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  1. 64 points
  2. 42 points
    When you realize that daleks must be of Odium, since they can only hate.
  3. 41 points
    So we know that Renarin seems to have a special place in the Diagram, and Odium is unable to see his part in it. I can see two possible reasons for this, that might be inter-related. 1. His ability to see the future as Odium sees it changes the future. We know that Renarin seems to have his future seeing ability through Glys' corruption. Presumably (given that both Renarin and Odium incorrectly see Dalinar fall) the future he sees is the same future that Odium has predicted. But this knowledge changes things. For example, Jasnah is set to kill Renarin when he turns around and nods, knowing what she will do and accepting it. That act prompts her to stop. By knowing a future he ended up preventing it. It will be interesting to see if he will start using this information consciously, working against Odium by using his own assumptions about the future against him. 2. He is Like an anti-Odium In the scene "A small bottle" Dalinar reflects that he can't understand why his sons don't hate him. This is particularly striking for Renarin given that we have seen ample evidence of Dalinar' lack of love towards his youngest up to this point. Yet he doesn't hate him, instead he shows extrodinary love and empathy. It may be that Renarin is so different from Odium that he either slips under the radar or Odium simply can't predict his actions because they are so alien to his nature. Curious to hear other theories.
  4. 34 points
    Disagree on pretty much everything. Kaladin is one of many "main characters" and it was nice to not have this book boiled down to Kaladin saves the day. And without digging into every point... There was a lot of character development in this book. Just because it didn't go in a direction you expected/wanted doesn't mean it wasn't there. Dalinar and Shallan both had major development. Dalinar is a more complete character and had to fight to maintain who he is in his own eyes because of it. Shallan is arguably not the same character as she was at the start of the book. Those kind of changes are character development. Edit: and no, Oathbringer isn't the story I thought it would be. And that's a fantastic thing. If a writer only gives me the story I expect what's the point?
  5. 33 points
  6. 26 points
    Below is my case for why Kadolin (Kaladin and Adolin in case that wasn't clear) is the greatest ship of all time! (Disclaimer: I know this won't happen in the books, but I still absolutely love them together.) As an intro, I love gay romance, I read probably too many of them (bless you Kindle Unlimited), and when I finished WoR, the whole reason I found this forum in the first place was to see if anyone else had picked up on the obvious romantic vibe between Kaladin and Adolin. I mean, I may have had a bit of confirmation bias, but I think there is a lot of book evidence to support them. So, onward! Kaladin and Adolin: Would They Be in a Romantic Relationship? Although gay relationships are perceived with various levels of comfort on Roshar in general, in Vorinism such relationships are perceived as the same as heterosexual relationships, though subject to the same prohibitions about premarital sexual relations. Kaladin displays no issue with Drehy’s relationship with a man, and in general neither does anyone else in Bridge Four (although Sigzil has a level of discomfort for not having the proper paperwork.) Kaladin is described of a man of passion by many people. While we have only seen him on page have romantic feelings for a woman, he could very likely translate his passion into romantic feelings for a man. In fact, Adolin is one of the people (see below for relationship timeline) that Kaladin has felt the most passion about; half of WoR is about the strong feelings they have vis-à-vis one another. We have seen another passionate dislike (Shallan) where Kaladin’s strong negative feelings turn into romantic interest, so it is likely the same could happen with Adolin. While Adolin is often seen as an admirer of women’s physical beauty, he doesn’t seem eager to have a physically intimate relationship, and in fact we can take his “missteps” in these relationships as a way of avoiding physical intimacy; if he doesn’t let a relationship progress past the introductory stage, he won’t have to be physically intimate. His one relationship which progresses to a stage with any physical intimacy (Shallan) is a relationship where his partner is determined to make it work, even ignoring his glances at other women (a tactic Adolin has used in the past to escape early from relationships with women.) When Shallan initiates physical contact with Adolin, he is hesitant to respond to it, although eventually he does reciprocate, likely because he knows this is what is expected as him. I suspect while Adolin is not incapable of romantic feelings for a woman, he strongly would lean towards a relationship with a man. We can also take Adolin’s extreme love of fashion as a hint towards his sexual preference; though we do not want to reduce gay men to stereotypes, a love of and focus on fashion is something which in popular culture (and real life, though this obviously varies) is associated with gay men. Kadolin: The Relationship's Progression and the Literary Tropes Involved Kaladin and Adolin meet in a typical dramatic scenario, as you often see in fictional romances. Adolin and his father are surrounded by enemy soldiers and likely to die. Kaladin comes in to save the day, and in the process, aggressively tells Adolin (the battlefield commander at the time) what to do. We now have a setup where Adolin resents Kaladin’s asserting authority in such a manner (especially given Kaladin’s station, as we discuss below) but at the same time knowing that Kaladin saved his life, which sets up interpersonal tension in Adolin as well as external tension between the characters. The perfect setup to have them obsess over each other! We spend most of WoR with Adolin and Kaladin progressing through your typical “enemies to lovers” romance setup. They are involved in many cute antagonistic scenes in which they challenge each other but at the same time show a growing respect between the two. (Notable scenes include the horse riding scene which leaves Adolin in awe of Kaladin, and the dueling ground scene where Kaladin observes that Adolin is a master at the sword even though they get in a fight later.) We also get to see some physical interaction between the two (fighting). At the same time, we start to see how Kaladin and Adolin work extremely well together in difficult situations, including the attack by Szeth and most notably, the 4v1 duel. The latter is of course a huge turning point for Kadolin, as after that point we see Kaladin accepting that Adolin is pretty good for a lighteyes, and Adolin actively trying to befriend Kaladin. But that doesn’t mean their prior passion and obsession over each other should go to waste… In OB, we see a further strengthening of their bond. When Amaram is appointed highprince, Adolin’s first thought it for Kaladin. When they assemble the team for Kholinar, the number one person Kaladin wants to bring is Adolin. After Kaladin freezes in Kholinar, we see Adolin’s amazing tenderness in dealing with Kaladin’s shock and defending him to Shallan when she doubts Kaladin is up to the task in infiltrating the lighthouse; Adolin is incredibly insightful that what Kaladin needs the most is a task, and in fact we see that the task of getting to Dalinar is what helps pull Kaladin out of his depression. Before we get to a couple more literary tropes, I wanted to point out that we get a couple viewpoints at the end of OB where Adolin is a bit miffed that Shallan is acting interested in Kaladin. While you could take the obvious read here, another interpretation is that Adolin is also realizing the romantic attractiveness of Kaladin, and so these moments are a bit discomforting because he’s not sure he can deal with his own feelings for Kaladin. And these feelings then lead to him wanting to get out of the betrothal with Shallan; ostensibly he is stepping aside for Kaladin to be with Shallan, but could it really be that Adolin doesn’t want to be with Shallan because he himself is in love with Kaladin? To highlight a few more effective literary tropes, Adolin and Kaladin exemplify highborn/lowborn or prince/country girl (err boy). Adolin is the son of a highprince, literally at the top of Alethi society, whereas Kaladin is a darkeyes, the peasant class of Alethi society. As I will discuss below, this actually provides them both immense opportunities for growth, in addition to help provide some depth to the passionate conflict discussed above. Another trope which would be at play, if Kadolin came to fruition, is quirky individual reforming the playboy. Adolin is showing jumping from woman to woman, a notorious playboy with a bad reputation. Who better to reform him than our plucky darkeye who overcame horrible injustice and saved the day? Note that all of the tropes highlighted above are used in Shalladin and Shadolin, but are split between the two relationships. With Kadolin we have all these tropes combined in one! The more the merrier Kadolin: Why They Work Despite their obvious differences in social status, Kaladin and Adolin have many similarities. They are both extremely good fighters; Kaladin is presented as the best spearman in the books and Adolin as the best swordsman. They are both immensely loyal individuals who are surprised/hurt when others are disloyal to them (e.g. Jakamov for Adolin and Moash for Kaladin), because they could never imagine acting that way themselves. They are both very honest individuals, often portrayed as being too blunt, but which means they will always speak their minds to one another. Both have fathers who they deeply admire but are not sure if they can live up to; but both of them have moments when they doubt the quality of their father’s character (and Adolin may have more of this to come.) Both have younger brothers who society portrays as “weaker” than them that they want to protect, but both also know their brothers have hidden strengths which society cannot see. Both also can tend towards vengeance, while also have a strong moral compass in other respects, which will allow them to understand the other’s need for vengeance by also providing the perspective to push back on this. Kaladin and Adolin of course have many differences. The most obvious is their social standing, and in this respect they are good foils for one another with Adolin providing Kaladin an example of an honorable lighteyes and Kaladin providing Adolin with an example of a darkeyes who is every bit his equal. On a purely physical level, they are presented as opposites; Kaladin’s dark hair and dark eyes and Adolin’s light hair and light eyes are often mentioned. Their personalities mirror this dichotomy; Adolin is generally positive whereas Kaladin suffers from depression. From a metaphorical sense, Adolin’s name literally means “born into light” and that light is exactly what Kaladin needs in his life at times. Adolin is also associated with the “sun” in the books whereas Kaladin is the “storm”, an accurate summary of this light/dark dichotomy. Kaladin is also a more scholarly type with his background in surgery while Adolin is more practical, always focused on the action-items. While Kaladin can get into his own head, Adolin is better at focusing on what needs to be done. In any relationship, one of the most important things in how each person can help the other grow. I already highlighted above how Kaladin and Adolin help resolve each other’s classist prejudices. Adolin is also one of the most supportive characters in the book (and he actually is a supporting character ), and he displays this enumerable times towards Kaladin in the books, following Kaladin to jail after the 4v1 duel and being Kaladin’s main support when he’s in shock in Shadesmar are two notable instances. (I would argue Adolin’s main concern in Shadesmar is for Kaladin, which just shows the strength of his affection.) Kaladin is all too often shown supporting others, but he sorely needs support in his life as well, which Adolin can provide. Kaladin is also worried about protecting everyone, and Adolin is one of the characters we’ve seen who needs the least protection; Kaladin trusts Adolin can take care of himself! As far as how Kaladin can help Adolin, I think Kaladin’s scholarly side can help bring that out in Adolin. Because of the strict gender split on scholarship in Roshar, Adolin has been pushed by women to read their books and see scholarship from their perspective. As an action-oriented person, Adolin is more drawn to active pursuits. Kaladin can help provide Adolin a form of scholarship to which Adolin will be more inclined – taking action and relating what one has learned to real-world problems. In fact, one of Adolin’s more scholarly moments (cutting through the plateau structure at the end of WoR) is the result of this kind of melding of scholarship and action which Kaladin can help him achieve. Perhaps most instrumentally, Kaladin can help provide Adolin perspective on how the majority of Alethi live, which will help Adolin be the best ruler he can for his people (because, no matter what he wants, he is going to be a ruler.) As Kaladin has a strong sense of leadership (it is one of his order’s traits after all), he can help Adolin not lead out of duty but instead out of a desire to lead, as so far while Adolin is quite talented at leading, he has had to be pushed to take up the responsibility. Kaladin can help provide inspiration in that regard. And well, let’s be honest, Kadolin is just plain hot Conclusion Kaladin and Adolin's relationship is acceptable in-world and both would welcome/accept a romantic relationship with a man. Kadolin follows popular tropes for setting up a romantic relationship. Kaladin and Adolin have similarities which allow them to understand and support each other but enough differences to add spice to their relationship and provide each other avenues with which to grow. Kadolin is the best NB: If anyone would like citations for any of the above, I am happy to provide.
