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Note: Going to start this from scratch. See the bottom for original post hidden in spoiler tag. Since the release of Oathbringer there's been a lot of talk about the nature of Shards, and with good reason. First we have Odium's suggestions that he represents the larger concept of "Passion". Then at the end of the book we see Dalinar temporarily Ascend by pulling together pieces of Honor and making the mysterious statement "I am Unity". Meanwhile, Harmony's continued emphasis that his powers are "in conflict", paired with other hints, has led many to think that he could (and indeed may one day) go by the name of Discord. Throughout all of these discussions has been interwoven new concepts of what these Shards mean, the usage of the word "intent" in these contexts, and the degree to which all of these can change over time. The result is a jumble of confusion. So I've been playing around with a few of these concepts, trying to piece them together in a useful way. I'm not trying to redefine any existing terms, and I want to avoid the baggage that those words may carry. But I'm not really trying to create new terminology either. So I will be using fresh words, but I'll try to keep them as descriptive and plain as possible. Concepts I want to identify three distinct concepts: The Shard's nature: The fundamental aspect(s) of Adonalsium's own personality/nature that composes the Shard. Though we might try our best, this cannot be captured by a single word. Most of us tend to think that a Shard's nature is unchanging/unchangeable, though some may disagree with this point. You could in a way combine one Shard (or pieces of it) with another Shard (or pieces of one). You could perhaps rip pieces off of a Shard in a permanent way. These of course would probably give you something different, but that would be different than directly changing the very nature of the Shard. Some may argue otherwise. Many people will connect this with the concept of "intent", but I'm avoiding the use of that term because it may pull in some history that I don't necessarily want to assume. The vessel's expression of the Shard: How the Shard's nature is expressed by a particular vessel. Many believe it is possible for a single Shard to be expressed in different ways, depending on the vessel who holds it (or perhaps other factors.) What determines this is a matter for debate. Is it a function of the vessel's subconscious perception of the Shard's nature? Can the vessel freely choose, within some bounds? The vessel's thoughts and actions: What the vessel thinks and does. We could maybe separate this in two... but what we do with it is the same for each, so I'm going to keep things simple. This is about pinpointing how a particular thought or action fits into the concepts of the Shard's nature and its expression. Does a particular action fit in line with the Shard's nature? Does some thought or desire reach outside of the expression? Some would argue that actions and thoughts outside of the bounds of the nature and/or expression are impossible. Or perhaps that they are possible, but only in limited and/or temporary ways. The length of time a vessel has held the Shard may also come into play here. Visualization With those concepts in place, let's talk about how they fit together. Warning: you may feel that some cases are impossible. That's fine. I'm not theorizing all of these are possible. Just trying to put together a framework that allows for different logical viewpoints to be expressed. First let's focus on the nature and the expression. Note that these images are highly abstract. Hopefully that's intuitive, given that we're representing incredibly complex ideas with boxes in 2D space. Don't get hung up on the exact sizes, locations, and things like that. We have 4 different general (theoretical) cases: The full nature of the Shard is being expressed. Some people may think this is the only logical case, especially after the vessel has had time to be warped by the Shard. Example: If you think that Ruin under the stewardship of Ati portrayed all aspects of the Shard's nature, you would say that it looked like case 1. Some subset of the Shard's nature is being expressed. There's an implication here that some other vessel might display some other subset of the Shard's nature. You may think that this happens because the expression cannot extend outside the boundary of the Shard's nature. Example: If you think that Odium is more accurately a Shard which represents all emotion (perhaps Rayse is simply giving it a more hateful bent), then you would argue it is a case 2 situation. The full nature of the Shard is being expressed, in addition to some aspects outside of the nature. Here there is perhaps a notion that the Shard's nature is more of a "core concept" that the vessel can build on, rather than a boundary that the vessel's expression is contained by. Example: If you think that Honor portrayed some ideals which are outside the bounds of your perception of what the Shard really means, you would say he demonstrates case 3. Some subset of the shard's nature is being expressed, in addition to some aspects outside of the nature. This is basically just a mashup of cases 2 and 3, but I thought it was distinct enough to include. I reference specific cases in these examples for simplicity, but the reality is far from clean (unless you think case 1 is the only valid possibility). And nothing is likely to be black and white. I've shown a very idealized "case 2" above. A more accurate (though still highly simplified abstraction) depiction would be the image below. I DON'T intend for people to take this and then run through a list of Shards and categorize them into these three cases. The goal is simply to recognize different ways that the Shard's nature can (arguably) be expressed. Now let's talk about how the third concept, the thoughts and actions of the vessel, fit into these ideas. I've taken those general cases and marked a few distinct locations on each of them. I'm supposing that every thought the vessel has or action that the vessel takes will fall into one of these regions. There are 4 possibilities, all demonstrated in case 4: (a) The thought/action is within both the Shard's nature and expression. (b) The thought/action is outside both the Shard's nature and expression. (c) The thought/action is within the Shard's nature but outside the expression. (d) The thought/action is outside the Shard's nature but within the expression. This is where we talk about things like Vin killing Ati while holding the Shard of Preservation. Was she out at some point (b)? Or perhaps point (d)? Is such an action totally within the Shard's nature--just not within the the expression of it that Leras gave us? These are the kinds of questions we can ask. There are a lot of interesting things wrapped up in here. We can talk about the level of free will which vessels have for example. Is it difficult for a vessel to take some action outside of its Shard's nature? Is it even possible? How about the expression? If Rayse holds something more accurately called "the Shard of emotion" and I assume his expression of it is "Odium"... Is it difficult for him to do something loving? That is, something outside the expression but inside the nature? How much of this is self imposed, relating to the vessel's own personality and how much is it a matter of the Shard changing him? We can also talk about the role of time. Are brief actions outside some boundary less difficult than prolonged actions? How long before the vessel is warped toward's the Shard's nature? Was Ati instantly constrained into being more Ruinous, or how long did it take before he was unable to fight that nature completely? Examples Let's talk about some examples of how this helps us think through different situations. Again, I'm not trying to directly theorize with this. I'm speaking towards how we would use this to help ourselves think through and explain a theory. Example 1: Odium and Passion As one possibility we have case 1, where the Shard's nature is accurately described as "Odium". We observe an intent which fits this and Rayse is fully molded by it. His claims to be something else (Passion) are mistakes or lies by him. Another possibility is that we have case 1 where the Shard's nature is indeed Passion. For it to be case 1, it would mean that we simply haven't seen the Shard at work enough (in my opinion) to fully see how the Shard and the vessel fit this definition. It does... we just maybe haven't observed it. We've seen a lot of actions which are perhaps in one corner of the box (the Odium corner), but he's totally capable (and probably does) take actions that fit other "passions". A similar situation would be described by cases 3 or 4, where Passion (or something else) is the true nature, but for whatever reason the Shard is acting only with the intent of Odium in the cosmere. This could be a function of Rayse's control over his power, or there could be other factors at play. Example 2: Honor and Unity Let's theorize that Dalinar will somehow assemble a Shard by the name of Unity. I see two fundamentally different ways for this to happen... Let me suppose that Tanavast-Honor looked something like case 2 with actions tending to fall within his own expression. Visually, let's say the blue expression area fits in the left 2/3 of the nature box. Later we have Dalinar come along and pick up the Splintered pieces of the Shard once called Honor. He puts them back together, but by his own will, personality, values, or whatever his expression fits more to the right 3/4 of Shard's nature box. So for the most part we have heavy overlap between Tanavast's Honor and Dalinar's Unity. But the slight difference in which aspects of the Shard's nature are being expressed lead us to ascribe two different names. Dalinar is expressing something with more emphasis on unity aspects of the Shard than Tanavast did, and perhaps putting less value on the notion of "doing things because he said he would." Another similar idea would be that either Tanavast's Honor was a case 1 situation while Dalinar's Unity is a case 2 situation. (or vice versa) So Tanavast expressed the Shard more fully, but Dalinar leaves part of that out and thus looks a little different. (or vice versa) The second, fundamentally different, way that Honor could become Unity is if we actually play around with the Shard's very nature. Something more difficult and rare. This is where we have the theories that Unity will be created by merging some combination of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium. You could also take a more complicated approach here and suppose that Honor will be combined with pieces of other Shards. Or go the other direction and suppose that Dalinar will leave out pieces that once made up Honor when he puts it back together, leaving something that looks more like Unity in nature. Or maybe it's some of both things here. And a different approach would involve the idea of the nature itself somehow changing and shifting. Either by Dalinar's will or by some other cause, the Shard that we called Honor has been "pushed" or "pulled" into something more like Unity. Example 3: Harmony and Discord I would think that this looks mostly like the first concept with Honor and Unity. The combined Shard (made up of what was once Ruin and Preservation) has some overarching nature. Harmony is in a case 2 situation shifted towards one aspect of this nature, but it's possible to fill up some other portion of that nature instead. The really interesting question here is wrapped up in how that change (if possible) could happen. It would seem to me that the vessel is actively working to maintain the expression of Harmony (if that's the best name for it). Is it possible for him to maintain this indefinitely or will he inevitably be pulled into an expression which better fits the Shard's full nature? What would that be? In his efforts to be Harmony, has he been bottling up Discord (or whatever you want to call the currently unexpressed portion of his nature) which must find its way out? I also see one of the biggest problems with this whole framework here: what do you do when combining two Shards or expressions which are contradictory? How does that mesh? (obviously not easily, but it's hard to really demonstrate that visually with this) So... Thoughts? Again, I'm not outright theorizing anything directly here of course, but I think maybe this is a useful way of considering the interactions between vessels and the powers they hold. Original post, for the record:

