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  1. Hi everyone! Eric with 17th Shard here, and I'm here to talk to you about Rhythm of War, by Brandon Sanderson, the fourth novel in The Stormlight Archive. This review is completely spoiler free! There will be no spoilers for the preview chapters, or other cosmere stuff, so if you haven't read anything about Rhythm of War, this won't have any information other than some non-spoilery info Brandon has discussed about the structure of the book. Of course, all of us at 17th Shard are mega-fans, so you can take us with a grain of salt that, yeah, we really like Brandon books and his writing style. But if we didn't like a thing, we'd tell you, and that'd hold some weight. So, in this review, these are my opinions here, but you'll hear from all our other staff members about the book soon enough, too! If you'd prefer to watch a video instead, check out our video review! So let's talk about Rhythm of War! This book is the longest of the Stormlight books, even longer than Oathbringer! Overall, this works really well. I didn't think Oathbringer had fluff, but this book is even leaner. It's just that the world of Roshar is so big, and the number of characters is so big, that there's a lot to do in this. Plus, stuff happens! A lot of stuff happens in this book, and it will really surprise you in many ways. Rhythm of War has some absolutely killer moments. There will be joy. There will be a lot of pain and suffering, too. I think a lot of people will tear up on more than a few occasions. Character Character is a massive focus in Rhythm of War, moreso than Words of Radiance and Oathbringer. This book is a character study for several of our characters, and the character moments are the best moments in the entire novel. Mental health and struggling with mental health takes center stage in the book, and it personally affected me more than it has in the series. As someone who struggles with depression, this book spoke to me fantastically. Now, this might be controversial in the book, because the mental health stuff could be hard to read for some. It gets deep, and it gets dark, darker than Brandon has taken characters before. That might turn you off of the book. And there may be readers who don't find characters dealing with their mental health to be important, and yeah, this book might not be for you. I think it was done really well, I think it really spoke to me, and I think mental health is always a good thing to thoroughly explore in books to continue to destigmatize it. There are tons of characters in The Stormlight Archive, and as always, Brandon has to juggle a lot of different characters and plotlines. I've always felt Brandon deals with this well, with some characters getting less in some books but more in the next, and that continues in Rhythm of War. It focuses on the right characters for the book, but we still see from all of our main gang of protagonists, and they are all important. There is a main character who gets less viewpoints than others, but there is another character who really comes into their own here, which was lovely. There are new characters, too. One new character is one I can't wait to talk to you about, because they really steal the show. We also see more viewpoints of characters we didn't see as much as we should have before, and it's lovely to see more from these more minor characters be fleshed out. Plot I can't really tell you too much about the plot, honestly. But this book doesn't go where you'd expect. After Oathbringer I didn't really know where the story would go, but... I didn't quite expect this, I don't think you'll expect it either! It is really cool and awesome, as you'd expect from Brandon. There are three groups of characters and after Part One they do split up. Some of these interweave a bit, others don't. It's more that Way of Kings vibe, where in that book, we had Shallan in Parts One and Three and Dalinar/Adolin in Parts Two and Four. Rhythm of War is like that in many way with its three groups, and only one of the groups is in all five parts, with the other two alternating after Part One. But each plotline is engaging, and they all get extremely intense. This book will definitely keep you at the edge of your seat. Now, The Way of Kings is not my favorite Stormlight book. Words of Radiance and Oathbringer had plot structures I more preferred, and the endings of those books, where absolutely everything comes together, man... that just really speaks to me, and I love that so much. Rhythm of War has a great Brandon Avalanche. The highs are REALLY high, but it's not going to be like the ending of Oathbringer where everything comes together. So I liked the ending less so than Words of Radiance and Oathbringer, but I know there are people who thought this was the best Stormlight book, with the best ending. I think it may come down to how character focused you are. I'm more plot based, so I liked it a bit less, but I think this structure is done better than it was in The Way of Kings. There's a ton of awesome here and it's really cool. I quite enjoyed the plot and the ending, it's just the different plot structure Brandon went for here was not as in line to my personal preference. You may well be different! I do want to say, though, that where the book is meant to have a big impact, Rhythm of War absolutely executes incredibly. There was a moment that confirmed something I figured, but the way it was portrayed makes it easily one of the best and memorable scenes in the book. When there's suffering, you feel it, and when there's a "hell yeah" moment, it's just the best. Probably one of the weaker parts is the flashbacks. There are both Eshonai and Venli flashbacks, and it's cool, but it's nothing as impactful as Dalinar's flashbacks were. But I mean, Dalinar's were so good and so impactful for the main story, and we just can't have every flashback sequence be as awesome as those. But if I had to get a criticism, it may be these flashbacks. They are fine, but not incredible. This book has a one year time jump from the end of Oathbringer, which is different for the series thus far. All the other books have happened immediately after the previous novel. So how'd this go with this one? The time jump worked pretty well for me. I felt like we've gotten enough hints of what happened in the interim that it was fine. The time jump allowed the world and characters to progress, and sets the stage for the real action that's happening in this book, and I think made the plot better. Lore and Worldbuilding Let's talk about the lore and worldbuilding of the book. Every Stormlight book has tons of worldbuilding. Remember Oathbringer, where it widened the world so much? Rhythm of War expands things way further than I ever could have imagined. I don't think you'll expect where the book ends up, because some of the things we learn are so crazy, I don't know how you'd guess them. The door is open for so many more things by the end of this book. It's insane. We are all going to have so much to talk about once you're all done with this. I didn't think a Stormlight book could expand the world more than Oathbringer