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When I was reading through Oathbringer, I made notes about some of the weird stuff that was mentioned. Stuff that's probably foreshadowing. Stuff that might be foreshadowing. Stuff that just seems a bit weird. Mysterious singing, ethereal smoky shapes...you get the idea. All page references refer to the hardcover page number. Anyway, here's my list of some weird things that were mentioned and what (if anything) I think they mean. Very often I don't have a clue, or at least not a good one. If I'd a clear explanation, it probably wouldn't have qualified as a curiosity in the first place! The following are roughly in the order that they appear throughout the book. Without further ado: 1) When talking to Kaladin about his family, Syl mentions a mysterious voice: Is this a reference to Tien? They're talking about his family, so it seems plausible, but I'm not sure why she'd mention it if so. Reminding Kaladin of things that depress him isn't something she generally does. But I don't know what other voice she'd be referring to. It's also another mention of music ("a song like tapped crystal, distant yet demanding"), which might mean nothing but which, as I note below, seems to play a pretty big background role in the Stormlight Archive. 2) Urithiru is weird: I think we can agree that Urithiru probably wasn't built along strange, twisted curves in order to fool invaders. It doesn't seem like the sort of place that would be attacked by anyone ever. How would you get your army there? It's not like Odium's forces could have used the Oathgates, and they don't have all that many Fused who can fly. There's also a line earlier about how there's more air circulating than there should be, though I didn't copy that one down because at the time I chalked it up to clever engineering. The second of the two quotes above indicate that more is going on than meets the eye, though -- no amount of clever engineering would make temperatures higher at Urithiru than on other similar peaks. The weird thing, though, is that this all seems to be happening without Stormlight. Urithiru's been uninhabited for ages, and it's too high up for most highstorms. If it were ancient fabrial tech...that still takes Stormlight, right? Soulcasting does, at least. So how is the place staying warm? Something weird is going on. 3) Dalinar sees a strange shadow-world: Later on the Stormfather claims that he made this in-between place, but the description sounds familiar to me. I can't place it, but I feel like we've seen this place somewhere before. Why would the Stormfather bother to create an in-between world, anyway? 4) Something is different about the Fused's lashings: So why didn't the Fused lash Moash? They can clearly lash people, since Moash himself got lashed upwards during the fight in the same scene and Kaladin later got lashed sideways. Seems strange that they'd choose to carry him rather than lash him. It's not like they're worried about running out of power, either. Later on, we see that the flying Fused use their lashings pretty profligately. I don't have a quote, but there's a scene where one of the Fused hovers while reading a book, apparently just because he/she can. Also, the Fused in Shadesmar are flying about willy-nilly despite Investiture apparently being more difficult to get there. In fact, I don't think we've ever seen a Fused run out of juice. Something's clearly different here. 5) Lopen looks under rocks for some strange reason: Now this could just be an instance of Lopen being weird, but it's hand-waved off a little too blithely for that to be the case. Lopen might be different, but he's not the sort of different that does things for no reason. Maybe he's supposed to be humoring his spren? Syl might want to look under rocks just to see what's beneath them, so that could be it. The scene in question is a pretty touching Bridge Four moment. It seems strange to call out Lopen for behaving bizarrely unless there's some ulterior motive behind it. He's never done anything that seemingly nonsensical before. 6) Odium and his spren appear Shin: Now supposedly Odium came to Roshar along with the humans, so it's not terribly surprising if he and his look like those original humans. But if that's the case, what happened to make everyone else appear non-Shin? We know a few races interbred with the Parshendi, but that shouldn't have given a homogeneous appearance to every non-Shin person on Roshar. Again, something is strange here, either with what happened or with what we've been told. It's also worth noting that stone is clearly associated with Odium and his spren. Where Syl flies about, Odium's spren clearly walk on stone, as seen in the quote above. The Thunderclasts rise up out of stone. This might give a new interpretation to the Shin refusal to walk on stone and Szeth's belief that Urithiru was formed of stone unhallowed. Do the Shin revere/worship Odium? It seems a bit weird -- they're basically pacifists, after all -- but not entirely implausible. Still, they can't really be directly allied with Odium, either. If they were, Odium could've had all the Honorblades by the time of the battle for Thaylen city, since Shinovar isn't all that distant when one's emissaries can fly. Then again, maybe he does have them already and just didn't want to risk them in the battle? 7) Some spren are changed by Sja-Anat, some are not: What explains this? Are hungerspren more of Odium so Sja-Anat doesn't feel the need to corrupt them? Were hungerspren corrupted en masse during some previous Desolation, so that all the present-day "normal" hungerspren are actually the corrupted form of some prior version? There probably isn't enough information to tell what's going on yet, but maybe someone has ideas. 8) Hoid. Strange as always: First, Pattern says Wit feels like "one of us." It's not clear whether "one of us" means a Lightweaver, a Radiant, a Cryptic, a spren, or something else. He also plays around with Shallan's lightweaving/Stormlight in a way that (if I understand correctly) shouldn't be possible: Maybe he's just drawing it from her spheres, but considering that he needed her help to get the lightweaving going in the first place, it seems a bit strange. He's piggybacking off of her somehow. I'm not going to try to guess how, but it's worth noting, perhaps, as a thing he can do. 9) More weirdness with Shallan's lightweaving. Kaladin's shash brand doesn't stay covered up like it's supposed to: Later, Kaladin checks to see that the gem Shallan tied the illusion to still has Stormlight, and it does, so it's not like he sucked it up without realizing it. Kaladin couldn't get rid of his brand in Words of Radiance, and now Shallan can't cover it up for long, either. I get that the WoR thing is due to Stormlight healing, but that shouldn't mess with Shallan's illusion, I wouldn't think. 10) There's some weird humming/singing going around in Alethkar: First, we've got one of the revelers humming in what I take to be a manner similar to Pattern, then later we've got the queen singing a song that Kaladin almost recognizes. I'm not really sure what to make of these, but given the apparent importance of music to the Stormlight Archives so far, I think it's worth noting. 11) Syl freaks out after killing a spren: I'm not sure why she's so upset about killing a spren, honestly. She doesn't have any problem killing humans or Parshendi. She was even protecting Elhokar's baby from the red spren, so she should be happy. Maybe it's because she's a spren herself? But then, she mentions that honorspren hunt at least some types of spren, so that doesn't seem like the answer, either. Again, something doesn't quite add up here. 12) Sja-Anat mentions a son that Shallan could apparently ask for advice: So at first I thought she might have Renarin's spren, but this doesn't work because Renarin isn't even anywhere near Shallan at the time, so she certainly can't stop and ask Glys for advice on whether to use the Oathgate even if she were likely to trust a corrupted Radiant spren anyway, which seems doubtful. So who or what could Sja-Anat be referring to? It has to be someone nearby and who Shallan would find trustworthy. 13) Winespren: sometimes rare, sometimes common: I know it's mentioned that some spren are more location-dependent than others, but why is this the case? I could see it if one country tended to drink a lot more alcohol than its neighbors, but from what I can tell, people all over Roshar are drinking a lot of alcohol. So why would the winespren only hang out in just one spot? 14) Syl's memory doesn't come back at all when she returns to the Cognitive Realm: Maybe I don't quite get what's going on, but since she had to leave most of her memory behind when she left the Shadesmar, I'd have thought that she'd have gotten her memory back when she returned to Shadesmar. Instead it looks like she's going to continue getting it back piece by piece, as Kaladin progresses with his Oaths. From a meta perspective, I get that there are probably narrative reasons to keep her (and thus the main characters) in the dark for a long while yet. But it's still not what I'd expected. 15) Syl doesn't want to enter the lighthouse: This might just be that she doesn't like to be confined, which is established more explicitly later, but I wonder if there isn't something more to it. Pattern goes in and happily starts poking around, so it can't be anything that repels spren in general. 16) Chapter 103: This is Dalinar's dream/vision of Nohadon where he goes grocery shopping. It's pretty weird. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be a dream or if it's supposed to be magical. It doesn't quite seem like either one -- too coherent for a dream, but too incoherent to be a vision. 17) Odium's word versus Preservation's: Mistborn original trilogy spoilers: So anyway, that's my big list of "weird Oathbringer stuff" that might or might not be worth talking about. If there's anything I missed -- and there almost certainly is -- feel free to point it out.

