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  1. 180 points
    Okay so I saw a few of the Explain a Film Plot badly things earlier and thought they were funny, so I decided to do them for the cosmere books. I think some of them are funny, so I decided to share them. Hopefully it'll at least get a few laughs. If anyone has any more or any different ones, please post them. Spoilers for the cosmere, obviously. I'll label each one just in case though. The Final Empire: Well of Ascension: Hero of Ages: Alloy of Law: Shadows of Self: Bands of Morning: Warbreaker: Elantris: I couldn't think of any for Stormlight, hopefully someone else can
  2. 88 points
    This pre-release review is specially approved, and contains no Oathbringer spoilers for any of its pre-release materials. It does contain some Words of Radiance spoilers that are also mentioned in the Oathbringer synopsis. Oathbringer is my favorite book. I know this will seem like an empty statement. We are on 17th Shard, after all. Loving a new Brandon book--especially a new Brandon cosmere book--is par for the course. But, with that said, I've thought about this for a long time, and I truly cannot think of a book I've read that has made me feel the things Oathbringer has. It has the highest highs, the lowest lows, and moments where your eyes go wide in amazement. "Is this really happening right now?" you'll say. Yup. It is. This is the third book of the Stormlight Archive, Oathbringer. I don't think I can overhype this for you. This is the best thing Brandon has written. It isn't even close. I imagine it might just be your favorite book, too. Expert Craftsmanship Oathbringer is a colossal 450,000-word book, longer than Words of Radiance. (Remember when Brandon said Way of Kings was long because it needed to be long, and the next books would be shorter? Bwahaha.) Is it too long? No, there's absolutely no fluff in this book. It's jam packed with so many things. Oathbringer is all killer and no filler. Every scene feels like it belongs. I'm a guy who loves a tight plot--even more than I love worldbuilding--and this book is beautifully crafted. You won't be bored at all. Brandon walks a fine line of things of having events feel natural, but also doing some very unexpected things. There are things that happen in Oathbringer that I didn't expect we'd get until the back half of this ten book series. It's shocking what all happens in this book. Things vaguely referenced that many casual readers probably missed become absolutely central. Brandon explains these elements carefully, so even if you aren't up to speed on the craziness of Stormlight speculation, you won't feel lost here. There's still a depth to the book if you are heavily invested (get it?), and it holds up on a reread. It's astonishing that Brandon crafts something that feels so natural and effortless, because there are a ton of characters in Stormlight. Brandon juggles viewpoints really effectively and we see new viewpoints that add to the world a lot, but we never forget about our main characters. It's probably for this reason that this book feels so tight, because you'd think there's so much space in a book this big, but there's so much to do. Every viewpoint is precious and there's a huge amount to explore. You might even say it is almost too fast, maybe! This book is Dalinar's book, and we get a large flashback sequence from him. It has a lot more flashbacks than Kaladin and Shallan, and honestly I feel like we could have had more than we got, but Oathbringer is a lean story and everything has its piece in the grand story arc. Even though it's huge, when you read this book you'll see it really is one book. Everything is connected. Even though this could really be three shorter books, it's one connected whole. It cannot truly be split. It's one glorious, beautiful whole. Worldbuilding Of course, Brandon has always been known for his worldbuilding. He's been introducing us to the world of Roshar slowly, which sounds hilarious to say considering The Way of Kings had a big learning curve. But seriously, Roshar really has insane depth. Ten Orders of Knights Radiant, Ten Heralds, Ten Oathgates, who knows how many Desolations that happened millennia ago, the Recreance, the Voidbringers, and three Shards on Roshar. There's so much, and those are just the highlights. That alone is enough to keep us going for ten books, but wait there's so much more. How foolish of us. Oathbringer changes so much about Stormlight Archive. We get killer lore in Oathbringer. Things you've wondered for many, many years will be answered. You can really tell Brandon has been worldbuilding this for a long, long time. Things are insanely complex, but also, everything makes sense. There's so much clever, subtle foreshadowing that few have picked up on. Roshar is huge, deep, and you really can get lost in it forever, now more than ever. The beautiful thing is even though we get crazy lore in this book, there's new, absolutely freaking insane puzzles that we never could have expected. Seriously. You all have no idea. It's bonkers. How deep will the lore be just by book five? Words of Radiance ended with the summoning of the Everstorm, which would bring back the ancient enemy of Roshar, the Voidbringers. If you were worried about the Voidbringers being boring or one-dimensional villains, worry not. There's a huge amount of depth to everything with the Voidbringers. Nothing is quite as it seems. It's hard to explain how crazy Roshar is after everything we learn and everything that happens in Oathbringer. Simply put: it's bigger, more epic, and crazier than ever. But Oathbringer never is self-congratulatory on its lore; it is all in the service of this amazing story. Speaking of amazingness... The Avalanche One of Brandon's signatures in his writing is the Brandon Avalanche at the end of his books, where pacing gets very fast, and everything happens all at once. It makes for some amazing endings. You might thinking that you know Brandon's tricks. You'll know how this book goes down. Hah. That's funny. No, you haven't seen an ending like this one. If you were to compare Words of Radiance and Oathbringer's endings, it's not even remotely close which is more awesome: Oathbringer by a mile. The crazy thing is that this book has three separate climaxes. Part One alone has a completely satisfactory conclusion that you could read and say, "Yes, I got my fill, that was awesome." It has another. And then it has the grand finale. Let me try to explain: It starts with us finally seeing [REDACTED] go [REDACTED] the [REDACTED]. Then it turns out [REDACTED] didn't [REDACTED] [REDACTED] the [REDACTED], but [REDACTED], and [REDACTED]. You get [REDACTED] and it's immediately time for [REDACTED], and it's this epic [REDACTED] right away. Oh, and not only is it [REDACTED] [REDACTED], but just [redacted for swearing] [REDACTED] is [REDACTED]. It turns out [REDACTED] was the [REDACTED] [REDACTED] was [REDACTED] to be [REDACTED], and for a moment you [REDACTED]. All in [REDACTED] [REDACTED] was so [REDACTED], and [REDACTED]. [REDACTED] makes [REDACTED] [REDACTED] the [REDACTED]. All the while, [REDACTED], [REDACTED], and [REDACTED] are in [REDACTED] (because of [REDACTED]) at [REDACTED], fighting [REDACTED] and trying to get [REDACTED], but the [REDACTED] refuses to [REDACTED]. [REDACTED] tries to get [REDACTED] to [REDACTED], but [REDACTED] keeps [REDACTED]. All the while there's [REDACTED] [REDACTED] the [REDACTED]. Oh also there are [REDACTED], because why not, clearly more needed to be happening. But then, [REDACTED] (the actual chapter title), [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [redacted for swearing] [REDACTED]. [REDACTED] just [redacted for swearing] [REDACTED], or [REDACTED]. [REDACTED] faces [REDACTED] and [REDACTED] and [REDACTED], and it is so [redacted for swearing] [REDACTED]. [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [REDACTED], reaches [REDACTED], [REDACTED], [REDACTED] to [REDACTED], [REDACTED], and [REDACTED], and they are [REDACTED] into the [REDACTED] and it's so freaking amazingly awesome. You see [REDACTED] and [REDACTED]. Oh, and that's just the first half of the avalanche because then [redacted for swearing] [REDACTED] [REDACTED] with [REDACTED] and it's just insane. The most intense thing ever. Hmmm... something tells me that isn't going to come across well with me needing to redact all of that. I did actually write that paragraph, but there was so much happening that it's just a small snippet of how crazy it actually is. Despair. Triumph. The feels are so real in so many ways. It's amazing and perfect and ties everything together brilliantly. Get Hyped This is by far the best Stormlight book and the best book Brandon has ever written. I'm sure there will be some characters’ paths that some will not exactly love, and stuff will definitely break your heart, but I think all of it is necessary and fit perfectly. Brandon's learned so much since Mistborn and The Way of Kings, and it shows. Was it worth the wait? Damnation, yes. I know it's so painful to wait, but given how ludicrously complex this book is, I think Brandon should take his time to outline these. (He's said recently he's outlining Stormlight 4, which he said could take a year and a half, and I do not doubt that.) These are colossal undertakings and I can definitely see why Brandon would get exhausted writing them, even if he loves what he does. I have some worries about the Stormlight Archive as a whole, but they are good problems to have. With Words of Radiance improving on The Way of Kings, with so much more happening, and Oathbringer bringing it to a whole new scale, will the next book be even better? Well, I didn't think it was possible to top Words of Radiance, and that was totally foolish thinking about it now. So, let's consider the alternative: what if the next books are so amazing that the first book is the weakest one? All in all, many of you are here because you loved The Way of Kings, but I imagine some were turned off from that one, and it could be hard to introduce our friends to this amazing series with The Way of Kings. Still, I suppose if our biggest problem is that the later books are so incredible that the earlier ones pale a bit in comparison, that's a pretty good problem to have. I'd happily take that over a beginning that has all the good stuff there, and then have pointless sequels afterwards. Things are looking really great here, both this book and the series as a whole. Oathbringer is, I daresay, a masterpiece and I can't wait for you to read it.
