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  1. oh hey its my technical shardiversary coolio my profile says nov 17 2017 but i actually started using the account on may 5 2020 (just look at my first ever and second ever post) been a good 2 years yall ur the best
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  2. Day #23 I found my watch! Yesterday I took a longer than 7 minute shower and I was really anxious, but since I went to sleep right afterward in the morning I didn't really freak out at all but now I am so yay Today I get to go to the professional neck snapper and hopefully my headache and back pain will get better. If I was a serial killer, you'd be the last.
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  3. and by that I even include the Kholin family. Now I do not mean this a criticism of the book, as it makes perfect sense and fits the Alethi society. But in my current read-through of the SA, the horrible treatment of Kaladin really stood out to me. My first time reading I got frustrated with Kal's decisions a lot, but this time I saw myself agreeing with him a lot more. The guy is a hero, he just saved Dalinar, Adolin and 2600 of their men from CERTAIN death. The Kholin princedom would be crippled without him, half their family and almost all their military leaders dead. He did that not just risking his life, but doing what should have been an absolute death sentence- charging the plateau with a single bridge. And yet, people just completely ignore this act- most seem uncomfortable about it and sweep it under the rug. We see this when Adolin tells the story to Shallan. The fact that Shallan hasnt heard of this despite spending some time on the Shattered Plains is itself a huge condemnation of Alethi high society. He is still being treated as inferior by the lighteyes and the Kholins, despite the fact they still have a gigantic debt to him. Now, the worst offender of this is obviously Elhokar, but I dont think we can absolve the rest of them either. One example is when Kal tells Dalinar the story of Amaram. The guy already proved himself trustworthy- when he charged into (what should be) certain death to save you and your men despite having 0 reason to do so, except that his own honor compelled him to do it. He already showed you extraordinary things- and yet you are not willing to even consider he's telling the truth until the arena fight happens? Giving up Oathbringer was a great thing to do, yes- but you still owe him your life. At least dont dismiss him so easily. Another example of what i mean is the arena fight. In my first read-through i cringed at Kaladin demanding his boon, as did most readers I'd guess. But to be honest, he deserves a boon just as much as Adolin does. He jumped, armed with only a spear and a knife, into a fight with 6 shardbearers and came out winning! This is unheard of, and yet again swept under the rug by the lighteyes. Dalinar's defence of him when talking to Elhokar is also not nearly forceful enough. Again, they just put him into prison and ignore the fact that without him Sadeas would probably be king by now. I do not discount that Dalinar (and Renarin) try their best, stil love their characters. But their internalized racism (for the lack of a better word) against darkeyes really shows in WoR. Adolin is actually somewhat of an exception here- after the arena fight. But I totally understand Kal's attitude toward him. He doesnt show any gratefulness towards Kal at all. Generally, people get frustrated about Kaladin's behavior in this book- but I can totally understand him. After all the men he's saved and heroic acts he's done (including making the Assassin in White flee and the mentioned arena fight) he is still being treated as inferior. Alethi elite is insufferable!
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  4. Poem # 30 Remembrance of Hues Creatures shatter the walls of onyx that surround the halls of mortal thought and the hunting grounds of vengeful deities. Blazing pillars that bend in shadow bear bestial busts upon their crowns. They stare hungrily out upon the realm piercing city walls and invading the calm of the land of Hypnos. Mountains, forests, valleys, and glens branded with power beyond the skill of even the imaginations of terrestrial souls hide hunters that stalk the realm. Taut silence consumes any who would venture into this profanely sacred place. Boar legged men and women whose serpentine eyes and leonine heads carry the tools of rage that pacify worlds. Blades drip with the blood of fallen myriad and drown regions that are now forever fallow. Shattered armies who are prostrated before temples aflame speak no more forbidden blasphemies. Bread resides now in the realm of the divine and no longer in the realm of those who can end. Dawn approaches with its blinding light and instantly dispels the most vile of shrouds. Running shadows race with the winds pushing them across accursed and demanding earth. Primordials arise and are swept aside by the power of the chariot of the rising sun. Flame washes away scars that have penetrated the heart of the world and inflicted the most twisting of agonies. Into the day all step forward to see all that they were always denied. Hues so soft bring forth orchards of cherry and golden apples as the very sun itself. Groves of emerald bursting forth in ways previously regarded as legend fill the mouths of those whose chains glitter in ruins. From their throats erupt songs that drown their jailers as they fade from where they fell. Those monsters that first removed the manacles of night are lost in mystery. Pillars once bent ascend into the aether as eyes that once saw now truly see daylight once more.