While I agree with you I think Captain Kaladin has a nice ring to it. Just roles off the tongue. General Kaladin not so much. Maybe Colonel Kaladin? Radiant Kaladin sounds cool though but he still has some oaths to go before I think that title should be used officially. Anything but Brigadier Bridge Boy.. Lol BG Bridgeboy. Ok, because this is a long post, as an FYI you can probably skip everything and go straight to the Important Part below. Everything before that is mostly background. Hi! I'm back from a rather long hiatus and pleased to be rejoining you. I saw this post and having been an Air Force officer I wanted to offer some thoughts on why he is staying at captain at this point in the narrative. I agree with most of you. During extreme times of war, prejudices tend to become less important in the wake of meritocracy. Aristocracy *hates* meritocracy even while it's members are forced to tolerate it in the interest of...you know, not being slaughtered in their beds. Someone who is probably important said that death is the great equalizer. I'd posit that the threat of death takes one of two extreme paths-- either it makes the gap between the upper classes and the lower classes unfathomably wide (think the English court abandoning London for rumors of plague while the general populace had to stay behind). Or it can create bridges to power for plebians that would not exist outside of chaos (consider the peasant born Minamoto Yorimoto, first shogun of Japan). I think most of us would agree that Roshar has followed the latter course. Certainly Alethcar has moved beyond threat of death to actual massive casualties--but it's still at the middle point where opportunities must be opened to the Third Estate in what was once a socially static world. And while that is a silver lining for the masses, the trouble is that beyond the tipping point, with too much death, opportunities also vanish – – no need for an administrative position with no one to organize. But we're not there yet, most of you know all this already, and I'm getting off track. So it's a valid question. Why doesn't Kaladin have a field commission to be a Lieutenant Colonel or above? The Important Stuff I was an Air Force captain before combat injury and medical retirement as a Wounded Warrior. Captain is the highest rank among company grade officers. This is where you have the most hands-on connections and leadership roles with your troops. When you get promoted to Lt Colonel or even General, your focus is no longer on tactics, it is now on the operational or possibly strategic fields of war-- and that job is mostly strategizing in a tent (think Mat Cauthon). Even today it is a very difficult transition for commanders to go from being company grade officers to field grade officers for this very reason. Sanderson gave us the perfect illustration of this conflict through the evolution of Dalinar's own military career. I suspect that Dalinar would like to let him stay in the position for as long as he can spare him. Every decent officer I have ever met who held a command position as a captain, wishes that they hadn't had to be promoted out of it. You are a direct leader. You take care of your troops and the buck stops with you. Promotion after that point mostly entails desk work and delegation. Are there other reasons why he isn't being promoted immediately? Almost definitely... if there weren't Sanderson wouldn't be the complex author that we love.

I personally am not invested in shipping conversations. They do nothing for me, so I avoid them all together, except for the occasional off-hand thought. So I have nothing to say on that subject for how it should be handled. I am saddened that it is such a divisive subject. As for moderator participation on the boards, I'm all for that. I do not think the moderators need separate accounts for personal posts versus official posts. They are not government officials. They are unpaid volunteers doing this because they love it. Restricting their posting seems like a good way to drive them to quit, or take the fun out of this and make it actual work. I do not believe it is the way to go. Having a strict set of guidelines for how Mods enforce site rules, regardless of the offender, that I am all for, and that seems to be the direction we are leaning. The only thing I would want to ask the Mods is for them to be aware of the perception that can be associated with their posts. Not to not post, nor to change their posting habits, but just to be aware that their posts can be perceived as official position, or unconsciously given additional weight. And as a final thought for the arcanists - Directed mainly to Rshara and Calderis as they seem to be the representatives of the arcanists here in this thread. But others as well, and even Yata, who I don't think is an arcanist. I would be lying if I said I have not grumbled at my keyboard every now and then when I have carefully gathered my thoughts to present a theory or an idea, only to have it shot down and utterly destroyed by a WOB or direct page reference from one of you within 30 seconds of posting. But that frustration is almost entirely with finding out that I am wrong, not with you for showing me my error. I'd rather know I'm wrong sooner, than continue going down the wrong path for a longer period of time. So I hope you guys keep debating with us, and forgive us our frustrations if they are misplaced.

Saint Patrick's Day approaches. I've updated my profile pic accordingly.

I saw this somewhere else, but I don’t know where, so I can’t give the person credit. Now that Shallan has married Adolin, she is a Semi-Kholin.

Well here I am, I've been lurking here for quite a while now and figured it's about time I finally joined up! A little bit about me, my name is Kyle and I'm from Australia currently I've read through most of Brandon's work (Excluding the new SA book, storming rural Queensland and it's few and far between bookstores..) I'm also a competing Strongman, so that's a thing! My favorites are all in the Stormlight archive! I'm looking forward to talking to you all more in the future!

I agree with pretty much everything you pointed out here. I really love unrequited love stories, and I think this one would have some interesting twists and turns to keep it from falling into tropes. I can see the plotline of Adolin coming to terms with his sexuality and his love and respect for Shallan being a really interesting plot line to follow. I would separate, I think, his desire to be a perfect prince (which he gets away from in OB) with his desire to be perfectly masculine and live up to his father. With Evi raising Adolin and Renarin to be more sensitive and emotionally intelligent than your average Alethi male, I'm sure Adolin faced a lot of pressure to 'man up' as a child. Masculine arts, such as dueling, seem to have come easily to him, but he lacks the temperament of 'role models' like Gavilar, Sadeas, and the Blackthorn. Taking this a step further, now I am thinking about Adolin's shame over Dalinar's loss of reputation in WoK (in our scenario) would come partially from the internal pressure he feels to fit in. After trying for so long to fit in by emulating his father, watching Dalinar become the odd man out could have been really difficult for him. I agree 100% on the three way relationship not being the way to go here. I would love if Brandon explored a poly relationship at some point, but personally I do not like the idea of A-S-K being that relationship. I was referring to Adolin and Kaladin when I said Brandon has pretty much written a queer viewpoint relationship (you may have realized that but I wasn't certain from your response and wanted to make sure). On Drehy - I felt uncomfortable with the discussion of masculinity and same-sex attraction, but in the end I decided I liked it because it made me feel uncomfortable. While problematic, these conversations are ones that happen all the time in real life, and it made sense for the Bridgemen who, despite their acceptance of Drehy, might not be familiar with the views of a minority group. It definitely made me squirm in my seat reading it though, so I had to consider it really carefully and determine whether the writing was making me uncomfortable because it was forced or poorly done, or whether the situation was merely being accurately depicted as awkward. I had the same thought about a highly gendered society like Alethkar's stance on sexuality, but I think the greek comparison works well. While it seems gay men in Alethkar aren't expected to marry (at least darkeyes ones aren't - Adolin may have been expected to), as in Ancient Greece, it seems men with a sexual preference for other men are somewhat accepted so long as they continue to conform to traditionally masculine roles. What's interesting about this set up is that although couples like Drehy and Dru (or Adolin and... whoever) do not face much direct discrimination from other people, they would still be facing a great deal of systemic discrimination, in that the culture of Alethkar makes their lives more difficult because of their sexual orientation. I can totally see gay and lesbian couples facing all kinds of disadvantages because they lack someone of the other gender to fulfill certain duties and roles. I'll bet that same sex couples are sometimes treated as 'single' for some purposes (hiring a woman to read and write, as you suggested, or a man to perform physical labour, where normally one's spouse might). I also agree that a platonic relationship can be just as or more satisfying than a romantic one. In fact, I think romance is often over done in books, and that there should be more where platonic relationships are highlighted as compelling. That being said, my preference would be for greater representation of opposite sex platonic relationships and more romantic queer relationships, as things tend to skew the other way. I'm really hoping Kaladin/Shallan develop a great friendship going forward, since I feel that a good example of a man and a woman being friends with a deep and complex relationship would be really cool to read.

any spare hugs lying around? I'm in need of them. Without writing a dissertation (which is what I would need to detail the stresses and depression I'm dealing with) I'll just say monetary issues are eating me alive, most immediately regarding repairs needed after Hurricane Harvey blew through and did a number on my roof. Work's busy which is a good thing, but it's becoming overly busy because the agency I work with runs everything on a shoestring unless it's a pet project of the COO. My three kids...just too much there. Driving me nuts. I need solitude to recharge but am not getting anything like enough. I have depression exhaustion right now - the sort of depression that makes me so tired I struggle for the energy to do anything. And lots more.

Buy that sounds awesome, Navani will figure out how to re-create the Urithiru voice recording gems. Her first recording will be Jasnah singing "All the single ladies".

That is a great compilation of moments and analysis Grey. Queering Adolin and Kaladin's relationship in this way, it makes me wonder if Brandon does not give himself enough credit about his ability to write a same-sex attracted viewpoint character. I mean, with a few changes, he basically has written what could be a same-sex relationship between viewpoint characters already, and one that would be compelling and believable. If he puts what he is doing with Adolin and Kaladin here (perhaps unintentionally) into practice when writing a canonically queer character, I think he would do very well with it, personally. On the other hand, part of me does worry that trying too hard to write a queer character viewpoint might interfere with what happened organically for Kaladin and Adolin. Usually Brandon is really good at proving worries of this type unfounded for me, but it is still a concern I carry. EDIT: As an afterthought, based on the recent moderation discussion, I did want to make it clear in case it was not already that I am speaking on my personally held views, and not those of the staff team. I feel fairly comfortable in doing this because this topic is fairly subjective, for the most part I have been speaking from personal experiences or interpretations, and it is not heated or contentious. I do note, however, that we have not had many dissenting views about the Kadolin relationship put forward. It could be this is because of the way the OP was framed, but I did want to make it clear that I am responding to this thread because I am enthusiastic about it, and not out of a desire to control the narrative. I hope people with views that contradict mine do feel comfortable posting them here, keeping in mind the spirit of the OP and the general expectations of respectful discourse.

