Leaderboard

We've all taken jabs at trying to figure out what the Sibling may be about. The Community's Take General consensus is that there's three Shards on Roshar, and three Bondsmiths, so if the Stormfather, the Nightwatcher, and the Sibling are the three Bondsmith spren (which they are), then the Stormfather corresponds to Honor (which he does), the Nightwatcher to Cultivation (which "she" does), and the Sibling either corresponds to Odium, or is a mix in between Honor and Cultivation. For obvious reasons, it wouldn't make sense for the Sibling to be associated with Odium and still be a part of Surgebinding, so we tend to lean towards the "mix between Honor and Cultivation" more. Another general thing we tend to believe about the Sibling is that they are tied to Urithiru in some way, and may power even power the city. And the last well believed fact about the Sibling is that they are intricately tied to Stone. I know Calderis has a theory on why the Nightwatcher might be stone instead, but that's his to discuss. I'm gonna try and offer a different take on some of these points, and provide additional context to others. Whose magic is Surgebinding? The question asks it all. There's some fuzziness with what happened on Ashyn, but from what we know, the specific powerset of Radiant Surgebinding was first seen in the Honorblades. This implies that the exact specifics, at least, were first defined by Honor. If you look at the Heralds, we have 5 Male Heralds and 5 Female Heralds - a near perfect divide, with all the Male Heralds bunched up around what seems to be the Honor-half of the chart, whereas the Female Heralds bunched up around the Cultivation-half. Then we have spren copying Honorblades. This fact alone makes things very fuzzy. On one side, the spren are... essentially on a spectrum of Honor and Cultivation, with some spren having more Honor and others having more Cultivation. Yet others, like the Stormfather and Nightwatcher, are almost guaranteed to be nearly a 100% one or the other. But the pattern breaks a little if you try and match the spren to the Heralds. By association, a.) Windrunners, Skybreakers, Willshapers, Stonewards and Bondsmiths should be closer to Honor, whereas b.) Dustbringers, Edgedancers, Truthwatchers, Lightweavers and Elsecallers should lean towards Cultivation. And this works, until you look at the Bondsmiths. The Nightwatcher, who should practically be all Cultivation, is a Bondsmith spren, meaning that in Surgebinding, Cultivation is technically more present than Honor. This is despite Brandon telling us on atleast one occasion that the original Knights Radiants were focused more on Honor and his spren (which, depending on how you read it, could and couldn't conflict with Cultivation's presence in the magic). There's a third way of dividing the system too. You could theoretically say that Surgebinding is of both Shards because a.) All Radiants speak Oaths, which come from Honor, and b.) All Radiants have to grow over a total of five Oaths, which evokes the presence of Cultivation I'm going to put forth the idea that there is a third element here, but let's hold these two in mind, for now. When in doubt, stare at the Surgebinding Chart. When most people think of what the Surgebinding Chart tells us, they tend to think that all it tells us is that there are 10 orders, 10 Surges, and that each order gets 2 Surges, and that each Surge is shared between two orders, in a cyclic pattern. Usually, we tend to think that all the extra connections don't matter, and that they're there just for fluff. But, @Master_Moridinfound something interesting. The extra connections start making somewhat more sense once you pull in the Soulcasting Essences. Here's the full graph, and because not all of you are maniacs who have it by heart, I've gone forth and labeled it too: (it is definitely interesting that the whole thing looks like a gemstone) Smoke, for example, is connected to Fire, Wind, and Oil. Stone connects to metal, crystal (both come from the ground), water (crem), and flesh/meat/sinew (don't ask). They don't all immediately fall in place, because we think there's more weight to these connections in a metaphorical or philosophical sense, and there are also some thematic Order connections that we're wondering about. The Actual Theory However, an interesting thing happens when we zoom in on the Bondsmiths. Usually, when we think of the Bondsmiths, we think that they have two surges (Adhesion and Tension), and are adjacent to Windrunners (by Adhesion), and Stonewards (by Tension). Which is fine, except in the full chart, Bondsmiths don't have two, but three adjacent Orders: The Stormfather tells Dalinar that his is the power of Connection, so I can see why "Sinew" or "Flesh/Meat" could be associated with his order. But the interesting thing is the three (yep, three) essences they connect to - Wind, Stone, and Pulp/Wood/Plant Matter. I could sit here and establish a line of reasoning from the Essences to the three Bondsmith spren, but it's pretty simple from here on out. The Eila Stele mentions three Gods, of Wind, Spren and Stone. The Wind can pretty easily be attributed to the Stormfather, both because wind, and because his relation to Honorspren and the Windrunners. The Nightwatcher, by the virtue of color green, her home-base of the Valley and connection to Cultivation as "her heir", and indirectly through an excerpt from Rhythm of War, can associate with the Truthwatchers, the essence of Pulp/Wood/Plant Matter, and the "God of spren" from the Eila Stele. This leaves the Sibling, and Stone. So yes, I'm establishing a harder line of reasoning for why the Sibling should associate with Stone. But far more importantly, this establishes the Sibling and the Nightwatcher as being to the Stonewards and Truthwatchers what the Stormfather is to the Windrunners. And for more importantly, this can tell us a little bit more about the Sibling. Earlier, I established two components in Radiant Surgebinding: Oaths from Honor, and Growth from Cultivation. Which works, until you consider that Radiance actually has three elements - the third is that all Radiants are also completely dependent on Stormlight, which is responsible for the literal radiance in Radiance. And even before the death of Honor, the Stormfather is disproportionally more important than any other spren to Surgebinding, as he is the source of all Stormlight. So my theory: All three Bondsmith-spren are intricately tied to Radiance itself. a.) The Stormfather provides Stormlight, representing Honor's Power in Surgebinding b.) The Nightwatcher should be tied to Growth, representing Cultivation's association with Growth in Surgebinding c.) The Sibling should be the spren closely tied to Oaths themselves, representing Honor's association with Oaths in Surgebinding And this works on multiple levels. See, Stone being associated with the very concept of Oaths makes perfect sense - Stone is hard, and it weathers Storms but it doesn't break. An Oath, on a world where Honor resides, is this... abstract thing that must never be broken, and must weather all adversity. Perhaps this is also where the Oathstone of Truthless comes from culturally, and may have ties to Shin veneration of Stone. Another potential way this works is if you look at Stonewards and their attributes - Dependable and Resourceful. It also works if you look at Taln, who was the only one of the Heralds by Aharietam to have never bent his Oath and let the Singers pass. One thing that this implies is that out of the three Bondsmith, both the Stormfather and the Sibling are of Honor, and the Nightwatcher is of Cultivation. Another thing this implies is the reason why the Sibling may have gone to sleep, at least from a narrative perspective. We have two things we know about this: Oaths are about perception and belief - a Knight Radiant and their spren must believe in them and they mean what the KR and spren believe they should. From the Gem archive, we have at least one excerpt which says that the Knights Radiant may have been questioning their own worthiness (perhaps soon after Honor "raved" at them), and that this might be tied to something happening to the Sibling. The Stormfather mentions that "you" (which I read as the humans) "have hurt them enough" What I'm trying to get at, here, is that if the Sibling is... somehow intricately tied to the Oaths and the keeping of Oaths (Stone), then it makes complete sense that the mass breaking of Oaths at the Recreance was not pleasant for them. This means that as Radiants start speaking Oaths, the Sibling may start re-awakening. And if the Sibling is similarly tied to Urithiru, then the Sibling's re-awakening may be intricately tied to the re-awakening of Urithiru. This may be what the blob for RoW may be alluding to. In conclusion, here's the structure I'm implying: I want to dig into what I think this implies for the magic of Roshar in general here (including Voidbinding), but this is already too long, so for now this is it.