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  5. Szeth beat two full shardbearers, dozens of people with halfshards, and a man with a shardblade at once, Kholins stand no chance.
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  6. So! It's come to my attention that very little attention had come to y'all about this new RP: Do me a scudding solid and join my Withergeist-hunting crew. (Please) ((Also do it for Star)) (((If Star's the kinda person you'd want to do things for)))
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  7. First off, I mostly agree with you. Most lighteyes are jerks to darkeyes. It's a simple fact, and yes, I agree, it is basically racist. But sometimes you have to look at both sides of the issue at the same time. Take Amaram for example. Kaladin tells Dalinar of how Amaram is a storming thief and that everything that Amaram stands for is a lie. When looking at it from Kaladin's perspective, Dalinar immediately dissmisses any notion that Amaram is not honorable, and he is only humouring Kaladin. But when you look at it from Dalinar's perspective, Amaram is man you've trusted for many years and the only person who has said anything bad about him is a man you only met a few months ago who clearly has a grudge against Amaram. So in reality, I think Dalinar had (mostly) the correct response to this situation. Instead of immediately calling Amaram out, Dalinar quietly investigated the man to see if anything was up. This way, Dalinar is still able to see if Amaram is honorable, but he also does not have to risk his relationship with Amaram if nothing is wrong. The only thing I think Dalinar should have done differently is to have told Kaladin what he was doing. Then the whole situation of the boon is avoided, and Kaladin eventually gets what he wants, or rather, what he deserves. I also want to point how going foward, Dalinar and many of the "honorable" lighteyes like Adolin or Navani treat Kaladin with more respect. Especially with Dalinar later on, I think he treats Kaladin more like how a general treats his lieutenant, rather than how a highborn lighteyes treats a lowborn darkeyes.
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  8. When you play shardle and you get it right, but you haven’t even read the book the word is from yet… Whhhattttt??? Totalllllly not me? *nervous laugh*
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  9. I've been entertaining the idea that Chanarach is not Shallan's mother. Chanarach is Shallan's father. Feel free to poke holes in that theory. Here's the breakdown: We know the Heralds’ madness is tied to their heraldic attributes being twisted in some way. Chana’s attributes are “Brave” and “Obedient.” Lin Davar is a paranoid man, controlling to the point he’s obsessed with being obeyed and enters a blind rage whenever someone defies him. Heralds (and other highly Invested entities) have been shown repeatedly to be more resitant to physical damage. When Shallan kills her father, she uses the blackbane her brother Wikim gave her years ago. Blackbane is stated several times and by different characters to become more potent over time. Yet, when Shallan poisons her father, not only does it not kill him and only paralyzes him, he actually begins to recover from it, which is what prompts her to strangle him instead. And when she strangles him, she uses her necklace, which for Brandon felt the need to specify on-screen was made of aluminum. I feel like this is probably relevant. Do we know for certain Chanarach is a woman? We have the portraits, which we know aren’t accurate, and that’s about it. People who know Chana (Hoid, other Heralds, Shards and spren), never refer to her as a “she”. The Stormfather doesn’t contradict Gavilar when he does, but that doesn’t mean anything, given that we know the Stormfather can lie by omission. And even if she actually is a woman, we don’t know the process used to give the Heralds a body when they return. Something could have gone wrong. We don’t know which Herald dies the night of Gavilar’s assassination. We do know that there were several of them in the palace that night, and that Szeth was on a killing spree at the time. In fact, the unknown Herald’s death happened only moments before Sadeas came to warn Gavilar.