I am proud to finally join the OB discussion board! This one was just too adorable to ignore... Come on, it was such a beautiful set up Even my roommate, who knows nothing about the cosmere (yet) laughed at these two. At the end of the book, we all see:

I theorize each Shard has its own “pathway to power.” This pathway is the conduit down which a Shard’s Spiritual Realm power enters the other Realms. Each pathway is a unique medium for the transmission of magical energy between the Realms. Metal, spren, water, and electromagnetic radiation (EMR) are examples. The idea and term “pathway to power” comes from Marasi’s POV in this Bands of Mourning passage (Chapter 28, Kindle p. 359, emphasis added): Here’s how I think pathways work in my magic systems model: 1. A magic user consumes a “catalyst” to start the magic (burns metal, infuses Stormlight, dehydrates, drains “color,” etc.) 2. The catalyst activates each Shard’s pathway to Spiritual Realm power. 3. The Spiritual Realm releases power down the pathway. 4. Each magic system’s Focus shapes the pathway to choose which power is released. 5. The Focused power Invests the magic user. 6. The magic user directs the Invested power for some magical effect. Brandon says, “The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do [emphasis added].” Elsewhere he says, @Jofwu calls the “unchanging/unchangeable” aspect of a Shard its “nature.” Because power isn’t “related to the Shards,” I believe a Shard’s pathway solely causes its nature. Each pathway transmits power differently. Ruin could use the same powers as Preservation; but Ruin’s increased net entropy pathway (“decay”) directly opposes metal’s crystalline molecular pathway (“stasis”). It’s “more natural” for Ruin to steal Allomantic powers by increasing net entropy (spiking). Jofwu calls a Shard’s changeable aspect “the Vessel’s expression of the Shard.” I think the Vessel’s expression embodies Brandon’s axiom that perception guides the use of power. IMO, a Vessel’s expression decides “the WAY the magic is obtained,” “the means of getting powers”: “Ruin stealing, Preservation gifting.” Ruin, for example, could give magic users power in ways other than spiking to express entropy. Brandon may have “flavored” pathways and expressions to correlate with Adonalsium life stages, a Jordan-esque “Wheel of Life.” I’m going to try to weave each Shard into a matrix of expressions, pathways, energy transmission mechanics (each pathways’ “science”), life stages, and narrative. I list the Shards in order of their “life stage.” Lots of speculation here. Enjoy the ride! Fortune [SPECULATION] Expression: Grants Foresight Pathway: Space-Time Continuum Mechanic: Special and General Relativity Life Stage: Conception Narrative: Adonalsium conceives the Physical Realm as a space-time continuum We don’t know whether “Fortune” is a Shard, but it’s a good candidate as hinted by its name. Here’s some speculation: Space-Time in the Cosmere Fortune tells Hoid (the most accomplished seer, says Azure) where and when he needs to be, but not why. It sounds like Hoid taps into the cosmere’s space-time continuum. Brandon believes in probabilistic time: “Possibilities upon possibilities, compounded upon one another. Infinite, overwhelming. The future.” (M:SH, Part Three, Chapter 3, Kindle Locs. 1055-1056.) Since our physics and the cosmere’s are the same except for Investiture, I think space-time constitutes the Physical Realm’s fabric, the substance that permeates the Physical Realm. Except possibly for Cognitive Realm splinters, Adonalsium’s mind and soul are alone until he creates the Physical Realm. IMO, conceiving space-time must precede the Physical Realm because the Physical Realm begins linear time, something unknown in the Spiritual Realm: “Time…had no relevance here. It was not a place. Location had no relevance. Only Connection…” (M:SH, Part Three, Chapter 3, Kindle Locs. 1031-1032.) IOW, space-time doesn’t exist in the Spiritual Realm except as a Connection between a soul and its place and time. How Fortune Works? Surprised by the Diagram’s accuracy, Odium tells Taravangian, “You did this without access to Fortune, or the Spiritual Realm?” (OB, Chapter 122, Kindle p. 1215, emphasis added.) This suggests accessing Fortune is an alternate means of seeing the future, different from looking directly into the Spiritual Realm like Kelsier does in M:SH. Fortune seems to avoid the “mind-breaking” Preservation warns Kelsier about. I think Riino’s globe (the “Rii Oracle”) is an example of an “interaction with nature” magic system. “Invested” mortals like Kaladin can interact with Fortune, but they can’t direct its magic. The Oracle seems filled with Fortune’s Investiture (a “milky light” that changes colors, unlike the Ire’s “blue-white light.” (M:SH, Part 5, Chapter 2, Kindle Loc. 1356.) Touching the Oracle IMO Connects Kaladin to space-time. Through that Connection, Kaladin sees Dalinar’s future confrontation with Odium in Thaylen City. Riino later places his bartered Stormlight in “some kind of globe.” (OB, Chapter 99, Kindle p. 926.) If this “globe” is the Oracle, it’s possible Riino needs to replace Stormlight Kaladin consumes to Connect to Fortune. This makes thermodynamic sense, because you need energy to access the Spiritual Realm, even “at the beginning of the highstorm…when realms blend.” (OB, Chapter 97, Kindle pp. 910, 911.) IOW, Kaladin may have accessed Fortune by consuming a Stormlight catalyst the Oracle holds to fuel his Connection to the Spiritual Realm. The Oracle’s magic to me resembles Aviar as much as atium. Aviar warn their bonded mortals about imminent danger. The Oracle sees farther than Aviar or atium, as we might expect from Fortune. Like Aviar, the Oracle creates a Cognitive Connection with Kaladin – the Investiture seems to know he’d want to see Dalinar’s dilemma. Other Thoughts It’s unclear whether Fortune has its own Shardworld. It may be the “Shard that isn’t on a planet,” appropriate for the Shard whose pathway is space-time. Maybe black holes are Fortune’s perpendicularities? I’m curious if we’ll find mortals who can direct Fortune’s magic along its space-time pathway – starship navigators like Dune’s Guild? Fortune may make FTL space travel possible, through black holes or as a navigation guide. FWIW, Feruchemical “Fortune” and the Shard Fortune (if there is one) may not be 100% the same thing: “when they use the word ‘fortune,’ do they mean exactly what the Feruchemical – and the answer is no. But it is a very similar concept.” Endowment Expression: Grants Life Pathway: Electromagnetic Radiation (EMR) Mechanic: Quantum Mechanics Life Stage: Birth Narrative: Adonalsium creates the cosmere: “Let there be light.” Quantum mechanics describes the behavior of matter and energy at the level of atoms and subatomic particles. Photons are a quantum of light. Breaths are essentially a quantum of Investiture. Quantum mechanics metaphorically fits the “Let there be light” moment, as does Endowment’s EMR pathway. Brandon says Endowment wants to start a cosmere market for magic. She creates Breaths by, IMO, adding life to photons, the “bio” in “biochroma.” Each Breath grants more life (the Heightenings). Even non-Nalthians can hold Breaths. This portability, Breath scarcity (related to the number of native Nalthians), and the fact Breaths as quanta are Investiture’s smallest usable “unit,” make Breaths the ideal currency for Endowment’s magic market. I believe that’s why Endowment chose Nalthis to reside on. I characterize Endowment as an “angel investor.” Her investment (uncoincidentally IMO) gives birth to the magic market. Endowment “endowed” Nalthis with a nest egg that, “Invested” wisely, could generate wealth for millennia. Her name shows how she interprets her pathway. Her social endowment includes the Returned, the prophetic avatars of her divine ideals. Devotion Expression: Sustains Life Pathway: Sub-Surface Ground Mechanic: Geothermal Energy Life Stage: Newborn Narrative: Adonalsium creates planets AonDor seems particularly location-dependent even for Sel. To me, Elantris resembles a newborn who fully depends on its mother. Aon Rao infuses Elantris and Elantrians with the Dor (like mother’s milk). Once the Shaod takes them, Elantrians don’t need any other form of sustenance – Devotion “nurtures” them eternally. The broken chasm line deprives Elantrians of their ability to heal and draw Aons, but they remain immortal. Elantrians lose Aon Rao’s power amplification as they distance themselves from Elantris (and their mother’s Spirit). I associate planet formation with Devotion. After its sun, a planet’s secondary energy source is geothermal energy, left in a planet’s mantle and core when formed. (The warmth of a mother’s love?) Geothermal convection at a planet’s core causes tectonic plate movement on a planet’s surface, like what happened with the chasm. I believe Devotion and Dominion chose Sel because their pathways and mechanics suit a world that (IMO) holds Adonalsium’s inherent Investiture in its ground. Honor Expression: Makes Cognitive Connections Pathway: Neural Synapses Mechanic: Synaptic Plasticity – affects the strength of synaptic connections Life Stage: Infant Narrative: Adonalsium begins to Connect his creations into Spiritwebs Infants start to explore and Connect to the people and things in their world. Neural synapses are how the brain makes Connections. Synapses are the gaps between neurons across which the neurons electrically communicate. IMO, synapses are Honor’s pathway. “Synaptic plasticity” refers to the ability of synapses to strengthen or weaken over time in response to synaptic activity