did, but this one sure as storms does. The connections to the greater cosmere increase in this book, even more than Oathbringer had. This might be controversial. Brandon has said in some comments on the Part One chapters (which you can read for free) that Brandon is phasing things more to "things are intersecting more in the cosmere" now, which is a bit different than how he's done things before. It's hard for me to comment on this effectively, because I am so deep into the cosmere books, but I don't think references to other cosmere books ruin your enjoyment of Stormlight if you are a Stormlight-only reader. It's more, "hey, there are some things that are mysteries in world to our characters, but you can learn more by reading some other books if you want." It is less subtle here, so I do think pretty soon Stormlight-only readers may want to start reading the other books. That said, if you're already deep in the cosmere, all of this is JUICY! It is so, so good. Final Thoughts Overall, I really enjoyed this book. There are some of the best moments in the series here. Its very character based, but also expands on the lore a lot. It's just for me, I like the ending of Oathbringer so much, and though the Sanderlanche is awesome as you'd expect, I just like the Oathbringer and Words of Radiance style of book more. So for me, Rhythm of War is not my favorite Stormlight book, but I think it's really excellent! I imagine this will be a lot of people's favorite, of the four books. Maybe the worst part of the book is just the wait till book five. If you didn't know, The Stormlight Archive is ten books but split into two five book arcs, and Brandon has always said book five will have a big climax for our cast of the first half. After Rhythm of War, yeah, I really need book five now, please! But of course, I want book five to be as good as can be, and I can only imagine what it's like going through this massive 470k book for several drafts. I understand Brandon needs a bit of a break from Stormlight, and I do want Skyward sequel and that final Wax and Wayne book. So I'll wait! This book has tons to tide people over to through the wait for book five. And for the cosmere fandom, there's going to be plenty to talk about. We'll definitely have spoilery reactions on our podcast, Shardcast, and I can't wait to talk to you about it all!
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  2. It's my Shardiversary! Hard to believe it's been one year. Wow. Granted, it's late, so I'd better be brief (let's see how brief I actually am). @Serce Forts, you are so amazing. You're an amazing friend, and I'm so glad I get to know you. Thanks for getting me on here, and thank you for all you have done for me. @Condensation and @Vapor, amazing siblings, thank you for joining me on here! FotT, my first real RP. 'tis sweet. I love the story, and I love all you guys. Thank you for teaching me how to actually RP. You are all amazing. Sanderson Elimination, a section I discovered during quarantine, is amazing. Thank you for the sense of community you have allowed me to find. I'm always surprised when I hear how many games I've played (10? How?) and I'm sorry if I'm kind of inactive. @revelryintheart, your art is amazing! Thank you for being there when I was busy, and it was great to meet you! @Shard of Thought, I can say the same for you. Thank you for being ready to take over when I needed it. I love hearing about your stories and your characters, and your art is phenomenal. I love it even more with context, and it's amazing without. @Matrim's Dice, thank you for being there as well. It was reassuring to know that the three of you were there in case anything happened. SE with you is great too, and I love your character concepts! @Nathrangking and @Scarletfox, I've loved reading your RP and have learned so much from it! @AonEne, thank you. Just thank you. I have no clue how you find time for all that you do, moderation and listening. Thank you for your constant offers to listen in PMs. Thank you for listening to my concerns and sharing them that time. Having someone to talk to really helped. @The_Truthwatcher, I've loved chatting with you. You're awesome. @Channelknight Fadran drat too many mentions it won't let me do more. I love your story and look forward to catching up *cough cough my bad*. @Emi and @Spren of Kindness, you are both so sweet and I love seeing you here. All of you are awesome, even if I missed mentioning you.
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  3. The idea that the 16 Shards can be categorized in groups of 4 (a la Mistborn metals) is not a new one, and I think Dawnshard is going to further support that theory. The mural that seems to depict The Shattering of Adonalsium and imbues Rysn with her Command is described as having 16 "mostly symmetrical pieces" grouped into fours. So let's make groups of 4! I'm sure there's going to be tons of different theories on how the Shards are organized. Even when trying to find commonalities between all the Shards, there's bound to be people who see different patterns than others. Let's start with what we know, or at least what we think we know... About the Dawnshards in general: The Dawnshards are "the four primal Commands that created all things" The Dawnshards were used to undo Adonalsium itself Both a Command and Intent are required to use "the most powerful forms of Surgebinding [Magic]" that ordinarily "transcends traditional mortal understanding." These are demands "on a level no person could ever manage alone" -- a single person would not be able to handle wielding this combined power. So the Dawnshards predate the Shattering of Adonalsium and thus cannot have been created by the Shattering. They were used to create all things -- the power of creation, potentially wielded by Adoalsium, who is a deity. The people (Dragon, Human, mortal or immortal, but otherwise just people, not deities) who Shattered Adonalsium would have been incapable of using a Command on their own, even with the proper Intent. -- Could they have been required to work in groups of four? I think perhaps four people with similar Intents likely were needed to use each Command, and then the four Commands must have been used together to kill God. Four groups of four, with each person having a specific Intent that somewhat related to the Command they were helping to wield. And what do we know about the Commands specifically: Rysn's Command seems to have a theme, which is Change. "Accept it. Know it. CHANGE." "It was then that she grasped, in the smallest way, the nature of the Command inside her. The will of a god to remake things, to demand they be better. The power to change." Rysn seems to be able to appreciate colors and tastes much more clearly after being imbued with the Command, which is similar to the effects of investiture created by Endowment (Breaths, Nalthis) "Storms. Was it her, or did this tea taste extra good? She inspected it, then glanced at the sunlight pouring through the porthole. Was it . . . brighter than usual? Why did the colors in her room look so exceptionally vivid all of a sudden?" Rysn also appreciates the musicality in Drlwan's voice -- is this another effect similar to that of a Heightening? Or is Rysn potentially hearing the Rhythms of Roshar? "Strange, how she saw the contrast of shadows much more starkly now. And . . . why did Drlwan’s voice sound more musical?" The Command agrees(?) with Rysn's decision to let Cord keep her Shardplate out of tradition. Because it's the honorable thing to do? Because it's a gift that Rysn has endowed to Cord? Tradition, doing something because it has been done before, actually seems to be somewhat in opposition to the theme of "Change," so I feel this is important to explore. "'Cord discovered it,' Rysn said. 