I wanted more Vasher Zahel. I especially wanted to see his reaction to Szeth walking into Urithiru with Nightblood. I want that interaction really badly.

Unbound Worlds just launched their annual Cage Match, a who-would-win voting game spanning sci-do and fantasy franchises. 32 characters go in, go head-to-head with one another for 5 rounds of voting, and one character will emerge as the cage match champion. This year's theme is nonhuman characters. Brandon's works and collaborations are represented by the Stormfather and the Ogier Loial. Check out who they have to compete against! http://www.unboundworlds.com/cage-match-2018/

Adolin as a Willshaper based on that one WoR epigraph was a theory I came up with on my own and held to pretty strongly. But I think Oathbringer left me feeling that spren have a LOT of leeway for who they can bond. I mean, it's not like there are RULES that they have to bond someone they mesh really well with, right? It seems to me that certain people attract certain nahel spren, but there's nothing to say they can't make exceptions. Venli is the biggest example of this. I have to totally disagree with you @Calderis. We know SO little about the Willshapers of course, but that one epigraph we have describes Eshonai (in my opinion) FAR better than it describes Venli. I tend to think Venli is not an ideal candidate for Timbre... But they're bonding anyways, for one reason or another. I still don't see Adolin as an "ideal" Edgedancer (based on my assumptions of what that order looked like), but it works well enough for me to say it makes sense. And even if it didn't work at all for me, I suppose Maya could bond with him anyways if she wanted. I tend to think Adolin will be an Edgedancer (whether he fits or not) because of the WoB Calderis mentioned a while back. I think Maya is being revived, and the only basis we KNOW of for that happening is a nahel bond. So it just feels like it all works well enough. That said, WoB isn't gospel. I absolutely think there's potential for Maya to be restored in some other way we don't know about which doesn't require a (normal) nahel bond.

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine I got my Eshonai question answered! I'm looking forward to watching Jebus eat a shoe.

Agree with everything stated above. Some of these things can be addressed in future books but others like Amaram are pretty much dead (in multiple ways). Aesudan is another character I thought had an underwhelming role to play until meeting her demise. Adolin killing Sadeas certainly can be brought back up but I feel like all the tension has been lost. The biggest thing that I wish was shown more is a conversation between Dalinar, Szeth and Kaladin after the battle. With what was on screen it feels unbelievable to me that Szeth would be just welcomed into the fold and then appointed Dalinar's bodyguard. Some dialog could have helped a lot here.

Steven Spielberg:

A Nahel bond is created after the spren is attracted to a Knight Radiant candidate. Why do you purposefully skip this step? This is bias right here. Dead Shardblades scream when they are touched and this denotes that they are used against their own will. I think Brandon emphasizes this in order to cause sentiments of disgust or at least worry on the readership. So 1) there needs to be an attraction first and 2) Maya has been used by Adolin against her will. Why does this make people feel giddy?! This is the wrong reaction here. I'm going to try and use your method of persuasion here, using a WoB *shivers* (and believe me I feel filthy by doing this because this is not my style) The above Wob denotes that there could be a sort of 'surgical operation' between physical and cognitive realm that could fix a deadeye spren. We know that Surges aren't exactly the same between the two orders that have them, there is usually a different kind of aspect to the power itself. Yes, Willshapers have Transportation, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will Transport themselves since they are not 'else callers'. They are fixers and/or engineers. If they can manipulate mater on a molecular level (Cohesion) and the Transportation ability gives them "the affinity to the far realm of spren." , a joint use of the two powers could mean an upgraded Cohesion in the Physical and Congnitive realm. Yes, this is purely speculative and you will disagree. But I disagree that Adolin is Edgedancer material too. So here we are. I never said 'Adolin is unreliable because of his failed relationships'. We are having a healthy debate here, there is no need to attribute arguments to me that I've never said, just to defame the validity of my point of view. This is disrespectful actually (and even if it's done constantly on these forums I still do not accept it). Of course he has a relationship by the end of OB, so yes, he has grown since WoK, even despite the fact that the healthiness of that relationship is still arguable. But I'm curious how would you describe "the act of refusing to be king" as? It's certainly does not denote a reliable person. He obviously knew he was in line in the throne beforehand, because from his own POV in book, it's the first thing he thinks about when he realizes that Elhokar is dead. I think it's a legit argument to call it capricious actually. And I'm sure Dalinar finds frustrating that his favourite son is abdicating the throne. And if people were so sure that he would become an Edgedancer why isn't there a WoB question "What would the Edgedancers think about Adolin killing Sadeas?" huh? Because I'm pretty sure, if we had that answer we wouldn't have this discussion right now. Certainly, sticking a knife in an unarmed's eye isn't exactly Loving or Healing, so I'm sitting here wondering why are the Divine Attributes of Edgedancers completely ignored in here.

Bort the Brute rolled out of his bedroll, groaning. He didn't feel well, at all. He tried to get up, but found he was too dizzy to stand properly, even leaning on his favorite spiky club. He sat back down on his bedroll, shivering. There had been talk about disease spreading in the camp, but nothing like this. He hollered for a soldier to come. "Stay back," Bort cautioned. "What is it, sir?" one of them asked. "I've caught something. I feel bloody horrible. Tell the othe--" Bort was interrupted as he had to lean over to throw up. The soldier ran to go call for help. "I don't like this. What if Captain Bort was poisoned?" Jeo speculated. "Hm, that actually makes a lot of sense," Ivy said, nodding. "Well... If our captain was poisoned, who'd want to kill him? Maybe somebody who Bort discredited?" "So... Salthis," Zaffer concluded. The four stared at Salthis. The other soldiers seemed to be nodding their heads, and the marshal wasn't in sight to stop them. "Did you poison Bort?" they asked him. Salthis tried to respond, but was pushed to the ground, where they started kicking him. He didn't get back up. Later that night, the camp held a burial service. They dug a mass-grave close to but not over the perimeter imposed by the lifeless, depositing all of those who had died in the past few days. The soldiers stood in a loose ring, their heads bowed, while the marshal said a few words, ending on "...and may Austre give them rest." They kept their heads bowed, as one by one, the members of the camp approached the grave to say their respects, each uttering a few words of respect over the dead. When they looked up, it was obvious that something was very wrong. At some point while paying their respects, heads bowed, eyes closed, all the color had drained from the bodies of the fallen. A quiet moment of dread permeated the camp as comprehension dawned on them. Bort began to pick himself up, quickly followed by others. The ring around the grave scattered, fleeing for the town hall. They barricaded themselves in, breathing heavily, praying that the lifeless would not be able to enter. "It was you," Zaffer said in a quiet voice, looking at Shu. "I saw you do it. You created those creatures from our dead, just now." The others in the hall glanced between the two of them, stunned. Vote Tally Coop (4)- Joe, Brightness, Devotary, Drought Drought (2)- Shqueeves, Coop Arinian (1)- Ecthelion Brightness (1)- Monster Joe (1)- Ripple Ecthelion (1)- Arinian Coop has been lynched! Identity of the deceased: Bort has died of plague! Identity of the deceased: Player List 1. A Joe in the Bush as Jeo the Yellow 2. Elenion as Gormund Oscarson Idrian 3. Randuir as commander Jaaver Idrian Captain 4. Livinglegend as Lucky Idrian Sentry 5. Shqueeves as Shu 6. Bort as Bort the Brute Idrian Captain 7. BrightnessRadiant as Ivy 8. Straw as Straw Idrian 9. TheMightyLopen as Vaati Idrian 10. MacThorstenson as Mac Idrian 11. Devotary of Spontaneity as Fahmexa 12. Ecthelion as Eärendil 13. Coop772 as Salthis Idrian 14. MonsterMetroid as Roid 15. Droughtbringer as Zaffer 16. RippleGylf as Sarcoline 17. Arinian as Elien Rollover