levels. Perceived Connections between people, planet and things, reinforced with use, strengthen synaptic connections. Spren enter the Physical Realm through a Cognitive bond with their host. I believe Roshar’s spren bonds attracted Honor to Roshar. Surgebinders get Honor’s magic from the Nahel bond, a form of Cognitive Connection. IMO, oaths reinforce the Connection by strengthening the synapses in the KR’s brain hooking him to his ideals (the Radiant spren). Broken oaths end the synaptic Connection, leaving a mindless spren that’s missing “a piece of [its] soul.” Dominion Expression: Sets Rules Pathway: Ground Surface Mechanic: Gravitational Potential Energy Life Stage: Toddler Narrative: Adonalsium creates the cosmere’s “unifying laws” Dominion’s form-based “programming” gives access to the Dor. IMO, these forms are 2-dimensional representations of local landscape features, an “overlap between language, location, and magic on the planet…” (AU, “The Selish System,” Kindle p. 18.) On Sel, each unique magical population culturally interprets its native landscape. I think these interpretations become Dominion’s forms. My choice of gravitational potential energy for Dominion’s mechanic may seem weird. Potential energy is stored energy that doesn’t do anything until motion turns it into kinetic energy – like a rock that begins to tumble. Gravitational potential energy depends on the relative height of different parts of the landscape. Even minor elevation differences can yield energy. On Sel, “Vast continents and sweeping oceans create a diverse landscape, with an extreme amount of variation on this one planet.” (AU, Kindle p. 17, emphasis added.) Khriss describes “powers that permeate the landscape.” (AU, Kindle p. 17.) I speculate Dominion’s landscape-based access codes unlock Sel’s gravitational potential energy. At least some Selish magic seems activated by motion: Elantrians draw, JinDo dance, and Bloodsealers and Forgers impress essence stamps. Is Forton’s potion stirred? Perhaps this motion converts the potential energy into the kinetic energy that summons the Dor? Other Shardworlds’ magic systems don’t seem to start with motion. Linking gravitational potential energy with the toddler stage seems appropriate. A sedentary infant’s potential energy becomes the mobile toddler’s very kinetic energy as they learn to resist gravity and move. As the toddler’s world expands, authority needs to set boundaries on that energy. Dominion says, “Know your land and take dominion over it before you can extract its magic.” Cultivation Expression: Transforms Pathway: Life Mechanic: Evolution Life Stage: Puberty Narrative: Adonalsium “transforms” the cosmere to create life I leave Cultivation’s “life” pathway vague. If all cosmere life existed only in the Physical Realm, her pathway might be “living cells.” But spren, seons, and skaze are alive too. I believe Cultivation’s life pathway also winds through them. I think Roshar’s spren are the pathway that brings Cultivation’s power to Roshar’s native flora and fauna, the KR, and fabrials. Stormlight activates the spren pathway to manifest the power each spren personifies (fire, wind, gravity, growth, etc.). Khriss says, “this pattern (the bonding of spren to human) is merely an expansion of what already exists in the nature of the planet.” (AU, “The Rosharan System,” Kindle p. 536.) I believe Cultivation causes this “expansion.” IMO, Radiant spren are Adonalsium spren until Cultivation transforms them. Mutation is an evolutionary process. To me, the source of a KR’s power is the Radiant spren, made from some combination of Honor's and Cultivation's Investiture. The Nahel bond’s Cognitive Connection gives the KR the ability to direct the Radiant spren’s power and enjoy power’s benefits (like self-healing). I believe Cultivation also transforms Dalinar, Taravangian, Lift, and Renarin to help them resist Odium. Dalinar recovers his memories in time to assimilate and integrate them before Odium uses those memories to assault him. Cultivation knows Odium will come to Taravangian on his "bad" days, and I suspect Taravangian’s compassion – his Connection to others – will aid him. Cultivation changes Lift so she can metabolize food into Stormlight. Cultivation (IMO) changes both Renarin and Glys so they can bond each other. Renarin's name shows his uniqueness: “Like one who was born unto himself.” (OB, Chapter 52, Kindle p. 515.) Puberty transforms a person and makes them capable of creating life. That seems the natural life stage for Cultivation’s expression and pathway. Autonomy Expression: Grants Self-Sufficiency Pathway: Water Mechanic: Fluid Mechanics Life Stage: Parenthood Narrative: Adonalsium makes a planet with (IMO) its own self-sufficient consciousness Life needs water for self-sufficiency. Like Autonomy, water easily changes form. Autonomy prefers ocean worlds like Taldain and First of the Sun. Fluid mechanics (which includes aerodynamics) seems an appropriate choice for Bavadin, whom I believe is a shape-shifting dragon. Khriss says a Sand Master’s body water forges a temporary bond between him and the sand microflora. (AU, “The Taldain System,” Kindle pp. 369-370.) This bond lets the Sand Master draw Investiture from the Spiritual Realm to control the microflora’s growth and, consequently, the sand. IOW, water is the pathway down which the Sand Master pulls power from the Spiritual Realm and pushes it into the microflora. Brandon calls Roshar a “created” world. I think Adonalsium made Roshar last. The closeness of Roshar’s Cognitive and Physical Realms suggests Adonalsium gave Roshar its own self-sufficient consciousness. Roshar may represent Adonalsium’s Planet 2.0, a child planet that will grow itself. Roshar, FWIW, is also an ocean planet. I think the Urithiru basement icon of a figure with arms out-stretched above a blue disk refers to whatever consciousness raised the Rosharan continent from the water. Autonomy later does the same when its avatar raises the Pantheon. I suspect much of Autonomy’s “assigned Investiture” is found on Roshar. Preservation Expression: Maintains Stasis Pathway: Metals Mechanic: Metal Science Life Stage: Middle Age Narrative: Adonalsium is content with the cosmere as is Metals form regular crystal structures and have the lowest entropy of the matter states – closest to stasis. Adonalsium looks at his creation (the cosmere) with middle age’s self-satisfaction. He wants to keep what he has. Odium Expression: Breaks Cognitive Connections Pathway: Neuron Death Mechanic: Nonsynaptic Plasticity – affects neurons’ intrinsic excitability; overexcited neurons can cause cell death Life Stage: Later Age Narrative: Adonalsium ages, loses Connections, and foresees his death As people age, they lose Connection with family and friends. They become less responsive and lose their affect. Perhaps the Fain causes Adonalsium’s slippage – is the Fain a Physical Realm representation of Adonalsium’s Cognitive decline? Does Adonalsium foresee the need for heirs? I believe Odium’s magic users get their power by breaking their Cognitive Connections to other people. That’s my lesson from Odium’s failed attempt to turn Dalinar. Empty of feeling – “Alone…So alone” – Odium’s magic users fill their void with power. “Passion” can break these Connections – hate blinds, as does lust, gluttony, and shame. Though not passion, irresponsibility also breaks Connections – “It’s not my fault…” I think Odium’s pathway is neuron death. One way: high neuron stimulation over time (like from passion) can overexcite and kill neurons (“excitotoxicity”). To regain their power, a returned Fused IMO must lose more neurons to break more Connections. This may explain why many Fused can’t speak and appear imbecilic – they’ve come back so often and suffered too much brain damage. Odium is the Shard murderer. He kills the Vessel’s mind, leaving the Shard’s power undirected. IMO, Odium holds “the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards” because of his neuron death pathway. Ruin Expression: Decay Pathway: Increased Entropy Mechanic: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Entropy Life Stage: Death and Decomposition Narrative: Adonalsium dies and “decomposes” – Shatters into 16 pieces of greater entropy “Hemalurgy has a huge cost, ending in net entropy,” since power is lost in attribute transfers. I think a Hemalurgical victim’s decaying blood and Feruchemical attribute conversion into Investiture are examples of Ruin’s pathway of increased entropy. Hemalurgy uses metal as a Focus, but metal is Preservation’s essence, not Ruin’s. I think Ruin uses metal because it has the lowest entropy. Other choices would lose too much power in transit. To me, it makes thematic sense the Ruin-Preservation war should oppose entropy with the cosmere’s most entropy-resistant substance. Ruin ruined Ati. It decayed his will and personality until he gave in to Ruin’s destructive impulse. In Ati more than any other Vessel, nature and expression merged. Other Shards I omit Ambition because we only know its magic inferentially. I also agree with many posters that Wisdom is a Shard, but again, we don’t know its magic. I can certainly envision Ambition and Wisdom as Adonalsium “life stages.” Ambition falls between “self-sufficiency” and middle age. Wisdom should come between middle age and Cognitive decline (or so I’m told). Other Topics I discuss these topics in the following Spoiler: Recent WoB Supports Pathways Theory Meaning of “Essence” “Catalyst” as Cosmere Word Why Non-Metal Catalysts Are Invested The Role of Catalyst in Cosmere Thermodynamics: Awakening Catalysts and Identity

