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So, here's a thing for the convenience of everyone involved because I can already tell this is going to be a pain: It's also here, if you prefer a spreadsheet format. I don't know about anyone else but I certainly expect to use this ~every 3 minutes for most of this game so I figured I might as well share.

This cycle, and indeed this game, is over. Please stand by whilst Rae and I get the conclusion ready to post.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to withdraw - a text from work just came through and the next few weeks are gonna be more coarse and rough and irritating than Anakin's line about sand. I was looking forward to this game too :/ But I don't think I can juggle my commitments and GM and play a game at the same time, however low-commitment I intend to be. So I guess Kamemesir will return some other game. Cheers and have fun:

There's been a fair amount of discussion about steel compounding on these forums as one of the most exciting forms of Twinborn. The general consensus (with support from Word of Brandon: wob.coppermind.net/events/93-odysseycon-2016/#e2695 ) is that a steel compounder could feasibly run at incredible speeds while being magically protected from many of the consequences for an extended period of time. So I decided to do the math on what it would look like for a steel compounder running at 10x normal speed (well within what Bleeder does in Shadows of Self, I think). Here's what I found: Imagine our Steelborn throwing a ball. Now, an ordinary person throwing a ball has their arm swing through a distance (call it 1 m) in a certain time and releases with a certain final velocity (call it 25 m/s for fairly ordinary humans - thats ~50 mph). Now, our Steelborn is moving 10x as fast, which I take to mean he takes 1/10 the time from start of throw to release. That implies he has 10x the release velocity (also what we expected). But he accelerated a ball to 10x the speed in 1/10 of the time of an ordinary human and acceleration = velocity/time (for constant acceleration of an object from rest, a decent approximation here), which means the Steelborn's ball has 100x the acceleration. F = ma, so either the ball had 1/100th of the mass, or our Steelborn applied 100x the force. Option 1: Changing strength Let's assume the ball's mass didn't change for now. Our Steelborn needs to apply 100x the force, which means our Steelborn needs to be 100x as strong as normal. It gets better. Our Steelborn has 100x the strength of an ordinary man and can run 10x as fast. Power = Force x Velocity, which means our Steelborn has 1000x the power output. If an ordinary human can output 300 Watts, our Steelborn can output 300 kW, or 400 horsepower. Of course, with 100x the strength, our Steelborn will need his tendons, ligaments, bones, etc. reinforced by 100x to avoid his enhanced strength tearing himself apart (see WoB above). Human skin normally has about 20MPa tensile strength, so a 100x increase puts us close to Kevlar's 3000 MPa tensile strength. His maneuverability with A-steel remains unaffected, though. There's no reason to assume his Steelpushes have enhanced strength, so he can't Push a coin any faster or Push himself off a skyscraper any quicker. (F = ma.) But the truth is, he hardly needs this. With 10x throwing speed, an ordinary 25 m/s pitch turns into a 250 m/s projectile (9mm pistol rounds travel at ~300 m/s, or ~1000 fps). With 20 bullets a throw and assuming he can get off 5 throws/sec, that means he is putting out the equivalent of 100 pistol rounds/second. (World War II machine guns fired ~10 rounds/sec.) He'd have to be aware of the recoil, though: he's not any heavier to absorb it! It's not all upside, though. Even with 10x the top speed and 100x the strength, our Steelborn is limited by the friction between his feet and the ground, which hasn't changed. Unless he can push off of something, he can't accelerate (or turn) at anything more than about 10 m/s^2. If he's moving at 10x an ordinary run speed of 4 m/s, and remembering that turning radius = velocity^2/acceleration on turns, we have turning radius = (40 m/s)^2/10 m/s^2 = 16 m. No hurtling around tables for him. Actually, I don't think he would run at all. With 100x the strength, each footfall would propel our Steelborn high into the air. I suspect he would move like astronauts walking on the moon instead. Option 2: Changing mass + gravity But all that doesn't match up with what Bleeder does in Shadows of Self. So instead of assuming that our Steelborn gets stronger, let's assume that our Steelborn's mass decreases to 1/100th of normal instead. 50 kg -> 0.5 kg. Additionally, the acceleration due to gravity must increase by 100x to leave the total force due to gravity unchanged to prevent him from bouncing high into the air with each step. Now, our Steelborn has the same strength and the same amount of traction (since he has the same weight as before) but 1/100th of the mass. F = ma, so that gives him 100x the acceleration. Hairpin turns are no problem: running at 40 m/s he has the same turning radius as an ordinary human running at 4 m/s (since turning radius = velocity^2/acceleration = 4^2/10 = (4x10)^2/(10x100)). Jumping is fine too: our Steelborn has 10x the takeoff velocity but 100x the downward acceleration. Jumping height = v^2/2g, so the effects cancel, leaving him able to **jump the same height as an ordinary human**. However, air time = 2*v/g, so he has 1/10th the air time, which is again what we expect. His maneuverability with A-steel is enhanced too. There's no reason to assume his Pushes have changed strength, so F = ma says with 1/100th the mass, his Pushes give him 100x the acceleration. The increased gravitational acceleration won't cause problems because the total gravitational force is unchanged. Additionally, he no longer needs Kevlar skin, as he hasn't gotten any stronger. Since his body has so little mass, his insane accelerations will result in the same forces on him as usual. He won't black out either. Clearly, the mass reduction and gravity enhancement must extend to the Steelborn's clothes, guns, coins, etc. Otherwise, carrying a 1 kg pistol when he himself has a mass of only 0.5 kg would reduce his maneuverability to 1/3 of expected, but we see Bleeder think nothing of Steelrunning with pistols. The problems begin, however, when we consider him throwing something. What happens when coins leave his hands and return to normal mass? I see three scenarios: 1. Coins return to normal mass but velocity unchanged. They increase in both momentum (p = m*v) and energy (KE = 1/2m*v^2). This gives him tremendous firepower: he can throw coins at 10x ordinary speed and 10x the rate, exactly as described above. His pistol rounds travel at 10x speed too: muzzle velocity = sqrt(2*d*a), so since 1/100th the mass -> 100x the acceleration by F = ma, bullets have 10x the muzzle velocity. To top it off, he's immune to bullets: incoming bullets are reduced to 1/100th of their mass upon hitting him. 2. Coins are reduced to 1/100th speed. This satisfies Conservation of Momentum: p = m*v, so if mass increases by 100x to return to normal, velocity decreases to 1/100th. Since KE = 1/2m*v^2, their energy decreases to 1/100th (losing energy is more permissible than gaining it at least!). His coins are reduced from 250 m/s on leaving his hand to 2.5 m/s - 1/10th of an ordinary throw speed. This affects bullets too: they have 10x the muzzle velocity initially, but as soon as they stop touching him, they are reduced to 1/100th of the speed. The net effect is to reduce a 300 m/s pistol bullet to a 30 m/s one. Our Steelborn's problems get even worse when we consider bullets striking him: they are suddenly accelerated to 100x their velocity, satisfying Conservation of Momentum, but resulting in a 100x increase in bullet energy since KE = 1/2m*v^2. 3. Coins are reduced to 1/10th speed. This satisfies Conservation of Energy: KE = 1/2m*v^2, so a 100x increase in mass is balanced by 1/10 velocity, but doesn't satisfy Conservation of Momentum. His throwing speed is unaffected, since coins leave his hands 10x faster than normal, but then are reduced to 1/10 speed, or normal throwing velocity. The same applies to pistol bullets. Bullets striking him are reduced to 1/100th mass but have 10x the velocity, leaving their energy again unchanged. Of all the options, I think 3 fits the best. Our Steelborn cannot throw or shoot at crazy speeds with F-steel - though he can still put out huge numbers of bullets and Push them to deadly speeds with the help of A-steel. Now that we have established how he (roughly) interacts with objects, much of his power depends on how far this field extends. Does it affect a bike he rides? A car he drives? A train? I suspect the explanation invokes his Connection to an object and the object's own Identity, but I see no evidence for how. The TL;DR The best match with Shadows of Self is that you can't change your strength with F-steel: you obtain crazy speeds by reducing mass and increasing gravity while permitting your muscles to operate at higher speeds. (This pairs well with F-Iron: both manipulate mass.) Anything you throw is reduced in speed and increased in mass when it leaves your hands. This gives enhanced maneuverability and speed without crazy firepower. Thoughts?

