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  1. 56 points
    I have recently been doing some re-reading of the Stormlight Archive, and some new clues stood out to me about the nature of the third Bondsmith spren. So, naturally, I wrote a whole essay about it. Proceed at your own risk! I don't think I've seen this theory discussed before, but my apologies if it has been. (Also, it's late, so I don't promise coherency.) My theory is that The Sibling is a spren that is somehow related to or representative of the moons of Roshar, particularly Nomon. Further, I think the destruction of New Natanan and the Shattered Plains may have been what harmed The Sibling and caused it to “slumber.” Still reading? Ok, here’s why I think these things: The main basis for this theory comes from the scene in which Shallan, Adolin, and Bridge Four confront the Midnight Mother. During that confrontation, Shallan notes the artwork: This seems to be a depiction of all the spren that are capable of forming bonds with Radiants. That means that the first three spren Shallan describe are actually depictions of the Bondsmith spren. So we have a cloud of energy; that seems to obviously be the Stormfather. We have a woman in the shape of the tree; this could be the Nightwatcher. That leaves us with a man hovering before a blue disc. This description is uncannily similar to the end paper art we have of Ishar. (Here) You’ll note that the discs in the background definitely look like the three moons of Roshar, with the smaller Salas and Mishim on either side of Nomon. So, why is there a picture of Ishar and the moons next to depictions of the Radiant spren? My thought is that the moons must somehow be related to The Sibling. (Of course, the other argument is that these are not depictions of the Bondsmith spren, but actually of Honor and Cultivation. But does that make Ishar some secret shard? Did people view him as on a level equal to Honor and Cultivation? He does seem pretty insistent that he is a god right now. But still, I’m going to stick with the Bondsmith spren depiction idea for now.) Additional support for the idea that the moons are related to the third Bondsmith spren: I find it interesting that the Stormfather always refers to this sibling in the plural. This could be purely to obscure the gender. Or it could be because the spren represents multiple things, rather like a collective noun. In this case, we have a spren that represents the moon, and Roshar just so happens to have three of them. And further, it’s understandable why the Stormfather refers to this spren as his sibling, but why does everybody else seem to call it The Sibling? Sibling to what? In the epigraphs, even a former Radiant, who should have more knowledge about who/what the third spren is, refers to it as the Sibling, as if that’s the only name it goes by. If it’s just because it’s the sibling Bondsmith spren, then why do Radiants refer to the Stormfather by his unique name, but not the Sibling? I find it interesting that the Shin refer to the moons as the three sisters. And Wit, in his story of Nomon, refers to the relationships among the moons as siblings. Speaking of that story that Wit told (and Sigzil attempted to tell, unsuccessfully) If my theory is in any way right, and if there is any truth at all in Wit’s story, then it brings some interesting implications about the relationship between Nomon’s spren and the Natanatan people, maybe even giving a clue as to what happened to the Sibling. The story tells about how Mishim traded places with Tsa, a mortal, and Tsa conceived a child with Nomon. We know that the story alludes to the fact that Natanatans had Aimian blood in them. But I think it may also be a hint about the Sibling (assuming I’m right about the connection with Nomon). Interestingly, this story is the only other mention of siblings, besides the Sibling in Oathbringer. Also, purely coincidentally I’m sure, I find it interesting that the epigraphs about the Sibling begin in the chapter following Wit’s story. The story clearly establishes a connection between the people of Natanatan and Nomon. This could also imply that there’s a connection between the people of Natanatan and the Sibling. Perhaps the Sibling even originated or lived in Natanatan. Before I go any further, let’s go back to those epigraphs for a second. In them, the Elsecaller who is recording the memory seems to believe that the Sibling is withdrawing from the Radiants, not because it intended to or because the Radiants are no longer worthy, but because the cognitive reflection has changed. In other words, people are thinking about the Sibling differently, and so the Sibling has itself changed. We know that the kingdom of Natanatan was destroyed, and the Shattered Plains (once Stormseat, the capital of Natanatan) was, well, shattered. Perhaps it was this shattering and the loss of Natanatan that caused the harm to the Sibling, which caused it to withdraw. Perhaps because the people were no longer there, they were no longer thinking of the Sibling, causing it to “slumber.” Also, Wit ends his story with, Perhaps this is a reflection, again, of what happened to the Sibling. It learned of loss, somehow. The loss of Natanatan? Other Interesting Tidbits: In Way of Kings, Dalinar refers to Natanatan as the Granite Kingdom. I don’t really know if this is relevant, but stone is important on Roshar. Additionally, they were a people apparently known for building towers. Again, I think this strengthens the idea that the people of Natanatan were perhaps involved in the creation of the tower in Urithiru and also had some connection to the Sibling, which we suspect powers Urithiru. And, I find it curious that Oathbringer mentions that New Natanan was working with Dalinar, but we hear literally nothing about them: This seems fishy to me. I think those New Natanans are going to become important. And lastly, we have this little bit from an interlude, which has some interesting mythology surround the people of Natanatan. Well, the night is darkest is just before the rising of Nomon. Also, an Everstorm really helps to make things dark. Perhaps we need the people of New Natanatan to come back, to restore the Sibling and thus restore the tower. And this lengthy essay doesn’t even begin to get into possible connections with Aimia. Or what on earth Roshar Ishar is doing in that depiction of the moons in Urithiru. And, is there any significance to the son Tsa had, the son born to be a god?
