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In Oathbringer, we learned about a new Realmatic concept called “avatars.” We don’t have a lot to go on, but I think there is a little we can piece together about them. I’ll begin with laying out all the sources we have on the subject, and follow with in-depth analyses of confirmed and speculated avatars to see what we can figure out. Unfortunately, won’t be able to skim the section headings and skip ahead; I’m going to be building concepts throughout the entire treatise. Stuff I casually assert in later headings, I spend a lot of time defining and defending in earlier ones. So you’ll need to read the whole thing top-down without skipping. Sources The first we learned about them was in Oathbringer, published on November 14, 2017, in a selection of the epigraphs forming a letter written to Hoid. And here’s a list of WoBs, numbered for easy reference. WoB 1. November 28th, 2017. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256/#e8606 WoB 2. December 16, 2017. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/314/#e9082 WoB 3. Relevant excerpts from a much larger conversation. March 18, 2018. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/315/#e9385 WoB 4. October 26, 2019. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/398/#e13220 WoB 5. November 26, 2019 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/402/#e13323 WoB 6. Nov 26, 2019 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/402/#e13339 Lastly, before I get started on my conclusions, I want to present some Wikipedia quotations about the religious doctrine of avatars. Between things like forum avatars, the Last Airbender TV show, and the James Cameron movie, the word itself is fairly common, but our usage has drifted away from the theological definition, the original Hindu concepts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar The big takeaway for me here is that the avatar is the opposite of something like the cosmere’s Ascension. It’s not a mortal attaining to something greater; it’s something greater manifesting in a limited, relatable fashion. Patji Let’s dive into specifics. We have two confirmed avatars; Patji on First of the Sun, and an unnamed female on Obrodai. We obviously don’t know much about the latter, but we’ve been given a few additional tantalizing clues about Patji in the WoBs I’ve shared above. But before discussing WoBs, I’ve got a few novel interpretations of the Oathbringer letter. You may have noticed that I split it into two sections. There’s no indication in the epigraphs themselves of this, but something has seemed off about this response ever since the first time I read it, and this split into an initial response and a later response was the only way I could finally get everything to click. There’s the question of authorship. There’s a presumption of “past relationship,” which, in my mind, immediately indicated a Vessel from Yolen. There’s also the line about Hoid having written to “one who cannot respond,” on the “insignificant” world of First of the Sun, as if Hoid wrote a letter addressed to Patji, but another, the Vessel Bavadin herself, is writing the response. But that never sat quite right with me. In Way of Kings, Hoid admits to having a grudge against Bavadin, one that guides his actions. “You have accused me of arrogance in my quest. You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin. Both accusations are true.” So why is he relying on past relationship with Bavadin to convince her to help? Seems the past relationship would hurt his chances. And why are there oceanic metaphors throughout the epigraphs if the letter isn’t actually from Patji, the avatar on the ocean planet? And though we don’t have Hoid’s letter, I also couldn’t help but wonder, who had he actually addressed it to? Was it Bavadin (the past relationship), or Patji (the one who couldn’t respond)? These questions led me to develop an alternate interpretation: Hoid wrote the letter to Patji, with no intention of Bavadin receiving it at all. The “past relationship” indicates that Hoid knew Patji. The “one who cannot respond” epigraph isn’t saying that Patji is literally incapable of communicating; it’s Patji saying “I gotta ask my manager.” He does so, and then Bavadin says “box that fool out,” and then he writes the second portion of the letter with the denial. Approaching another one of Autonomy’s avatars may have been more successful, one more willing to say “Thumbs up, let’s do this!” without checking in with Bavadin. So, Patji was someone that Hoid knew before he became the avatar on First of the Sun. (Hoid couldn’t have met him on FotS; otherwise, Patji wouldn’t have been surprised he’d been found.” This meshes with one of Brandon’s phrases from WoB 3: “I didn't even get into what avatars are, what Patji was, and what happened to Patji the being--and how that relates to Patji the island.” There was a man named Patji, and something happened to him (something intentionally done by Autonomy, as we know per WoB 4, so something that occurred after the Shattering), and then we wound up with the island of Patji (which is the avatar). This leads me to believe that an avatar is a combination of two things. There is a Physicalmanifestation of Shardic power (something specific, like an island or an individual) using Cognitive residue from a deceased individual. A Mind Golem, of sorts. There are plenty of concepts, both in-Cosmere and otherwise, of something inhabiting a dead person’s body. Like a Lifeless. I think an avatar uses a dead person’s mind to guide its personality as it is created. This is somewhat discussed in WoB 5, about how it’s difficult to Ascend to an avatar because it already has a personality. It doesn’t already have a Vessel; the Investiture manifestation itself has an inherent personality, sort of like a spren. But it needs a real person for its formation; it’s not a personality that spontaneously manifests. So there was a real person named Patji who knew Hoid, and later died on First of the Sun and was made into an Avatar by Autonomy. Anything beyond that would be out of the realm of theorization and into speculation, but I’ll throw two possibilities out. First, he could have been a Yolish individual (he does use Rayse’s name) who could have died conveniently on First of the Sun or been sent there directly by Bavadin. Second, he could have been a Taldain native (like Trell, who’s next up) who was sent out by Bavadin, and Hoid met him either on Taldain or very early on in Patji’s worldhopping career. Trell Trell, from Mistborn, is widely considered to be an Avatar of Autonomy, in large part because of the presence of an individual named Trell in White Sand, the chronologically earliest post-Shattering story, and Autonomy’s “interference with other planets” mentioned in Khriss’s Taldain Essay. And these two clues could fit with the same vein as Patji: Trell was a dude on Taldain, Bavadin recruited him to go off-world and die, but in dying he lent his mind to the creation of an avatar. If he is indeed an avatar, I’m not quite sure how Trell manifests. (Remember, according to the Wikipedia quotes listed above, an avatar makes a “material appearance,” so not just chilling in the Spiritual Realm like a mini-Shard.) Patji manifests as an island. We do have the Thousand Eyes of Trell. And Harmony’s portrayal of him as a red mist. And the red stars forming The Scar in the constellation chart. So maybe Trell literally manifests in stars? But he appears to be Investing on Scadrial specifically, as evidenced by the function of his god metal in Hemalurgy, so I’d expect him to have a manifestation specific to Scadrial. I’m gonna hold off on trying to conclude anything about Trell until Wax and Wayne are finished, at least. [This comment has been removed.] Stormfather Now I’m gonna go a little deeper in the murky depths of theorization. The Stormfather has always been an odd cookie; is he a Sliver, is a Splinter, is he a Cognitive Shadow? He’s referred to himself as some variation of all three. There have been a lot of WoBs on the subject ([A], [ B], [C], [D], [E], [F], [G], [H], [ I], in no particular order, and maybe with an accidental repeat in there). I think an avatar, especially an avatar created from the Cognitive Shadow of a Vessel, can classify as all three, so the lines of terminology get muddled, which causes a lot of this confusion. There are two key WoBs from that list that lead me to suspect the Stormfather is an avatar. First is that the Stormfather has “absorbed” something that made him basically Honor’s Cognitive Shadow [ I]. Second, that the Stormfather was intentionally created by Honor [C]. So he’s a post-Shattering creation (even though the Highstorms themselves predate the Shattering [J]). This is what we see the Stormfather discuss in Oathbringer Chapter 113: So, we learn that Honor did something to create the modern Stormfather around the time of the Recreance; but we also know that some form of the Stormfather predated the First Desolation, at the very least, from Words of Radiance interlude 5 (appropriately called the Rider of Storms): So, we have a latter transformation, where it seems the Stormfather absorbed Honor’s Cognitive Shadow, consuming part of his mental framework (Mind Golem) into his personality. But by calling it a “latter transformation,” I’m implying that there was a former transformation, one where the highstorm absorbed a mind to become more than just a storm. I think the former transformation is told in the story of Fleet. It’s a passage I’ve tried to crack unsuccessfully before. I won’t post the entire song, but selections that seem significant. (In reverse chronological order, but that’s just what works best from a flow of thought.) The ending screams “Cognitive Shadow” to me, one tied to the Investiture of the highstorms. I’m thinking now that his mind was used to create an avatar with the physical manifestation of the Investiture that was the existing highstorm. The God of Storms is not mentioned against through the story. There’s no personification of the storm throughout the race itself. I think the God of Storms is Honor, and this is indicating he was active and aware, preparing to create an avatar during the sequence. This is Hoid singing, so the events of Fleet’s story happened during his lifetime. The timelines fit; Chan-a-rach came from Ashyn, which was destroyed after Odium’s arrival, so Hoid could definitely have been around for it. The end of the story refers to the land of “dirt and soil,” so another indication that it was after humans came from Ashyn. But, if the Stormfather betrayed the singers, then this must have been before the First Desolation. And, if that’s the case, Fleet might not even be a human; he might have been a singer! The song refers to Alethkar and Azir, nations that didn’t exist until recently (in the grand scheme of things), so of course those weren’t the literal names of the locations while the story of Fleet was occurring. But if it was before the human expansion and invasion, then maybe this was a singer who did all this through singer territory? That would add