Al Funcoot straightened his cloak. A thin trickle of blood was running down his left arm where a stray dagger had caught him in the conflict—Caliex’s last attempt to reach “Mint” before being forcibly restrained had instead connected with his arm, and fencer though he was, he had not the agility to avoid the quick strike. The new crew leader had fortunately taken Caliex away before more harm could be done, but Funcoot saw in her eyes, and in the eyes of several around him, suspicion for Mint nonetheless. It was all but confirmed that she was an Obligator now, so he hung back, joining in the chorus of general condemnation, while darting his eyes side to side when he judged nobody would be looking. Grim nods passed between him and the others. They would do what needed to be done, when the time came. Just before the crew leader’s scheduled arrival, they would spring the trap. But not yet. They let Mint be bound, knowing her freedom was imminent, and their positions strengthened as Rae took her away. Varen was taken down by Ash, and still Funcoot waited. The blood continued to trickle, more slowly as the wound clotted, yet still running in a steady stream down his bare flesh. Olaf clenched his fist, allowing the red liquid to seep under his dirtied fingernails and spread around his hand. A bloodstained hand: that seemed accurate enough. He had murdered, or was complicit in the murder, of most of these men. Yet what did this pathetic group of skaa hope to achieve? The Lord Ruler’s might could not be tossed aside by a dozen, however committed. Power resided not in desperate groups of peasantry with no coherent plan, but with those who possessed the adequate means to seize it for themselves, or those who sought the already powerful. Funcoot had been forced to do the latter, bending his back to the obligators and helping them infiltrate this crew. It pained him, but he did it. He had experience acting noble—he had, after all, been one before—but nobility of character, he surmised, had long since been abandoned. It was a different nobility he sought, and it was not one the thieving crew would grant him. Those with the Lord Ruler’s favour, however? They would. And so his decision was easy. A new position, and he would begin magnifying his own strength without needing to appease those now above him. The false documents had been almost child’s play, especially given House Ffnord’s lack of rigour in monitoring family connections. But getting an Obligator to accept them was always going to be the challenging part; until now. He had three standing by, eager to help him assume the identity he had painstakingly crafted. An identity far more in line with his true self than the buffoonish Funcoot had ever been. An arsonist. A politicker. And above all, a broken idealist, an expert in using the systems he had once decried to gain ever more control for himself. Count Olaf of House Ffnord.