  7. 26 points
    To repeat what's already been said in different words, "character development" does not mean improvement. Yes, Shallan regressed. And? This isn't a power up anime. We aren't trying to see what the next super sayan level is.
  8. 24 points
    Dalinar's arc was fantastic. I love his new oath too, those are words to live by. The moment that made me tear up the most was the return of Taln. After finding out he was tortured for 4,500 years the guy was happy. Happy that he bought humanity so much time. Taln, the truest hero in our world. I'm not a fan of where Shallan's character has gone. "Multiple Personalities" might make an interesting plot device, but it's a very contentious area of psychology. After how realistically Kaladin's recurring depression, Teft+Dalinar's substance abuse disorder and Shallan's prior avoidance mechanisms and panic disorder were displayed, I'm rather sad to see Shallan adopting a Hollywood-ized psychological disorder. Also, if she's set on Adolin now, it would be nice if Shallan stopped being unpleasant to Kaladin. She doesn't even have the thin justification that she's teasingly flirting with Kaladin anymore, at this point she's basically just bullying the poor guy. He's stoic enough to not call her out on it, but the teasing is so one sided at this point that someone needs to tell Shallan to stop acting that way.
  9. 22 points
    I love the book. I suffered from serious sleep deprivation while reading it, there is just no place where you can stop reading properly. Dalinar ascending was definitely impressive, most touching for me was "The Girl who Stood Up" though. Hoid and Shallan together retelling the story was just beautiful. In his youth, Hoid promised to be there where he is needed. Although he himself thinks in the end he was in Kholinar to pick up the Patternspren (I guess it's the spren Elhokar was cut off bonding), I think him giving Shallan a view how to deal with her past is the true need to be in Kholinar. Reading that chapter, I had tears in my eyes. The secret that caused the Recreance was a bit underwhelming for me. That humans are the invaders on Roshar was clear to me beforehand. Nonetheless I see the problems it would have caused for the KR of old. Odium not being only the God of Hatred but of all Passions. I am not sure whether he lied there or not. Be it as it may, I have got the impression that the Thaylen "Passions"-superstition is a remnant of old Odium worship. Renarin has bonded a Sja-Anat spren. Seeing the future is in fact of Odium, but I don't see Renarin as an evil guy. The lines blur between good and evil. Sja-Anat wants to change sides - as she says herself and the Ghostbloods also assume. The letter "E" seems to be Oathbringers Redshirt. Eshonai, Elhokar, Eth dead. For Eshonai I was sad. Elhokar died just when I started to like him a bit better, well Eth was not such an important member of Bridge 4, now he can join his brother who died in WoR. RIP. Moash. What a jerk. And now equipped with a mysterious blade, enabling him to kill the Heralds for good. The Oathpact is in true danger now. When will we get book 4? There we come to the great flaw of Oathbringer. It is too short! I could continue reading forever, I guess.
  10. 22 points
    this one defiantly, also I'm writing this from memory so I might not have it exact.
  11. 22 points
    I think it's pretty clear in the book that Mraize is from Thaylenah.
  12. 20 points
    In a relationship. Yes. Pop culture has next to no good relationships. We need to change that. People learn from fiction and if all they learn is drama all they do is drama.
  13. 18 points

    From the album Elantris Visual development

    Feels good to resume this!
  14. 18 points
    I am proud to finally join the OB discussion board! This one was just too adorable to ignore... Come on, it was such a beautiful set up Even my roommate, who knows nothing about the cosmere (yet) laughed at these two. At the end of the book, we all see:
  15. 18 points
    I was pretty worried about the multiple personality disorder thing. the execution works all right in the sense that it's nothing like the disorder and it's clearly related to her magic. I don't like it, I think it'll require more work to be done right, but when they almost cast Renarin as the Villain I did almost put the book down and stop. Between those things I was nearly done. As for everyone calling Adolin and Shallan boring, I hope your in world relationships are like theirs. Relationships full of temper and insults aren't healthy. Kaladin has a lot of learning to do before he'll make anybody happy.
  16. 16 points
    AG4/AN1 - Aftermath: Ashes The sun rose red the following morning, bloody pools of sunlight spilling through a cloud of ash. Houses gutted by fire creaked and groaned a lament to the dead of Rennan. The village, a lone dark stain on the hillside, was still, the mountain as if holding a wake to the dead. A torn flag fluttered defiantly on a broken flagpole before being torn away, snatched by an angry wind, and lost. Embers died with the passing of the sun, and a new dawn broke over Rennan. Rain fell, and rivulets of water, dark with ash and blood, ran through the streets, the motion all that would separate the scene from a painting. Rennan remained a tomb and a monument to the dead, a macabre tableau of the last moments of life. Storms came, with time, but Rennan’s buildings stood guard, unaware that their charges lay sundered, strewn through them as discarded ragdolls, torn and broken. Seasons passed, and the quiet watch continued, the sentinels of the dead unmoving. Crem fell, and gathered, testimony to the solitude of the guardsmen. Unknown, unloved, now unnamed, they stood. The tomb on the mountain was to be eternal. Storms came, and seasons passed. It was a quiet day, with no rain or wind disturbing the silence, when the first one broke. The stillness, unwary, complacent, was shattered without a chance to retreat. It collapsed with the building, splintering, tearing, and twisting. Almost as if shocked, or broken in spirit, the rest fell over the coming months, beating a solemn rhythm to the passing of an age. AG4/AN1 is over. Fuchsia Ostrich was killed, and Odium’s Sympathisers have won. I very much hope you all enjoyed playing. I certainly enjoyed watching the impact of anonymity, but would love to hear about how it was for players. I’ll give my full thoughts on the game after voting for awards has concluded, both to give me time to formulate them, and to allow me to speak without concern. Voting: There are three Non-Sanderson game passes available to the winners of the vote. Both players and spectators are eligible to vote, and may list as many people as they’d like (but at least five) in order of preference for receiving an award. The STV voting method will be used to decide the three winners. Please use the PM you used to sign up for the game to vote. Voting will remain open for a week, or until every player has voted. Anonymity: Please do not give any indication of which Anonymous Account you were using until the results of the activity voting have been announced. This rule will be waived for those players on the evil team, allowing them to speak about the game from their perspective, and because I’m not going to trawl through 157 pages of evil doc to remove their references to their identities. Anonymous Accounts: Anonymous Account passwords have been changed, and you no longer have access to your accounts. Before the next Anonymous Game, all accounts will have had their PMs cleared, and so will not share personal information with future holders of the account. I’d like to thank Stink for helping with the game, and his excellent writeups in the initial cycles. Mint Heron deserves a great deal of credit for stepping in to help with writeups towards the end of the game. I wouldn’t have managed without them. I'd like to thank Wilson for helping with the balance calls we had to make at points in the game, and for her excellent judgement. Most of all, though, Elbereth deserves recognition for the massive investment she’s put into helping. Anonymous games take a great deal of effort to run, but her writeups and fantastic spreadsheet took a huge amount of stress out of GMing. Doc Links Servants of Odium The Watchers and the Weary Master Spreadsheet Final Player List 1. Amethyst Scorpion - Villager-turned-Bondsmith 2. Azure Mouse - Sympathiser Worldhopper 3. Amber Vulture - Villager 4. Charcoal Hyena - Cannoc - Villager 5. Chartreuse Penguin - Villager 6. Coral Swan - Elyle - Village Lightweaver 7. Cream Tuatara - Villager 8. Emerald Falcon - Aldrick - Villager 9. Fuschia Ostrich - Villager 10. Indigo Weasel - Village Elsecaller 11. Ivory Dragonfly - Nolan - Village Bondsmith 12. Magenta Albatross - Sympathiser Windrunner 13. Mauve Crocodile - Sympathiser Bondsmith 14. Melon Dingo - Quentisan - Village Edgedancer 15. Mint Heron - Kharsis - Villager 16. Onyx Flamingo - Squawk - Village Lightweaver 17. Opal Lion - Villager 18. Oxblood Beagle - Jai - Village Willshaper 19. Pearl Chameleon - Village Elsecaller 20. Plum Rhinoceros - Villager 21. Quartz Zebra - Villager 22. Saffron Iguana - Emalia - Village Lightweaver 23. Sage Kangaroo - Sympathiser Elsecaller 24. Salmon Meerkat - Village Bondsmith 25. Sapphire Elephant - Sympathiser Skybreaker 26. Scarlet Octopus - Village Edgedancer 27. Sunburst Toucan - Vanna - Village Windrunner 28. Taupe Gecko - Villager 29. Turquoise Gorilla - Village Dustbringer 30. Violet Axolotl - Villager Voting will close in seven days time, at 10pm GMT on the 1st March.