  2. 43 points
    Thank you for your contribution, Mr. Charles Dickens, now please return thee to the Nineteeth Century
  3. 30 points
    Hi everyone! Eric with 17th Shard here, and I'm here to talk to you about Rhythm of War, by Brandon Sanderson, the fourth novel in The Stormlight Archive. This review is completely spoiler free! There will be no spoilers for the preview chapters, or other cosmere stuff, so if you haven't read anything about Rhythm of War, this won't have any information other than some non-spoilery info Brandon has discussed about the structure of the book. Of course, all of us at 17th Shard are mega-fans, so you can take us with a grain of salt that, yeah, we really like Brandon books and his writing style. But if we didn't like a thing, we'd tell you, and that'd hold some weight. So, in this review, these are my opinions here, but you'll hear from all our other staff members about the book soon enough, too! If you'd prefer to watch a video instead, check out our video review! So let's talk about Rhythm of War! This book is the longest of the Stormlight books, even longer than Oathbringer! Overall, this works really well. I didn't think Oathbringer had fluff, but this book is even leaner. It's just that the world of Roshar is so big, and the number of characters is so big, that there's a lot to do in this. Plus, stuff happens! A lot of stuff happens in this book, and it will really surprise you in many ways. Rhythm of War has some absolutely killer moments. There will be joy. There will be a lot of pain and suffering, too. I think a lot of people will tear up on more than a few occasions. Character Character is a massive focus in Rhythm of War, moreso than Words of Radiance and Oathbringer. This book is a character study for several of our characters, and the character moments are the best moments in the entire novel. Mental health and struggling with mental health takes center stage in the book, and it personally affected me more than it has in the series. As someone who struggles with depression, this book spoke to me fantastically. Now, this might be controversial in the book, because the mental health stuff could be hard to read for some. It gets deep, and it gets dark, darker than Brandon has taken characters before. That might turn you off of the book. And there may be readers who don't find characters dealing with their mental health to be important, and yeah, this book might not be for you. I think it was done really well, I think it really spoke to me, and I think mental health is always a good thing to thoroughly explore in books to continue to destigmatize it. There are tons of characters in The Stormlight Archive, and as always, Brandon has to juggle a lot of different characters and plotlines. I've always felt Brandon deals with this well, with some characters getting less in some books but more in the next, and that continues in Rhythm of War. It focuses on the right characters for the book, but we still see from all of our main gang of protagonists, and they are all important. There is a main character who gets less viewpoints than others, but there is another character who really comes into their own here, which was lovely. There are new characters, too. One new character is one I can't wait to talk to you about, because they really steal the show. We also see more viewpoints of characters we didn't see as much as we should have before, and it's lovely to see more from these more minor characters be fleshed out. Plot I can't really tell you too much about the plot, honestly. But this book doesn't go where you'd expect. After Oathbringer I didn't really know where the story would go, but... I didn't quite expect this, I don't think you'll expect it either! It is really cool and awesome, as you'd expect from Brandon. There are three groups of characters and after Part One they do split up. Some of these interweave a bit, others don't. It's more that Way of Kings vibe, where in that book, we had Shallan in Parts One and Three and Dalinar/Adolin in Parts Two and Four. Rhythm of War is like that in many way with its three groups, and only one of the groups is in all five parts, with the other two alternating after Part One. But each plotline is engaging, and they all get extremely intense. This book will definitely keep you at the edge of your seat. Now, The Way of Kings is not my favorite Stormlight book. Words of Radiance and Oathbringer had plot structures I more preferred, and the endings of those books, where absolutely everything comes together, man... that just really speaks to me, and I love that so much. Rhythm of War has a great Brandon Avalanche. The highs are REALLY high, but it's not going to be like the ending of Oathbringer where everything comes together. So I liked the ending less so than Words of Radiance and Oathbringer, but I know there are people who thought this was the best Stormlight book, with the best ending. I think it may come down to how character focused you are. I'm more plot based, so I liked it a bit less, but I think this structure is done better than it was in The Way of Kings. There's a ton of awesome here and it's really cool. I quite enjoyed the plot and the ending, it's just the different plot structure Brandon went for here was not as in line to my personal preference. You may well be different! I do want to say, though, that where the book is meant to have a big impact, Rhythm of War absolutely executes incredibly. There was a moment that confirmed something I figured, but the way it was portrayed makes it easily one of the best and memorable scenes in the book. When there's suffering, you feel it, and when there's a "hell yeah" moment, it's just the best. Probably one of the weaker parts is the flashbacks. There are both Eshonai and Venli flashbacks, and it's cool, but it's nothing as impactful as Dalinar's flashbacks were. But I mean, Dalinar's were so good and so impactful for the main story, and we just can't have every flashback sequence be as awesome as those. But if I had to get a criticism, it may be these flashbacks. They are fine, but not incredible. This book has a one year time jump from the end of Oathbringer, which is different for the series thus far. All the other books have happened immediately after the previous novel. So how'd this go with this one? The time jump worked pretty well for me. I felt like we've gotten enough hints of what happened in the interim that it was fine. The time jump allowed the world and characters to progress, and sets the stage for the real action that's happening in this book, and I think made the plot better. Lore and Worldbuilding Let's talk about the lore and worldbuilding of the book. Every Stormlight book has tons of worldbuilding. Remember Oathbringer, where it widened the world so much? Rhythm of War expands things way further than I ever could have imagined. I don't think you'll expect where the book ends up, because some of the things we learn are so crazy, I don't know how you'd guess them. The door is open for so many more things by the end of this book. It's insane. We are all going to have so much to talk about once you're all done with this. I didn't think a Stormlight book could expand the world more than Oathbringer did, but this one sure as storms does. The connections to the greater cosmere increase in this book, even more than Oathbringer had. This might be controversial. Brandon has said in some comments on the Part One chapters (which you can read for free) that Brandon is phasing things more to "things are intersecting more in the cosmere" now, which is a bit different than how he's done things before. It's hard for me to comment on this effectively, because I am so deep into the cosmere books, but I don't think references to other cosmere books ruin your enjoyment of Stormlight if you are a Stormlight-only reader. It's more, "hey, there are some things that are mysteries in world to our characters, but you can learn more by reading some other books if you want." It is less subtle here, so I do think pretty soon Stormlight-only readers may want to start reading the other books. That said, if you're already deep in the cosmere, all of this is JUICY! It is so, so good. Final Thoughts Overall, I really enjoyed this book. There are some of the best moments in the series here. Its very character based, but also expands on the lore a lot. It's just for me, I like the ending of Oathbringer so much, and though the Sanderlanche is awesome as you'd expect, I just like the Oathbringer and Words of Radiance style of book more. So for me, Rhythm of War is not my favorite Stormlight book, but I think it's really excellent! I imagine this will be a lot of people's favorite, of the four books. Maybe the worst part of the book is just the wait till book five. If you didn't know, The Stormlight Archive is ten books but split into two five book arcs, and Brandon has always said book five will have a big climax for our cast of the first half. After Rhythm of War, yeah, I really need book five now, please! But of course, I want book five to be as good as can be, and I can only imagine what it's like going through this massive 470k book for several drafts. I understand Brandon needs a bit of a break from Stormlight, and I do want Skyward sequel and that final Wax and Wayne book. So I'll wait! This book has tons to tide people over to through the wait for book five. And for the cosmere fandom, there's going to be plenty to talk about. We'll definitely have spoilery reactions on our podcast, Shardcast, and I can't wait to talk to you about it all!