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  10. GUYS GUYS GUYS GUYS GUYS GUYS GUYS!!!!! *takes deep breath* WHO HAs ReAd THE GIVER?!?? I just finished it. And, I think it’s in my top 5 now, and that list is pretty hard to break. IT WAS SO GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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  11. Hello 17 Shard. I have a theory about the giant spren of Iri, Cusicesh, that I haven't found anyone else propose before, so I just want to get the fandom's thoughts. I believe that Cusicesh is actually the 'dullform' of Ba-Ado-Mishrim(BAM). The piece of information that first brought this idea to me was when I was rereading Dalinar and Navani's wedding and the Stormfather appears. After he hears the wedding vows and leaves, the soldiers around Dainar "sagged, looking suddenly exhausted.". It suddenly occurred to me that the only other spren that I could remember causing tiredness in a group of people was Cusicesh of Iri. So my interest in the spren was peaked and I wondered if it might be a spren that was capable of Connection like the Stormfather, or at least similar abilities. All three Bondsmith spren have been accounted for so if it is a spren capable of great Connection Cusicesh would have to be something else. And that's when I thought about BAM. She was connected to almost every Singer on the planet at one point, so she has the ability. I dug a little deeper and tried to find out where her last location was. There's no definitive area of Roshar stated, but the epigraphs of Oathbringer Part 3 say that the Singers were feverishly fighting toward Feverstone keep during the end of the False Desolation, the Desolation BAM initiated. So it's possible that she would be in the area. Feverstone Keep has been theorizied to be near the Iri city of Rall Elorim. If this is correct, then the strike team that went after BAM would have attacked her in Iri. This is where my theory falls completely into spectulation. I believe that Melishi the Bondsmith did not trap BAM in a gemstone the same way that Dalinar trapped the Thrill. I think that Melishi only trapped her mind in the gem stone, leaving behind an impotent shell. This might be why the empowered Singers became the dullform parshmen instead of Singers without access to Voidlight, matching to what happened to what was Connecting them. After that BAM, Cusicesh now, hid away in Iri; only coming out at a certain time and looking eastward, possibly towards where the sphere containing her mind is hidden. Anyway, that's my theory. Feel free to dissect it, I'd loved to know where I'm wrong.
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  12. So as I understand it, the way awakening works is that you use breath to fill an object with investiture and give it extremely limited sentience (as investiture does), and then that object will act out whatever command you made it to do. But the investiture is the key here of course. The object is just the physical medium that gives Breath the ability to act on the world. So is that medium actually necessary? I don't think it is. We've seen that investiture can manifest in the physical realm as metals- shardblades and shardplates and ancient fabrials, atium, lerasium. So why not breath as well? I propose that you can command the breath directly to "manifest as metal", and it would do so in the form of Edglium, endowment's godmetal. Furthermore, I propose that this is how Azure's sword was made. "Manifest as metal and be as my blade". We know that originally, nightblood was an attempt to recreate a rosharan shardblade using Breath. This was done by taking a normal steel sword and loading it chock full of breath, and giving it a command. "Destroy Evil". But this isn't how shardblades are made. They're made by getting a spren to manifest in the physical realm as metal. And so, if you're trying to recreate one using Breath, then I would probably try getting breath to manifest as metal. If Azure's sword is a second attempt at this same experiment (which certainly isn't confirmed, but we at least know that the sword is "somewhat related" to nightblood). So what do you all think? Can you command breath directly, and manifest it as metal? What else interesting could you do with that? And what do you think of my theory on Azure's sword
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  13. Here's Star in the dress I designed for her. I think she looks like a fairy godmother.