To start off I would be happy if Brandon wrote a 1000 page collection of short stories set on Roshar including the Jasnah novella, as well as a 200 page epilogue to Oathbringer that includes interactions between the Lopen and Nightblood. Perhaps we could see Elhokar as a young boy filled with hopes and dreams playing with his father.

Important note: This list would be far less complete if not for the efforts of everyone who helped me compile it. Specifically thankyou to: Awesomeness Summoned, Delightful, Argent, PorridgeBrick, Kurkistan, Quiver, Green Hoodie Mistborn, Senor Feesh, Observer, ccstat, Swimmingly, Alvron, Metacognition, The Only Joe, GreyPilgrim, Aether, jasonpenguin, Mailliw73, Moodle, Tempus, Baine, Kobold King, LeftInch, Sir Jerric, Tensoon, Ashiok, Theorymaker, Seonid, Shaggai, TheYoungBard, Curiosity, Snoopy, Voidus, Frosted Flakes, Kasimir, Shallan. (Let me know if I missed you.) Hokay, for those who want to know the ranks, I looked through everyone who had at least 10 posts. Here are my findings. 10000+ God Beyond 9000 9999 Adonalsium 8500 8999 Hero of Ages 8192 8499 The Broken One 7800 8191 Shard 7500 7799 Splintered Shard 7200 7499 Splinter 6800 7199 Dragon 6400 6799 Stormfather 6000 6399 Herald 5700 5999 Sliver 5350 5699 Nightwatcher 5000 5349 Worldhopper 4750 4999 God of Color 4500 4749 Lord Ruler 4250 4499 Unmade 4096 4249 Dawnshard 3761 4095 Prime 3500 3760 Lerasium Mistborn 3250 3499 Bondsmith 3000 3249 Voidbringer 2750 2999 Knight Radiant 2500 2749 Most Ancient 2250 2499 Steel Inquisitor 2048 2249 Mistborn 1900 2047 Tarachin Superstar 1800 1899 Dawnsinger 1700 1799 Rambleman 1600 1699 Savant 1550 1599 Gerontarch 1500 1549 Midnight Essence 1450 1499 Listener 1400 1449 Enefel 1370 1399 Kalad's Phantom 1338 1369 Compounder 1337 So l337 Hoid Can't Compete 1300 1336 Surgebinder 1260 1299 Radiant Squire 1220 1259 Kandra 1180 1219 Twinborn 1145 1179 Returned 1111 1144 Scadrian Waffle Cook 1080 1110 Stone Shaman 1050 1079 Cryptic 1024 1049 Honorspren 1000 1023 Sentient Awakened Object 980 999 Truthless 950 979 Highprince 920 949 Worldbringer 890 919 Full Feruchemist 860 889 Full Shardbearer 830 859 Shardbearer 800 829 Seer 777 799 Spinner 760 776 Wyrn the King 730 759 Elantrian 700 729 Originator 667 699 Svrakiss 666 Torturer of Heralds 650 665 Shade 625 649 Soulcaster 600 624 Forger 575 599 Dakhor Monk 550 574 Lord Prelan 512 549 King's Wit 496 511 Son of Honor 475 495 Vanisher 450 474 King's Tester 425 449 Ghostblood 400 424 Envisager 375 399 Artifabrian 350 374 Ferring 325 349 Stormwarden 300 324 Bloodsealer 278 299 Silent Gatherer 256 277 Misting 225 255 Arbiter 200 224 Gyorn 180 199 High Prelan 160 179 Oldblood 145 159 Cobalt Guard 128 144 Hazekiller 110 127 Forescout 100 109 Houselord 90 99 Babsk 80 89 Prelan 75 79 Arteth 70 74 Idrian Monk 64 69 Obligator 56 63 Lighteyes 50 55 Grand 45 49 Noble 40 44 Crew Leader 32 39 Ardent 25 31 Pahn Kahl 20 24 Awakened Object 16 19 Noble-Blooded 10 15 Bridgeman 7 9 Spearman 5 6 Darkeyes 2 4 Skaa 0 1 Spren --- -1 -2 Negaspren -3 -5 Lifeless -6 -10 Hoed -15 -19 ? Beheaded Inquisitor -20 -24 ? Rotting Chull Carcass -24 -25 Lamespren -26 -100 Zucchini -101 and below Chasmfiend Corpse Note: negative reputation titles are no longer obtainable due to downvotes having been removed. I'll update this as we learn more We now know them all! I like the new levels. Good work Chaos Please don't ask me how long that took. Current lowest Unknown rep: nonexistent. We're so close to getting them all =D Edit: Wooohooo first popular post Later edit: For the record, at the time I added that comment 10 rep was a little more exciting Another edit: The lower rep ranks have changed at some point, I don't know where all of the new boundaries are yet.

While reading the Stormlight Archive books, I realized that spren are 'real life' emoticons. So naturally I made some emoticons involving spren. To use an emote, copy the link next to it in the parentheses and paste it into your post. You can also right-click the link and choose "Copy Link Location", then paste it in your message. 17thshard.com forums allow you to load pictures into your posts by pasting the URL of the image into the post's content. It may be helpful to save a .txt file in notepad with all of the links you prefer to use in order to copy and paste elsewhere. Also, more cosmere-themed emoticons are under construction. Enjoy: Alespren (http://i.imgur.com/ktwO0cb.gif) and static version (https://i.imgur.com/bbMSt3L.png) Angerspren (http://i.imgur.com/D6J6xRU.gif) and static version (https://i.imgur.com/cCqVYgw.png) Anticipationspren (http://i.imgur.com/BM44BrV.gif) and static version (https://i.imgur.com/1tjwhIn.png) Awespren (http://i.imgur.com/3YfOz4J.gif) and static version (https://i.imgur.com/VkpiJTb.png) Awespren (canon) (https://i.imgur.com/7C8wANr.gif) and static version (https://i.imgur.com/9xD7XH0.png) Bindspren (https://i.imgur.com/2tmDaoQ.gif) and static version (https://i.imgur.com/32yBzwl.png) Coldspren (https://i.imgur.com/uOFJI3L.gif) and static version (https://i.imgur.com/e137yIJ.png) Creationspren (http://i.imgur.com/THDwKRq.gif) and static versions (https://i.imgur.com/8lMJI4Z.png), (https://i.imgur.com/1bSjE7G.png), and (https://i.imgur.com/AH8WdWC.png) Fearspren (http://i.imgur.com/fwkGdLK.gif) and static version (https://i.imgur.com/RTfcvUl.png) Gloryspren (http://i.imgur.com/IiBDG5u.gif) and static version (https://i.imgur.com/60gRN2F.png) (alternate version) (http://i.imgur.com/0rFKCWU.gif) and static version (https://i.imgur.com/844IBnV.png) I edited the laughterspren to make it more visible, but left the old one up so links aren't broken: Laughterspren (https://i.imgur.com/HLCjBvQ.gif) and static version (https://i.imgur.com/YcigcGe.png) (alternate) (https://i.imgur.com/UVYzqQB.gif) and static version (https://i.imgur.com/IFaGQje.png) (old) (http://i.imgur.com/dk9SAg9.gif) (dark version) (http://i.imgur.com/twskx1S.gif) Shardblade (http://i.imgur.com/6tU3gRQ.gif) and static versions (https://i.imgur.com/PVjEeQv.png) and (https://i.imgur.com/6UkYJJG.png)

Sixth of the Dusk Edgedancer Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell Stormlight Archive [OB spoilers] Mistborn Original Trilogy Mistborn Wax and Wayne [BoM and SH spoilers] That’s all I’m doing for now. This is really fun!