I don’t know who made this, but it’s gold and they deserve the world

LG64: Aftermath - #WhiteHouseWeirdness Straw was killed! He was the Rogue Smedry! The game is over! Congratulations to the Librarians for taking back control of the White House and rooting out all the other factions. Final Player List Experience - Shard Librarian Oculator and Transporter Straw - Straw Rogue Smedry Kidpen - Arthur Smedry Librarian Criminal and Paper-Tosser A Joe in the Bush - Porona Candemic Librarian Jail-breaker Coda - ? Librarian Oculator Striker - Striker Librarian Therapist Kynedath - Bartholomew Prescot Librarian Trouble Magnet Elandera - Rainier Librarian Criminal with Madness Lenses Zillah - ? Librarian Gossiper xinoehp512 - ? Librarian Criminal and Anonymous Contact Ironfire - Liability Crystal Knight Gossiper with an Airplane Spoon Sart - ? Librarian Silimatic Engineer Elkanah - Karen Crystal Knight Silimatic Engineer Fifth Scholar - Sergey Karjakin, Russian ambassador and secret adviser to the Secretary of Defense Librarian Transporter The God King - The God King Librarian Curator Shqueeves - ? Librarian Anonymous Contact Doc Links Master Spreadsheet Spec/Dead Doc Crystal Knights Rogue Smedry

Calling this a guide to the Cosmere is more than misleading. At best it is a theory, though in reality it is just a statement of opinion.

Book Four Ending Prediction: Shallan and Stick resolve their differences and work together. Stick ends up killing Odium in this epic standoff: ”Give me your pain.” “I am a stick.” “Give me your pain!” “I am a stick.” “GIVE ME YOUR PAIN!” “I am a stick.” Then Odium implodes out of frustration. The end. But in terms of the cover, I definitely think it’s Shallan. It’s not how I imagine her, but I don’t think it suits any of the other major female characters.