  3. 82 points
    Warbreaker: Slight edit to OPs The Final Empire: Well of Ascension: Hero of Ages: TWoK:
  4. 41 points
  5. 41 points
    How about this for WoR:
  6. 39 points
    General Rules and Etiquette Policy Welcome to Sanderson Elimination! Table of Contents About Sanderson Elimination & Elimination Games General & Fair Play Rules Etiquette Policy SE Lexicon Game Formats GM Formatting Past Games About Sanderson Elimination Sanderson Elimination is the Sanderson-based, forum version of the party game Mafia/Werewolf. The most basic form of the game splits players into two groups: the Village and the Eliminators (also called the Mafia, Werewolves, etc). The Eliminators are mixed into the Villagers and their goal is to kill or outnumber the Villagers. The Villagers are trying to weed out and kill all of the Eliminators. The game is played in turns: Days and Nights. Day turns are when everyone votes on a player to lynch, and the player who accrues the most votes by the end of the day dies. Night turns are when the eliminators choose a player to kill. Often times, there are other roles involved in the game too: a Detective that can investigate a player and discover their alignment/faction, a Doctor who can protect someone, etc. So what’s the Sanderson-based version of this? Well, we take Sanderson settings and build elimination games around those. From little towns in post-Final Empire, to a party trying to cross the Shattered Plains, or a group of people staying at an inn in the Forests of Hell, or any number of other locations. We’ve seen a lot of settings and there are many more available. To get an idea of what games are coming, take a look at the signup list. If you like statistics, the SE Player and Game Stats Spreadsheet contains information about player count of each game, wins and losses, how many games each person has played, how many times each person has been an eliminator, and more.
  7. 38 points
    “Beautiful destroyer. Blunt and effective. Of all those I've claimed over this brief thousand years, you are the only one I think just might be able to understand me.” -Ruin, Hero of Ages, ch. 57. [CONTAINS OATHBRINGER SPOILERS] I once listened to a speaker presenting on the story-telling potential of role-playing MMOs. The thesis was that, through the mechanics of the open-ended game play, the players became story-tellers, crafting unique collaborative narratives through the actions and interactions of their created characters. The presentation was very well done, and I was pleased to see alternative forms of story-telling (focusing on fantasy!) getting some of the spotlight. However, I wondered about the boundaries of this story-telling model: which stories were allowed in, and which were barred at the door? “What about stories of non-violence?” I asked. While there were options available for those stories, blacksmiths or farmers, the presenter admitted that it would be difficult to advance in the games without violence of some kind, and the story-telling potential would thus be limited. Violence is often a staple of fantasy. One of the escapist attractions of the genre is that feeling of power you feel when witnessing a character you identify with have a moment of awesome. While some of us may be martial arts experts or hardened soldiers in our daily lives, many of us are not, and reading about epic heroes laying waste to their evil enemies can be an empowering and gratifying experience for those of us with frustrations we are unable to take a fist or bolt of magical energy to. There's a reason The Emperor's Soul is about Shai, and not the simple life version of her that would be created if she used her final Essence Mark. One of the reasons we read fantasy is to see extraordinary characters doing amazing things. It is important, however, to question the violence we see when reading. Is it realistic? What do these moments of awesome cost the characters? In my opinion, the cosmere books do a good job of providing diverse moments of awesome, unlike the MMOs from that presentation: Raoden reviving Elantris in a burst of light by scraping the chasm line into the ground, Sazed ascending and recreating the world with the knowledge in his metalminds, or Shallan discovering the secret of the Oathgates through scholarship and ingenuity. On the other hand, many moments of awesome in the cosmere are moments of great violence. So where does this leave us as readers? Are we, like Re-Shephir, creatures “of instinct and curiosity, drawn to violence and pain like scavengers to the scent of blood” (Oathbringer, ch. 30)? I don't think so, and furthermore, I don't think Brandon wants his readers to be mere spectators of blood sport. In particular, Brandon's characterization of Vin and Dalinar, arguably the two most violent figures in the cosmere, displays a sensitive and nuanced approach to depicting violence, thrilling readers with incredible fights scenes, without glorifying killing and death. Awe and disgust may be opposites, but they are brought together in Vin and Dalinar: the beautiful destroyers. The Mistborn Trilogy is known for its gorgeous fight scenes. Mistborn possess a grace that few cosmere killers can match. When Vin sets out with Zane to attack Cett, she doesn’t just go to make a dent in Cett’s forces. The killing is secondary, while Vin’s primary purpose is to awe Cett with her power: While we see men screaming and falling in this scene, Vin captivates the majority of the reader’s attention. She is the “terrible weapon”, a Mistborn at the height of her power. Even without atium, in this scene, Vin demonstrates to Cett’s entire army that none can stand against her. In many ways, this should be a triumphant moment for Vin. After being trapped between two armies, fearful and paralyzed with indecision, in this scene she is unleashed and allowed to stretch her abilities to their full potential. And, after patiently waiting for this moment, it is difficult not to be in awe of her. But at what cost? After decimating Cett’s forces, Vin comes across Cett and his son, one of whom she is convinced is Mistborn. Vin seeks to solve her problems with Cett through violence, but when she finally reaches him, she finds she cannot. Though she commands him to fight her, neither Cett nor his son, Gneorndin, can respond to her challenge. Brandon excites us by setting Vin loose to use her powers, but even the incredible, dazzling violence Vin unleashes is not an answer to her problems. The next morning, when Elend finds Vin, she is consumed with regret, confessing that while her old crew leader, Camon, was brutal and terrible, she likely killed more people in a single night than he had in his entire life. She goes on to say: “My entire life has been death, Elend. Death of my sister, the death of Reen. Crewmembers dead around me, Kelsier falling to the Lord Ruler, then my own spear in the Lord Ruler’s chest. I try to protect, and tell myself that I’m escaping it all. And then…I do something like I did last night” (The Well of Ascension, ch. 44). Following her massacre, Vin struggles to come to terms with being both surviving and causing great violence. This personal conflict is eventually resolved in Hero of Ages, when Vin uses the power of Preservation to destroy herself and Ruin, but along the way Brandon is careful to remind his readers of the human cost associated with his awesome fight scenes, both for the victims, and for the destroyer herself. Brandon continues his discussion of the relationship between beauty and destruction in Oathbringer. Like Vin, violence gives Dalinar a sense of purpose: Dalinar, and the reader along with him, fall under the Nergaoul’’s seductive spell. This moment is one of many where Dalinar is described as being more than a man. Here, he is judgement, sent by the Almighty to test the skill and worthiness of his enemies. While fighting with Blade and Plate might lack some of the otherworldly elegance of Mistborn or Windrunners, Dalinar’s fight scenes in Oathbringer remain captivating, even in their brutality. After hearing about the might and power of the Blackthorn in his prime, the reader is encouraged here to indulge as they enjoy watching Dalinar be awesome (sorry Lift, but you can’t hog it all to yourself). The way Brandon describes Dalinar in these fight scenes resembles how he describes Vin: both come to think of themselves as concepts or roles, rather than as individual people: Vin as Mistborn, and Dalinar as judgement. And yet, even the Blackthorn, who, despite his later redemption is likely the most brutal character in the cosmere, retains enough humanity to recognize the horror of what he is doing: Dalinar’s Shards and incredible fighting skills give him great power to defeat his enemies, but Brandon is quick to point out that there is a cost to getting lost in the glory of battle by emphasizing the destruction Dalinar has caused, and by highlighting that some of Dalinar’s own men also fell to his onslaught. After defeating the enemy general, Kalanor, Dalinar struggles to feel satisfied with his victory: It is this voice which drives Dalinar to continue his killing spree beyond what is necessary to win the battle. He wonders, “Shouldn’t the strongest rule? Why should he sit back so often, listening to men chat instead of war?” (Oathbringer, ch. 26). It is only after the Thrill almost drives Dalinar to kill his brother Gavilar that Dalinar stops and realizes what he has done. Gavilar’s celebration of Dalinar’s great victory is undermined by Dalinar’s feelings of guilt and shame for almost killing his brother. Despite Dalinar’s aptitude for war and fighting, and his oft emphasized disdain for conversation and politics, his great skill and power are not enough to satisfy him. Like Vin, Dalinar’s power and might leave him unfulfilled and unable to solve his problems. When he finally remembers burning the Rift, the voices of Evi and the children he killed haunt him: “Hypocrite, they said. Murderer. Destroyer” (Oathbringer, ch. 100). As he remembers his past, the actions that made Dalinar a fearsome warrior are a source of torment, rather than triumph, for him. Throughout Oathbringer, Dalinar often remarks about how difficult it is to adjust his thinking and unify people with politics and persuasion rather than by brute force, and how ill suited he is to the task of brokering peace. Both Hero of Ages and Oathbringer end with their respective destroyers overcoming inner turmoil to find some measure of self-acceptance. Vin determines that she can destroy to protect and is able to use Preservation in a way Leras never could. In doing so, she overcomes destruction incarnate by defeating Ruin, arguably the greatest destroyer the in the cosmere. Faced with a seemingly unstoppable force in Odium and the Fused, Brandon makes the reader think Dalinar may succumb to his past of destruction and violence and become that which he set out to defeat: Odium’s Champion. Armed with a book and, more importantly, the convictions it has taught him, Dalinar refuses to be a destroyer any longer. While Vin conquers destruction, she does so through continued violence. With Dalinar, Brandon takes his examination of violence further. Despite all of the breath-taking fight scenes in Oathbringer, the most awe-inspiring scene in the novel, and the crux of the epic climax, is the moment Dalinar, surrounded by gloryspren, refuses to give Odium his pain and opens the perpendicularity. In that moment, Daliner bests Odium, not with force, but by taking responsibility for his actions. Similarly, Dalinar overcomes Nergaoul with understanding, rather than a contest of force: While his history of struggle and violence is what allows Dalinar to capture Nergaoul, the capture itself, and the subsequent defeat of Odium’s forces, does not come about through violence on Dalinar’s part. Instead, Dalinar embraces the Thrill, thanking it for what it did for him in the past, and drawing it in close. He convinces it to rest in the gemstone. Like Vin overcoming Ruin, in this scene Dalinar, the destroyer, overcomes a divine force of destruction in a captivating way, but he does it without resorting to violence himself. In both Vin and Dalinar, Brandon sets out heroes who struggle with their self definition in the face of the violence they have committed against others. Brandon juxtaposes the hauntingly beautiful action sequences against the emotional impact those acts of violence have on the human soul, allowing his readers to enjoy the display while still being critical of that enjoyment. In their greatest moments, Brandon shows Vin and Dalinar overcoming violence and destruction, despite their status as destroyers, demonstrating that the ‘moments of awesome’ fantasy is known for do not always need to be violent ones, and that the beauty of destruction comes at a cost. _________ Post Script: As it turns out, Brandon himself has commented on the concept of beautiful but terrible violence in the Well of Ascension Annotations. Unfortunately, I did not find this quote until after I finished the essay above, but it has probably been bouncing around in the back of my head since I originally read it way back when. Enjoy Brandon’s take on the violence in Well of Ascension: Image Credit: "Vin in the Mists" by Xenia de Vries. You can also find her work on Instagram! Used with permission.