  4. 30 points
    Little known behind-the-scenes fact: Dilaf is actually an acronym for: Don't I Love Attacking Fjordell's enemies, the heretics have been allowed to blight the presence of our fair Sel for too long; for no longer shall we tolerate it! Their nation and wretched blasphemous city must burn, the charred remnants washed away in a river of blood! Devoted to my cause am I--devoted to Fjordell's dominion! With that knowledge, Elantrians, despair and die!
  5. 28 points
  6. 26 points
    I’m fully aware that this is going to come across as a pretty out-of-left-field theory but I think Dalinar may, unwittingly, be/have a Dawnshard. We’ve learnt that Dawnshards require both Intent and a Command. Reading that capital C Command brought two thoughts to my mind: “Survive” from Mistborn, and “Unite them.” Now I’m not really sure about the former but I think there’s a case to be made for the latter. Dalinar frequently hears the command to “Unite them” in his mind, which strikes me as similar to Rysn talking about the Command in her head. If we’re running with the idea that Rysn is the Dawnshard of Change, then I think Dalinar is the Dawnshard of Unity. When Dalinar says “I am Unity” I think it’s really a hint as to him being the Dawnshard of Unity. Now, for the inevitable question of where in the storming cosmere could Dalinar have picked up a Dawnshard. Right now I’m wondering if it could have come from Cultivation. Initially, I was against the idea of multiple Dawnshards hanging around on Roshar when it seems like there are just 4 of them, but looking back through the text I found that the Rosharan often talks about the Dawnshards. Plural. I will admit that the Poem of Ista say “taking the Dawnshard” as if there might only be one, but the rest of the references I found in the books seemed to imply that Rosharans had heard of there being multiple. While it’s possible they simply know of multiple Dawnshards without them having to be on Roshar, I think there’s a chance that more than one could be around. I admit that my theory is pretty rough around the edges, and if anyone has any thoughts or WoBs that support or even disprove my theory I’d love to hear them!
  7. 26 points
    It's a bit long...
  8. 25 points
    Well, looks like I’m not getting any sleep tonight. After a mostly forgettable, low-stakes mild adventure/mystery story, the lore got turned up to 1000%. This seems like a good thread to dump my thoughts in. The mural. It’s obviously referencing the Shattering, what with the sixteen pieces; I think it’s also referencing the four Dawnshards here, too. But these existed before the Shattering of Adonalsium (or else they couldn’t be used to Shatter), so I’m guessing the Commands guided the sixteen Intents, four apiece. This Command feels an awful lot like Cultivation and Endowment, making things change and make things better. (And even Ruin, to a degree.) And Adonalsium had some emotions ascribed to him, as well: “Resignation? Confidence? Understanding?” And lastly, I’m not sure that the gold color is entirely for decoration. We’re learning from fabrial science that metals interact with Investiture in quite a few ways we didn’t anticipate; I wonder if the mural wouldn’t have contained the Dawnshard if it had a different metal. (The “red foil” outlines are somewhat suspicious, as well, for the places we’ve seen red Investiture.) Exactly what Dawnshards are and how they work is a bit of a mystery. We know from Brandon’s annotation that Hoid was a Dawnshard; I assume this is in reference to the “first gem” and how it became worthless for his wearing it. His Dawnshard was contained in a topaz, and then Hoid absorbed it. There are an awful lot of similarities to Breath and Awakening. It’s called a “Command,” Rysn has improved perception of color and pitch at the end of the novella. But while she absorbs it, we see sensations of light and warmth… almost like the mystery light Dalinar has seen a few times. The pieces are there, but I'm not quite sure how to put them together. There are some outstanding mysteries about the larkin and the mandras. It’s one thing if they were leading Chiri-Chiri to start a bond… but why did they guide Cord and Rysn? And then the big old skulls that Rysn thought moved to look at her; I’m thinking that there’s something actually moving in there. Rysn thinks that the Dawnshard has no agency of its own (borne out by the heads moved after Rysn took up the Dawnshard), so it must be whatever was guiding the mandras, whatever let out the big roar right before Chiri-Chiri returned. Mama Larkin, or whoever it is. The Dawnshard refers to Chiri-Chiri as a “Guardian of Ancient Sins.” That implies, to me, that the larkin are, an intelligent race who were tasked with this mission as soon as the Dawnshards needed guarding. The Sleepless say they guard it because they have seen the “end of worlds,” (like what was mentioned in the Oathbringer interlude), so are the “Ancient Sins” the Shattering? Or perhaps the destruction of Ashyn and other planets like it (including, potentially, the Sleepless home world)? So when were the Dawnshards put under guard? After the Shattering? After the destruction of Ashyn? After some point during the Desolations? It must have been prior to the Recreance, but that's a very long amount of time. We’ve only found one Dawnshard; where are the other three? In Way of Kings, Honor references “Dawnshards,” plural, so presumably more of them were on Roshar, if not all of them. What is Honor about to suggest that can’t be done without Dawnshards? Splintering a Shard, I’d guess; he was suggesting they kill Odium. Which, in turn, makes me wonder if Odium has a Dawnshard, and has been using it to Splinter. But the Dawnshards were also used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls (by performing a great feat of magic, as suggested by the novella), so how did they get to Ashyn? Or perhaps the Dawnshards a cosmere-wide “plot point,” and Honor was suggesting that the Radiants track one down, himself oblivious to the fact that one was right under his nose on his very own planet? Who are the enemies who could make full use of a Dawnshard? Are they Shards? Are they powerful magic users? I assume you only need to be a magic user, which is why they won’t let Rysn bond a spren. That's what happened on Ashyn; somebody with a Dawnshard went too far and caused some problems. It also makes me wonder about the “one of them will destroy us” line from the Way of Kings back cover, and maybe the enemies they’re worried about are the Radiants themselves. Neither person in on the secret (Rysn, Cord) are Radiants, after all. If Dalinar looks for a Dawnshard to fight Odium, things could go wrong and destroy Roshar. Lastly, the greatest applications of Surgebinding. If Rysn’s Dawnshard is associated with growth, what we could call Cultivation’s Dawnshard, I’ll go out on a limb and suggest that Ishar used Honor’s Dawnshard to create the Radiants. An extremely powerful Surgebinding to set up the Oaths and the bonds and the Surge associations and all that. He may also have used it to bind the Oathpact. I go a little further and suggest he still has it, although now he doesn’t have Surgebinding to make use of it. Hmm, one more odd line towards the end of the book. Cord knows stories of this Dawnshard coming through the perpendicularity. That implies that the Dawnshards were being moved around separately through the Cosmere. Who brought this one to Roshar? When? And for what purpose (if there is any beyond just hiding it)? Lots to think about. A pleasant surprise, to be sure; I wasn’t expecting this much of a bomb in this story.