@Dreamer recently posted this on an unrelated thread and it got me thinking. Why is it that any shard is considered to have "better" future sight then any other? Especially considering the different ways in which each shard's future sight seems to manifest. It is kind of like measuring intelligence via IQ. Intelligence does not manifest that simply. For example people with eidetic memories generally have a really hard time summarizing and neither skill has any bearing on social capabilities or abstract thinking. Similarly since future sight is probably accomplished differently by different shards they probably all have different strengths and weaknesses. Theorizing time. Let us start with what all shards can do. We know that simply by holding a lot of raw investiture you get massively expanded connection and processing power. As such I think that when it comes to predicting events that can be determined mathematically such as astronomical motions, weather patterns, or breeding cycles all shards are equally good. Basically in this case each shard is an almost infinite super computer with easy access to all the data needed to make a determination. However when we introduce individual humans into a model things get unpredictable pretty quickly. For this shards probably need to use the spiritual realm and when using it they probably make determinations based on their individual intents. In this each shard is different. Ambition. Ambition's intent is to work toward goals. As such she could probably see what people want and how they try and get there as well as the conditions under which her own goals could come to fruition. Problem is that most people don't make decisions based exclusively on what they want. What they fear, hate, and love are often more important factors. As such Ambition might have pretty good long term future sight with terrible mid to short range. That is she might be able to see the circumstances under which her goals are being realized but her "peripheral vision" sucks. To overcome her future sight all you really need to do is bring in some elements that make it look like she is wining and you can trap her pretty easily. Basically just play along and then slam her at the right moment(yeah she was a shard and that would be way more difficult then it sounds but if you are trying to outwit a shard then you are already taking some serious risks). As a side note I am willing to bet this is how Odium splintered her. We know that she damaged him during her fight but I think Odium let her get in a few good hits so that he could get her into position for a KO(this would be very like him). Dominion. We don't know much about him but Dominion's intent seems to have been to control things. As such he can probably see people who are controlling or easily controlled as well as the different effects that events have on each other. To him the future is probably most like the shattering window that Honor mentions which gives him decent mid range future sight. This person or change will likely cause a, b, or c eventfully after the short range randomness cancels out. A good way to outwit him might be to bring in some fairly random element(like another more emotionally inclined shard or just Hoid). Odium may have had an easier time splintering him because of the close proximity of Devotion who introduced more emotionally charged elements into their fighting. Devotion. We also don't know that much about Devotion but her intent seems to have been based on some kind of loyalty or even love. This indicates that her future sight could be much better when situations are fluid as people and events naturally move to where they feel most comfortable. To get around her you might need to introduce some kind of betrayal or treasonous behavior into the mix. Both behaviors tend to beget more of themselves because when you witness treasonous behavior you tend to get less trusting and Devotion might have a hard time anticipating this. By acting so unpredictably and aggressively Odium could have completely blindsided Devotion during his assault on Sel. The Dor. I see no reason Dor could not be used for future sight(it has been indicated that this has already been done). It seems possible that either or both shard's intents could be used. For example Wyrm probably knew about the possibility of Elantris being reestablished and tried to head them off but once events started getting more uncontrolled, emotional and random he lost any ideal of what was going on. If you use both on the other hand I don't think you get much future sight at all but rather a statement about the now kind of like how Sel is becoming sort of self aware. Endowment. Surprisingly little is known about the shard Endowment when you considering how long we have known her. From what we have learned of the vessel they seem to be a no nonsense sort but at the same time. Willingly to look at the good side of things. Her magic also increases the ability of people to see beauty. Returned also seem to return based on the optimistic hope of doing good rather then desire or strength of will. The possibility to create or see beauty now and at a latter date is quite central to her. As such I think Endowment has a good ability to see mid ranged futures. To defeat her simply motivate yourself based on the baser more destructive impulses. Thanks to her lack of opposition she probably has a very good ability to see the future and plan for more contingencies against mortals(same as any other shard). However both the manywar and her letter indicate that she underestimates how selfish and evil people can be. Ruin. Ruin has probably an unparalleled ability to predict the immediate future best scene through how atium works. Ruin's intent is basically to cause entropy in other words randomness in the immediate future. However Ruin is probably the easiest shard to blindside because as long as things are getting more random he can't actually see the overall pattern. This is how Preservation was able to put one over on him so many times. Preservation. Preservation remains the shard with one of the most interesting future sight portfolios that we have seen. He clearly has mastered the long game and deeply understands both the capabilities and limitations of his powers. However Vin was not able to anticipate actions while she held the power and Kelseir mostly used his own abilities as a former thief to predict events so the use of it to predict the immediate future appears to be limited. Blindsiding Preservation appears to be nearly impossible as the way he works his plans make it so that chance encounters or random events don't alter the outcome. For example the wars that consumed the entirety of Mistborn 3 did not matter one wit as long as the key players remained alive but how much of this was the vessel and how much was the shard seems difficult to say. To actually defeat Preservation at the future sight game I think your only option might be to just nuke the whole future. An asymmetric, random, and irrational attack on what is could probably break the stasis. Harmony. I think Harmony's future sight is actually underrated by a lot of people. Harmony's intent seems to be equilibrium. Saze wants things to be like the human body. Constantly changing on the micro scale yet contained within a structure that remains largely unchanged. Equilibrium is actually well understood by physical scientists particularly chemists and physicists. Both are introduced to the concept at the high school or undergraduate level(Simple harmonic motion and RICE tables). From his intent Harmony easily grasps both the "force" any occurrence has and the backlash against it. This means that any time a new variable is introduced Harmony can study it figure out what it will do and what the counteraction against it will be. This gives him a huge advantage on the immediate to mid range future sight predictions perhaps the best in the cosmere. To defeat him in this area you would probably have to introduce a large element he can't easily understand(I think this is what Trell is trying to do). Odium. Well known to be excellent at future sight Odium is the shard with the intent of hatred and the related emotions of fear and disgust. These emotions often do dominate a persons life although they can also fade over time. As such Odium is an impressive mid range predictor with some short range capabilities as well. Interestingly his actual relative strength at future sight might be overblown by the native Rosharans. While he clearly is a gifted strategic thinker Odium's track record has actually been rather poor of late. Collective hatred by one group for another makes them predictable even to humans. Hatred or fear from a single individual is dangerous to rely on although Odium has had more luck then might be expected with this. To defeat him "all" you have to do is find the people he is trying to corrupt and counter him with emotions that he is less experienced with (love, desire for growth, devotion to a set of ideals, loyalty to a cause or person). Cultivation. Cultivation is an interesting case. Her intent deals with how things grow and her future sight abilities seem to stem from there. This may have been how she out future sighted Odium during OB. She knew how Dalinar wanted to grow and change and what he could become if he did. Odium only really understood how Dalinar wanted to avoid the pain of the suffering he had caused. To put one past Cultivation you seem to need to not grow as a person but that makes you easily predictable for obvious reasons. This paradox might be the key to her success. You instead might have to allow some very emotional or random elements that she can't understand to dictate the planing or execution of any attempt to get around her. She also can through her intent see how one desires to grow and the steps that someone will take along that journey giving her perhaps the best all round future sight of any shard. Honor. Honor has personally claimed to be pretty bad at seeing the future. He is the shard of connection and bonds which do not immediately show any real aptitude for future sight prediction. However the visions that he shows Dalinar seem to imply some kind of conditions for victory. These may be connected to what a given individual would have to do to win(essentally he is trying to pull a Preservation). As such I think Honor actually might have some decent long distance future sight capabilities(although probably not at Preservation's level). Autonomy. Very little is known about this shard or her capabilities. She clearly has some future sight(all shards do) but we don't really know how it works. We also don't know much about her intent. I could see it manifesting as sort of the opposite of Honor IE these conditions make this situation impossible(which is why she hates outside shards so much) but we don't really know. Well that is all the shards(I hope). If anyone has any comments, disagreements or constructive criticism please post(even if it is just grammar or wording I would appreciate it as you will be making it easier for the next person who has to read the wall of text).

