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  1. Ok guys.. I have an out-there idea that I think Odium has been investing on all Planets that he goes to kill shards and he creates Cognitive Shadows by investing in them, imbibing them with hatred and uses them as his minions to help him in his fight against other shards.. So far, we know that Odium has visited Sel(where he killed Aona and Skai), Threnody system(which is the site of shardic altercation between odium and ambition) and right now, he is trapped on Roshar where he has already killed Tanavast and his shard has been shattered. On Roshar, Odium has created Fused that are cognitive shadows that do not pass on to the beyond when they die, instead they return and take up a new body and on and on it goes.. Some of these fused have lost their minds and most of them are so invested with Odium’s intent that they understand nothing but hatred towards human. Fused only wish to win this war and finally, be able to rest by passing onto beyond. Given that there are wobs that say that Odium has invested on all the planets he visited briefly to kill these shards like he has on the Rosharan System: I find it a great coincidence that Odium visited Threnody system and fought with Ambition here and we have Shades on Threnody which are actually people who die and can not pass onto the beyond. Their actions are also very odium-y. So, I think that it is a possibility that these shades are actually a result of an earlier version of the experiment that Odium did on Threnody which was later was greatly improved upon in Roshar. Further, on Sel also we have legends of Svarkiss which says that these are half ghost and half demons. Shu-dereth faith says that these are souls of men barred from entrance into heaven and are condemned to wander Sel, bitterly cursing their fate(very odium-y) and prey on humans. It is also believed that they have the ability to take over the body of living and control their actions, again very similar to how Fused work on Roshar. Although, I think that Odium withdrew his investiture from these Svarkiss and they no longer exist and are mere myth today in the Jaddeth Empire.. Just as he has promised The Fused that they will be allowed to pass on once they win. Millennia later, on Roshar, Fused also would be nothing more than such a myth.
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  2. Tleir hid in the chasm the whole night, barely daring to move. The Shardblade wound turned out to be a blessing, as she surely would have passed out from the pain hours ago if she retained sensation in her right leg. The stormwardens claimed there wouldn’t be a Highstorm tonight, but they could be wrong, or maybe the chasms would flood regardless. A chasmfiend could wander by and devour her with a single bite. The Shardbearer could return to slaughter her. Or perhaps a quiet night would pass, and somebody would come rescue her in the morning. Tleir chose to focus on that prospect. After all, she reminded herself, she was Mraize’s most valuable lieutenant, entrusted with a suit of Shardplate for the task of hunting down and killing the Shardbearer who had so recklessly attacked Highprince Sebarial. A lot of good Shardplate did sitting safely in the Ghostblood’s tent while she went for a walk. Foolish, foolish! She hadn’t even been able to identify their foe. Well, there was nothing to do now but wait. Either Nu Rallik would see fit that she survived, or he wouldn’t. Mraize pulled Tleir from the chasm, his arms aching with the effort. It was such a shame to have to do such a thing to one of their higher operatives. The woman had had such promise. She could still serve their sect, though no longer to the degree that a woman of her talents should have been able to. Perhaps working the ledgers. When you had a secret society, the accounting tended to get messy. He left her at the edge of the chasm, there still needed to be some punishment. Without suffering there would be no growth. She had to learn from the scenario, understand what her flaws were. He adjusted his mask as he left her, ensuring his anonymity. He retreated to the distance, a figure on the horizon. The morning finally arrived, and Tleir was still alive. Now, she couldn’t feel either of her legs, but that was alright because the Ghostbloods had seen fit to rescue her. She was still important to them, despite her failure. After carrying her out of the chasm, the masked Ghostblood melted away, leaving her alone. Tleir understood. Despite early successes, they couldn’t afford to confront the king openly. From here on, Tleir would have to ensure her own survival. Weakly, she called out to the guards now patrolling around the chasm. As they rushed to get her medical attention, Tleir smiled wickedly to herself. The Shardbearer would not be long for this world once she was reunited with her compatriots. Apparently, Vun Makak had different ideas. That tide-scorned Brightness Tintallë had continued her denunciations, but nobody else seemed to be listening to her, preferring to focus their ire on the sleeping Ekard. Then at the last second some sort of deformed cremling had leapt up and bitten at her shoulder. Shocked, Tleir fell backwards off the chair she’d been sitting on. As she tried and failed to sit up, she noticed that the Alethi were all staring at her, or more specifically the interlocking diamond pattern etched into her left shoulder where her havah had been bitten away. With one dead leg and the other severely bruised and cramped, Tleir could make no move to escape as Tintallë stabbed her through the heart. And as the Almighty GM reclined at table in the house, behold, many inactives and lurkers came and were reclining with the