  8. 30 points
  9. 28 points
    Today was a relatively quiet day in the Restaurant at the End of the Cosmere. Most of the usual people were here, nursing their drinks, talking in quiet tones. They were all worldhoppers, of course. Drawn from all the corners of the Cosmere: Sel, Scadrial, Roshar, Nalthis, Taldain and Threnody. Rosharan heat fabrials warmed the restaurant, while the walls had been tastefully decorated by a native of Nalthis with the Fifth Heightening, so it looked aesthetically pleasing from almost any angle. The floors were plain tile, and at a corner was a Scadrialian machine that played music, operated by a sleepy Scadrilian armed with a bandolier of medallions. The machine only played Scadrilian music, which often annoyed the Nalthis worldhoppers with the second Heightening, but it was tolerated. There was a shining pool outside the entrance, which many worldhoppers used to get here from the Physical Realm. The bartender was always there, greeting newcomers, catching up on news, serving drinks. Only very few of the patrons knew who he truly was, and they weren’t telling. (Yes of course Khriss knows). A sign on the wall stated the rules of the Restaurant. Brawling of any kind is prohibited, either with Awakened Objects, Allomancy, Feruchemy, Hemalurgy, Surgebinding, AonDor, Soulforging, Sand Mastery or plain physical brawling No interplanetary warmongering Be nice to each other. No Hoid. At one table, some of the Seventeenth Shard were grumbling over their drinks about their long drawn-out and futile search for that impossible, thrice-cursed Hoid. They had been joined by a new member, Wan ShaiLu from Sel, whom Galladon had apparently recruited when she showed up in Elantris. She was cursing his name very creatively indeed. They had just come from Roshar, intending to go to Nalthis next. (The King’s Wit was probably laughing very hard indeed all the way in Roshar.) Kelsier sat in a far corner, (Without Marsh today, thankfully) nursing his metal-sprinkled ale. (You had to specify which world’s ale you were ordering, or you might end up with Selish Connection drinks, which made you want to draw for hours, or Rosharan Horneater Ale, which could melt cups.) Being a Cognitive Shadow rather than a physical being inside the Cognitive Realm, he didn’t actually need to drink, but he liked to keep up the pretense. Besides, he liked having Demoux worship him whenever he walked in, which often caused Seventeenth Shard meetings to be delayed. Mostly he sat, absorbing the gossip from all around the Cosmere, always grinning at people at seeming like he was formulating some dark, deep plot. At another end, Khriss was scribbling down her latest thoughts on life, the universe, and everything. Alternately, she could be writing her next Ars Arcana, having just visited Sel. Kenton half dozed beside her. Nazh was doodling Aons on a piece of parchment, thankful for the break. There had been a particularly hasty escape when Nazh had tried to study a naked Dakhor monk at Khriss’ request. She owed him a drink for that one. And there were the Kandra, of course. Mysterious group, they tended to keep to themselves when they visited the restaurant. They never stayed long, only coming in for a short drink before going to whatever Shardworld Harmony was currently showing an interest in. They tended to switch back to their natural forms inside the restaurant, which freaked people out, of course. That’s probably why no one knew their names yet despite them having frequented the bar for years. Vasher had dropped in for another visit in between his trips from Nalthis to Roshar. As per usual, he had a large pile of empty mugs beside him and was currently holding another pint of ale. Vivenna sat beside him, primly reading a book. Blessedly, Nightblood was nowhere to be seen. Iyatil was back, taking Mraize for another spot of Worldhopping. They had just visited Scadrial, and apparently were due for a visit to Threnody, seeing as how Mraize had been bartering for silver knives at the restuarant’s small merchandise stall. Silver was always in good stock in the restaurant, seeing as how nobody wanted their drinks interrupted by a bunch of red-eyed cognitive shadows. The restaurant filled with a quiet, content hum. News flashed relatively quickly through the Worldhopper community. A plot on Scadrial, Harmony facing a red mist. Kandra quietly inquiring after ‘Trell’. Roshar was a dangerous place to be in, currently, due to the Everstorm coming. Business as usual in Sel and Nalthis. On another note, Joshin and Mi’chelle were settling in nicely at Scadrial. Congratulations all around. The bell rang hesitantly, and a ragged figure entered. Her dress was tattered, and hemmed at the knees. She had a glove made of the same material as her dress on her left hand. She was tall, regal, although looking much the worse for wear. She had violet eyes and was currently holding a rather large Shardblade. Rosharian. She blinked, taking in the scene before her. The other worldhoppers barely spared her a glance before returning to their respective conversations. The bartender smiled and waved her over to an empty table. Jasnah Kholin blinked again. “I’m at a bar,” she stated in her flattest voice, “In the middle of the Shadesmar.” Only Vivenna stood to welcome her, shooting an exasperated glance at an inebriated Vasher. “Hello, stranger. You would best leave your weapon outside. Welcome to the Restaurant at the End of the Cosmere!”
  10. 27 points

    From the album Stormlight Drawings

    I started drawing spren and can't stop...I'm probably going to end up with a series of all the spren characters.
