it. My Conclusion: Ishar in RoW is the only powerful entity we have that has on-screen stated that they would like to reforge the Oathpact. Before S5, it would be a cracktheory to believe the Stormfather had anything to do with the heralds, while it was textually explicit that ishar thought reforging the Oathpact was a worthwhile endeavor. On Tu'kar For reason's unknown, Ishar decides to head to Tu'kar and declare himself the God-king. This happens almost exactly after Gavilar's feast and Chana's death. We have to explain why Ishar changed his behaviour almost exactly when Chana and Gavilar die. Everyone has to explain this (both Stormfather Believers and Stormfaker Believers) So we see a change in Ishar's known behavior right when these events occur, so we are able to postulate that he had his motivations changed around that time as well which fits my theory just fine. Even those who don't think Ishar is the Stormfaker do think ishar's behaviour seems to indicate he knew something had happened on the night of Gavilar/Chana's death. Ishar does change his behavior after Chana dies. He heads to Tu'kar and starts the wars there by declaring himself the God King. In my opinion, Ishar went a bit crazy and started believing the lies he had been telling Gavilar, and now Ishar is a complete crazy mess believing he actually is the avatar of the almighty like Gavilar thought he was. Ishar's intended to go to Tu'kar to rush his plan and explore pulling into the cognitive realm, but as Kelek mentions, the mental illness appears to be getting worse with the heralds of late, and Ishar took a HUGE dip in sanity once he started messing about in Tukar And as for Ishar's insanity, who knows what the death of a Herald, be it Chana or the true death of Jezrian, might do to the person who forged the Oathpact. We simply don't know what that might cause to his sanity. So, with all this, I feel it is NOT a Cracktheory. I actually think the Stormfather Believers have way more explaining to do than this reading of the text does.

1. Dalinar (I mean come on, honourable but troubled knightly king saving the world) 2. Kelsier (because who wants to stop the shenanigans) 3. Hoid (Participation award) Don't know past that.

To my fellow sharders who have braces, do you ever just not realize the wire is poking out of the back bracket and it starts hurting one morning? Then feel the inside of your mouth (with freshly washed hands) to realize that there is a storming hole in your cheek? Anyway, what have y’all been up to?

I agree with you. I love this dark stalker.

There's two conversations here, that may or may not be related. The first is what Ideal Dalinar is on. The second is if Unity as a Shard makes sense. I agree that Dalinar is likely on the 3rd Ideal, for the other reasons mentioned, that he doesn't have Plate and because the only known 4th Ideal Radiants that Raboniel was worried about was Jasnah and Kaladin. Shardhood may or may not be related to what level Dalinar has sworn to. For the second, what would be considered a Shard? Could Dalinar and the Stormfather jointly be considered a proto-Shard when they are operating together using their power? Dalinar clearly has not vaporized and so we can assume that he has not Ascended, but he's a person with ties to all three Realms that has joint access with the Stormfather who holds a large portion of Honor's power. I'd guess Dalinar hasn't Ascended for the reason that he doesn't normally hold the bulk of the power and he hasn't been overloaded enough to vaporize. That's a question that I'm not sure the answer to, can multiple Vessels control a single Shard? If it is possible, I'd guess it would be really tricky for the Vessels to be united enough to not cause conflicting agendas within the Shard, which I assume would be bad. Dalinar at the end of Oathbringer was worrying enough that Rayse ran, and that should be an indication that the level of power that Dalinar has is on level with a Shard I think. So... maybe when they are working together as Bondsmith, they are in a limited fashion functionally a Shard? If they are, then they are definitely restricted to following Dalinar's Oaths of unity, and might rightly be called Unity. My guess for "We killed you!" is that Dalinar and the Stormfather, possibly as Dalinar touches the Spiritual Realm while swearing his Ideal, looked like Honor's Shard to Odium (maybe even a zombie/Frankenstein Shard, I dunno, this is a weird roundabout hacked way to become a Shard if that is indeed what they are together). I don't think that the Shard Unity came together momentarily before splintering again, rather they may functionally be a Shard when united and working together, but that doesn't happen that often so they aren't utilizing that power very effectively compared to a typical Shard. The power and Vessel are separate beings, which is weird and very unstable. It's actually kind of worrying, because Dalinar can make decisions such as accepting Oaths with limited access to the mind and senses of the Stormfather. Imagine having a Shard's power but without a Shard's senses or knowledge to know the actual effects of what you were doing. Further thought and spoilers for Mistborn Secret History What does everyone think?

