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  1. This month, we are beginning a brand-new initiative for the Coppermind. The Coppermind is a living, breathing thing, and there's so much to write that it's impossible to have the wiki succeed without your help. But often, people are interested in writing for the Coppermind but don't know where to start. To this end we are going to have monthly objectives to help guide people towards what should be done. Our plan is to have a mix of larger tasks as well as smaller tasks that are much less of a time commitment. If you're new to editing the Coppermind, don't worry; we'll help you out with guides and plenty of assistance. You don't need experience, just the will to do help out! We'll also provide awards, because everyone loves fake internet points. So, here are our objectives for July. There's still so much from Oathbringer and Stormlight to do, so we're focusing on that this month. (And, let's face it, probably for the next little while, too.) We're going to try and make things fairly focused. Larger Projects 1. Kaladin's History in Oathbringer Part Three Kaladin's article needs a lot of updating for Oathbringer, but let's start by just updating the events in Part Three and getting that up to speed. 2. Siege of Kholinar Behold, one of the worst articles on the wiki! Yeah, this needs vast expansion. For subsections that should be here, you can look at the article structure for battles. 3. Lopen We know there's Lopen fans, and if you're a fan of Lopen you should hate this criminally short article of his! 4. Hesina You know, a lot of people worry when they start on the Coppermind, "oh no, I'll screw something up!" And I can understand that, especially for big character articles. But if you just look at Hesina's article you'll quickly realize that you cannot possibly screw this up, because it is so short and so bad. It is criminal that no one has given this one more attention! 5. Update Rysn for Oathbringer Rysn just has one interlude, but it's pretty meaty. Let's update her article with all the Oathbringer stuff and call it good. 6. Roshone Oathbringer Stuff Similar to Rysn, Roshone doesn't have a big role to play in Oathbringer, but there's still stuff to add in all of his sections. 7. Mraize's History from Words of Radiance If you look around the Coppermind, you'll see that in most character articles, the longest section is the History, where the events of their lives (and in turn, events from the books) are chronicled. Well you know who doesn't have a history section? Mraize. Literally none! Let's start by writing down what he did in Words of Radiance first. 8. Celebrant How about a location article to mix things up? Celebrant is cool. Let's get everything down about this place from Part Four of Oathbringer. For guidance, see our article structure for cities. 9. History of the Refounded Windrunners So on the Order of Windrunners page, there's a lot of stuff on what's going on with them magically, but we should also have some information about the refounding of the Windrunners. What happened there? Obviously, if we learned more about the history of the Windrunners before the Recreance, that would go on this page too, but we don't have too much on it at the moment. 10. Wax's History in Alloy of Law And for a non-Stormlight bonus, there's Wax's article. The history of his literally ends when he arrives back in Elendel. Let's start with working on his history during what happens in Alloy of Law, to say nothing of Shadows of Self and Bands of Mourning. Smaller tasks These are tasks that are much shorter and involve characters that are minor. But hey, minor things are important to have done too! Most of these articles are so short that they will not require separate sections. For short articles, include as much as you can possibly think of about them. 1. Skybreaker acolytes Szeth meets a lot of Skybreaker acolytes in Oathbringer. None have too much on them. They are: Warren, Joret, Cali, Zedzil, Ty 2. Lunamor's family Of course, we get Rock's family in this one, and his family is big! This includes: Tuaka, Gift, Cord, Rock (junior), Star, Kuma'tiki, Beautiful Song 3. Kaladin's singer squad Kaladin meets various singers in Part One of Oathbringer. Let's complete these up: Khen, Sah, Vai, Hesh, Jali 4. Wall Guard squadmembers Another Kaladin squad (Kaladin getting another squad, what's new) from Part Three of Oathbringer. This could be really good to do if you're also doing Siege of Kholinar or Kaladin's Part Three History. These are: Deedanor, Noromin, Alaward, Beard, Hid, Hadinar, Vaceslv, Vardinar, Ved 5. Fladm This is a minor guard who dies in Rsyn's interlude. 6. Insah This article refers to a character referred to once in Oathbringer Chapter 50. Include as much detail as possible, but there's not much here. 7. Mara Mara is Lirin's apprentice when Kaladin returns to Hearthstone. 8. Fullnight Fullnight is a bit harder than the last two. It's Dalinar's gelding in his first flashback, but there still isn't much about him. 9. Helt This is a master-servant to Elhokar in Urithiru. This should be a fast one. 10. Hariel This is one of the Fused, who took over Demid's body. There's some to expand on here but again, very little. When you are totally done with an article, change the text at the bottom from {{stub}} or {{partial}} to {{complete}}. What's in it for me? We want to motivate people to help, so we will be giving out Coppermind awards for the users in July with the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd most edits, and we'll also give out awards if you contributed to one of these items. They'll be on your user page for all to see. Okay, I'm in, how do I to start? The most important thing is to be bold! Content is hard to write, but we can always format your stuff if it doesn't quite match conventions. MediaWiki notation is not the easiest to learn. If you're interested, we have lots of guides to help. It does very much help to have ebooks so you can find instances of a specific word or person. (This is extremely helpful for minor characters). If you have physical books, ask us and we can help you determine this so you don't need to reread the whole text. Come join us on the dedicated Coppermind Discord, or come chat in the #coppermind channel on the 17th Shard Discord. We are really happy to help. Lastly, but certainly not least, we have something pretty special that's happened on the wiki that we would like to spotlight. Through a lot of effort, people have been able to figure out where the continent of Roshar is on the planet, and look what the user Otto didact has made: sweet, sweet maps highlighting locations on Roshar. For example, Alethkar: Emul: And for bodies of water: How awesome are these? They are just spectacular. Give Otto a big round of applause!