an additional note of betrayal to the Stormfather’s actions. But the singers should have known better than to approach him by relying upon presumption of past relationship. The avatar still needed guiding and shaping by Honor, and who knows what else may have occurred during the events of the First Desolation. I get the sense there are more secrets incoming in the next few books that informed a lot of actions throughout Roshar’s history. Oh, one last thought before I go, on the sense of physical manifestations. The Stormfather didn’t appear in the Cognitive Realm when a highstorm passed by in Oathbringer when the gang was in Shadesmar. He appears to be limited to the Physical Realm, although he is pretty omnipresent in a Spiritual Realm sense. That fits the definition of avatar I’ve been using, as a physical manifestation. Nightwatcher The Nightwatcher is referred to as an avatar by Evi. Is it the same technical cosmere term that’s applied to Patji and the being on Obrodai? Sure, why not! But in all seriousness, I think the Nightwatcher would fit the definition of an avatar, as well. She is also a physical manifestation, the creeping mist that lives in one spot. She’s still learning; Cultivation lets her hold court to “understand” humans. This fits with the Stormfather ‘growing up’ so to speak, and also with the avatar on Obrodai who is beginning to manifest and had her personality guided. That’s always struck me as odd, why the Nightwatcher has been around so long (it’s called the Old Magic, after all), but is still working on understanding people. Maybe she wasn’t guided as an avatar until recently, and she was just a less mindless manifestation. (More on that in the next section.) The Unmade Truth be told, the Unmade weren’t even on my mind as a candidate when I sat down to write this theory. But as I’ve been putting words to the page and pulling together sources, I have no choice but to consider them, and they do fit with a lot of the concepts I’ve been attributing to avatars. We know there’s a parallel between Stormfather, Nightwatcher, and the Unmade [ B]. If the first two are avatars, then so are the rest. Which is what, specifically, was Unmade – nine individuals whose minds were taken and used to create the Unmade, but were never properly developed to make them all fully sentient. Or maybe they had been developed as personalities, and then they were undone at some point. They also fit the physical manifestation element of an avatar – we haven’t seen them lurking in the Cognitive Realm (although we did see their presence there in Kholinar and Thaylen city), they’ve always been in the Physical Realm as well. Even Yelig-nar had a gemstone, which I think is his physical manifestation. This ties the Unmade to Roshar specifically, which is why I think they stayed behind on Roshar after the Last Desolation when the Fused and the Voidspren all returned to Braize. They are a different phenomenon that is tied to Odium’s Investiture on Roshar, not a Splinter tied to Braize like the rest. The Sibling And logic follows that the third Bondsmith spren would also be an avatar. But if an avatar is a manifestation of a Shard… then which Shard? Honor and Cultivation already have their big avatars, Odium has his smaller avatars. I don’t think that we can have an avatar of multiple Shards simultaneously – these are manifestations of the Shard, not an external Splinter like the spren. Maybe Honor or Cultivation has two? Maybe Re-shephir isn’t the first Unmade to switch sides (the mysterious Tenth Unmade that got hinted at in epigraphs)? Maybe there’s an off-world Shard that was like, “Sure, I’ll drop an avatar,” and we’ll get a Letter from that Shard in one of the next two books saying “I already gave you an avatar to help, how’d that turn out for you?” For the physical manifestation, I’m leaning towards the gemstone pillar as being the Sibling’s manifestation. It’s slumbering, so the gemstones are off. This also kind of fits the three kinds of gods in the Horneater myths (trees = Nightwatcher, waters = Stormfather, mountains = Sibling) and the three gods in the Elia Stele (spren = Nightwatcher, stone = Sibling, wind = Stormfather). The Sibling is physically manifested in the rocks, perhaps specifically in gemstones. Perpendicularities I’ll take a break from specific avatars because I need to introduce another concept before I get to the next one. Avatars have perpendicularities; we know there’s one on First of the Sun, and there must be one on Obrodai as well (since Hoid was told not to go back there, and as far as we’ve seen, he still needs to use perpendicularities to transition between realms). I’m wondering if Trell has a perpendicularity on Scadrial, which is how he gets his agents on-world. Trell is Invested enough on Scadrial for his metal to function in Hemalurgy, so maybe he’s Invested enough to have a perpendicularity, as well. The perpendicularity situation on Scadrial is a little puzzling, in and of itself; ettmetal manifests in the South, and god metals have been shown to manifest near perpendicularities (lerasium by the Well of Ascension and atium by the Pits of Hathsin). But the Shadows of Self broadsheets include a Southerner using a perpendicularity in the Northern mountains. Does Harmony have two perpendicularities? Is there no useable perp near the ettmetal source, so they have to use the one in the North? Is the mountain pool actually Trell’s perp, and the Masked Figure is one of Trell’s agents (ooh, one of Trell’s kandra) sneaking in so he can make his way to the South? Lots of possibilities. [This comment has been removed.] The Stormfather manfiests “Honor’s perpendicularity.” Cultivation’s is in the Horneater Peaks (which kind of throws off my assigning the Sibling to the mountains and Nightwatcher to the trees, especially when the perpendicularities lie in the waters that I’ve assigned to the Stormfather), which is pretty far from the Nightwatcher, but it’s possible the two are still associated. And I’ve long thought we had one in the Purelake, as well, and that Hoid’s “false trail” he laid out for the Seventeenth Shard was that he had managed to use the Purelake perp. There only appear to be two functioning perpendicularities during the events of Oathbringer (since they had to rely on either Honor’s perp or Cultivation’s perp), so… maybe the Sibling’s slumber has deactivated the perp? And Hoid tricked the Sharders into thinking he’d managed to use it somehow anyways? We’re getting pretty far afield here, especially since I don’t think an avatar needs a perpendicularity (or else Odium would have nine perpendicularities, one for each Unmade.) But that Purelake bit still sticks in my craw, so I’ll dig it back up every once in a while. Sand Lord Back to potential avatars. This is quite obviously a manifestation of Autonomy on Taldain; I think it may be an avatar, not the Shard herself. I’m tying this in to the perpendicularity logic above (which is why I had to throw it there awkwardly in the middle), and maybe the way she closed her perpendicularity on Taldain was by destroying, disabling, or doing something else nasty to this avatar. Austre Austre, the God of Colors, is who the Idrians believe created Nalthis and sends the Returned. It’s interesting that Brandon has confirmed that Austre is not Endowment [K]. One option is that Austre is Adonalsium, and they have enough holdover belief from that time. I don’t think that gels with the Idrian doctrine and Awakening being heresy, and also it has nothing to do with avatars, so I’m not gonna devote a ton of time here, even though it may very well be the more plausible of the options. I’m gonna instead make Sand Lord parallels; both of them wish to stop the use of magic. That’s making me think of Autonomy, and maybe Austre is another one of Bavadin’s avatars. Or maybe Austre is one of Endowment’s avatars? A specific agent who Returns? (But Brandon volunteers that Endowment is the one behind who Returns [L], so where would Austre even fit in?) I don’t have any clue of a physical manifestation for Austre. Warbreaker 2 is going to be even farther off than Wax and Wayne 4, and I’ve already made my thoughts clear on that. But Austre is one of the last candidates I can think of for being an avatar. Skathan Another kick-the-tires idea, the Emperor on Darkside. Autonomy could have another avatar working on Darkside. Working off the prose, he’s said to have powers to “speak and force people to obey him,” and he doesn’t age. Maybe he’s just a Lord Ruler-like individual who gained power. I don’t think we’ve seen him make a claim to deity. So, I’m not even convincing myself that he’s an avatar, but there’s no harm in mentioning him in the list of potentials. The Fell Twins Aether of Night spoilers below: Magic Systems I don’t have a ton of conclusions to make about how avatars interact with magic systems. Some, like Patji, manifest their own. Others, like the Rosharan avatars, interact with an existing Shard’s magic system. Which makes sense with an avatar as an extension of the Shard, and not a distinct being. Honor has already Invested in Roshar, so creating an avatar that’s also Invested in Roshar doesn’t change anything. I assume Obrodai has some new magic. (Kite magic, perhaps [M]? Although Brandon was developing that in 2019, so that may not have existed when Oathbringer was published.) Maybe the Sand Lord is responsible for sand mastery. We’ve seen the sand on Roshar, but have we actually seen anyone using sand mastery off of Taldain in the modern era? (Since there’s no real magic on Darkside, maybe that’s a sign there’s no avatar there). But if a world already has magic systems, perhaps a new avatar just fits into them, regardless of what Shard it’s of. So Trell joins the Metallic Arts (Brandon hasn’t even considered adding a fourth [N]). Austre, if he is an avatar of an off-world Shard, fits in with Breath somehow. And the Unmade can be bonded to form a Bondsmith, which is why going beyond three was seen as “seditious,” since it required one of Odium’s avatars. This makes sense more from a narrative sense than a realmatic sense; you only need new magic if there’s no old magic there to piggyback off of. But that’s how a lot of these things seem to go, and we’ll have a small enough sample size that I’m sure someone will be able to fit it into some sort of a framework in the end. In Conclusion. I’m pushing 5000 words, so I’ll summarize my main points: An avatar is a physical manifestation of a Shard that derives its personality from the mind of a deceased individual. Avatars can create new magic systems and new perpendicularities on the planets they are Invested on, but they do not have to if they Shard or another Shard has already Invested on that world. Patji was a being Hoid knew before he (Patji) became an avatar. Trell is an avatar of Autonomy who will be made from the individual appearing in White Sand. The three Bondsmith spren and the Unmade are avatars on Roshar. There are a couple other beings through the cosmere who may be avatars, but I don't have much confidence at all in that list, and am more presenting it for the sake of thoroughness.