GM and his assistants. And when the Actives saw this, they said to his assistants, Why does your GM, a moderator, eat with lurkers and inactives? But when the Almighty GM heard it, he said, Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means: I desire mercy, and not filter deaths. For I came not to call the active and recurring, but the inactives. Blissfully unaware of the carnage and arguing which surrounded them, the Brightlords I.N. and Ekard dozed soundly in their tents, as they had for the past several days of deliberation. Perhaps the greater conflict between the Ghostbloods and Elhokar mattered...but then again...perhaps it didn’t. Getting a good day’s sleep was far more important than such trivial considerations, anyway, and it was easy enough to stay out of the conflict this way. High above, the Stormfather gazed disapprovingly down at the pair. It was truly a waste of air to have those two continue to exist in the midst of such violence and conflict; what right had they to live sleeping while so many of their friends died around them, actively joining the fighting? Irritably, he readied a pair of bolts to strike the pair down, then paused. Could it be that their apathy was unintentional, and that his plan was overly hasty? He would dishonour the men’s families for no good reason if this was the case, as lightning from heaven was a fairly ignoble way to end a man. He would spare them for now, but would return soon with the full force of the Highstorm. It would tear the men apart if they did not arouse themselves. Sart was lynched! He was a Ghostblood with Shardplate and an Alerter! Vote Count: Drake (2): Sart, Araris Sart (2): Elbereth, HH Elbereth (1): Stink Rath and Drake are on one-cycle warnings to either post, be replaced with pinch-hitters, or die. Night 3 has begun! It will end in approximately 23 hours, on Tuesday 19 November at 9 PM EST. Those with spanreeds, once again, may send in orders to use them and then PM freely. Make sure all the GMs are in the PMs. Thank you, as always, to Devotary for her help with the writeup and with PMs. Please go upvote her for all the excellent work she’s doing. Edit: And Snip, who wrote the paragraph on Mraize. Good luck! Player List: 1. Elandera as Brightness Ellarel, a flighty scribe who nonetheless remains tethered to the ground Noble 2. Rathmaskal as Brightlord I.N., whose reversed name conceals his role as a secret member of the Knights of Ni 3. Butt Ad Venture as Brightness Hmynyes, a connoisseur of classical Vorin music Noble 4. Xinoehp512 as Brightlord Rashor, a man who determinedly believes that blue wine is a plague from the Voidbringers Thief 5. Araris Valerian as Brightlord Arilar, a recently arrived spy with ties to the Kholins 6. StrikerEZ as Brightlord Nalakor, a professional chull breeder and racer and close friend of the King’s Wit 7. Furamirionind as Brightness Dohila, a lighteyes who insists on wearing only orange and green lace Noble 8. Hemalurgic Headshot as Rat, a pet of Brightlord Joe and a secret worldhopper 9. Sart as Tleir, a Purelaker trying desperately to impersonate the missing Brightness Drella while House Sebarial hunts for her Ghostblood 10. STINK as Jumae III, a Brightlord whose eccentricity in fashion contrasts sharply with a docile and even temperament 11. DrakeMarshmallow as Brightlord Ekard, a man at the mercy of the Almighty Himself 12. Amanuensis as Brightlord Ularid Leiken, a man hunting a chull with a green shell which once insulted his mother 13. Coda as Brightness Dejda, one of Adolin’s former girlfriends who now hates the Kholins with a passion 14. Straw as Brightlord Straw, an effigy of Gavilar which was officially recognised as a lighteyes of the fourth dahn 15. Elbereth as Brightness Tintallë, whose title has come under charges of redundancy by expert Quenya scholars
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  3. Yep He probably does have more spikes than that one, that he uses as needed. But that's the only confirmed one, and it is confirmed to be holding his soul in that body.
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  4. The Bands were made by Kelsier, not by Vin or the Lord Ruler. Kelsier then went and put them up north for unknown reasons. Wax makes the mistaken assumption that the Sovereign was The Lord Ruler and wasn't contradicted at the time. But the facts match up to Kelsier, not the Lord Ruler. The spike in his eye is stapling his Cognitive Shadow to the body he's using. We don't know the exact mechanics of it, or how Kelsier figured it out/managed to get it to work, but that's the basic idea. Both of Marsh's eyes are spiked, Kelsier just has one spike. So they're not mirroring each other.
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  5. I guess you could say she ... made an arse of herself
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  6. I'm on the exact opposite side of the scale here. I am always in for a crappy joke in a bad situation and Lopen and Lift are 100% my cup of tea. Lopen flipping off the Stormfather with his spren? I love that. Lift commenting on Dalinar's butt? Majestic. (She might very well run for top 5 of my favourite SA characters.) I will not be fighting you on the fact that "no mating" Pattern is the peak of SA humor though
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  7. Excellent! You’re welcome to join the spectator docs of the two games currently running - PM me for the MR and @Fifth Scholar for the LG. The next game to go up for signups will be either a QF when the MR ends, or the next LG when the current one hits cycle 5. I’m not sure when the latter is, but the QF should be going up in about a week (maybe less) - I’m happy to ping you when that happens!