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  3. "Thranduil, you must listen to me! The danger is dire, and the shadow will soon spread through all the world, reaching even here in Eryn Galen! Our response to the threat must be swift!" "Mithrandir, your warnings are grim news to the Southrons, but what care we for them? Greenwood is safe from all, and the kingdoms of men are of no concern to us." Thranduil waved a dismissive hand. "Begone with your babbling, old wizard. We have no need of your ilk here." Gandalf drew up, becoming… deeper, yet brighter. His voice lowered. "King Thranduil, if you do not respond, the threat within your own woods will only grow stronger. You know of the shadow within Dol Gulder. It feeds off the despair of all races, and men and elves alike will suffer if we do not swiftly respond. I have not thus ventured into Dol Gulder, as whatever resides there may be beyond my skill to handle, yet we must travel to the south now to defeat the evil arising." He paused. "I believe it may be a demon of power, a Valarauko. A Balrog of Angband, so long hidden among the caverns of Ennor." Thranduil snorted, a hilariously derisive sound from one who should have been regal and kingly. "I will not say it again, Gandalf the Grey. Begone from my kingdom, and take these lesser beings away with you. I have spared their lives only because of your presence, but my patience with them will not last." Gandalf sagged slightly. "I would not wish upon the most base man the suffering I fear will come unto your people, King of Greenwood. I will take my leave, but I pray you will yet heed my warnings." He turned to leave, the dwarves and men who traveled with him being led by the guards of the Elven kingdom. —— "Uncle.." "How dare you speak to me so familiarly with such treasonous words, young one!" Thranduil scowled at Legolas, Prince of Greenwood. "You seek to leave our protection for the likes of these?" "My King, the warnings of Mithrandir should not be dismissed lightly. He is right to insist on our aid." King Thranduil scowled deeper still. "If you are to leave, flee quickly, 'fore I give the order to have you bound so as to keep you from this foolishness." Legolas bowed and slipped away on silent feet. As he did, a handmaiden approached, pulling him up short just out of sight of the mad king. "Prince Greenleaf, a word. My mistress also feels your compassion and haste. She would aid in your undertaking, but she also sends a word of warning. There may be those amongst the companions of the Maiar who would wish you harm, and a journey such as this leaves you unguarded. Seek protection in anonymity, and hide yourself among them. Perhaps we may even route those who sympathize with the enemy and save the companions from harm. I myself will accompany you, similar unknown to the rest of the travelers." Legolas nodded at the wisdom, and they began their preparations. ————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————— Welcome, all, to The Shadow In The South, Long Game 47, set in the Third Age of Middle-Earth, approximately 50 years prior to the events of The Hobbit. Mirkwood still stands strong, though Thranduil and his people have been driven ever further from Dol Gulder and into the northern heart of the forest. Gandalf has presented his warning, and travelers may choose to join him. This game is relatively simple, yet deceptively tricky. The rules are below, and it should also be noticed that I am strongly encouraging role-play, and will attempt to provide extensive story and prompts for role-playing opportunities, though not nearly to the extent of Amanuensis's games. I have not, however, specifically included any incentives in the rules, in order to remain welcoming to those who do not wish to role-play or are unable to commit the time. The Game: General Rules: PMs will be open during all cycles. There are no restrictions on PMs, except that I and any other GMs must be included in all PMs. Group PMs are permitted. All actions must be submitted via your role PM during the appropriate cycles. If you will be unavailable during a cycle and wish to submit your action early, let me know, and that will be handled on a case-by-case basis. The alignment and role of players who are lynched or killed will be revealed at the beginning of the following cycle. Every player must post in the thread at least once per full cycle (combined Night and Day cycles), starting from Day 3. Anyone who does not will he left behind when breaking camp the following day cycle. Players who have been left behind may be replaced by pinch hitters if available, or will be considered dead otherwise. Sending in actions or participating in PMs will not protect you. Roles: Items: Actions and restrictions: [Reserved for rule clarifications] Player List: Sign-ups begin now, and will last for 2 weeks unless we need to shorten or extend it for any reason. Timer is below. Quick Links:
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  4. This idea started for me during the sample chapters, it's evolved some to include more so I wished to expand what I started here. Much of what's in the old thread will be repeat here, but I think I've fleshed it out more for (hopefully) a different and more in depth discussion. The Forms I believe that the singers are born without a spren bond. This would mean that they are born without a "form" but have a base physiology that is unaltered by a Spren. This is not Dullform, but something distinct. I base this on the following words from Eshonai and Venli's mother in Words of Radiance This implies a coming of age ceremony in which a listener went into the storms to bond a spren for the first time. So I believe that this lack of form, or "Birthform" is the natural unbonded state of a singer. I think that this is the form that we see in the Singers that were healed by the Everstorm. I find it highly suspicious that we are never once