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We got to the end of Part 2! Here's some of the greatest hits up until Dalinar's choice to abdicate. Navani – Michelle-Pfeiffer-that-white-gold – “Not Michelle Pfeiffer… make sure they know it's Michelle-Pfeiffer-that-white-gold every time.” Chulls – Crab-cows – “It’s what they are, Chris!” ME: *reading about Kaladin thinking about abandoning the warcamps* TAY: If he’s going to abandon his friends in Bridge Four I’m done. He will be Traitorboi to me if he does that. ME: Knobweed- TAY: Ha! Knobweed. Sounds like pubes. That’s what I’m calling your pubes from now on. ME: So now that you’ve heard all of them – can you guess who wrote the letter in the epigraphs? TAY: *defeated* I dunno Chris. Is it the Court Jester? ME: Yes! TAY: Wait – really? Oh damnation I’m good at this! *after Bridge Four has chasm duty for the first time* TAY: Huh. Guess I was wrong. I seriously thought Slaveboi would be attacked by a Rock Lobster down there. ME: *knowing smile* ME: *describes Kaladin doing his first kata with a spear on chasm duty with Bridge Four* TAY: Weird flex, but ok. ME: *describing Dalinar smashing things with a hammer when he’s thinking* TAY: That’s some Perrin Aybara stuff right there. ME: *says ‘Brightlord’* TAY: Hey Chris hey. If there’s a brightlord is there a dumblord? Heh. *pauses* Sadeas. Sadeas is a dulllord. ME: *reads the word khokh and linil describing Dalinar’s glyphpair* TAY: Did you say cock? *laughs uproariously* And it’s in the shape of a tower too! Ha! Legitimately interested reactions (oohs and aahs - not just being funny) to: - Dalinar thinking that there’s a pattern to the Shattered Plains. - The Parshendi having grown their own armour - How spanreeds work

Hey everyone! So I, like many of you I'm sure, have been trying to successfully convert my wife to the Cosmere. Literally since I met her I've been trying to get her to read The Way of Kings but there never seemed to be a good time for her to jump into it - either she was reading something else, had too much work, or just couldn't commit to a 1000-page book whose series wasn't finished yet. However, we've recently figured out that she really enjoys being read aloud to - she likes the sound of my voice and it helps her relax after a long day (she's a high school English teacher dealing with teenage angst all day - please show her some sympathy here). So naturally, I finally sold her on tWoK and I've been reading it to her for the last few months, a bit at a time. At the moment, we're in part 2 and just read the scene where Dalinar experiences the first vision we see 'on-screen' where the Midnight Essence shows up and he fights it off with a fire poker. So here's another thing: my wife is absolutely hilarious and also has trouble remembering names (to be fair, Alethi names have a lot of -lin, -as, -nar suffixes), so I recently asked her to give me a breakdown of what she remembers each character as. Here's what she's got: Kaladin - Slaveboi - "He used to be soldierboi, now he's slaveboi, but I'm pretty sure by the end of all this he'll be shardboi" Shallan - Sneak - "She's so mean! She's just becoming friends with her to steal her magic jewellery. I don't like her." Dalinar - Jeffrey Dean Morgan - "He looks like JDM." Adolin - The Hot Brother - "He's kind of a slut right?" Renarin - The Awkward Brother Sylphrena - Manic Pixie Dream Girl Sadeas - B****boi - "He's the idiot with the bridges right? Yeah, he's a b****boi." Jasnah - Princess Jasmine - "She's a princess right? No? Yes - she's the daughter of Dead Kingy Boi." Gavilar - Dead Kingy Boi Szeth - The Michelin Man - "Because he's big and all in white!" "Tay, he's average size. Just his eyes are described as big." "Are you kidding me?" Elhokar - Boi King - "You're making sure to write these all as 'b-o-i', right?" Gaz - C***! - I know this board doesn't allow swearing - but she just straight-up shouted the c-word when I mentioned Gaz. The Stormfather - The Stormdaddy - "Make sure they know it's being said in an uncomfortably sexual way." Chasmfiends - Rock Lobsters Some early hot takes from Tay: - Dalinar killed Gavilar so that he could become king because he's in love with Gavilar's wife. - The shardbearer who Kaladin fights in the first chapter killed all of his men and enslaved Kaladin. - Sadeas is behind the cut saddle. - Kaladin and Syl are going to fall in love. - Kaladin is going to get a shardblade ("He's obviously going to get a shardblade Chris... don't mess with me here.") - Shallan already has a shardblade (!) - Shallan is going to feel too guilty to steal Jasnah's soul-caster OR "Princess Jasmine is going to catch her sneaking around and say 'Hey Sneak. Let's have a DMC about why you want to steal my magic jewellery.'" I also thought I'd pop back in on this thread every once in a while to update you with any fun observations she makes in the future, and thought this could be a nice place to share our experiences with introducing the series to the people in our lives and their reactions to us being insufferable and incorrigible nerds!

