Leaderboard

Right, on the subject of crediting memes and avoiding posting duplicates - while also not expecting people to reading 170+ pages before sharing a thing, I will say (mostly unofficially; this is coming from me, I don't know how many of the other mods or admins agree): If you made it, you can post it If you found it, at least link to where you found it. You don't need to go on a reverse image search quest, but a lot of the images you find on Google will come from either Reddit, or this thread; either way, it's easy to credit the creator (and a real one)

Reading Chapter 8 made me wonder why Kaladin suddenly seemed to react so strongly to what Moash was saying and I think there's a factor outside his depression. I think it's significantly linked to him running out of Stormlight just at that moment. Ever since the beginning Kaladin described the intense feeling of taking in Stormlight, and I think he's been self-medicating his depression by using Stormlight excessively. The feeling of that takes his negative thoughts away and so he's now become accustomed to having it when he's in stressful situations (i.e. fights). I think his reaction to Moash makes a lot more sense when looking at it as Kaladin having a 'come-down' from this 'drug' as he's now not used to dealing with these thoughts on his own anymore, which is why Moash's words affect him so much in this more vulnerable state. Edit: This might be a precursor to Stormlight Savantism where you struggle to function normally without it? Edit 2: Upon rereading the chapter, there's a marked difference between Kaladin's attitude to Moash before vs after he's run out of Stormlight. Compare the last thing he says to Moash before he runs out of Stormlight to the first thing he says after

For some reason, brain went directly to the spheres Lirin stole from Wistiow when I read the description of Renarin's light as diamond-like. Just spent a while flipping through Way of Kings to find this. Chapter 31 Kaladin flashback: (the townfolk confront Lirin asking for Wistiow's spheres) Note: the goblet is full of diamond broams. And from today's chapter: While there's a few parallels in how the light is described in these scenes, what I find most interesting is the contrast between the cold light of Lirin and the warm light of Renarin. I think this is at least partially intentional, especially since they both take place in Hearthstone. Brandon is making a literary comparison between how Lirin and Renarin ward away Kaladin's fears. Lirin's light is the cold confidence of the surgeon. He sees the truth with brutal objectivity, and it is his voice that tells Kaladin "Move on to someone you can help, his father seemed to say. This one is dead." There's nothing wrong with this worldview, but it's not what Kaladin needs. He's been hearing these words his whole life, but he's never been able to accept things the way that Lirin does. And that is because of how cold Lirin is, bordering on dispassionate—something that the parshwoman running Hearthstone notes as well. Lirin's cool composure is a turn-off for Kaladin, who sees his philosophy as uncaring. Lirin's light shines on the people of Hearthstone and makes them look foolish. It scolds them. What Kaladin needs is warmth and comfort. Where Lirin would chastise Kaladin for failing to "let go" and move on from failure, Kaladin needs somebody to hug him and tell him that it's okay to mess up. Renarin's light shines on Moash and Kaladin and reveals their stronger selves. It uplifts them.

I'm guessing she did something innocent as a child, but with terrible consequences. Like lightweaving an illusion to trick someone, except it went all wrong and set in motion the downfall of her family. I'm sad that the impression is that whatever the deeper truth is, it's apparently painful. Like, even more painful than murdering her own parents. Is this just Shallan or all Lightweaver truths/oaths not just a reflection about themselves, but a dark one? It'd be nice for her final truth to be something like, "Despite my deeds I'm not a bad person."

Moash was definitely trying to convince Kaladin to kill himself. First, he references the time in WoK when Kaladin nearly did decide to kill himself. He says that Kaladin had the right idea at that time. He then says that the only way for Kaladin to stop hurting is for him to stop existing. He then tries to force Kaladin to say out loud that he agrees with Moash that the only way is to go back to the cliff and jump. Moash says that he found a better way for himself - surrendering to Odium. But he says the only way for Kaladin is suicide. Having been close to someone that was suicidal as I'm sure many of us have, this is exactly the way they think. It's dangerous to even talk like this, to reinforce those kinds of thoughts in their heads. These ideas are wrong. But they can't see it, they can't think about anything else or put their life in perspective because they are in a bad place. So if anyone struggling is reading this, my message to you is remember who is saying these things in the book - an evil villain. A person who lies, who doesn't have your best interest in mind. Who has lost the ability to see the good, not by damage but by choice. Remember that things aren't as bad as they seem, that it's not all bad and that even if things are bad now, things can and will be good again. Break the cycle of bad thoughts in your mind. Remember the good times, remember that you have choice in your life to remove the bad. And seek help from a loved one and/or a professional.

Renarin continues to be awesome.

So for the longest time everyone has said they think that Kaladins 4th Oath is “I will forgive myself for those I cannot save” and I have disagreed. Not because I don’t think that’s his Oath. But because I think from a Literary perspective that it makes more sense for that to be his 5th Oath. At his core Kaladin’s biggest issue has been his inability to accept failure. And so for his character to come full circle it only makes sense for him to resolve that as his 5th Oath. So, into his 4th. I have always believed that this Oath will be about accepting that to protect you may have to kill. My reasoning for this is in the first book Kaladin goes and kills a lot of Listeners. At the end and through Words of Radiance he questions Syl why it was ok for him to kill them but not Elhokar. For the final battle of book 2 Kaladin finds himself out of action against the Listeners and we get what I think is our first glimpse into Kaladins issue. He only fights Szeth and he doesn’t kill him. He wounds him and the storm kills Szeth. then in Oathbringer in Kholinar Kaladin fights against the Fused and Singers. But he’s conflicted. He’s made friends with a lot of the Singers from earlier and now has to watch his friends fight against each other. Then he fails Elhokar. Now in chapter 8 Kaladin reasons with himself that he should finish off Moash and finds himself unable to do so. if we query the gemstone archive epigraph from Oathbringer, a Windrunner says he will soon swear the 4th Oath. But he’s not sure he can. Shouldn’t he want to help people? The wording has always made me question. How does being ok with not saving people directly go against wanting to help people. It doesn’t. You can be ok with failure because you’re still trying to help. But directly killing people who will cause harm does seem to be against helping people. anyway that’s my reasoning, mostly I think Kaladin being ok with his failings leaves him nowhere to grow in the 5th Oath. And his 5th Oath should really be the climax growth of his character.