Below is my case for why Kadolin (Kaladin and Adolin in case that wasn't clear) is the greatest ship of all time! (Disclaimer: I know this won't happen in the books, but I still absolutely love them together.) As an intro, I love gay romance, I read probably too many of them (bless you Kindle Unlimited), and when I finished WoR, the whole reason I found this forum in the first place was to see if anyone else had picked up on the obvious romantic vibe between Kaladin and Adolin. I mean, I may have had a bit of confirmation bias, but I think there is a lot of book evidence to support them. So, onward! Kaladin and Adolin: Would They Be in a Romantic Relationship? Although gay relationships are perceived with various levels of comfort on Roshar in general, in Vorinism such relationships are perceived as the same as heterosexual relationships, though subject to the same prohibitions about premarital sexual relations. Kaladin displays no issue with Drehy’s relationship with a man, and in general neither does anyone else in Bridge Four (although Sigzil has a level of discomfort for not having the proper paperwork.) Kaladin is described of a man of passion by many people. While we have only seen him on page have romantic feelings for a woman, he could very likely translate his passion into romantic feelings for a man. In fact, Adolin is one of the people (see below for relationship timeline) that Kaladin has felt the most passion about; half of WoR is about the strong feelings they have vis-à-vis one another. We have seen another passionate dislike (Shallan) where Kaladin’s strong negative feelings turn into romantic interest, so it is likely the same could happen with Adolin. While Adolin is often seen as an admirer of women’s physical beauty, he doesn’t seem eager to have a physically intimate relationship, and in fact we can take his “missteps” in these relationships as a way of avoiding physical intimacy; if he doesn’t let a relationship progress past the introductory stage, he won’t have to be physically intimate. His one relationship which progresses to a stage with any physical intimacy (Shallan) is a relationship where his partner is determined to make it work, even ignoring his glances at other women (a tactic Adolin has used in the past to escape early from relationships with women.) When Shallan initiates physical contact with Adolin, he is hesitant to respond to it, although eventually he does reciprocate, likely because he knows this is what is expected as him. I suspect while Adolin is not incapable of romantic feelings for a woman, he strongly would lean towards a relationship with a man. We can also take Adolin’s extreme love of fashion as a hint towards his sexual preference; though we do not want to reduce gay men to stereotypes, a love of and focus on fashion is something which in popular culture (and real life, though this obviously varies) is associated with gay men. Kadolin: The Relationship's Progression and the Literary Tropes Involved Kaladin and Adolin meet in a typical dramatic scenario, as you often see in fictional romances. Adolin and his father are surrounded by enemy soldiers and likely to die. Kaladin comes in to save the day, and in the process, aggressively tells Adolin (the battlefield commander at the time) what to do. We now have a setup where Adolin resents Kaladin’s asserting authority in such a manner (especially given Kaladin’s station, as we discuss below) but at the same time knowing that Kaladin saved his life, which sets up interpersonal tension in Adolin as well as external tension between the characters. The perfect setup to have them obsess over each other! We spend most of WoR with Adolin and Kaladin progressing through your typical “enemies to lovers” romance setup. They are involved in many cute antagonistic scenes in which they challenge each other but at the same time show a growing respect between the two. (Notable scenes include the horse riding scene which leaves Adolin in awe of Kaladin, and the dueling ground scene where Kaladin observes that Adolin is a master at the sword even though they get in a fight later.) We also get to see some physical interaction between the two (fighting). At the same time, we start to see how Kaladin and Adolin work extremely well together in difficult situations, including the attack by Szeth and most notably, the 4v1 duel. The latter is of course a huge turning point for Kadolin, as after that point we see Kaladin accepting that Adolin is pretty good for a lighteyes, and Adolin actively trying to befriend Kaladin. But that doesn’t mean their prior passion and obsession over each other should go to waste… In OB, we see a further strengthening of their bond. When Amaram is appointed highprince, Adolin’s first thought it for Kaladin. When they assemble the team for Kholinar, the number one person Kaladin wants to bring is Adolin. After Kaladin freezes in Kholinar, we see Adolin’s amazing tenderness in dealing with Kaladin’s shock and defending him to Shallan when she doubts Kaladin is up to the task in infiltrating the lighthouse; Adolin is incredibly insightful that what Kaladin needs the most is a task, and in fact we see that the task of getting to Dalinar is what helps pull Kaladin out of his depression. Before we get to a couple more literary tropes, I wanted to point out that we get a couple viewpoints at the end of OB where Adolin is a bit miffed that Shallan is acting interested in Kaladin. While you could take the obvious read here, another interpretation is that Adolin is also realizing the romantic attractiveness of Kaladin, and so these moments are a bit discomforting because he’s not sure he can deal with his own feelings for Kaladin. And these feelings then lead to him wanting to get out of the betrothal with Shallan; ostensibly he is stepping aside for Kaladin to be with Shallan, but could it really be that Adolin doesn’t want to be with Shallan because he himself is in love with Kaladin? To highlight a few more effective literary tropes, Adolin and Kaladin exemplify highborn/lowborn or prince/country girl (err boy). Adolin is the son of a highprince, literally at the top of Alethi society, whereas Kaladin is a darkeyes, the peasant class of Alethi society. As I will discuss below, this actually provides them both immense opportunities for growth, in addition to help provide some depth to the passionate conflict discussed above. Another trope which would be at play, if Kadolin came to fruition, is quirky individual reforming the playboy. Adolin is showing jumping from woman to woman, a notorious playboy with a bad reputation. Who better to reform him than our plucky darkeye who overcame horrible injustice and saved the day? Note that all of the tropes highlighted above are used in Shalladin and Shadolin, but are split between the two relationships. With Kadolin we have all these tropes combined in one! The more the merrier Kadolin: Why They Work Despite their obvious differences in social status, Kaladin and Adolin have many similarities. They are both extremely good fighters; Kaladin is presented as the best spearman in the books and Adolin as the best swordsman. They are both immensely loyal individuals who are surprised/hurt when others are disloyal to them (e.g. Jakamov for Adolin and Moash for Kaladin), because they could never imagine acting that way themselves. They are both very honest individuals, often portrayed as being too blunt, but which means they will always speak their minds to one another. Both have fathers who they deeply admire but are not sure if they can live up to; but both of them have moments when they doubt the quality of their father’s character (and Adolin may have more of this to come.) Both have younger brothers who society portrays as “weaker” than them that they want to protect, but both also know their brothers have hidden strengths which society cannot see. Both also can tend towards vengeance, while also have a strong moral compass in other respects, which will allow them to understand the other’s need for vengeance by also providing the perspective to push back on this. Kaladin and Adolin of course have many differences. The most obvious is their social standing, and in this respect they are good foils for one another with Adolin providing Kaladin an example of an honorable lighteyes and Kaladin providing Adolin with an example of a darkeyes who is every bit his equal. On a purely physical level, they are presented as opposites; Kaladin’s dark hair and dark eyes and Adolin’s light hair and light eyes are often mentioned. Their personalities mirror this dichotomy; Adolin is generally positive whereas Kaladin suffers from depression. From a metaphorical sense, Adolin’s name literally means “born into light” and that light is exactly what Kaladin needs in his life at times. Adolin is also associated with the “sun” in the books whereas Kaladin is the “storm”, an accurate summary of this light/dark dichotomy. Kaladin is also a more scholarly type with his background in surgery while Adolin is more practical, always focused on the action-items. While Kaladin can get into his own head, Adolin is better at focusing on what needs to be done. In any relationship, one of the most important things in how each person can help the other grow. I already highlighted above how Kaladin and Adolin help resolve each other’s classist prejudices. Adolin is also one of the most supportive characters in the book (and he actually is a supporting character ), and he displays this enumerable times towards Kaladin in the books, following Kaladin to jail after the 4v1 duel and being Kaladin’s main support when he’s in shock in Shadesmar are two notable instances. (I would argue Adolin’s main concern in Shadesmar is for Kaladin, which just shows the strength of his affection.) Kaladin is all too often shown supporting others, but he sorely needs support in his life as well, which Adolin can provide. Kaladin is also worried about protecting everyone, and Adolin is one of the characters we’ve seen who needs the least protection; Kaladin trusts Adolin can take care of himself! As far as how Kaladin can help Adolin, I think Kaladin’s scholarly side can help bring that out in Adolin. Because of the strict gender split on scholarship in Roshar, Adolin has been pushed by women to read their books and see scholarship from their perspective. As an action-oriented person, Adolin is more drawn to active pursuits. Kaladin can help provide Adolin a form of scholarship to which Adolin will be more inclined – taking action and relating what one has learned to real-world problems. In fact, one of Adolin’s more scholarly moments (cutting through the plateau structure at the end of WoR) is the result of this kind of melding of scholarship and action which Kaladin can help him achieve. Perhaps most instrumentally, Kaladin can help provide Adolin perspective on how the majority of Alethi live, which will help Adolin be the best ruler he can for his people (because, no matter what he wants, he is going to be a ruler.) As Kaladin has a strong sense of leadership (it is one of his order’s traits after all), he can help Adolin not lead out of duty but instead out of a desire to lead, as so far while Adolin is quite talented at leading, he has had to be pushed to take up the responsibility. Kaladin can help provide inspiration in that regard. And well, let’s be honest, Kadolin is just plain hot Conclusion Kaladin and Adolin's relationship is acceptable in-world and both would welcome/accept a romantic relationship with a man. Kadolin follows popular tropes for setting up a romantic relationship. Kaladin and Adolin have similarities which allow them to understand and support each other but enough differences to add spice to their relationship and provide each other avenues with which to grow. Kadolin is the best NB: If anyone would like citations for any of the above, I am happy to provide.