When you're thinking about Toy Story, and then you start thinking.. Maybe the toys are invested.. Maybe that's how investiture expresses itself on this planet.. So is this on Earth.. No, must be some other Shardworld.. So, can the investiture from the toys be used by humans?.. or maybe the investiture is in humans.. yeah, that works better.. But when kids personify their toys, and give them so much love and attention, they start drawing in investiture and gaining sentience... I overthink things when I'm bored. Although, This really makes sense when you look at something called the Pixar theory... Not sure If anyone else here knows what I'm talking about

Good analysis. I have long believed its case 2 but that the vessel cannot permanently shape or alter that intent or 'nature' but that with strong will they can filter it for a long time. I believe bavadin does that. I like the distinction between intent and nature, it may not be quite right but for discussion purposes ots a useful way to say intent can be filtered withoutbeing changed. Some WoBs

I'm really happy this thread got made, since I fell that every since Oathbringer dropped there have been a lot of talks about this topic, but never really tackled head on like @Jofwu has done. First, imho, everyone who thinks that Odium is 100% honest when he is explaining his Intent to Dalinar as Passion is being a little bit naive. Odium had every reason to twist, mangle and butcher the truth, if not lie entirley to get Dalinar down with Yelig-nar. Hoid called him "loathsome and crafty", even before he took up the shard. It is quite possible that after holding the shard of Odium, Rayse got desensitized to his anger and shifted how he interprets the shard over to Passion, but the other way around? No way. Dalinar's "I am Unity" I think is getting a little out of hand. If Unity is the Intent of a shard of some kind, what about when Kelsier said "I am Hope"? Same capitalization and everything. With that out of the way, here's my two cents (or dollars) on @Jofwu's paradigm: The Fundamental Nature and the Intent are the same thing. The word used to describe the intent (Honor, Odium, Ruin, e.t.c.) is just the single word that Brandon thought described the Intent best. I think that splitting these up is a little overeager. This is different from the Vessel's Expression, which is still a legitimate thing per WoB, but I personal don't think has as much wiggle room as some others do. Call this Case 5. The black and blue boxes are the same, with a red box within that's slightly smaller. For Harmony, the evidence from the WoB's and epigraphs about Discord are too great to ignore. For posterity, here are they: So Discord, as an alternate version Harmony most definitely exists. I don't think it's because of Sazed choosing how to interpret Ruin + Preservation like @Jofwusays though. How the Intent gets interpreted seems to be a somewhat of a choice, but in the WoB Brandon says it's a matter of Sazed being able to control himself. Here's my take: Ruin and Preservation haven't really "melded" like they did when they were both in Adonalsium. Sazed's thoughts, abilities and actions are being filtered through both Intents simultaneously. This is why he is under so much strain, and if it ever gets to him then he'll go Discord.

Politics - like the scene where Navani describes every single chair? Shadesmar - I agree. It is a really cool place that I hoped to see eventually. But the whole time they were there, I just wanted to get "back to the action". I attribute Shallan's new control over her lightweaving to the Oath she spoke at the end of WoR (admitting she killed her mother). I believe something very similar happened to Kaladin's powers at the start of WoR. New characters and nations - and cities and unmade and fused and odium. And there is just a ton of stuff going on. It is hard to keep track of on a first reading. We've lost the shattered plains as the center of everything we care about. And it will never be that simple again. BUT - We have a lot of time between SA books to think about what the next one will be like. I remember being fairly discontented the first time I finished WoR. (And there were quite a few posts then expressing the same feelings you have here.) Now WoR is one of my all time favorites. There is a ton of stuff I loved about OB. With more time, I hope to appreciate it for the story it is, instead of what I speculated it would be.

Another gem from Reaper's Gale: A civilization shackled to the strictures of excessive control on its populace, from choice of religion through to the production of goods, will sap the will and the ingenuity of its people – for whom such qualities are no longer given sufficient incentive or reward. At face value, this is accurate enough. Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore, a kind of intransigence as fierce and nonsensical as its maternalistic counterpart. And so, in the clash of these two extreme systems, one is witness to brute stupidity and blood-splashed insensitivity; two belligerent faces glowering at each other across the unfathomed distance, and yet, in deed and in fanatic regard, they are but mirror reflections.This would be amusing if it weren’t so pathetically idiotic…”

What many people have speculated is that these spren are what form a Radiants Shardplate. Each order appears to have a connect "Lesser" spren, like Windrunners and Windspren, Edgedancers and Lifespren, Lightweavers and Creation Spren. When Kaladin was in Shadesmar we see hundreds of Windspren form almost a frame around him, (The airbending thing was probably just adhesion), we see something similar with Jasnah at Thaylenah, and it's an all around good theory.

"You’ll see. Everyone will because you’re all my friends and friends are important. The most important thing in the world. And I’ll show you." "This ain't your fight, storming dragon."

Because attraction is kind of moot for a a dead spren. They're there whether they wish to be or not. There's no mind to attract. Dead Shardblades scream when they are touched by a Radiant, because they are brought further to life and this forces them into a cycle of agony. For a non-radiant, they don't reach a level of being that they're capable of speech. When Kaladin touched Relis' blade in the arena, Relis heard it. If the blades screamed all the time, their wielder would hear them. I'd appreciate it if you'd cut the direct insults, subtle as they are. Yes I use WoBs, because they are the words of the man writing this story. If that makes you feel dirty, then don't use them. If they don't matter to you, then fine, don't be convinced. I don't appreciate the implications that this form of argumentation is somehow inferior when the vast majority of the knowledge we have on the Cosmere is not present in the books. If you want to operate based solely off of what is in the books that's fine, that's your prerogative. I don't, as Brandon has chosen to share more information that he finds relevant. The amount of extra information that he's given us on various topics is already more than would happen if he writes consistently for the rest of his life. I refuse to just write that off. And on that WoB you quoted, I don't understand what about that has anything to do with the healing of the spren. The possible surgery it speaks of is in a clean and neat severing of the Nahel bond of a living Spren as compared to the violent and deadly ending that happens when oaths are broken. For the surges, we've been told by both Brandon and Peter that the surges do have slight variations between orders, but that they are similar enough that they would look identical to an outside observer. Hence Skybreakers/Windrunners having seemingly identical flight, and why I fully believe that Renarin doesn't have normal Illumination at all, just the voidbinding version of that surge. I never attributed that to what you said. I did not put words in your mouth. I said that outside of that circumstance I don't see how he is unreliable. That is not the same thing. This is the reason that in world scholars and Vorinism have attributed "Builder" to Kalak and the Willshapers. I don't remember the exact wording, but there is a phrasing in Venli's final PoV that justifies her bonding with Timbre by this explanation. Eshonai may have been an explorer, but Venli was as well, just in the domain of knowledge. I personally think because of this that she fits Willshapers better than Eshonai did.

@Calderis sorry, but again, I was not saying the perpendicularity (or stormlight or anything else for that matter) healed Maya. I’m saying I’m not convinced she needs to have been healed for her to speak faintly in Adolin’s mind under the circumstances we saw. We still have a difference, but I’m just clarifying what that difference is because you seem to be arguing against a point I didn’t make. You are arguing on that question, I was not. We are arguing on two different questions.