People tend to put way too much focus on this chart. Really, we should look at the orders themselves, instead of the chart they've been put on. "Some." For some orders, is pretty clear if their oaths are more Honor or Cultivation. Windrunners, Skybreakers, and Stonewards are very much Honor, and Edgedancers, Truthwatchers, and Lightweavers are very much Cultivation. Willshapers' focus on things like discovery makes them seem more Cultivation-like. Elsecallers' focus on logical consistency makes them seem more Honor-like. For Bondsmiths and Dustbringers, it's not really clear. Even if you don't get a clean division of the chart, that's okay, since Brandon has made it clear that it's just an in-world chart with some--but limited--relevance.

Ooh, very interesting ideas here. I really like your take on Ruin. One if the things that I'm more interested in is the orientation of the intent when it comes to self or others, and the impact of that on futuresight. So, Shards like Preservation are better at futuresight, because to best Preserve something, you need to see where and how external factors can break it. And that Preservation is long term - the whole point of keeping something as it is that you _don't_ want it to change, which gives Preservation such thorough futuresight capability. Autonomy is somewhat like Preservation - to keep something Autonomous, you need to see potential "blocking events" which constrict choice or freedom, so Autonomy, imho, should be _really_ good at Futuresight too. But then, how much is her intent also about freeing people from the oppression of others? Ruin isn't like that, to break something, you really don't need long term planning. You just need to look at what something is now, and figure out the cracks, and keep at them to break something. Dominion is in a similar boat to Ruin, for me. It is Conquest, and to defeat something and stand over it, you really just need to get through its defenses now, which is the exact same thing as Ruin, just with a different end-goal. It would be interesting to see what happens then. Establishing Dominion is one thing, but keeping something in control - I'm uncertain if that would require ling-term or short term futuresight. Endowment is a wildcard - we know so little about her. However, if you think about it, the way all the different Returned play into the narrative of Warbreaker, and are playing into the narrative of the Stormlight, points to a remarkable level of futuresight capability. Basically, how much does Endowment know, how far does Endowment see, before she chooses to Return someone? Did she Return Blushweaver having seen a future where Blushweaver would be murdered (without expending her divine breath) and that her murder would inspire _another_ of the Returned to give up their Divine Breath? Because if she did, then that's a pretty incredible domino futuresight. And this would have implications, when it comes to the The Five Scholars, who seem to have had a tremendous impact on the Cosmere. If she Returned them foreseeing their deaths, then you could argue that Shashara was Returned specifically to create Nightblood and then to die at Vasher's hands, and that the impact that had on Denth and Vasher and all the others was intentional and foreseen by Endowment. You could argue that she knew that Denth would die at Vasher's hands, and she really resurrected Denth not just because of what Denth could do himself, but because being who he was, how his life and eventual death would influence people around him was the actual purpose of his second life. If these were indeed intentional, then I would say that Endowment is so good because of her nature as this giver of potential, which naturally comes with the understanding of how this potential affects those endowed with it. So her futuresight is this intricate web of domino endowments, each event endowing others around it with a little bit of potential, and that going back and forth. That makes her scary.

Hm... last time I tried to pull this off I nearly died. What's life without a little risk?

I wanted the bonus points, so I drew Syl instead of legs.

YKYASW you copy and paste a shortish cosmere summary into a discord chat to prove that it is more complicated than Destiny.

It was mentioned on Reddit (don't remember if it was Brandon or Peter who said it) that they won't be releasing the cover super early this time around Whelan is super busy and may still be working on it.

Defy them (or order some earbuds)

I am certain it's Shallan. Too young looking to be Navani and Jasnah got the last cover.

No(te)! Do not break the trend! I lead this movement, I will set it write! Besides, all your puns are mechanical

Sure! It’s more a little rough, I had trouble dying everything how I wanted it to look Edit: Sorry they’re a bit sideways-ish

Shallan: Tell Jasnah about the Ghostbloods. Wit: He doesn't want to be trusted. He told Dalinar as much. Szeth: Obey Dalinar. People will eventually accept that even if he is really creepy, he's at least on their side. Renarin: Jasnah already trusts him, and he's got bridge 4 to intimidate anyone who disagrees.

That is the best take I've seen on the Sibling since Calderis & Blightsong's Melishi imprisoning Ba-Ado-Mishram at cost to not only the Parshendi but also his spren. I like the connections you make for the Sibling. Honorspren do make sense seen in this light, but aren't Cultivationspren closer to Cultivation than Truthwatcher spren? Then again the latter Order's symbol is green and in the shape of leaves. This is could possibly be a cultural thing among the spren like Brandon said

Nah, just call random people and say: "No mating!" Then hang up. Perfect strategy.