So I guess it was my Shardiversary yesterday... huh.

She just read this on my post- "What? He abdicates!?" Turns out she fell asleep through the last few pages.

I was taking a gander at all of the posts on the Arcanum about Nightblood, and I couldn't find anything which exactly answers this question. Here's the information/assumptions I started with: Nightblood is powerful™: perhaps the strongest non-Shardic object in the history of the Cosmere, maybe ever (though that's still basically nothing compared to an actual Shard) The Dor is effectively the power of two Shards all trapped within the Cognitive Realm around Sel, a bit like a 40k Warp Storm but with fewer Daemons (hopefully). Nightblood really likes eating Investiture.[Citation needed] The Dor would not pull back from Nightblood in the way that the mists would, as they seem to be very pressure-driven and totally mindless, rather than being connected to a living Shard. Here's my proposal: Get Nightblood to Sel with an Elsecaller who really doesn't have much to live for. This is a trivial step and left as an exercise to the reader. Transfer Nightblood to the Cognitive Realm using said suicidal Elsecaller, while the sword is unsheathed. This should actually be pretty straightforward, from what I understand about Elsecalling. I'd rather not go via a Perpendicularity here, because Brandon's suggested that they might just collapse. That's not a very reliable way of accessing the Dor. Doing this rather than as per my initial phrasing of the question would mean that Nightblood appears in "the middle" of the Dor, rather than on the edges where any effects might not be so great. Wait a couple months. My hypothesis is that Nightblood would happily devour all of the nearby Dominion and Devotion Investiture; the result of this slow cooking at 70°C would be Nightblood becoming significantly more powerful and tender, perhaps even to the point of being Shard-threateningly powerful. Among the Shards, Odium is torn because on the one hand, Passion, but on the other hand, dying, while peaceable folk like Autonomy just wet themselves in fear and made another dozen Avatars to try to relax, and Endowment is consumed with equal parts laughter and terror. In other news, Vasher goes back to Nalthis and kills Shashara again just on principle. The other options are far more terrifying in my opinion: either Nightblood overloads from destroying so much evil and explodes, killing anyone nearby and losing us Sword-nimi as a character, or Nightblood Ascends and takes on the Shards of Dominion and Devotion in some capacity. Brandon hasn't committed to whether Nightblood could Ascend, but assuming it could I'd be interested to hear what you guys think its Intent would be as a combined Dominion/Devotion. Crusade; being Dominion over "evil" and Devotion to the sword's Command?

Wah- How *gawks* I'm in awe Has your wife read any other cosmere? *Awe spren attracted*

Quick update! So I told my wife about how excited everyone was getting on this board. This is generally how it went down: ME: "I got so many points! I went from Prelan to Babsk to Houselord and now I'm a Forescout!" TAY: "None of those mean a single thing to me." ME: "So how about I read to you again tonight? You can help me with my burgeoning career as a Cosmere comedian. Wait - does that make me Wit?" TAY: "No, Chris. It makes me Wit. You're just the vessel I use to share my genius with the masses." Either way, I read a good five chapters last night. Here are some of the zingers: ME READING: "'I can save her,' Kal said." TAY: *snorts* "Ha! No you can't. Why? Because character development, Slaveboi, that's why." Tay tries to convince me by way of a five minute conversation that the White Stripes predicted the plot of the book - "Think about it, Chris! 'I'm talking to myself at night because I can't forget'! Like the Stormdaddy is talking to JDM during the storms! I'm right." She has also predicted that Kaladin secretly killed Brightlord Wisitow when he was 13 - "Because... abuse? Or something. Slaveboi doesn't like Lighteyes anyways." She also came up with the following character names: Rock - Dwayne Johnston Wit - The Court Jester Brightlord Wisitow - Brightlord Wichita (this was the starting off point for her hot take on the White Stripes) Laral - Rosalind - "Rosamund. Because he's got unrequited love with her like Romeo and Rosamund. Wait - no. Rosalind. Rosamund is playing Moiraine." Lirin - Pop-Pop And last but not least, she came up with her title for The Way of Kings. I present to you: The Adventures of Slaveboi and Jeffrey Dean Morgan - Book One of the Stormlight Archive. That's all I've got for now! But if we're stuck at home with COVID-19 any time soon, I'm sure there will be more!