'It’s traditional to let the one who first claims a Shard keep it.' The Command pulsed with warmth as she said that." So based on this information, I feel pretty sure that we can at least begin to categorize the Shards. Everything that follows here is just my best guess at a grouping. CHANGE -- "The will of a god to remake things, to demand they be better. The power to change." Endowment -- Must be, based on the changes Rysn is experiencing. Even though I personally feel like it's a stretch to put this here. Advancement? The addition of things, or gaining of new things, to improve or grow? Cultivation -- Growth, personal improvement, etc. Could be the source of Rysn beginning to hear the Rhythms. Definitely belongs in this category. Ruin -- Entropy, decay, mortality. Definitely belongs in this category. ? SURVIVE -- The will of a god to create enduring life, that extends itself into infinity even beyond it's own death. The power to survive. Preservation -- Stability, safety, unchanging. Definitely belongs in this category, and really the basis for why I think "SURVIVE" or "LIVE" must be a command -- because Kelsier certainly hears the Command to SURVIVE in Mistborn, and it is not coming from Leras. Autonomy -- Self-reliance, individualism, independence. The ability to survive while depending on only yourself. Definitely belongs in this category. The unknown shard "who just wants to hide and survive." -- Obviously belongs in this category even though we don't know what the true intent is. ? UNITE -- The will of a god to bind things, to conncet people with eachother and with the land and life around them. The power to unite. Honor -- Oaths, connecting people to eachother, binding them to their words and traditions. Obviously belongs in this category, and the basis for why I think "UNITE" or "CONNECT" must be a command -- because Dalinar certainly hears the Command to UNITE all throughout SA, and it is not the Stormfather, nor is it Tanavast. Dominion -- Connecting people to the land, and to eachother with political power and territory. This one may be a stretch, but it's my best guess. I think it probably belongs in this category. ? ? CARE -- The will of a god to create meaning and purpose, to demand that life exists for a reason. The power to care. Odium -- Pasion, love, hatred, emotion, motivation (though "Motivation" would be a great Shard name on its own). Definitely belongs in this category. Devotion -- Purpose, worship, crusades/quests. This one is also a stretch; honestly I have the hardest time with the Selish Shards because their Intents are confusing to me. But I believe this one belongs here. You devote yourself to a mission or a purpose in life, whatever that may be.. Ambition -- Personal goals, enthusiasm, striving to achieve. If devotion belongs here then Ambition certainly does as well. ? If Wisdom is the Shard that just wants to "hide and survive" then it belongs under the SURVIVE Command. But if Wisdom is a completely different shard, then I would want to probably put it under the CHANGE command, because knowledge changes you. Actually... now that I think about it, I think there may be two Shards here. "Wisdom" is a thing that you have whereas "Knowledge" is something that you gain with time and experience and experimentation. I wouldn't be surprised to discover that "Wisdom" is the shard that wants to survive and hide, and keep its secrets, and just study the world as it is without affecting the outcome, and that there is another shard along the lines of "Knowledge" or "Discovery" that is about change through experiences. Anyway, just had to write down my own thoughts. I'm really interested to see how other people categorize the shards. And I'm also interested in thoughts on my categorizations and would love for people to poke holes in it or improve it or change it around so it fits better. What do you guys think?
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  4. So the non-spoiler reviews for Rythm of War have started popping out and 2 that I was expecting were Daniel's Greene & Merphy's Napier. From what they say here I am a bit worried that I will have the same issues with RoW, as I had with Oathbringer. Daniel says it very well, something along the lines of "liking the meat, but not the bone". For me Oathbringer had a lot of specific moments that were my favourites in the series, but as a whole didn't deliver on all the fronts I was hoping for. The reviews are mostly non spoilery, but just to be extra cautious I addes in "spoiler" what I thought might be considered one. . What makes you even more excited after listening to their reviews? Also, I don't know the indepth policies of the forum, so if putting the links to their reviews in this ,it is considered promotion of some sort, I am sorry. Hope that it's ok though Daniel Greene - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxAQ3ufxgJM&ab_channel=DanielGreene Merphy Napier - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t47XN5Lf0hY&t=499s&ab_channel=DanielGreeneDanielGreene
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  6. Ok so people are getting the book weeks before the release I'm now considering the possibility of becoming an Youtuber dedicated to books. I will work hard for the next 3 years to become sufessful and get many subscribers. After that I will finally get a copy of SA5 for myself 20 days before anyone else and shut down my channel right after that
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  7. I noticed this in the annotations for Dawnshard: Emphasis on the fact that he can’t eat meat. What!? Since when!? Does his curse to not be able to physically harm people also extend to animals, and therefore he cannot eat them? the most alarming and depressing part of this is this fact we have known for a while, quote: I know someone brought this up on the Reddit q and a already, but I needed to get this off my chest
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  8. Here's my spoiler-free review: There's also a written version:
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  9. It’s not being a vegetarian that’s the issue, there’s nothing wrong with being a vegetarian, it’s that he isn’t really doing it by choice. He’s a vegetarian because he’s incapable of doing otherwise; even though he loves the taste of bacon, he’s incapable of actually eating it. It’s more similar to someone who loves the taste of peanut butter being allergic to peanuts. Being incapable of eating your favorite food would really suck.