Because I thought the Best Cosmere Character Tournament is fun, I decided to set up a Best Cosmere Book Tournament. I included some but not all of the short stories so that I would have 16 competitors. I hope I did it right Here is the URL for it if you're interested https://challonge.com/zwqn0r3z

Sorry if I misspelled anything and not having direct quotes or page numbers as well as if this is discussed elsewhere. Listening to WoR and got am in the chapter monsters where Kaladin and crew are learning to ride horses. The lead groom made a comment about how horses were not well known long ago but the radiants had ryshadium. We know they bond in some way but are they more likely to bond a proto radiant is the bond similar to the nahel?

I don't know if can say with certainty that the Sibling does predate Surgebinding. Like we know that the Nightwatcher was created post-shattering, so it's not like they're fundamental beings that have always existed or anything like that. Perhaps... and I'm just spitballing here, and haven't thought this through in any level of detail- the Sibling was created when the Knights Radiant and the Oaths were established? Like they were created for the purpose of managing the Oath system? Or, wait, no, Urithiru was created before then, so that can't quite be what happened. Maybe they were created to run Urithiru, and then their power was expanded to include the Oaths once the Radiants were established?

Usually the game gives you the answer to all questions somewhere before the quiz. Also, well, umm you won't get to choose a club, Rean has special circumstances. You will get out of school. You spend some time doing stuff at the academy, and then you get to travel somewhere because Class VII is special and the plot advances. That would be the gameplay loop for this game in a nutshell.

Yeah. He based them on the idea of the fundamental forces, but isn't sure whether or not Transportation fits our definition of a fundamental force. That's not exactly full on support of the point you're making. And here's another WoB: Which tells us that the list of surges is at least partially based on how Rosharan scholars perceive things as working, rather than how they objectively work. And that other planets don't necessarily have the same list of surges, so that list shouldn't be considered a Cosmere-wide phenomenon. Like he's kind of being vague and hedging his bets in both the WoBs we've quoted. But he's definitely not saying that every magical effect everywhere can be understood through the framework of the surges. And in my opinion, it's a really bad and unhelpful framework with which to look at any magic system that isn't surgebinding or voidbinding.

I definitely agree with you on the music. It is SOOO good! I really like the more simplistic music of BotW, but I really enjoyed SS's soundtrack too. Zelda's Lullaby in that game was beautiful. I think the first time I saw that scene, I cried, it was so emotional. That might have mostly been context, but the music there was perfect.

That is the most unfathomable question I have ever heard. What is your dream car? Truth

I feel that this theory is kind of like how scientists tried to fit our solar system into a earth-centric design. It seemed to fit at first, but when they discovered more facts, they found that it didn't actually fit with them at all. The only reason they kept it for so long is that they had predispositions for earth being the center of everything.

I think this latest episode has caused me to lose my mind. I'm utterly ecstatic, but also filled with dread,

The questing party decided to hire a questing consultant.

Sounds like an established term to me. I've heard it plenty of times all over the place, including on WE. While I'm here, I didn't have a problem with the talking heads approach to the chapter itself. I thought there was bags of tension in the body language and the arguing. My problems were I was completely lost in the logic of it, and it R's increasingly (again) detestable position. All he has seen in the two books is the LC and the Ar imprison, torture and kill people, and use reprehensible methods to enforce their will based on some kind of body-shaming cult on the world and he thinks that's the ideology that is going to 'free' the N? He's just so misguided, and it seems so transparently wrong that I find it impossible to give him the benefit of the doubt as being 'grey'. (Sorry, I thought I was done ranting. Apparently not ).