In Vorin cultures music is seen as feminine. Not as exclusively so as reading and writing, people aren't excessively scandalized to see Hoid with his flute after all. But the vast majority of musicians in Vorin lands are female. This does fit with the general feel of what arts are supposed to be masculine and feminine but it presents a problem. Most musical instruments require two hands to play, I cannot picture anyone being able to play a harp for instance with one hand covered in cloth, even if they are simply wearing a glove. Some instruments one could manage to play gloved if one practiced that way, for instance the Organ, Piano, Harpsichord and the like. A Hurdy Gurdy is an instrument operated by pressing keys with one hand and working a crank with the other, I could see a Vorin woman playing one of those. One could play a bowed instrument such as a Violin, Viola, or Cello left handed, that is, operating the bow with the covered left hand and the strings with the right, but this would take a lot of extra practice.I am not familiar enough with the woodwind family to say how practical playing a flute while gloved would be, if anyone can shed light of this then by all means do so. I could also see special musical gloves being made for female musicians, designed to make it easier to play certain instruments. One other solution to the modesty problem is to have the musicians obscured behind a curtain while they play, invisible to onlookers. I could also see Vorin instruments being made with special vales attached to obscure the left hand while playing. Does anyone have any more ideas for what kinds of instruments would be practical for Vorin women to play?