  9. 23 points
    OK so tidbits I picked up so far. Sleepless The Sleepless are few in number and seem to age and reproduce slowly. Their reproduction method apparently happens when one swarm splits off another grouping. This particular group of sleepless numbers only 24. It is unclear how many more there are on Roshar but no more are known. They have spied on and are worried about our radiants. Also apparenty the one Lift met is something of a maverick. We don't really know why but apparently they think Dalinar making the right choices is more dangerous then playing into the enemy's plans(I no idea why). Hoid warned the horneaters two generations ago that they could not fight the sleepless. Fabrails Huio is a genius and he invented the aluminum method that the Azish take credit for. It seems that it works by making it so that only some motions matter circular motion = back and forth as only lateral movement matters. I am really interested for Rysn to star Prof Xing around on a floating chair. Dawnshard Aimia's undersea caverns contain a DAWNSHARD that the sleepless are guarding. There are apparently four and they were used to shatter adonalsium. Sharders speculate that each made four of the four shads. Rysn has the one that makes things improve, change, grow and possibly learn(Endowment, Ruin, Cultivation, Wisdom?). According to Cord it came through Cultivation's perpendicularity. Hoid was effected by (another?) Dawnshard that turned him vegan under principles similar to savantism. Horneaters The Horneaters are awesome. More importantly the Horneaters have a sacred duty to control access to the perpendicularity which explains a little about RoW Perhaps the Horneaters were given sanctuary in exchange for this duty? I also wonder how old they are as a people. Did a group of singers do this ahead of time? Maybe they interbred with the humans specifically so that they could stick around? They apparently have a whole group of people who work in diplomacy/worship of the spren. Rock's enhanced strength comes from Mandras or luckspren. We still don't know what kind of spren they are but they apparently guard wealth so maybe prosperityspren? The Lopen Lopen and Huio leveled up! We got Lopen's third ideal. An interesting twist about self knowledge. Larkin Ancient Guardians, Larkin or Lanceryn as they originally were called were tasked perhaps even created to guard the dawnshard. They bond a particular kind of luckspen only found on Aimia. Eight soulcasters were found on Aimia. They were offerings to the larkin. It is unclear why they would want any. The sleepless managed to interbreed with the Larkin and took over their task of gaurding. Apparently Chiri-Chiri will in fact grow big enough to ride(can't wait). They are also a sapient species. I wonder what other abilities they might have? The Reshi The Reshi King Rysn met seems to have transitioned as of becoming a Dustbringer! The Reshi greatshells can communicate intelligent and important information? They also come to agreements about how to act? They have a "government" and uphold ideologies and causes? What else have we learned?
  10. 22 points
  11. 21 points
    I noticed this in the annotations for Dawnshard: Emphasis on the fact that he can’t eat meat. What!? Since when!? Does his curse to not be able to physically harm people also extend to animals, and therefore he cannot eat them? the most alarming and depressing part of this is this fact we have known for a while, quote: I know someone brought this up on the Reddit q and a already, but I needed to get this off my chest
  12. 21 points
  13. 20 points
  14. 20 points
  15. 20 points
    Hey guys! This is my 1,000 post! Woohoo! So, I decided to make a few memes because, well, I love memes! Enjoy!
  16. 19 points
    I suspect, after reading this, that the Third Ideal is less about hatred, per se, and more about not letting yourself get in the way of protecting others--or perhaps, rather, to not let your personal desires stop you from protecting others. As such, selflessness is the key principle of the Third Ideal. I think. "I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right." - Kaladin had to let go of his hatred of others and not allow it to determine his willingness to protect others, even those who arguably didn't deserve his protection, like Elhokar. "I will protect even those I hate, even if the one I hate most is myself." - Teft had to let go of his self-hatred, which was spiraling him downwards into self-pity, self-rejection, and self-torment. He had to be able to look outwards and focus on protecting those who need protection, notwithstanding his own failings. "I will protect those who hurt me." - Huio had to look past the way in which his cousin aggravates him. We get a small sense of how annoyed he gets by Lopen in this story. Can you imagine having to live with Lopen? For your whole life? There's probably a lot of hurt there that Lopen didn't necessarily mean, but it sounds like it was enough to be an obstacle for Huio to overcome to reject his emotional wounds in order to protect. "I will protect others from myself." - Again, it's the self that's getting in the way. Lopen wants to protect but his own personality, the one he's chosen, is getting between him and that ideal. In each of these, the primary element is not hatred, or some interpretation of hatred, but an interpretation of the character's focus on the self, and the need to set aside that self-centeredness in order to fulfill the Ideal. That Kaladin and Teft's interpretations of it deal with hatred is not endemic to the Third Ideal itself, but are instead manifestations of their strongly hateful character arcs at that point in time. The point is to give up the self.
  17. 19 points
    Thanks everyone! This is very nice! You can ping me for this
  18. 18 points
    I think it may have been something like “I will protect even those who hurt me most.” Because he truly doesn’t hate his cousin, but the Lopen has hurt him deeply. So hate doesn’t really make sense, but hurt does.