Long Game 64: Choose Your Own Sanderson Adventure! NOTE: Please read this entire post before signing up. Welcome to LG64! This is a modified rerun of LG38, which means you make the rules. However, in order to avoid the utter chaos of LG38, these come with two important stipulations: Follow the ‘Rules for Making Rules’ guidelines below, which indicate what possibilities you can create depending on your location in the signup order. Signups will be updated as often as possible to ensure the player list and rules are accurate. We, your esteemed GMs, have complete veto or modification power over any and all rules. If we choose to completely veto your rule, you are permitted to try again. (If you want to avoid getting a veto, don’t break the game. :P) If the end result has important holes in it, we’ll also choose how to adjust for that. We recommend strongly that you try to work together to create this game, and to make your rule work with the game’s rules as they already stand at the point of signing up. This game is not an excuse to throw together every cool mechanic you’ve never seen used before - it’s an invitation to you, the players, to make the kind of game you enjoy playing. Think about what you most enjoy in games you’ve played previously and see if you can work that in. The game will start on 29 Mar 2020 at 9 PM PDT/ 12 AM EDT, with rollover at time for future cycles. The game will have standard Day and Night turns. Elbereth and I are co-GMing this game. Rules for Making Rules In order to ensure this ends up vaguely sensible, the rule you create will be based on how many players there are at the time of your signing up. You may, if you choose, pass entirely (not create anything) or pass on your turn until a specified point later down (e.g. if you’re in the first five, you can say ‘I want to create a role’ and you’ll be allowed to do so when signups get to that point, letting someone else take your place in the first five). The way this works is something of an ‘unlocking’ system. Three basic things have to be set before anything else can be created, and so will default to the first players to sign up. These are: the world (must be Sanderson) and setting and at least two factions. One player chooses the world, after which a second player must choose the specific setting within said world. If the first two factions are standard village/eliminator factions, one player can choose to create both of them and declare their win conditions. This is the only instance in which one player can create two factions, rather than one. All basic elements have been chosen. Always Available: After the first three basic points are settled (world, setting, and two factions), any player may do one of at least two things. Roles: create up to two roles. Flavor: create some piece of flavor, like a GM character or a more specific story premise. Early Options: These will set to default if no player has chosen them by the 10th signup and no longer be an option to choose. Lynch mechanics: Default to two vote minimum, coin flip to break ties, a player lynched is removed from the game entirely. Special basic mechanic: Default is none. This could be something like MR38’s Fellowship mechanic, LG4’s breath mechanic, LG9’s room mechanic, LG28’s omen mechanic, etc. PM mechanics: Default to open. Unlockables: These options are based on the number of players currently in the game. At above 11 players, a third faction is available. At above 16 players, a fourth faction is available. At 21 players, players can create a single type of item which can be passed between players. Ruleset So Far World: Alcatraz!Earth Setting: The White House Flavor: Calvin Coolidge haunts the White House. Factions Librarians: You've lost your influence in the White House and are trying to regain it. Unfortunately, you quickly realize that there are people trying to thwart your efforts. Kill or imprison all of your opponents. Crystal Knights: You have followed the Smedry to the White House. Your goal is to brainwash the Librarians, converting them to your side by embedding crystal shards in the back of their necks. Embedding a crystal shard is a night action. Your second primary win condition is to protect and catch the Smedry, sending them back to the Free World. If the Smedry dies, you lose. The Rogue Smedry: You are trying to protect the President of the US from becoming a Librarian puppet. Your goal is to kill all the Librarians. You have a night action kill to help with this. You are not aware of any Crystal Knights in the White House, thinking you have successfully escaped them. You win when everyone else is dead. Lynch Mechanics: If more than 50% of the votes cast in one cycle are on the player who would be lynched, that player is removed from the game completely. If 50% or less of the votes cast in a cycle are on the player who would be lynched, that player is locked up, can still vote, cannot take any actions, and cannot start PMs. Locked up players do not count towards win con totals. Special basic mechanic: You can only use your action on people you have a PM with. Faction actions are