shown a child of the listeners. The first time we see a child of the singer race is Sah's daughter, in the same form as all of the other restored Parsh. These seems to be an obfuscation to me. Next we have Dullform. It appears through the text that when a singer enters the storm to adopt a form, each Form is tied to a specific spren. Hence the search for creation Spren, and hopefully, Artform. If this is the case, why is Dullform an expected result of experimenting with new spren? I believe that Dullform is not a true "form" but a protective mechanism. When the Spren enters into the gemheart, I think that it merges with the spiritweb in a specific location, integrating into the Spiritual Aspect to alter the Physical form and thought process of the Singer, but only if the Spren is a viable option for a form. In the event that the Spren is not viable I think dullform occurs. The portion of the spiritweb that normally integrates with the Spren instead retracts, resulting in a dormant portion of their Spiritual aspect. This dulls the rhythms, reduces Cognitive function, and pushes them into a "form" very similar to another we've seen. Slaveform, or the Parshmen, also have reduced Cognitive function, and are completely incapable of bonding with spren or detecting the rhythms. I believe that this is because the same portion of the Spiritual Aspect that integrates with the Spren in a proper form, or retracts in Dullform, is fully excised. The physical similarities between Slaveform and Dullform are not coincidence. They appear similar because they are both nearly the same thing. Dullform is just more complete Spiritually. The Last Legion The group of Singers that became the listeners were a part of the "Last Legion." a group that now seems to have been composed of Regals, connected to Ba-Ado-Mishram to gain Voidlight in the false desolation, and Mateforms out of necessity. And with the knowledge of those two Non-Voidforms, a group from the Last Legion adopted Dullform to escape their gods, inadvertently saving themselves from the excision forced on the rest of their race. I believe this was possible precisely because of the protective mechanism of Dullform. The spiritweb retracts, and the connection that BAM had forged with them all through the use of the Voidforms was also withdrawn. Whatever Melishi attempted that imprisoned BAM and simultaneously crippled every other living singer, was unable to reach out and excise the Spiritual Aspects of those in Dullform. To this use of the Surges, just as to a non-viable spren, that section of the spiritweb was already gone. The Rhythms In the Slaveform singers, the rhythms are completely absent. I belive that this is because the portion that was excised and integrates with spren is the exact same piece of the spiritweb that allows for the rhythms to be detected. In Slaveform, it is absent. In Dullform they are diminished. In a true form, they are filtered through the Spren, in the variety that we have always seen listeners sense them. In a Voidform, they are altered by the investiture that has corrupted the Spren. I think this is why all of the "new" rhythms are tinged with anger and disgust. They are the old rhythms, twisted into something hateful. To attune one of the rhythms that are familiar to the original forms is difficult for someone in a Voidform, and the majority of the time that we see Venli do it is in the presence of Timbre, making me think that her proto-bond may have helped to diminish the influence of the Voidspren in her gemheart. That's it for now. Tell me your thoughts. Tear it apart. Discuss.
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  5. Come on man, you're not supposed to discuss this outside the Obstetrician Spoiler Board
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  6. You know you're a Sanderfan when one of your Facebook friends says she is "looking for an OB" and your first thought is "She's looking for an Oathbringer?"
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  7. https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=Marsh#4142 I came across this WoB that gained my curiosity I believe that these 'reasons I haven't spoken of yet' refer to Ruin's plan following the destruction of Scadrial. Ruin would have been free from the Scadrial system, intent on causing more destruction. If Ruin were to attack a shardworld he would likely reach a stalemate, similar to the current situation in Mistborn 2 involving Harmony and the red haze (Autonomy?). In order to conquer a world, Ruin would need to deploy ground forces just like the shard currently attacking Scadrial is doing. The inquisitors are Ruin's hands and would make the perfect tools for conquering world and bringing destruction in their wake. The timeframe involved in moving from world to world destroying as you go is far longer than an Inquisitors lifespan. The inquisitors age normally and can die of old age.... Unless they are using a feruchemical Atium spike. Ruin could supply the Inquisitors with Atium which they could use to attain immortality through compounding. I know that this is hardly relevant now but I still found it fun imagining events in a parallel universe where Ruin had won. Any thoughts?
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  8. "Eperon" is the left side of an ultra supamega supremus awesome person's brain. Mraize figured it out and turns out I know too(neither if us know for reals) Thus, Brandy died, and the muffins exploded, and the ghanderflaffle merged with Butt and Arnold to create a tri-shard Below is an image of a ghanderflaffle Arnold My perception of Butt And Brandy
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  9. Not as innocent as I wish I was. Thanks, high school. But yeah, yeah, sorry. On topic - Me in PMs*: *this specific scenario didn't happen
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  10. ”Inappropriate... like dividing by zero?”