It's... tangentially stormlight. What's the last thing Scadrial needs? Mo-Ash

So with Oathbringer we get quite a bit of information about the varieties of Radiant spren, or as the Stormfather refers to them, “true spren”. Here is my attempt to organize it all: Honorspren (Windrunners) Cognitive Form: Blue-tinted. Human-looking. Physical Form: Blue-tinted. Can shapeshift into pretty much anything but main form is a tiny human, though they can grow to normal human-size. Highspren (Skybreakers) Cognitive Form: Unknown Physical Form: Warped tear in the sky, through which a black sky with stars can be seen. Ashspren (Dustbringers) Cognitive Form: Human with ash-white skin that dissolves when it moves revealing bone underneath. Physical Form: Unknown Cultivationspren (Edgedancers) Cognitive Form: Humanoid form made of vines with a face made of crystal. Physical Form: Vines that have bits of crystal jutting out from them. Mistspren (Truthwatchers) Cognitive Form: Humanoid form made of mist/fog with faces like porcelain masks. Physical Form: Looks like light reflected from a mirror. Plants made of light start to grow out of them if they remain in the same spot for a while. Cryptics/Liespren (Lightweavers) Cognitive Form: Humanoid shape with robes and a symbol for a head. Physical Form: Two-dimensional (usually) version of their head symbol. Inkspren (Elsecallers) Cognitive Form: Human with ink-black, but iridescent, skin. Physical Form: Miniature version of their Cognitive Form. Lightspren/Reachers (Willshapers) Cognitive Form: Human with metallic/brass colored skin. Physical Form: Comet-shaped Unknown (Stonewards) Cognitive Form: Humanoid with stone-like skin with cracks that shine with a molten light from within. Physical Form: Unknown. Stormfather, Nightwatcher, and the Sibling (Bondsmiths) Cognitive Form: Unknown & Unknown & Unknown Physical Form: Giant face in the Highstorm & Freaky eldritch smoke monster & Unknown The two contentious points are probably my placement of Mistspren and Lightspren. I placed Lightspren where I did because it is said that they love to travel and go new places, which reminds me of the way Willshapers are described in the epigraphs of Words of Radiance: Lightspren also have a strong association with metal. Not only do they appear to be made of metal but they also seem to communicate through metal plates installed in the ship. This would fit with Willshapers being associated with the Essence of Foil, i.e. metal. I connected the Physical and Cognitive forms of the lightspren because I believe Timbre is the daughter that the ship captain references as having run away. I had originally pegged the mistspren as being the Cognitive Form of the highspren (since they are made of mist and fog and the highspren/Skybreakers are associated with the Essence of Vapor) but when they were revealed to be a distinct species I assigned them to the only other order that didn't have a known Cognitive Form. This leaves us with very few gaps. Excluding the Bondsmith spren, the only information we are missing is: the cognitive form of the highspren, the physical forms of the ashspren and Stoneward spren, and the name of the Stoneward spren.

Hi all! I finally decided to make an account here; I've read some of the topics as a guest before but never got around to signing up until now. My favorite Sanderson series would probably be Stormlight Archive, and I love Kaladin and want him to be happy. I am excited to be a member here now even though I might not post a whole lot!

I've been thinking that maybe all of the Teris are Hoid's descendants. He's old enough. There's the seeming connection between worldsingers and worldbringers. And, most compelling, he's a feruchemist. Of course, he could gain that power some other way, but I think there's at least a chance that he's the origin of that magic system on Scadrial. It's been confirmed that at least some Feruchemy involves a manipulation of the Higgs mechanism, which sent me down this rabbit trail thinking that maybe Feruchemists control bosons, while Allomancers control fermions (Fermions are responsible for the Pauli Exclusion which in turn is responsible for observable magnetism in metals). Photons are bosons, which means there's a good chance that Lightweaving involves some sort of manipulation of the Higgs field. So . . . I'm proposing that whatever genetic potential allowed lightweaving on Yolen either evolved or was somehow mastered to become Feruchemy on Scadrial. Any thoughts??

Came here with a bad day story, but @Sunbird's awesome new hat sort of melted it away.

I'm so sorry to hear about your difficulties, Mulk. I know it probably doesn't really help, but I'll be keeping you in my thoughts and sending positive vibes. *hugs*

I see your point about how Alethi society is built around heterosexual partnerships, especially for lighteyes. And there is definitely mention in WoK (I think) about how Dalinar did not have a wife to burn him prayers or act as his scribe (he notes he misses Jasnah), plus I believe this is hinted at as being part of the reason Adolin needs to get married. That being said, we do have an excellent example in Amaram of a lighteyes who was never married to a woman, and yet that did not impede his station or reputation. (Jasnah could also be an example of this on the side of an unmarried woman, though she is a more "unique" situation than Amaram - a princess - and there is also judgment regarding her unmarried status.) So, I think if (big if) the Alethi see a man in a gay relationship as the same as an unmarried man, the idea of a gay relationship could be received without little fanfare. Where I think this really gets tricky is when you consider heirs, as Adolin is highprince. However, his character arc already sees him moving away from what his father would consider one's "duty", so perhaps not producing heirs can be part of that. Personally, I would find the idea that being the only objection Alethi society would have to Adolin dating/marrying a man (a shrug besides the heir issue) to be interesting in and of itself. This is a fantastic take on Adolin's reactions in WoK, which I think carries through to the loss of his highborn friendships in WoR. It actually follows rather naturally that he has these false friendships where he has had to "play" a part in order to fit in (and note, his social activities with these friends were partially centered around taking girls on dates, so his courting can be seen as part of that role of fitting in), and once these relationships keeping him on the (literal) straight and narrow start to fall away - his closest friend now is a darkeyes after all, Radiant or not - he can slowly start peeling back the layers to his true self. His abdicating his duty as king (something I've been very ambivalent about as a positive thing in general) could be seen as part of that general move towards being more "himself" and less who he thinks he should be. Yep, I got it, I just skipped over joining that to Drehy as the gay character we've seen in SA I really like your take on these things. I tend to get uncomfortable, and it makes me switch off my brain a little bit. I have a very kneejerk reaction to these sort of discussions IRL too, which isn't always... the most productive way to get a point across. Ahhhh, so bad for me! Need to temper my feelings that this is viable...

This is all...

“I need you to stay behind as we go into those slums,” Wayne said, determined to impress solemnity into his voice. “It’s not that I don’t want your help. I do. It’s just going to be too dangerous for you. You need to stay where I know you’re safe. No arguments. I’m sorry.” “Wayne,” Wax said, walking past. “Stop talking to your hat and get over here.”

Uhhh if I say what book that's a spoiler too. So...other-cosmere-book spoiler?

Mainly been Cognitive Shadows. The part which I highlighted is the main question mark. They are immortal or at least have been around for 4500 looking identical, so for all we know all of them could be "frozen in the state they were in when they swore the Oathpact". Of course all the Heralds which we have seen in SA so far would be in the running for worst parents ever, but that just seems to happen everywhere in Roshar.

I think that is what I wouldn't like about a romantic relationship between Adolin and Kaladin. It is just so overly used in fantasy for the friends to become romantically involved. In the real world we have all fallen for a friend it happens and I get why authors use it but I read books to escape the real world. Plus lets be real how often does that work out? I also 100% agree with you that there should be more opposite sex platonic relationships and I'd be open to more same sex relationships. I respect Brandon for his stance that he does not feel comfortable writing a gay main character but I think he is selling his self short a little. He's done a good job with addicts and suffers of PTSD both of which I am pretty sure he does not have personal experience with. I think he would do fine with this characterization as well. Edit to add: You guys have all now convinced me Adolin is gay btw.

Understand completely. I'm curious about the answer, because if it does work counter to our thinking, I'd really like to know why.