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  10. I suspect, after reading this, that the Third Ideal is less about hatred, per se, and more about not letting yourself get in the way of protecting others--or perhaps, rather, to not let your personal desires stop you from protecting others. As such, selflessness is the key principle of the Third Ideal. I think. "I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right." - Kaladin had to let go of his hatred of others and not allow it to determine his willingness to protect others, even those who arguably didn't deserve his protection, like Elhokar. "I will protect even those I hate, even if the one I hate most is myself." - Teft had to let go of his self-hatred, which was spiraling him downwards into self-pity, self-rejection, and self-torment. He had to be able to look outwards and focus on protecting those who need protection, notwithstanding his own failings. "I will protect those who hurt me." - Huio had to look past the way in which his cousin aggravates him. We get a small sense of how annoyed he gets by Lopen in this story. Can you imagine having to live with Lopen? For your whole life? There's probably a lot of hurt there that Lopen didn't necessarily mean, but it sounds like it was enough to be an obstacle for Huio to overcome to reject his emotional wounds in order to protect. "I will protect others from myself." - Again, it's the self that's getting in the way. Lopen wants to protect but his own personality, the one he's chosen, is getting between him and that ideal. In each of these, the primary element is not hatred, or some interpretation of hatred, but an interpretation of the character's focus on the self, and the need to set aside that self-centeredness in order to fulfill the Ideal. That Kaladin and Teft's interpretations of it deal with hatred is not endemic to the Third Ideal itself, but are instead manifestations of their strongly hateful character arcs at that point in time. The point is to give up the self.
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  11. I'm going under the knife for shoulder surgery November 16th at 1pm! I don't know when RoW will arrive from Wellers, but here's hoping I'm lucid enough to start reading RoW immediately and until I have to be back at work Thursday!
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  13. Beautiful volumes. Kudos Team Dragonsteel!
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  14. I’m very sorry if this is the wrong place, but, Dawnshard memes! (I think it’s self explanatory) Here are a few that I have made: (Dawnshard spoilers)
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  15. I wonder if Rysn now had some passive benefits of 4 shard investiture? She notices Endiwnment, but I wonder what else might be in there (or maybe all 4 shards in that team can grant that somehow). I am thinking the team is based in the “Accept it Know it CHANGE”, so Endowment - change through gift Cultivation - change through grown Ambition - change through will Maybe Ruin? - Change through time? Dalinar had also seen words that glow and give off light. Is Unite one of the Dawnshards (maybe a splintered one Odium thought he destroyed or Unmade?) Honour Dominion Devotion Preservation?
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  16. OK so tidbits I picked up so far. Sleepless The Sleepless are few in number and seem to age and reproduce slowly. Their reproduction method apparently happens when one swarm splits off another grouping. This particular group of sleepless numbers only 24. It is unclear how many more there are on Roshar but no more are known. They have spied on and are worried about our radiants. Also apparenty the one Lift met is something of a maverick. We don't really know why but apparently they think Dalinar making the right choices is more dangerous then playing into the enemy's plans(I no idea why). Hoid warned the horneaters two generations ago that they could not fight the sleepless. Fabrails Huio is a genius and he invented the aluminum method that the Azish take credit for. It seems that it works by making it so that only some motions matter circular motion = back and forth as only lateral movement matters. I am really interested for Rysn to star Prof Xing around on a floating chair. Dawnshard Aimia's undersea caverns contain a DAWNSHARD that the sleepless are guarding. There are apparently four and they were used to shatter adonalsium. Sharders speculate that each made four of the four shads. Rysn has the one that makes things improve, change, grow and possibly learn(Endowment, Ruin, Cultivation, Wisdom?). According to Cord it came through Cultivation's perpendicularity. Hoid was effected by (another?) Dawnshard that turned him vegan under principles similar to savantism. Horneaters The Horneaters are awesome. More importantly the Horneaters have a sacred duty to control access to the perpendicularity which explains a little about RoW Perhaps the Horneaters were given sanctuary in exchange for this duty? I also wonder how old they are as a people. Did a group of singers do this ahead of time? Maybe they interbred with the humans specifically so that they could stick around? They apparently have a whole group of people who work in diplomacy/worship of the spren. Rock's enhanced strength comes from Mandras or luckspren. We still don't know what kind of spren they are but they apparently guard wealth so maybe prosperityspren? The Lopen Lopen and Huio leveled up! We got Lopen's third ideal. An interesting twist about self knowledge. Larkin Ancient Guardians, Larkin or Lanceryn as they originally were called were tasked perhaps even created to guard the dawnshard. They bond a particular kind of luckspen only found on Aimia. Eight soulcasters were found on Aimia. They were offerings to the larkin. It is unclear why they would want any. The sleepless managed to interbreed with the Larkin and took over their task of gaurding. Apparently Chiri-Chiri will in fact grow big enough to ride(can't wait). They are also a sapient species. I wonder what other abilities they might have? The Reshi The Reshi King Rysn met seems to have transitioned as of becoming a Dustbringer! The Reshi greatshells can communicate intelligent and important information? They also come to agreements about how to act? They have a "government" and uphold ideologies and causes? What else have we learned?