I was doing a re-listen of Oathbringer and noticed something I haven’t seen spoken of on the forums yet. When the special ops team storms the palace of Kholinar, they free some guards who had been locked away in a room. The guard claim that only a few days had passed and that they had only been fed around three times. However, the guards had been in there for weeks, had grown large beards, and by all accounts should have starved to death or become sick from their living conditions. The guards were in fighting condition, seemed lucid and sane, and were shocked to discover how much time had passed. So what gives? The weirdest thing is that the men reached down and were shocked to discover that they now had long beards (proving how much time had occurred). What isn't clear is if these men were simply unaware of their beard while in the dark room (seems odd but okay), or if those beard grew quickly once the door was opened. A connected oddity is Shallan seeing healthy looking food swarming in rot spren. The food should have wasted away but it had remained in tact. I assumed the food was tainted in some other way, but what if time was acting oddly and the food had not yet realized it was rotten in the physical realm quite yet? Similar to how the men hadn't realized they'd grown beards while trapped in the room? I wonder if the Heart of the Revel has the ability to preserve and protect anything within a certain radius. It might accomplish this by slowing down time in a unique way, or at least the perception of time in the cognitive realm? I am not sure how to consolidate the experience of 3 days with the growth of a beard for three weeks. Anyone have any thoughts?