Oh, yes. I apparently missed that portion of the question completely. I believe that the Bands were primarily nicrosil, and that the other metals were there for stores of the other powers. But the nicrosil was just one huge metalmind with partitions for all 32 powers stored. While I suppose it is possible that one type of storage could lock the metalmind in to that type, I find that unlikely. If investiture locked in the metalmind it seems like it should do that between individuals as well, but I could easily be wrong there. I personally think that Sazed for example, used separate tin minds more to avoid confusion than from necessity.

So I was torn between trying to post some big theory or this, and this won out easily. 5000 posts. Just about a year of (really heavy) activity. It's been a journey and I want to thank everyone for how much fun this past year has been. My life is very very different then it was a year ago and I feel more a part of this community then I ever have anywhere. Thank you @Extesianfor the early exploration into theorizing and WoB hunting. Thanks you @Steeldancer (who I still think of as The Flash most of the time) and StrikerEZ for being so enthusiastic in just about everything you take part in. Thank you The One Who Connects (who I still can't tag) for surprising me constantly over the past year with obscure WoBs. Thank you @Oversleep for your rigor and knowledge (you also belong in this next part). Thank you @Spoolofwhool, @Yata, @Kurkistan, @Argent, and so many others for the theories I read during my two years of lurking that made me feel like this was truly a place of knowledge and participation that I couldn't break away from. And thank you @Chaos, @Mestiv And all the other staff that works so hard to make this place as wonderful and welcoming as it is. It's been a great year, and I look forward to another exploring this fantastic world with all of you.

Really great points being made in this thread. Great job outlining this @Dreamstorm ! Honestly I could easily see this even if it is unlikely. Not only have some amazing points and observations been made in this thread but I also think it would be a refreshing change. That being said it kills one of the best relationships in SA for me. Their relationship for me started in the 4 vs 1 duel. Adolin's display of solidarity going to prison for Kaladin was amazing. Their friendship blossomed further in OB. When Adolin was willing to step aside for Kaladin that to me was the epitome of respect and friendship. I like the purity of their friendship and would hate to see a messy romance get in the way. Sometimes a true friendship is just as satisfying as a romantic one and I feel like this is the case with Adolin and Kaladin.

@Calderis I've kinda slid back into lurking, in part because every time I think I have something to say or a good response, you've already made it I do have to say the the night you and I and...I think it was R'Shara (but could be wrong - my memory has been wonky since my concussion last fall) were sharing/commiserating and more on autistic children was wonderfully freeing for me. It's a hard space to be in and sometimes I just kinda have to know I'm not in it alone, you know? Cheers, good sir, and since I am a minister, prayers as well. The site content is good. Who you are, I'd venture to say, is better. It's good to know you, even at a distance. It's one of the most amazing parts of the internet, imo.

Dbec sat in his daylight hideout. He had only told one skaa where it was, so they could come and tell him if there were Allomancers or angry Mobs coming. It was supposed to be even safer from the house; with the knowledge he had given the skaa, they would not betray him. They would be more loyal than any other group. The angry mob of nobles stood in the street, trying to follow the confusing map a skaa had given them. It had strange letters on it, which they assumed pointed out street names in some phonetic approximation of the Steel Alphabet. They went through one alley, finally finding a door. Going through it, they found Dbec. Leaflets were scattered in the street the next day, advertising positions in House Heatherlocke. Being written in that strange phonetic letter set, no one could understand it. It was just a joke among the few skaa, who escaped Luthadel to become scholars.” Walin was Lynched! Give him upvotes for writing his own death scene for us. Walin (2): Fifth Scholar, Jondesu Orlok (1): Sart Shanerockes (1): Steeldancer The night will end in Player List

Bk 6. I think it is so far the single longest chapter of the series. It was 80+ pgs long.

Why do Bondsmith and Stonewards not get along? Too much Tension between them.

Been really stepping my game up this past 2 weeks surprisingly even with watching 8-9 hrs a day Olympic coverage in my excitement to finish RG and get to my 3rd attempt of Return which will be successful this time. On page 555. Past few days have been so balling bringing back info.

There is one major every day item no other planet has iirc, that Scadrial can export to Shadesmar in TFE time. An essential item for any long term settlement in the cognitive: canned food. Everyone needs to eat and drink!

Oh, hell yeah, this is excellent. Been shipping it since day one! Psyched to see this thread! Please indulge me, I'm very excited and I want to talk about it - I'm gonna keep it to Oathbringer because I don't have my notes on Kadolin handy from WoK and WoR anymore, but I can dig them out later maybe. It's okay, because Oathbringer had a lot of good stuff between them! You might even say, the best. The only thing I wanna particularly talk about from WoR is the scenes between Kaladin and Adolin after they get out of prison together; when Kaladin realizes what Adolin has done for him, and when Adolin tries to give Kaladin the Shards. This is the single biggest event in their relationship that changed everything for Kaladin, and it followed directly from the results of the arena fight, which changed everything for Adolin. - Up until then, their relationship had been contentious. Neither of them liked or trusted each other very much, but they held onto the minimum amount of civility for Dalinar's sake. Adolin loves his dad and obeyed because of Dalinar's trust, though he himself wasn't sure of Kaladin; Kaladin found Dalinar the only lighteyes worthy of his trust and took Adolin's presence as part of the package deal. (Buy one Kholin, get em all!) - Adolin, great judge of character, is also suspicious because he can tell something's not right about Kaladin. He is 100% correct. - Then, something happens. Adolin is tricked by Sadeas in the duel. Four-on-one. Kaladin does something neither he or Adolin expects and puts his life on the line to fight with him. Adolin still knows Kaladin's hiding something, but is in this one moment, totally and completely assured of Kaladin's good character. You will note after the duel, Adolin's behaviour towards Kaladin is now 100% amiable and happy, eager to make friends. In prison, in that dark place, betrayed by even Dalinar, Kaladin comes out to find that one person has believed and supported him - Adolin. But something is very scary - in almost a complete and total reflection of what happened with Amaram, here is a very high-ranked lighteyes offering him Shards in the same room as his much-beloved squad. When Kaladin refused the Shard with Amaram, his men were slaughtered and he was sold into slavery. Kaladin refuses Adolin, absolutely terrified of what could happen. And Adolin is confused, "baffled" it says - confirms that Kaladin really means it, but accepts it! Totally accepts it! Of course he'll let Kaladin do what he wants with the Shards he's gifted him, though he wants to pay back Kaladin for all he's done. Raise Kaladin's status, make him a lighteyes, and bestow a huge honor so that what happened in the arena where Kaladin was betrayed to prison could never happen again. This is when Kaladin realizes that he can trust Adolin - where everyone else, even Dalinar let him down, Adolin pays back Kaladin's honor with his. For the rest of WoR, Kaladin is still ambivalent about Adolin sometimes, but is clearly wavering between his earlier feelings of "who's this rich lighteyed jerk" and his experience of Adolin being honorable towards him. --- Now, Oathbringer was huge for them! Kaladin's ambivalent feelings about Adolin start to fade - in my mind, it's hard to experience Adolin's extremely earnest attempt to be friends without responding in some way. They've never been more friendly than in OB. The way they think about each other in OB is unprecedented between them, and I thrilled every time I read it, as it's such a huge dynamic change from how it was when they first met. Adolin is the most overt. Every time he describes Kaladin in Oathbringer, he's full to bursting with admiration and more than a little hero worship. Every way he describes Kaladin, much more than any other character does. Adolin notices when Kaladin does something cool, when the wind sweeps his hair, how cool he looks when Kaladin is using Stormlight for Radiant powers. He likes Kaladin and thinks he's cool. It's a fact. These are Adolin's own words. Holy crow, guys. Kaladin's POV has takes on Adolin which I would never have ever seen him say about Adolin. The absolute turnabout of Kaladin's feelings about Adolin are, I think, best represented by his internal dialogue when they're in Kholinar, although I think there's a lot in OB as Dreamstorm pointed out in the op. A small collection above. Kaladin's feelings especially have made the most dramatic change from where they started. Where was once out and out contempt for Adolin, Kaladin now respects him, trusts him, thinks of him as a friend, and likes him. I kept it short just because I think it's a bit long already, but Kaladin and Adolin's relationship has undergone such an incredible growth throughout the series, and I cannot wait to see what happens after this.

Thanks for all the positive feedback! @WhiteLeeopard and @Carla Bridge Four, those were both great moments, and good additions to the ship! My own personal favorite little scene between the two (well, personal favorite at the moment) is when Adolin gives Kaladin the Bridge Four salute before they split up again in the Kholinar Palace battle. Such an adorable moment between the two with so much symbolism for how their relationship has grown and development. (And I don't like to think about it in context with any of the Moash salute symbolism, because opposite feelings there...) I wonder this too! Brandon's said before in response to a question that he unintentionally made Shallan bi, but for me, the indicators of Shallan being attracted to Jasnah are much more subtle (and easier to have included unintentionally) than those of Adolin being attracted to Kaladin. Given the feedback on how people read Shallan as bisexual, it is interesting that he created such a strong arguably romantic interest by Adolin in Kaladin. (I agree with your husband that I realistically read Kaladin as straight.) This is great. The fashion thing is something which has always bothered me (if Adolin somehow turns out to actually be gay), but this perspective really helps alleviate that concern. (And now you took away my one reason I didn't want Kadolin to happen in canon ) Much my same thought process. When I first started googling around to see if I was the only one who saw Adolin as gay, I came across a Brandon tweet where he said Drehy is gay and thought, aha, that will be Adolin's path for discovering himself! (Not that Adolin would date Drehy, but that a friendship which arose with Drehy after the Battle of Narak would provide Adolin a new perspective on his own sexuality.) But then I came across WoB about no gay main viewpoint characters, which seems to exclude Adolin We did get the Drehy friendship though, so some hope...?