  19. 16 points
    The idea that the 16 Shards can be categorized in groups of 4 (a la Mistborn metals) is not a new one, and I think Dawnshard is going to further support that theory. The mural that seems to depict The Shattering of Adonalsium and imbues Rysn with her Command is described as having 16 "mostly symmetrical pieces" grouped into fours. So let's make groups of 4! I'm sure there's going to be tons of different theories on how the Shards are organized. Even when trying to find commonalities between all the Shards, there's bound to be people who see different patterns than others. Let's start with what we know, or at least what we think we know... About the Dawnshards in general: The Dawnshards are "the four primal Commands that created all things" The Dawnshards were used to undo Adonalsium itself Both a Command and Intent are required to use "the most powerful forms of Surgebinding [Magic]" that ordinarily "transcends traditional mortal understanding." These are demands "on a level no person could ever manage alone" -- a single person would not be able to handle wielding this combined power. So the Dawnshards predate the Shattering of Adonalsium and thus cannot have been created by the Shattering. They were used to create all things -- the power of creation, potentially wielded by Adoalsium, who is a deity. The people (Dragon, Human, mortal or immortal, but otherwise just people, not deities) who Shattered Adonalsium would have been incapable of using a Command on their own, even with the proper Intent. -- Could they have been required to work in groups of four? I think perhaps four people with similar Intents likely were needed to use each Command, and then the four Commands must have been used together to kill God. Four groups of four, with each person having a specific Intent that somewhat related to the Command they were helping to wield. And what do we know about the Commands specifically: Rysn's Command seems to have a theme, which is Change. "Accept it. Know it. CHANGE." "It was then that she grasped, in the smallest way, the nature of the Command inside her. The will of a god to remake things, to demand they be better. The power to change." Rysn seems to be able to appreciate colors and tastes much more clearly after being imbued with the Command, which is similar to the effects of investiture created by Endowment (Breaths, Nalthis) "Storms. Was it her, or did this tea taste extra good? She inspected it, then glanced at the sunlight pouring through the porthole. Was it . . . brighter than usual? Why did the colors in her room look so exceptionally vivid all of a sudden?" Rysn also appreciates the musicality in Drlwan's voice -- is this another effect similar to that of a Heightening? Or is Rysn potentially hearing the Rhythms of Roshar? "Strange, how she saw the contrast of shadows much more starkly now. And . . . why did Drlwan’s voice sound more musical?" The Command agrees(?) with Rysn's decision to let Cord keep her Shardplate out of tradition. Because it's the honorable thing to do? Because it's a gift that Rysn has endowed to Cord? Tradition, doing something because it has been done before, actually seems to be somewhat in opposition to the theme of "Change," so I feel this is important to explore. "'Cord discovered it,' Rysn said. 'It’s traditional to let the one who first claims a Shard keep it.' The Command pulsed with warmth as she said that." So based on this information, I feel pretty sure that we can at least begin to categorize the Shards. Everything that follows here is just my best guess at a grouping. CHANGE -- "The will of a god to remake things, to demand they be better. The power to change." Endowment -- Must be, based on the changes Rysn is experiencing. Even though I personally feel like it's a stretch to put this here. Advancement? The addition of things, or gaining of new things, to improve or grow? Cultivation -- Growth, personal improvement, etc. Could be the source of Rysn beginning to hear the Rhythms. Definitely belongs in this category. Ruin -- Entropy, decay, mortality. Definitely belongs in this category. ? SURVIVE -- The will of a god to create enduring life, that extends itself into infinity even beyond it's own death. The power to survive. Preservation -- Stability, safety, unchanging. Definitely belongs in this category, and really the basis for why I think "SURVIVE" or "LIVE" must be a command -- because Kelsier certainly hears the Command to SURVIVE in Mistborn, and it is not coming from Leras. Autonomy -- Self-reliance, individualism, independence. The ability to survive while depending on only yourself. Definitely belongs in this category. The unknown shard "who just wants to hide and survive." -- Obviously belongs in this category even though we don't know what the true intent is. ? UNITE -- The will of a god to bind things, to conncet people with eachother and with the land and life around them. The power to unite. Honor -- Oaths, connecting people to eachother, binding them to their words and traditions. Obviously belongs in this category, and the basis for why I think "UNITE" or "CONNECT" must be a command -- because Dalinar certainly hears the Command to UNITE all throughout SA, and it is not the Stormfather, nor is it Tanavast. Dominion -- Connecting people to the land, and to eachother with political power and territory. This one may be a stretch, but it's my best guess. I think it probably belongs in this category. ? ? CARE -- The will of a god to create meaning and purpose, to demand that life exists for a reason. The power to care. Odium -- Pasion, love, hatred, emotion, motivation (though "Motivation" would be a great Shard name on its own). Definitely belongs in this category. Devotion -- Purpose, worship, crusades/quests. This one is also a stretch; honestly I have the hardest time with the Selish Shards because their Intents are confusing to me. But I believe this one belongs here. You devote yourself to a mission or a purpose in life, whatever that may be.. Ambition -- Personal goals, enthusiasm, striving to achieve. If devotion belongs here then Ambition certainly does as well. ? If Wisdom is the Shard that just wants to "hide and survive" then it belongs under the SURVIVE Command. But if Wisdom is a completely different shard, then I would want to probably put it under the CHANGE command, because knowledge changes you. Actually... now that I think about it, I think there may be two Shards here. "Wisdom" is a thing that you have whereas "Knowledge" is something that you gain with time and experience and experimentation. I wouldn't be surprised to discover that "Wisdom" is the shard that wants to survive and hide, and keep its secrets, and just study the world as it is without affecting the outcome, and that there is another shard along the lines of "Knowledge" or "Discovery" that is about change through experiences. Anyway, just had to write down my own thoughts. I'm really interested to see how other people categorize the shards. And I'm also interested in thoughts on my categorizations and would love for people to poke holes in it or improve it or change it around so it fits better. What do you guys think?
  20. 16 points
    It's my Shardiversary! Hard to believe it's been one year. Wow. Granted, it's late, so I'd better be brief (let's see how brief I actually am). @Serce Forts, you are so amazing. You're an amazing friend, and I'm so glad I get to know you. Thanks for getting me on here, and thank you for all you have done for me. @Condensation and @Vapor, amazing siblings, thank you for joining me on here! FotT, my first real RP. 'tis sweet. I love the story, and I love all you guys. Thank you for teaching me how to actually RP. You are all amazing. Sanderson Elimination, a section I discovered during quarantine, is amazing. Thank you for the sense of community you have allowed me to find. I'm always surprised when I hear how many games I've played (10? How?) and I'm sorry if I'm kind of inactive. @revelryintheart, your art is amazing! Thank you for being there when I was busy, and it was great to meet you! @Shard of Thought, I can say the same for you. Thank you for being ready to take over when I needed it. I love hearing about your stories and your characters, and your art is phenomenal. I love it even more with context, and it's amazing without. @Matrim's Dice, thank you for being there as well. It was reassuring to know that the three of you were there in case anything happened. SE with you is great too, and I love your character concepts! @Nathrangking and @Scarletfox, I've loved reading your RP and have learned so much from it! @AonEne, thank you. Just thank you. I have no clue how you find time for all that you do, moderation and listening. Thank you for your constant offers to listen in PMs. Thank you for listening to my concerns and sharing them that time. Having someone to talk to really helped. @The_Truthwatcher, I've loved chatting with you. You're awesome. @Channelknight Fadran drat too many mentions it won't let me do more. I love your story and look forward to catching up *cough cough my bad*. @Emi and @Spren of Kindness, you are both so sweet and I love seeing you here. All of you are awesome, even if I missed mentioning you.