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  17. So this is a tidbit that I haven't seen discussed yet. We've known they exist on other planets, but this is confirmation that they're not Roshar natives: At the same time, we learned something new about their biology; the really big centipede-like hordlings that Lopen fights have violet blood. In addition, hordlings are often distinguishable from cremlings by an external violet coloring. The first time we ever saw one was that purple "cremling" that Kaladin noticed while he was enslaved. Here's the quotes: Who else has violet carapace? Chiri-chiri: Now, I can't prove definitely that violet carapace corresponds with violet blood, but I have another reason to believe that larkin blood is violet: chasmfiend blood is also violet. Given the descriptions of Chiri-chiri "trumping" I don't think it's a stretch to say that they might be related. Why am I hung up over the violet blood? Because of what it might imply about which life is native to Roshar. The Listeners have orange blood, and they are the only known native Rosharans. Are all the creatures with violet blood invasive? Are they from the same planet as the Sleepless? However, I have reasons to believe that creatures with violet blood are native. First of all comes anatomy. Creatures from off-world would not have gemhearts with which they can bond spren. The very fact that they're large crustaceans who require Roshar's higher oxygen level, lighter gravity, and spren bonds to survive seems to indicate that they are native to the planet. In addition, violet blood is found in axehounds, who don't really have any ties to the Larkin or Sleepless as far as I can tell: The largest reason I think these creatures are native, however, is coevolution. Spren bonds on Roshar are a form of mutualistic symbiosis—when organisms of different species interact closely for mutual benefit. The most well-known example of this in our world is pollinating insects. Many of these insects are fairly indiscriminate. European honeybees happily pollinate flowers found in North America, even though those species did not evolve together. The same seems to be true for most of the Mandra on Roshar, who bond with all sorts of creatures from skyeels to chasmfiends to santhids. Some of these creatures did not necessarily need to evolve alongside the Mandra in order to interact with them now. Theoretically, you could drop a brand-new massive creature into Roshar, and if it had a gemheart, these Mandra might be able to bond it. However, symbiosis can be much, much more specific. There's a lot of bacteria that are specific to the digestive tracts of different animals species, but there's also examples of specific pollinators. Perhaps the coolest is the Darwin's moth: Look at that tongue! This moth is the result of coevolution, and it can only pollinate a specific flower in the Galapagos. Likewise, the flower can only be pollinated by this moth. Such a specific interaction is a clear indicator that these two species evolved together. In fact, Darwin first predicted the existence of this moth when he examined the flower which it pollinates. The first specimen of the moth wasn't found until years after his death. Now let's look at the Larkin. They can't just bond with any Mandras, but with a subspecies found only in Akinah. Chiri-chiri hasn't reached a size yet where the greater potency of the Akinah Mandra should be necessary for her survival. Normal Mandra can hold up chasmfiends, for goodness sake. Instead, by some biological or magical mechanism, I think Chiri-chiri is incapable of bonding other Mandra. Part of the definition of coevolution is that it must be reciprocal. Both species must be evolving in response to the other. Why would Mandras exist on Roshar which meet the exact needs of the Larkin/Laceryn? How could the Larkin/Laceryn ever exist before these Mandra did, or vice versa? The answer is that they didn't. This was, undoubtedly, coevolution taking place. It is a clear sign that these species are native to Roshar. Either they've lived on Roshar for thousands of generations, or they were created by Adonalsium in this state (in which case they would also be native). Therefore, I think that the purple-ness of the hordelings is from interbreeding with native Rosharan life. Nikli mentions that their hordelings can breed with the Larkin. And we also know that Adonalsium made species like Humans and Parshendi biologically compatible. Interbreeding like this would likely be the quickest way for the Sleepless to have blended in to Roshar when they first arrived. The weird purple hordelings probably look different from cremlings because they're part-Larkin. I don't have much of a theory here, I guess. TL;DR: I got hung up over the color of some blood and carapace, but in the end I'm concluding that the Sleepless are the only invasive species and they've blended in by breeding hordelings with native Rosharan life. EDIT: Well, somehow I wrote this whole thing without realizing there was an extremely pertinent WoB: I think this generally supports my interpretation, although it doesn't specifically address the origins of the Larkin. Also this WoB, which is mostly tangential to my theory but is still cool:
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  18. Perhaps so, but I'm leaning more towards the immortality and inability to cause harm probably had something to do with the type of Dawnshard Hoid had. I think Rysn has a different one, and that any effects will be different. Immortality and inability to cause harm to living things reminds me a lot of Preservation, and what Rysn has seems to be the opposite of that. So instead of immortality, short life? Either way, she didn't know what she was signing up for.
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  19. Sounds to me like Rysn just got "soul-casted." At least, that's how the target of a soulcast must feel right? You have this entity pushing itself into your perception, asking you to change. Convincing you that you've already done it, that you're capable of doing it. Do it again. One more time. The cosmere functions on Investiture, Command, Intent, and Connection. The Dawnshard just used three of those on Rysn. And if it can 'bond any creature mortal or voidish' maybe it doesn't have a problem with connecting either. "Change" is just another surge, just another manifestation of investiture—a force of magic that gained classification from people's perspective. No better than Gravitation or Division. Big-A was shattered and its power split up among the first wielders of the Shards right? God's power of Preservation, Ruin, etc. Investiture imprints and interacts with sapience, so the Shards of Hatred, Honor, Ambition probably got their intent from Ado right? After all Investiture will form Sapience if given the chance as well. The power sits in the Spiritual and is classified and keyed by cognitive thought: even the big capital-S Shards are bound by the intent keyed to their investiture. And in some cases we see unbound investiture pursue its intent and grow sapience. But sapience also shapes investiture—intent is hard-coded into the cosmere and it came from some intellect with these concepts. But we've seen Ado's investiture! It's the Shards. There's sixteen of them, they can be splintered or merged further, but we're familiar. Almost intimately with some of them. Why call these Dawnshards? Why are they different? Seems silly that only just now Brando would introduce us to some "Super Shards" that are somewhere between a Shard and Adonalsium itself? What happened to Adonalsium's mind? After all, what is a Command except a manifestation of someone's will.