This theory pulls together a lot of the loose ends left dangling at the end of OB into the what I believe is the most compelling case for the identity of the Sibling. This theory has a little bit of something for everyone, an explanation for the significance of the color of the Moons of Roshar, a satisfying explanation of the Realmatic source of Voidlight, the true nature of the Stormstriders, what exactly happened with Melishi's strikeforce, and of course the identity of the Sibling. So grab some popcorn and buckleup, it's a long ride. This theory started percolating when considering the extreme oddity of the three Rosharan moons, and the most strikingly their color. And from the offhand comment the POV character made in the RoW Interlude included in Brandon's July 7th Newsletter (spoilered below). We know from WoB (spoilered below, emphasis added) that each of the invested Shards on Roshar has a specific color or system of colors associated with them, Odium is red/gold, Honor is white/blue and Cultivation is green. The color that is noticeably missing, that happens to be one of the colors of the 3 moons of roshar, and happens also to be the color of the weird anti-glow nimbus of someone using Voidlight, and is coincidentally one of the two colors depicting linking relationships in the voidbinding chart is violet (the other voidbinding chart color is a yellow gold, clearly signifying Odium). This was the basis for the theory, but all good theories live or die on the solidness of the proof. The main proof for this theory comes from looking at the records in the Gem Archive and assuming that the drawer locations and gem numbers of the individual entries imply a rough relative chronology. I think it plausible to assume that the earliest gems would be placed in the lowest number drawers, and that the sequentially numbered gems are explicitly stating their relative chronology. The entries that refer to external events would seem to confirm this chronological assumption (and are noted in the comments below the entries). At the end of this post all of the entries for the gem archive are placed in chronological order based on drawer numbers and gem numbers, for anyone who just want's to read through the raw chronological listing. The gem archive is comprised of the following 3 types of entries: Personal Records (of the least interest to us in this investigation, with the exception of the Truthwatcher ones) Entries about the Tower and the Sibling (very important ones) Entries about the War with the Parsh during the False Desolation (including Melishi's strike force (also very important ones)) So given the above divisions of content and the assumption that drawer location and numbers reveal a chronological ordering, we can arrange the significant entries into a rough thematic and chronological ordering. Each ordered entry states the Drawer-Sub drawer number: Gem Type (Associated Radiant Order) and CH# where the epigraph can be found in the text. After the entry is a contextualizing footnote. Before we begin, I have to say, that after ordering and arranging them a very singular narrative begins to emerge with gaps that can be filled in by some educated surmises. First I'll give you the facts and then present the Grand Unifying Theory. PART 1: Personal Records The only really noteworthy entry in this category (other than the Truthwatcher entries that will be placed in the Tower/Sibling subcategory) is the following Drawer 24-18: Smokestone (Skybreaker) CH 67 Boy is that a doozy! This clearly establishes that at the time of the False Desolation the Sibling was unbonded, because if the sole Bondsmith was bonded to the Sibling there wouldn't have been any uncertaintity as to what is happening with the functioning of the Tower. It also means that the sole Bondsmith, Melishi, was either bonded to the Stormfather or the Nightwatcher (more on this later). PART 2: Records about the Tower and Sibling In this series of entries you can see that the Gem Archive records start with an undisclosed Elsecaller investigating the Sibling, implying that something was off about the Sibling at the start of our Archive derived chronology. Drawer 1-1: First Zircon (Elsecaller) CH 68 On first reading, this would seem to imply that Sibling has already withdrawn. But I think based on the subsequent entry by (I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume) the same Elsecaller Radiant, the tower is still partially functional. This Elsecaller investigated the Sibling in the Cognitive realm, and I think the reason that he/she doesn't hold that the Sibling has withdrawn by intent is that in fact the Sibling at this point hasn't withdrawn, at least not fully. The "I find counter to that theory" implies that she has some direct evidence that either 1) The Sibling hasn't withdrawn by intent or 2) The Sibling hasn't fully Withdrawn, or 3) The premise that the Sibling has withdrawn is false because some other process is at work upon the Sibling (namely corruption by Sja-Anat) that is causing the malfunctioning of Urithiru's subsystems. I'll return to this later in the Grand Unifying Theory portion. Drawer 1-1: Second Zircon (Elsecaller) CH 69 This shows that even when some Radiants believed that the Sibling had withdrawn, something was still powering some of the subsystems at Urithiru. Drawer 1-1: Third Zircon (Elsecaller) CH 70 Just more confirmation by the Elsecaller who has investigated what is going on with the Sibling from the Cognitive Realm (who likewise knows that Urithiru, at this point, is still somewhat functional) that an abnormal process is at work with the Sibling. Drawer 2-22: Smokestone (Skybreaker) CH 67 This is early in the Gem Archives and shows that the plan to abandon the tower followed pretty shortly after the beginning of the breakdown of Urithiru's subsystems. Drawer 3-11: Garnet (Lightweaver) CH 73 This one is far more interesting, and one of the prime pieces of evidence for the speculation that Sja-Anat had been assualting the Tower. The two Truthwatcher entries in this series are also evidence for this surmise, with the small emerald one basically being a confirmation that Sja-anat had been at the very least actively corrupting Radiant spren. Drawer 8-1: Amethyst (WIllshaper) CH 65 This entry, and the ones that highlight the divisions in the tower, shows that the withdrawal from Urithiru was a stepped process, not a single mass exodus. Drawer 8-21: Second Emerald (Truthwathcer) CH 60 This combined with the drawer 30-2 small emerald heavily implies Sja-anat's presence at the Tower. We know that seeing the future is actually voidbinding (per Argent's signed book WoB). So this Truthwatcher might be wary because his/her fellow Truthwatchers are being secretive about their spren (because they are corrupted) or because prophetic writing similar to Renarin's count down to the True Desolation had begun to appear in the Tower. Drawer 16-16: Amethyst (Willshaper) CH 63 Another entry that highlights the divisions in the tower and shows that the leaving of the tower was a protracted affair. Drawer 24-18: Smokestone (Skybreaker) CH 67 This entry is included to show its chronological context, because it is a VERY important entry, and the fact that the Sibling hadn't been bonded in a generation is very significant. Drawer 27-19: Topaz (Stoneward) CH 64 This entry is important for establishing a link to the external chronology by giving a plausible reason why the assualt at Feverstone keep was predominantly Windrunners. The record of 2-22 shows that at least one Skybreaker was displeased with abandoning Urithiru, and that group tends to act like a school of herring, one opinion is probably indicative of the opinion of the group. With the Skybreakers dragging their heels about leaving, and with the conflict between the orders at a fever pitch, it's a reasonable surmise to say this is one of the reasons that most of the Windrunners were present at the Feverstone Keep Recreance vision of Dalinar's. Drawer 29-29: Ruby (Dustbringer) CH 87 This, to me, reads like the last goodbye to Urithiru. And because it precedes the drawer 30 Melishi strikeforce Emerald series, it seems like at this point most of the Radiants had given up on the tower as a lost cause. Drawer 30-20: A particularly small emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 85 This entry shows that at least one Truthwatcher at the tower had their spren corrupted by Sja-Anat. With the alarmist tone of the Emerald in drawer 8-21 about being concerned about their fellow Truthwatchers, and the drawer 3-11 garnet expressing worry about the towers defenses being compromised, it's a reasonable surmise to think that Sja-Anat was active at the Tower. So the rough chronology of events about the Sibling and the Tower established through the Archive is the following: The Sibling began to behave strangely, things started to not work at Urithiru (assumed pre-archive) An Elsecaller investigated what was going on by checking on the Sibling in the CR and found that contrary to the general