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  8. *** Please no spoilers beyond Misborn Era 1 *** Hello everyone! I preapologize for any typos, I'm waiting this on my phone. I just finished Hero of Ages. This is only my second fantasy series that I have finished but I really liked it. It's possible that I just missed something because I listened through the audiobooks so quickly, but I feel like there's some holes I am having trouble plugging related the Rashek and Ruin, and trying to make sense out of what the Lord Ruler did with the power of preservation and what he did near the end of the final empire. If you are able to shed some light on my questions, without including information from later books at all, that would be most helpful. I'm sure later books will help color and flesh out things further, but I just want the Misborn Era 1 understanding of what I feel like I'm missing. I'm sure I can find answers to all my questions if I searched hard enough, but searching while avoiding spoilers is completely impossible. So I humbly request the help of real people in this thread. I'm confused by a handful of things. Rashek is ultimately a good man per Sazed, but in the limited time he held the power he created extremely evil things (inquisitors which require slaughtering mistings and koloss which require killing 4 men each to make. Why would he have made these at all? It mentions he created the kondra as spies against Ruin... but he made inquisitors and koloss first. kondra were created last, and are still 1000 years old... So inquisitors and koloss were made immediately basically. But ruin didn't have control of him to do this or he wouldn't have made kondra how he did afterwards. If he tried so hard to breed feruchemy out of the population so no one would ever be a feruchemist and mistborn to challenge his power, why would he essentially create/enable/spread hemalurgy allowing people to do exactly that, become feruchemist and mistborn (like Marsh is revealed to be in hero of ages). That doesn't make sense. Rashek still seemed to believe he was keeping ruin from destroying the world up to his death "...what I do for you". But Rashek was doing some horrible stuff. He intentionally altered people to be highly reproductive slaves, he tortured and killed many people, he held public executions, etc. Was he supposedly just trying to create the most stable society possible so that he would still be alive and in power when the power returned to the well so he could right the wrongs best he could with 1000 years of experience? Sorry this isn't a concise question or two. I'm just trying to wrap my head around how the Lord Ruler and ruin interpolated in Mistborn era 1 since I must have missed something. The Lord Ruler is probably my favorite villian ever in fiction. The oppressive, heavy burden of dread and hopelessness he made me feel in book 1 was so awesome, and to find out the big reveal at the end made him super interesting to me as an arc. I just don't want to be ultimately soured on him as a character because I'm missing plot points I assume Sanderson answered in era 1 already. I probably have like 15 more questions, but this is already too long and winding. Thanks in advance for any help or clarification. I did just purchase A way of Kings, but that's a 47 hour audiobook and I want to mentally wrap up Mistborn before starting it. Thanks! TLDR: I don't get how Rashek is a "good man" but did all sorts of bad things (like create inquisitors and a permanent slave race) when he held the power, especially since he knew of Ruin and was supposedly trying to prevent him from destroying stuff. Please advise, and refer to my above ramblings for more specific questions I have about this. *** Please no spoilers beyond Misborn Era 1 ***
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  10. I don’t think that death rattle is referring to adonalsium’s Shattering at all but I still think that it is possible that some of the death rattles show past events.. like the one about “our homes become their homes” and “Why have you forsaken us almighty” there are few more. I think since these visions are fueled from spiritual realm where all time is one, retrocognition via death rattles should be possible. As to incidence of retro cognitive experiences, shallan has a few visions in words of radiance that might fit. For example the one about Shalash destroying her statue and the one about survivors from a ship wreck landing safely on shore.
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  11. The cycle is closed! Return in an hour or two to see the results. ...HH, you could at least text me to warn about last minute votes.
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  12. on the other hand, there is a HUGE difference between a book you're reading for fun and a book you're being forced to read and take a test over. YKYASFW you hear the song "I belong to you" and, when it hits the line "you're my gentle breeze", you think of Breeze. Every. Single. Time. You hear that song. And you think it's very fitting, as Breeze was indeed gentle once you could see past his crusty outside.
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  13. Vivica stood quietly, still smiling, and slid the pencil out from behind her ear. Bennington had moved back towards her, and he spun in lazy circles over her left shoulder as she began to take notes on her yellow notepad. Grey's mention of HR had brought back unpleasant memories from a few hours back, and she wanted to make sure that this process was documented thoroughly. Bennington began edging back towards Grey, but Vivica gave the octopus a warning look and a tiny shake of her head. Enthusiasm was all well and good, but it wouldn't do to interrupt someone in the middle of a sensitive procedure. She crooked a finger back towards herself, and Bennington swam back sulkily. Vivica couldn't blame him for being excited; they both got that way, when they really let go of the ropes. She hadn't felt so free in weeks. Her mind was a kite caught in a high breeze, and the string had spooled all the way out. The tether might snap at any moment - that's what made it exciting. The threat of true madness, looming like the Void right over her shoulder. It was enough to set a girl's every nerve on fire. Vivica was plenty mad already, of course, but she'd seen enough to know that she was only waist deep in the stuff. She looked up at Bennington, then back to her notepad. Maybe... chest deep, she admitted, continuing to scribble notes in shorthand, careful to document the changes in sound coming from the radio behind Grey. Vivica tried to keep her expression somewhere in the neighborhood of pleasant. She had a tendency to smile a bit too widely during an experiment.
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  14. Debatable. Having held a Shard, he'd likely know enough choose to avoid that second Spike, even assuming he trusts Harmony not to abuse the control it would grant.
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  15. But Kaladin overreacted and murdered them all, thinking they were going to steal his boots.
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  16. New to this forum, but I'm up for a game of any length, preferably with simple rules.