As you know, I tend to favor the explanation wanting Lopen to fall within those "other means" Brandon mentioned. I'll admit part of my reasons to prefer this explanation to yours is I feel it makes his character becoming a Radiant more interesting. If Lopen is meant to show us another side of Radianhood, then I am fine with him being one, if not, then he looks too much like fan service and I dislike it. Given the narrative we have read, I find it could really go both ways. The case for Adolin becoming an Edgedancer far predates the fact his Blade is an Edgedancer Blade. The argument never relied on his Blade, always on his character. The fact his Blade turned out to be an Edgedancer Blade was just the icing on the cake, but honestly, the theory never needed it to exist. Hence, no one is trying to make Adolin fit those ideals, the narrative is already telling us he is. I find the argument is actually the opposite, some are trying to make him not fit because they like the alternate denouement better. I disagree. Adolin hates novelty and adventure. He doesn't seek the unknown nor does he enjoy exploring new countries. On the contrary, he is unsettled by the changes he sees within the world, he isn't excited about it. See how Eshonai was written out within the prologue, now that's a Willshaper: Adolin never once exhibit the same curiosity nor the same desire to know strangers. He is more of the opposite. Adolin is not capricious nor unreliable: he is the exact opposite. He is extraordinarily reliable: you can depend on him with your life and he will never falter. See how Eshonai is said to be completely unreliable, unable to complete task and not being trusted with much. The is basically the anti-Adolin whom can be relied to at all times. The fact he murdered Sadeas doesn't make him either frustrating nor unreliable: it was an act of pure loyalty towards his family. Him behavior into Kholinar do sound frustrating, but I would argue it is more a side effect of him not getting any viewpoints, The fancy suit allegedly is a means by which Adolin tried to gain some control because he is unsettled by the "novelty" around him. Him teaching Shallan how to fight was him trying to make an unknown fearful situation into one he can understand and rely to. Adolin has no affinities with the far realm of spren: he hated it and he couldn't sense what the spheres represented. Aye. I am most definitely arguing as to whether of not Adolin could become an Edgedancer, nor should nor will. I agree his story has not been written out just yet and he may never become an Edgedancer. However, if this happens, I do not think it will be because he is unfitting, but because reviving a dead-Blade is super hard and he may not pull it off. I also do not see what would prompt Adolin to start saying oaths: he doesn't believe he is worthy of being a Radiant, what would need to change for him to embark unto an unknown journey towards becoming a Radiant with a dead-Blade to boot it all? If his spren came to him through normal means, then he'd have her counsel, her voice to guide him but without it, can Adolin make the journey alone? Also, the fact he has his broken half-Nahel Bond with Maya likely also means no other sprens will come near him. Hence, Adolin becoming an Edgedancer is not a done deal, not yet. Narrative usually have more than one purpose. As I said in my earlier post, Adolin saving the prostitute does having for main purpose to fuel Kaladin's character development, but it also fleshes out Adolin by making him the man to step down for someone else. As for what Brandon intends to do, it is unclear to me. There are strong chances he won't do anything with Adolin more than he has already done, so I agree with you here, but then again, it more or less ruins the purpose of having him interact with Maya. Those scenes purely were about Adolin and I honestly do not see what it would add to the story to have the event be a mere by-product of the perpendicularity. Why have Maya save Adolin, speak her name and her start to form a bond with Adolin is it is only to take great leaps to explain it was all meaningless? It just makes little sense for Brandon to have written out those scenes for this sole purpose which isn't the intuitively obvious one.

Thank you for clarifying. Yes, there was a misunderstanding and the point I was trying to make is exactly what you said. Even though we have limited information about what is required to be an Edgedancer, I think we have enough that it is fine to speculate whether Adolin would fit them or not. But to say that it's only reasonable to speculate in one direction seems silly and and one-sided to me. To clarify a few other points where perhaps my meaning was misunderstood: @Calderis I understand you are saying you believe a Nahel bond is required for Adolin to have heard Maya speak faintly in his mind. I'm not convinced this is the case, though I understand the evidence you are using to support your idea. That is where we differ on the Taln discussion so I think we just have to agree to disagree on that. @Isilel I don't think what you and I were saying about using Lift as an example is actually that different. I addressed the part about why we didn't see any evidence of the spren of other dead Shardblades speaking to the ones they are bonded to in an earlier post, but I will expand. Number one there are some unique circumstances with Adolin and his blade which we haven't seen from other Shardbearers (he speaks to his and he just came through Shadesmar where he interacted with his deadeye and it becomes clear that she feels differently about Adolin than most deadeyes apparently feel). Finally, Adolin's is the only viewpoint we were given from someone who holds a dead Shardblade during the perpendicularity. So perhaps other deadeyes had the ability to speak faintly in the minds of the one bonded to them during the perpendicularity but didn't choose to do so because they hate their owners, or perhaps we just didn't get to see it happen with anyone but Adolin. I'm not sure I agree that in general we are arguing whether Adolin could or could not become an Edgedancer. Speaking for myself at least, that is not what I was arguing. In my mind of course it is a possibility, the question is whether I think it is probable, or put another way do I think that is what Brandon's intention was in showing us something unusual happening with Maya? You go through a great deal of arguments that I have read before so I get what has convinced you, and again I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. I come at the whole question from a different perspective and I will briefly try to explain that just so I am clear. When I first finished OB, I did think it more likely that Maya was in the process of reviving. I didn't necessarily assume Adolin would become an Edgedancer because even if Maya were to heal fully, it seems that would still require an additional process so it wouldn't be a foregone conclusion, but I thought it more likely than I do now. After discussion on this board and considering it further, I became more convinced that the perpendicularity is a simpler explanation for the unusual interactions Adolin had with Maya in TC. It's a much greater leap to say that Maya is in the process of reviving and Adolin is in the process of becoming an Edgedancer, so while it is not impossible that is where Brandon is heading it would take a lot to be sure of that. Meanwhile, from a narrative perspective we have a simpler and perfectly viable option for why Brandon could have chosen to show those interactions (to help illustrate what what happening during the perpendicularity). Until we have more compelling evidence for something deeper happening I will go with the simpler explanation. I really come at this from a narrative perspective, as in why does Brandon choose to show this or that, to help me try to figure out where he is going from here. To take just one other example that is used as evidence for Adolin the Edgedancer. Why did Brandon choose to show Adolin helping the prostitute? I believe strongly that the primary reason he showed this was for Kaladin to witness a lighteyes displaying decency, treating a darkeyes with dignity, so that Kaladin could start to reassess his prejudices. Kaladin at that time believed all lighteyes to be terrible people, particularly high ranking lighteyed officers. So having Adolin go out of his way to help the darkeyed prostitute and treat her with kindness was a first and very important step in Kaladin getting over his hatred of lighteyes. The relationship between Adolin and Kaladin has progressed hugely since due to their subsequent interactions and they now have a pretty awesome friendship and Kaladin no longer hates lighteyes. Could there be a secondary reason for that scene in relationship to Adolin as a potential Edgedancer? Sure, but there's really no need for there to be from a narrative standpoint. From a narrative perspective I would like and expect to see Adolin have some kind of impact, but personally I don't feel it has to happen through him becoming a Radiant. I don't expect that he is going to do nothing but stay stagnant as Dalinar's son, Shallan's husband and Kaladin's friend for the next 7 books. But I don't get the sense that Brandon is writing another proto-Radiant arc for him. For instance, I love the idea that @PhineasGage brought in about a potential Greek tragedy like arc (I'm a former theatre major so I'm a sucker for classic tragedy), and I could see other possibilities as well.