  17. 16 points
    I must admit that I was unsatisfied after completing the book. Not disappointed mind you. As a book, it is a literary work of art and IMHO, unequivocally Brandon's best work to date. Having followed his career since the Elantris days, it is both a joy and privilege to experience his craft grow with each passing piece of work, from writing style, story lay out, characterisations through to pacing. It's a triumphant culmination of all the learnings he's amassed through the years. As a fan however, I didn't feel as fulfilled as I did when I finished either TWoK or WoR. The reason I suspect is because of how scattered the PoVs were in the final chapters. With the action coming thick and fast, it was understandable that you'd want to flash cut to events that were occurring simultaneously, but the unfortunate consequence of this was that I felt being forced to let go of the character emotions just after having been engrossed in the moment. It was as if I was Eddie Murphy in Coming to America being asked to play all the different characters in sequence on screen without the time necessary to get in character. In contrast to TWoK and WoR where the focus was on a subset of the main cast, the more extensive PoVs allowed me to immerse myself in the given situation and appreciate what was happening to that specific character, which resonated better with how the story unfolded. While the pacing of how the events were laid out was fantastic, I felt the balance just wasn't there to absorb the full spectrum of emotions from all the different characters. On a more personal level, I had hoped that the Kaladin Shallan romantic tension didn't fizzle out as quickly as it did after all the extensive seeding that happened in WoR and the early parts of OB. Although it might still change until she confesses her dark past to Adolin. I suppose I'm not fussed who she ends up with, but had hoped the seed would mature to more of a story between the cast. Ultimately it was a dream ride and represented a book that delivered on not only all my expectations but exceeded them easily. Can't wait for the next one!
  18. 15 points
    I just want to say that I loved "Sixth of the Dusk" and I want a full book in the Drominad system. Any one else feel this way?
  19. 15 points
    When I was reading through Oathbringer, I made notes about some of the weird stuff that was mentioned. Stuff that's probably foreshadowing. Stuff that might be foreshadowing. Stuff that just seems a bit weird. Mysterious singing, ethereal smoky shapes...you get the idea. All page references refer to the hardcover page number. Anyway, here's my list of some weird things that were mentioned and what (if anything) I think they mean. Very often I don't have a clue, or at least not a good one. If I'd a clear explanation, it probably wouldn't have qualified as a curiosity in the first place! The following are roughly in the order that they appear throughout the book. Without further ado: 1) When talking to Kaladin about his family, Syl mentions a mysterious voice: Is this a reference to Tien? They're talking about his family, so it seems plausible, but I'm not sure why she'd mention it if so. Reminding Kaladin of things that depress him isn't something she generally does. But I don't know what other voice she'd be referring to. It's also another mention of music ("a song like tapped crystal, distant yet demanding"), which might mean nothing but which, as I note below, seems to play a pretty big background role in the Stormlight Archive. 2) Urithiru is weird: I think we can agree that Urithiru probably wasn't built along strange, twisted curves in order to fool invaders. It doesn't seem like the sort of place that would be attacked by anyone ever. How would you get your army there? It's not like Odium's forces could have used the Oathgates, and they don't have all that many Fused who can fly. There's also a line earlier about how there's more air circulating than there should be, though I didn't copy that one down because at the time I chalked it up to clever engineering. The second of the two quotes above indicate that more is going on than meets the eye, though -- no amount of clever engineering would make temperatures higher at Urithiru than on other similar peaks. The weird thing, though, is that this all seems to be happening without Stormlight. Urithiru's been uninhabited for ages, and it's too high up for most highstorms. If it were ancient fabrial tech...that still takes Stormlight, right? Soulcasting does, at least. So how is the place staying warm? Something weird is going on. 3) Dalinar sees a strange shadow-world: Later on the Stormfather claims that he made this in-between place, but the description sounds familiar to me. I can't place it, but I feel like we've seen this place somewhere before. Why would the Stormfather bother to create an in-between world, anyway? 4) Something is different about the Fused's lashings: So why didn't the Fused lash Moash? They can clearly lash people, since Moash himself got lashed upwards during the fight in the same scene and Kaladin later got lashed sideways. Seems strange that they'd choose to carry him rather than lash him. It's not like they're worried about running out of power, either. Later on, we see that the flying Fused use their lashings pretty profligately. I don't have a quote, but there's a scene where one of the Fused hovers while reading a book, apparently just because he/she can. Also, the Fused in Shadesmar are flying about willy-nilly despite Investiture apparently being more difficult to get there. In fact, I don't think we've ever seen a Fused run out of juice. Something's clearly different here. 5) Lopen looks under rocks for some strange reason: Now this could just be an instance of Lopen being weird, but it's hand-waved off a little too blithely for that to be the case. Lopen might be different, but he's not the sort of different that does things for no reason. Maybe he's supposed to be humoring his spren? Syl might want to look under rocks just to see what's beneath them, so that could be it. The scene in question is a pretty touching Bridge Four moment. It seems strange to call out Lopen for behaving bizarrely unless there's some ulterior motive behind it. He's never done anything that seemingly nonsensical before. 6) Odium and his spren appear Shin: Now supposedly Odium came to Roshar along with the humans, so it's not terribly surprising if he and his look like those original humans. But if that's the case, what happened to make everyone else appear non-Shin? We know a few races interbred with the Parshendi, but that shouldn't have given a homogeneous appearance to every non-Shin person on Roshar. Again, something is strange here, either with what happened or with what we've been told. It's also worth noting that stone is clearly associated with Odium and his spren. Where Syl flies about, Odium's spren clearly walk on stone, as seen in the quote above. The Thunderclasts rise up out of stone. This might give a new interpretation to the Shin refusal to walk on stone and Szeth's belief that Urithiru was formed of stone unhallowed. Do the Shin revere/worship Odium? It seems a bit weird -- they're basically pacifists, after all -- but not entirely implausible. Still, they can't really be directly allied with Odium, either. If they were, Odium could've had all the Honorblades by the time of the battle for Thaylen city, since Shinovar isn't all that distant when one's emissaries can fly. Then again, maybe he does have them already and just didn't want to risk them in the battle? 7) Some spren are changed by Sja-Anat, some are not: What explains this? Are hungerspren more of Odium so Sja-Anat doesn't feel the need to corrupt them? Were hungerspren corrupted en masse during some previous Desolation, so that all the present-day "normal" hungerspren are actually the corrupted form of some prior version? There probably isn't enough information to tell what's going on yet, but maybe someone has ideas. 8) Hoid. Strange as always: First, Pattern says Wit feels like "one of us." It's not clear whether "one of us" means a Lightweaver, a Radiant, a Cryptic, a spren, or something else. He also plays around with Shallan's lightweaving/Stormlight in a way that (if I understand correctly) shouldn't be possible: Maybe he's just drawing it from her spheres, but considering that he needed her help to get the lightweaving going in the first place, it seems a bit strange. He's piggybacking off of her somehow. I'm not going to try to guess how, but it's worth noting, perhaps, as a thing he can do. 9) More weirdness with Shallan's lightweaving. Kaladin's shash brand doesn't stay covered up like it's supposed to: Later, Kaladin checks to see that the gem Shallan tied the illusion to still has Stormlight, and it does, so it's not like he sucked it up without realizing it. Kaladin couldn't get rid of his brand in Words of Radiance, and now Shallan can't cover it up for long, either. I get that the WoR thing is due to Stormlight healing, but that shouldn't mess with Shallan's illusion, I wouldn't think. 10) There's some weird humming/singing going around in Alethkar: First, we've got one of the revelers humming in what I take to be a manner similar to Pattern, then later we've got the queen singing a song that Kaladin almost recognizes. I'm not really sure what to make of these, but given the apparent importance of music to the Stormlight Archives so far, I think it's worth noting. 