I'm trying to imagine Lighteyes like Jasnah looking very proper while using a slide whistle... For stringed instruments, even if you used your freehand to pluck, it would be very hard to press down the strings with your safehand without muting them. If you used a your safehand (and a pick) to pluck then there would probably still be the same problem. (Since a havah, which a proper lighteyes would wear, has very long sleeves) First post, yay!

Hi! I'll sign up! Edit: as Azkaban Smedry. The Harry Potter Universe equivalent of Alcatraz. This should he fun because I havent read the Alcatraz series yet, and I havent read the HP books since they came out, and I havent even watched any HP movies in over a year.

Hi all! I'm Luke and I live in Maine, USA! I'm originally from Manchester, England and have been living in the US for around 5 years. I have quite a few hobbies ranging from making videos for my YouTube channel, to gaming, and more recently obsessing over the Cosmere. I've been reading The Way of Kings (About 3/4 the way done) and I am completely obsessed. I read the first Mistborn book a long time ago and never really got into it. Probably going to reread it after this amazing book. I'm excited to join the community!

Her shadow is specifically moving towards the source of light rather than away from it like it should be. We know that Siah Aimians have shadows that behave the same way. Brandon has confirmed that they're happening for the same reason:

I'll sign up.

Oathbringer

Most definitely. I can only remember one instance in the books when women wore fingerless gloves, and it was at a disreputable bar. Pretty sure it was during a Szeth interlude in WoK. So I imagine it's the equivalent of a showing a lot of cleavage. Probably not proper during concerts or what not.

Pokemon

Szeth: former critic now most Zealous minister.

Every now and again, you just need the voice actor of Claude Von Riegen to play some classical music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf-B-p0ygt0

Under normal circumstances the Command used is what determines the amount of Breaths to be used in the effect, and unlike Allomancy the breaths are not normally burned up. That being the case, the way I see it there are several possibilities: They get a massive Burst-like increase to their Heightenings, but in doing they expend/use-up/lose all their breaths, leaving them a Drab. Same as above but it doesnt burn their own native Breath. It only works while they are actively Awakening something, and forces them to include ALL their breaths whether the Command would call for it or not. This Might cause some sort of Increased effect of the Command, or it could just be a pure waste. Tactically that could still be useful, if you hit somebody with it while they were making a Lifeless they'd loose all their breaths and be unable to reclaim them from the identity lock. It might make some sort of super-Invested Lifeless at the same time (Im assuming they'd be using the 1-Breath version of the Command). It doesnt affect the use/flow of Breaths at all (they remain usable and recoverable), but it does cause a Burst that drains all available Color in the Area, preventing further awakening.