Facts & WoBs: Well, Pattern does mention(in.. WoR?) that she shouldn't be limited to using a reference picture. In Pattern's understanding, that her limitations are ones that a normal Lightweaver shouldn't have. Several of the things she does near the end are things she should have already been able to do, and she seems so far advanced in comparison because she's basically taking two steps up. Her suddenly Lightweaving without pictures and Lightweaving with sound were extra bonuses on top of the stuff that actually was new. They are separate characters. Brandon has explicitly confirmed that. (Also, it's Timbre) Kaladin and Dalinar have a military background. Jasnah likes when people have their affairs in order. The KR, barring Lift's Edgedancers, are in good hands when it comes to being organized. Opinions on the Book: I don't know how the political stuff changed as the book went further on, but what was contained within Part 1(Dalinar & Taravangian's political/moral discussions, the Iri talks during Dalinar's duel with Kadash, etc..) was pretty enjoyable for me to read through. Were there any spots in particular that felt tedious to you or was it just politics in general? It might be that you just aren't a fan of that sub-genre, rather than anything to do with the writing. While I can certainly understand this type of reaction, the main reason Evi's death was a specific mystery rather than "one in a sea" like you said after losing the memories is because she was a part of his life. The sea of unnamed victims affected him when he remembered, but without that memory, he'd have to fill in the gaps. He realized there was a gap involving the events at Rathalas when Kadash reminded him of that event, whereas Dalinar was almost certainly reminded of his missing wife much earlier. That quirk to Brandon's writing of Dalinar was reflected in our theorizing about his missing memories. We knew about the wife(and only that) for a long while, so our theories were centered around that and nothing else. We made a big deal about the loss of his wife because we, and Dalinar, weren't aware there was more to that story. Had we known about this mysterious "Rathalas event" around the time we'd learned that Dalinar couldn't remember his wife, we'd have been theorizing about that event instead of about her(which is pretty much exactly what happened when we got the preview chapter hinting at Rathalas). In the end, Evi's death was a big deal because we made it a big deal. And we made it a big deal because Brandon decided to withhold information from Dalinar, which in turn withheld information from us. The big deal got hidden from a character, so the readers decided to make a big deal of their own. This depends on the character in question. Nightblood and Zahel, for instance, were Stormight Characters first, with Warbreaker created to be their backstory. Hoid is Hoid, and is to be expected. Don't know about the others as of yet.

Shallan dying

Thanks Guys! I've read Stormlight 1-3, Mistborn 1-6, Elantris, Warbreaker, Arcanum Unbounded, White Sand and Reckoners 1-3

Hi! I am new to Sanderson’s work but so far I have have read SA 1-3 and have just started Warbreaker. So far I’m loving his works and becoming a big fan. I hope to have lots of great discussions with the people of this community.

Oh I get it now, Scribbler was is the cosmere and that's why he changed the name. I wish it was cosmere though

It was great getting to meet you in person! Same goes for the other two who were there. That was my first time playing House War and wow, it is a really fun game!

Brandon says straight out (and multiple times) in the annotations that Vasher killed Shashara. With Nightblood. She's very very dead. Random aside, Brandon was asked whether being killed with Nightblood means you don't go Beyond. His response was 'nobody knows' saying that it's a subject of debate in-universe and even Vasher doesn't know the answer for sure. Since this touches on the Beyond and we know that's something he wants to leave up to the readers, it may be a question we never get answered.

He had onions for lunch, and he's sorry.

Falconry is, by definition, the sport of hunting with a bird of prey. This includes not only falcons, but hawks, eagles, and sometimes owls as well. The sport has changed over the years, but at the core, it has remained widely the same as it was practiced thousands of years ago. I am an apprentice falconer in the United States, and this is a journal/log of my juvenile red-tailed hawk, Revali. (if you want to ask him anything, he is taking questions here). He was trapped from the wild on August 12, 2017. Before I start into the specifics of Revali's training, here are some general falconry FAQs I've prepared. Revali, day 1 He's seriously confused. He doesn't know what I am, or what's happening. He's having issues standing on the glove. This is a bird directly off the trap. Day 2 That's better. He's still confused, but no longer quite as threatened by my presence. I can perform a full physical exam on him by this day while he is on fist. Day 7, first steps The goal of falconry is to get the bird to come back to you. Here Rev is taking his first leaps to my glove, with a whistle command to get him to associate the whistle with food. Day 10 Day... probably 12? honestly, at this point I stopped counting We've moved outside. October 2017, free flying! Rev is off the line and flying free now, its just a matter of finding him some game to kill. Field video from four days ago: https://ordinaryredtail.tumblr.com/post/169039091914/out-with-the-hawk

Nuuuu Tesh don't go over to them

? This movie is PG.

Why Adhesion?

W00tw00t! Yes, I was so excited to transcribe those. Actually, I did a little dance and a few whoops when I heard them Also, looking forward to watching Jebus eat a shoe.

Nah, Hoid had nothing to do with things like that. That was entirely Preservation and Ruin fighting one another and doing all kinds of stuff. All Hoid did over there was take a bead of lerasium to become a mistborn, and maybe some other small things, but nothing else that is important to the story.