  11. 24 points
    This month, we are beginning a brand-new initiative for the Coppermind. The Coppermind is a living, breathing thing, and there's so much to write that it's impossible to have the wiki succeed without your help. But often, people are interested in writing for the Coppermind but don't know where to start. To this end we are going to have monthly objectives to help guide people towards what should be done. Our plan is to have a mix of larger tasks as well as smaller tasks that are much less of a time commitment. If you're new to editing the Coppermind, don't worry; we'll help you out with guides and plenty of assistance. You don't need experience, just the will to do help out! We'll also provide awards, because everyone loves fake internet points. So, here are our objectives for July. There's still so much from Oathbringer and Stormlight to do, so we're focusing on that this month. (And, let's face it, probably for the next little while, too.) We're going to try and make things fairly focused. Larger Projects 1. Kaladin's History in Oathbringer Part Three Kaladin's article needs a lot of updating for Oathbringer, but let's start by just updating the events in Part Three and getting that up to speed. 2. Siege of Kholinar Behold, one of the worst articles on the wiki! Yeah, this needs vast expansion. For subsections that should be here, you can look at the article structure for battles. 3. Lopen We know there's Lopen fans, and if you're a fan of Lopen you should hate this criminally short article of his! 4. Hesina You know, a lot of people worry when they start on the Coppermind, "oh no, I'll screw something up!" And I can understand that, especially for big character articles. But if you just look at Hesina's article you'll quickly realize that you cannot possibly screw this up, because it is so short and so bad. It is criminal that no one has given this one more attention! 5. Update Rysn for Oathbringer Rysn just has one interlude, but it's pretty meaty. Let's update her article with all the Oathbringer stuff and call it good. 6. Roshone Oathbringer Stuff Similar to Rysn, Roshone doesn't have a big role to play in Oathbringer, but there's still stuff to add in all of his sections. 7. Mraize's History from Words of Radiance If you look around the Coppermind, you'll see that in most character articles, the longest section is the History, where the events of their lives (and in turn, events from the books) are chronicled. Well you know who doesn't have a history section? Mraize. Literally none! Let's start by writing down what he did in Words of Radiance first. 8. Celebrant How about a location article to mix things up? Celebrant is cool. Let's get everything down about this place from Part Four of Oathbringer. For guidance, see our article structure for cities. 9. History of the Refounded Windrunners So on the Order of Windrunners page, there's a lot of stuff on what's going on with them magically, but we should also have some information about the refounding of the Windrunners. What happened there? Obviously, if we learned more about the history of the Windrunners before the Recreance, that would go on this page too, but we don't have too much on it at the moment. 10. Wax's History in Alloy of Law And for a non-Stormlight bonus, there's Wax's article. The history of his literally ends when he arrives back in Elendel. Let's start with working on his history during what happens in Alloy of Law, to say nothing of Shadows of Self and Bands of Mourning. Smaller tasks These are tasks that are much shorter and involve characters that are minor. But hey, minor things are important to have done too! Most of these articles are so short that they will not require separate sections. For short articles, include as much as you can possibly think of about them. 1. Skybreaker acolytes Szeth meets a lot of Skybreaker acolytes in Oathbringer. None have too much on them. They are: Warren, Joret, Cali, Zedzil, Ty 2. Lunamor's family Of course, we get Rock's family in this one, and his family is big! This includes: Tuaka, Gift, Cord, Rock (junior), Star, Kuma'tiki, Beautiful Song 3. Kaladin's singer squad Kaladin meets various singers in Part One of Oathbringer. Let's complete these up: Khen, Sah, Vai, Hesh, Jali 4. Wall Guard squadmembers Another Kaladin squad (Kaladin getting another squad, what's new) from Part Three of Oathbringer. This could be really good to do if you're also doing Siege of Kholinar or Kaladin's Part Three History. These are: Deedanor, Noromin, Alaward, Beard, Hid, Hadinar, Vaceslv, Vardinar, Ved 5. Fladm This is a minor guard who dies in Rsyn's interlude. 6. Insah This article refers to a character referred to once in Oathbringer Chapter 50. Include as much detail as possible, but there's not much here. 7. Mara Mara is Lirin's apprentice when Kaladin returns to Hearthstone. 8. Fullnight Fullnight is a bit harder than the last two. It's Dalinar's gelding in his first flashback, but there still isn't much about him. 9. Helt This is a master-servant to Elhokar in Urithiru. This should be a fast one. 10. Hariel This is one of the Fused, who took over Demid's body. There's some to expand on here but again, very little. When you are totally done with an article, change the text at the bottom from {{stub}} or {{partial}} to {{complete}}. What's in it for me? We want to motivate people to help, so we will be giving out Coppermind awards for the users in July with the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd most edits, and we'll also give out awards if you contributed to one of these items. They'll be on your user page for all to see. Okay, I'm in, how do I to start? The most important thing is to be bold! Content is hard to write, but we can always format your stuff if it doesn't quite match conventions. MediaWiki notation is not the easiest to learn. If you're interested, we have lots of guides to help. It does very much help to have ebooks so you can find instances of a specific word or person. (This is extremely helpful for minor characters). If you have physical books, ask us and we can help you determine this so you don't need to reread the whole text. Come join us on the dedicated Coppermind Discord, or come chat in the #coppermind channel on the 17th Shard Discord. We are really happy to help. Lastly, but certainly not least, we have something pretty special that's happened on the wiki that we would like to spotlight. Through a lot of effort, people have been able to figure out where the continent of Roshar is on the planet, and look what the user Otto didact has made: sweet, sweet maps highlighting locations on Roshar. For example, Alethkar: Emul: And for bodies of water: How awesome are these? They are just spectacular. Give Otto a big round of applause!
  12. 22 points
    Could ideal 4 already be written out? It can't that simple but... Vasher did guide him to the third ideal. “Sometimes, Vasher wondered if the two weren’t really the same thing. Protect a flower, destroy the pests who wanted to feed on it. Protect a building, destroy the plants that could have grown in the soil. Protect a man. Live with the destruction he creates.” Excerpt From Warbreaker Brandon Sanderson
  13. 21 points
    This idea started for me during the sample chapters, it's evolved some to include more so I wished to expand what I started here. Much of what's in the old thread will be repeat here, but I think I've fleshed it out more for (hopefully) a different and more in depth discussion. The Forms I believe that the singers are born without a spren bond. This would mean that they are born without a "form" but have a base physiology that is unaltered by a Spren. This is not Dullform, but something distinct. I base this on the following words from Eshonai and Venli's mother in Words of Radiance This implies a coming of age ceremony in which a listener went into the storms to bond a spren for the first time. So I believe that this lack of form, or "Birthform" is the natural unbonded state of a singer. I think that this is the form that we see in the Singers that were healed by the Everstorm. I find it highly suspicious that we are never once shown a child of the listeners. The first time we see a child of the singer race is Sah's daughter, in the same form as all of the other restored Parsh. These seems to be an obfuscation to me. Next we have Dullform. It appears through the text that when a singer enters the storm to adopt a form, each Form is tied to a specific spren. Hence the search for creation Spren, and hopefully, Artform. If this is the case, why is Dullform an expected result of experimenting with new spren? I believe that Dullform is not a true "form" but a protective mechanism. When the Spren enters into the gemheart, I think that it merges with the spiritweb in a specific location, integrating into the Spiritual Aspect to alter the Physical form and thought process of the Singer, but only if the Spren is a viable option for a form. In the event that the Spren is not viable I think dullform occurs. The portion of the spiritweb that normally integrates with the Spren instead retracts, resulting in a dormant portion of their Spiritual aspect. This dulls the rhythms, reduces Cognitive function, and pushes them into a "form" very similar to another we've seen. Slaveform, or the Parshmen, also have reduced Cognitive function, and are completely incapable of bonding with spren or detecting the rhythms. I believe that this is because the same portion of the Spiritual Aspect that integrates with the Spren in a proper form, or retracts in Dullform, is fully excised. The physical similarities between Slaveform and Dullform are not coincidence. They appear similar because they are both nearly the same thing. Dullform is just more complete Spiritually. The Last Legion The group of Singers that became the listeners were a part of the "Last Legion." a group that now seems to have been composed of Regals, connected to Ba-Ado-Mishram to gain Voidlight in the false desolation, and Mateforms out of necessity. And with the knowledge of those two Non-Voidforms, a group from the Last Legion adopted Dullform to escape their gods, inadvertently saving themselves from the excision forced on the rest of their race. I believe this was possible precisely because of the protective mechanism of Dullform. The spiritweb retracts, and the connection that BAM had forged with them all through the use of the Voidforms was also withdrawn. Whatever Melishi attempted that imprisoned BAM and simultaneously crippled every other living singer, was unable to reach out and excise the Spiritual Aspects of those in Dullform. To this use of the Surges, just as to a non-viable spren, that section of the spiritweb was already gone. The Rhythms In the Slaveform singers, the rhythms are completely absent. I belive that this is because the portion that was excised and integrates with spren is the exact same piece of the spiritweb that allows for the rhythms to be detected. In Slaveform, it is absent. In Dullform they are diminished. In a true form, they are filtered through the Spren, in the variety that we have always seen listeners sense them. In a Voidform, they are altered by the investiture that has corrupted the Spren. I think this is why all of the "new" rhythms are tinged with anger and disgust. They are the old rhythms, twisted into something hateful. To attune one of the rhythms that are familiar to the original forms is difficult for someone in a Voidform, and the majority of the time that we see Venli do it is in the presence of Timbre, making me think that her proto-bond may have helped to diminish the influence of the Voidspren in her gemheart. That's it for now. Tell me your thoughts. Tear it apart. Discuss.
  14. 19 points
    Previous WoB has shown that the names of many of our favorite Northern Scadrians from the Central Dominance sound French. Without “hearing” the language or seeing it written, we can only assume it, as a whole, is French sounding. source As I’ve been re-reading BoM, I noticed that Allik’s use of language sounded distinct from what we’ve been accustomed to from Northern Scadrial. His words reminded me of a Germanic language. I first noticed this when he used the medallion to speak in the language of our protagonists, because he kept ending sentences with “yah”. This is the same sound that the word “yes” in German makes, and is spelled “ja”. Then came the word “Jaggenmire” that didn’t translate to our protagonists’ language. Marasi tried to pronounce it and came up with the following: She hears the “Ja” sound as a “yay” sound, which is similar to Allik’s frequent use of “yah”. This was further evidence to me that Allik’s language is Germanic in nature. Now it was time to dig deeper, and find other words to help provide evidence for my hypothesis. After further research, I think his language is actually linguistically similar to Northern Germanic— i.e., Scandinavian, specifically Danish. (Note, Denmark is literally just north of Germany.) I started my linguistic sleuthing with Allik’s name and googled German names similar to “Allik”, and came up with the following list (with their meanings): · Alrik: “Noble Leader” · Aldrik: Noble Friend” It appears that the shared root is “Noble”. Maybe this means something about who Allik will be one day? However, these names added an extra consonant, so I kept looking and found the name “Alek” in Danish. Alek is short for Aleksander, which means “Defender of Men”. Is this where Allik gets his name from? Will he be a defender of Southern Scandrian peoples and a noble friend to our protagonists? Allik’s name wasn’t enough for me. What about words that he says in his language? My favorite words he used were the names for Preservation and Ruin: I first googled to see if these names were German words. “Herr” means “Lord” in German…this seemed like a good sign to me! Unfortunately, “Frue” is not a German word. But it is Danish. In Danish, it literally means “wife” or “Ma’am” and “Herr” literally means “Mister”. So we have Mister and Missus…just like how Allik describes them. When Allik first realized Wax was an Allomancer he said a few words aloud in his own language that Marasi overheard: “Fottenstall” doesn’t really translate to much, even if “fotten” means “feet” in Norwegian. However “hanner konge” has a very interesting meaning in Danish: “Male King”. Allik notes that Wax seems very powerful, like the Sovereign, and thinks he needs to always use some type of title for him. The Sovereign described himself as a former King from Northern Scadrial. Thus, it doesn’t surprise me that Allik may be asking Marasi if Wax is a king. I didn’t look at very many other words other than these, because all of this already seemed like good evidence that the Southern Scadrian language is similar to Northern Germanic languages, specifically Danish. If people from Northern Scadrial speak with a French accent/sound, then it seems entirely plausible that the southerners speak some type of Germanic/Scandinavian language, given the clues. What do you all think?