Comments. (page 1) - This is one of the driest and hardest to get swept up in epigraphs I can remember. It feel overlong and, it seems such an obvious explanation of what is likely to happen in the chapter, because of the title that I wonder if the information could not be quite easily conveyed within the chapter. Like an epilogue or a prologue, I think of epigraphs being there to convey information that it is not possible to do in the main narrative. This doesn't seem to be the case here. (page 2) - "a bloodbath so quick he would’ve missed it had he not been watching carefully" - contradiction here. If it's a bloodbath, by definition, there is blood everywhere, literally bathing the surroundings. So, even if it happened in an instant, the remnants of the blood would still be visible as a sign of what had happened. So, there's no way it could escape his notice, which I think is the feeling of his thoughts. - "Why had they saved him?" - This line is very important, I think, and it's not part of the thoughts in the paragraph. I think it deserves to be on its own, which also allows a smoother transition into the next paragraph. (page 3) - "columns arched" - meh, IMO columns don't arch, they go straight up. The arching bit would be an arch, not a column. - "picked up one boot to see slabs" - but he can see the slabs around his boot, surely? What has picking up his boot got to do with seeing the slabs? Confused. (page 5) - "Your mind moves between the corridors of power, as ours do" - This is a nice line, but I don't quite follow the message. Are they indeed saying the R is like the Ar, thinks like them, has their kind of attitude to the world, and to power structures? It's an interesting thought, and I'd like it expanded upon just a bit, for clarity. - "The voice caught his attention" - But no, surely he's already looking at the that conversation. What brought his attention to it was the Ar pointing at it, so his attention is already caught when he hears the voice. He's still looking right at them in that moment, surely. (page 6) - "Instead, there were five Coalition leaders, talking" - Confused. Where is this? it was described before as only N and J talking. Are there in fact five in that group? And then the last sentence in this paragraph jumps to a different thought about R being protected. That should be a new paragraph surely? It feels really jumpy around here. - "You can help us with that" - how, I still don't see it. (page 8) - So, J has been replaced by one of the Ar. I'm just trying to get the point of this argument, since both N and 'J' are on the same side? Is it just to convince everyone else around them that 'J' is the real 'J', or is it to generate dissent? I'm not clear on the purpose of this conversation, and whether it's real or not. (page 10) - Wait, N doesn't know that this is not the real 'J'? How can that be, he was right there, was he not? - "They are all physically the perfection of their kind" - I don't see how this follows. It seems to be based on the assumption that the first one is the ideal form, but they have no way of knowing that. Just because all the El look the same doesn't automatically mean that is the ideal form surely. I don't see how that logic flows. - "the other leaders clambering over each other" - None of them has said a word, have they? this seems unlikely to me. (page 11) - "favoring only those who take part in the A" - confused by this. Some Sa are maji. But also, don't they hate all the imp maj, regardless of whether they are in the assembly or not? What different does it make them being in the assembly? They're still not Sa, and therefore not the ideal form. - "The one who had knifed his E" - More confusion. Wasn't it N who stabbed the Ef on the bridge into the wall? The wording implies it wasn't N. NO WAIT, this is R thinking that he himself agrees with N. But, has it been established that this is what R wants, to overthrow the Imp, the whole structure of the assembly?!!! I know he is dissatisfied, but I never got this level of revolution from him that I can remember. He must know that the only way they will be overthrown is if they are killed en masse, surely, or at least brutally put down, jailed, whatever. R is basically an anarchist. I've never thought this of him before. It seriously affects my view of him, not in a good way. I thought we were passed this, but I guess not. (page 12) - "He’d seen poor families on his world, when the maji were given money to throw away" - Too simplistic, IMO. It sounds from this line that he's going to into a big diatribe in his mind about the injustices of the way the maj operate, but it goes nowhere, just stops. This is not enough, I think, to justify a whole radical internal philosophy that overturns everything he has been taught and worked towards for the last several years(?). (page 13) - "the one we should emulate" - Eh?!! But this surely is a nonsense statement. The cult of F is about being a physical match for the IF, is it not? No Sa can match the form of a El. This statement must either be complete lunacy or utter heresy, isn't it? - "who didn’t hold him back in time" - Hmm, not sure I believe that they can just be incompetent when it suits the plot. - "was on him in an instant, knife drawn, stalking forward" - contradiction. If he is on R, he doesn't need to stalk forwards. 'on him' implies physically on him, so there is no distance between them. (page 14) - "to find a way out of this" - No, I'm confused again. We've just heard that R agrees with N's goals. What does he need to get out of? Surely he supports N, does he not? Okay, N is threatening him, but surely he needs to convince N that he supports N's position? But now he seems to be going along with what 'J' is advocating, that the Sa should emulate the El? I'm completely lost by the logic of what is going on. (page 15) - "this is yer chance" - I just don't understand R's position at all. How can he possibly believe that the LC's intentions are noble? I thought we had been through this in the last book, and that R had had a realisation that the LC were bad. I just don't get it. How dense must he be not to see that their methods are cruel and murderous? They tried to physically destroy the assembly and everyone in it. And yet, R's thoughts sort of implied that this is what he wants too, maybe not in that way, but the end result, which he must see can only come about through violence and death. And then he thinks the Sa will just give the power to the people and/or act completely fairly? I just don't think it's plausible after what he has seen. - "You and I, we shall confront the El" - Huh?! So N just changes his mind instantly. 'Oh, you were my enemy about half-an-hour ago: let's be allies? (page 16) - "Agreed, J noted" - So now J has just rolled over to accept N's position. What about the other elders here? They have bee almost completely absent from this discussion, and yet don't they have a say, do they not make a majority? I can't clearly recall their position, and I'm just so confused. - "though whether for the N" - No. No, no, no. He doesn't get to decide he wants to tears the N apart, decide that he supports the regime that imprisoned all of his friends at one time or another, and wants the assembly destroyed, and then, right at the end of the chapter, decide nah, maybe not. I just want to go home! Overall I had massive problems with this chapter. I bounced off it really hard. R's motivation is all over the place. I've got now sense of what he wants, and he seems completely inconsistent about it. Not in a doubtful, conflicted kind of way, but in a way that involves deciding one thing, the completely undermining it. I don't understand the debate between the two factions in the Sa leaders, and then without warning they seems to reach some sort of agreement that is unclear and I don't understand what happened. I found it really, really hard to invest in anything in this chapter, and I'm still totally unclear what R believe, what his position is and how he will act going forward. This chapter seems to have torn up and lot of his character development from previous appearances although, honestly, I can't remember how it turned out before. I know he wasn't satisfied, but he seems ready just to jump into the arms of a murderous rebel who wants to destroy everything that R admits he is missing right at the end of the chapter, effectively invalidating all the soul-searching and decisions he made during the chapter. I'm kind of dreading R's next POV now, because I have no clue what is going on with him.