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  11. Hemalurgy. It's a totally decentralized magic system. You can use it anywhere in the cosmere, as long as you know how. It doesn't require special spiritual genetics, a splinter-bond, or any kind of magical initiation. Just common things, like metal and savagery. It's even theoretically possible that, with a little hint from a worldhopper, a civilization could discover hemalurgy, study it in depth, and implement it on a huge scale, without ever realizing that they're harnessing the power of a Shard on a distant planet that they've never heard of. So here's my question. Are there other magic systems like that? And, if so, have we seen them? Is it possible that we've witnessed the magic of an unknown shard, and mistaken it for the work of a local shard, or a basic law of the cosmere? (Wouldn't hemalurgy look like that, if you used it without knowing of Ruin?) A few months ago I posted my theory about the remaining unnamed Shards of Adonalsium. Based on the logic of that theory, I proposed the existence of a shard called Artifice. Artifice is a counterpart to Cultivation, sharing her interest in progress and creation, but approaching it through more direct mechanical means. Artifice is a creator who makes no effort to disguise creation as evolution. Artifice is a god of creativity, ingenuity, and invention. (Ingenuity, of course, is a not-quite-canon Shard, much discussed on a recent Shardcast. It sounds like Ingenuity is a creativity-oriented Shard that has a definite place in the cosmere, but Brandon can't canonize it because he isn't happy with the name. Well, Brandon, how about Artifice? That's a cool name.) I theorized that Artifice's magic system would be a crafting system. That reminded me of this WoB: Based on the tone of that conversation, I'm guessing the thing that picks Elantrians isn't really a fabrial. I'm inclined to think it's an Avatar, or something like that. But that's not important. Look at the part that I underlined. So fabrials are a cosmere-wide phenomenon, with big implications for the later cosmere. (not unlike hemalurgy.) And clearly the standard spren-and-gemstone device that we've seen on Roshar is not the only kind of device that you could call a fabrial. Brandon has also confirmed that the construction of fabrials is a magic system in its own right, distinct from the others on Roshar: But we have little or no reason to believe that fabrial science is connected to any of the local shards. It may not even be native to Roshar. Combine this with its apparent universality, and I propose that the construction of fabrials is actually a non-localized magic system, like hemalurgy, connected to a currently unrevealed shard. And I think this points to the existence of a creative, mechanically-oriented shard, like my theoretical Artifice/Ingenuity. This fabrial magic system would manifest differently on different Shardworlds, using local Foci and interacting with local manifestations of investiture (magic systems). On Roshar, fabrials use spren, just like surgebinding does. On Scadrial it would work differently. I believe the many magical devices we saw in Bands of Mourning are the Scadrian manifestation of the fabrial system. The undeniable parallel is that both southern Scadrian and Rosharan artifabrians can create a mechanical device which mimics the abilities of a local magic-user. The south Scadrian airship lowers its mass, like a feruchemist. Their allomantic grenades can use allomancy, just like humans do. And on Roshar, we see fabrials that can heal like an Edgedancer, soulcast like a Lightweaver, and teleport like an Elsecaller. The construction of these Scadrian fabrials could be seen as very similar to the Rosharan variant. The power source is a reservoir of raw investiture fuel: a stormlight-infused gemstone, or an ettmetal battery. The other key component, which I'll call the Effect Generator, is another piece of investiture, comparable to innate investiture in humans, which determines the magical effect. In Rosharan fabrials the Effect Generator is a spren. In Scadrian ones it is most likely either a nicrosilmind or a hemalurgic spike, or something similar produced by the mysterious Excisor device. The third component, which connects the Effect Generator to the power source, is a metal apparatus, which I'm sure we'll find hidden inside most south Scadrian devices. This seems to reflect a basic rule of this magic system, or perhaps of the cosmere in general: an inanimate object can only use magic if it's metallic. Further speculations: Thoughts?
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  12. To all aspiring Fifth Oath Skybreakers - scaring people in the night and calling yourself Batman is not the way to achieve it.
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  13. Okay so I saw a few of the Explain a Film Plot badly things earlier and thought they were funny, so I decided to do them for the cosmere books. I think some of them are funny, so I decided to share them. Hopefully it'll at least get a few laughs. If anyone has any more or any different ones, please post them. Spoilers for the cosmere, obviously. I'll label each one just in case though. The Final Empire: Well of Ascension: Hero of Ages: Alloy of Law: Shadows of Self: Bands of Morning: Warbreaker: Elantris: I couldn't think of any for Stormlight, hopefully someone else can [EDIT by Moderator: This topic originally was solely cosmere but has moved beyond that, so I moved this to Entertainment Discussion.]
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  14. Could ideal 4 already be written out? It can't that simple but... Vasher did guide him to the third ideal. “Sometimes, Vasher wondered if the two weren’t really the same thing. Protect a flower, destroy the pests who wanted to feed on it. Protect a building, destroy the plants that could have grown in the soil. Protect a man. Live with the destruction he creates.” Excerpt From Warbreaker Brandon Sanderson
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  15. When the only reason you want to go to the family reunion is so you can talk to your Sanderfan cousins. And and aunt and uncle. Six in all, and my mom's about halfway done with tWoK. When you have a bag full of coins sitting next to your bed in case of an emergency.
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  16. From memory, Lift speaking to Gawx about Dalinar 'You can't trust him. He's got a tight butt' The explanation was just as entertaining.
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  17. That's a fascinating WoB, thank you for posting that. However, I want to point out that in your WoB Sanderson does not explicitly refute the OP's theory. He doesn't say anything about what would happen if you burned the metalmind, just that you couldn't feruchemically tap it anymore. He actually strongly suggests that there are some things you could do in this vein that would work: So I am going to predict that burning steel that used to be an ironmind would do something interesting. But not necessarily what you would expect it to do.
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  18. Obstetrician--a doctor who specializes in childbirth.
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  19. You know you're a Sanderfan when you make cookie dough, pop needles in them, and sell them..... *cough @Voidus cough*
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  20. I made some changes and I think I am going to file the rest of the comments and any future ones aside for after I rip the rest of the book apart. It is so easy to get hung up on my first twenty pages or so and I know there are major gaps later on. Thanks!
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  21. Actually compounding atium doesn't allow you to live forever. At least not how it was being done by TLR. It can keep you alive a very long time. Age is weird and is based on your connection. So essentially The Lord Ruler's connections kept trying to snap him back to his correct age. It is possible that Ruin would use a combination of of storing connection and atium to more efficiently reverse aging. Ruin's minions wouldn't need connection.