Everything we know about RoW... Here are a few things you didn't mention: Navani was the most enjoyable for him to write recently (Nov. 26) There is a scene where Dalinar is being flown to a different part of the world by non-Kaladin Windrunners Jasnah has a couple viewpoints - (transcribed below) Rysn will not be a main character, but will have an interlude Group 2 climax is in Part 4, Group 3 climax is near the epilogue, and Group 1 climax is in the normal spot Scientist that was in Warbreaker will be in RoW, talking about some things he got wrong There wasn't room for Rock's narrative that would have been in his novella in RoW Brandon chose Bulgarian cover art that depicts Shallan and Adolin in Shadesmar The author of in-world Rhythm of War is not human There is a character moment in RoW that Brandon had planned from from the beginning as one of the two or three pillar scenes of the entire series, a moment like which we will not get again until SA 7 or 8

A knock sounded on the door of the room. Somewhat suprised, an individual (whom the all-knowing Ashbringer had forgotten to give a name) opened the door to find a neatly wrapped package on the floor outside, with an old-fashioned scroll sitting on top. “Don’t worry, everyone. It’s just a Luthadel delivery order,” the man said. As far as he could see there wasn’t any way of telling who it was for, so he picked up the note, and started to read. “Dear Recipient, Enclosed in this package is your replacement order from Mount Faleast Smithing and Shipping Co.. We are very sorry that you were not completely satisfied with our last item and found it to be ineffective for your needs. Your complaint was succesfully processed by the Canton of Finance and your replacement order is at no additional cost to you. If you have any further inquiries, please send a note to the Canton of Finance and our team will do our best to resolve your complaint as soon as possible. We hope that this item meets our 100% Customer Satisfaction Guaruntee, and that you will continue to use Mount Faleast Smithing and Shipping Co. for all your blacksmithing needs. Sincerely, The Mount Faleast Smithing and Shipping Co. Team” The man looked around at the assembled people. These were no blacksmiths, they were skaa rebels and theives. He doubted that he could even find a decent carpenter in this crowd. Then again, a decent number of the gathering were secretly obligator spies, bent on ruining the plot at hand. The man, like the rest, had never found any. The man looked in the box, searching for any hidden messages or weapons. There... weren’t any. Just the simple iron tool. “Alright,” he said, “who ordered the hammer?”

Your formatting went wrong. I believe Arraenae means to do this: [color=red]Vote[/color] Outside of the code box, of course. Just replace red with green to unvote.

Found this gem on tumblr:

This is my formal transition from lurker, to lurker with an account. And I'm pretty excited about it.

When your first swearword was "Storms!" Like really, I do not swear at all, so this one was my first.