  21. 16 points
    In WoK, when Shallan and Kabsal were talking about Voidbringers, Kabsal said this: Ten Divine Attributes? But from the table of Essences, aren't there twenty Divine Attributes? I think it's reasonable to conclude that the twenty attributes in the table of Essences were derived from ten more general attributes, and that those ten are what Kabsal was referring to. This means we can group the twenty attributes into pairs, merge those pairs, then come up with the actual Ten Divine Attributes. So, how do we do that? There are several interesting possibilities. One is to try and merge the Primary and Secondary Attributes of each Essence: I will let someone else attempt that. I personally couldn't find a way to merge such pairs as "resolute and builder", "learned and giving", "just and confident", etc., but then English isn't my native language. Another option is to merge the Primary Attribute of an Essence to the Secondary Attribute of the previous Essence: This has the added benefit of potentially mapping each unified Divine Attribute to a Surge, thereby connecting the table of Essences to the Knights Radiant chart: Once again, I will let someone else attempt that. I tried to do it a few years ago, pre-WoR, but I wasn't super successful. What I ended up doing recently is slightly different but still connected to that second option. Yes, I still think that the Attributes can be mapped to the Surges, but this time I ignored the Primary and Secondary labels for the purpose of this exercise. (For what it's worth, there must be a point in marking an Attribute "Primary", but I'm choosing to ignore it for now as irrelevant.) So with all that said, here's my attempt: Adhesion: Devotion Pious: devotion to gods Protecting: devotion to the weak When you're devoted to something, you stick to it no matter what (or at least till the devotion is no longer there). Gravitation: Authority Leading: being followed Just: to follow a moral code People gravitate towards authority, people or belief systems that they can follow to get the answers or the direction they seek. Division: Independence Confident: free from doubt Brave: free from fear The Division Surge removes the stuff that binds things, thereby "releasing" them from a sort of "imprisonment" or "slavery" of bonds. This can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on the circumstance and the perspective. Just like how being free from doubt and fear can be good or bad. Abrasion: Attention Obedient: attention to rules/commands Loving: attention towards fellow man You tend to spend more time with people or things that you pay attention to or demand more of your attention, like a shoe experiencing more traction on a rough surface. But sometimes too much demand for your attention can wear away any interest you have, and your attention slips. If you don't pay attention to something, it might slip past you without you noticing, like something sliding quickly on oiled ground. Progression: Aid Healing: aiding the sick Giving: aiding the needy The Progression Surge is an aid to natural processes like the growth of living things or the healing of wounds, in that it makes those processes go faster, i.e. progress more. Illumination: Intellect Creative: productive intellect Learned: well-educated The intellect refers to the thing that supposedly allows us to know stuff, to understand, and to be creative. Enlightenment is what happens when you finally comprehend something. It is a concept directly related to the intellect, and is a word connoting light. Understanding brings illumination, and through it one sees. Transformation: Truth Honest: truthful Wise: able to discern truth The Surge of Transformation manipulates the truth about an object, changing its essence. Transportation: Stability Careful: avoiding error Resolute: unwavering in one's decisions The Surge of Transportation manipulates either the spatial or the realmatic stability of objects, allowing either teleportation or realmatic transition. Cohesion: Ingenuity Builder: assembles parts into a whole Resourceful: makes clever solutions Ingenuity means both cleverness and inventiveness. It is the ability to combine things into something useful and innovative. The Cohesion Surge allows the ingenuity of the user to manifest in any chosen material by shaping it to reflect his ideas, creating a cohesive structure built for a certain purpose. Tension: Responsibility Dependable: takes responsibility for assigned tasks Guiding: sets an example for others Responsibility can cause tension when the things you need to do and the things you'd rather do become opposite pulling forces. Your obligations, the oaths you've sworn, and the people who look up at you can all cause this tension. The key is to allow this tension to stretch you enough to make you stronger, but not stretch you past your breaking point. Mapping the Attributes to the Surges like this has another benefit: It allows us to rearrange both the Attributes and the Surges at the same time. In this framework, moving an Attribute moves the corresponding Surge, and vice versa. Why am I interested in moving things around? Well, I first thought about it several years ago when we learned that Illumination was connected to Pulp and Blood; I felt Illumination seemed more thematically connected to Spark and Lucentia. At the time, I tried "fixing" that with an alternative chart, but mostly failed. The idea of rearrangement came back to me a couple of months ago when I re-discovered a Way of Kings annotation showing that Brandon apparently experimented with various Knights Radiant chart versions. Here is one of his experiments from 2003: Notice how the Surges had different names back then (Division=Decay, Illumination=Energy, etc.), and different positions, and some probably were replaced with something else entirely in later drafts (like Awakening, maybe). Anyway, I was trying to work on a theory about the Dawnshards being of Cultivation around the same time last year. Seeing this previous iteration of the Knight Radiant chart, it suddenly occurred to me that a Cultivation magic system might have Surges and Attributes just like Honor's system, but changed somehow. And that's how I came up with the Elevations and Callings of Dawnshards theory.
  22. 15 points
    Hello, friends! I wanted to make a thread of thank you to Chaos for running this server, because I feel like people don't really realize how much work he probably has to put into this, and he probably doesn't realize how much we appreciate him. You can just say like, 'thank you chaos!,' or you can elaborate on something you appreciate about Chaos. So for me, thank you Chaos for running 17th Shard! I know that you put a lot of work into keeping this server regulated and safe, and you have to put up with a bunch of us punky teens who are constantly goofing off, we really do appreciate what you do for us!