perception, the Sibling had not withdrawn with intent (this leaves several possibilities open, namely only part of the sibling had withdrawn or the sibling had been corrupted) Shortly after the Elsecaller's investigations into the problems at Urithiru, a decision was reached to abandon the tower. At least one Skybreaker objected to this, and this could be the start of the deepening divisions among the orders. Shortly after the decision to abandon the tower was reached, a Lightweaver expressed worry about the tower's defenses, implying that the problems with the Sibling were likely to affect the Tower's defense. Not too long after the concern over the tower's defenses were expressed, a Truthwatcher records his worry about his fellow Truthwatchers (sounds like a sublte assualt to me). General dissention reigns at Urithiru. The majority of the Radiants leave the tower. Melishi, the sole Bondsmith, and his strikeforce leave the tower to confront Ba-Ado-Mishram. PART 3: Records about the War with the Parsh & Imprisonment of Ba-Ado-Mishram This is a pretty straightforward chronology, but where useful, the comments following the record entries contextualize the entry in terms of the Sibling/Tower chronology. Drawer 19-2: Third Topaz (Stoneward) CH 84 This is one of those records that establishes a correlation of the Archives with an external chronology. It's after the Willshaper returns to a squabbling tower (Drawer 16-16 amethyst) and before the disagreement with the Skybreaker and Windrunners record (Drawer 27-19 topaz). Of special note is the fact that there is no mention of the enemy having access to Voidlight at this point. Drawer: 20-10, Zircon (Elsecaller) CH 83 This I think is a small bit of foreshadowing, namely that the only perfect gem we know of, The Honor's Drop, is mentioned before the strikeforce sets out to imprison Ba-Ado-Mishram in a perfect gem. We know from Oathbringer that prior to the battle of Thaylen Fields the Honor's Drop wasn't imprisoning an Unmade, suggesting heavily that whatever had previously been imprisoned in the Honor's Drop no longer is. Drawer: 29-5, Topaz (Stoneward) CH 58 Chronologically and thematically this is interesting. On the eve of the Melishi's strikeforce operation, even the most dependable of Radiants were beginning to question themselves. Is this from the ramifications of what was going to be attempted with Melishi's strikeforce? Was this from the ravings of Honor? Was this from the corrupting influence of Sja-Anat? Whatever the cause, this record clearly sets the stage for the only view of the Recreance we get at Feverstone Keep, where predominantly Stonewards and Windrunners broke their bonds. Drawer: 30-20, First Emerald (Truthwathcer) CH 77 This is the beginning of the denouement for the Knights Radiant. This is the eve of the Recreance, and chronologically it's immediately preceded by a Dustbringer bidding adieu to Urithiru (abandoned), the Sibling (withdrawn possibly partially, fully, or corrupted), and the Radiants (who very shortly will cease to exist as a group due to the wholesale abandonment of their oaths). Drawer: 30-20, Second Emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 78 My guess is that one of the scholar radiants in this group is the Elsecaller who investigated the anomalies of the workings of Urithiru regarding the Sibling at the start of the Gem Archive. And further that her special understanding of how Voidlight was supplied enabled Melishi's strategem. Drawer: 30-20, Third Emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 79 This one is an obvious call back to the Drawer 20-10 Zircon (the one about capturing an Unmade in a perfect gem), and implies heavily that at least part of Ba-Ado-Mishram was trapped within Honor's Drop by Melishi post strikeforce ops. Drawer: 30-20, Fourth Emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 80 Of special note in this entry is the only parrallel between what BAM and Odium did was in regards to the Connection with the Parsh. The implication from continuing to read the sentence is that Voidlight is supplied through this connection, but the entry only explicitly states that only the manner of Connection was similar. This is VERY important in the Grand Unifying Theory portion below. Drawer: 30-20, Fifth Emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 81 This seems to be only of Realmatic signifigance in that Connection and Identity are important for assuming forms of power. Drawer: 30-20, Final Emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 82 Just a reminder that the False Desolation occurred after Aharietiam, and the fact that the Heralds lied about the Last Desolation is just one more reason to throw in the towel and give up on Radiance. The rough chronology of events in the War agains the Parsh in the False Desolation (with asides about where this fits in with the events in the Sibling/Tower timeline) are: The subsystems are failing at Urithiru, and there are fractious divisions amongst the Orders at Urithiru before the war with the Parsh (that comprises the False Desolation) are mentioned. The first mention of the war that would turn into the False Desolation is the drawer 19-2 topaz that talks about the Parsh's push to Feverstone Keep (which is a significant location because that's our one view of the Recreance) Before Melishi's strikeforce leaves to imprison BAM, even the Stonewards are questioning thier place as Radiants. That's a bad sign. Melishi's strikeforce sets out with the stated aims of 1) Denying the enemy their source of Voidlight and 2) Imprisoning Ba-Ado-Mishram (heavily implying that the second objective will accomplish the first). PART 4: The Grand Unifying Theory A lot of the preliminary thought about this is covered in my post about Voidlight not being Odium's Investiture which I initially abandoned but am starting to reassess as perhaps being more or less on the right track (spoilered below): So, you have seen the rough chronological progression of events, as reconstructed from the Gem Archives. Here is the Grand Unifying Theory, with each link in the speculative chain presented with evidence spoilered below it. The color of the Moons of Roshar corresponds to the 3 types of Investiture present on Roshar. Nomon (blue) represents Honor's investiture, Stormlight, (distributed through the Highstorm), Mishim (green) represents Cultivation's investiture, Cultivationlight, (most likely distributed through the Crem cycle), and Selas (violet) represents another type of Investiture,Voidlight, which I believe is another ecological manifestation of investiture, namely the formation of gem hearts in the native fauna on Roshar. We've seen spheres infused with Voidlight, the Fused giving off a nimbus black-violet anti-glow implying they are using Voidlight, and a Fabrial that uses Voidlight to suppress Radiance. The only explicity stated source of Voidlight was BAM in the False Desolation. Ba-Ado-Mishram (note the double hyphenation) is a tripartite being, and is the Sibling. The Sibling is a fusion of the original gods of the Singers, the spren of Spren, Stone and Wind, formed from the primitive beliefs of the native life on Roshar pre-shattering. I believe that it's a reasonable surmise that the 3 means of dispersing Investiture predated the arrival of Honor and Cultivation, and that the Singers original Gods were powerful Spren born of the accretion and focus of the three different systems of Investiture distribution. To extend the surmise, it's quite likely that when Honor and Cultivation invested on Roshar, and began investing in 2 of the 3 pre-existing channels for investiture distribution, namely the High Storm and the Crem cycle, the Singer's original Gods of the Wind and the Spren were displaced, leaving only the God of Stone (the one responsible for gemheart formation) with unfiltered Power, and speculative to be sure, but the God of Stone portion of the Sibling is probably the Sibling's primary aspect due to it's unsupplanted function. Probably the most compelling piece of evidence that Ba-Ado-Mishram is the Sibling is the chronological series of events presented in thg Gem Archive. When the battery for Urithiru stopped working, suddenly the Singers fighting in the False Desolation had an entity capable of supplying them with power in the form of Voidlight. Melishi, a Bondsmith not bonded to the Sibling, was able to use his Bondsmith abilities to imprison Ba-Ado-Mishram (or as I posit a single aspect of the tripartite being) and the consequence of this imprisonment and Melishi's use of his Bondsmith power to affect Connection was a severing of Connection and Identity of all of the Singers connected to BAM. The Portion of the Sibling able to Connect and Distribute Voidlight, namely the Portion that was imprisoned by Melishi, was (until the start of the True Desolation at least) residing on Braize. The Everstorm is of Odium, the lightning it produces is Red (an Odious color) and for it to have the assumed ability to replenish Voidlight something else needs to be going