I hope you don't think I am fighting you or such, because that was not my intention. So personally I interpret this differently. For myself, a political favor involves a political benefit in some manner. A president pardoning someone, or helping another get elected (as I type this I realize it could be construed as in reference to the real world, and just want to clarify it is not). Viewing it in that lense, for myself, what Jasnah did was not a political favor. What political advantage would it give either of them? (as you yourself pointed out). Stopping those criminals won't make Vorinism not treat Taravangian poorly. It won't make the lighteyes listen to him. However, Jasnah, as she understands Taravangian at the time sees him as: “Besides,” Jasnah said, “I believe you might have made Taravangian laugh. He seems haunted by something lately.” “You don’t find him dull, then?” Shallan asked, curious. She herself didn’t think the king dull or a fool, but she’d thought someone as intelligent and learned as Jasnah might not have patience for a man like him. “Taravangian is a wonderful man,” Jasnah said, “and worth a hundred self-proclaimed experts on courtly ways. He reminds me of my uncle Dalinar. Earnest, sincere, concerned.” “The lighteyes here say he’s weak,” Shallan said. “Because he panders to so many other monarchs, because he fears war, because he doesn’t have a Shardblade.” Jasnah didn’t reply, though she looked disturbed. “Brightness?” Shallan prodded, walking to her own seat and arranging her charcoals. “In ancient days,” Jasnah said, “a man who brought peace to his kingdom was considered to be of great worth. Now that same man would be derided as a coward.” She shook her head. “It has been centuries coming, this change. It should terrify us. We could do with more men like Taravangian, and I shall require you to never call him dull again, not even in passing.” “Yes, Brightness,” Shallan said, bowing her head. Jasnah does not see Taravangian as a political ally. She sees him as good man, advocating for peace and truly loving his people. She sees someone she respects and cares for being troubled and hurt by his people being harmed and he being powerless to stop it. To Jasnah, Taravangian has not only done her a good turn, but has risked himself to do it with no expectation of recompense. The least she can do is try to alleviate some of the things causing him upset: those men are off the street. The people of this city are that much safer. The issue that Taravangian has been so worried about has been solved, and no more theatergoers will fall to those thugs. How many lives did I just save? I find it interesting that what classically is the Socratic Method (or at least how I see Jasnah teaches Shallan) in such a negative light. But I shall continue on that with your further comment below That certainly is an interesting way to interpret things. Though I would say the fact that Jasnah at no point prevented Shallan from running to the authorities, nor attempted to force her own view on Shallan speaks to otherwise. The Socratic Method (if you already know what it is, this is not meant to educate you but define it in order to show how it applies to this situation) is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking. and to draw out ideas and underlying principles. The point of such a method, is to cause the individual being taught to come to their own conclusions via their own reasoning, rather than just parroting back what they are told. Thereby if Shallan ends up having the same thoughts as Jasnah, it is because Shallan has using her own reasoning and logic, come to the same conclusions. Jasnah never tells Shallan what she is allowed to think. All Jasnah asks, is that Shallan comes to those thoughts through critical thinking and research. By the end of the exercise, Shallan thinks Jasnah is wrong. Jasnah thinks Shallan is wrong. But states at the end of the day, what matters is that Shallan went through the work, and really thought on it, without someone else telling her what to think. The true goal of a scholar and a scientist. The pursuit of knowledge. Finally, Jasnah nodded, then returned to her research. “You have nothing to say?” Shallan said. “I just accused you of murder.” “No,” Jasnah said, “murder is a legal definition. You said I killed unethically.” “You think I’m wrong, I assume?” “You are,” Jasnah said. “But I accept that you believe what you are saying and have put rational thought behind it. I have looked over your notes, and I believe you understand the various philosophies. In some cases, I think that you were quite insightful in your interpretation of them. The lesson was instructive.” She opened her book. “Then that’s it?” “Of course not,” Jasnah said. “We will study philosophy further in the future; for now, I’m satisfied that you have established a solid foundation in the topic.” “But I still decided you were wrong. I still think there’s an absolute Truth out there.” “Yes,” Jasnah said, “and it took you two weeks of struggling to come to that conclusion.” Jasnah looked up, meeting Shallan’s eyes. “It wasn’t easy, was it?” “No.” “And you still wonder, don’t you?” “Yes.” “That is enough.” Here is a quote where Jasnah goes in depth on everything I just said. What was it that Jasnah wanted her to do with the information? Once again, she felt a stab of guilt. Jasnah was taking great pains to instruct her in scholarship, and she was going to reward the woman by stealing her most valuable possession and leaving a broken replacement. It made Shallan feel sick. She had expected study beneath Jasnah to involve meaningless memorization and busywork, accompanied by chastisement for not being smart enough. That was how her tutors had approached her instruction. Jasnah was different. She gave Shallan a topic and the freedom to pursue it as she wished. Jasnah offered encouragement and speculation, but nearly all of their conversations turned to topics like the true nature of scholarship, the purpose of studying, the beauty of knowledge and its application. Jasnah Kholin truly loved learning, and she wanted others to as well. Behind the stern gaze, intense eyes, and rarely smiling lips, Jasnah Kholin truly believed in what she was doing. One point of order here, is though yes Jasnah was the architect of the scenario by choosing to walk down that street, that at the same time does not mean she created that situation. The murderers at no time were under any compulsion from Jasnah to: 1. follow her 2. bring lethal weapons 3. surround her 4. attack her All those actions were entirely their own. Now I already explained why I believe she went to the ally. To stop people from being killed, and to cause Taravangian to no longer be pained at his people being hurt and being unable to stop it. But to continue with your line of reasoning, she could not have pressured the city guard to reform. It is not her city. she would need to declare that the Alethi nation are moving to take over the city in order to take such immediate form of reform. She could not just come in and tell the city guard it has to reform. The captain is connected to a powerful lighteyes. So powerful the King himself cannot do anything, so why should we believe a foreign dignitary could? Jasnah could advocate for change and reform legally, and through the proper channels, but that would take months if not years. During which more people would die, and she would be unable to pursue her research in trying to stop the end of the world. True she could soulcast food and water, but Kharbranth is not an impoverished nation. It uses the funds it makes from the Palananeum to fund its free health care and presumably other social works. That still would not change that the captain of the guard is protected, and that that street is not being patrolled and that people are being killed that walk it. So to me, none of that would be more effective given the circumstances than what Jasnah did. To me it couldn't be to test the soulcaster, because Shallan has observed Jasnah doing so on multiple occasions. She soulcast the boulder, she soulcast wine to a paperweight, she soulcast words onto paper, she soulcast paper to fire when she was done with it. Jasnah has already extensively practiced with her soulcasting and has shown such a level of precision that it surprised Shallan ( writing on the paper via soulcasting). As to testing Shallan's loyalty? As mentioned in a prior post, even a 1% chance is still a chance, so I readily admit Jasnah could be doing this. Jasnah could be the ultimate big bad evil at the end of the stormlight, and everything we have ever heard and read from Jasnah was all part of a master plot to mislead us all along till the great reveal. Totally possible. Just for myself, it is not plausible. We (albeit rare) do get Jasnah's PoVs. We see and here how she genuinely cares for Shallan. How Jasnah genuinely admonishes herself for seemingly failing with her teaching of Shallan (during Oathbringer as Shallan regresses). Her concern for Shallan, and genuinely wanting to try and be a better teacher to help Shallan. All from her own mind. Now I suppose Jasnah is making up these thoughts in preparation for some entity that can read minds, but personally I find that far fetched, So for myself, I do not think the entire occurrence was done to manipulate Shallan into doing what Jasnah wants. That is assuming she planned for that moment to occur at that moment and set up Shallan all along. Which as I said above certainly is possible, but for myself, based on everything else we are privileged to know, I believe it to be improbable and implausible. Jasnah is dressed beautifully, because we know that is a character trait of hers. Always presenting herself put together and in control. It was how she was trained and raised. She teaches this to Shallan on the ship when they leave Kharbranth, and Shallan having learned that lesson, uses it to save her own life after the ship wreck, and save the caravaners lives later on. Yep, I would agree those quotes portray a sense of history and a degree of Post Traumatic Stress disorder. Jasnah has been hurt in the past. However..... I believe it is a stretch given all the other information we have to say that is the sole reason she has done so, and she arranged the entire scenario to play out exactly as it did. Despite Jasnah's powers she lacks one crucial one: mind control. At no point did she coerce or force those individual to again: 1. follow her 2. bring lethal weapons 3. surround her 4. attack her But if that is the case, how did she rewrite it by having those men follow her, bring lethal weapons, surround her, and attack her? Presenting this as you have removes the agency of the murderers. They are not robots that she programmed to play out a role so she can come across sympathetic. This was not a stage play to rewrite how the story plays out where she gets the desirable result. Those men still had to act. They still had to choose. Jasnah traveling to that alley could have just as easily passed through with nothing happening at all. But those men chose to watch that alley. Shallan confirmed it was not the men from the bar earlier. So these individuals staked out the area, and were prepared with weapons. Their intentions were clear. The only variable in this case is who walked down that alley. Had Jasnah not, someone else would have, and they would have died. In some countries on Earth as well as some countries on Roshar, yes it is. There is the "battered wife" defense, which states that even if the individual is not in a clear and current present threat and kills their abuser, given the physical and psychological abuse the individual has ungone, a court will rule in favor of the individual. In Alethkar, an individual that has been wronged by another (Tanalan's son), can challenge the injuring party to a duel as recompense. And duels to the death are very much on the table. But finally, as you are going for the moral angle, this is not violence as vengeance for the abuse. These are not the same individuals that abused her. She is not getting vengeance against her abusers. She is however preventing the abuse from occurring to other individuals. As per WoB, Taravangian knew that Jasnah was a radiant already. If his intention was to recruit her, he would be at the invitation/overture stage, not the investigation stage. Happy to read it and glad you are enjoying the discussion. Not intending to end the discussion here, but I would highly recommend you read my older thread "Jasnah More than Meets the Eye". That thread delves deeper into Jasnah's character, motivations, and actions. I recommend the thread because I made the point of getting every quote that mentions Jasnah across all three books (WoK, WoR, O) and included those quotes in the post. The intent was that if people disagree, all the quotes are available and readily apparent to reference and discuss, instead of going on memory and colored personal recollection. The quotes can be objectively read by both parties, and then from a shared source provide different interpretations. I hope you do consider reading it, and I wish you well. https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/84071-jasnah-more-than-meets-the-eye/#comment-830297