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  14. *has a random desire to start a horror-themed rp* *shamefully looks at stack of dead rps that i want to return to* *looks back at great idea for a horror rp*
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  15. 1) kaladin is a hero and savior for dalinar and his army, and we only get told the story from their point of view. for sadeas, he's a traitor and terrorist who deserted his place in battle to join the enemy and undermined the whole plan. for the other highprinces? many of them would have rather seen dalinar dead. in the view of many, kaladin is somebody who took sides in a conflict that wasn't his. 2) regarding amaram, dalinar had been amaram friend for over a decade, and amaram has a spotless reputation. So, assume that a guy you hold in high esteem - someone whom you met recently, but who saved your life and gained your trust - suddenly told you that your best friend, whom you've known a very long time and have a spotless reputation, is a murdered. You certainly wouldn't believe that just on his word; yes, you won't discount this new gfriend, but you also would not just go and arrest your old friend. In fact, as an authority - somebody who passes judgment - dalinar cannot sentence someone for murder based just on someone's word. it's basic justice. Dalinar did the right thing: he investigated. I'm sure, in that situation, you'd also have tried to investigate. And he got 17 different people swearing that kaladin's story didn't check. would you trust one witness against 17 just because the one did something heroic? 3) in the arena, again, we're told from the pow of kaladin. from the public perspective, adolin has been alternative between 1v2 and 1v3 the whole time. kaladin came in and distracted one opponent for a while. sure, great skill, but the winner is adolin, with some help from kaladin. actually, renarin also kept an opponent away, it can be said that he contributed as much as kaladin. No, i actually agree that kaladin wasn't given enough credit. his battle skill is incredible. i'm sure, if he had asked for a socially-appropriate boon at a more appropriate time, he'd have gotten it. the only one truly ungrateful there is elokhar. 4) as for everything else in general, dalinar said it right: you won't change things by going around raving like a lunatic and challenging important people. kaladin is fighting an uphill battle against his whole society. not just that; he could get good recognition there; but he's pushing too hard against ingrained traditions. he keeps doing inappropriate things and insulting people and their beliefs, even when he's got no reason to. it's unsurprising that he eats up all the good credit he earned otherwise.
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  16. They are not, but Heralds work differently
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  17. Welcome to the Shard! You will find that many here are as eagerly awaiting SA5 as you are. Can't wait to hear your theories and discussions!
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  18. Day #22 Happy Star Wars Day!! Today I got really good sleep and felt super refreshed. Tomorrow I have only 13 days of school left!!!!!!!!!!! Y’all are better than a quick game of monopoly.
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  19. From the album: stuff i made

    © crowsorcerer

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  20. Minor PFP update to show the gold better. I went into my art application and made the bg white instead. I think it's better
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  21. He'd run off too fast. With one hand he clutched to a branch, and with the other he rummaged through the supplies. There was barely enough food to last him a couple days, and even less water than that. But he wasn't the least bit worried about himself. You're okay, right? Fadran pinched the bridge of his nose, breathing sharply. You have to be okay. You're okay. His eyes were fixed on the sky, waiting for the cannons to sound and roll off the lost tributes. Maybe he shouldn't have picked to wait in a tree of all things.
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  22. Lumar, Tress's planet in SP1, has 12 moons which are apparently all in geostationary orbit above oceans of their corresponding spores, at points called Lunagrees. (Sidenote: perhaps derived from perigee, the closest approach of our Moon to the Earth? Except peri- means nearest and -gee means Earth, so the etymology doesn't really work). The only possible geostationary orbits (with standard orbital mechanics) are orbits directly above the equator, so the only possible configuration is with all 12 moons orbiting in the same direction around the equator: Note: they don't technically have to be equally spaced since they are all moving at the same speed and thus will not directly collide, but they would either get gravitationally attracted to their nearer neighbor (if not equally spaced) and collide eventually, or perhaps tidal forces would pull them into equally spaced orbits over time. However, Brandon has stated in a WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/490/#e15444) that he envisioned the moons to be arranged more like the vertices of an icosahedron, equally spaced in 3d space rather than just around the equator. The icosahedron is the shape of a D20 die, which has 12 corners and 20 faces. In order for such an arrangement to be geostationary, the icosahedron would have to orbit rigidly, and below are two such symmetric configurations, which I've dubbed pointy-topped and flat-topped: Pointy-topped: this configuration has 5 fold symmetry: 2 moons over the poles, and 2x5 moons on inclined orbits. Flat-topped: this configuration has 3 fold symmetry: 4 offset rings of 3 moons each. Personally, I think the flat-topped configuration looks cooler, and is slightly more feasible: the moons are closer to the equator, and there aren't stationary hovering moons over the poles. Unfortunately, these orbits are not physical, since the moons are orbiting a central axis (i.e. cylindrically) rather than the center of mass of the spherical planet. If we instead consider the moons to be geosynchronous rather than geostationary (i.e. orbits once per day but not necessarily over exactly the same spot), and minimize non-axial angular momentum, we get this pattern (for flat-topped): This corresponds to 6 pairs of circular orbits. Unfortunately, this configuration is not actually possible, as the moons would collide over the equator. This can be clearly seen if we enter the frame rotating with the planet: But don't worry: there is a configuration for the flat-topped icosahedron that does not have the issue of colliding moons: Now, while this initially seems chaotic, it actually has more symmetry than the previous pattern. It consists of 3 groups of 4 moons in circular orbits along 3 orthogonal axes (of 3d space). And, if we enter the geosynchronous frame, we can see that the moons follow staggered orbits along figure-8 paths such that they don't collide. This is cool and all, but unfortunately this still doesn't really work with the spore oceans that Brandon has set up, which seem to require each moon to have its own ocean, and thus not share its space with other moons. Also, while the moons would form an icosahedron in the sky twice a day, they are not permanently in that nice D20 shape. Finally, I'm not certain these orbits are stable, with the moons constantly moving closer and further away from the other moons. So, in the end, we must return to the rigid icosahedral orbits, which look very cool but are not physical... yet.