11) Syl freaks out after killing a spren: I'm not sure why she's so upset about killing a spren, honestly. She doesn't have any problem killing humans or Parshendi. She was even protecting Elhokar's baby from the red spren, so she should be happy. Maybe it's because she's a spren herself? But then, she mentions that honorspren hunt at least some types of spren, so that doesn't seem like the answer, either. Again, something doesn't quite add up here. 12) Sja-Anat mentions a son that Shallan could apparently ask for advice: So at first I thought she might have Renarin's spren, but this doesn't work because Renarin isn't even anywhere near Shallan at the time, so she certainly can't stop and ask Glys for advice on whether to use the Oathgate even if she were likely to trust a corrupted Radiant spren anyway, which seems doubtful. So who or what could Sja-Anat be referring to? It has to be someone nearby and who Shallan would find trustworthy. 13) Winespren: sometimes rare, sometimes common: I know it's mentioned that some spren are more location-dependent than others, but why is this the case? I could see it if one country tended to drink a lot more alcohol than its neighbors, but from what I can tell, people all over Roshar are drinking a lot of alcohol. So why would the winespren only hang out in just one spot? 14) Syl's memory doesn't come back at all when she returns to the Cognitive Realm: Maybe I don't quite get what's going on, but since she had to leave most of her memory behind when she left the Shadesmar, I'd have thought that she'd have gotten her memory back when she returned to Shadesmar. Instead it looks like she's going to continue getting it back piece by piece, as Kaladin progresses with his Oaths. From a meta perspective, I get that there are probably narrative reasons to keep her (and thus the main characters) in the dark for a long while yet. But it's still not what I'd expected. 15) Syl doesn't want to enter the lighthouse: This might just be that she doesn't like to be confined, which is established more explicitly later, but I wonder if there isn't something more to it. Pattern goes in and happily starts poking around, so it can't be anything that repels spren in general. 16) Chapter 103: This is Dalinar's dream/vision of Nohadon where he goes grocery shopping. It's pretty weird. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be a dream or if it's supposed to be magical. It doesn't quite seem like either one -- too coherent for a dream, but too incoherent to be a vision. 17) Odium's word versus Preservation's: Mistborn original trilogy spoilers: So anyway, that's my big list of "weird Oathbringer stuff" that might or might not be worth talking about. If there's anything I missed -- and there almost certainly is -- feel free to point it out.
  20. 15 points
    Wax: "You're right of course" Wayne: "Usually am" "Except that one time at Lessie's bithday" You always have to bring that up, don't you? Honest mistake. You put dynamite in the oven, Wayne Gotta hide a gift where nobody will look for it. -Shadows of Self ch 17
  21. 15 points
    When you're out in the cold outdoors and see your breath puffing out in front of you so lean over to your friend and say "My life to yours, my Breath become yours." before exhaling dramatically. When you're at a concert and see that someone across the room from you is wearing an "I am a stick" shirt and spend the entire rest of the concert planning to go over and say "But you could be a fire". Then pout half the evening when they manage to get leave the room before you even stand up. When the text on your birthday cake is in High Imperial. (Best part of my birthday )
  22. 13 points
    Definitely yes, she is dead. But also maybe not. She may be somewhere in between, only mostly dead. Her state is harder to pin down than Schrödinger's Cat when you aren't looking at it. Spren are weird. How do you kill an concept? You get everyone to stop thinking about it and forget it. But she is the blade of the most famous Alethi swordsman, no one will ever forget her. So she is definitely dead. But she is also maybe, probably not dead. Not entirely. Just enough to give hope. Death doesn't quite work the same way for spren. Syl was killed by Kaladin, and he is still apologizing to her for that. Oathbringer is dead, but it screams slightly less when Dalinar holds it. Dead things scream. Maya is dead, but she walks, follows and protects, yet sees nothing. She is angry, and she is dead. Her oath holder is dead, so there is no renewal of Oath's loophole that un-killed Syl, and all spren would consider her to be irevoccably dead. Even if she is walking around and screeching while being kinda creepy and gross. If you are getting a headache, you're in the right mindset. She is definitely dead. She also might be alive. Spren are weird. To better answer your question, maybe you should define what you consider to be alive, and what is dead, or non-living. Biologists have been struggling with a single, unified method to define something as living, or not. And they don't have to deal with spren. So when asking if a Deadeye is alive or dead, I can only really give an answer of yes.
  23. 13 points
    I love the first explanation. Much like burning atium messing with another person's atium shadows.
  24. 13 points
    DIE SHALLADIN DIE Thank goodness. That was... Amazing Wit you bastard. Attracting a cryptic... Dalinar... Sort of ascended? Amaram totally did the double weilding thing. 2 new Windrunners. Storms I loved Lopens oath. Loved it. So much. That was HILARIOUS. And dalinars struggles... Holy cow. I nearly cried. renarin and a corrupted yet good Spren? jez was who we thought he was, and FREAKING MOASH KILLED HIM? I AM GOING TO STRANGLE UOU MOASH Taln. Let it be known. Taln is my man. Insult him at your own risk. Szeth. Was awesome. as was lift. Storms this was stuff I didn't expect until book 5! Im glad Kaladin failed to find his fourth oath. Would have felt repetitive. I would like to see some more growth there. Also, HA to the Shalladin shippers. Also, Adolins sword? If he's not going to heal it then I don't know what will. He's awesome with that sword. This book was amazing. I need to reread that letter. im almost underwhelmed by the secret of the Recreance. But at the same time... also, Taran is going full evil. Fantastic. Siblings of the Stormfather? Flying ships? I AM SO EXCITEEEEEEEE I WANT FLYING SHIPS TO BOMBARD ODIUM. So many awesome things in this book. What broke Jasnah? shadesmar was awesome. Renarin. Things. Epicness. Can I even describe the experience of reading this book? It was so DAMNATION good.
  25. 13 points
    No, Jasnah is the new monarch. I also got that wrong the first time I read it.
  26. 12 points
  27. 12 points
    Szeth and Nightblood. Insane man and sword that just wants to destroy evil...where the sword is the voice of reason.
  28. 12 points
    I must also throw my hat in for Vin and Elend, and Kaladin and Syl. But speaking of hats the truly best relationship in the Cosmere is Wayne and Hats.
  29. 12 points
    Let me start off by saying, I loved the book; however, I have to say I finished it a bit disappointed that there wasn't more. I just kept waiting for the (mistborn style) major, out of nowhere, mindblown plot twists that we've come to love from Sanderson, and it just never arrived. - The Dalinar plot line was very satisfying but quite predictable. I'm still hoping that there is more to learn from the "unite them" ripple effect. - The Shallan storyline felt so stagnant. I feel the following expresses where Shallan is regarding her personal issues in part one: And then it's stays that way throughout the book. A character that I have loved is becoming so tedious to read about. - Similarly, not too much added to Kaladin's storyline. Yes, he is at odds about whether or not he should be fighting parshmen. But this is nothing new. I very much needed to know what his fourth ideal is to get progression from his character arc. I yelled at my book on 4 separate ocassions; "what are the words!?" - So much build up for Szeth, all this emotional anguish from prior books, and there was zero payoff for it in this book, his character has just become so bland. Hoping for more in future books. - Adolin was the real star for much of this book in my opinion. Very much enjoyed his progression and I might tear up thinking about his shard blade. - Moash was a wonderful surprise. He brings a new element to the plot, and I can't wait to better understand his motivations. - Elhokar's story arc was my favorite. It's just so tragic and beautiful. But Finally, Do we really believe that Humans being the invaders to Roshar is what caused the recreance? There must be more to this right? That alone cannot be the reason, it's not nearly big enough, and more importantly it's been obvious since book one. I don't accept it. This is misdirection/slight of hand by Brandon. There will most certainly be more to this. There are many other things that I am irtitated about but I will not get into them now as I have already been much too negative about a book I enjoyed. I genuinely love Sanderson's world and characters, and still think the book is exceptional just not nearly as good as his first two in SA. Perhaps my expectations are skewed based off some of the reviews prereleased prior to the book, or sanderson's past works. Or maybe I'm just accustomed to his trilogies and my expectations need to be adjusted as he writes this grand epic. Overall, thank you Brandon and all of you involved for all of your hard work in releasing this book. I can't wait for the next one.