on. I think this is best explained by the reasoned surmise that Odium, Connected to the portion of BAM that is able to supply Voidlight, is using that Connection to supply Voidlight through his storm. This is just like how Dalinar uses his Connection to the Stormfather to Supply Stormlight to his Radiants. The other two portions of the Sibling, the God of Wind and the God of Spren, are the massive Stormstriders seen hiding in the Eye of the Highstorm. . Here are possible objections to this theory and rebuttals. In the Hessi's Mythica epigraph in CH106 of OB, BAM is described as the following: This clearly states that she was a Highprincess among the Enemy Forces and the commander during SOME of the Desolations. If the Sibling/BAM is a composite Entity of the original Spren Gods of the Singers, it would make sense that they would initially side with the Singers. Also, one of the Desolations where she was a commander would definitely be when she was supplying Voidlight and Connection to the Singers during the False Desolation. So covering the vague SOME only requires her to be a commander during 2 Desolations really, but I think it's probably likely that she was a Commander for the Singers up until the Construction of Urithiru, it seems to have as it's foundational design principle the idea of big battery to install, so I think it likely that one of the first Bondsmiths to Bond the Sibling/BAM also was instrumental in creating the tower, and in terms of Absolute chronology this would have to be before Nohadon, because it's impossible to Walk to Something that hasn't been built yet. How do we know that Cultivationlight is part of the Crem cycle? We don't, this is just surmise, but we do know that Crem is invested based on a couple of WoBs spoilered below: How do we know that Sja-Anat corrupted the Sibling and was the reason, some/all of the Sibling withdrew? We don't but we have seen Sja-Anat is able to corrupt massive spren (the Kholinar Oathgate Spren), and the Drawer 8-21: Second Emerald and Drawer 30-2: particularly small emeralds about Suspecting fellow Truthwatchers at the Tower and the confirmation that at least one Truthwatcher was voidbinding (saw the future) is pretty compelling circumstantial evidence that Sja-Anat was active at the tower. I'll add more of these as you all start testing the limits of this theory with your amazing wobbery and generally sharp analysis Here's the closing portion where I'm going to put this all together in a chronological sequence of events that I think does the best job of explaining the crap ton of dangling threads that we had at the end of Oathbringer. Prior to the shattering, during the time when the Singers were the predominant sapient species on Roshar (and possibly the Reshi Islands too), there were 3 distinct methods of Investiture distribution. The Investiture that would later become Stormlight was distributed by the Highstorm, the investiture that would later beomce Cultivationlight was distributed by water and the Crem cycle to make the inhospitable rocky planet capable of sustaining life, and the investiture that would later become Voidlight was distributed as innate investiture sink in the form of gemhearts. The gemhearts were most likely just a means by which the megafauna of Roshar could access and be affected by the other forms of Rosharan investiture. Due to the importance of all 3 systmes of investiture, the Singer's gods coalesced as Mega Spren, namely the God of Spren (cultivationlight), the God of Wind (stormlight) and the God of Stone (voidlight/gemhearts). (The Shin and Unkalaki likewise worship a God of Stone, heavily implying that that this entity is still existant). After the Human's came, they brought their new ideas about the local phenomena, and the Influence of Cultivation and Honor's Investing of Roshar caused the original singer gods of Spren and Wind to be displaced. The three primary gods of the Singer then became to the Singers a single Entity and the Sibling was born. The Sibling thus Formed, aided their worshippers in the Wars against the true Voidbringers, namely the Human immigrant's from Ashyn (this is the portion referred to in Hessi's Mythica were BAM was a commander for some of the Desolations). At some point during the Heraldic Epochs, after the Knights Radiants were formed, the new Order of Bondsmiths discovered they could bond the Spren that are Conduits for the 3 type of Investiture on Roshar, namely the Stormfather (the God of Wind had been displace), the Nightwatcher (the God of Spren had been displaced) and the God of Stone (who at this point was combined with the original God of Wind and the original God of Spren). The Tower City of Urithiru had to be created after the Sibling was bonded, because it's built around the central Gem column to provide power to it's internal subsystems, and most likely to provide cultivationlight to the crops, and I also think that prior to the withdrawl of the Sibling, Urithiru recieved direct power from the Highstorm (using the component God of Wind to key and transfer Stormlight investiture). This takes us up to the time of the Gem Archive, when only 1 Bondsmith had been active for a generation (Drawer 24-18: smokestone), meaning that the Sibling was unbonded when subsystems at Urithiru began to fail. Shotrly after this, an Elsecaller investigating the Sibling in the CR (Drawer 1-1: zircons 1-3) noted that, unlike some thought, the Sibling hadn't withdrawn with intent. This combined with worry about Urithiru's defenses failing (Drawer 3-11: garnet) and the alarmist note of the Truthwatcher suspecting his fellow Truthwatchers (Drawer 8-21: second emerald), heavily implies that Sja-Anat had infiltrated the Tower, and that at least one of the Components of the Sibling had been corrupted. The Singer's at the start of the False Desolation don't appear to have been supplied with Voidlight (Drawer 19-2: third topaz), and it is only stated explicitly that they are Recieving Voidlight from BAM (Drawer 30-20: Fourth emerald) after the Tower had been mostly abandoned and the Sibling had fully withdrawn (Drawer 29-29: ruby). The Details of Melishi's strike force combined with the fact that the Singers were obviously lobotomized after the False Desolation and only had their Identity and Connection restored with the Coming of the Everstorm for the True Desolation, shows that at least along some fronts Melishi's strike force was successful. The gem archive entries about imprisoning BAM in the Honor's Drop imply heavily that this was the means to do it, and I think it can be surmised that just the God of Stone portion (the one able to supply Voidlight and connect with the Singers) was imprisoned. But at least at the beginning of the Battle of Thaylen Fields, BAM was no longer imprisoned, because the Honor's Drop was empty. The evidence of a Giant Luminous Spren, and a Sleek Alien Spren striding through the Highstorm close to the eye of the Storm, is heavily suggestive that these are the Components of the Sibling/BAM that were not captured by Melishi's strikeforce, and further more their descriptions fit with them being the Singer's original Gods of Wind and Spren (because their descriptions somewhat parallel the features of the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher, the Spren that displaced them from their original roles). The fact that Gavilar had access to a fabrial capable of teleportation of gems to Braize and that he had spheres filled with Voidlight, suggests that the portion of BAM capable of supplying Voidlight was at some point released from her prison in the Honor's Drop and returned to Braise to wait rebirth at the start of the next Desolation. Odium's Everstorm though seemingly capable of replinishing Voidlight, does not of itself replinish voidlight, because Voidlight is not Odium's investiture, it's a native flavor of Investiture (that probably has a shardic analog, but unknown which). The Everstorm has red lightning bolts, voidspren are golden-yellow or red, Voidlight is being bridged by BAM through BAM's Connection to Odium, and then pushed out through the Everstorm. The bonding of the Sibling is likely going to require the de-corruption of the Singer God of Stone prior to a Bondsmith being able to bond the Sibling, but if the Sibling is really a tripartite being, this gives the Sibling Bondsmith some room to maneuver, becasue from the gem archive we have seen that Urithiru can partially function, so if necessary the Sibling's bondsmith could probably venture out of the Tower with one of the 3 if necessary. That's it for Now, I am sure there are some edits that I am going to make to this monster of a theory, but this took far longer to put together than I was planning on spending. I'll address any critiques of this theory probably this weekend, cuz unfortunately crafting Cosmere theories doesn't pay the bills. Pip, pip, and as Sherlock Holmes would say, the game is afoot. *All records from the Gem Archive, organized just chronologically by drawer-sub drawer number spoilered below*