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  17. This is also evident with Shallan. She was able to access Shadesmar that first time by speaking a Truth and riding the boost of power, but Pattern later told her that if she wanted to do it again she'd have to progress and speak more Truths. I think each time a radiant swears a new Ideal and increases their Bond, there is a surge of power that is flavored by the actual Surges of their Order. So Bondsmiths and Windrunners get surges of raw Power because of the nature of their Surge(s), which Represent Connections themselves and are very close to Honor himself, whereas Lightweavers (and Id guess Elscallers and Truthwatchers) get a boost in Realmic Access because of their Transformation/Transportation capabilities. Random fun fact: we know of milestone events (surges, blades, squires, plate, etc) at each Ideal. But the only thing we know about the 5th is that the Spren say they have ways of severing the Bond until the 5th, but after that they cannot. This implies to me that the Bond somehow becomes "complete" at that point and if nothing else has likely reached maximum efficiency. I know this is a common complaint, but I personally dont see it as being anything more than circumstantial. The lesser spren are seen as animals by the sapient spren. Syl even mentions that her aunt (a Honorspren, no less) likes to hunt some kinds. That being the case, Plate could very easily be the spren-cultural equivalent of wearing Leather. Nobody would blink at a leather jacket, but you have a Human leather jacket and suddenly your are the plot of an Anthony Hopkins movie. I agree about there needing to be a Bond involved, but I could see it as being the spren equivalent of Squires. So Kaladin can create semi-temporary Bonds to other humans (Squires) at the 3rd, and if Im right Syl will be able to bond her Lesser spren in a similar fashion once they reach the 4th to facilitate the Plate.
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  18. We can infer that Odium has had magic associated with him on other Shardworlds from this WoB As well as the fact that Brandon always talks about him as not leaving behind any of his Investiture. A Shard's presence does naturally result in a way to access their Investiture by the inhabitants of their Shardworld. We have a confirmation that he didn't leave any of his Investiture on Sel So yeah, Svrakiss could have been something like the Fused on Roshar, that were fuelled by him and are now only myths since he left. As for the situation on Threnody, the Shades do seem to discourage Ambition: moving fast, starting a fire or drawing blood, making their actions seem contrary to the Intent of the Shard whose Investiture permeates them. I can definitely see links between the three.
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  19. NaNoWriMo - Day 17 GuyS I'm SloWLy dYiNg ovEr hErE. I WanT iT aLl tO eND. Anyways. Why I'm dying: 1.) I go through fazes where I can actually write half decently and where i can't really write at all. I'm not writing well right now. 2.) I've been staying up until midnight on weekends and 11 on weekdays and I'm exhausted. 3.) I like my own characters too much. I'm really proud of some of them, and I'm putting them through so much pain! 4.) Only 19,000 more words! (Still haven't missed a day)! 5.) I'm pretty much through with the outline I made for my story, and that's thrown me off a tad. As mentioned before, I have 19,000 words left. So what I'm doing is making my novel a collection of short stories and novellas based off of Grimm fairy tales with my original project as the main piece. So I'm trying to squeeze out another outline to go off of before I finish this one. Which will likely be in just a few hundred words. 6.) My laptop doesn't connect to the internet half the time, which is a real pain in the neck. 7.) I HAVE SO MUCH STUFF TO DO. (Including tKotC... Sorry, guys. I'll get there eventually). Well, thanks for reading this. You guys are great.
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  20. Apparently ya boi's a popular contributor this week.
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  21. Why are you treating this as some sort of logical fallacy? Of course you can assume your initial hypothesis is correct while discussing its ramifications. It's analogous to the scientific method, where you begin with an Observation (a potential connection between the Ire and Vax), formulate a Hypothesis (that Vax is a Vessel tied to the Ire), and design and perform Experimentation (looking at the texts and Wobs for support and/or ramifications). It's helpful to bring in new information. But there's no need to be insulting about it.
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  22. Mistborn spoilers: What do you call a candy that makes Inquisitors less angry?
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  23. I think I know what character I hate the most now: Gavilar. Seriously, there is just nothing likeable about that guy. Everytime that Navani, Jasnah or Dalinar think back to him and complain how much they miss him and how great a king he was, I always find myself gnashing my teeth and rolling my eyes. He was a man who decided to conquer his neighboring nations and unite them under his rule, without any real provocation. He watches with indifference as his brother succumbs to a drug-like bloodlust and doesn't care about his obvious mental instability. He marries a woman he doesn't really love that much, despite his brothers obvious attraction to her - he generally often treated Dalinar as his own personal attack dog, more as a tool than a family member. Even when he turns to philosophy and embraces the Way of Kings, he simultaneously also joins a sect of religious fanatics whose methods are in direct contrast to Nohadon's beliefs. I mean, he wants to bring back the desolations! And unlike Amaram, he probably saw the visions and what the desolations were like! He has everything that is bad about Amaram, without any of the sympathetic traits. His best friend? Torol Sadeas. Dalinar was Sadeas' friend back when he was a bloodthirsty psychopath - Gavilar doesn't have that excuse. Even Amaram disliked Sadeas. Gavilar tries to portray himself as a good and just ruler, while plotting to bring about the end of the world. He's a ruthless, fanatic and machiavellistic megalomaniac, just like Amaram, but at least Amaram had a conscience. Case in point: Remember the scene in OB where Gavilar happily celebrates that his brother seemingly killed the ruler of Rathalas, his wife and his seven-years-old son? Or the scene where he almost threw a tantrum because his brother hadn't really killed said seven-year old? At that point it went from simple dislike to just pure disgust.
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  24. From the album: The Longest Thread (Misadventures)

    This small little scene from page 625 of TLT is very simple, but also one of my favorites. For some reason, I've always loved the idea of carrying someone. The idea that someone is so weak that they can't do one of the first things they ever learned and are forced to rely on someone else to take them place to place. It's such a selfless act, such a beautiful one. Xino is prideful and power-hungry, yes, but he's also very kind-hearted and loyal when it comes down to it. Perhaps he's still trying to make up for having a hand in Marsh's eventual death, the same way Star is trying to make up for her villainy. What a nice parallel between our first two characters on CBST. I haven't drawn Xino as much because I don't have a good handle on his wardrobe and I didn't know what his face looked like for a really long time. So I think it's about time I start rectifying that.