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  23. Welcome to SpanReads: not your typical rereads podcast. Unlike the traditional rereads style, we won’t be going through each book chapter by chapter, but instead looking at different themes and the placement of the books within the wider cosmere. Each book on SpanReads will bring you four episodes: the first three, Reactions and Retrospectives, Character Relationships, and Magic System use in the story, will be spoilers for that book and prior books in the series, then we’ll cap things off with a full spoiler, cosmere episode. We are starting with Mistborn: The Final Empire, and this episode we're talking about our recap and reactions! This week we have Jessie (Lady Lameness), Mi'chelle (firstRainbowRose), Ian (Weiry), Rosemary (Kaymyth), Matt (Comatose), and Kadie (Aon Ene). SpanReads is a weekly series, coming every Wednesday! Check out our 2022 schedule here: https://www.17thshard.com/news/features/were-starting-a-reread-podcast-may-4th-starting-with-mistborn-1-r819/ We will also be posting SpanReads a few days early on our Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/17thshard Thumbnail cover art is from the second mass market paperback printing of Mistborn, by Chris McGrath: https://coppermind.net/wiki/File:Mistborn_Final_Empire.jpg For discussion, theories, games, and news, come to https://www.17thshard.com Come talk with us and the community on the 17th Shard Discord: https://discord.gg/17thshard Want to learn more about the cosmere and more? The Coppermind Wiki is where it's at: https://coppermind.net Read all Words of Brandon on Arcanum: https://wob.coppermind.net Subscribe to Shardcast: http://feeds.soundcloud.com/users/soundcloud:users:102123174/sounds.rss Send your Who's That Cosmere Characters to [email protected]
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  24. Another great installment! I thought it lagged a bit in the middle / got bogged down with technical stuff, but other readers might find that exciting. As I read I was excited for the fungal POV. I find that absolutely fascinating! p.6 "ball and chain" I hoped people would stop using that phrase in the future p.18 Interesting seeing people consciously make a choice to keep or even foster inequality in their society. That was blatant. Makes me dislike admins. p. 22 This las scene was a pretty jargon heavy section. I had to read slow to follow and found myself loosing interest a little. Same for the one that ends on page 25. I kept finding myself wanting skim over things, but I can see other readers getting really excited about the construction stuff. p.25 Very glad to be back in An's POV! To me, these are some of the strongest chapters and the ones where the most happens, and this one didn't disappoint. It felt like it had forward motion and made me like An more than I already do. p. 36 I care a little more about the building material from Jane’s POV, though after her intentional creation of social classes, I’m less sympathetic to her. 36-39 Nice moment between J and Ag! 39 Not a bad ending but also not one that leaves me craving the next scene or ready to keep turning the page.
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  25. So, what we really need is for brandon to answer "Can Wit eat Chouta?"
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  26. @Robin Sedai, you are an amazing person, and one of my first friends on this website. You were very kind, and accepting of me. Thank you.
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  27. To me it's always seemed that Vorinism is written as a church in a state of apostasy. It lost its divine source of truth long ago, it established itself as a political force under the guise of religion, eventually people noticed and tried to reform it, but with no divine guidance of their own they made a big mess of it... it all fits. Though that interpretation did fail me in one point. When the early books spoke of the Vorin prohibitions on future prediction stemming from the false prophets of the Hierocracy being exposed as frauds, it seemed clear that this was a thing that was lost in the Vorin apostasy, and was going to be restored, as we saw with Renarin. Having that actually come from Odium's influence and Hoid confirming that prophecy is a bad thing that people should be very wary of was quite jarring!