Me and a friend were taking yesterday about the new fabrial that uses voidlight, and we came to the conclusion that it's metal might be chromium. If you noticed, in mistborn duralumin and aluminum don't seem to be exactly paired together - they seem to do things which are a bit different. Me and my friend came to the conclusion that maybe they both manipulate your Connection to Preservation. Duralumin increases it, while aluminum decreases it. We know that lerasium makes you Connected to Preservation, and that is what gives mistborn their powers. Now, this makes sense for duralumin, and it makes sense that you cannot use allomancy while burning aluminum, but why then does aluminum permanently remove the metal reserves inside of you? I theorise that this is because it makes you not a Mistborn for a moment, and that any metal that you swallow before becoming a Mistborn cannot be used. In other words, if Elend were to swallow pewter before swallowing the lerasium bead, he would not have been able to burn that pewter. A point in this theory's favour is that sometimes, feruchemical powers and allomantic powers align, and affect roughly the same thing. Duralumin's feruchemical power is Connection. So now, back to fabrials. What the fabrial seems to do is weaken the Connection between a radiant and his spren. This is why Syl could not manifest as a Blade, and why she remarked about feeling faded. Notice anything? This seems awfully similar to the effects of chromium, which is like aluminum but external, allowing a person to wipe someone else's metal reserves. From the epigraphs, we can assume that all allomantic metals affect fabrials in roughly the same way. This is why I think that the voidlight fabrial was connected to chromium. Now, how could the voidbringers specify radiants and their spren as the targets? I don't know. I assume it has to do with the spren trapped inside the gemstone. Now, what is the likely result of this? I think discovering that fabrials can also be affected by chromium will help Navani understand what chromium does, and that should open the door to understanding the entire quartet of aluminum, duralumin, chromium, and nicrosil, as well as help them understand Connection, and beginning their journey to cosmere awareness. Thoughts?