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  22. I certainly could be wrong, but I don't think Jasnah is gay, I think she's just had some things happen to her when she was younger (implied around the encounter with Amaram during OB) and as a result, she's been turned off to romance / marriage / relationships / emotional attachment ever since. I don't think it's impossible to see her re-evaluate these things given the right situation and the right person. I do agree with what some other folks have said about Kaladin though - while he definitely finds Jasnah attractive physically (noted in OB), if things played out where Jasnah wanted a political marriage with Kaladin, I'm not sure he'd go along with it, and I'd be glad that he didn't. I wouldn't want to see him enter into something like that if it's just cold and calculated only. It'll be interesting to see where things go, but I think Jasnah / Kaladin would be a fun relationship to read the development of from both of their POV, especially if it turned romantic.
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  23. This was my take on it as well. The parshmen in Slaveform seem to have been stripped of their spiritual identity. This is, as you said, achieved by an excision of the spiritweb. Dullform mimicking Slaveform to a less extreme extent supports your argument that Dullform is only a partial excision of the spiritweb. The partial excision of the spiritweb as a protective mechanism against unwillingly bonding a voidspren makes sense. A nahel bond fills cracks in the spiritweb so Venli's bond with Timbre is likely acting as a shield against the Voidspren integrating with her spiritweb. This would also put Venli in a tough spot as if she were to break her nahel bond through not following her ideals she would be exposed to a hostile takeover by the Voidspren. Edit: I just realised that this mechanism could allow a more peaceful resolution to the human-singer conflict. Jasnah proposes committing genocide as then the voidspren would have no Hosts. However, converting the parshmen into Radiants would have a similar effect and may be a large part of Venli's character arc next book.
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  24. Close, but the other way around, the WoB came about because we asked to see how plausible the character was.
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  25. When your mom tells you the doctor says your iron is running low, and you ask her how she knew you were an allomancer.
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  26. To get semi-back-on-topic: This recent conversation:
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  27. I think to make that sort of long term training plot be interesting you need to show quantifiable progress so the reader knows the story is going somewhere. Making sure that each training scene is different will help things from getting stale as well. You could also introduce some sort of subplot so the character is doing something else interesting aside from training. And if your character has somebody teaching them, make the student/teacher relationship really fun and interesting to read. Those are my suggestions. Keep up the good work!
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  28. Not a quip, per se. But just ran into this gem: Oh, Navani. Because even the Blackthorn needs to be on your schedule.
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  29. If you want you can practice on my posts
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  30. Thank you! Building off of some that have gone before... Mistborn: The Well of Ascension (and The Hero of Ages):
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  31. Mistborn Era 1: Warbreaker: Elantris: Secret History:
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  32. She was also a heretic, and it does not appear that she was particularly well liked. I'm not really sure how much it actually would mean to Adolin, in particular; they're too far apart in age to have conceivably been raised together, and Jasnah seems to have spent most of her time away from court. Most likely he didn't see her death as being much more personally relevant than the death of some distant cousin from a Cadet branch of the family. I need to see this happen. I'm not sure what that was; I'm sorry.
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  33. The jester makes fun of YOU!
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  34. “Beautiful destroyer. Blunt and effective. Of all those I've claimed over this brief thousand years, you are the only one I think just might be able to understand me.” -Ruin, Hero of Ages, ch. 57. [CONTAINS OATHBRINGER SPOILERS] I once listened to a speaker presenting on the story-telling potential of role-playing MMOs. The thesis was that, through the mechanics of the open-ended game play, the players became story-tellers, crafting unique collaborative narratives through the actions and interactions of their created characters. The presentation was very well done, and I was pleased to see alternative forms of story-telling (focusing on fantasy!) getting some of the spotlight. However, I wondered about the boundaries of this story-telling model: which stories were allowed in, and which were barred at the door? “What about stories of non-violence?” I asked. While there were options available for those stories, blacksmiths or farmers, the presenter admitted that it would be difficult to advance in the games without violence of some kind, and the story-telling potential would thus be limited. Violence is often a staple of fantasy. One of the escapist attractions of the genre is that feeling of power you feel when witnessing a character you identify with have a moment of awesome. While some of us may be martial arts experts or hardened soldiers in our daily lives, many of us are not, and reading about epic heroes laying waste to their evil enemies can be an empowering and gratifying experience for those of us with frustrations we are unable to take a fist or bolt of magical energy to. There's a reason The Emperor's Soul is about Shai, and not the simple life version of her that would be created if she used her final Essence Mark. One of the reasons we read fantasy is to see extraordinary characters doing amazing things. It is important, however, to question the violence we see when reading. Is it realistic? What do these moments of awesome cost the characters? In my opinion, the cosmere books do a good job of providing diverse moments of awesome, unlike the MMOs from that presentation: Raoden reviving Elantris in a burst of light by scraping the chasm line into the ground, Sazed ascending and recreating the world with the knowledge in his metalminds, or Shallan discovering the secret of the Oathgates through scholarship and ingenuity. On the other hand, many moments of awesome in the cosmere are moments of great violence. So where does this leave us as readers? Are we, like Re-Shephir, creatures “of instinct and curiosity, drawn to violence and pain like scavengers to the scent of