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  20. I have a Missionary story real quick: So my family had guy over for dinner (pre-COVID) And this guy had a brother. This brother was... an...interesting person. He went on a mission & while he was on it he bought knives from a knife-store that was closing down. Short time later, this guy was carrying around a knife with him into a grocery store, (as I said he was an interesting guy.) His companion had to go to the bathroom, so while his companion was in the bathroom, this guy starts throwing the knife up, spinning it, and catching it. It hits the ceiling fan and IMPALES his thigh. (that's not the craziest part yet.) Short while later their mission president in a zone meeting starts chewing them out and got this guy really frustrated. So frustrated that on the way home he has his companion stop the car at every snowman so that this guy could tackle it. He keeps doing this until they're almost at the apartment and he tackles yet another snowman, this lady comes out of the house and asks him what he was doing. He replied that he was sorry and he was having a really hard day. She invites him and his companion inside for hot chocolate and about a month later she's converted and baptized by the guy and his companion. This remains my favorite conversion story ever.
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  21. is that a Sleepless could probably form a creature the size of a Chasmfiend. We also need to consider the size of the monsters at the end. It's difficult to get an exact size estimate, but we do get descriptors. First, they are able to fit Huio in their mouth while he stands. Two, their legs are described as spindly compared to the body, but the legs are also the thickness of tree trunks. I get the impression that these creatures are much larger than Santhids. However, it's interesting that there are a total of seven of these monsters; one originally, then six more followed. We also know that there are 20 Sleepless following the First, making there a total of 21 Sleepless actively guarding Akinah. We don't know for sure that all of them were present on Akinah, but considering how important they consider its defense and the presence of a large group of people containing multiple Windrunners, it's not unreasonable to assume they went all out and all the Sleepless were present on Akinah at the end of Dawnshard. This could imply that each monster was comprised of three distinct Sleepless hordes, which would mean hordelings from different Sleepless are capable of working in conjoint to form larger masses. It's definitely a stretch to say we know absolutely that the monsters were comprise of multiple Sleepless, but the numbers divide by each other, and I can't think of any reasoning for why Sleepless would not be able to combine hordes to create larger creatures. ... I think each of those monsters WAS a Hordeling... a single Hordeling. If they were composed of a bunch of small Hordelings, Huio wouldn't have been able to kill one with a Shardspear. It would only kill the Hordelings it hit. And I think Nikli would have a different form of combat if he had a giant mass of Hordelings instead of a set of big ones. ... which implies that what we saw in the battle was just Nikli. The youngest Sleepless.
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  22. 3 likes
  23. I know the ebook release was up in the air a bit with the news being it would be out a few days later than the Kickstarter, but it looks like it will be available on Tuesday and you can preorder it now. Here is a link to one major ebook vendor. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08MXXWYT7/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=dawnshard+sanderson&qid=1604765357&sprefix=dawnsh&sr=8-7
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  24. Not certain I agree. When he was conversing with the other Sleepless, he said he had one more idea to deter the expedition, but he needed help.
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  25. Another sketch of Szeth-son-son-Vallano.
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  26. 3 likes
  27. Kind of ironic that a species that is symbiotic with luckspren would be hunted nearly to extinction...
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  28. We're recording Sunday, then it'll be a mad dash for me to edit the podcast! I'll get them out ASAP! It's very exciting!
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  29. Thank you! Hear that everyone? I got big guns! Git gud noobs
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  30. "The element" has been confirmed to be lerasium, so not a Dawnshard: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/245/#e5483 There were some relevant WoBs given out yesterday: So Hoid was a Dawnshard, but he's not anymore. I believe he gave up his Dawnshard before the Shattering; that was his opportunity to particpate, and he declined it, and somebody else got his Dawnshard (either freely given or forcibly taken; might that be part of Hoid's grudge against Rayse or Bavadin?) and used it in the Shattering. But he had held it long enough that its effects on his spirit still lingered.
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  31. So basically it's a Cosmere version of this?
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  32. I think it may have been something like “I will protect even those who hurt me most.” Because he truly doesn’t hate his cousin, but the Lopen has hurt him deeply. So hate doesn’t really make sense, but hurt does.
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  33. My guess is that has to do with being able to look at them from Shadesmar and see their Cognitive aspect as different.