  30. 11 points
    As OB finally sinks in, I keep remembered choice passages. I am sorry if someone already meme'd these! Oh Jasnah... I really do like your character. It's rather entertaining with you around. And come on Mr. T... Did you have to? I mean that Diagram has been off enough times that in research, this is normally when you scrap everything and do a literature search again. Too bad Google Scholar doesn't have Cosmere. I checked.
  31. 11 points
    I saw this somewhere else, but I don’t know where, so I can’t give the person credit. Now that Shallan has married Adolin, she is a Semi-Kholin.
  32. 11 points
    As someone on here who is primarily interested in character development and discussion, I have to say that closing the ASK thread down came as rather a shock. I wasn't extremely attentive to the thread, so I can't say with confidence that I really know what went on. I do know that whenever the ship came up in the general forum (outside the ASK thread), I felt that I had to walk on eggshells with how I talked or else I risked an explosion of antagonistic comments, not just from those that opposed my view, but from people who hated the discussion period. I personally told several new posters to go to that thread so that the Shard could be a place where the people who didn't want to see the discussion, didn't have to, in order to promote peace within the forum and keep the contentious and controversial shipping conversation moderately contained. I know that before OB's release, the forum was littered with threads that had devolved from their intent into a shipping war, and I'm not a supporter of that. I thought that was kind of the point of having a mega-thread in the first place. I understand that that ultimately failed in design, but in response to your thoughts, Chaos The question I have here, is how would this stop what happened before from happening again? Regardless of intent in what's been going on, how do we ensure that people, like myself, feel that they can discuss things like characters and relationships? I mean, I like the 17S. I like the crazy crackpot theories that other people come up with. But characters are what I love most. I just started a forum post in OB about Shallan's development as a character. But even in my original post, I felt that I was required to state that any shipping discussion in my analysis would be approached from as neutral a ground as I could make it. Perhaps there should be a forum dedicated to just character discussion, with a subforum of relationship discussion? Kind of like there is with Cosmere Theories? It, however, is your job to protect people from feeling like they aren't welcome. If you feel like your opinions aren't welcome, why should you as an individual feel welcome? I mean, it isn't like we are advocating dangerous ideas or politics etc, it's a book. So in a way, a bit like a government, you should protect minorities simply because they don't have the power of the masses. Also, I agree with both points here. I don't think it's your guys' job to protect minority opinions, but I do also think that comments directly targeting a subgroup of forum posters, like those that are explicitly antagonistic toward the Shalladin group, are examples of something that moderators should look out for. To quote Elenion: I believe the problem stems from the fact that the minority opinions (shipping, character discussion, etc.) don't feel supported. For me, it's not that I think moderators shouldn't have an opinion. But I, and I'm sure many others as well, feel that when a moderator gets on and begins to actively attack an argument, that arguing back in response is going to get them modded or banned. I had a debate with Greywatch in the "Adolin Breaking" thread where I genuinely was afraid I was going to get modded. It's one of the only times I've even talked to them, and it was over the definition of what "Mary Sue" meant. It's one thing to try to debate with someone who has a lot of reputation, I'll get to that in a minute, but when you disagree with someone with that "Moderator" tag, it feels a bit like you can't argue, or you risk being modded. Especially when they're strongly opinionated or very vocal about their stance. My personal thoughts on the matter are simply that if you're acting as a moderator, you should stay out of the forum discussion. Maybe use a different account when you're doing moderator business, versus when you're engaging in discussion as a civilian. Or maybe have your responses a different font or color, so that when people see you coming down on someone publicly, they know you're doing it as a moderator, and not to argue as a poster. I don't really know what the solution is, but as a civilian member of the boards, I get nervous whenever I see that moderator tag openly disagreeing with me. I have no such compunctions when I see maxal or FifthofDaybreak arguing with me, and I've had some fun discussions with both of them where we didn't see the same side. As far as reputation goes, I actually like it. It's nice to see when my posts get a lot of likes. I put a lot of thought into them, and seeing my rank/reputation go up is extremely validating. It doesn't always happen, but every time it does, I tell my wife "Hey, guess what? I ranked up again!" or something to the effect. She probably thinks I'm a bit crazy for getting so excited about that, but for me, an entire removal of the system would be discouraging. Rewards work--they show people not just what is popular, but also what is well-done, and I like to think that the majority of my reputation has been earned from how well-thought out and cohesive my posts are. I hope that makes sense. I'm not trying to be contentious, but I thought this would be a good opportunity to voice my thoughts on the matter. EDIT: Uh...good. Because that's like 90% of my posts.
  33. 10 points
    I theorize each Shard has its own “pathway to power.” This pathway is the conduit down which a Shard’s Spiritual Realm power enters the other Realms. Each pathway is a unique medium for the transmission of magical energy between the Realms. Metal, spren, water, and electromagnetic radiation (EMR) are examples. The idea and term “pathway to power” comes from Marasi’s POV in this Bands of Mourning passage (Chapter 28, Kindle p. 359, emphasis added): Here’s how I think pathways work in my magic systems model: 1. A magic user consumes a “catalyst” to start the magic (burns metal, infuses Stormlight, dehydrates, drains “color,” etc.) 2. The catalyst activates each Shard’s pathway to Spiritual Realm power. 3. The Spiritual Realm releases power down the pathway. 4. Each magic system’s Focus shapes the pathway to choose which power is released. 5. The Focused power Invests the magic user. 6. The magic user directs the Invested power for some magical effect. Brandon says, “The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do [emphasis added].” Elsewhere he says, @Jofwu calls the “unchanging/unchangeable” aspect of a Shard its “nature.” Because power isn’t “related to the Shards,” I believe a Shard’s pathway solely causes its nature. Each pathway transmits power differently. Ruin could use the same powers as Preservation; but Ruin’s increased net entropy pathway (“decay”) directly opposes metal’s crystalline molecular pathway (“stasis”). It’s “more natural” for Ruin to steal Allomantic powers by increasing net entropy (spiking). Jofwu calls a Shard’s changeable aspect “the Vessel’s expression of the Shard.” I think the Vessel’s expression embodies Brandon’s axiom that perception guides the use of power. IMO, a Vessel’s expression decides “the WAY the magic is obtained,” “the means of getting powers”: “Ruin stealing, Preservation gifting.” Ruin, for example, could give magic users power in ways other than spiking to express entropy. Brandon may have “flavored” pathways and expressions to correlate with Adonalsium life stages, a Jordan-esque “Wheel of Life.” I’m going to try to weave each Shard into a matrix of expressions, pathways, energy transmission mechanics (each pathways’ “science”), life stages, and narrative. I list the Shards in order of their “life stage.” Lots of speculation here. Enjoy the ride! Fortune [SPECULATION] Expression: Grants Foresight Pathway: Space-Time Continuum Mechanic: Special and General Relativity Life Stage: Conception Narrative: Adonalsium conceives the Physical Realm as a space-time continuum We don’t know whether “Fortune” is a Shard, but it’s a good candidate as hinted by its name. Here’s some speculation: Space-Time in the Cosmere Fortune tells Hoid (the most accomplished seer, says Azure) where and when he needs to be, but not why. It sounds like Hoid taps into the cosmere’s space-time continuum. Brandon believes in probabilistic time: “Possibilities upon possibilities, compounded upon one another. Infinite, overwhelming. The future.” (M:SH, Part Three, Chapter 3, Kindle Locs. 1055-1056.) Since our physics and the cosmere’s are the same except for Investiture, I think space-time constitutes the Physical Realm’s fabric, the substance that permeates the Physical Realm. Except possibly for Cognitive Realm splinters, Adonalsium’s mind and soul are alone until he creates the Physical Realm. IMO, conceiving space-time must precede the Physical Realm because the Physical Realm begins linear time, something unknown in the Spiritual Realm: “Time…had no relevance here. It was not a place. Location had no relevance. Only Connection…” (M:SH, Part Three, Chapter 3, Kindle Locs. 1031-1032.) IOW, space-time doesn’t exist in the Spiritual Realm except as a Connection between a soul and its place and time. How Fortune Works? Surprised by the Diagram’s accuracy, Odium tells Taravangian, “You did this without access to Fortune, or the Spiritual Realm?” (OB, Chapter 122, Kindle p. 1215, emphasis added.) This suggests accessing Fortune is an alternate means of seeing the future, different from looking directly into the Spiritual Realm like Kelsier does in M:SH. Fortune seems to avoid the “mind-breaking” Preservation warns Kelsier about. I think Riino’s globe (the “Rii Oracle”) is an example of an “interaction with nature” magic system. “Invested” mortals like Kaladin can interact with Fortune, but they can’t direct its magic. The Oracle seems filled with Fortune’s Investiture (a “milky light” that changes colors, unlike the Ire’s “blue-white light.” (M:SH, Part 5, Chapter 2, Kindle Loc. 1356.) Touching the Oracle IMO Connects Kaladin to space-time. Through that Connection, Kaladin sees Dalinar’s future confrontation with Odium in Thaylen City. Riino later places his bartered