I’m just going to hug all of you now.

This is my favourite shard cast program, no jokes

When you read "Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are" and your mind automagically turns it into "Wasing the wanting to be another issing to be wasting the person of being"

Hehehe, Moash is absolutely one of my favourite characters in the Stormlight Archive

Yeah, they made a movie about her.

Great topic. When I read the title I said out loud hell yea I'm addicted to Stormlight Archives hahha. Tou bring up good points. Kaladin has been depending on storm light to solve alot of his problems when he fights he probably also use it in every day thing that he doesn't even realize

Ene, you know what you want better than I do, and I feel that it might not my place to say this. But, I think that it needs to be said. If you’re worried about being morally and spiritually clean, look to Christ. He has literally gone through exactly what you’ve gone through. He knows you and your progress perfectly, and perhaps most importantly, He knows that you, me, and everyone is far from perfect. If we have faith in the Atomement of Jesus Christ, and repent daily, it is to my belief and understanding that we will be given the divine grace of Jesus Christ. This means that it doesn’t matter how close we get to being perfect on this life, and instead focuses on our moving forward. No matter how morally clean we may be, the Atonement will suffice for us. I know you’re a good person Ene. And I know that Jesus knows that too. *asks*

Moash had been elevated to a verb. The proper phrasing is Moash Moash!

It is the difference between objective and subjective reality. In point of fact what R is doing seems more in line with a normal Lightweaver then a normal Truthwatcher. He is showing a potential future or maybe a "what could have been." I wonder if this is what shardic combat in the spiritual realm looks like. Basically a complex argument that involves both shards using willpower to attempt to create axioms that bind other shards in ways that their opponents can't bring themselves to acknowledge. Maybe Odium's bonds are basically an argument by Tanavast that "we are one" somthing Odium can't by his vary nature acknowledge. The thrill could easily destroy a nation or even cause an ecological collapse if the system supporting the war effort were delicate(as islands often are).

Prediction: Book 5 will end with the Shard Odium being passed from Rayse to Moash. He will be the new Odium.

I'm pretty sure the more hyphens an Unmade has, the more intelligence it has. Hence why Ba-Ado-Mishram is the 'highprincess' while Ashertmarn et al are all very basic.

I got a blessing before school, and even though I didn’t feel the Spirit, I hope that it helps...