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  25. ...well...um...‘twas all part of my master plan! Phar is still adorable!
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  26. I'm going with Kalak, mostly because of the same reasons the others have stated: we haven't seen most of the female Heralds but one of them is working for Mr. T, Nale and Ishar are against the human forces, and Ash and Taln might be too difficult to reach at the moment. That being said, I kinda like the idea that one of the interludes - if not the entire interlude through line - is one of the Heralds trying to escape Moash. Like a supernatural horror story or something.
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  27. I disagree Again Amaram has to be seen as the hero. He couldn't be seen as the hero who won the blade in that situation. So he had to be convinced (playing on his narcissism) that only he could be the one to fully use the blade, so again killing was ok. It was fine to kill all the darkeyes because only he could save the day with the blade. Would destroy anyone to see him being the savior. It is egotistical delusions of grandeur. Amaram is convincing himself that the heralds will return, validating himself. What is the point of all those people dying if there is no one to see him saving the day? I disagree. Basically you view him as wanting him to genuinely restore the religion for idealistic reasons, which would result in his seeming heel turn to come out of no where. I view him wanting to restore the religion as a tool for his ego. It is a means to an end. If someone told him throwing tomatoes at a house would be lauded as wonderful, because in the house is an evil person, Amaram would do so gladly. Not because it is an evil person, but because he would be lauded for it. If it is then revealed that the person in the house is not evil, but a harmless old man, then Amaram would regret his actions. Not because he genuinely feels bad for the man, but because his ego takes a hit. You do not cheer a man throwing a tomato at an innocent old man. So his jump to team Odium in that light makes sense. Otherwise why would he regret letting Kaladin live? Otherwise why would he attempt to attack Dalinar when he thought Dalinar was defenseless? Same with Jasnah. I disagree edit: actually to add I would argue that Amaram is more accurately a foil to Jasnah. Jasnah is seen as a egotistical, heretical, perfectionist that wants to corrupt the youth and bring down the pious vorin church. The reality is that Jasnah continually doubts herself, has no problem with various religions so long as they respect her own beliefs, admits her own faults, only wants people to question and find answers for themselves, and couldn't care less about the Vorin church except where it gets in her way of researching to stop the desolation which will cause untold numbers of death. Conversely Amaram is seen as humble, pious, man of the people, that everyone wants their kid to grow up to be, and wants to bring back the holy church. The reality is that Amaram will do whatever it takes to maintain that facade, use whatever belief system can validate his ego, never admit personal faults, wants people to just obey and fall in line, and is using the restoration of the church to stroke his own ego. The book says otherwise. Amaram rationalizes to Kaladin about how is it honorable to help the parshendi. But again, this is so he can be viewed as the hero. He is the reason so many people will die because of a false cause. Since there is no way to turn that around and make him a hero, he jumps to the other side, so he can call "look at me! I am saving the parsh!". Again, ego. Again, glory Not mistakes. That it was his fault. That the actions he took to feed his ego was all on him. His ego couldn't handle any evidence showing he is not the perfect hero. If anyone knows Amaram best, it would be Jasnah. We have numerous examples that show they have spent years side by side. It would be using Kelsier to evaluate Dockson. It would be using Dalinar to evaluate Sadeas. It would be Navani to evaluate Ialai. She is not obviously biased, she is obviously knowledgeable of the subject.
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  28. I just dont think this makes sense from what we know of Amaram. We know he cares. That is also made very clear in the books. He had to be talked into stealing the Blade. And when he did it, he did it for the greater good, which I think even Kaladin recognizes when he and Dalinar confront Amaram in WoR. And he is haunted by his crimes, and states his pain at the death of people in his letters to Restares, who he shouldn’t have to feig honor for. You are certainly right about that Amaram is in part motivated by selfishness and a wish for glory. But he is also motivated by genuinely wanting to bring Vorinism back to a people who is slowly losing it, and helping his country. There is evidence for both of these sides of him in the books, and I think both are correct. Amarams story is the story of a man who wants to be what he can’t become, because of his inability to beat his personal weakness, which is why he is a great foil to Dalinar. They are both men who have selfish drives, and heroic drives. The difference is that Dalinar ultimately fiund the strenght to be the hero. Amaram did not. He did not choose Odium for the glory. He chose Odium because he was unable to do what Dalinar did and accept his mistakes, and take the next step. Odium spent OB talking about taking peoples pain. Dalinar turned him down, but Amaram didn’t because he couldn’t live with the guilt. Finally, using Jasnah to evaluate Amaram feels like using Kelsier to evaluate a nobleman. She is obviously biased, which affects her objectivity.
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  29. Possible... Let's go back to what would need to happen in order for Shardplate to be made of lesser spren. There would need to be a Bond with the Radiant (or possibly the Nahel spren) as well as bonding with one another. The bond sworn by the Radiant might be temporary, re-sworn each time they wish to summon their plate or a general bond that simply makes them worthy of Shardplate which attracts the nearby secondary spren to form their plate or a specific bond to a specific group of lesser spren. From what we have seen of plate, they don't seem as alive as Shardblade, though that might be because they are not sapient, but also note that they should be dead, yet Shardplate reforms when broken.