immune to this rule. If you do not make a PM for two cycles straight, you will die. If you have a PM with all living players, you are exempt from this effect. PM mechanics: You can create one PM per turn, by placing an order in your GM PM. No group PMs allowed. You will start the game in one-on-one PMs with exactly two other players. Roles Oculator: once per cycle, can scan a player to learn who they opened PMs with that turn. Therapist: Your goal in life is to help people find their true potential! Once per cycle, you can choose to switch the role of two players. If one or both roles are alignment-specific, the switch fails. This cannot be used on captured players. Curator of the Library of the Congress: Much like your cousins in Alexandria, you are a specter charged with care of the Library of Congress. Once per night, you can lure someone into a trap, keeping them from taking action. (standard roleblock) Trouble Magnet: You were born unlucky, and trouble gravitates towards you. Once per cycle, target a player. If they are of a different alignment than you, both you and your target die. Gossiper: You've heard juicy secrets, and now you have to spill the beans. Once per cycle, create a temporary PM with yourself and as many other people as you want in it. This ignores the restriction on group PMs. The people in this PM do not count toward the people you can target based on PMs, so if you do not already have a one-on-one PM with a player in the group PM, you still cannot target that player with an action. The group PM is closed at the end of the cycle. Head of the Order of the Shattered Lens: Once per game, you can set up pillars which cause the actions of any player not in your faction to fail, including faction actions and PMs. Jail-breaker: has three chances to break people out from prison. Each time, they get more practiced in breaking people out, so they're more likely to succeed. But the guards become more and more alert, so they have a higher chance of being caught. - Try 1: 80% chance of failing, no chance of being caught. - Try 2: 50% to fail, 30% chance to be caught. - Try 3: 20% chance to fail, 60% chance to be caught. Transporter: You may target a player with whom you have a PM. For all intents and purposes you have changed positions. Any action that would target you is used on them. Any that would target them would target you. Madness Lenses: You may target a player. That player's actions are assigned randomly among legal targets this cycle (including those in jail. PMs excluded.) Criminal: You have been to jail so many times that you are a leader among the inmates. When you are locked up, each other locked up person's lynch vote has a 40% chance of changing to the same as your vote. Paper Tosser: You throw a wadded up paper ball at another player, distracting them and making any action they took delayed in the order of actions. Can be used once per cycle. Anonymous Contact: Can anonymously send messages to up to two people per cycle (submitted through the GM, who will forward the message to the player of choice). Airplane Spoon: You are a spoon shaped like an airplane. You are used as evidence in a crime scene, and can send one player to jail as an action. However, you are soon forgotten and the player is released after one cycle. The same player cannot be targeted twice in a row. Silimatic Engineer: You have expertise in different glasses used in the Free Kingdoms. All glass actions are night actions, including creating glass. You may choose what type of glass you create, but you cannot create the same type of glass twice in a row. Glass can be used twice unless otherwise stated. You cannot create and use glass in the same night. Glass types Communicators glass: set up an additional PM at night. Defender's glass: Target a person (including yourself), preventing anyone from visiting them that night. Enforcer's glass: Attempt to detain someone, putting them in prison with enforcer's glass handcuffs. If your target is of a different faction, they will be roleblocked. If the target is of your own faction, you will be roleblocked the following night (you cannot create or use glass). Grappler's glass: See who visits someone for the night. You will need to put the glasses on after creating them, before you can use them. Putting them on is either a day or night action. If you put the glasses on during the day, you will sacrifice your vote and have a 10% chance of someone catching you wearing the glasses, but you'll be able to use them the following night. Inhibitor's glass: Stop the person you target if their ability is based on silimatic technology or Smedry talents. Protector's glass: Protects from a single attack, but degrades two days after you've put it on if it hasn't been used. You can either put it on yourself or give it to someone else (through a night action). If given, it will automatically be equipped to the receiver, who will be informed. This glass does not protect from the lynch. Snarer's glass: See what actions visited your target that night (but not who). NOT YET UNLOCKED: Fourth faction Items Player List Quick Links