  15. 15 points
    Super long post warning but I will put some parts behind a spoiler tag to make it a little more manageable. My opinion on this question has changed completely since I first finished OB. I believe a surface read of this aspect of the book would likely lead to one conclusion while in depth discussion and a very detailed reread has led me to another. Initially I thought it was over, Shadolin was the conclusion and to me it was an extremely dissatisfying one. It seemed as though Brandon chose the quickest, easiest way to end the love triangle (that never really was). This seems to be what a lot of readers actually were hoping for (a speedy, low drama end) so I can understand why if that is your view you wouldn’t want to look further at it. That’s not me however, so after much discussion and rereading I am now convinced it isn’t over and feel much more satisfied with the quality of this aspect of the story as a result. I’ll lay out some of the major reasons that convinced me that it isn’t over. If I had to sum it up in with one argument I would say that in order to see the ending of Shallan’s romantic arc in OB as satisfying, I believe it is necessary to accept that Adolin actually chose a whole, real Shallan when he squeezed her hand and she thought, “That’s the one. That’s the one I am. He knows.” If instead you believe as I do now that he actually chose the one personality that she had shown him and presented as her true self, it is much harder to see the wedding as a satisfying end to this arc. Honestly even if he had known and been able to identify a true, whole Shallan I still would have had a problem with the way it was written because it would depict Shallan as completely dependent on Adolin to know herself. But having it not even be her whole self is even worse. Let me explain in more detail from the text why I believe that the Shallan he recognized was not her whole self but a persona. So at the end Shallan (apparently the Shallan persona based on the above evidence) thinks that Veil and Radiant are not her, but is she correct? There is a lot of evidence both in text and out of text that Shallan is wrong. Most likely she knows this deep down, but is lying to herself and not facing things that she doesn’t want to, which is her usual pattern. So let’s look at the words of both Wit and Brandon for evidence that Veil and Radiant are actually Shallan. When Veil has her breakdown in Kholinar, and Wit tells her the story of the Girl Who Stood Up, he refers to the personas as Shallan’s “other minds” and that she is the one who “birthed them.” He shows her illusions of herself, including one that is standing which Shallan senses has all of her pain and memories, which have been smothered by, “Forgiveness. For herself.” Shallan says she cannot be that person, but Wit tells her, “I only see one woman here. And it’s the one who is standing up. Shallan, that has always been you. You just have to admit it. Allow it. It’s all right to hurt.” These words are echoed back to Shallan at an interesting time. In Part 4, she is drawing and realizes it is childish: “Veil was seeping out. That has always been you, Shallan. You just have to admit it, allow it.” This is a clear statement that Veil is Shallan, with Wit's words saying that is her coming immediately after Veil appears. As for the WoB, we have this: These indicate that Veil and Radiant are not separate people from Shallan and in fact he places Veil and Shallan on equal footing in the second quote as both are described as “personalities.” He doesn’t actually name which two personalities he means, but from the text it is clear that by the end the Veil personality is in love with Kaladin and the Shallan personality is in love with Adolin. Radiant is never said to be in love with anyone. Early on it is said that she likes Adolin and it is clear that Shallan has some intention that Radiant could be the perfect bride for Adolin but in the end Radiant also chooses Kaladin (though from a logical not emotional standpoint). So by the end Shallan has become the dominant personality, pushing Veil and Radiant (who both would choose Kaladin) to the side. She tells herself that they are not her but this conflicts with textual evidence and the WoB. There’s a lot more to break down in the pre-wedding scene but I will save that for another post because this is already too long. Suffice it to say when you really break down that scene there are some alarming indications that not all is well which provides some additional evidence that this isn’t over. In the end I just can’t believe that if Brandon wanted us to be satisfied with Shadolin that he would have written it this way. Again, I can understand how the immediate impression would be that Shadolin is end game, because they are married and Shallan says she loves him and she thinks that Adolin knows her, but a lot of that falls apart with further inspection. I definitely understand how people that aren’t that into romantic arcs in general or hate love triangles or really wanted Shadolin to begin with might view it differently, but the text has convinced me to change my mind on it.
  16. 14 points
    The Final Empire The Stormlight Archive
  17. 14 points
    Alright, it, in my opinion, has nothing to do with denying Veil and Radiant or accepting them, but with how someone views them. I'm not going to repeat everything @BraidedRose said, but what Wit's advice boils down to is basically: Shallan should return to the woman she was. The woman, that didn't fracture herself into Veil, Radiant and Shallan. This is basically reintegrating all these personas into herself again. For this she'd have to accept her pin though, since that pain was the largest. catalyst for the fracturing. Adolin sees Veil and Radiant as different people, because that is how Shallan told him it and I don't blame him. She always wore a mask for him, so he never before has *seen the Veil and Radiant traits, that Shallan possesses*. If he really fell in love with Shallan, he fell in love with that mask, that basically is what is left of "Shallan" after her fracturing. Scholarly, a bit quirky, but the good Vorin girl. The problem I see is, that Shallan now has this big motivation of keeping Veil, Radiant and Shallan seperated, because Adolin chose "Shallan". This is counterintuitive to what Wit has told her. She might be stable now, but also stagnant, because it also is the opposite of being self-aware. She is keeping up the lie of her not being Veil and Radiant. I don't think, that it will have bad implications for their relationship though, if the status quo continues. And I see no reason why Adolin would change his view on Veil and Radiant. Problem is, that this will hinder Shallan in progressing. IMHO. Kaladin... Now he. He has seen Shallan show Veil-like behavior (Boots scene and partly in the chasms) and Radiant-like behavior (The chasms again, where she built the alcove for them, while he had a broken leg). If he fell in love with her, he fell in love with *all* of her. Also I think, that Kaladin would be one that would challenge her, if she outright told him of Veil and Radiant. He would probably be dumbfounded and tell her, that he never noticed, because for him she always has been like that. And that is what I think Shallan needs. Not confirmation, that leaves her stable, but stagnant. But a different perspective, a nudge, that brings her to think. I think, Kaladin would provide that. And I also have no inclination to believe, that he would be unsupportive. I've stated this before, but when it comes to mental issues, blind support can be just as harmful as no support.
  18. 13 points
  19. 13 points
    He cut her off. He was tactless. No way around it. I do kinda agree with your second paragraph though. And yet, Kaladin constantly gets rust for not immediately realizing, what she meant with "fracturing"... Double standards... @BraidedRose last post has a pretty good paragraph about, why Kaladin didn't realize it, but for some reason, these posts always get ignored.
  20. 13 points
    The Way of Kings Words of Radiance The Well of Ascension
  21. 12 points
    When you realise that you are the only lighteyes in your friend group and wonder if you should exercise your divine right to rule.
  22. 12 points
    You know you're a Sanderfan when this happens: Friend: so, forgetting anything? Me: what? Friend: it's my birthday, how could you forget? Me: sorry, my copperminds are so messy... Friend: *facepalm*
  23. 12 points
    You know you’re a Sanderfan when this happens... Friend: I like these coins Me: You’ll like them even more after you read Mistborn Friend: (sarcastically) Why, because you eat them? Me: No... Friend: Then what? Me: ...well, I guess you could— that is, if the metals are pure. Otherwise, you get sick. Friend: (looks at the coins) These are pure... (pretends to eat a coin) Me: (laughs) They’re so stormin’ pure, they practically belch rainbows! Friend: What? Me: Book reference... (proceeds to laugh uncontrollably)
  24. 12 points
    I’ll try to address what I think Adolin should have done. For starters I think a big part of the issue for me is that he just doesn’t question Shallan on this enough. He says she becomes “other people.” She kind of implies that so that’s where he gets the idea and then she never corrects him because at some point she seems to think that herself. I’ve already gone into detail on why I don’t believe Veil and Radiant are “other people.” But the problem with that is, if he thinks she is just playing roles, why doesn’t he question why one of the roles is in love with another man? He thinks Shallan is in love with Kaladin and she claims she just likes looking at him and it’s all Veil who is attracted to him. I guess he assumes she just gets so deep into the role but it doesn’t make any sense. Veil is not a person that exists outside of Shallan so there would be no need for her to emulate someone else’s feelings. Those feelings do come from her. Adolin just accepts that rather lame excuse and Shallan manages to overwhelm him into marrying her despite his doubts. He should challenge her more, ask her more questions, try to actually understand what is going on, rather than just taking her at her word. Essentially that is what I think Kaladin would do if he knew Veil and Radiant existed. I just can’t see him letting that go and not trying to understand more. As @SLNC said he has good reason to believe that Shallan sometimes acts like Veil and Radiant because he has seen her with those traits (ones Shallan admits she hides from Adolin). He does notice a difference in her attitude towards him between Shallan and Veil once she starts splitting that in Kholinar but he doesn’t have enough information to even guess at what is going on nor is he in a position to demand answers from her as Adolin is. People may bring up how Kaladin seems to admire her ignoring her pain (based on the conversation they have in Shadesmar) but I think the reason that conversation went so sideways is because he doesn’t know Veil and Radiant exist. What he is thinking of is the Shallan he saw in the chasms who was far more whole, not the fracturing she has been doing since which he is unaware of. He saw a woman who had experienced pain that would be crippling for most (as it had been for Kaladin at times), but she was able to smile and go on living. That’s what he admires and that fits with the image Wit shows Shallan of the Shallan who stands up, who has all the painful memories underneath but covers that with forgiveness for herself.