@Ixthos, I agree with you, but I wasn’t trying to say that any denomination is more likely to be saved than another, I was recognizing than anyone can be saved if they accept Jesus as the only path to salvation through his death and resurrection, and asking about denominations to understand the viewpoints of the others on this thread.

Welcome to the shard! We’re glad to have you here!

Do we know that this is true? It seems to be almost certain that they all were at least of the Third Ideal. Under normal circumstances the progression for a Radiant goes: 1st Ideal to become a squire, 2nd Ideal, then 3rd Ideal if they're ready for it and a spren is available to bond. We know that the Skybreakers operate this way in the current day and the Windrunners have begun operating this way out of necessity because there have been so few Honorspren willing to bond. It's easy to lose sight of this because in the present day all of the Orders are starting over from scratch, but in the time leading up to and before the Recreance I think it's unlikely that many people, if anyone at all of the 1st or 2nd ideal had a spren. Especially since humans outnumber spren and the squires were probably waiting on a Radiant to be killed so that their spren would become availabel to bond.

Why don’t we use Brandon Sanderson’s books as units of weight and length on this site? It seems like a missed opportunity.

How terrifying would it be if his fifth truth was "we can't win."

Sorry, this is anything but a concise thought. Obviously people will have vastly different opinions, and Lirin goes out of his way to tear Kaladin down. But it's pretty harsh to say Lirin has no redeeming qualities. Yes, he fails to understand his son at all, too caught up in who he wants Kaladin to be. He put Kal, as a child, into a line of work that was inevitably going to mentally/emotionally cripple somebody who cannot separate out his emotions and sense of responsibility from the prices of doing what is necessary or being unable to prevent horrors. Lirin was emotionally manipulative and abusive even in Kal's childhood, withholding approval unless his son did exactly as he wanted. Adding responsibility, withholding approval, and sneering at the protection Kaladin attempted even back when Kal chose to go into battle with Tien was pretty much a recipe for exacerbating mental health issues in someone with Kal's personality and clinical depression. Doing more of the same now, only with added derision for Kaladin's choices to kill to protect, is despicable. Lirin can't pretend inflicting this kind of emotional pain is better than inflicting physical violence. So yeah, I can't stand Lirin because of the way he treats his son, but how does Lirin doing more damage to Kaladin than any enemy (except possibly Moash) make him have no redeeming qualities? Unless you explain otherwise, I'm assuming your next comment's a big part of the reason you'd think this. But first, Lirin was a surgeon long before those orders reappeared. He saved lives, even if he destroyed his own family with his insistence on remaining in Hearthstone. Lirin taught Kaladin to do the right thing, to help people. Admittedly, he managed to inflict some pretty heavy sense of inferiority on Kaladin in the process, and no amount of positives in raising Kal counteract the negatives inflicted by devaluing both sons when they weren't doing exactly what Lirin wanted. But saying the redeeming qualities don't balance out the good lessons and deeds is very different from saying there are none. And second, how do 50-some magical healers make other types of doctors pointless? Even assuming several thousand healers some day, they can't be everywhere. Should they become widespread, there will be a necessary limitation of their services based on a Radiant-decided system that will probably initially center around getting to those fighting against Odium or those in allied strongholds. Surgeons will still be broadly needed for a long time. Maybe always, in more farflung areas. The Tower might be one of those places where they're rendered redundant sooner rather than later, but there are plenty of other places to help out. On the other end of the spectrum, though, I don't get how to not understand the vitriol against Lirin if you can understand disagreeing. A person who tells slaves to know their place, do their jobs well, and not try to escape is pretty reprehensible in the real world. And this is what Lirin did to Kal. Additionally, emotionally abusing a child, and continuing the trend when he's grown, isn't something people are able to avoid getting upset about. As for Lirin, wishing not to do harm is great, but repeatedly demeaning Kaladin for choosing to fight (when he had little choice most of the time), and calling his suicidally depressed son a monster, makes Lirin a hypocrite at best. Hurting someone with a spear does a lot less damage than that did to Kaladin. But mostly, how is Kaladin killing an enemy soldier who swung an axe at his head an unprovoked attack? No context is needed. Defending himself or others makes it not murder. Letting the other enemy