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  34. Well, looks like I’m not getting any sleep tonight. After a mostly forgettable, low-stakes mild adventure/mystery story, the lore got turned up to 1000%. This seems like a good thread to dump my thoughts in. The mural. It’s obviously referencing the Shattering, what with the sixteen pieces; I think it’s also referencing the four Dawnshards here, too. But these existed before the Shattering of Adonalsium (or else they couldn’t be used to Shatter), so I’m guessing the Commands guided the sixteen Intents, four apiece. This Command feels an awful lot like Cultivation and Endowment, making things change and make things better. (And even Ruin, to a degree.) And Adonalsium had some emotions ascribed to him, as well: “Resignation? Confidence? Understanding?” And lastly, I’m not sure that the gold color is entirely for decoration. We’re learning from fabrial science that metals interact with Investiture in quite a few ways we didn’t anticipate; I wonder if the mural wouldn’t have contained the Dawnshard if it had a different metal. (The “red foil” outlines are somewhat suspicious, as well, for the places we’ve seen red Investiture.) Exactly what Dawnshards are and how they work is a bit of a mystery. We know from Brandon’s annotation that Hoid was a Dawnshard; I assume this is in reference to the “first gem” and how it became worthless for his wearing it. His Dawnshard was contained in a topaz, and then Hoid absorbed it. There are an awful lot of similarities to Breath and Awakening. It’s called a “Command,” Rysn has improved perception of color and pitch at the end of the novella. But while she absorbs it, we see sensations of light and warmth… almost like the mystery light Dalinar has seen a few times. The pieces are there, but I'm not quite sure how to put them together. There are some outstanding mysteries about the larkin and the mandras. It’s one thing if they were leading Chiri-Chiri to start a bond… but why did they guide Cord and Rysn? And then the big old skulls that Rysn thought moved to look at her; I’m thinking that there’s something actually moving in there. Rysn thinks that the Dawnshard has no agency of its own (borne out by the heads moved after Rysn took up the Dawnshard), so it must be whatever was guiding the mandras, whatever let out the big roar right before Chiri-Chiri returned. Mama Larkin, or whoever it is. The Dawnshard refers to Chiri-Chiri as a “Guardian of Ancient Sins.” That implies, to me, that the larkin are, an intelligent race who were tasked with this mission as soon as the Dawnshards needed guarding. The Sleepless say they guard it because they have seen the “end of worlds,” (like what was mentioned in the Oathbringer interlude), so are the “Ancient Sins” the Shattering? Or perhaps the destruction of Ashyn and other planets like it (including, potentially, the Sleepless home world)? So when were the Dawnshards put under guard? After the Shattering? After the destruction of Ashyn? After some point during the Desolations? It must have been prior to the Recreance, but that's a very long amount of time. We’ve only found one Dawnshard; where are the other three? In Way of Kings, Honor references “Dawnshards,” plural, so presumably more of them were on Roshar, if not all of them. What is Honor about to suggest that can’t be done without Dawnshards? Splintering a Shard, I’d guess; he was suggesting they kill Odium. Which, in turn, makes me wonder if Odium has a Dawnshard, and has been using it to Splinter. But the Dawnshards were also used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls (by performing a great feat of magic, as suggested by the novella), so how did they get to Ashyn? Or perhaps the Dawnshards a cosmere-wide “plot point,” and Honor was suggesting that the Radiants track one down, himself oblivious to the fact that one was right under his nose on his very own planet? Who are the enemies who could make full use of a Dawnshard? Are they Shards? Are they powerful magic users? I assume you only need to be a magic user, which is why they won’t let Rysn bond a spren. That's what happened on Ashyn; somebody with a Dawnshard went too far and caused some problems. It also makes me wonder about the “one of them will destroy us” line from the Way of Kings back cover, and maybe the enemies they’re worried about are the Radiants themselves. Neither person in on the secret (Rysn, Cord) are Radiants, after all. If Dalinar looks for a Dawnshard to fight Odium, things could go wrong and destroy Roshar. Lastly, the greatest applications of Surgebinding. If Rysn’s Dawnshard is associated with growth, what we could call Cultivation’s Dawnshard, I’ll go out on a limb and suggest that Ishar used Honor’s Dawnshard to create the Radiants. An extremely powerful Surgebinding to set up the Oaths and the bonds and the Surge associations and all that. He may also have used it to bind the Oathpact. I go a little further and suggest he still has it, although now he doesn’t have Surgebinding to make use of it. Hmm, one more odd line towards the end of the book. Cord knows stories of this Dawnshard coming through the perpendicularity. That implies that the Dawnshards were being moved around separately through the Cosmere. Who brought this one to Roshar? When? And for what purpose (if there is any beyond just hiding it)? Lots to think about. A pleasant surprise, to be sure; I wasn’t expecting this much of a bomb in this story.
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  35. Great catch, I didn't pick up on that. Seems to be in-book confirmation this
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  36. We got SO much information about the Sleepless in Dawnshard. One thing I want to dissect is the extent of their abilities, because we got a few more tidbits. 1. The size limitations of a Sleepless' horde - Nikli is able replicate a dead Santhid by itself. The description of Santhids in the coppermind says, "Santhidyn have a dome-shaped brown-green shell on the top of their bodies, about the size of three rowboats tied together and at least six or eight feet in height." We also know much of their mass is below the water, so they're probably somewhere between the size of orca whales (~10,000 lb) and humpbacks (~60,000 lb). That's a LOT of hordelings, more than I was expecting honestly. So the answer to this WoB is that a Sleepless could probably form a creature the size of a Chasmfiend. We also need to consider the size of the monsters at the end. It's difficult to get an exact size estimate, but we do get descriptors. First, they are able to fit Huio in their mouth while he stands. Two, their legs are described as spindly compared to the body, but the legs are also the thickness of tree trunks. I get the impression that these creatures are much larger than Santhids. However, it's interesting that there are a total of seven of these monsters; one originally, then six more followed. We also know that there are 20 Sleepless following the First, making there a total of 21 Sleepless actively guarding Akinah. We don't know for sure that all of them were present on Akinah, but considering how important they consider its defense and the presence of a large group of people containing multiple Windrunners, it's not unreasonable to assume they went all out and all the Sleepless were present on Akinah at the end of Dawnshard. This could imply that each monster was comprised of three distinct Sleepless hordes, which would mean hordelings from different Sleepless are capable of working in conjoint to form larger masses. It's definitely a stretch to say we know absolutely that the monsters were comprise of multiple Sleepless, but the numbers divide by each other, and I can't think of any reasoning for why Sleepless would not be able to combine hordes to create larger creatures. 2. Sleepless communicate with each other via vibrations - Not much to say on this one. We knew they could communicate long distances before Dawnshard, though I don't think we knew the method, so it's nice to find that out. 3. Sleepless are able to breed with species that are not a part of their own horde or any other Sleepless' - This is evident since Nikli mentions they were able to create hordelings capable of consuming Investiture by cross-breeding with Larkin. I'll be honest, I had never considered this before. I had always assumed that a Sleepless' hordelings mainly mated within a single horde, and probably with other hordes, possibly to create new Sleepless. This was based on the premise that while hordelings are flexible and can be bred to a significant degree to evolve, their reproductive methods were distinct to the species. Apparently, this is not the case. I suppose it makes sense; if you're able to evolve hordelings to the degree that they can mimic human body parts, it's reasonable to assume they can breed hordelings to be physiologically similar enough to foreign species to mate with them. This explains how hordelings can vary so much as the mating pool is virtually limitless.