I’ve been looking around this website for a while now, but only just decided to sign up now.

Try and awkwardly shove cosmere words into ordinary conversations to see if you get a reaction. “So I’m really invested in this book series right now.” “I’ll put this food in the fridge for its preservation.” “That fire really burns bright, doesn’t it? It must be because of all those sticks.” “I wonder when this storm will pass. We have no power so we have to use candles for light.” “It’s great to see them showing such devotion to each other.” “Colours! ...are so pretty, aren’t they?” “Oh, rust! My bike is ruined by all this rust!” “Remember to get your correct iron intake so you’re strong enough to pull stuff around.” I have no idea how you would naturally integrate some of those into a conversation, but oh well.

BoS ran so fast that she ended up behind the Champion, so she squeezed lemons in his eyes while screaming: “WHEN LIFE GIVES YOU LEMONS YOU SQUEEZE THEM INTO YOUR ENEMY’S EYES!!!”

That’s all the cosmere needs, more cult leaders.

Actually, it would be: "He death mirrored his habits; he always loved being absorbed into dangerous things."

"He died as he lived; bursting with energy."

Imagine the tombstone inscription. Also you probably wouldn't feel anything, maybe.

I think Wyndle may do that too I personally can't get this Kaladin Vs Shallan Horrible Backstory thing Is it necessary to compare two different characters backstories? They're entirely different people who have had really different (though similarly depressing) experiences, I don't think you can compare their experiences because they're two characters people with vastly different personalities. I would just say that they both have had a really hard go of things and leave it at that.

Almost forgot! Technically it's still Thursday, so I'm posting this really quick. Day Ravioli

Haha just want to add to the general positive vibes, please keep us informed on developments. Also, "Rock Lobsters" should become the generally-accepted fandom term for chasmfiends from now on.

Hello all! Time for a multiquote, because even as a GM I can't help it. Correct. Unless Kynedath says differently (as they submitted the lynch mechanics rule), it'll be random. Again, Kynedath can have input on this, but I would rule no - if you're captured and lynched by plurality, you'll die as if you'd been lynched by majority. (edited to remove everything that isn't a question) Crystal Knights will be added to an elim doc as they're converted, and that doesn't need to be made into a rule by one of you. We will definitely make sure this game is balanced for both sides. Right now, that somewhat depends on the final roles and rules, but I think it's fairly likely that the Crystal Knights will not get a conversion every cycle (since conversions are twice as powerful than just kills). I'm going to rule that the Crystal Knights can convert captured players. Remember that role and alignment both will not be revealed upon capture, only upon death. You're correct. The Gossiper can have anyone in this group PM, whether they also have a personal PM with that person. Effectively the Gossiper role doesn't interact with the PM rule at all, which you can think of as only covering one-on-one cases. Faction action, last submission in the turn. I'm not sure about twice per game, though it depends on the eventual number of players we have. I'm assuming that this is not a public, announced action: do you want to be a turn in advance (so put in during the previous Day turn) or simultaneous? Though the last bit is somewhat unlikely, I'll nix it anyway - more than one night of no actions in a row is going to be annoying for everyone. Fifth? You're amazing.

Saying pretty much anything memorable from the books or laughing whenever honor, hope, sticks, metal, storms, etc. come up in conversation.

I now see the beauty in this I'm now a HijackLobsterBoi How long did it take you to find this? This is were the fun begins MWAHAHA You know who's had chouta?

Or you could accidentally miss your target and be killed by plasma investiture. MAYBE?!?!?!

Having you soul ripped out while your body and mind are being converted into pure investiture wouldn't be so BAD?

You know of all the ways to go that's not so bad.

Well, if you're wrong, you lose Nightblood, so it would be better to be safe. Unless absorbing that much investiture substantially changes him. I could totally see him turning into a black hole that screams "DESTROY EVIL" and eats anything near it.

I have reasons to doubt this. As I said, the Dor seems to be built on pressure — that's one of the main conflicts that Raoden endures in Elantris; the Dor keeps trying to push through him to relieve the pressure. If there were a null spot, then the Dor would have a concentration/pressure/etc gradient which would push it into that area to be sucked up, kind of like a vacuum cleaner (maybe a black hole is a better comparison?).

Hey people of the Shard! How are y'all doing? Day Linguine

It’s been a while and I need to jump back into SE while I have the time, so I’ll sign up as Sergey Karjakin, Russian ambassador and secret advisor to the Secretary of Defence. I too have not read Alcatraz, but that’s no excuse for not giving El and Wilson more of a headache more fun with writeups! So I have a flavour addition to the game. The Thirtieth President: The specter of Calvin Coolidge haunts the White House. Once per phase, a d4 is rolled and one of the following writeup consequences results: 1: Coolidge randomly interrupts both a random one-on-one and a random group PM with cryptic commentary. 2: Coolidge terrifies a random player out of his wits. 3: Coolidge participates in a murder, lynch, conversion, or other writeup-significant event. 4: GM discretion (but it can’t be nothing ).