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  30. Truly the pinnacle of humor. I can die easily now knowing I have seen true, artistically transcendent comedy. Amen brother! There’s never a bad time for potty humor. The more the better. Seriously though, @Toaster Retribution, I’ve never been bothered by any slackening of tension their jokes cause. I never felt that any of their jokes withdrew from suspense that much anyways. Lopens shenanigans at the end of OB occurred after the climax, so if it was going to occur anywhere, that’s the place for it. And Lifts comments to Dalinar always felt short and self contained enough that they didn’t impact suspense or the tone for very long. I get if they’re not you’re taste though. Also, <3 Amaram.
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  31. Wait, Amaram is a favorite of yours? I salute you, Mr Hat. I too have my problems with him in OB (he needed more page-time) but I wouldn’t mark it down as bad. I feel like their jokes sometimes kills suspense, or comes at the expense of the story. Like Lopen randomly getting KR-powers at the end of OB and immediately start being rude to the Stormfather (who I actually think is funnier than Lopen). And Lifts interruption of Odiums and Dalinars first meeting to talk about butts was just... no. They have their moments, but Brandon could easily cut 20-30% of their comedic stuff and the books would benefit from it. I know a lot of people thinks Shallans jokes dont land, but she is comedic gold compared to Lopen and Lift in my opinion. And the funniest Stormlight character is Pattern, by far.
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  32. I think Amaram's arc was fine. He is well written, and a good villain. And he acted exactly how I would have expected him to act up until the last. OB was pretty bloated, and I think leaving Amaram in the background, but still very important, was a good call. I also am hoping we get some good Shallan in the OB. I really want to see her actually team up with Jasnah, like in early book 2. I also want to see her talk to Adolin, or someone, about her childhood. And actually have a conversation about it. I'm ready for her to move forward a little more than she has. Lift and Lopen are both great. I think anyone who doesn't like them, or at least tolerate them, is taking themselves and a fantasy series with magic crab people way too seriously. I'm just hoping that we don't get an angry, bitter, broken Lift in the back half. I want her to maintain the sort of optimism that she has.
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  33. Agreed. I was just throwing the idea out there. Assuming Liss is Chana, she seems awesome and badass and I’d be sad to see her die prematurely.
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  34. Ah, I see. I didn't really read it that way, myself. It reads to me more like he influenced some people, maybe used a little investiture on them, but not fully investing in any place.
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  35. Ok , so ambition was odiums first kill right. It was unplanned. He stumbled upon her whilst on the way to Sel ( We don't exactly how much after the Shattering this happened. It could have occured within a few days or years or decades ). We do know it was in the wake of the Shattering , so I guess at most it could be about a century or so after the Shattering. So Odium was still unused to the Shard's power and parts of him got ripped off along with ambitions and he saw thier effect on Threnody . Times moves differently for shards right , so he could have been in conflict with Uli Da for centuries . Enough time to see the effects of his investiture there. Then when he went to Sel. He used this new knowledge to create vicious shades , who helped him defeat DnD. Then he left the system and withdrew his investiture , leaving the shades to be pulled away into the Beyond. Later the humans who survived the desolation mythified odium as the great Other and the shades as his minions . Later on , these elements, including odium himself were forgotten in most regions but the shades were integrated into shu -dereth in the local parlance as the Svarkiss. Then he left for roshar and used a similar strategy for the Parshendi and is still using it. I'm interested in why there are still shades active on Threnody . Did a large part of him got ripped there ? Or did he manage to reclaim the parts leave behind only a miniscule amount which acts more of a trigger. Like maybe it's small pieces of odiums investiture that lead to the transition into a cognitive shadows but then it's Ambitions investiture that sustains it. This would be somewhat similar to what happened with kelsier. If it weren't for leras unwittingly giving away the location of his shardpool and he saturating himself with investiture by bathing in it for a year , he would never have become a CS. On Threnody , since the shard is dead and I believe the entire continent of Hell is saturated with Ambition's investiture , maybe souls can get lucky often and hit upon Odium investiture sparking then into becoming shades and then they can use Ambition's investiture to sustain themselves. An alternate explaination would be that odium and Ambition's investiture got fused together and the chunk infused the continent. Odium was unable to reclaim his investiture as it got melded. The intents melded together to have vengeance ( one interpretation of Ambition ) and blind hatred ( one interpretation of Odium ) as the goal of the CSs created from them. As for the Evil , I hold to my theory that it is the Shardic equivalent of a zombie or Onryō (怨霊 onryō, literally "vengeful spirit", sometimes rendered "wrathful spirit") . That it is Ambition ,nearly splintered and nearly mindless but still alive to an extent, bent on vengeance against Odium. Maybe vengeance is one interpretation of Ambition or maybe it's due to Odium's investiture melding to a larger extent with her.