Stormlight in “some kind of globe.” (OB, Chapter 99, Kindle p. 926.) If this “globe” is the Oracle, it’s possible Riino needs to replace Stormlight Kaladin consumes to Connect to Fortune. This makes thermodynamic sense, because you need energy to access the Spiritual Realm, even “at the beginning of the highstorm…when realms blend.” (OB, Chapter 97, Kindle pp. 910, 911.) IOW, Kaladin may have accessed Fortune by consuming a Stormlight catalyst the Oracle holds to fuel his Connection to the Spiritual Realm. The Oracle’s magic to me resembles Aviar as much as atium. Aviar warn their bonded mortals about imminent danger. The Oracle sees farther than Aviar or atium, as we might expect from Fortune. Like Aviar, the Oracle creates a Cognitive Connection with Kaladin – the Investiture seems to know he’d want to see Dalinar’s dilemma. Other Thoughts It’s unclear whether Fortune has its own Shardworld. It may be the “Shard that isn’t on a planet,” appropriate for the Shard whose pathway is space-time. Maybe black holes are Fortune’s perpendicularities? I’m curious if we’ll find mortals who can direct Fortune’s magic along its space-time pathway – starship navigators like Dune’s Guild? Fortune may make FTL space travel possible, through black holes or as a navigation guide. FWIW, Feruchemical “Fortune” and the Shard Fortune (if there is one) may not be 100% the same thing: “when they use the word ‘fortune,’ do they mean exactly what the Feruchemical – and the answer is no. But it is a very similar concept.” Endowment Expression: Grants Life Pathway: Electromagnetic Radiation (EMR) Mechanic: Quantum Mechanics Life Stage: Birth Narrative: Adonalsium creates the cosmere: “Let there be light.” Quantum mechanics describes the behavior of matter and energy at the level of atoms and subatomic particles. Photons are a quantum of light. Breaths are essentially a quantum of Investiture. Quantum mechanics metaphorically fits the “Let there be light” moment, as does Endowment’s EMR pathway. Brandon says Endowment wants to start a cosmere market for magic. She creates Breaths by, IMO, adding life to photons, the “bio” in “biochroma.” Each Breath grants more life (the Heightenings). Even non-Nalthians can hold Breaths. This portability, Breath scarcity (related to the number of native Nalthians), and the fact Breaths as quanta are Investiture’s smallest usable “unit,” make Breaths the ideal currency for Endowment’s magic market. I believe that’s why Endowment chose Nalthis to reside on. I characterize Endowment as an “angel investor.” Her investment (uncoincidentally IMO) gives birth to the magic market. Endowment “endowed” Nalthis with a nest egg that, “Invested” wisely, could generate wealth for millennia. Her name shows how she interprets her pathway. Her social endowment includes the Returned, the prophetic avatars of her divine ideals. Devotion Expression: Sustains Life Pathway: Sub-Surface Ground Mechanic: Geothermal Energy Life Stage: Newborn Narrative: Adonalsium creates planets AonDor seems particularly location-dependent even for Sel. To me, Elantris resembles a newborn who fully depends on its mother. Aon Rao infuses Elantris and Elantrians with the Dor (like mother’s milk). Once the Shaod takes them, Elantrians don’t need any other form of sustenance – Devotion “nurtures” them eternally. The broken chasm line deprives Elantrians of their ability to heal and draw Aons, but they remain immortal. Elantrians lose Aon Rao’s power amplification as they distance themselves from Elantris (and their mother’s Spirit). I associate planet formation with Devotion. After its sun, a planet’s secondary energy source is geothermal energy, left in a planet’s mantle and core when formed. (The warmth of a mother’s love?) Geothermal convection at a planet’s core causes tectonic plate movement on a planet’s surface, like what happened with the chasm. I believe Devotion and Dominion chose Sel because their pathways and mechanics suit a world that (IMO) holds Adonalsium’s inherent Investiture in its ground. Honor Expression: Makes Cognitive Connections Pathway: Neural Synapses Mechanic: Synaptic Plasticity – affects the strength of synaptic connections Life Stage: Infant Narrative: Adonalsium begins to Connect his creations into Spiritwebs Infants start to explore and Connect to the people and things in their world. Neural synapses are how the brain makes Connections. Synapses are the gaps between neurons across which the neurons electrically communicate. IMO, synapses are Honor’s pathway. “Synaptic plasticity” refers to the ability of synapses to strengthen or weaken over time in response to synaptic activity levels. Perceived Connections between people, planet and things, reinforced with use, strengthen synaptic connections. Spren enter the Physical Realm through a Cognitive bond with their host. I believe Roshar’s spren bonds attracted Honor to Roshar. Surgebinders get Honor’s magic from the Nahel bond, a form of Cognitive Connection. IMO, oaths reinforce the Connection by strengthening the synapses in the KR’s brain hooking him to his ideals (the Radiant spren). Broken oaths end the synaptic Connection, leaving a mindless spren that’s missing “a piece of [its] soul.” Dominion Expression: Sets Rules Pathway: Ground Surface Mechanic: Gravitational Potential Energy Life Stage: Toddler Narrative: Adonalsium creates the cosmere’s “unifying laws” Dominion’s form-based “programming” gives access to the Dor. IMO, these forms are 2-dimensional representations of local landscape features, an “overlap between language, location, and magic on the planet…” (AU, “The Selish System,” Kindle p. 18.) On Sel, each unique magical population culturally interprets its native landscape. I think these interpretations become Dominion’s forms. My choice of gravitational potential energy for Dominion’s mechanic may seem weird. Potential energy is stored energy that doesn’t do anything until motion turns it into kinetic energy – like a rock that begins to tumble. Gravitational potential energy depends on the relative height of different parts of the landscape. Even minor elevation differences can yield energy. On Sel, “Vast continents and sweeping oceans create a diverse landscape, with an extreme amount of variation on this one planet.” (AU, Kindle p. 17, emphasis added.) Khriss describes “powers that permeate the landscape.” (AU, Kindle p. 17.) I speculate Dominion’s landscape-based access codes unlock Sel’s gravitational potential energy. At least some Selish magic seems activated by motion: Elantrians draw, JinDo dance, and Bloodsealers and Forgers impress essence stamps. Is Forton’s potion stirred? Perhaps this motion converts the potential energy into the kinetic energy that summons the Dor? Other Shardworlds’ magic systems don’t seem to start with motion. Linking gravitational potential energy with the toddler stage seems appropriate. A sedentary infant’s potential energy becomes the mobile toddler’s very kinetic energy as they learn to resist gravity and move. As the toddler’s world expands, authority needs to set boundaries on that energy. Dominion says, “Know your land and take dominion over it before you can extract its magic.” Cultivation Expression: Transforms Pathway: Life Mechanic: Evolution Life Stage: Puberty Narrative: Adonalsium “transforms” the cosmere to create life I leave Cultivation’s “life” pathway vague. If all cosmere life existed only in the Physical Realm, her pathway might be “living cells.” But spren, seons, and skaze are alive too. I believe Cultivation’s life pathway also winds through them. I think Roshar’s spren are the pathway that brings Cultivation’s power to Roshar’s native flora and fauna, the KR, and fabrials. Stormlight activates the spren pathway to manifest the power each spren personifies (fire, wind, gravity, growth, etc.). Khriss says, “this pattern (the bonding of spren to human) is merely an expansion of what already exists in the nature of the planet.” (AU, “The Rosharan System,” Kindle p. 536.) I believe Cultivation causes this “expansion.” IMO, Radiant spren are Adonalsium spren until Cultivation transforms them. Mutation is an evolutionary process. To me, the source of a KR’s power is the Radiant spren, made from some combination of Honor's and Cultivation's Investiture. The Nahel bond’s Cognitive Connection gives the KR the ability to direct the Radiant spren’s power and enjoy power’s benefits (like self-healing). I believe Cultivation also transforms Dalinar, Taravangian, Lift, and Renarin to help them resist Odium. Dalinar recovers his memories in time to assimilate and integrate them before Odium uses those memories to assault him. Cultivation knows Odium will come to Taravangian on his "bad" days, and I suspect Taravangian’s compassion – his Connection to others – will aid him. Cultivation changes Lift so she can metabolize food into Stormlight. Cultivation (IMO) changes both Renarin and Glys so they can bond each other. Renarin's name shows his uniqueness: “Like one who was born unto himself.” (OB, Chapter 52, Kindle p. 515.) Puberty transforms a person and makes them capable of creating life. That seems the natural life stage for Cultivation’s expression and pathway. Autonomy Expression: Grants Self-Sufficiency Pathway: Water Mechanic: Fluid Mechanics Life Stage: Parenthood Narrative: Adonalsium makes a planet with (IMO) its own self-sufficient consciousness Life needs water for self-sufficiency. Like Autonomy, water easily changes form. Autonomy prefers ocean worlds like Taldain and First of the Sun. Fluid mechanics (which includes aerodynamics) seems an appropriate choice for Bavadin, whom I believe is a shape-shifting dragon. Khriss says a Sand Master’s body water forges a temporary bond between him and the sand microflora. (AU, “The Taldain System,” Kindle pp. 369-370.) This bond lets the Sand Master draw Investiture from the Spiritual Realm to control the microflora’s growth and, consequently, the sand. IOW, water is the pathway down which the Sand Master pulls power from the Spiritual Realm and pushes it into the microflora. Brandon calls Roshar a “created” world. I think Adonalsium made Roshar last. The closeness of Roshar’s Cognitive and Physical Realms suggests Adonalsium gave Roshar its own self-sufficient consciousness. Roshar may represent Adonalsium’s Planet 2.0, a child planet that will grow itself. Roshar, FWIW, is also an ocean planet. I think the Urithiru basement icon of a figure with arms out-stretched above a blue disk refers to whatever consciousness raised the Rosharan continent from the water. Autonomy later does the same when its avatar raises the