This makes a lot of sense, but there is one bit that may be more relevant than alluded to in the OP: color. And I'm not just talking about Red=Corruption; Sanderson has stated that color is fundamental to the Cosmere, so I'd be willing to bet it's gonna play a bigger role than it seems for now.

It looks likely that the latest my game could go is halfway through Day 1 of this game so I'll go ahead and sign up. I apologize right now that I don'e know the setting and so RP will suffer. I have a few questions about the rules as they are right now. Are we adding Crystal Knights to one eliminator doc as we go? Is that a rule one of us need to add? While that doesn't fall under the purview of either suggestions for the rules for rules it seems like an important rule. I had three questions right here all typed up. Refreshed the page to see if you had answered them and you did. Well done, Wilson! Is the game currently winnable for the liebrarians? Even without Kynedath's more interesting (if complicated) lynch mechanic, the liebrarians would lose at parity. Even a normal lynch becomes insurmountable when the teams are even. The crystal knights must know who their teammates are because they are converting them. You can't hide information from the person providing it. Given that, maybe we want to consider having liebrarian only kill roles that they lose upon conversion. That makes the Liebrarians the eliminators with the village as the secret faction. Sorry if that kills the flavor, but I'm hoping help keep it balanced. I appreciate the clarification that locked up players do not count toward or against win conditions, but can they still be converted for their vote. If they can, is that revealed after the rest of their role has already been revealed? I understand the gossiper isn't restricted by the one on one PM rule, but is he restricted by the 'you can only target those you have PMs with' rule? It's implied that it's not restricted, but I'd like it explicit. Does each Crystal Knight have a convert power, or is it a faction action? Will you take the first or last submission for conversion if there is only one convert per cycle? Sorry for the million questions. I'll come up with a rule or two once I'm sure I understand the world we're building. My character is Karen, a child too precocious to be lovable Edit: Ninja'd by Wilson and Experience It is helpful to have the changes spelled out. Thank you! Good questions, Experience!

I think the Kaladin/Shallan who had it worse question is explicitly addressed in WoR. Kaladin himself acknowledges that Shallan's pain and suffering is on par with his - he can tell as soon as she opens even a little window into her true feelings. It's just that her mechanism of coping is to suppress her own memories and paper over her feelings so she can keep on functioning. Kaladin's method of coping is to withdraw and turn inward. Both definitely have their flaws. I personally don't exactly demand change but I like characters better when they do change. It makes them feel more real and satisfying to read. I think Szeth has changed in some ways as a character - the key change being that he has realized that he was not actually "Truthless" and all the things he did in WoK and WoR were not justified by Shin law. Hoid is a minor character in Stormlight Archive, so you can't expect him to get enough screen time for a character arc where he would change. Everybody likes what they like and that's fine. If you don't like Shallan there's no problem with that. But she's one of my personal favorite characters along with Kaladin. I'm probably different than a lot of people here though - I value the politics, the emotional interactions, the planning, etc much more than the action and fighting scenes. Lift, Hoid, and Szeth are probably my least favorite, though Lift is growing on me.

I wasn't arguing your other points, just clarifying that Tien's bond began before he was conscripted.

It never fully solidified. Tien never swore his first oath, he just had a spren following him around.

I agree with the all non-Shallan-haters While Shallan isn't the greatest character I would rather have her in the story than out of it. Not all of her quips are funny but most are, she's shown incredible resilience, and while she was mean to Kaladin (uncool) she wasn't trying to injure him (emotionally) just get under his skin, and I'm sure everyone has tried to antagonize others at one point or another. Without Shallan we wouldn't have Stick, or Pattern, two of the best Stormlight Characters. I'm not saying Shallan is amazing, I'm just saying she's a good strong character that doesn't deserve a lot of the things that are being said about her.

BoS through some old mashed potatoes at the Champion, which was followed by a hatchet directed towards @Edgedancer_of_spirits. And the hatchet had a cute little card on it: Dear Edgedancer_of_spirits, I got this just for you! Enjoy your decapitation, BoS.

Dalinar is definitely one of my favorite characters I've ever encountered in any work of fiction, but if I had to pick a character I'm most intrigued by right now, and one whose story I most want to dive into, it would be Szeth. I do really like his dedication to a single purpose, even to the point of driving himself insane. He seems to have a lot of willpower, but he's never really had the free will to act on it himself. He fought in the Battle of Thaylenah, but I'm interested to see his interactions as a free person, especially with the rest of the characters. The thing that makes me the most intrigued, however, is that I totally can't understand his commitment to the whole Truthless/Oathstone thing. Where did his determination to stick with that come from? Is it religious devotion? A genuine fear of the afterlife? I have to know the answers.