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  36. Huh, I didn't see it that way. To note, I do think that lesser spren are involved in the process, just that the plates don't need to be made of them. Intriguing solution to bonding lesser spren for plate, I must say, and that is one of my main quibbles with that theory. That being said, what of Jasnah & Shallan's Thaylen City scene though? Where Adolin sees geometric patterns around Jasnah and Radiant turns out to be the real Shallan with possibly real plate? Where were the lesser spren? Also if plates are made of lesser spren, would they use different spren each time or use the same set of spren every time? So temporary bonds each time they form a plate or a few lesser spren also following them around? The former seems more likely with this theory... Strange questions crop up with this theory, I think Brandon is keeping plates away for this long for a reason and that they are not this straightforward. Also I do think that getting Shardplate would be more related to Nahel Bond than the system of Surgebinding itself since the Heralds don't seem to have Shardplate equivalent, do point out if I just missed it.
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  37. I got my physical copy in the mail. Got a chance to get a good look at the Farkept moons. (Or whatever the appropriate "Jovian" analogue term would be.) They do indeed have blue and green in the shape of continents, unlike the other gas giant moons on the other star charts (which are all monocolored). Other planets that share the same color scheme? The four inhabitable Drominad worlds. And Coronach, the named moon of Elegy in the Threnodite system (which has also been theorized to be habitable). Taking a close look at all the celestial bodies made me notice something else. Nearly all the planets and moons have a white ring around them. I assumed it was the same as the white behind any of the lettering, which would just let things stand out better. But I noticed that Sel's moon, Oem, didn't have it. Is it a mistake? Or does it actually indicate the presence of an atmosphere? (In which case, every planet and moon except Oem would have at least some sort of an atmosphere.) And is it the same atmospheric indication that marks our Cognitive Anomaly? I don't think that it's a Physical Realm phenomenon (or else, why would it be called a "Cognitive" anomaly), but if it is located in the Physical Realm, then it might be something that would sustain its own atmosphere? Seeding for a far-future sci-fi twist in the Nalthian system?
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  38. I was thinking it would allow you to power the Surges with Voidlight if you couldn't already, and might increase the efficiency as well.
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  39. Moash punches himself in the face...
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  40. I'm not sure PR is the right word there. PR implies spin, manipulation, obfuscation. I'm not going to tell you how to feel, but you may have tricked yourself here. You dislike Shallan because of her character. Therefore when she does something you like, or find impressive, you have the impression that Sanderson is forcing you to like her. In reality, you like her (on this issue, not necessarily in general). This isn't a PR move, this is a change in character for Shallan, or a demonstration of what she could be. I have to tell you; mental illness does not give you a get out of jail free card. I'm not sure how much experience you have dealing with people who have mental illnesses, but the opposite is usually true. You get blamed for more things because you have a mental illness. Attributions of failings that people give to your illness. You aren't hated for these things, but you cannot grow beyond them. It is a horrible thing that society does. You also fundamentally misunderstand how her disorder works. It's not that she is the "real Shallan" only when doing good things. She is always the real Shallan. All of these things are her, and she is responsible in any form for the actions of any other. It's the internal struggle between the various aspects, the decision within herself to decide what she wants, and not to switch or be subsumed that defines her. Sympathy should be extended to those with disadvantaged backgrounds, but it doesn't stretch forever, and doesn't truly excuse actions. A savvy reader or observer is able to quickly determine whether a person's background is be used, or coming to the forefront naturally. As someone mentioned, Renarin is a back five person. He is a side character for the moment. I would be cautious in assuming that Shallan's disorder is anything similar to Renarin's. There will, and are, differences. She hasn't stolen anything from him. What you say could be read as, "People with autism are the same as people with multiple personalities." Having her interact and be reviewed positively by the Kholins isn't a manipulation. I haven't found any interaction between any Kholin and Shallan remotely unreasonable. They are based in the character traits of both. If you feel like any interaction is unearned by Shallan, that's your business, but I don't see any support for it. And the Kholins have been shown very publicly in book two to have not have good judgment on people. The last part I understand; lots of people dont like Shallan, and feel like OB should have had less of her. She should have given more space to Dalinar, or Kaladin, or anyone else. I wish there was less of her. That being said, much of her interaction with Adolin and the other characters made sense. It was logical that Shallan, who has ample experience dealing with expectations and internal demands, helps Adolin be who he wants to be. And ultimately, she just supports his decision; she says that he should do what he wants, that he doesnt have to be his father. But she also says he can be. She has no stake in his choice. I'm not here shilling for Shallan. I am against the sort of close-minded dismissal you presented.
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  41. I'm a sucker for a good landscape. Today had one of those sunrises that just makes my soul ache and I wanted to grab people and make them appreciate it. Extra clear air quality. The mountains were a deeper indigo at their bottoms, but then at their peaks the red morning light was doing that awesome thing where the mountains looked purple and orange at the same time, in a way I can't describe well. Not mixed or in a gradient, but as if two colors were occupying the same spot. Above them the sky was doing a quick fade from pink to light blue, and a flawlessly round, bright white moon just punched through the picture.
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  42. Okay, so I've skimmed through this post so sorry if someone already made this point. I keep seeing people talk about how Kaladin and Shallan could've worked if adolin hadn't gotten in the way, or could work if Adolin died. This seems absolutely ridiculous to me and I think it's just people hoping without any evidence. Here is the thing. Shallan has had a very distressing childhood. Most of this is because of the OVERPROTECTIVE nature of her father. We even see this at the end of OB when she gets mad at Adolin for saying he wants to protect her. Now, what is Kaladin's biggest flaw/struggle? It is how he feels the need to protect everyone. I see no way that this could end well. Kaladin would always be trying to protect Shallan, and this would just constantly remind her of her father.