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  28. When you wake up and realize that you managed to go to sleep with the first two books of SA under your pillow
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  29. Hi everyone, long time no see! Turns out we weren't quite done with announcing projects we've been working on in secret... So, without further ado... Welcome to Diceborn! This is our newest show that we've been working on for a while. This series will be covering a Mistborn Adventure Game campaign played through by us at the 17th Shard. Our GM and narrator for this game will be Natasha Ence, aka Brambleberry. Character Art is by the talented Shuravf, who's work you probably recognize from the Coppermind, and the trailer was put together by our very own @Paleo. Background art is done by the one and only Connor Chamberlain. This is planned to be a limited series with a planned end (MAG as a game is heavily narrative and storytelling based) but we are hoping to keep releasing episodes to scratch your Mistborn itch until The Lost Metal comes out later this year. This is an Era 2 campaign (as you can probably tell from the trailer) and will be set shortly after Bands of Mourning. It will feature a cast of original characters and a new and original story set in Elendel and beyond. These episodes will be prerecorded and posted biweekly on the 17th Shard channel. As of announcing, we have a couple of episodes already recorded with a few more booked in for early May before we air the first episode. We'll also be releasing our Session 0 to Patreon that same day to give our Patrons a nice little peak behind the scenes. We're hoping you guys enjoy watching this game as much as we enjoyed playing it. If these are as successful as we hope they'll be, expect more series under the Diceborn name. One final thing to mention is that we will be having giveaways every episode. This will be our first time doing giveaways on our channel and I'm super excited to give you guys some free stuff! Look forward to seeing you guys in Episode 1, coming May 2022. Thanks again, and keep those dice rolling!
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  30. Not Alzheimer's, it is a psychological memory block caused by traumatic events. Yes I know the descriptions are bad, but this bugs me very much.
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  31. @Thaidakar the Ghostblood You're an awesome person! I enjoy our image war on TLPW very much, and in general playing forum games with you is a lot of fun.
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  32. So, got bored, had a thought, decided to share. (I hope this wasn't already brought up somewhere, I did a few keyword searches and didn't find anything, so here is hoping) If I, as a member of Sel, and a citizen of Arelon, decided I wanted to go Panama Canal and dig out a hundred mile river, thereby altering the landscape, could I activate a Reod? Assuming that I could, how long would it take to have an effect? I thought at first there might be a Connection issue, where the citizens of Arelon don't see it as part of their landscape, so they don't consider it "part of Arelon", but I figured since the giant chasm opening up sounded like it instantly invalidated the Aons that that might not matter. So it comes down to how much would I have to alter the landscape of Arelon before it becomes different enough to create a Reod? Also, I might need to learn how to Worldhop to avoid the army of angry Elantrians after they fix the Aons...
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  33. This isn't cringe worthy in the 'that line didn't quite work' way, it's more cringe worthy in the 'Oh my Almighty, why Kaladin? Things were going so well.' Way.
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  34. Ok, I re-read the Istow chapters, and these quotes are from Ch. 57, To Kill the Wind, and are from Kaladin's perspective: So, either she doesn't feel comfortable in allowing Kaladin to duel and beat lighteye shardbearers, or she seems reluctant and disturbed because the people she was supporting were losing. Either way, to me it seems her feelings and emotions and preferences are getting in the way of properly judging the contest, and thus Nale & the Highspren would exclude her from the Skybreakers.