  25. 12 points
    I kind of like Adolin as a person, but I don't like him as a character, and after OB this second part started to dominate. The fact that he doesn't get much development isn't exactly the main reason - it's ok given he's secondary/tertiary/whatever. First, I have less of a problem with Adolin than with his storyline. It annoys me how everything turns out for the best for him. He got the looks, wealth, power, relatively decent family (except for young Dalinar, obviously, but he doesn't know half of it anyway), talent and pleasant personality, and now he also got the girl, Get Out of Jail Free card and hopes for Radiance on top of it all. Even when the world is ending, his life is as bright and shiny as it gets. Given what the other characters go through, he stands out as the monument of Life Is Not Fair. The problem I have with Adolin more personally is actually connected to that. He's never bothered. He had some worries about Dalinar in WoK, and then got a moment with Sadeas, but that's pretty much it - and it's been a while. I know he's meant to light up the mood, but there are... limits. He murdered a guy? Fine with it. He needs to re-establish his place in the era of wonders? Oh, well, I guess they're awesome. A family member dies? I'll think about it later. My father is going to die? I'll worry a bit (?) but less than Kaladin. My fiancee likes another guy? Well, understandable. Oh, she doesn't? Ok then, let's get married. It makes me want to smack him upside the head to finally get some reaction.
  26. 12 points
    I think you're referring to the vase thing, right? Okay, so we can all agree on the real Shallan being broken, right? You see, Adolin completely misunderstands her here. She is the vase, not what is inside the vase, which is what Adolin thinks. She is the crack in the vase, so she puts forth the parts of her, that she thinks aren't broken to hide the flaw. Veil, the conwoman (let's face it, she has been conning everyone from the beginning), Radiant, the Radiant, and Shallan, the scholar. All of this combined: That is Shallan, as we've seen her before, not some different new person, that is being hidden by all of them. Trauma has broken them apart and Shallan is unwilling to accept, that she is all of them combined, because switching between them allows her to function, without quite being herself. Think about it... It doesn't make sense, if Veil and Radiant were different persons, because firstly, like you yourself said, they are based on herself, but secondly, and most importantly, everything she does, when she thinks she is Veil or Radiant, she actually does herself. All of the persona stuff, just in her head. She is perfectly capable to do all the stuff, she does as Veil and as Radiant by herself. It is just her traumatized mind rebelling against it, because she is not accepting the pain. She's hiding from it. And her pre-wedding scene is just another juxtaposition of accepting the pain. She is forcing herself to be happy, which indeed is not what happiness should be like. She is keeping Veil and Radiant around, because she still can't accept the pain. Regarding Adolin knowing the real Shallan: Boy, he doesn't know anything yet.
  27. 12 points
    There is some really interesting discussion going on about how Brandon failed to convince the segment of the readers that he needed to as @maxal and @Dreamstorm have pointed out. This really is the fundamental question. Since such a significant segment of readers didn't think this storyline was satisfying and those who did are largely those who are less interested in romantic arcs, the question is did Brandon fail or is there more to it? As explained before, I initially thought Brandon failed but I changed my mind. I think Brandon knows he set up some expectations that Kaladin and Shallan would have a love story. Brandon has said himself that when subverting expectations you have to really sell the audience on your alternative and make them believe it is even better. An important scene for doing that would have been the scene immediately before the wedding. I want to examine it in detail, because it seems to indicate a different intention entirely. I've quoted most of it and spoilered it for length. I left out two sections, the first is most of the reunion with her brothers and the second is the letter from Mraize since these didn't give much to go on (I included ellipses where those sections were left out). First, several times it is clear in the beginning that Shallan is low-key dreading the wedding itself. She “didn’t feel ready,” and thinks of it as “an ordeal and a hassle.” She “suffered” through the preparations and thinks about how she doesn’t want this attention. When there is a knock on the door from her brothers and she thinks she is about to be called to the ceremony her immediate thought is “What? The time wasn’t up.” Most telling of all is this: Shallan is looking at herself in the mirror in all her wedding finery and then, “She wanted to shrink from it.” That is not the thought of a woman focused on love or happiness or the man she is about to marry, that is the thought of a woman who has doubts. Then there is the conversation between Pattern, Shallan, Veil and Radiant. Pattern saying, “This is a good you, Shallan,” mirrors the many times he says “a good lie.” It is an odd thing to say if Pattern thought she was truly herself, why “a good you” in that case? Why would there be multiple “yous” if Shallan was her true self? Shallan’s response is, “We’re decided on this.” Again an odd thing to say, like she needs reinforcement that this is the right decision. None of the responses she gets from Radiant or Veil are glowing; though they support her decision it seems clear that this is all about Shallan. Radiant gives Veil a look when she says, “He is good for you, I suppose. And he knows his wine. We could do far worse.” None of those are compelling reasons to marry someone. Veil then follows up with, “A celebration. A celebration of you.” This reinforces the idea that this is not about Veil or Radiant or even Adolin but only Shallan. Shallan thinks little of Adolin throughout, other than that Adolin must be suffering through gifts from the men and assuming he had come to steal a kiss. Once she decides it is a celebration of her she suddenly feels okay with enjoying this, and that sentiment is what gets repeated to herself for the rest of the scene. At one point Shallan describes herself as “giddy,” which is an odd word in this context but implies that she is not in a clear state of mind (the definition most relevant in this case is “excitable and frivolous”). The bottom line for me is that it is hard to imagine why Brandon would choose to write this scene and have it be the last word we get in the love triangle if he was trying to sell the idea that Shallan made a healthy choice to get married and that we should consider the issue resolved. In Brandon’s other romances he has made clear that the couple is in love and choosing each other wholeheartedly, he has not introduced doubts and then failed to resolve them by the crucial moment. Why would he include lines like, “She wanted to shrink from it,” if he wanted this to be the end of it? I’m not buying it.
  28. 12 points
    The first thing Nathan felt was a cold breeze, carrying the scents of pine and earth. A chill ran through him. After nine years in a steel city, he had forgotten what true, growing trees smelled like, the freshness of a sweet, earth-tinged breeze blowing through a forest. He kept his eyes closed longer than he had to, digging his toes into the spongy earth. He opened them when he heard shouting. Doctor Funtimes crouched on the ground, waving her arms wildly. “Go, Mister Hamsterface! Run and be free! But don’t spit bullets at the mice ‘cause that’s rude and if you’re a rude hamster you won’t have any little mouse friends!” Mister Hamsterface, for his part, seemed taken with the idea: In the glow of Doctor Funtimes’ flashlight, Nathan saw a small brown dot amble toward a grassy hilltop. He had nearly forgotten that grass was green. Once Mister Hamsterface was a fair distance away, Doctor Funtimes stood and shined the flashlight on him, casting her own face into shadow. She laughed. “Your clothes are stupid.” From a practical standpoint, she was right. His robe was too thin to stand up to anything more than a stiff breeze. If Fortuity had gotten his way, it wouldn’t have mattered. “I—Fortuity made me wear this.” “He’s a dirty meanieface full of lame.” At least they agreed on something. Her shoes brushed against the grass as she approached, and she turned the flashlight into a lantern when she neared. She set it down at his feet, still smiling, and pulled her sweater over her head. “You can’t wear stupid things. You’re with me now.” Relief washed over him. Every time the robe brushed against his knees, he remembered he wore a shroud. “Jeans and a T-shirt are fine.” Doctor Funtimes made a face. “Ew, no. Now, let’s see here….pink tux? No….” Rescuing him from a painful death warranted gratitude, among other things, but forcing him to wander the countryside in a tuxedo that resembled a preschooler’s painting was not one of them. “What if…” She looked up sharply, still grinning. “Hm?” No pretending he hadn’t said a word now. Nathan swallowed his fear and started over. “How about a brown pinstripe suit?” She waved her hand as though swatting a mosquito. “No, that’s for raisins.” He had no idea what that meant, but he guessed she wasn’t taken with the idea. “With red Cons. And a brown suede duster.” Doctor Funtimes laughed and clapped her hands. “Ooh, me likey!” With a wave of her hand, his robe became a pair of tailored slacks and a pale green button-down shirt. His feet were still bare, and were it not for the cold, he wouldn’t have minded. “I need more stuff.” She turned a branch into a flashlight and scampered off into the nearby wood, singing a song about water buffalo. By the second verse, she returned with something heavy and shiny draped over her shoulders. “Here,” she said, grunting with the effort as she handed it to him. “Hold this tuba.” “Where’d you get a tuba?” “From a log over there, silly! Now hold the tuba.” He held the tuba. She waved her hand again, like a conductor at an orchestra. Nathan felt the weight of the tuba decrease, shifting to his shoulders as metal became cloth. Warmth surrounded his feet as the tuba became a pair of Converse, and when the rest of the tuba was repurposed for his duster, he felt quite cozy indeed. “Thanks,” he said, inspecting his new clothes. They weren’t quite like what the Tenth Doctor had worn—the stripes were too wide and the duster a shade too dark—but he laughed anyway. “This is perfect.” “Oop, hang on a second.” Doctor Funtimes pranced over to him and took