blood” (Oathbringer, ch. 30)? I don't think so, and furthermore, I don't think Brandon wants his readers to be mere spectators of blood sport. In particular, Brandon's characterization of Vin and Dalinar, arguably the two most violent figures in the cosmere, displays a sensitive and nuanced approach to depicting violence, thrilling readers with incredible fights scenes, without glorifying killing and death. Awe and disgust may be opposites, but they are brought together in Vin and Dalinar: the beautiful destroyers. The Mistborn Trilogy is known for its gorgeous fight scenes. Mistborn possess a grace that few cosmere killers can match. When Vin sets out with Zane to attack Cett, she doesn’t just go to make a dent in Cett’s forces. The killing is secondary, while Vin’s primary purpose is to awe Cett with her power: While we see men screaming and falling in this scene, Vin captivates the majority of the reader’s attention. She is the “terrible weapon”, a Mistborn at the height of her power. Even without atium, in this scene, Vin demonstrates to Cett’s entire army that none can stand against her. In many ways, this should be a triumphant moment for Vin. After being trapped between two armies, fearful and paralyzed with indecision, in this scene she is unleashed and allowed to stretch her abilities to their full potential. And, after patiently waiting for this moment, it is difficult not to be in awe of her. But at what cost? After decimating Cett’s forces, Vin comes across Cett and his son, one of whom she is convinced is Mistborn. Vin seeks to solve her problems with Cett through violence, but when she finally reaches him, she finds she cannot. Though she commands him to fight her, neither Cett nor his son, Gneorndin, can respond to her challenge. Brandon excites us by setting Vin loose to use her powers, but even the incredible, dazzling violence Vin unleashes is not an answer to her problems. The next morning, when Elend finds Vin, she is consumed with regret, confessing that while her old crew leader, Camon, was brutal and terrible, she likely killed more people in a single night than he had in his entire life. She goes on to say: “My entire life has been death, Elend. Death of my sister, the death of Reen. Crewmembers dead around me, Kelsier falling to the Lord Ruler, then my own spear in the Lord Ruler’s chest. I try to protect, and tell myself that I’m escaping it all. And then…I do something like I did last night” (The Well of Ascension, ch. 44). Following her massacre, Vin struggles to come to terms with being both surviving and causing great violence. This personal conflict is eventually resolved in Hero of Ages, when Vin uses the power of Preservation to destroy herself and Ruin, but along the way Brandon is careful to remind his readers of the human cost associated with his awesome fight scenes, both for the victims, and for the destroyer herself. Brandon continues his discussion of the relationship between beauty and destruction in Oathbringer. Like Vin, violence gives Dalinar a sense of purpose: Dalinar, and the reader along with him, fall under the Nergaoul’’s seductive spell. This moment is one of many where Dalinar is described as being more than a man. Here, he is judgement, sent by the Almighty to test the skill and worthiness of his enemies. While fighting with Blade and Plate might lack some of the otherworldly elegance of Mistborn or Windrunners, Dalinar’s fight scenes in Oathbringer remain captivating, even in their brutality. After hearing about the might and power of the Blackthorn in his prime, the reader is encouraged here to indulge as they enjoy watching Dalinar be awesome (sorry Lift, but you can’t hog it all to yourself). The way Brandon describes Dalinar in these fight scenes resembles how he describes Vin: both come to think of themselves as concepts or roles, rather than as individual people: Vin as Mistborn, and Dalinar as judgement. And yet, even the Blackthorn, who, despite his later redemption is likely the most brutal character in the cosmere, retains enough humanity to recognize the horror of what he is doing: Dalinar’s Shards and incredible fighting skills give him great power to defeat his enemies, but Brandon is quick to point out that there is a cost to getting lost in the glory of battle by emphasizing the destruction Dalinar has caused, and by highlighting that some of Dalinar’s own men also fell to his onslaught. After defeating the enemy general, Kalanor, Dalinar struggles to feel satisfied with his victory: It is this voice which drives Dalinar to continue his killing spree beyond what is necessary to win the battle. He wonders, “Shouldn’t the strongest rule? Why should he sit back so often, listening to men chat instead of war?” (Oathbringer, ch. 26). It is only after the Thrill almost drives Dalinar to kill his brother Gavilar that Dalinar stops and realizes what he has done. Gavilar’s celebration of Dalinar’s great victory is undermined by Dalinar’s feelings of guilt and shame for almost killing his brother. Despite Dalinar’s aptitude for war and fighting, and his oft emphasized disdain for conversation and politics, his great skill and power are not enough to satisfy him. Like Vin, Dalinar’s power and might leave him unfulfilled and unable to solve his problems. When he finally remembers burning the Rift, the voices of Evi and the children he killed haunt him: “Hypocrite, they said. Murderer. Destroyer” (Oathbringer, ch. 100). As he remembers his past, the actions that made Dalinar a fearsome warrior are a source of torment, rather than triumph, for him. Throughout Oathbringer, Dalinar often remarks about how difficult it is to adjust his thinking and unify people with politics and persuasion rather than by brute force, and how ill suited he is to the task of brokering peace. Both Hero of Ages and Oathbringer end with their respective destroyers overcoming inner turmoil to find some measure of self-acceptance. Vin determines that she can destroy to protect and is able to use Preservation in a way Leras never could. In doing so, she overcomes destruction incarnate by defeating Ruin, arguably the greatest destroyer the in the cosmere. Faced with a seemingly unstoppable force in Odium and the Fused, Brandon makes the reader think Dalinar may succumb to his past of destruction and violence and become that which he set out to defeat: Odium’s Champion. Armed with a book and, more importantly, the convictions it has taught him, Dalinar refuses to be a destroyer any longer. While Vin conquers destruction, she does so through continued violence. With Dalinar, Brandon takes his examination of violence further. Despite all of the breath-taking fight scenes in Oathbringer, the most awe-inspiring scene in the novel, and the crux of the epic climax, is the moment Dalinar, surrounded by gloryspren, refuses to give Odium his pain and opens the perpendicularity. In that moment, Daliner bests Odium, not with force, but by taking responsibility for his actions. Similarly, Dalinar overcomes Nergaoul with understanding, rather than a contest of force: While his history of struggle and violence is