So this was more about the Shard, but it was still an odd dream. One of the first dreams I’ve actually remembered in a while. I was standing outside a building called “The Longest Thread Office.” I went inside and @xinoehp512 was sitting behind a desk. He directed me to these double doors and opened them, and @AonEne greeted me, before pushing me down a rainbow. I reached the bottom and @Emi threw a stick at me and told me we had to fight the mimes. I asked her where the mimes were coming from and she told me that “The Last Post Wins Office” was sending them. We kept fighting for a while, and then the scene changed (do dreams have scenes?) and I was standing in an office in a line. @Truthless of Shinovar and @Nathrangkingwere standing next to me, and I asked them what was happening, but they just kept on replying with “*wins*”. The doors opened, and @Lunamor and @R J entered the office. They told us that the Mistborn movie was short on actors so we were the replacements. I was assigned the role of an inquisitor, and was given some pieces of paper to tape over my eyes, as my spikes. Then R J turned to me and said “you’re a salad! You can’t be an inquisitor!”, so I threw some lettuce at him, which somehow proved that I could be an inquisitor. Then the dream shifted into other, non-shard, non-cosmere stuff. (to everyone who was mentioned, you all looked like regular humans except your heads were replaced with your profile pictures)

I'm not entirely certain how you feel about this. Can you be a little more definitive?

This is all a lot of conjecture; they're theories, but guesses shouldn't be used to make claims about the text. There isn't any indication that Jasnah's secret ulterior purpose is to turn Shallan into a killer; in fact, she's determined to have Shallan develop her own moral code. Jasnah doesn't want Shallan to be a follower, she wants Shallan to think for herself, even if that means she disagrees with Jasnah. She doesn't need Shallan to be certain in her convictions, she's already convicted. That aspect of how she teaches Shallan is made very clear during Way of Kings. I don't see any evidence of Jasnah's churning stomach; either killing these four men, or in suggesting to kill the listeners. I feel that Jasnah being secretly torn up about it makes it more palatable for you, but that's not in the text. This seems like a reach to me. Confidence is not enjoyment, and she dresses and acts the way she always acts up until the killing. She is not putting anything "on" for this. On the contrary: Jasnah never says she's there to make a better Kharbranth. Her example she gave was small-scale - not eradicating poverty and crime in Kharbranth, but saving the next barmaid who took a wrong turn. She never claims to want to make Kharbranth a better place. In fact, she's also very clear in WoK that she can't stay for very long in Kharbranth and regrets the lack of time she has for longer, bigger projects. It's why she limits herself to short-term actions. One of those short-term actions is killing the murderers directly instead of trying to systemically root out crime. Jasnah never tries to exonerate herself. She is direct and straightforward. She wanted those specific men dead, and she went to go do that without any fuss at all. We don't know what Jasnah's past is, and even Shallan is making leaps, trying to guess at it based solely on Jasnah's emotion in this scene. Pain, yes, but also anger. Those words from Hoid were for Shallan; Jasnah is in an entirely different life scenario, and as far as we know, those words don't apply to Jasnah's situation.