hold of his tie. She tilted her head to one side, stuck out her tongue, and waggled her fingers over the silk. White cloth became lime green so bright he thought it might glow on its own. She tucked it back into his vest. “There. Now it’s perfect.” Close enough. “Where are we?” “Tillamook Forest. I picked it ‘cause it’s fun to say. Tillamook, Tillamook—say it! Tillamook! Tillamook, Tillamook, Tillamook….” “Tillamook.” She was right: it was a fun name. If his memory of Fractured States geography served, they were about an hour from Portland, Oregon. She seemed to be in a good mood, so he dared another question. “So—uh—what about Mister Hamsterface?” Doctor Funtimes took both his hands in hers, brown eyes shining. “He’s free, Nathan. Free like a taco on Epics Eat Free Friday.” “Um.” Nathan would have laughed, had an ordinary person said those words, but she was completely serious. Or appeared to be. He couldn’t tell if her quirks were genuine or not. “You told him not to spit bullets. Would—could he do that?” She shrugged. “I dunno. If he’s eating bullets, I’m not judging.” “No, of course not.” She could transform a revolver into a hamster, bring a hat to life, and cross hundreds of miles in a second. If Fortuity was a vengeful god, she was a playful one, and her hands were warming his, her face so close he could feel her breath on his cheek. He felt suddenly dizzy. Why did you save me? He wanted to ask, but he didn’t dare. Most Epics became angry when questioned. If he angered her, she might shoot him. Or turn him into a newt. Or…actually, he had no idea what she might do. She might kill him, she might give him a straight answer, or she might laugh and challenge him to a pancake fight. Fortuity could see the future, and he had found her unpredictable. Nathan had always known chaotic Epics existed. The stories had left no doubt. But he had known it in the way he knew sunny days were possible outside Newcago, or that steel hadn’t always been worthless. He knew those things, but knowing them didn’t help him survive the endless nights or scrounge up rent money. But now a chaotic Epic was with him in a strange forest, wearing a rainbow dress and a smile, and he had no idea why she didn’t kill him where he stood. “Thanks for the clothes.” “You joined my party.” “So did Mister Hamsterface.” Doctor Funtimes laughed so long and hard she began to cough. “You silly,” she said when she got her wind back, “hamsters can’t party!” “Oh. Right. I—I was just joking.” She laughed again. “You’re silly. I like you.” Nathan thought the dizziness had passed, but it overwhelmed him once more. He hadn’t heard right. He couldn’t have heard right. “What?” Doctor Funtimes giggled, stood on tiptoe, and tapped his nose. “Your face is nice.” Her hands touched his cheeks, his eyes, his lips. “It feels like a face. I like your face.” I like you. Newcago Epics didn’t say those words often. Not to humans, at any rate. Being liked by an Epic was more than simple favor. It was a blessing, a promise of protection for as long as one was deemed worthy. Though worthiness could change, there was usually an inciting incident of some sort, one that gave the favored human a clue as to why they were favored—and how to keep the Epic’s admiration. Doctor Funtimes had given her blessing. And he had no idea why.
  29. 11 points
    The jester makes fun of YOU!
  30. 11 points
    So I was reading The Dictator's Handbook and was suddenly struck with a horrible thought. Kaladin is PERFECTLY positioned to take control of Urithiru and Alethkar from Dalinar and Jasnah. We know that he would never do this because we can see his inner thoughts, but the other characters can't and so might assume that the picture of him as the devoted and incorruptible scion of Dalinar is a facade (like Amaram's was) and act accordingly. Here are the facts as I see them: 1) Kaladin is the most potent warrior among the Radiants when it will count. This is straightforward, not only is he the only one with military training and a shardblade (sorry Dalinar) but he is shown to be a brilliantly gifted fighter in addition. You can (and probably should) make the argument that Jasnah would be more useful on a battlefield with all she can do with soulcasting, but when facing other Radiants who are resistant to soulcasting because of their investiture, the edge goes to Kaladin. 2)The Windrunners are the only order in Urithiru with multiple Radiants. This is not likely to change soon either. Rather, they are likely to expand their lead going forward based on their efforts at recruitment. 3)The Windrunners have dozens of squires to supplement their ranks. Aside from Shallan's three, they are the only order with squires at all and having a bunch of people who can surgebind is the sort of thing that might be useful. 4) There are 1000-ish bridgemen with top notch military training, equipment, and discipline. Moreover, they serve as the only bodyguards for Dalinar, his family, and some of his important commanders and brightlords. We saw how that can be potentially dangerous in the scene between Dalinar and Elhokar near the end of WoK. 5) The Windrunners and the bridgemen are not loyal to Alethkar, Dalinar, or the new queen, but Kaladin personally. History says this doesn't end well. Rome especially got into massive trouble when their armies became more loyal to their commanders than the state. At least some of these things should be known by the more politically savvy members of the Alethi court. Jasnah specifically has shown a proficiency at the cloak and dagger side of politics during her scene in WoR when she met Ivory for the first time and when the whole Renarin business at the end of OB occurred. It seems at least possible that she considers him a threat to her family dynasty and is contemplating a way to "take care" of him. That is a worst case scenario, but it seems unlikely to me that there won't be some sort of conflict in this area. I would love to hear what everyone thinks.
  31. 11 points
    Come on man, you're not supposed to discuss this outside the Obstetrician Spoiler Board
  32. 11 points
    You know you're a Sanderfan when you walk up to random people reading Mistborn, and say "I write these words in steel", and you wait for them to respond with "For anything not set in metal cannot be trusted", and if they do, you have an instant geeking out session with them.
  33. 11 points
    . When you spray-paint your flashdrive copper so you can confuse people by calling it a coppermind.
  34. 11 points
    A man spends the night drinking at various bars across town. On his way back home, he suddenly remembers that his wife had told him not to go drinking. As he's trying to think up a good excuse for why he was out all night, he passes a music shop. Neither he nor his wife are musicians, so he flips through a book for beginning musicians and comes across the word syncopation. Later, when he gets home, his wife confronts him. "Were you out drinking again?" she demands. "Nope, I was doing syncopation," the man says smugly. His wife, having no idea what this means, goes to look up the word in a dictionary. She finds this definition. Syncopation (noun): "Unsteady movement from bar to bar." (yep, that's a wah, wah, waaaaaah joke. ) True story: I played the French horn when I was in band, back in my middle school days. I joined the school's jazz band (obviously, since that's the genre of music you immediately think of when someone says "French horn"), and I was always surprised when they didn't have any sheet music for me.
  35. 11 points
    Because this is the closest I'll ever get to skill at art, I present to you good people of the shard... Stormlight Archive, as told by legos! (only characters right now, I may do some other things in the future... In order: Szeth - (assassin in white), Blackthorn, Eshonai, Elhokar, Sadeas - (grandbow), Shallan, Kaladin - (Radiant), Renarin - (bonding a Blade), Renarin - (Radiant). I just realized these belong in a gallery, all my new ones will be there
  36. 11 points
  37. 11 points
    Ah, Adolin. The guy, that everyone wants as his best friend, but falls flat on the nose as an interesting literary character. When I was freshly out of Way of Kings, my verdict of him was kinda ... indifferent. I didn't care much about him, but acknowledged him as that guy, that always just was there. After Words of Radiance and he killed Sadeas, I was getting a bit more interested in him, maybe he has flaws. Maybe his actions finally have personal consequences for him, but no. After Oathbringer, I think, we can say, that apparently he can do what he wants without any repercussions. I really don't count the Sadeas soldiers at the end of OB, because I'm talking about personal repercussions and he doesn't even know it was his fault. In fact, even none of his peers do, so he might just never learn of it. And then I began to read what the fandom says about him... and was hit with adulation extraordinaire. Okay, I thought, maybe you are wrong. So I reread certain passages, that came up again and again, namely the prostitute scene and, that scene, where he plays with that child. Doing this made me realize three things, one, these scenes are shoved into your face, that it is almost disgusting. Two, him being a nice guy is the only thing he has going for him. And three, wasn't he a lighteyes, who in general are portrayed as being quite... not as nice , no one would care about his niceness. The thing is, niceness doesn't make him interesting. He's not flawless, but what use are these flaws, if he doesn't get any personal repercussions from them? The Maya arc, if it turns out to become one, might be interesting. I agree. But because of Maya and the implications of it. Not because of Adolin, who apparently initiated the arc now by being... yep, you guessed it. Nice. Aside from his niceness, he's a walking fantasy stereotype. Prince, attractive and good at fighting. Of course, his character could be fleshed out more, but this is true about every minor character. Adolin is there to act as an observer, to provide a different perspective. Sometimes as a tool. And that is fine, but don't shoe-horn him into elevated roles, because you wish him to be like that.
  38. 11 points
    That's one thing I strongly disagree with. Tien was the most important person in Kaladins life, he loved him more than anyone. To have Shallan remind Kaladin of Tien, the most important person in his life, the only other person who could push away the darkness, and bring a light into his life, that screams that Shallan is incredibly special to Kaladin. You can argue that its a familial thing, but I just don't buy it. Just because someone reminds you of a family member, does not mean you can't love them romantically, especially in Kaladins case with Tien and Shallan.