I did chaotic good, as that's what he becomes by the end of Era 1 and pre-Era 2. But usually I'd say he's chaotic neutral. Kelsier doesn't really care about rules, regulations, or morality. He makes people better, but that doesn't mean he himself is good. He's not evil per-se, but I don't think he'd have a problem siding with evil for the short term (so long as he can con said evil later on and make them pay). I guess he's more like BBC's Sherlock in the first few seasons. He's "on the side of angels" but never mistake him for being one.

How about Chaotic Awesome? As evidence: For bonus points, the word is morality-neutral since 'Awesome' in its original meaning described something that inspires wonder or terror. Either can work for Kelsier depending on what he's doing and who's describing it.

I’m no economist, but I am interested in the amount of money I can get from loose cloth in my tum. So I want to know, how much would belly button lint make you? I do need to know the context in which the quote was said. It said something like “and don’t get me started on the economics of belly button lint” I forgot what he was talking about at first, but there is implications that the belly button lint is worth more than that thing. Do you think we could find the worth of belly button lint?

Hi all! My brother wanted me to start listening to the Revolutions podcast but somewhere in the process of looking that up I stumbled across the Shardcast; I have yet to learn a thing about revolutions, but I'm putting a lot more of the cosmere together than I had realized before. Thanks :-) Looking forward to digging in to this site as I finish Mistborn, reread Oathbringer, start on Elantris, etc!

Ooh, that is interesting! I did not know about it! The Traveller is Hoid. Is he back on Yolen, which is all white? The soot clearly means he's just back from Era-1 Scadrial, as does the comment about Ati and Leras dying. Could the guy he's talking to be Frost? "You sly old lizard!" So Hoid has likely two motivations - "to restore what he has lost" (something probably impossible) and a vendetta (against Rayse?). Restoring what he's lost involves some place... which isn't named. He also thinks what Ati nearly did (nearly destroyed a planet?) gives weight to his vendetta (because if Odium has his way, things will be way worse?)

Stormlight glows not because it's a plasma but for the same reason that metal glows in the Cogntive Realm on Scadrial: The Investiture trying to flow through from the Spiritual Realm casues it to glow.

Fingerless gloves are usually worn by females of ill repute.

Brandon once said Nightblood is comparable to a spren: He also said spren cannot become vessels for Shards: Going by these, the answer is most likely no.

Happy Birthday!

@ftl, you might enjoy this if you haven't already found it yet:

"You can leave them with the construct." Voidus replied, waving a hand towards the Aonic figure. "I can collect them from the barrier another time." The glowing figure gave another respectful bow towards them both, silently confirming its assent. "It will also be able to take you safely back to where you entered." Voidus continued. "And will be available at the barrier should you have need of it in the future. People tend to stay away from there, so it's usually quiet but it can also move some distance as long as it's still within the city." The construct gave another nod, turning its featureless head towards Temeria. One Aon shined brightly from within its body, Aon Tia separated from its surroundings and grew larger as it moved towards the constructs hand which it slowly extended outwards in an offer. "Whenever you are ready." The construct politely intoned. "I can transport us to the city and answer any further questions you may have there." "My thanks once again for your assistance and your time." Voidus said, giving one final nod of his head to Temeria.

Triangle. Also as a oboist who trys to wear a safe glove, it is impossible to play with a normal glove on. This is also true for most wind instrument, gloves are just constricting. I think this would be even worse with their safehand sleeve. But triangle would work. And slide whistle

Welcome!

So first and foremost, totally feel how you feel regarding the book. It didn't work for you, and that is fine. Just responding for informational purposes to some parts, and others just my own opinion/interpretation Shallan did question Jasnah on her survival. Shallan asked her how Jasnah survived, and Jasnah said that well she is an elsecaller. Shallan replied with snark that oh of course that makes so much sense when she knows nothing of what elsecallers are capable of. Jasnah apologized, and then explained. In the beginning Shallan demonstrates her curiosity in the murder mystery, tracking the mysterious figure that duplicates murders. She maintains her curiosity in exploring her abilities (learning that she can tie an illusion to a gemstone, reducing the stormlight cost, and vastly increasing the illusions length of time). In Kholinar Shallan tests the corrupted spren by embarrassing herself and hurting herself to observe what the changed spren look like. She is curious about Sja-anat and attempts to make contact. For myself all those things maintain her curiosity. As others have said, Odium is concerned that Dalinar is ascending which could mean Cultivation and Dalinar could jump Odium outnumbering him. As on my own thoughts on Oathbringer. I enjoyed it. To me it had some wonderful scenes, and I cannot wait for book four!