I've been thinking about the effects of aluminum (for my alleyverse Character) and I was wondering; If a Knight Radiant or someone bonded to a dead shardblade was also an aluminum gnat/mistborn, and they flared Aluminum, what would happen? I believe that if Aluminum is flared enough, It cleanses the spiritweb. Spren attach themselves to the Radiants spirited when they bond, and deadeyes act similarly. So, would the allomancer Shardbearer/Radiant lose their bond?

I have recently given my eldest brother my copy of WoKs. He began reading it. He reads fairly quickly and so he is already mostly through the book. So far the only things he has told me are that there are too many characters, it would have been better to publish the one book as several volumes, and that nothing was happening. Still he is reading and like me he is found of understatement. I will continue to give his impressions but I am worried. I hope the rest of you help me get him initiated into our cult as quickly as possible.

I realized rereading the Emperor's Soul that Soulstamping basically has an unlimited reserve of Investiture to use, as long as the change in the Stamped object is believable. That got me thinking about how Soulstamping would effect Investiture-infused objects. For example, if you Soulstamped a gem to say it was left out in a Highstorm recently, would it suddenly be filled with Stormlight? What if you drew out the light and then restamped it? Lifeless could be mass-produced as you could write a Stamp that went through the preservation and Awakening process. Any of the crystal structures remaining in the Pits could be stamped to have produced one last bead of Atium right before the world was reshaped. A cistern of water on Dayside could be Stamped to have been filled, emptied, then Stamped again. Finally, any sword that could have been a potential candidate for Nightblood could have been stamped to believe that it was the one that was filled with 10,000 breaths! Overall this raises the possibility of overstepping many of the limitations of nearly all the magic systems in the Cosmere, as long as they are practiced on Sel. Edit: I said soulcasting a bunch, that's fixed

Truthfully, I’m not really sure why I created an account, because all I ever do is lurk... oh well.

30% humidity is low for me. Come visit the south! It's 9 pm now, still 84°F/28°C and 58% humidity. It was much hotter/humid-er early in the day. We routinely get 90+°F and 80-90% humidity...

I have never felt smarter than when I get a question right on Jeopardy that none of the contestants can figure out.

It's 1 AM and I couldn't think of any funny RP, but hey. It's the thought that counts. Good game, everyone.

You make a fair point, but I'm trying to think large scale here. Soulcasting takes a great deal of training and large amounts of stormlight. We don't yet know how much [relatively] stormlight it takes to use Division. Think about it though-- which would you rather have? A bunch of soldiers with soulcasters [which the ardentia would just love, I'm sure] who will require lots and lots of training to be able to transform things, and who will rapidly deplete the fabrial's gemstones, cracking them and rendering them unusable, not to mention that they will eventually be transformed into essences themselves by prolonged usage. Or a bunch of soldiers armed with fabrials that could, theoretically, allow them to burn/decay/dissolve whatever they touched [if it isn't too invested], and that wouldn't require them to have learn to manipulate the cognitive realm? I won't go so far as to say it isn't possible that they could figure out how to make new Soulcasters, since we are talking about rapid advances in fabrial technology. I just think, personally, that Division fabrials would be the equivalent of suddenly introducing hand grenades to a medieval battlefield. Time will tell.

Words of Radiance is my absolute favorite book of all time, cosmere and beyond. Followed very closely by Warbreaker.

YKYASFW you think Sanderson when you hear Inquisitor from Star Wars Rebels.

@ConfusedCow let's just agree to disagree.

I agree. And then I want space pirate Kelsier in Era 4. He already has a reason for an eyepatch.

Another day, another body. Varen’s dead, impaled by a spike through the gut. Still, at least they haven't gotten all of us yet. Maybe this change in leadership has been good for you lot, eh? Mint, looks like you're the new suspicion of today, huh. And a more credible one too! They say they found a metal spike in your bag, like the ones the murderers are using. Still, we've got to do this the civilized way. Off to the basement with you! Here's a bucket, so you and Caliex can, uh, do your necessary business a little more cleanly. Maybe I should have figured that out yesterday, but oh well. Better dirty than dead. I'm thinking that maybe we should rob House Orielle again. Seemed like an easy enough mark last time. Or maybe we should go for the Hastings? Everybody, if you want to have a say, write it down in plain purple which House you want to rob. Mint was lynched and was an Obligator! Striker was killed and was a Skaa! Vote Count: Mint (5): Vapor, Eternum, Mystic, Fifth, Striker Mystic (3): Ashbringer, Truthwatcher, Mint Player list