  39. 11 points
    We've had a lot of opinions and even arguments on this one. So many, that I am really curious about the one thing that in all this noise we very much still don't have: statistics. Please vote. Don't feel obliged to comment why you chose what you did (in some cases it might be better not to, especially if you have a very strong opinion on the topic). I'd like to keep it as cold and mathematical as possible in order not to discourage input from any side, but to see the full picture. I know I'm opening a can of worms, but I hope we can avoid a cremstorm until we get some results, including the voices that are usually not so loud.
  40. 10 points
    When your mom tells you the doctor says your iron is running low, and you ask her how she knew you were an allomancer.
  41. 10 points
    When you break a spoon at your cousin's wedding reception and proceed to break it into 16 pieces, calling them "the 16 Shards of Spoondonalsium"
  42. 10 points
    I really hesitated about jumping into this, seeing how contentious it has been, which, unfortunately is what I expected from any thread relating to Adolin. The last thing I am looking to do is stir the pot again but I do want to offer a perspective from the other side. Adolin is not my favorite character. Prior to OB I would say I was probably mostly positive to neutral about him but OB didn’t do his character any favors in my view. If Adolin were a person, I’m sure I would like him. As Kaladin says, you almost have to like him. But as a character he leaves some important things to be desired. That may change for me, depending on where his character goes from here and what his overall purpose in the narrative ends up being, but for now my feelings have swung more negative. The problem I have observed though is often there are reactions to any criticism of Adolin that seem over the top, that exaggerate what is being said or seem to take the criticism of Adolin personally. To the point where I have extreme trepidation about posting this. But from my perspective it’s not just one side that leads to escalation of tensions. If someone offers some criticism or disagreement and then it is overreacted to it seems to easily escalate from there, but often it feels like an overreaction to reasonable criticism is where it starts. You’ve used some extremely strong words to describe criticism of Adolin. To be honest, a lot of the words you used feel like an exaggeration and are the kinds of things that could lead to an escalation of tensions (sheer hatred, Adolin-bashing, spewing poison). To be clear, I know you weren’t directing that at me and this is the first time I have even posted in this thread, but this just illustrates why I haven’t. But I do want to be able to disagree with an Adolin theory or offer some criticism of his character without being accused of such things (or even just responded to as if I had bashed him). And honestly, though I may not do this myself, if someone wants to “bash” Adolin, I have a hard time understanding why that is taken so personally. As long as it isn’t turned around on the person holding a different opinion, I don’t see why all opinions on a character shouldn’t be welcome in an open topic.
  43. 10 points
  44. 9 points
    It would be an honor to have some of the more creative among us such as @Brandon Sanderson, @PeterAhlstrom etc... and the critically minded of whom @Delightful, @Kaymyth, @Kingsdaughter613, @Idealistic,, @Pinnacle-Ferring, @Curiosity, @Titan Arum, @Patar, @hoiditthroughthegrapevine, @Silva and those previously mentioned who are only a small sampling to take a look and let me know what you think, what works etc... I suppose that based on interest I could release more, but for now I will release the prologue and act 1 scene 1. I look forward to the feedback and I hope you enjoy it. This play happens to be an adaptation of the biblical book of Esther. Disclaimer: Outside commentary as well minor dramatization are present both now and going forward. Play Prologue and Act 1 Scene 1 (1).pdf
  45. 9 points
    Thank you! Building off of some that have gone before... Mistborn: The Well of Ascension (and The Hero of Ages):
  46. 9 points
    Mistborn Era 1: Warbreaker: Elantris: Secret History:
  47. 9 points
    So I love Brandon. I think he is a very good writer in general and great in some areas. He's especially good at connecting theme to story and world. He's on Pixar's level of connecting the world he's built, the story, and the characters to the theme he is exploring. (Seriously, Pixar is amazing at connecting theme to character and story, except The Incredibles which struggles to nail down a theme, but is still great.) But Brandon does have a flaw. A flaw that finally became clear to me after finishing another reread of Stormlight and rereading MIstborn (both eras): Brandon is bad at writing convincing romantic relationships. I acknowledge that my personal taste does not match everyone else' s. Romances I think work (they are narratively satisfying, I like both characters, I think they work well together, Brandon has done the legwork to set the up together) Vin and Elend: Brandon's most successful romantic plot. He successfully ties it into Vin's main theme of learning to trust people and learning to be her real self. Dalinar and Navani: Brandon cheats on this one and skips all the setup and we start at; they both like each other, but Dalinar doesn't think he can be with her. They work well together as two people who have both decided to be above the judgement of society and it's nice to see an older couple done well. Those are the two. Romances I'm ok with, but fail for one reason or another: Siri and Susebron: I debated bumping this one up. It mostly works I think, but it just seems too unbalanced. Siri, who is the only one we get to see, spend the whole first half thinking she is his prisoner. Then we find out they're both prisoners. Then Siri has to teach Susebron how to read and Siri is the one in power over Susebron. 2/4 of arranged marriages. Spook and Beldre almost work, but it's too rushed, and we don't know Beldre well enough. It's well implied but too far from the main events of the story. Beldre is a tertiary character at best and Spook is a strong secondary character. Raoden and Serene: Mostly good.They both work well as individual characters and I buy them liking each other, but they just don't spend enough time together. This is also the beginning of Brandon's troubling trend of arranged marriages working out. Vivenna and Vasher: It works on all levels... except, I'm not sure if we're supposed to think of the romantically. Are they a couple? Sazed and Tindwyl: This one mostly works, but it's a little rushed, and seems a little like Fridging, introducing a romantic plot for Sazed just to kill her off to give him a crises of faith. The ones that just don't work (either I don't buy them together, Brandon hasn't done the legwork, or one side is not set up enough) Wax and Steris: My main issue with this is the main issue I will be discussing later with another controversial opinion I have about a couple, is Brandon doing all the legwork to show us that Marasi is a better fit, Marasi works better with the eventual lessie reveal, Marasi has better chemistry with Wax, and then Brandon completely runs away from it in the later books. Wax had a "great love" and it was Lessie, Steris would work fine if there was no Marasi and Marasi and Steris would work with no Lessie. Brandon also runs away from the dynamic he set up a bit (he does this much worse in Oathbringer) but he spends a lot of time setting up a love triangle in book one, only to run away from it, and try to pretend he never did in later books. And another arranged marriage that works out... And we've reached my largest issue with Brandon's romance plots, the one that combines all my issues together... Adolin and Shallan: First of all, I will acknowledge that Brandon could make this work later through soom reveal in future books or by really selling me on them together in the future, but... My issues are: I feel like Brandon changed course between Words of Radiance and Oathbringer, and tried to hand-wave away the set-up he did there. The main event of all of Words of Radiance before the climax was Shallan and Kaladin in the Shattered Plains. I can buy that Shallan didn't really like Kaladin, that she just thinks he's handsome and that his intensity and absurdness of righteousness is more frightening to her than Adolin's simple loyalty and good-naturedness, but I don't buy that, no, it was really Veil who liked him, there is no mention of Veil in the cravaces, in fact it was the only time in WoR that Shallan was honest and open with another person. Kaladin is the only person she has ever told about her life and her father, up to this point no one else other than her brothers know anything about her life before she arrived in Kharbranth, I don't buy Kaladin's decision that he doesn't really like her, that he just thinks of her like Tien. Shallan is that only person that Kaladin has told about his past, she is the only one he tells the full story of Amaram to. It seems like Brandon changed his mind (which is fine) but decided to just undo everything he set up in WoR in OB by just declaring that Shallan is like Tien to Kaladin, and it was really Veil who liked Kaladin. I also don't feel like Shallan had reached the point in her arc to get married and resolve her romantic issues permanently. It is treated as a casual decision that she can make along the way to figuring out everything else about herself. Brandon handles this so well in Mistborn wit Vin and completely botches the same situation with Shallan. Shallan ends OB in a much worse state than Vin was ever in, but decides that getting married will help solve all her identity problems. If someone did that in the real world we would consider it a panic move that was doomed to fail. I think Shallan and Adolin's relationship is shallow, they think each other are pretty and Adolin knows nothing about Shallan's past, her family, or her dark secrets. Another arranged marriage. I know that all of these are culturally appropriate for the characters, but it just grates against everything I expect in a novel. Undermining expectations is good, unless you develop a pattern of undermining them in the same way four times in a row. My issue isn't that Shallan picked Adolin and Kaladin has moved on. I just don't think Brandon did the legwork to get us to the point we were at at the end of OB and I think he casually dismissed some things he set up in WoR. Maybe he knows this and Shallan and Adolin's marriage will not be the end of this issue, but it seemed like Brandon was tying everything up in a neat little bow.
  48. 9 points
    She was also a heretic, and it does not appear that she was particularly well liked. I'm not really sure how much it actually would mean to Adolin, in particular; they're too far apart in age to have conceivably been raised together, and Jasnah seems to have spent most of her time away from court. Most likely he didn't see her death as being much more personally relevant than the death of some distant cousin from a Cadet branch of the family. I need to see this happen. I'm not sure what that was; I'm sorry.
  49. 9 points
    They eat you. I wish for my own banana farm in Belize.
  50. 8 points
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