I'd say Boromir's death was a redemption - his last moments are him realizing he was wrong, helping the hobbits, and accepting Aragorn . I actually think that's the only kind of redemption arc I would accept for Moash. He realizes what he could have been and sacrifices himself to hold off the enemy or something along those lines. If he is redeemed and survives... it would feel cheap. (unless it was done in a really brilliant way, which could totally happen)

Wow what Renarin did was so much like what And up until this point I really liked Moash as a character, I thought he was a cool villian. This was the first time I actually despised him. I mean I still think he's a great villian, but even him killing Elhokar didnt make me as angry and anxious as him trying to get Kaladin to kill himself. And wow I just realized Kaladin felt light and warmth coming from Renarin, just like Dalinar keeps feeling in his weird dreams! I have no idea what it could be, but I bet it's the same thing!

Made this a couple days ago but realized i probably couldn't put it in cremposting. Thank you so much for creating a meme page where RoW spoilers are fine!

One of my most enjoyable memories of Oathbringer's pre-release was the Meme thread on the OB spoiler board here on 17th Shard. I saw a new meme on one of the threads here already, so I figured, it is time. Here are three memes I'm going to start the thread with. I'm sure you all will make better ones as the chapters come out. I look forward to seeing them.

Crazy Theory: Gavilar was trying to take up the pieces of Honor and become a shard. Here's my reasoning: 1) We know that Gavilar had been receiving the same visions Dalinar received from the StormFather, so he knew Honor was dead. 2) He was on a first name basis with the Heralds and they worked together, so he could possibly have had more knowledge of the cosmere and shards. 3) What he says to Navani: What has he discovered the entrance to? Maybe Braize, maybe Shadesmar, who knows? But he may believe Honor's power is kept there and he himself can take up the mantle. Or... he just was on firemoss and is now obsessed with a palace storage room.

Long time lurker here, decided to make an account and introduce myself. I learned about the Cosmere in middle school and read Mistborn Era 1, which I liked but Stormlight intimidated me so I didn't read anything else in the series for a loooong time. I finally picked up Way of Kings a few months ago and fell instantly in love. I devoured the rest of the Cosmere over the summer, and re-read Stormlight again when I was finished (I might have a problem). Anyway, I'm looking forward to discussing, theorizing and generally screaming about Rhythm of War with you guys!

Does everybody have a water buffalo? There's no chance we can win on our own.

Well, if it has been used by someone else then my apologies, you can just PM me and I will remove it, otherwise, I don't have time to read all 4135 posts on this thread. I only use my personal favorites though, so it isn't like I am posting every single meme that crosses my vision.

To add to this, he genuinely respects Kaladin as one of the only good humans in the world. During his viewpoints he shows real regret at having betrayed Kaladin, and he considers him to be the exception to how corrupt humanity has become. This is why he doesn't fight Kaladin when they meet at Kholinar, despite being on opposite sides of a war on an active battlefield. I really think he genuinely thought he was doing right by Kaladin, he probably would have tried to convince him to join the voidbringers if he didn't already know Kaladin could never do that.

*Travels five years Into the future, and completely misses the last desolation*

No, no, it was said that the Radiant had been unable to heal her because it had been too long since the injury, not because it had become a part of her identity. They never would've said the identity thing, because they don't understand that mechanism in-universe. Which strongly implies that Progression cannot heal long term injuries. And later on, we see that when panicked, Rysn instinctively tries to stand up, demonstrating that she has not internalized her injury; her instincts are still behaving as if she could walk. Which is really the smoking gun for me that Progression is not identity-based. Also- there was that moment where Lift used Progression to make seeds grow into vines instantly. Stormlight healing can't do that.

I don't know why but the Moash and Kaladin scenes in the OB chapter and this one have been the most emotionally powerful for me, in pretty much any cosmere book. So much overlapped impacts. Moash basically trying to get Kal to commit suicide is the darkest thing I can think of. Mostly because Brandon made it executed it as a gift not an attack, which is arguably darker. I was worried how Brandon was going to pull off the explanation of Moash spiraling so fast and not make the relationship with Kal going forward seem superficial theme wise. But after OB and this I think Moash and Kal are going to create some of the most emotionally powerful, resonate scenes in the series. The level of hopeless despair the OB scene and this scene invoke is literally insane.

Hey! I just watched that.

That's a sharp outfit, Chan. Careful, you could puncture the hull of an empire-class Fire Nation battle ship, leaving thousands to drown at sea. Because... it's so sharp.

The bleeding colors are artistic license and do not mean anything. Whelan confirmed this.

I have a joke about the 4th ideal of the Windrunners but I'm not ready to say the words.