So the chapter where Jasnah kills those men (36 The Lesson) and the following chapter (37 Sides) where Kaladin and Lirin confront Roshone and Kaladin learns Lirin has been lying about the spheres are deliberately juxtaposed. On the Shattered Plains, Kaladin hangs strung up before the highstorm in a delirious state and we the reader are offered these two chapters about morality and ethics to chew on while we await his fate. The two chapters are structured in a similar manner, like Brandon was teaching a class. They begin in a safe place, Hesina's Kitchen, the Bath House. They travel towards a tense confrontation. Then the ethics of the parent figure are revealed to be complicated and dubious. Shallan and Kaladin each experience this as a sort of growing moment, a progress toward maturity. Following the confrontation there is a period of reflection between the adult and child, and the chapter is concluded by the child making a choice in imitation of the parent. Shallan choses to steal the soulcaster. Kaladin chooses to become a surgeon and go by his full name. The Juxtaposition is not meant to be entirely deconstructed. As hoid says, the storytellers job is to raise questions not answer them. Yet, these experiences are meant to be compared by the reader, even if only subconciously. What are we to make of this comparison? In many ways, Lirin's methods are more deceitful, his motives less pure. Yet, he does not kill (not even later when he could) and his acts inspire Kaladin to be a better person. Jasnah's righteous anger and dazzling magic are stunning. Yet, in the end her actions seem more like theater. Jasnah's casual priviledge and wealth seem almost nauseating besides Lirin's peaceful, desperate struggle for a handful of spheres. What a mix of character traits?! Lirin seems weak, duplicitous and genuine, Jasnah dazzling and horrific. Most telling, however, might be that Shallan despite all Jasnah's wisdom is left confused and alone. Brandon is teaching us the ideals of the Knight's Radiant in the Way of Kings. When Kaladin turns away from the honor chasm, Brandon explains life before death. Then Kaladin teaches the bridgeman to carry the bridge, putting himself the 'strongest' literally before the 'weakest'. These two chapters are meant to teach journey before destination.

Memes! you know what to do. I'll start us off!

Tor.com preview chapters have begun: https://www.tor.com/series/rhythm-of-war-brandon-sanderson/ We're starting to accrue bits and pieces of Stormlight Four. Here's what we've got so far, aside from the . (Fair warning, the earlier it is, the less continuity editing it went through.) March 30th, 2019. Planet ComicCon. A chapter about Lirin. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/386/#e12628 May 15th, 2019. Bonn, Germany. A rewritten version of the Lirin chapter. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/388/#e12676 July 20th, 2019. Video reading at SDCC. A scene with Venli. https://www.tor.com/2019/07/20/sdcc-brandon-sanderson-stormlight-archive-4-excerpt/ August 31st, 2019. DragonCon. Part of the prologue, from Navani's viewpoint. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/394/#e12852 October 15th, 2019. ICON. More of the prologue. https://clyp.it/lidyohcy November 26, 2019. Newsletter exclusive fiction. Stormlight Four excerpt. November 26, 2019. Starsight Release Party. Eshonai flashback, very rough in continuity. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/402/#e13303 December 10, 2019. Amazon released the publisher's summary. (This is the out-of-universe summary, not the back-cover in-universe text.) February 15, 2020. LTUE, Provo, Utah. Lift interlude. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/412-ltue-2020/#e13628 July 7, 2020. Newsletter exclusive fiction. Syl interlude. July 23, 2020. Kaladin scenes from chapters 7 and 8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lRDdxUy5iE July 2020. Amazon released an updated publisher's summary. August 6, 2020. Newsletter exclusive fiction. Dawnshard prologue. Brandon's also been regularly releasing lengthy update posts. I'll summarize the goodies from each of them: January 2nd, 2019. Discussing outlining in broad terms. https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/absjnj/stormlight_book_four_update_1/ February 6th, 2019. Update on outline progress. Tentative title revealed: The Rhythm of War. https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/anttqr/stormlight_book_four_update_2/ April 16th, 2019. Introduces the concept of plot "Arcs," which focus on relatively isolated groups of characters. https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/bdzor2/stormlight_book_four_update_3/ June 20th, 2019. Part One (of five) written. https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/c30ijp/stormlight_book_four_update_4/ August 26th, 2019. Arc Two written. Graphic of which Arc fits in with which Part. (https://i.imgur.com/tcE4p4Q.png). Flashbacks may switch from Eshonai to Venli. https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/cvvs75/stormlight_book_4_update_5/ November 6, 2019. Purely a writing speed update, no juicy bits. https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/du30gp/stormlight_book_four_update_6/ January 10, 2020. Book's done. Brandon might take a break from revisions to write a Rysn novella dealing with Aimia. https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/emxhgo/stormlight_book_four_update_7/ And then, we've got various miscellaneous tidbits. January 5th, 2018. One-year gap between Book Three and Book Four. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/315-general-reddit-2018/#e8979 September 19th, 2019. Wit will have a cooler epilogue than usual. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/360-legion-release-party/#e10802 August 28th, 2019. 90% confidence on Rhythm of War title. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/379-general-reddit-2019/#e12847 September 9, 2019. Kaladin and Jasnah will share a scene: https://twitter.com/BrandSanderson/status/1171220837103362049 September 26, 2019. Flashbacks will be a mix of Venli and Eshonai. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/380/#e12961 and https://wob.coppermind.net/events/380/#e12962 October 15, 2019. We'll learn more about how fabrials work. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/395/#e13408 October 18, 2019. We will get pictures of all Radiant spren except Bondsmiths. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/397/#e13108 and https://wob.coppermind.net/events/398/#e13249 October 18, 2019. Potentially more Azure. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/397/#e13137 October 26, 2019. Two more fashion pieces for the art. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/398/#e13250 January 10, 2020. Rysn interlude hasn't been written yet. Content will depend on whether or not her novella gets written. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e13578 January 25, 2020. During a YouTube Livestream, a first look at a Taln art piece in the style of OB's four Heralds. It may go in Stormlight Four, it may not. https://imgur.com/a/Dl7G3PA January 25, 2020. Shallan's sketchbook pages will be Radiant spren, both Physical Realm and Shadesmar appearances. Nazh will have a second page of glyphs. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/411/#e13869 April 1, 2020. Venli/Eshonai are the flashback characters, but there's a third character who have a viewpoint focus in the present storyline. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/415/#e13633 June 12, 2020. The "pillar of the outline" scene is one of two or three through the entire series. The next one won't be until Book 7 or 8. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/408/#e13813 June 16, 2020. Rysn has a "very different sort of interlude" that references but does not spoil the planned Dawnshard novella. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/430/#e13976 June 16, 2020. We will meet a new Lightweaver named Stargyle. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/430/#e13985 July 28, 2020. Part 1 is plotted like a climax of a book, relating to the events that occurred in the intervening year. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e14086 I will endeavor to keep this up to date as new information or additional excerpts come out. If there’s something new, or anything important I’ve missed, please feel free to ping me.