Dalinar is bonded to the Stormfather, and the Stormfather is the current holder/caretaker/shadow of what remains of the Honor shard. I assume these moments of warmth/light are Dalinar's dreaming mind/soul drawing close to the power of the Honor shard and experiencing the spiritual realm and its energy and connections in various ways. The spiritual realm is weird and vague and doesn't seem to strictly obey the limitations of space or time. Nohadon at the end of the OB dream babbles in a seemingly unrelated aside about the nature of Physical/Cognitive/Spiritual realms and the Spiritual representing a "perfect you", I think this line was intended to make us think that Spiritual shenanigans were occuring. 1) I personally think Dalinar is communicating with the shadow of Nohadon himself in this dream that he initially mistakes for one of the pre-recorded visions he usually experiences. Specifically I think Nohadon's cognitive shadow never fully passed on after his physical death and still lingers on tied to Honor's power. Dalinar has spend so much time reading the in universe Way of Kings and trying to live by its actions that he has formed a special connection with Nohadon's shadow. Dalinar's soul is metaphorically extremely "cracked" at this point in the story, and those cracks also allow Nohadon to more directly communicate with him than would normally be possible. If you've read Mistborn: Secret History a similar thing occurred there (SPOILERS) The "we killed you" also ties into my Nohadon theory. It's useful to rewind the story a bit and notice certain elements in the events that occur before the "we killed you" line (which is somewhat difficult with the rapidly shifting POVs). Dalinar is clutching a copy of The Way of Kings to his chest like a security blanket. Odium blasts the book out of Dalinar's hand and into cinders with a bolt of lightning and dismissively says "The words of a man long dead, long failed." At his lowest point Dalinar finds a single gloryspren inside his clenched fist, and then someone mentally whispers to him the "always the next step" answer to the riddle that dream Nohadon had previously asked. Dalinar says his oath, power explodes, Odium yells his cryptic "we killed you" I absolutely could be linking up unrelated events here, but at least to me, these events all seem to link together rather well to suggest who Odium thought had been previously killed.

I had the opposite problem. Growing up, my parents wouldn't let me go to my room and read.

Lead me do it for you.

Dyslexics of the world, untie!

I used to hate facial hair. Then it grew on me.

How do you make holy water? You boil the hell out of it. I was wondering why the ball was getting bigger. Then it hit me. I have a few jokes about unemployed people, but none of them work "I have a split personality," said Tom, being frank.

Next time you're in a meeting, any meeting, as soon as the presenter asked if there are any questions raise your hand and shout "iS ReCkOnErS CoSMeRe?"

As far as I know, these are either from the God beyond, Dalinar's imagination, or some other plot point that hasn't come up yet. When you die, your spiritual aspect will linger for a while, an "imprint" of what you were. When the three realms were pulled together, Dalinar was able to hear Evi's Spiritual aspect. The Spiritual aspects are also most likely what Szeth hears screams from.

When you and your sister get bored while stuck at home and decide to paint some rocks. And you paint some Cosmere ones!

Done. Many, many, many times. @Ashspren can attest to that. I also got my school library to order copies of Mistborn, Reckoners, Skyward, and tWoK (with help from another friend). I am disappointed I have never seen anybody wearing cosmere related clothing, although I almost bought a friend a doomslug shirt for his birthday (I am not sure what happened to that plan). Also, am I the only one who just legitimately asks people I have been talking to if they have read Sanderson books? I met somebody a couple weeks ago who had read Mistborn. The key is to push the conversation in a direction where the question "Are you familiar with Sanderson books?" isn't out of place, or, ask it even though it is out of place. Other, far more reasonable and logical ways: Randomly shout out "Destroy Evil" or ask the people around you if they want to destroy evil. Ask people if they want to be fire, insisting that they could be fire. If they respond with "I am a stick," you know it has worked. (This one works really well, doesn't make people think you are crazy at all...) Constantly mutter sanderson references under your breath, and when asked, blame it on Ruin. (This one is very effective at making sure you only meet sanderfans) I think the point of this thread is to compile strategy's so that when social distancing is no longer needed to keep people safe, we can all go out and find a ton of sanderfans to make up for sanderfans that we could not find during this time period.

New chapter!

This looks fun. Rogue One

I'm so glad... this is like my child.

I was gonna do this for my 5,000th post, but then I decided to do a poem, but I still wanted to do this. And so we have a bunch of Sanderson memes in the same format. My favorite format. Mistborn Spoilers: Stormlight Spoilers: Elantris: Edit: AGH! It posted before I could finish! Ah, well...

So, I’m not sure if this counts as a meme, but it’s the SA characters singing Bohemian Rhapsody. It’s spoiled for length.

The religion was called Shu-Giraffeth.

GOTCHA!!! I misunderstood you originally. ok now that you lay it out... hmm it seems like he is almost avoiding the trope that "all men think about is sex" to the opposite extreme. I never noticed that before! I did always infered that dalinars desires (especially blackthorne dalinar) were a bit less about marriage but marriage is the custom kind of like old catholic church. yeah that fourth ideal and now the truth about Helaran has really given her a lot she doesn't want to think about She doesnt even allow her self time to think about it shoving it somewhere else in her psych just like her parents murders. This is why I think Helaran isnt over yet. That and I just noticed on my reread that Shallan starts lying to herself to rationalize things with Jasnah This is where she tells herself that veil is different from her. This is where she accepts the lie. So it seems like its a combination of things that Shallan can't or doesn't want to confront... at least not yet