Pantheon. I suspect much of Autonomy’s “assigned Investiture” is found on Roshar. Preservation Expression: Maintains Stasis Pathway: Metals Mechanic: Metal Science Life Stage: Middle Age Narrative: Adonalsium is content with the cosmere as is Metals form regular crystal structures and have the lowest entropy of the matter states – closest to stasis. Adonalsium looks at his creation (the cosmere) with middle age’s self-satisfaction. He wants to keep what he has. Odium Expression: Breaks Cognitive Connections Pathway: Neuron Death Mechanic: Nonsynaptic Plasticity – affects neurons’ intrinsic excitability; overexcited neurons can cause cell death Life Stage: Later Age Narrative: Adonalsium ages, loses Connections, and foresees his death As people age, they lose Connection with family and friends. They become less responsive and lose their affect. Perhaps the Fain causes Adonalsium’s slippage – is the Fain a Physical Realm representation of Adonalsium’s Cognitive decline? Does Adonalsium foresee the need for heirs? I believe Odium’s magic users get their power by breaking their Cognitive Connections to other people. That’s my lesson from Odium’s failed attempt to turn Dalinar. Empty of feeling – “Alone…So alone” – Odium’s magic users fill their void with power. “Passion” can break these Connections – hate blinds, as does lust, gluttony, and shame. Though not passion, irresponsibility also breaks Connections – “It’s not my fault…” I think Odium’s pathway is neuron death. One way: high neuron stimulation over time (like from passion) can overexcite and kill neurons (“excitotoxicity”). To regain their power, a returned Fused IMO must lose more neurons to break more Connections. This may explain why many Fused can’t speak and appear imbecilic – they’ve come back so often and suffered too much brain damage. Odium is the Shard murderer. He kills the Vessel’s mind, leaving the Shard’s power undirected. IMO, Odium holds “the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards” because of his neuron death pathway. Ruin Expression: Decay Pathway: Increased Entropy Mechanic: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Entropy Life Stage: Death and Decomposition Narrative: Adonalsium dies and “decomposes” – Shatters into 16 pieces of greater entropy “Hemalurgy has a huge cost, ending in net entropy,” since power is lost in attribute transfers. I think a Hemalurgical victim’s decaying blood and Feruchemical attribute conversion into Investiture are examples of Ruin’s pathway of increased entropy. Hemalurgy uses metal as a Focus, but metal is Preservation’s essence, not Ruin’s. I think Ruin uses metal because it has the lowest entropy. Other choices would lose too much power in transit. To me, it makes thematic sense the Ruin-Preservation war should oppose entropy with the cosmere’s most entropy-resistant substance. Ruin ruined Ati. It decayed his will and personality until he gave in to Ruin’s destructive impulse. In Ati more than any other Vessel, nature and expression merged. Other Shards I omit Ambition because we only know its magic inferentially. I also agree with many posters that Wisdom is a Shard, but again, we don’t know its magic. I can certainly envision Ambition and Wisdom as Adonalsium “life stages.” Ambition falls between “self-sufficiency” and middle age. Wisdom should come between middle age and Cognitive decline (or so I’m told). Other Topics I discuss these topics in the following Spoiler: Recent WoB Supports Pathways Theory Meaning of “Essence” “Catalyst” as Cosmere Word Why Non-Metal Catalysts Are Invested The Role of Catalyst in Cosmere Thermodynamics: Awakening Catalysts and Identity
  34. 10 points

    From the album Elantris Visual development

    A character sheet for Ashe I guess?
  35. 10 points
    Not as funny but what the heck.
  36. 10 points
    Where is Wit's flute? What's so special about it? Who has it now? Will Kaladin ever learn how to play the flute? It was lost at the end of TWoK when Kaladin left it in Sadeas' camp. Amaram never mentions it, Ialai never mentions it, but Wit seems unworried about it.
  37. 9 points
    The Fourth Ideals of all orders that follow the regular oath system, is about when to stop following your ideals. This Windrunner has trouble understanding the fourth oath because it goes against protecting. (Note: The next sentence only works when assuming the elsecaller oaths are about being logical and Jasnah swearing four out of five oaths) Ivory tells Jasnah that she did the right thing when saving Renarin, even when it goes against the logic of the known fact they known. Renarin is bonded to a corrupted spren and is probably using voidbinding. The skybreakers Ideal of Crusade(4th Oath) can teach the Skybreaker when to have compassion on those that break the law, which they need for the fifth oath, Ideal of Law. The windruuner need to know when not to protect, so he can protect others. Jasnah needs to know that logic, do to lack of not knowing everything, can't be the only deciding factor. The Radiants need restraints.
  38. 9 points
    “I need you to stay behind as we go into those slums,” Wayne said, determined to impress solemnity into his voice. “It’s not that I don’t want your help. I do. It’s just going to be too dangerous for you. You need to stay where I know you’re safe. No arguments. I’m sorry.” “Wayne,” Wax said, walking past. “Stop talking to your hat and get over here.”
  39. 9 points
    He and Ash may have been an item based on her familiarity with his hands. That would make Taln even more amazing in hindsight if he just sort of followed Ash into godhood to not leave her side. It would also give parallelism with Shallan+Adolin's current relationship.
  40. 9 points
    Lots of good points here so far. Everyone seems stuck on the idea that it has to be one movie. Hollywood turned The Hobbit into three movies. Stormlight books can definitely be broken up into two movies each. I don't see why they wouldn't be. One movie per book risks stripping too much of what makes them good, and there's definitely enough engaging content in each book to fill two movies. That gives us a good 5 hours (plus or minus) to work with. Movie 1: Movie 2: Notes: 1. Skip the Prelude. The key points of information gathered there can come from other discussions and Dalinar's visions. 2. Scrap MOST of the interludes and flashbacks. Szeth is the notable exception. 3. Sprinkle short glimpses of battle with Parshendi before/after Dalinar and
  41. 8 points
    Hidy ho all, First of all, yes this is still a thing. It hasn't gone away, yet. Which is why I'm posting this here. If your in America, or know someone who is, either go yourself or get them to go to battleforthenet. They have a form letter, that you can sign, which will send to your senator/congressman. Sadly, we are still fighting for our rights on the internet. And we need help from folks like you, your parents, your siblings, your next door neighbors, that creepy guy at the end of the block, your second cousins twice removed, ect. The above site, will give you a phone number to call, which will connect you with your reps. You can then ask them to fight for a free and open internet. Here's the latest email I have from battle for the net:
  42. 8 points
    While I agree with you I think Captain Kaladin has a nice ring to it. Just roles off the tongue. General Kaladin not so much. Maybe Colonel Kaladin? Radiant Kaladin sounds cool though but he still has some oaths to go before I think that title should be used officially. Anything but Brigadier Bridge Boy.. Lol BG Bridgeboy. Ok, because this is a long post, as an FYI you can probably skip everything and go straight to the Important Part below. Everything before that is mostly background. Hi! I'm back from a rather long hiatus and pleased to be rejoining you. I saw this post and having been an Air Force officer I wanted to offer some thoughts on why he is staying at captain at this point in the narrative. I agree with most of you. During extreme times of war, prejudices tend to become less important in the wake of meritocracy. Aristocracy *hates* meritocracy even while it's members are forced to tolerate it in the interest of...you know, not being slaughtered in their beds. Someone who is probably important said that death is the great equalizer. I'd posit that the threat of death takes one of two extreme paths-- either it makes the gap between the upper classes and the lower classes unfathomably wide (think the English court abandoning London for rumors of plague while the general populace had to stay behind). Or it can create bridges to power for plebians that would not exist outside of chaos (consider the peasant born Minamoto Yorimoto, first shogun of Japan). I think most of us would agree that Roshar has followed the latter course. Certainly Alethcar has moved beyond threat of death to actual massive casualties--but it's still at the middle point where opportunities must be opened to the Third Estate in what was once a socially static world. And while that is a silver lining for the masses, the trouble is that beyond the tipping point, with too much death, opportunities also vanish – – no need for an administrative position with no one to organize. But we're not there yet, most of you know all this already, and I'm getting off track. So it's a valid question. Why doesn't Kaladin have a field commission to be a Lieutenant Colonel or above? The Important Stuff I was an Air Force captain before combat injury and medical retirement as a Wounded Warrior. Captain is the highest rank among company grade officers. This is where you have the most hands-on connections and leadership roles with your troops. When you get promoted to Lt Colonel or even General, your focus is no longer on tactics, it is now on the operational or possibly strategic fields of war-- and that job is mostly strategizing in a tent (think Mat Cauthon). Even today it is a very difficult transition for commanders to go from being company grade officers to field grade officers for this very reason. Sanderson gave us the perfect illustration of this conflict through the evolution of Dalinar's own military career. I suspect that Dalinar would like to let him stay in the position for as long as he can spare him. Every decent officer I have ever met who held a command position as a captain, wishes that they hadn't had to be promoted out of it. You are a direct leader. You take care of your troops and the buck stops with you. Promotion after that point mostly entails desk work and delegation. Are there other reasons why he isn't being promoted immediately? Almost definitely... if there weren't Sanderson wouldn't be the complex author that we love. ❤️