  23. 15 points
    I’ve never been a Lopen-hater. But I have always understood why he would grate on some people. What Brandon pulled off with him in this story was amazing. I saw where it was going right before it happened that Huio would essentially be the stand in for all of the people who are exasperated by the Lopen and it gave me chills. Then, to top it off, the Lopen acknowledges that by loving himself so much, he’s essentially acting as though he hates everyone else. So he vows to protect everyone else from himself via a hilarious convo with the Stormfather. Storming brilliant.
  24. 15 points
    Ok so people are getting the book weeks before the release I'm now considering the possibility of becoming an Youtuber dedicated to books. I will work hard for the next 3 years to become sufessful and get many subscribers. After that I will finally get a copy of SA5 for myself 20 days before anyone else and shut down my channel right after that
  25. 15 points
    It’s not being a vegetarian that’s the issue, there’s nothing wrong with being a vegetarian, it’s that he isn’t really doing it by choice. He’s a vegetarian because he’s incapable of doing otherwise; even though he loves the taste of bacon, he’s incapable of actually eating it. It’s more similar to someone who loves the taste of peanut butter being allergic to peanuts. Being incapable of eating your favorite food would really suck.
  26. 14 points
    OUR GIRL IS ACE, WE HAVE REP, WOOHOO This is a party thread of joy and positivity and celebration. Everyone's allowed to hang out here, but all "why did this have to happen" "ugh I don't care" and especially "I wish she wasn't a minority" or "well asexuality is stupid" type posts will be hidden. If you're not happy with Jasnah's orientation, romantic or sexual, then I suggest you stay off this thread. You're definitely allowed to wish she was another form of queer and headcanon her as that, but this thread will focus on her canon identity. I am creating an echo chamber of positivity and love. I'm going to request that RoW spoilers maybe not be gone into depth here, they'd be off-topic anyway but some of us haven't read all the chapters. Thank you! @The Awakened Salad @revelryintheart @MetaTerminal @The_Truthwatcher @Greywatch pinging all the ace frens I know, yell at me if you want to be left alone
  27. 14 points
    Here's my spoiler-free review: There's also a written version:
  28. 13 points
    Hello everyone! If you haven't seen our announcement news post, go check it out right now, or just visit the app directly! We're very excited to finally share this with all of you, but we're also aware that there might be issues despite our best efforts to iron out any bugs we could find. Let us know here if you find anything, but please provide the following information, which helps make the investigation process much easier: Device Type: PC, Laptop, Phone, Tablet, Smart Fridge, Spanreed, ... Device Model: For PCs, we'd especially like to know what GPU you're using Browser: Google Chrome, Mozilla Firefox, Safari, ... It's best if you can also provide a version here! Connectivity: Are you visiting on mobile data or WiFi/LAN? Steps to reproduce: What did you try to do when the issue occurred? Can you make the problem appear again? If you find typos, factual errors, or otherwise are missing some information, please also let us know with details on which item is affected. You can also let us know any positive opinions and suggestions for improvement, of course! Have fun exploring Roshar!
  29. 13 points
    Anyone’s thoughts on Nightblood being (or heavily being touched by) Command: DESTROY? It seems like it would fit the power level... I also really want to call the Dawnshards Create.exe, Destroy.exe, etc...
  30. 13 points
    Well, I know that’s another one, but this one is nice, so here it is:
  31. 13 points
    I think you're really onto something with Passion and didn't think of it. Brandon confirmed that there was a significance to the way Odium and Ruin spoke about Passion and he confirmed that there would be Shards who did not refer to it that way. Edit: Found the WoB
  32. 13 points
    I agree that Honor and Dominion and Devotion are a group. All involve bonds: Devotion is the bonds of people; Dominion is the bond with Land; and Honor is the bonds of the self. Their Dawnshard would be about bonds. Unity? Preservation does not fit in this group. Endowment, Cultivation, and Ruin all seem to be a group and would be tied to Rysn’s Dawnshard. They’re all change, and I think you’ve got the types right. But I don’t think Ambition goes with them. I hypothesize that Ambition and Autonomy are in a group, and their Dawnshard may be about will. Ambition is the Will to grow. Autonomy is the Will to be free. Will? I further hypothesize that Preservation and Odium are in a group. Both have shown elements of the unchanging void. Odium is the unchanging self. Those who bond to him, who give him their pain, become void and are unable to grow. Preservation is the world frozen. It is the void where time does not move. I suspect both are connected to the idea of eternity. Nothing changes in the void.
  33. 13 points
    Personal comments: Nale looks awesome. His outfits really remember me a constable, but there is some mix of both senerity and concern on his expression, it just looks right depction of him Chanarach looks nice too, but I expected a illustration of the Herald of the Dustbringers to looks more... I don't know, war-like? She looks too peaceful for me Btw, now we have illustrations of all Heralds except Battar
  34. 13 points
  35. 12 points
    Noobs. You forget Daliner
  36. 11 points
    So this is a tidbit that I haven't seen discussed yet. We've known they exist on other planets, but this is confirmation that they're not Roshar natives: At the same time, we learned something new about their biology; the really big centipede-like hordlings that Lopen fights have violet blood. In addition, hordlings are often distinguishable from cremlings by an external violet coloring. The first time we ever saw one was that purple "cremling" that Kaladin noticed while he was enslaved. Here's the quotes: Who else has violet carapace? Chiri-chiri: Now, I can't prove definitely that violet carapace corresponds with violet blood, but I have another reason to believe that larkin blood is violet: chasmfiend blood is also violet. Given the descriptions of Chiri-chiri "trumping" I don't think it's a stretch to say that they might be related. Why am I hung up over the violet blood? Because of what it might imply about which life is native to Roshar. The Listeners have orange blood, and they are the only known native Rosharans. Are all the creatures with violet blood invasive? Are they from the same planet as the Sleepless? However, I have reasons to believe that creatures with violet blood are native. First of all comes anatomy. Creatures from off-world would not have gemhearts with which they can bond spren. The very fact that they're large crustaceans who require Roshar's higher oxygen level, lighter gravity, and spren bonds to survive seems to indicate that they are native to the planet. In addition, violet blood is found in axehounds, who don't really have any ties to the Larkin or Sleepless as far as I can tell: The largest reason I think these creatures are native, however, is coevolution. Spren bonds on Roshar are a form of mutualistic symbiosis—when organisms of different species interact closely for mutual