Shallan realizes when Jasnah makes her appearance that she did not actually see Jasnah's body during part of her escape. Additionally Shallan is somewhat naive and this hypothetical impostor had Jasnah's manner and intelligence down cold in a way that would be extraordinarily difficult to fake. Finally during their first meeting Jasnah references a conversation that they had in private quite some time ago. She is undergoing a period of depression and there is quite a bit of pressure on her. Under those circumstances I think curiosity is one of the first things to go. Dalinar is ascending at that moment. He is basically getting a massive power up on the spiritual level. His soul is expanded. Also it is not really like Odium was hitting him with less power. The actual damage to Dalinar's mind came just from viewing him for a second or so. It was less about power and more about how he approached that kind of information and the length of exposure. You cannot' have my pain! Dalinar going to fight an evil army with a book. Lift being rescued by Szeth. Elhokar trying to swear the oath. Gavinor with his little Kholin doll(excuse me action figure)...

Regarding Dalinar at the Battle of Thaylen City, Odium said he "Ascended" and Dalinar said that Odium "seemed small" so looks like whatever happened was quite significant. We talk about that here on the Shard a lot actually. Yeah, I stayed up overnight reading Stormlight myself

there’s Kenton street in luthadel which is the name of the main character in white sands and trell on taldain and also a god on scadrial plus the fact that khriss is I world hopper

I think that's a reference to an old paraphrase that Hoid used feruchemy to know where he needs to be (as opposed to the same underlying mechanic of Fortune that F-Chromium uses) and it doesn't actually confirm or deny that Hoid can use atium. His response wasn't even about atium specifically but 'I never confirmed Hoid has feruchemy' more generally so I'm not sure if we should read too much into the apparent non-contradiction. My guess is that if there's anything to this topic vis a vis lerasium mistborn, Connection and atium, it's something he's going to give us only in response to a direct question about godmetals, or if at some point it becomes relevant to a future book.

52% second draft!

So I don’t usually post on this thread because I don’t feel like I’m all that good at consoling people, but this issue is one that’s close to me. Jay, you are not a number. I know you probably know that, but that’s something I have to keep reminding myself all the time. I was a basically a straight A student all through school. When I got my first B+, it was actually crushing. So much so that most people would find it ridiculous how bad I felt. I actually had to hold back tears in class. And then I felt so stupid afterwards. I knew that there were so many people who would be overjoyed with my grades, which made me feel even worse about how I felt. But your feelings are valid. It’s okay to feel bad about it, at least for a little while. When you’ve held onto a 4.0 GPA for so long, loosing it just feels... wrong. But when you’re ready to move on, when you’ve accepted it, you’ll be stronger for it. Your worth isn’t defined by a number, or a letter, and don’t ever let anyone tell you otherwise. If you’ve tried your hardest, then that is more than enough.

Ah, one thing I forgot to add in my original post: More exploration of Adolin and Renarin’s relationship. They’re brothers but I feel like in the earlier books we haven’t really seen them meaningfully interact much. And I want to see more about Jasnah and Renarin’s relationship, especially after Oathbringer’s climax. And Adolin and Jasnah, and how the Kholins react to Elhokar’s death. Except since we have a timeskip, but the time we reunite with these characters they’ve probably already accepted it and moved on. This is more of a personal thing, but I feel that Oathbringer was more focused on plot instead of character interaction, which as a reader left me a bit unsatisfied, so I’m hoping Stormlight 4 delivers on that part.