I think Tien, Elhokar, and Shallan's personal lies are much more obvious and formidable. Also Tien did not start to bond until after leaving behind his home and that lie and joining the army. That is slightly supernatural sort of.

"people aren't evil at heart, but they aren't good either. We make who we are." I said this in response to a status update by silva. These two sentences are somehow the source of both my depression and anxiety, and my joy and hope. Thank you all for being with me for the past... god almost two years now. You have been with me in bad and good, seen my at my worst and best. Thank you. All of you.

I like it, but the real trick is making it seem like something completely different, for example... Rogue One:

New best coworker ever!

Yes. I certainly have done in the past, and I agree it can be challenging to receive critiques, and difficult to decide how to them. I think starting this thread was an excellent idea, KS, and I applaud you for doing it. It's something we've dealt with before as a group, but having as a dedicated thread makes a lot of sense, I think. Some points, as they occur to me: (1) - Critique is opinion: I think the first thing to remember is that the views one receives on a piece are always the opinion of the critiquer (I know, not a word, but I don't think 'critic' carries the right connotations here). The opinions one receives might be wrong, or the issues might be right, but the assessment of it unhelpful. I think the thing to concentrate on is when a number of people raise the same issue. I think that's a clear sign to a writer that numerous people are finding this or that aspect problematic; (2) - Making revisions: My approach to this, for what it's worth--particularly if I struggle to accept what a majority of people are saying--is to make a small change, rather than a sweeping change. Now, that might not be possible if the comment is something like 'This whole character is unconvincing'. That's a root and branch thing where changes would have to run through a whole book, probably, but those changes don't need to be massive. If I got a comment that a character's inner voice was unconvincing or not interesting, I might try to add a single pithy or subtle comment on each page, maybe only a few words, just to elevate the voice, without ripping the whole novel apart. There will always be another edit. Books take many edits to reach a point where they in a state to be submitted to an agent or publisher; (3) - Motivation: I have struggled with this on occasion, and I've been on here for almost seven years. And I don't mean I've struggled with this seven years ago. I've submitted material that I thought was really pretty good, and received some downbeat reviews, a majority of people highlighting problems that I did not see, leaving me quite depressed about my work, recognising that they were right and not knowing what to do about it. There have been a couple of occasions where I have walked away from the forum for a spell (maybe a week or two), because I did not want to face the problems with the project, and felt hard done by, even resentful. This leads me onto... (4) - The Group: Having been here for seven years, the long-term members of the group know each other pretty darn well. We have met in person, we converse off forum, we have been reading each other's work for a long time, and we have learned in that time how to take critique. Some members come and go, but there has always been a strong group of committed writers--of 'all' levels progress in the industry--who are committed to their own writing and committed to helping others improve. I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times that we have had problem members, whose critiques have had something of an agenda to them, and they do not last long. So, you can always expect an honest, straight-up opinion about your work. These opinions, I strong believe, always come from a place of honesty, support, and commitment to the quality the work and to helping writers improve. (5) - Writing: It's hard, it's difficult, it's challenging, and--unlike what a lot of people on the outside might think--it is not a solitary occupation. I believe that anyone who thinks they can write in a microcosm and produce an excellent, balanced, appealing novel that can be tweaked a bit then typeset and published is most certainly not being realistic. For one thing, it takes a lot of practice to hone the skills and insight and voice to produce work that might be considered for publication, maybe, after it's been submitted and edited and resubmitted again, and again. I'm not published. I'm still working on that (time is still a massive challenge for me), but I strongly believe I am in a massively supportive and positive and encouraging place that will help me to make that happen. (6) - Improvement: Subbing to a group like, as honest and encouraging (which I think it is) as this, can be a reality check for some folks. I think it is absolutely necessary to take in advice from other sources, like Reading Excuses podcast, of course; or one like the Death of 1,000 Cuts podcast (which I like), or Dave Wolverton's writing newsletter (he taught creative writing to Brandon Sanderson and Dan Wells). Many others are available. I think beginning writers (certainly me, anyway, back in the day), maybe tend towards thinking they are better than they are, through no fault of their own, because they have not been exposed to the writing community, to the feedback, and to more experienced writers who have published (like Kais, Mandamon and Shattered Smooth in this