First, happy new year everyone!! Just as a general point, I am extremely happy with OB, and I think a lot of it is because these things which rightfully bug everyone as dropped/unexplored plot points, I think will be picked back up in the next book. Off the top of my head this includes - Adolin killing Sadeas, Kaladin killing Heleran, Shallan not accepting her last truth, Kaladin's 4th oath, Shallan's multiple personality issues - and of course the romance issues - stilted wedding for Shallan and Adolin, Kaladin and Shallan abruptly pushing aside their feelings. I see OB as a book where we readers learn a lot about the world through the trio - Urithiru, Unmade, voidbringers and their army, Shadesmar, lots of spren lore - but the trio is a vector for learning these things without much character growth. But because of my (maybe misplaced!) faith that these will be picked back up, I don't see them as negatives. But I know others feel differently! This is a really good point. I hadn't thought about it this way, because when we do finally get Adolin again, he is engaged in distracting action (distracting for him emotionally), so it makes sense he isn't as emotive about the Sadeas murder. He does think about it often, but you are correct that it's a bit discordant with intensity of the emotion we see in those first two viewpoints. Now that you point it out, I can see how these viewpoints feel added after the fact. I have a very different view on Adolin's romantic relationship weakness, which is that I think he's engaging in the same behavior which would drive women away in the past, but Shallan is more dedicated to making it work (she needs Adolin after all - first for her own security then later as an emotional crutch) and so she is fine with that behavior/idealizes Adolin in her head to compensate for it. What were two cute moments in OB - Adolin teaching Shallan the sword and taking her to meet Ialai - echo when he took Janala on the strap cutting investigation. Shallan reacts differently (though note she really didn't want to learn the sword, but Adolin pushed for it), but it's still Adolin engaging a girl in things he likes, not vice versa. (Note I don't think anything is wrong with this, but it's presented as part of his "courting issue" in WoK.) In his own PoVs, he's not that thoughtful towards Shallan (more thoughtful about Kaladin for instance), and we're shown that's he's phoning in one of his cheesy lines of praise. The one thing which does seem to be dropped is Adolin's flirting, though since we mostly see Shallan's viewpoints, we can't rule out that he still is being flirty/looky but she chooses to shut that out. I think Adolin's "relationship issues" will come to the forefront next book as part of the disintegration of the Adolin/Shallan marriage. I realize you have a different perspective on this which is fine! But this is why what you see as a dropped character point, I see as a point which is simmering below the surface. Yup. Agreed. And I could absolutely understand Shallan's decision, if she and Adolin went through any emotional bonding whatsoever. They didn't. They feel comfortable around each other and like to cuddle and stuff, but I just don't see any real emotional investment. Just necessity. Nothing really naturally evolved, they are at a standstill. Even worse, they are trying so hard to be cute and so 'in love', when it just turns into a giant cringefest, which even brings Teshav to roll her eyes. It just feels so forced. Shallan and Kaladin don't really feel like that. I don't think, that them confiding in each other was out of desperation, since they were relatively save in the alcove at that point. They didn't have a real reason to do it, but they did. Natural evolution of their relationship with each other. So I'm going to disagree with you guys that Shallan and Kaladin didn't have any bonding moments besides the chasms. @Mistbornwithakitty (awesome name btw) I agree that being forced into a desperate situation can create a "false" sense of a bond. After this desperate situation, I think you can get a distancing between the two people or you can get an increased closeness. Even though it's not shoved in our face, I think we get the latter. (Note, I'm not looking at this from a romantic perspective, but instead just from interpersonal closeness.) Once Kaladin comes back from Alethkar, Shallan decides to have him take her flying to draw Urithiru, so she's choosing to spend time with him. Kaladin chooses Shallan to accompany him to Thaylen City although he had other options who made more sense, most notably Renarin. We also have hints of conversations they have in this part (discussing Gaz for instance.) These are not "soul baring" moments, but they are two people who are choosing to spend time and interact when prior to the chasms they did not do so. (And it's not just because they are Radiants; Shallan and Renarin don't get closer for instance.) By the time we get to Kholinar, Shallan and Kaladin are working well together and seem to understand each other well - there are multiple times when Kaladin will raise eyebrow or give Shallan a look, and she'll get what he's conveying and vice versa (we see this from Shallan's PoV, for example after she exposes her safehand and prior to going into the Kholinar palace, and from Kaladin's PoV, for example in the winehouse waiting out the Everstorm.) Again, these are not romantic moments, but we see two people who are getting to know each other better such that they are able to read each other's emotions and expressions. We get a little throwaway moment at the very end where Shallan notes, "She'd seen how envious he's been as he'd watched those Fused, with their flowing robes, moving like the winds." Again, it's not dramatic emotion, but she knows him well enough to recognize his emotions and understand how he's feeling. Bottom line, at the end of WoR they had just come out of the chasms after a forced bonding moment but didn't know each other beyond that moment. By the end of OB, I would call them very firmly friends. (In fact, Kaladin might be the closest human to Shallan other than Adolin by the end of OB? Her relationship with Jasnah is stilted and very much a wardship rather than a friendship, and while her relationship with her men develops, it also seems strongly an employee/employee relationship.) I saw this totally differently! I thought this was the moment where we see a Shallan who fully accepts herself and an idea of the power she could possess. If she could just be the girl who is willing to show her safehand (put aside her prim, Vorin upbringing) she would have the power to throw back monsters. (We know from WoB, that the fact it was the safehand didn't impact Shallan beating Re-Shephir, but I think the fact Shallan was willing to expose it is very symbolic for her character.) She does in fact repel Re-Shephir in the moment where she remembers the full her. But instead of embracing that whole, powerful self, she once again chooses to shove down her secrets, and we end up with a weak girl who takes a week of pampering and tea drinking to get off the couch. In his defense, he went off to a male-dominated army at 15, Tien died, became famous with the spear so Tarah pursued him (he muses he would never have met Tarah without his reputation), dated her for a year, then shortly afterwards killed Heleran and was made a slave, ran in a bridge crew and then lived with a bunch of dudes. He's only 20! He's had a year-long relationship which is more than a lot of 20 year olds can say. I don't think he's very proactive or smart with women, but I also don't think that's uncommon for young adult males; they are all a bit dunces when it comes to romance