I don't think there has been such a list made... Seeing how we already have the thread started, we might just as well make one. To start (and keep in mind I don't remember all of it): General: - The author of Ars Arcana is Khriss, of White Sand - The maps are obtained by Nazh, Khriss' coworker/errand boy, who's from Threnody, the world of Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell - Number 16, any time it shows up, is a reference to Adonalsium having split into 16 Shards Elantris: - The Lake where the Hoed are being dissolved is Devotion's Shardpool - "Domi" people curse comes from Aon Omi, "Omi" meaning "Love" - reference to Shard Devotion? - Svarkiss may or may not be related to Odium - Hoid appears helping Sarene with her luggage near the end of the story - In 10th Anniversary edition there is a moment when Hoid discusses not being able to become an Elantrian with a Skaze Emperor's Soul: - The Imperial Fool who helped Shai steal the Moon Sceptre is Hoid - Shai descries objects having Cognitive and Spiritual "soul"; something we later see in WoR and M: SH - Ralkaest (the unForgeable metal) is aluminium, which is also allomantically intert The Final Empire: - Kelsier's informant is Hoid - The Pits of Hathsin are Ruin's Shardpool - When Vin burns iron for the first time, she wonders whether she brought it to life and notes that it would be an amazingly powerful skill - reference to Warbreaker's Awakening Well of Ascension: - Hoid is leading Terris refugees Elend and Spook encounter (half of this list will be Hoidspotting, huh?) - The Well itself is Preservation's Shardpool Hero of Ages: - Hoid is the informant Vin avoids because of Kelsier's ghost cluing her in not to approach him - Adonalsium and three parts of a person (Physical, Cognitive, Spiritual) are mentioned in the epigraphs Alloy of Law: - The marriage the Vanishers attack is apparently between a pair of Worldhoppers - Hoid is a beggar chatting with the couple during said wedding - Miles' last words are apparently not-accidentally similar to death rattles from Stormlight Archive Shadows of Self: - The brochure in the middle of the book contains a story of a woman stumbling upon what's apparently a Shardpool or other perpendicularity; she meets a Southern Scadrian/Iyatil-folk/Parshendi worldhopper - Hoid is Wax's carriage driver - The Red Rip (it was mentioned either there or in Bands) in the skies is the same astral feature as Taln's Scar in SA. Bands of Mourning: - The beggar who gives Wax the coppermind is Hoid - The woman questioning Wax about allomantic physics at lady Kelesina's ball is Khriss - The brochure has an advert of "K and N" (Khriss and Nazh) searching for talking metal tools for unknown purpose - The brochure has a story in which we can apparently see Nazh shooting Threnodite Shades (from Shadows...) from some sort of a gun - The red-eyed "Fakeless" Immortal of Set may be a Voidbringer or a Svarkiss (or both!). At any rate, it's not from Scadrial. Secret History: - Leras has a knife that's apparently important and may be supernatural - He calls 16 a "sacred number" - He refers to Senna, who/what may be of some importance in Dragonsteel - Drifter is Hoid - Leras knows Hoid under the name Cephandrius - The land Kelsier is in is Scadrial's equivalent of Roshar's Shadesmar; the Expanse of the Vapours from WoK's Shadesmar map - Kelsier meets with Khriss and Nazh, who are there to observe Preservation's death; they explain existence of different planets - Nazh leaves his silver knife with Kelsier; Kel loses it, and it may or may not be important; Nazh's knife is silver, which is anti-Shade on Threnody - Ire is from Sel; they mention guarding their borders from Threnodite Shades - The leader of Ire curses by Devotion - Ati refers to a world called Vax, which apparently looks similar to "Scadesmar" - Leras notes that Kelsier "tried to rescue a boatful of people from a fire by sinking the boat and then claiming 'at least they didn't burn to death'", which is exactly what Shallan does with Wind's Pleasure in WoR Warbreaker: - The storyteller Lightsong invites at one of the parties is Hoid - Nightblood was based on a Shardblade (not sure if this should be here, as it's a Wob) - There's a Terriswoman nurse somewhere in there Sixth of the Dusk: - A lot of evidence points to the Ones Above being Sci-fi era Scadrians Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell: - There has been speculation that the "real" White Fox was Hoid - The Evil is offworld, and may be connected to Odium in some way - Threnody is named in memorial of something, likely of Cosmeric importance Way of the Kings: - Wit is Hoid - The three travellers in Purelake interlude are Galladon, Demoux and Baon from Elantris, Mistborn and White Sand respectively; they are after Hoid and belong to 17th Shard - The fish in Purelake have magic qualities reminescent of Aviars from Sixth of the Dusk - Purelake seems to enable worldhopping, as this is where the trio searches for Hoid - The letter from the epigraphs in Part 2 is from Hoid, likely addressed to Frost, who is a dragon and resides on another planet - The letter mentions Ati, Ruin's holder - Hoid used to use name Topaz - The colorful map of Shadesmar also points to other "expanses" of the Cognitive realm, including Expanse of Vibrance (possibly Nalthis) and Expanse of the Vapours (confirmed to be Scadrial) - Hoid is running away from someone; likely Rayse or 17th Shard - The white "sun" visible in Shadesmar (and in Shallan's chapter headers) is the Spiritual Realm Words of Radiance: - Zahel is Vasher from Warbreaker - Nazh is the ardent Rock chases away from Bridge Four; he was sketching bridgemen tattoos - Iyatil's mask suggests she has some connection to Southern Scadrians; she's a worldhopper - Mraize is a worldhopper; his collection includes a rare flower from Nalthis, a lock of hair (possibly Royal Locks, also from Nalthis), a vial of sand from Taldain (White Sand), a silver knife from Threnody and an unusual gem (could be from yet-unpublished Aether of Night) among others - At least one of the lakes on top of Horneater Peaks is a perpendicularity and might be Shardpool; the "god" Rock saw there was Hoid arriving on Roshar - The Purelake plague mentioned by the end is the common cold brought to Roshar by the three worldhoppers from WoK - Taln's Scar in the skies is the same thing as Red Rip from Mistborn 1.5 - The sword Nin gives to Szeth by the end is Nightblood, of Warbreaker - Iriali faith (from Ym's interlude) bears startling resemblance to cosmeric history - The letter of Part 4 is an answer to that from WoK, and possibly from Frost - The letter mentions Hoid having a gem that "died"; going by publicly available chapters of Liar of Partinel, the stone was an aether - The Ars Arcanum compares Rosharan lightweaving to Yolenian art of the same name - There's a man called Felt both here (on Dalinar's staff) and back in one of Mistborn books - YMMV whether this means something - Many graphics visible in beginnings of chapters are annotated by Nazh, including pages from Shallan's notebook, which he has apparently fished out from the bottom of the sea Here, all I can recall/dig out of Coppermind. Let me know if I missed something. edit: fixed a few mistakes, added a few points