instance). Impartial, external advice is so important for any writer to improve. (7) - Thinking as well as writing: This is something I am terrible at. I get the spark of an idea, flesh it out a bit and dive in, to the novel, the chapter, whatever it happens to be. I am trying much more now to think about what I am trying to achieve by writing something. Okay, it will fill a particular space in genre or in the stuff I have 'finished' (i.e. got the end of and now in hiatus awaiting the next edit), but what is the purpose of me writing something? Is it to improve on a particular weakness in my skills, am I aiming at a particular market, or submission or competition? I think most beginning writers set out, whether they realise it or not, on some level just to see if they can do it, i.e. complete a novel... (8) - Finish it: ...but, sometimes, I think maybe beginning writers don't have the skills or experience or commitment to get through that first novel. We've certainly seen dozens come and go. In my time here there have been circa 115-120 authors come through the group, but there are probably only maybe 10 active at present. I think it's important to recognise that writing is a skill, as well as a calling / passion / need, and that commitment to writing means recognising that we might not be good enough at the start to write a best-seller out of the blocks, and that our first novel is likely not to be particularly groundbreaking, or even well written, but that the important thing is to finish it, learn how to do that, then move on to the next one, which will be better--guaranteed--because of the wealth of learning involved in finishing the first one. (8) - Writers write: It's rather a cliché but, like most clichés, that's because it's true. I think what the phrase also means is that writers keep writing, even though it's hard and they have doubts about the quality, logic, whatever, of what they are writing, but because they need to finish what they are writing. Maybe they come back to it to edit, or even finish it, but they keep going, keep writing, move on to something different, more challenging in order to learn different skills, but they keep going. So, sorry about that outpouring of... whatever that was. I really hope it does not come across as pompous, or opinionated. It is 100% not supposed to be that, and that's not where it came from. It was meant to be encouraging, and I hope some of it is. Goodness knows I'm not the world's gift to anything, but I've been working at this writing lark for about 35 years (not constantly, and not always hard), so I like to think I've got some experience to share, of one particular journey at least. I don't really have a claim to fame, but just for context on the above rambling, I've written 6 novels; 13 short stories; 2 novellas; and 3 novelettes, and I'm still trying, still planning. Last year, one of my shorts was long-listed for the James White Award, administered by the British Science Fiction Society and it still feels like my crowning achievement. I really hope to continue to read your stuff. I am always concerned that I am not sufficiently positive when I'm critiquing, I admit that. I tend to home in on detail, and maybe not say enough about big picture, but there are others on here who are better at that than I am, and that's what makes us a strong group, I think. I liked a lot about your submission. I didn't see how much it improved from the first version, but plenty of people said it was a good improvement, and I trust their opinions implicitly. I have heard numerous agents say that it's vital to edit things until you don't think you can make it any better. I know for me personally that would be five, six, seven edits, whatever, probably after different feedback each time. My current project, TCC, has been through this group three times. The first time it was only the first chapter, then the first 8 or 9. Now it's going to go all the way though (the novel wasn't finished when I subbed the first chapter, or the first 9 chapters). Next, I hope to get an alpha read of the whole thing. Then I'll edit again. What I'm saying in my looooong-winded way is that we are here to support you and will be happy to openly discuss not just the details in feedback, but the wider issues of dealing with feedback, improving skills and the piece itself, and anything else that comes along the writing journey. I for one would be very happy to have an extended conversation about dealing with feedback. So, thanks again for raising this, I think it can be really positive and useful discussion for all of us. Very best wishes, Robinski p.s. I thought some inspirational quotes might be in order. "Read, read, read. Read everything -- trash, classics, good and bad, and see how they do it. Just like a carpenter who works as an apprentice and studies the master. Read! You'll absorb it. Then write. If it's good, you'll find out. If it's not, throw it out of the window."--William Faulkner "A writer is someone for whom writing is more difficult than it is for other people."--Thomas Mann, Essays of Three Decades "Don't bend; don't water it down; don't try to make it logical; don't edit your own soul according to the fashion. Rather, follow your most intense obsessions mercilessly."--Franz Kafka "Writing books is the closest men ever come to childbearing."― Norman Mailer "If it sounds like writing, I rewrite it." -- Elmore Leonard

I would totally read The Adventures of Slaveboi and Jeffery Dean Morgan. That book sounds awesome.

You're assuming she's lawful good. Rather think chaotic neutral

i'm a teacher too and want to show her some sympathy