I honestly feel kinda bad posting this after Luna because her problem is so serious and mine is just my petty self. So a month ago I tried out for this solo. Every year our school holds a massive Variety Show and there's only one solo in it. Our middle school is 7-9th and they always give it to a 9th grader. I'm in 9th grade this year and I really thought I would get the solo. I sang Journey To The Past and my audition went super well. There were three other ninth graders that tried out for it. Two didn't stand a chance, but the other one was really good. I still thought I'd get it though because every time I've heard her sing, she's kinda quiet and not very expressive. Well, they posted the results the day before break and guess what, I didn't get it. I really, really thought I was going to get it and not getting it was really quite crushing. And yet... it wasn't. I spent the latter half of that school day trembling, my stomach literally hurting because I was so nervous for those results. I expected to get it though. And then when I didn't see my name on the list, I just kinda... died a little bit. My stomach stopped hurting, I stopped trembling; I just felt dead. Part of what hurts so much is that I expected to get it. And now that I haven't got it, I feel like there's something wrong with me and I'm really paranoid about what I did wrong. Was there something I could have done in my audition that would have made me get it? What do I lack? What was it specifically that made it so that I can't sing up there this February - something I have fantasized about since 7th grade? I've spent my entire life being told that I'm a good singer, but now I'm doubting all of that. I'm kinda full of myself. I have a tendency to think of myself as above other people. It's kind of a problem. But the thing is, I recognize that in myself and I really, really hate it. It's such a weird problem - I hate myself for loving myself too much. And now, with this happening, it's gotten worse. I think of myself at the best. And if I'm not, then I must just be awful. Every failure stings, but this one is really big and I don't really know what to do about it. So.... I don't know. I thought I had gotten over it over break, but at school today in choir, my stomach started hurting again and I nearly started crying because I just don't want to sing anymore. Part of it is that we have a new choir teacher and he's not nearly as good as our old one. So I suppose a lot of this can be contributed to me missing her. Anyway, thanks for reading through this, it's been eating at me for weeks. And for anyone wanting to know what I sound like, here's me singing Ocean Eyes. (I'm a soprano, so my low notes don't come out perfectly, but it sounds really good over all) New_Recording_2.mp3

I think Renarin needs a hug. That's my sole hope for Stormlight 4. I'm just along for the ride.

I think that in Stormlight 4 or 5, a group of people are going to sail Rysn’s ship, Wandersail, to the Origin and discover something there. It’s crazy, but I feel like I’m the past books the mysterious Origin is mentioned a lot. I feel like it might be foreshadowing for the later books. We know that Rysn is going to be appearing more later on and now she owns a ship called the Wandersail. In Wit’s story he mentions that the Wandersail set out to find the Origin. I think maybe Rysn or someone is going to try again.

Except science has no bearing on cuteness as cuteness is an emotion felt by humans and science can not generally account for subjective individual feelings. Additionally things shaped like infants are generally regarded as humans as cute regardless of how helpless they are. Also are you telling me that every time you call your girlfriend cute you are saying she is helpless?

The Stranger's head emerged from a nearby garbage can, a banana peel on it. "Is the coast clear? I just burned every chair I owned." He waited a moment to be safe, then stepped out of the trash, dusting himself off. He looked to his two compatriots, shaking his head. "HR showed up without so much as a warning. We've never been able to determine their place of origin or how they even got here. One thing is for sure though, they fear nothing. Not death nor pain can stop them, they are immovable in their pursuit of efficacy." He turned towards the building and assessed the investiture signatures within, identifying those present. He listened to the conversation for a moment, then said, "Doesn't sound like anything important is being discussed, should we head in or wait a moment? Also, should we all enter at once, or stagger our arrivals? We don't want to cause any heart attacks at the moment."

Voidus' eyes widened with realization and a touch of what may have been fear. There were very few things that would prompt Voidus to take action on something, the imminent destruction of the world might do it if he was feeling motivated. But one thing always worked, there was one situation that would never fail to cause him to expend any of his not inconsiderable resources in order to avoid. A meeting with HR. "Yep. Chairs." Voidus began to say, mind whirling to try to find a way out. "You know, while you're hear, I heard something about a large blood spill-" He cut himself off mid excuse, remembering that he'd already used that one. "Sorry, what I meant to say was that I think there's a lab somewhere in Alley 249 that hasn't yet been set up to be ergonomically for its researchers. Could you look into that? It would be a terrible shame if someone had a repetitive strain injury due to an incorrectly set up workstation." His speech continued to speed up as he spoke, eyes constantly wandering and looking for a chance to escape. "Thanks for that, got to go." He quickly muttered as he purposefully strode past, Alleytravelling after Mac. The Guardian paused in its circuit, the only break in its regular rhythmic steps since they'd all entered. There was a faint whine of confusion as it regarded the happenings below it, but then it began to tread out its careful loop around once more. This time moving away from Cam from HR.

Until The Thing™ happened, I actually did like Moash (and was even hoping for a redemption arc). Then The Thing™ happened, and for all I care he can boil in cheese fondue for eternity. Except that would be a waste of cheese fondue, now that I think about it...

My favorite response to that is "No, my right hand is just on the other side of my body"

Gavinor's already weaned (also his mother is no longer with us), so if that one is about the future then it would have to be a younger baby.

Alright folks, *dusts self off* I'm here, and I've brought doodles and a caffeine-free root beer fountain machine, as requested. Here's my Rysn doodle: Here's my unfinished picture of Gallant, Dalinar's Ryshadium: And here's a random sketch of Vin and TenSoon I found in my sketchbook... I apologize for the awful picture quality. I was taking pictures of my drawings on my phone, so... yeah Anyway, thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Oaths of fealty...? Shouts of despair...?