what allows Dalinar to capture Nergaoul, the capture itself, and the subsequent defeat of Odium’s forces, does not come about through violence on Dalinar’s part. Instead, Dalinar embraces the Thrill, thanking it for what it did for him in the past, and drawing it in close. He convinces it to rest in the gemstone. Like Vin overcoming Ruin, in this scene Dalinar, the destroyer, overcomes a divine force of destruction in a captivating way, but he does it without resorting to violence himself. In both Vin and Dalinar, Brandon sets out heroes who struggle with their self definition in the face of the violence they have committed against others. Brandon juxtaposes the hauntingly beautiful action sequences against the emotional impact those acts of violence have on the human soul, allowing his readers to enjoy the display while still being critical of that enjoyment. In their greatest moments, Brandon shows Vin and Dalinar overcoming violence and destruction, despite their status as destroyers, demonstrating that the ‘moments of awesome’ fantasy is known for do not always need to be violent ones, and that the beauty of destruction comes at a cost. _________ Post Script: As it turns out, Brandon himself has commented on the concept of beautiful but terrible violence in the Well of Ascension Annotations. Unfortunately, I did not find this quote until after I finished the essay above, but it has probably been bouncing around in the back of my head since I originally read it way back when. Enjoy Brandon’s take on the violence in Well of Ascension: Image Credit: "Vin in the Mists" by Xenia de Vries. You can also find her work on Instagram! Used with permission.
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  35. In perusing some of the other threads here, I'm almost afraid to setup an 'Ask Me Anything' thread for myself. But here goes nothing! Some background about me: I'm a 36 year old female-bodied individual with German and Scottish/Irish ancestry (pale chull Viking for the win!) I enjoy reading fantasy books and watching sci-fi and fantasy movies (I cannot just pick one Sanderson book/series as my favorite!). I'm an avid scuba diver and my favorite dive location is Cozumel, Mexico. I'm a writer and I published my first novel 'House of Red' last May. I enjoy playing tabletop RP games and have been doing so with friends since 2001. I've played all sorts of games from straight up D&D to Pathfinder to Fate to Star Wars to free-form storytelling games. I always play non-human characters. I live with my husband of 12 years and our two cats in central PA, USA. My favorite color is cerulean blue and my favorite book and movie is The 10th Kingdom. What you want to know about me? What have you always wondered about me? And please, no math questions!
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  36. thisisajokepleasedontspikemeee
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  37. Completely slipped my mind yesterday, but yesterday was the one year marker of the Knights of the Cosmere. We are still an active role play (kinda), which is sayin a lot.
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  38. As the tri-shard formed, it started to rain vodka and brandy onto Scadrial. People started to get drunk, chaos ensued. The Butt/Arnold/ghanderflaffle being looked at the chaos amusingly and thought it was wonderfully irrelevant.
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  39. Odium killed Honor, but before he killed Honor, Honor binded Odium's mind to the Rosharan system, because Honor it now dead only the Stormfather, the spren that holds Tanavast's cognitive shadow, can free him. The Stormfather is a spren who doesn't change so he will never free Odium, but if a Stormfather were to bond a human, and the human says sufficient amount of oaths then the human can free Odium on Tanavast's behalf. Basically Odium is attacking Roshar, so that he can force the Stormfather's hand, which would lead to creating someone that Odium can influence to create a senario where he can freed. It's just like how Ruin could only break out of prison with Persavation's power, Odium needs Honor or someone holding Honor's power to release the binding.
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  40. The Singers are the race, the listeners are (were?) a nation. I don't think this is correct. I simply think they were restored, and they act the way they do because it was the culture they have always been exposed to. They do what they know. As in your other thread, Rlain does not say that he needs a form to draw in Stormlight. It's directly said or implied. He says that the other members of Bridge Four don't understand the way that Singers change forms, and they subconsciously believe that he's better off as he is, and fear that Stormlight would push him towards becoming a monster. Voidforms, tied to Odium be a prerequisite of access to a magic system of Honor and Cultivation makes no sense. Odium loses. Without singers on his side to accept them, the Fused have no bodies and Odium has no agents other than the Unmade.
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  41. So, in my personal opinion, there is a place for casual dialogue, but using more formal and flowery language is also a great way to present a story. I will include a example from one of the great world classics Oedipus Rex as a example below. Also here is a example from the beginning of the excellent Death of Malygris by Smith: At the hour of interlunar midnight, when lamps burned rarely and far apart in Susran, and slow-moving autumn clouds had muffled the stars, King Gadeiron sent forth into the sleeping city twelve of his trustiest mutes. Like shadows gliding through oblivion, they vanished upon their various ways; and each of them, returning presently to the darkened palace, led with him a shrouded figure no less discreet and silent than himself. In this manner, groping along tortuous alleys, through blind cypress-caverns in the royal gardens, and down subterranean halls and steps, twelve of the most powerful sorcerers of Susran were brought together in a vault of oozing, death-gray granite, far beneath the foundations of the palace. The entrance of the vault was guarded by earth-demons that obeyed the arch-sorcerer, Maranapion, who had long been the king's councillor. These demons would have torn limb from limb any who came unprepared to offer them a libation of fresh blood. The vault was lit dubiously by a single lamp, hollowed from a monstrous garnet, and fed with vipers' oil. Here Gadeiron, crownless, and wearing sackcloth dyed in sober purple, awaited the wizards on a seat of limestone wrought in the form of a sarcophagus. Maranapion stood at his right hand, immobile, and swathed to the mouth in the garments of the tomb. Before him was a tripod of orichalchum, rearing shoulder-high; and on the tripod, in a silver socket, there reposed the enormous blue eye of a slain Cyclops, wherein the archimage was said to behold weird visions. On this eye, gleaming balefully under the garnet lamp, the gaze of Maranapion was fixed with death-like rigidity.