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  35. But we are not discussing the Salinar duel, but the Elit one. Adolin never threatened Elit in anyway. In fact, he fought down the Thrill the whole time he was dueling him: he was not full of Odium in that fight. There a few quotes to support this. Relis did not wish to cripple Adolin because of what he did to Salinor, Relis does not care about Salinor. Relis is angry Adolin won against Elit and thus deprived his house of one Plate. Let's not mix the duels here. Everyone agrees Adolin actions were out of proportions in the first duel, but it is not what we have been discussing in the later posts. The disagreement was mostly about Adolin's choice of strategy when fighting Elit. Adolin never meant to injure Salinor. He threatened him, but never had the intention to actually kill him. Besides, if you go re-read the sequence, Adolin only threatens Salinor after being accused of cheating, after Salinor refuses to let him have his Blade. That is no excuse, of course. You should never threaten someone. He should have waited for the judge to enforce the rules. However, this event only happened during this one duel. I will make my point again, Adolin did nothing reprehensible in the Elit duel, which is what we have been discussing. Dalinar is using Adolin to assert house Kohlin's power because following their gruesome defeat, they are in a bad position. They have literally no allies and if they failed to ripost, they would have been crushed. House Kohlin had to come up with a plan even if it means playing the same game as the others. Dalinar knew this very well and was willing to use every tool at this disposition, including his son. I am unsure if Sadeas is using Relis or not. Jakamav is not Adolin's friend. Jakamav was Adolin's acquaintance when house Kohlin was in favor. Now that house Kohlin has fallen from grace, Jakamav wants nothing to do with Adolin anymore. The friendly evenings they have shared did not matter to him as he was offered the opportunity to win himself a Blade in an easy fight. As I said earlier, Adolin had little choice when he was faced with the 4 shardbearers. Yes, he could have yielded without a fight, but it would have meant giving up ALL of his family's shards without even trying. It would have mean the end of Dalinar's plan. He had to, at the very least try, which he did. He had no way of knowing his right to yield would later be compromised. You cannot put Sadeas's betrayal and Adolin's behavior during the duels on the same scale! Sadeas's single-handily caused the death of 6000 men and would have been happy to see the remaining 4000 die as well. Adolin was not to kill anyone: he was to fight duels for shards, win them and thus deprived the other houses of their leverage. Adolin did not coax anyone into fighting him: he goaded them by offering them a ridiculous among of shards, but he did not force anyone, nor did he commit any betrayal. He fought one questionable duel, but even the judges had to admit he did not break any rules. He was ruthless, but the outcome was Salinor's ego being crushed. How does that even start to compare to Sadeas's actions as a whole? Adolin did not need to trick Relis and Elit into thinking he was a bad duelist: they already had a poor opinion of him. Besides, Adolin resorted to this tactics after EVERYONE refused to fight him, including the lesser fighters. No one wanted to take part into the duels, mostly due to Ialai's influence and bribes. However, the fact remains most duelists never took Adolin seriously. The first fight he managed to secured was an insult as he had to wager both his Plate and his Blade against a Blade only. Salinor sure thought Adolin was not threat. The core of my argumentation relies over these facts. Adolin has been out of the dueling circuit for pretty much all of his dueling career. He has not win any significant fights in years and it could be the only significant fight he has ever won was the one where he got his Blade. He is the laughing stock amongst his peers. Sadeas either did not take Adolin seriously until he actually noticed him cleverly maneuvering Erraniv around and Sadeas has seen Adolin fight on the battle ground. Relis and his crew planned to kill someone by misleading him, which is quite the same as Sadeas. The only difference is the number of people involved. I tend to put them in the same basket. I think the overall concept of honor while fighting a duel may be misleading. Honor means respecting one's opponent. I never got that Adolin was not respecting Elit during his duel. He sought to fight a perfect fight which does not mean dishonoring Elit. Elit kind of dishonored himself by being a sore loser and by trying to injure his opponent upon realizing he did not have the upper hand.
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  36. I think we just moved from arguing about something specific to generally discussing the 4 vs 1 duel, which may seem like going in circles. You're right, Adolin didn't act with honor, but Alethi aren't fond of honor anyway, except for Dalinar and Kaladin. But I'm pretty sure the four did break the rules as ignoring someone yielding and slamming someone's hand down when trying to forfeit are likely illegal. They didn't kill Renarin as that would have probably worked against them for two reasons: 1. They basically held Ren as hostage to make sure Adolin complied - you can't carelessly kill the reason your target obeys. 2. Killing/maiming a Shardplateless opponent, who's well-known to be sick and barely trained, in a disadvantaged duel would have probably be frowned upon. Killing Renarin risked making him or the Kholins martyrs, which would have been against the goal to humiliate and punish Adolin. But this is just my reading of why they sparing Renarin, anyone can read it as them being better than I give them credit for and only Brandon knows which is true.
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