go, especially by putting himself and his family more at risk, makes Kaladin not a monster. This should have been obvious to somebody as capable of segregating emotions and reason as Lirin, making the choice to call Kaladin a monster a calculated attack, an intentional act of harm targeting Kaladin's known weak points of self-perception. Yeah, Lirin thought Kaladin could – should – have backed down and let the enemy take his friend, since he didn't know they would hurt Teft...immediately, at least. Assuming Kaladin had been able to think clearly, rather than sleep-deprived and in the chronic hypervigilant state of PTSD under any stressor, maybe he would have reasoned some response other than fighting as more appropriate. I doubt Kaladin could have just let Teft be taken, though, because Kaladin's emotions and logic are too intertwined. Which Lirin knew. Or had no excuse not to know, at least, given all his comments about Kal needing to grow callouses for surgery. Lirin is far more sociopathic than Kaladin. Not to say that this is a bad thing for somebody who has to cut people open to save their lives. Functions like this are surely why sociopathy exists, and it's a useful tool if not taken too far. But for Lirin to expect his son to be able to separate out emotion and thought now, in an emotionally fraught moment, when Kal never has before is irrational. This is where Lirin's own emotions overwhelm him. To lash out at Kaladin for being who he always has been is probably a fear reaction, but because it builds on previous comments, it's not just that. It's also willfully cruel, targeting his son's insecurities and fears about himself that Lirin has repeatedly stoked. Additionally, Kaladin seems to believe in negative responsibility in a way Lirin simply doesn't. Lirin was fine with letting Roshone's son die because he couldn't save him, but Kaladin always reacted viscerally to those who couldn't be saved in that kind of necessary triage. Lirin might consider it worse to kill even to protect, but Kaladin couldn't live with himself if somebody died because he failed to protect them. Killing in order to prevent somebody else from dying is a sacrifice Kaladin has to make, for his conscience, or feel as if he killed the ones he wanted to save. So, to Kaladin, letting Teft die would be as bad as murdering him, whereas Lirin didn't seem to care about that potential consequence as long as his son's hands weren't dirty...and the clinic wasn't bloodied. Lirin considered Kaladin guilty for the things he had done; Kaladin considered himself guilty both for the things he had done and those he had failed to do or prevent. Lirin was fine with pacifism because he didn't buy into negative responsibility as heavily, whereas standing by and doing nothing tore Kaladin apart. Those of us who bothered to get to know Kaladin at all, unlike his father, have every right to be furious at Lirin for tearing his son down repeatedly as if he thought that would let him rebuild Kaladin the way he wanted. This is something done to soldiers or others who are needed to be deindividualized cogs in a machine. It's not something you do to your child if you care about them as a person rather than some sort of extension of your own dreams. We don't just understand Lirin, we also understand the consequences of his actions for someone suffering from sometimes-debilitating depression and self-castigation. Knowing that, we don't just disagree with Lirin; we're upset with him, too. Because he seems to understand those consequences, if not as well as we do – yet he chooses to treat Kaladin like this anyway. Just...yeah. Some fathers don't realize what they're doing to their kids, and it's possible to be more frustrated than furious. Possible. But Lirin spent years essentially telling his son he was too sensitive, trying to subject him to enough horror to get over the inability to shut off emotional responses in moments of crisis. Then he claims Kaladin committed murder by fighting back instead of rolling over, and calls him a monster for killing just the one person who threatened Kaladin when he was in a hypervigilant state. Lirin knows enough about his son that he doesn't need to understand the PTSD and the depression to know he's hurting Kaladin; and yet he keeps doing it. tl;dr Lirin's bad at being a father to someone with that kind of clinical depression, but he's useful as a surgeon. He is not overall a terrible person, but more narrowly is, and deserves the vitriol, for calling Kal a monster and a murderer for self-defense. And @Bigmikey357 pretty much said everything that needed said.

The problem I see with Lirin is that he chose a viewpoint that physical violence is always wrong, and now he refuses to grow or change from there. Sure, jumping straight to aggression is bad, and you should avoid that. But you should also maybe not let yourself be conquered by an army of insane Fused led by a god intent on destroying your civilization. Also, it's just not acceptable to treat your son the way he does, and getting some face paint isn't going to help much.

When 'spiked punch' has a whole new meaning...