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  42. Looks like 4/5: @Majestic Fox, @shatteredsmooth, @Robinski, and @Jorville.
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  43. Well darn. The DA HAS BETTER COOKIES ANYWAYS
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  44. Wow! I knew Brandon was a lecturer but I didn't realise he's actually a really good teacher. I've just watched up to #8 and I'm not even slightly bored. Just super excited to start writing (even if it sucks) My goal now is: Write stuff down!! Draw out a plotline/framework thing and go from there My next big question for you though... So I have 4 groups of characters (about 10 detailed characters in total) Any of which could be a viewpoint character. For one of those groups, they are pretty much doing a type of martial arts training for the majority of the story and I sort of have an idea where to start with this and where I'm going with this... I just have no idea how I'm going to make the middle bit (the actual training) interesting or flow. If you know what I mean? In a movie this would be a montage, right? Does anyone have experience with this sort of thing?
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  45. Yeah. My little brother is cremling. He gets confused when I say "rust and ruin", "Stormfather!", or call him a storming fool. Airsick lowlander.
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  46. You know you’re a Sanderfan when this happens... Friend: I like these coins Me: You’ll like them even more after you read Mistborn Friend: (sarcastically) Why, because you eat them? Me: No... Friend: Then what? Me: ...well, I guess you could— that is, if the metals are pure. Otherwise, you get sick. Friend: (looks at the coins) These are pure... (pretends to eat a coin) Me: (laughs) They’re so stormin’ pure, they practically belch rainbows! Friend: What? Me: Book reference... (proceeds to laugh uncontrollably)
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  47. Mmm. His spren rarely shows itself, but we don't know that it's because it's afraid of Nightblood. I mean, it's a reasonable speculation, but it's not confirmed As long as Szeth has enough investiture on him, his spren should be safe. I wonder if Nightblood would kill Szeth first before it would get to the spren?
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  48. I'm still convinced that Shallan is lying to herself, and pretending to be the perfect wife for Adolin. This is going to explode back on her at some point, when she's either forced to acknowledge that she's killing Pattern, or she decides to ignore it and let him die by continuing to lie. And what feeling is that? Relief? Adolin doesn't love Shallan, he loves the fact that he doesn't have to choose for himself. He loves the fact that it's all arranged for him, and that all he has to do is walk the path laid out in front of him. Adolin, of the three, seems to be the one with the least amount of emotional attachment, period. Sure, he's ready for a relationship, but that's because he's tired of courting, tired of the expectations, and intimidated by the reality of choosing for himself who he wants to be with. I'm very disappointed with this arc, and will remain so until at least the next book, and it's possible I'll be very disappointed with the whole arc even when we see the aftermath. Generally I think it was poorly done, and it really stains my perception of WoR and most of OB. If there was a payoff, it could have been worth it, but as it is, there's a lot of misdirection that feels more like sloppy writing than well-crafted subversion. The fact that we're paused at the peak in the story is even worth, because now not only do I not understand the characters and don't believe in their motives, I can't see how they react. Depending on the actual resolution it could be recovered, but if we don't get anything more, I'll maintain that it was poorly done, a waste of words, and a net negative on the series as a whole.
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  49. @Chaos and @WhiteLeeopard thanks for the acknowledgement, I appreciate that. As for the reason Adolin is so polarizing, I do agree that some of it is backlash. The people who love Adolin (at least some who do) are really passionate about it, and as this poll indicates Adolin is actually enormously popular on 17S so the few who don’t enjoy him as much may get wearied by the number of posts about him. I’d actually be curious how Adolin’s overall popularity compares with the major characters (I wouldn’t be surprised if it is overall more positive after seeing this poll). As for why Adolin brings out such extreme positive views on the other side, I am sure there is not just one reason. But one possibility is that he is the “normal” guy in the story which may make people relate to him more or connect him more to people they know or could know. Another reason is his viewpoints are not very internal. Some people may like the more action or external focus which is different. But on the other hand a lot of times even when we get viewpoints from him we don’t get a lot of his own thoughts (or his thoughts don’t tell us much about him). We’re not given nothing to go on with him but we’re also not given a lot considering the number of pages he has had. That makes it possible to insert our own assumptions or wishes onto him or make him what we want him to be more or less. Some people will love that and others will be frustrated by it (I often am). What this also leads to is wildly different interpretations of the character and that can lead to polarization as well. For me though, if I am looking for flaws in Adolin it’s actually my way of trying to like him better. I’m not as interested in reading about “perfect” characters. Case in point, I love me some Shallan, and my girl has issues . So if people object when I talk about possible flaws that could make me more annoyed with the character to be honest. I know I will likely end up enjoying his character more if he goes in a less expected direction.
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