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  44. 361. Never complain about how boring your life and town is. Just don't.
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  45. 356. If a crazy person claiming to be a long lost family member shows up at your house, then they are trustworthy. if they claim to be from a secret organization sent to recruit you to help save the world or claim to be friends of your dead parents, they are evil.
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  46. I'm re-reading "Skyward" to prepare for the next book, and I've had some thoughts. Jorgen's family might be hiding a big secret. All the works of art (statues, murals, etc.) are going to be important and have meanings that help the Defiants figure things out. (Wish the Coppermind had a list of these; wish I had time to make that list...) The planet's name, Detritus, is going to be huge-ly meaningful. And now a wild theory: What if Doomslug is M-BOT's pilot, transmogrified somehow into a life form suited for decades in the caverns? (Hey, I said it was wild, not believeable, LOL!) Looking forward to "Starsign"!!
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  47. Stick? No, I think its Taln. Stick resisted catching fire for five minutes. Taln took torture like a boss for 10 000 years.
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  48. Preface: I'm going to stick my neck out and actually defend Moash. Not as a person (he is reprehensible and worthy of scorn), but as a character in a narrative. We are all entitled to our opinions, though mine might be an unpopular one, so feel free to disagree or agree with a clear conscience. So here we go: 1) This is factually incorrect, I believe that Moash teaches the Parsh how to fight after Lady Leshwi tells him why they(The Fused) fight. This goes over the readers' head the first time because we didn't know the truth about the Recreance then. So I see why that would be forgettable, but Moash was already convinced before any training took place. 2) Also, this is out of context. Its like saying that Shallan is a good artist, but without discussing how/why she learned or what she does with them. Yeah, Moash trained those Parsh after he was convinced that the Fused were right, the events leading up to that revelation took place, and given an attempt to exact vengeance on the king in the form of storming Kholinar. He wasn't doing it just to be like Kaladin or because he needed to be 100% sure he was on the Fuseds' side, he was motivated for selfish reasons not out of the kindness of his heart like Kaladin. Also, there were plenty more exciting parts of his story that diverged from Kaladin-like moments. I agree with this and @Isabel's analysis. I think that Moash is all those things, but character flaws do not necessarily make a character who is flawed in a narrative sense. Also, I think that what people are saying about Moash/Kaladin and Amaram/Dalinar is that they are indeed different internally(as you said), but they are put in similar circumstances(thus the comparisons). I honestly don't see why that is a problem though, it's a common literary device and an appropriate one given the significance of symmetry on Roshar. So I don't see Moash's and Kaladin's stories mirroring each other as negative, but as a positive. Moash was only ever "good" in association to Kaladin and Bridge Four, he was never a good person on his own. Even while he was with them, he never acted with any great sense of honor or even morals. The only things he ever talked about was revenge and power. He was, not to put too fine a point on it, odious the whole time. Remember when he said that he would gladly switch places with the lighteyes and have them be the slaves instead? That was in WoK I believe, Moash didn't just decide that he had a problem with how things were run. He did however just realize that the voidbringers were not as bad as he was lead to believe, which was a common theme in OB. Really, his switch was more believable than Nale's, who apparently forgot all about the events of Edgedancer, his interaction with Lift, and the last 4500+ years of Rosharan history. This is strange, but I have all ways considered it the other way around. A hero's or villain's story should not start after they are considered worthy, it should start when they are normal(or worse than normal). Otherwise there can be no growth or development. The journey they go through and the lessons they learn(or don't) are what make them worthy. Remember that Moash is just getting his first PoV's now, he hasn't had the chance to develop into a full antagonist yet. He just got his powers at the end of the book. Why must all our PoV's be from "moral" people? I find that not only bland, but unrealistic. We are talking about a story where our dark god is called Odium/Passion. I don't want a story full of Kaladins and Dalinars(though I like them both). I want PoV's from both sides to get a deeper story, one that is not single dimensional(not to imply that Kaladin/Dalinar is single dimensional). His viewpoint is simply that of an antagonist's, the enemy's, I didn't need nor expect to be taught the secrets of the Cosmere by Moash(though he teases us with that dagger). I just want him to show the complimenting motif, the counter to our Radiants. The one other person who's PoV's would have fit was Venli's, but she is just like the rest of our Radiants now. Honestly, Moash is somewhat sympathetic. Just and wholesome ideas are relatable within reason, but so are ones of hatred and revenge to some extent. Especially when those emotions are justified, Moash hasn't really lived a happy life(though some of that was admittedly his own doing). I would expect someone with his past to be bitter. If someone with his background and personality didn't turn to Odium, I don't know what it would take for someone to do so. And he does miss Bridge Four and Kaladin and regret what his hatred made him do(kind of), so he has some internal conflict and some variance in his inner dialog. Well, generally speaking, most edgy teens aren't born under an oppressive lighteyed regime, have their parents die in unlawful prison, and be sent to die as cannon fodder. Also, who is the original edgy teen you are comparing Moash to for him to be an even edgier teen? Kylo Ren? 1) Moash wants to kill the king in WoR, does so in OB 2) Moash wants to overthrow the lighteyes/become a lighteyes in WoK, does so in WoR and joins the Fused in OB Seems to fit to me. I don't think it will happen, but...just...please no.
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