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  37. Such good stuff that I finally had to level up from lurker. Looking forward to engaging with you all!
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  38. @Nathrangking I have never gotten over my awe of your poetry, pure genius @Condensation so so so nice and kind, loving, amazing, beautiful @revelryintheart an amazing artist, I have not quite gotten over how amazing you are at it @KyL You have been an amazing friend to me @Chasmgoat You are awesome. Need I say more? @Scout_Fox I really really respect the way that you regard others' opinions-- to me, you seem like a very intelligent and deep thinker, however you still are very personal and kind and patient with those of us who are... of lesser intelligence @Channelknight Fadran All hail the Hegemony of the World! Fadran, you are really cool, I really respect the way that you treat everyone with kindness, I also sense an authenticity to the things you do, that I aspire to be like. @HoidWasTaken You give good inspiration for RPs xD, but you're also a really good friend in general, someone I feel like I can be myself around @Ixthos You give really good advice (sorry this got really long [it wasn't planned], I just did the ones off the top of my head)
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  39. I suspect it's because to use the Command to the fullest extent, you need to give it Investiture. Without being a Radiant, Rysn has no way of getting Investiture to do much with the command, so she can just keep it safe. If she were to become a Radiant, she would have the power to actually use the thing she holds. And that's exactly what the Sleepless are trying to avoid.
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  40. I think that you are on the right track here, but I think the jealousy is not about Huio being quiet and thoughtful while the Lopen is loud and boisterous. The problem is that Huio is also pretty outgoing and likes to blurt out his cool ideas, but he is terrible with Alethi, so he can't really do so. Bridge 4 spends a lot of time with the scholars, so Huio is a nerd, surrounded by nerds, genuinely curious and bursting with insights about what is around him, and he is unable to share any of it and forced to stay with the soldiers because the only guy who can understand him well is kind of crazy, doesn't care about the same things, and can't be trusted as a translator. Huio isn't really a quiet guy, but the fact that he seems like one is the real tragedy.
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  41. Emphasis added. It seems that it takes the combination of a Command and an Intent to wield the power of Creation (and likewise the power of Destruction, judging by what happened to Adonalsim). But this combined power is too much for a single person to handle alone. Adonalsim likely was able to wield this power on its own because it is a deity, a force, a God that "transcends traditional mortal understanding." The people who Shattered Adonalsium were not deities. They were just people. Dragons, humans, mortal or "immortal" (though they all can die), they were just people. And therefore they must have had to work in groups. My theory is that it must have required at least four people, all with similar Intents, to wield a single Command. And thus, four groups of four, 16 Intents, 16 vessels, 16 Shards.
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  42. Hello beings of the 17th shard! I am making this post because I think it is nice to know what other people think about you. This is a thread dedicated to giving honest thoughts on what other sharder’s vibes are. I’ll start it off. @Honorless, you were kind of like the big guns of the shard to me when i first joined. A valuable and knowledgeable wizard that can share some of their power or knowledge if you ask them for it right. @Scout_Fox, you seemed like the almighty friendly human of the shard. Someone nice and approachable. @Aspiring Writer, you are like a character off of a typical quest-esque fantasy book. You started with humble beginnings, but quickly made your skill and talent known to the world. @Channelknight Fadran, you are like a merging of honorless and scout fox. You are a friendly human that has plenty of experience within the shard, and is a human worth knowing. this is hopefully a start to some knowing on how other people perceive you on the shard! I hope this will take off because it is useful to know how other people think of you.
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  43. Well ... in terms of the topics title ... what I have learned is, that even after 15 years in the cosmere I can still be absolutely awestruck with its stories. ... Back to the less emotional interaction with the topic ...
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  44. Yeah, those visions with the warm light he gets that people (myself included) have been speculating or assuming was related to his "pruning" by Cultivation, may be some aspect of this. That would be something, eh? The same man - Dalinar Kholin - not only being an Alethi highprince by birth and a Full Shardbearer in his youth, but eventually becoming a key Investiture Pawn for Honor (Stormfather/Bondsmith), Odium (first choice of Champion), Cultivation (cursed/booned to thwart Odium), and also possibly endowed or involved with a Dawnshard? Ta'veren, I tell you!
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  45. I don't think anyone's brought up that we know now that Spren have subspecies/geographic variations. I found it absolutely fascinating that Larkins need a bond with an Amian Mandra/Luckspren specifically.
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  46. I just want to thank everyone for helping me with this. Together we will penetrate the deepest mysteries of Dawnshard and emerge victorious with even more questions!
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  47. We also learned that Jasnah (and I think it implied all Elsecallers?) can see through illusions. Lopen mentions it when trying to figure out if a Lightweaver is on board.
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  48. Thanks everyone! This is very nice! You can ping me for this
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