Should Jasnah Killed the 4 men? She sort the men out and killed all 4 when 1 was only needed to be killed. But any defenceless woman could have been in Jasnah position (by accident) and been beaten, robbed and killed by those men Jasnah killed.

Basically. It also explains why she had no trouble running even though her legs were moving way faster then the fastest human athlete.

Gotcha. The problem with Stone Shamans is that if they can see who has Blades, they can narrow down Elims easily, or at least who Szeth and Kaladin are. I think they can hold Honorblades, but I doubt they would ever start with one. I’d have to decide if they could use their powers though. Maybe Nightblood could scan as and get passed around like an Honorblade

He had half the limbs, but he got to keep the opposable thumbs. ... who wants to bet I can read through all of this? I've done worse rabbit holes. ... okay, I probably haven't, but I need a goal for this quarantine summer that I can pile with all my other misplaced goals try and achieve.

On the first one, that doesn't necessarily imply the Cryptics are drawn the same way as angerspren to anger - it could just be that Cryptics are interested in lies and so consciously gravitate toward them. (I'm trying to communicate the difference between the actions of a sentient spren and the responses of non-sentient spren). The second doesn't imply that the spren draw the angerspren or painspren - only that when humans draw them, the Cognitive side in that area is therefore dangerous. Spren don't draw the angerspren, but they do have to avoid them to remain unharmed.

Welcome! What's your favorite book?

Yes, the honorspren mention that Cryptics are attracted to lies spoken by other sapient spren. It is also mentioned that though emotion spren prefer human emotions & congregate in & around populated areas, they can also be attracted by spren emotions.

You can soulcast things into water or water into things. You can use adhesion to pull or push on water. You can use abrasion to walk through water like it is air. You might be able to use tension or cohesion to walk across water or at least get it to hold shape temporarily. You can use division to preform electrolysis and boil water with illumination. You can also create large clumps of algae in water using progression...

Actually the way I read Szeth's chapter of Oathbringer where they are hunting the escaped criminals at the pure lake is that they DID want them to think through everything for themselves. The other proto/squire Skybreakers just looked at the task on the surface, and went off to kill the escaped criminals. Szeth "passed"/"won" the challenge because he thought about it enough to realize that the lord in charge of the jailer was the true criminal here. Yes, that's still following the law/code, but it is thinking for himself the implications of the situation and drawing his own conclusions about who is at fault, rather than just assuming the escaped criminals should be punished by death and that's the end of it.

I just ordered Elantris, The Emperor's Soul, Arcanum Unbound, Skyward, Starsight, and Mistborn Secret History. When this order comes in, I will not sleep for a very long time.

That depends on your perspective. If you were to check out white supremacist forums, one of their primary beliefs is that they are a people under seige, they feel aggrieved and threatened by the larger culture. They see themselves as the ordinary, downtrodden people of the world. A lot of them even believe that there is a deliberate white genocide happening in the world right now. Yes, they're wrong. Yes, they're even crazy. But they are a whole community with a shared perspective. I can easily see some struggling young racist taking those oaths because he believes he's standing up for a people on the brink of destruction.

Dr. Gears absently pulled a piece of C4 out of his pocket and tossed it at the spren, still taking notes on the battle.

I'm excited for Szeth with both Nightblood and a Shardblade dueling Nale with his two blades, while Kaladin and Moash have a battle and Shallan has a Soulcasting battle with Jasnah over the Ghostbloods. This will be the best way to end SA5

Personally, I enjoyed Lightsong's chapters the most. I love his character and can kind of relate to him myself. Simply the way he handles the things are amazing. Vivenna was the hardest to read for me. The naivety of her sometimes made me cringe. Vasher was awesome but he didn't have the touch Lightsong had.

Used well we could have a very interesting Navani vs Venli parallel examining the emotions and beliefs that motivate both of them. Also you could do some great dramatic irony with one of them knowing something that the other one really wants to.

This is getting further away from the "main character" topic, but I think it would be helpful to have a thread where we compile all the info we have on the groupings. Finding all relating WoBs and unresolved plot points to this can be confusing, so having it in one place would be nice. I think that we have enough information on this now that we can figure a few things out with a lot of certainty. It's up:

I'd put that at more than 80% for me. He was also asked which character was the most enjoyable to write, and he answered that it was this other main character. This matches this WoB very well.

I’d spoiler these for length, but I’m not sure I can in this format, sorry.