Hi all. Catch up time 'Fraid you have rather gone a bit strong on this one. I was trying to compare like with like - Adolin's actions with Lift's because we saw both of them make similar decisions in similar circumstances. I don't know why Lopen is a Radiant, but he must fulfill the necessary criteria for Brandon, or he wouldn't be one. Adolin clearly doesn't fit the ED mold (yet?) because otherwise he would be one. I don;t think it is reasonable to compare Lopen's progression with Adolin's for this reason. Let's be clear, being in danger is not necessary for progression of an order. Shallan progresses in non-deadly situations. Kaladin hasn't yet. Lopen has, Lift hasn't. This means it is more down to how that individual feels and when they as individuals are ready. Danger is immaterial. My point was that Adolin doesn't put himself in more danger in that moment the way Lift does - she was free and clear to get away but she goes back anyway. Adolin was in serious danger anyway, saving the kid did not (imo) put him in a much riskier position. Again though, this isn't a critiscm of Adolin, what he does is brave and good. But being a brave and good person does not automatically make you Radiant material. Indeed, from the very little we have seen of Malata (and one could even argue, Venli) "good" is so subjective to the spren that it is essentially irrelevant as an alignment. So let us be clear about what we actually know 1) They use Abrasion and Progression (it seems they access Abrasion earlier) 2) According to Nale: They were considered elegant things of beauty. But also would ignore things of great import in favor of smaller things, as some would see it. 3) They were "elegant and refined" and had a reputation for deadliness. 4) Their ideals are as follows: And even this list is not completely unbiased because we know Nale has limited sympathy for the order - he was quite dismissive of their attitude to "matters of greater importance". I'll even leave the stuff from Lift out of it to be clear here! Can we say Adolin meets these criteria? No, because they are way too open to interpretation. It doesn't mean that he doesn't meet them, it is just that there isn't enough evidence to push strongly in one way or another. How important is each aspect? Does it depend on the individual spren's choices? Can a character meet most but not all of the requirements? Does the spren know whether they can guide their potential Radiant down a specific path or not before they bond? We don;t know any of these facts and plenty more thus, we have limited evidence for Adolin becoming ED at best. I would be happier to agree he might become one in a normal setting. But re-awakening a blade? It's never been done before afaik - that is a step above the norm. Once she is awakened, maybe - but we know too little about how that is going to happen. Ultimately, extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. I'm not saying that there isn't some canon to support the idea itmight happen, I just don't see enough to have people stand firmly in the "Adolin will be ED" camp - at best it is an hypothesis. I don't think you understood my point? I said that she is in a unique position - indeed i mentioned 3 specific circumstances that are unique to her. Her unique situation is in fact why i feel that who her bearer is, matters less than her proximity to the perpendicularity and the fact her bearer went into Shadesmar and gained an understanding of what/who she actually is. That is all likely important, but it doesn't automatically mean that Adolin matters - the evidence points to the specific set of circumstances and it is unclear whether any blade held by any bearer would have had the same re-awakening as Maya has, or whether Adolin's attitude matters. That is supremely unclear because we only have Adolin's example. Ultimately a spren and a Herald (given their very high levels of investiture) are not so different. Taln becomes more lucid during the perpendicularity, so does Maya. His definitely doesn't last - we don't know about hers. Adolin doesn't mention her again after the battle so we don't know what is happening there. Why not? Taln, as a hearald, holds a huge amount of investiture. A spren is investiture that has gained sentience. I don't think they are all that different really. Indeed, I think that they were shown to both be affected for a reason, and that reason has to be the perpendicularity. It wasn't coincidence that both gain lucidity that seems to wain as the realms move apart again. But she is bonded. It is a "false" bond i suppose you might say - but she has a bond with Adolin - it just isn't a Nahel bond. They "sync a heartbeat to their essense" (Syl says so in WoR) but they can be called and dsmissed and have some awareness. the sword Oathbringer recognises Dalainar - hence it whimpers rather than screams. So they aren't completely mindless, even prior to the perpendicularity. That doesn't mean Adolin is "healing" her - he might be, but it might be a facet of normal dead-blade behaviour as we see Maya "scream" at Shallan (when she holds her to open the path to Urithiru) but Dalinar only hears a whimper when he picks up OB - so they recognise people. Note that the SF specifically even says to Dalinar, "it hates you less than the others" or something to that effect. This implies that blades typically hate their bearers, at least a little bit. Maya might just hate Adolin less than (eg) Shallan, but that doesn't mean she doesn't hate him at all. Actually it is impossible. I cannot prove that there isn't an invisible pink unicorn that lives on the moon - I can only say we have never found any evidence of one which leads us to suggest that the likelihood is so small that we can say there is no invisible pink unicorn living on the moon. The arguement to counter it is always going to be "maybe you just haven't found the evidence yet". This is why if you want to make an extraordinary claim you need extraordinary evidence. In this case, whilst there is some canon evidence to support the idea of Adolin becoming ED by bonding Maya, there is enough contradictory evidence to suggest otherwise. Ultimately whether or not you believe depends on which evidence you find more compelling. Quick Science lesson - because I can Null Hypothesis and Hypothesis When trying to look at evidence you should use the idea of the null hypothesis and hypothesis to test your arguments. The null hypothesis is the "fall back position" - ie the result you will accept if you cannot "prove" the hypothesis. It therefore holds the "negative" view of any situation - eg this drug is no better than that drug. The hypothesis is the one you test against the hyptheisis - eg "this drug is better than that drug". In the case of Adolin therefore, the null hypothesis must be: "Adolin is not responsible for awakening Maya" And the hypothesis is: "Adolin is responsible for awakening Maya". Then you compare and contrast. I personally find the evidence too contradictory to allow me to go into the hypothesis camp. There is some evidence but given the presence of the perpendicularity we have a serious confounding factor that makes it impossible to say Adolin is responsible. We may find he is partly responsible, but there is good evidence that the perpendicularity is also at least in part responsible so therefore we need more evidence - or a way of removing the confounders - both of which will likely come in the next book. Confounders, for reference, are factors that independently affect the outcome of the results - they may bias us towards the hypothesis if they can't be accounted for and thus render the result next to useless. For a RL example: Drug X gives better results than Drug Y but if all the people taking Drug X are also taking Drug Z then can we be sure whether it is Drug X that is better, that Drug Z is better or is it the duel action of X+Z that matters? Can we trust the results of that study? No, not really, this is why we do big studies and put together big meta-analyses of studies to control for as many confounders as possible. I don't know. Just because I am a pascifist doesn't mean I can't be dangerous. Using violence as a last resort only doesn't automatcially mean you can't be "deadly" when you do finally use it. Not only that, in the quote from WoR it is unclear why the person felt "consternation" - what if they had been doing something bad/wrong and the EDs were there to have them imprisoned? It doesn't have to resulted in violence. Indeed "consternation" doesn't seem a strong enough feeling if you think you are about to be executed: consternation 1. a feeling of anxiety or dismay, typically at something unexpected. I don;t think we can comment one way or another on EDs pascifism - they may or may not have been pascifists. Note, however that given their attributes "loving" and "healing" it seems reasonable to conclude that violence was not going to be their first choice. I largely agree with this. The Good Samaritan was a story about helping your perceived enemies. This isn't Adolin - not yet anyway. He is a good person, but he still has clear ideas on "us and them". Thats fine and normal. Lift, in a way also doesn't actually do "Good Samaritan" stuff but from a completely different point - she doesn't see "us and them" at all really - anyone who needs hep should get it as far as she is concerned. I think my main disagreement with what yo have said is the idea that the growth has to come before the bond is formed. The way I see it, the Nahel bond isn't about the spren finding the perfect candidate and then bonding them. It's about the spren finding someone who could maybe, possibly, eventually become the perfect candidate and bonding them, and then working towards that goal through trying to understand and live a series of ideals guiding how the perfect candidate would live. I think I get what you are saying, but I think Vissy's point was that Adolin doesn't even meet minimum requirements yet, not that he needs to be perfect. I agree that growth needs to happen after. Plant analogy (because cultivationspren) - to become a particular type of tree you need to be a particular kind of seed. If we have an acorn, that seed can only become an oak tree. It isn't going to become a beech tree no matter how well you tend it. Unlike seeds, people can change so, if Adolin is currently an acorn, but Maya wants him to be a beech tree, he needs to become a beechnut before she can help him grow into a beech tree. And most importantly, from an external perspective - does it matter whether as a person Adolin is an oak or a beech tree - both trees are amazing in their own ways - will he be a "better" tree if he is beech than if he stays as an "oak"? I personally think while I would like to see more growth from Adolin (as a means to furterhing the overall story) I don't mind what kind of tree he comes. If he becomes an ED and it further the story, great, if not, and it furthers the story, that is also great. Yes. This is why i don't subscribe to the theory. The hypothesis has merits, but because of the extraordinary circumstances needed to achieve the outcome I don't think we are quite there yet in terms of the evidence. This rather depends on the definition of pacifist. 1. a person who believes that war and violence are unjustifiable. 2. holding the belief that war and violence are unjustifiable. You can believe they are unjustifiable but still participate in a battle. Like @SLNC said, you can be a non-combat person on a battlefield. Even if we assume you are acting with deadly force, that doesn't mean you have to like it. Have we seen Kaladin kill anyone since WoR? He didn't even kill Szeth. He acts as a dodge-tank primarily, not an off tank - he clearly isn't a pacifist but he also clearly doesn't like killing. The situation is not black and white. I think the main argument is that the only ED we know, and her spren, are against killing as an option. Sure, she might be an extremist in these views, but does it not seem likely that an order following the ideals of loving and healing would at least not enjoy killing? The issue is that what is the person terrified of? It could easily be that he is terrified of (eg) character assassination, not actually being killed. His power could be taken away, for example - that inspires terror in politicians - especially authoritative ones. Not to be too political, but let's face it Donald Trump is terrified of the Mueller investigation - and with good reason - it has the power to undermine his authority. Whether you think he did anything wrong or not is immaterial - either he is guilty and is worried what a fair investigation will find, or he is innocent and scared of what a corrupt investigation would find. Both, with good reason, can inspire fear in a reasonable person. Just because you can be deadly, doesn't mean you have to be. Kaladin is literally branded with the word dangerous (well, the glyph, but whatever) but actually we haven't seen him specifically kill anyone since WoR and even that was retconned (I haven't read/seen the retconned version) so I believe in fact his last "official" kill would be tWoK? But I bet you would still call him deadly because if he needed to, he can be deadly - look at the chasmfiend. Side note, a little off topic, but loosely related: I had an interesting conversation with my SO about Greek tragedy. Just for quick reference, the classic ancient Greek tragedy essentially revolves around stuff going wrong because of deliberate actions taken by the protagonist. Usually a kind of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" type story. There are some situations of misfortune that are not attributed to the character for whom the tragedy is playing out, but their actions in response to those situations are what ultimately cause them to fall. I would argue that Adolin possibly falls into this trope - although obviously we haven't got far enough in his story yet to be sure. To be clear, the traditional storyline revolves around an opening action that is a terrible crime but that the protagonist does not recognise as a "bad" action. The stage is set then for a gradual collapse of that character's world, and nothing they do helps them redeem themselves - indeed usually further actions hasten their downfall. To compare, Kaladin's "failures" occur for one of two reasons - either he is undermined by external forces (escapes as a slave failing because he lacked the resources to succeed) or he fails to act (the near assassination of Elhokar and Syl's death). These do not fit the classic tragedy mold. Likewise, Shallan's "failures" occur through outside agency that she failed to take account of (the poor in Kholinar being used by another group to get to her) or through direct outside agency (the abuse of herself and her brother's). The closest aspect to the classic tragedy is the murder of both her parents, however because Shallan herself does not actually justify her own actions in either case it doesn't actually fit the mold. Both could, however potentially be set up for the cause of a classic Greek tragedy storyline if she starts justifying herself - it would a bit off script, but it would still fit the general idea of the mold. Dalinar, in contrast, has multiple failures etc but they all stem from him getting his "just desserts" as a result of being a villain (as the Blackthorn). This is an important difference with the classic Greek tragedy where the protagonist is sympathetic, not villainous. Indeed, his (typically the protagonist is male) actions, in the moment are, at worst, seen as morally questionable, but necessary evils. Interestingly, Aristotle wrote in his "Poetics": ""Tragedy is, therefore, an imitation (mimēsis) of a noble and complete action [...] which through compassion and fear produces purification of the passions." I would argue that therefore having a "tragic" character in the cast in SA fits very well because of the themes being explored around passion and responsibility. Adolin, who feels the most like the "classic hero" is the best candidate from a purely meta perspective to fit this role because it is the heroes of Greek mythology who were most likely to become victims of a tragedy. For example Hercules, Agamemnon, Odysseus, Achilles all had tragic storylines. The interesting thing is that during the progression of the story there would be highs and lows but ultimately the descent is inexorable. Each "good" action is proven to result in a bad outcome because the "good action" was not actually as good as it initially appeared. Thus, even if Adolin does bond Maya, if he is indeed following a classic Greek Tragedy arc, it may not be a good thing at all.