benefit. The most well-known example of this in our world is pollinating insects. Many of these insects are fairly indiscriminate. European honeybees happily pollinate flowers found in North America, even though those species did not evolve together. The same seems to be true for most of the Mandra on Roshar, who bond with all sorts of creatures from skyeels to chasmfiends to santhids. Some of these creatures did not necessarily need to evolve alongside the Mandra in order to interact with them now. Theoretically, you could drop a brand-new massive creature into Roshar, and if it had a gemheart, these Mandra might be able to bond it. However, symbiosis can be much, much more specific. There's a lot of bacteria that are specific to the digestive tracts of different animals species, but there's also examples of specific pollinators. Perhaps the coolest is the Darwin's moth: Look at that tongue! This moth is the result of coevolution, and it can only pollinate a specific flower in the Galapagos. Likewise, the flower can only be pollinated by this moth. Such a specific interaction is a clear indicator that these two species evolved together. In fact, Darwin first predicted the existence of this moth when he examined the flower which it pollinates. The first specimen of the moth wasn't found until years after his death. Now let's look at the Larkin. They can't just bond with any Mandras, but with a subspecies found only in Akinah. Chiri-chiri hasn't reached a size yet where the greater potency of the Akinah Mandra should be necessary for her survival. Normal Mandra can hold up chasmfiends, for goodness sake. Instead, by some biological or magical mechanism, I think Chiri-chiri is incapable of bonding other Mandra. Part of the definition of coevolution is that it must be reciprocal. Both species must be evolving in response to the other. Why would Mandras exist on Roshar which meet the exact needs of the Larkin/Laceryn? How could the Larkin/Laceryn ever exist before these Mandra did, or vice versa? The answer is that they didn't. This was, undoubtedly, coevolution taking place. It is a clear sign that these species are native to Roshar. Either they've lived on Roshar for thousands of generations, or they were created by Adonalsium in this state (in which case they would also be native). Therefore, I think that the purple-ness of the hordelings is from interbreeding with native Rosharan life. Nikli mentions that their hordelings can breed with the Larkin. And we also know that Adonalsium made species like Humans and Parshendi biologically compatible. Interbreeding like this would likely be the quickest way for the Sleepless to have blended in to Roshar when they first arrived. The weird purple hordelings probably look different from cremlings because they're part-Larkin. I don't have much of a theory here, I guess. TL;DR: I got hung up over the color of some blood and carapace, but in the end I'm concluding that the Sleepless are the only invasive species and they've blended in by breeding hordelings with native Rosharan life. EDIT: Well, somehow I wrote this whole thing without realizing there was an extremely pertinent WoB: I think this generally supports my interpretation, although it doesn't specifically address the origins of the Larkin. Also this WoB, which is mostly tangential to my theory but is still cool:
  37. 11 points
    I wonder if Rysn now had some passive benefits of 4 shard investiture? She notices Endiwnment, but I wonder what else might be in there (or maybe all 4 shards in that team can grant that somehow). I am thinking the team is based in the “Accept it Know it CHANGE”, so Endowment - change through gift Cultivation - change through grown Ambition - change through will Maybe Ruin? - Change through time? Dalinar had also seen words that glow and give off light. Is Unite one of the Dawnshards (maybe a splintered one Odium thought he destroyed or Unmade?) Honour Dominion Devotion Preservation?
  38. 11 points
    AHHHH I’M SO HAPPY!!! Okay, check out this. this is a new art program I just bought:
  39. 11 points
    Incoming bad pun:
  40. 10 points
    The thing that really interested me was just how utterly different Huio is from Lopen. Very down-to-earth and even scholarly, a huge contrast from his jovial, goofy cousin. I liked that a lot. But I also really liked seeing Lopen in action. His dive into the sea to save the sailor who went overboard, and then his use of his Surgebinding to help the captain keep a firm footing, it shows that even though he may come across as "the class clown" of Bridge Four, when the pressure's on he's still got the heart and soul of a true Windrunner.
  41. 10 points
    My guess is that has to do with being able to look at them from Shadesmar and see their Cognitive aspect as different.
  42. 10 points
    I am glad that Kal has found a new purpose and will be helping Lirin. However, I am a little put off by Lirin's attitude. His smugness at proclaiming that he was right all along is definitely not a good look for him.
  43. 10 points
    Here's one I've seen. Don't give me credit!
  44. 10 points
    Download, flip, zoom. Edit: This is about the size I had it. Still pretty blurry but at that point it's more getting a feel off the shapes than actually reading them. Brains are good at pattern recognition, so don't think too hard and see what comes to you.
  45. 9 points
    I’m very sorry if this is the wrong place, but, Dawnshard memes! (I think it’s self explanatory) Here are a few that I have made: (Dawnshard spoilers)
  46. 9 points
    Here's a short parody of a section in Mistborn: "Your first lesson," Kelsier said, strolling down the street, Vin trailing along beside him, "isn't about Allomancy, but attitude." He swept his hand forward. "This, Vin. This is ours. The day, the lynch - they belong to us. Most sharders avoid voting as if it were death. Some RPers talk during the day, but they fear it nonetheless. Admins feign nonchalance, but the lynch makes them uncomfortable. He turned, regarding her. "The lynch is your friend, Vin. It hides you, it protects you...and it gives you power."
  47. 9 points
  48. 9 points
    Just finished the book and i'm still gathering my thoughts, but this just came to me. Maybe the Set are in possession of a Dawnshard. It seems like they have the ability to wipe out all life on Scadrial if this quote is to be believed: And this seems to be the Sleepless' exact fear when it comes to people finding Dawnshards: What do you all think?
  49. 9 points
    I think it is pretty clear that there were at least two Dawnshards in the system as at one point Honour said “without the dawnshardS” I seems like Nohadon likely held it at one point as his cognitive aspect seems to not fully be dead. Then we know Meleeshi used a Dawnshard to BIND which does not seem in-line with CHANGE. It seems Honour thought BIND/UNITE to be lost, but that Honour was not 100% correct and that Dalinar is being fed the Dawnshard through the Way of Kings; remember him seeing words that glow with warmth and Jasnah dictated the book at the day of Gavilars funeral? Somehow a Dawnshard thought “dead” is being revived and Dalinar is assesinding to it.
  50. 9 points
    The Dustbringer motto is: I will seek self-mastery. This feels very like some martial arts type idea to me, so her looking zen makes a lot of sense. I’d kind of expect 5th oath Dustbringers to be very, very calm and very, very lethal.
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