  43. 8 points
    Finished about an hour ago, loved the book overall. I had intended to start at the beginning but found myself downloading the ebook and jumping into the interludes at midnight last night . First time posting on the forums, but I need to get some thoughts/theories out of my head from my probably much too fast read-through: I'm kind of glad we didn't see Kaladin swear his fourth oath in OB, it gave the others some much needed time in the spot light, and it feels he would be running out of steam approaching books 4 and 5 having gone Surgebinding>Blade>Plate in the first three. Teft's oath really choked me up. The missing unmade is possibly the third bondsmith spren, perhaps providing precedence for Sja-anat's (assuming I am not mixing names) apparent defection. While Adolin's perspective as a non-radiant fighter can be refreshing, I think that it's pretty likely that he will awaken his blade at some point, even if he doesn't become a surgebinder as a result.The events of the book, along with the fact that of all the orders, the Edgedancer oaths seem extremely appropriate to the revival of a dead blade, as well as their surge being regrowth, lead me to expect it in the coming books. I wonder if humans are an intrinsic part of Rayse's method of shattering other shards, or if his arrival with them in this case was a one-off thing. I was really hoping to see Elhokar given the opportunity to become the man he wanted to be, so his death was dissapointing to me. I like the idea that the spren Wit found in the epilogue was perhaps the one he was beginning to bond. Some more Cosmere spoilery stuff:
  44. 8 points
    This is not really what the Knight Radiant are. Humans might have been the invaders, but somewhen in the past Odium shifted from a human god to a Singer/Listener god. There is no evil side when you look at present time humans and listeners/singers/parsh. That is why Kaladin finally freezes in battle and does not want to fight anymore. Both the freed parshmen and the humans living in their cities for generations have legitimate interests. Odium instigates war, his only goal is to get free of Roshar and consequently destroy as many Shards as possible. So when Odium influences one side - either humans or parsh - a war of annihilation is intended. Here the KR can and should counter the aggressors. It is possible for the KR to become helpful for both races, we already see Venli bonding a Radiant spren, a thing not possible in the past. On the other hand, Renarin has accidentally bonded a corrupted spren (Sja-anat) but he is far from hateful. Renarin is the wildcard, Odium cannot see. All in all we already see that the secret that destroyed the Knights Radiant does not have as massive an impact on the new KR as Taravangian might have hoped. Honor's changing shortly before the Recreance must also have played a part in the insecurities of the KR of old. (Tanavast seems to have lost his humanity, bending to the Intent of the Shard more and more). Honor without compassion is not a good thing, so yes, if the KR had such a compassionless god at that time and then discovered that humans were the original Voidbringers, this would lead to them abandoning their oaths. Perhaps even with the assent of their spren.
  45. 8 points
    When wax asked. "How's it taste". Wayne responded "like cotton candy made of baby"
  46. 8 points
  47. 7 points
    Hi everyone. I wanted to share a bit of fan art with you. Enjoy!
  48. 7 points
    Accept the actual canon as truth? What is this ridiculousity? Obviously you are expressing a totally valid viewpoint here (and thank-you for sharing it!). For me, the fact that Brandon has chosen a different route doesn't take away the fun of theorizing the paths not traveled, even as I enjoy the canon path. I have bolded a few points for the purpose of discussion. To be clear, I do not think there is anything wrong or incorrect about the statements, they just piqued my interest and I wanted to make the following observations: (1) Sufficient Expression of Attraction - The only thing I would add to this point is that, if he is not aware of his attraction, the attraction may be subliminal rather than explicit. Some of the passages quoted above show an appreciation of Kaladin that some are arguing implies an attraction that Adolin himself might not be aware of. If he were not aware of his same-sex attraction, then the expressions would not be explicit. (2) Feelings of Unworthiness - What if the feelings of unworthiness you identified are a reason for Adolin not to examine his sexuality? He feels unworthy, and wants to live up to his father's legacy. Many if not all of his role models are straight. Regardless of whether or not people would look down on him for being same-sex attracted, his feelings of not being worthy might make him hesitant to even examine himself in depth, preferring to focus on who he wants to be/become. (3) Stereotypes - I am of two minds on the stereotypes thing. On one hand, it is frustrating when characters from minority groups are conglomerations of stereotypes and do not feel like true individuals. On the other hand, as many (but not all) stereotypes are based in truth, portraying a gay character who is 100% not stereotypically gay also seems problematic to me. Stereotypes can be used to make harmful generalizations, but commonly held interests are part of what forms community for minority groups. I think Adolin is a wonderfully imagined three dimensional character, and so I see him being stereotypically interested in fashion (if he were gay) as realistic and relateable, rather than problematic. His interest in fashion does not define him, but as I wrote above, I think it does comment on his hyper awareness of how others perceive him, whatever the root cause. I am perhaps a little too attached to this line of reasoning, mostly because I relate to Adolin on many levels, and this is similar to my own coming out journey. I have always known, for example, that my family and friends were accepting of same-sex attracted people, and yet, I did not realize I was gay until I started meeting and spending time with other same-sex attracted people. Before that, I thought "Do I like guys? Nope!" and proceeded to date women, thinking that was the end of the matter. However, when I started spending time with other gay men, I started to realize how much I had in common with them, and it was only then that I was able to examine my sexuality on a deeper level, and come to the realization that I was, in fact, gay. So, that is a long (and potentially over-sharing) way of saying I 100% agree with this. Even if Adolin knows he would be accepted if he came out as same sex attracted, that does not mean he is aware of his own attraction to men. He may be attached--as I, in hindsight, was--to the image of a certain future involving a female partner, and likely does not have any same sex attracted friends or role-models to compare himself to. The issue could also be one of concentration. Most of our viewpoint characters are straight, and it is not clear that Shallan is aware she is Bi (I am guessing not since Brandon didn't even know). The general statistic I have heard thrown around in our world is 10% of the population or so is same-sex attracted (if I'm wrong on that, I do not think it is detrimental to my point, but feel free to correct me). If I think of my own friends, however, I would say close to 50-60% of people I regularly associate with are same sex attracted. In my workplace (which I estimate employs 80-100 people), to my knowledge I am the only gay person. The purpose of these examples is to demonstrate that the distribution of minority groups (especially invisible ones like sexual minorities) is not uniform. Like attracts like, and you will often find minority groups existing in pockets. So, if Drehy, as an out gay man, for example, was a viewpoint character, I would guess we would see a lot more same sex attracted Alethi (surely Dru wasn't the only other person, or the two of them finding each other would be rather implausible). The other issue is that there may be other characters we have seen who are same sex attracted, but their preference has not become relevant to the story yet (as was the case of Drehy prior to OB). All of this is just to say I think it is too soon to rule out that the Rosharan incidence of same sex attraction is similar to Earth's.
  49. 7 points
    That is a great compilation of moments and analysis Grey. Queering Adolin and Kaladin's relationship in this way, it makes me wonder if Brandon does not give himself enough credit about his ability to write a same-sex attracted viewpoint character. I mean, with a few changes, he basically has written what could be a same-sex relationship between viewpoint characters already, and one that would be compelling and believable. If he puts what he is doing with Adolin and Kaladin here (perhaps unintentionally) into practice when writing a canonically queer character, I think he would do very well with it, personally. On the other hand, part of me does worry that trying too hard to write a queer character viewpoint might interfere with what happened organically for Kaladin and Adolin. Usually Brandon is really good at proving worries of this type unfounded for me, but it is still a concern I carry. EDIT: As an afterthought, based on the recent moderation discussion, I did want to make it clear in case it was not already that I am speaking on my personally held views, and not those of the staff team. I feel fairly comfortable in doing this because this topic is fairly subjective, for the most part I have been speaking from personal experiences or interpretations, and it is not heated or contentious. I do note, however, that we have not had many dissenting views about the Kadolin relationship put forward. It could be this is because of the way the OP was framed, but I did want to make it clear that I am responding to this thread because I am enthusiastic about it, and not out of a desire to control the narrative. I hope people with views that contradict mine do feel comfortable posting them here, keeping in mind the spirit of the OP and the general expectations of respectful discourse.
  50. 7 points
    I'd argue that not being able to say the words is actually very important in his character arc right now. Also, we know from the Szeth scenes that, for some people, it will take many years to progress through the Ideals all the way, if they even do so.
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