The wedding!!! (Shallan and Adolin)

Woof. Yeah it's rough. Both from a fan standpoint and from a standard VR/gamer standpoint. I absolutely don't know why they thought they could charge $11 for this, especially if it's really "just a demo" as it's claimed to be. But yeah it's rough guys. Okay sure, it's an adaptation, and to a fairly new medium. I'll cut them some slack. But this is pretty dang bad. Do not recommend. Between the VR implementation having issues and it not really being a game... The little things that are off will also irritate your inner fan as well. It's a bad combo that results in a fairly poor (and short, Played 6mins and explored everything) $11 experience for all gamers and Sanderfans. That said, @Argent if you wanna come by and try it some time, I guess I could resist getting a refund.

Still holding out hope he may accidentally write Nightblood.

*Walks slowly on to the the stage* *pauses* *Picks up mic* Ahem... Capricious *Drops mic*

I thought Odium had cornered the Futures market, but buy, buy, buy. It turns out Herdazians have gem nails and not gem hearts, they can bond lesser spren in their nails. The Alethi are very jealous.

It tracks with the previous thread we had on gender; yes, there are more males than females on the Shard. But there are still plenty of us lady-types floating around. Welcome to the Shard.

Wow these are great eveyone! Wanted to do one about one of my favorite parts of Oathbringer, although I'm afraid its not very good.

Quick, someone find Miracle Max! (Sorry. Couldn't help it.)

Stormlight Archive Mistborn

@Nashan'ElinI liked yours, but I'm giving it my own shot. WoK: WoR:

Today was a relatively quiet day in the Restaurant at the End of the Cosmere. Most of the usual people were here, nursing their drinks, talking in quiet tones. They were all worldhoppers, of course. Drawn from all the corners of the Cosmere: Sel, Scadrial, Roshar, Nalthis, Taldain and Threnody. Rosharan heat fabrials warmed the restaurant, while the walls had been tastefully decorated by a native of Nalthis with the Fifth Heightening, so it looked aesthetically pleasing from almost any angle. The floors were plain tile, and at a corner was a Scadrialian machine that played music, operated by a sleepy Scadrilian armed with a bandolier of medallions. The machine only played Scadrilian music, which often annoyed the Nalthis worldhoppers with the second Heightening, but it was tolerated. There was a shining pool outside the entrance, which many worldhoppers used to get here from the Physical Realm. The bartender was always there, greeting newcomers, catching up on news, serving drinks. Only very few of the patrons knew who he truly was, and they weren’t telling. (Yes of course Khriss knows). A sign on the wall stated the rules of the Restaurant. Brawling of any kind is prohibited, either with Awakened Objects, Allomancy, Feruchemy, Hemalurgy, Surgebinding, AonDor, Soulforging, Sand Mastery or plain physical brawling No interplanetary warmongering Be nice to each other. No Hoid. At one table, some of the Seventeenth Shard were grumbling over their drinks about their long drawn-out and futile search for that impossible, thrice-cursed Hoid. They had been joined by a new member, Wan ShaiLu from Sel, whom Galladon had apparently recruited when she showed up in Elantris. She was cursing his name very creatively indeed. They had just come from Roshar, intending to go to Nalthis next. (The King’s Wit was probably laughing very hard indeed all the way in Roshar.) Kelsier sat in a far corner, (Without Marsh today, thankfully) nursing his metal-sprinkled ale. (You had to specify which world’s ale you were ordering, or you might end up with Selish Connection drinks, which made you want to draw for hours, or Rosharan Horneater Ale, which could melt cups.) Being a Cognitive Shadow rather than a physical being inside the Cognitive Realm, he didn’t actually need to drink, but he liked to keep up the pretense. Besides, he liked having Demoux worship him whenever he walked in, which often caused Seventeenth Shard meetings to be delayed. Mostly he sat, absorbing the gossip from all around the Cosmere, always grinning at people at seeming like he was formulating some dark, deep plot. At another end, Khriss was scribbling down her latest thoughts on life, the universe, and everything. Alternately, she could be writing her next Ars Arcana, having just visited Sel. Kenton half dozed beside her. Nazh was doodling Aons on a piece of parchment, thankful for the break. There had been a particularly hasty escape when Nazh had tried to study a naked Dakhor monk at Khriss’ request. She owed him a drink for that one. And there were the Kandra, of course. Mysterious group, they tended to keep to themselves when they visited the restaurant. They never stayed long, only coming in for a short drink before going to whatever Shardworld Harmony was currently showing an interest in. They tended to switch back to their natural forms inside the restaurant, which freaked people out, of course. That’s probably why no one knew their names yet despite them having frequented the bar for years. Vasher had dropped in for another visit in between his trips from Nalthis to Roshar. As per usual, he had a large pile of empty mugs beside him and was currently holding another pint of ale. Vivenna sat beside him, primly reading a book. Blessedly, Nightblood was nowhere to be seen. Iyatil was back, taking Mraize for another spot of Worldhopping. They had just visited Scadrial, and apparently were due for a visit to Threnody, seeing as how Mraize had been bartering for silver knives at the restuarant’s small merchandise stall. Silver was always in good stock in the restaurant, seeing as how nobody wanted their drinks interrupted by a bunch of red-eyed cognitive shadows. The restaurant filled with a quiet, content hum. News flashed relatively quickly through the Worldhopper community. A plot on Scadrial, Harmony facing a red mist. Kandra quietly inquiring after ‘Trell’. Roshar was a dangerous place to be in, currently, due to the Everstorm coming. Business as usual in Sel and Nalthis. On another note, Joshin and Mi’chelle were settling in nicely at Scadrial. Congratulations all around. The bell rang hesitantly, and a ragged figure entered. Her dress was tattered, and hemmed at the knees. She had a glove made of the same material as her dress on her left hand. She was tall, regal, although looking much the worse for wear. She had violet eyes and was currently holding a rather large Shardblade. Rosharian. She blinked, taking in the scene before her. The other worldhoppers barely spared her a glance before returning to their respective conversations. The bartender smiled and waved her over to an empty table. Jasnah Kholin blinked again. “I’m at a bar,” she stated in her flattest voice, “In the middle of the Shadesmar.” Only Vivenna stood to welcome her, shooting an exasperated glance at an inebriated Vasher. “Hello, stranger. You would best leave your weapon outside. Welcome to the Restaurant at the End of the Cosmere!”