"Whenever I'm thinkin' my life is miserable, I remember him, and tell myself, 'Well, Wayne. At least you ain't a broke, d*#kless feller what can't even pick his nose properly.' And I feels better."

Wax: "You're right of course" Wayne: "Usually am" "Except that one time at Lessie's bithday" You always have to bring that up, don't you? Honest mistake. You put dynamite in the oven, Wayne Gotta hide a gift where nobody will look for it. -Shadows of Self ch 17

Here you go:

A few of my favorites:

this one defiantly, also I'm writing this from memory so I might not have it exact.

This is just the one that popped up intocmy head. there's just too many of them, and they're all great!

Our real-life gender roles and traditions have very little to do with "women being considered intellectually inferior." (To be sure, it is a cause, but not the only cause) What do clothing norms, behavior expectations, anatomical acceptableness (toplessness, soles of feet, middle finger) have to do with intelligence. I, for one, think that this is a masterful way of sidestepping biases and getting people to look at these things in a new light. They see all of these bizarre social norms in Roshar, and think "that's silly." Then, maybe, they start to tie it to our world and start to wonder, "why do we think girls can't do math?" or "why is it unmasculine to cry?" This is a great question, and one that we should be asking about our world.

Wow, this thread is hot. I have been composing a post since I got home today and have not been able to keep up. To start off (and at the risk of being so meta as to moderate a thread about thread moderation) I would like to remind everyone that the focus of this thread is recognizing and responding to concerns about site moderation. Concerns about individual members who are not staff can be addressed through private discussions if the members are comfortable, or through the usual PM/Report process with staff that we are currently discussing. I understand that people got on to this subject organically, but think there are better ways to resolve issues with personal behavior than here. Now on to the subject of the thread. Thank-you everyone for the time and effort that has been put into these posts, and for taking the plunge to bring these criticisms to light. I know that some of this conversation has been uncomfortable and frustrating, but I think that only highlights how necessary it is, and thank people for being vulnerable here. I think it’s really cool and all of these posts have made me feel very lucky to be a part of this community, even though I do not post much. In the interests of moving this discussion forward I thought I would take a brief moment to summarize some of the key points. I will be omitting items I feel like have been sufficiently discussed/dealt with and will be focusing on the discussion going forward, but that should not be the end of things, and discussions I would love for points not in this summary to continue to be discussed. Please note that my intent is as stated: to summarize, and so if I leave your point out it is not an intentional move on my part to discourage you to continue to raise it. Please feel free to highlight any important omissions. One of the breakdowns in communication I’ve been witnessing is the ever tricky distinction between explanations and excuses. Party A offers concern. Party B feels they need to explain where they are coming from to give context and offers explanation. Party A then feels like their concern is not heard and that Party B is offering excuses. In what I hope is a helpful way, I’ve tried to highlight concerns raised by members, explanations offered by staff, and suggestions for further discussion. To be clear, the explanations are not meant to excuse staff conduct or to dismiss concerns, but to provide context. My hope is that, in light of context, our suggested steps forward can help address those concerns which up until now have been felt to be unheard. Shardcast Concern - The panel failed to provide adequate coverage and support for the positives of Kaladin and Shallan’s romantic pairing and adequate critique of Adolin and Shallan’s relationship, leading to supporters of Kaladin and Shallan feeling like the ‘official Shard view” was against them and that their voice was less legitimate. Context/Explanation - Some may have noticed, but in order to provide more regular content, we are shaking things up by rotating through different casters based on availability and interest. The ASK Shardcast was my first one, and I did a lot of outlining on it, so flaws are probably my fault and I take full responsibility. As Chaos said, the fact that the panel was biased came about because of a mixture of who was interested and who was available. I think as a group we did not recognize how much strong discourse on all sides was needed for this discussion. The circumstances surrounding the creation of the cast is definitely not an excuse. I know we all appreciate the opportunity to make the content we are providing better, so thank-you for the feedback. Points For Further Discussion - In the future, we need to do better than just identifying bias when discussing divisive issue like this one. We as content providers obviously failed to recognize the importance of this debate for our audience, and in the future we should make efforts to make sure differing views are better represented on contentious issues. Note - One small aside: @insert_anagram_here , I wanted to offer a personal apology to you. In an effort to add some substance to our discussion of Kaladin and Shallan’s relationship, I quoted your post from the thread. I thought the points you raised were really interesting and thought-provoking, and was hoping to use them to provide some support for the Kaladin and Shallan pairing. I hindsight, I realize that having your words used, and then remarked upon, without an opportunity to immediately respond, would have been very frustrating, and I’m sorry I put you through that, especially without consulting you first. Closing ASK Thread Concern - Closing the ASK Thread (a) sent a message that certain opinions and interests were not welcome on the shard and (b) destroyed a space that a subset of the larger fan community used as their primary place for communicating. Context/Explanation - As others have stated, this was not intended to have the effect that it did. We as a staff deliberated extensively for a long period of time on what to do about this thread and the large volume of reports that were generated as a result of it. In the end, our concern over members who said things about the thread made them feel unsafe or that it made them feel the Shard was ‘toxic,’ as well as the burgeoning of a too-busy thread with too many topics for really productive discussion were the contributing factors in our choice to close it. While we came to a decision, the group was very much divided, and it was not easy for any of us. Dealing with conflict is tough, and every staff who has posted thus far has admitted this one could have gone better. We are definitely committed to improving how we handle similar issues in the future. Points for Further Discussion - We have talked a little about options for keeping quality character discussions going (character subforums / topic specific threads), and I hope that conversation continues, but from my read of things the point that has not been addressed is how the ASK became an important community space, and that (if I’m understanding correctly) members feel displaced now that it is closed. I understand that opening new threads will not necessarily assist in the community concern, so I’m curious about what the users who were/are members of the ‘ASK Community’ for lack of a better term feel would be a suitable replacement/solution? Subcultures and new relationships are an exciting part of forum communities, and are absolutely something the staff want to facilitate. One thought I had was using the “Social Groups, Clans, And Guilds” sub forum to continue the community aspect of the ASK thread, and then allow discussions to continue in more specific topics (the more character topics the better in my opinion!), but since I was not a member of the community, that suggestion is obviously only as good as the endorsements it receives so I’d like to hear what people have to say. Moderation Practices Generally Concerns - From reading this thread, my understanding is that the two major concerns being raised about moderation practices generally are (a) that the Staff is heavy handed when moderating certain less familiar members, and unfairly lax or informal with older users and friends, and (b) that Staff opinions in regular discussions receive preferential treatment (either through excessive moderation of opposing views, or through discouraging debate through sheer force of reputation). Explanation/Context - Previous posters have done a pretty good job of providing their opinions and background information on this one, and since it is fairly person specific, I will try to do my best to pull out general points. Generally, silencing debate has never been the intent of the staff. However, that does not mean that certain actions we take do not unintentionally give that impression, so I am glad that members had the courage to raise the issue and generate discussion. I think we as staff take a lot of pride in what we do here, and so it is difficult not to take critiques of this kind personally. Critiquing the job we are doing as moderators, for better or worse, is personal for us. The best we can do is deal with the discomfort, communicate our emotions in positive or useful ways, and try to come up with effective solutions. We should focus on those that try to limit character discussion by others, rather than those that were trying to discuss characters, got offended and reacted badly. In too many cases we dealt the results and not cause of problems. One the point of further moderation - we already do a great deal of moderation that likely isn’t noticed because, for better or worse, we do it privately. There is always room to improve. It is also important to acknowledge that we are only human and we only have so much time in a day. We are not omniscient and omnipresent, and we cannot micromanage every aspect of the forums. Reports are a way of directing our attention to areas that need it. If you have other suggestions for how we can make it easier to report or to PM staff, please let us know. We do strive to being active with our moderation, but we can only do so much (I know this is getting excuse-ish, but my intention is just to recognize the reality). It is important to remember that as a staff we have a responsibility to the entire community. That means engaging in a balancing act when interests of different segments of the community come into conflict. We are always open to discuss new and better ways to handle things, but things must continued to be balanced and handled. As part of their participation in a wider community, it is important that members accept that things might not always be done to their liking. It is equally important that we as staff strive to make sure people feel heard and acknowledged, even when their suggestions or desires are not acted upon in the way they wished. Points for Further Discussion - We need to find balance between public scolding and dealing with people via PM. Some public guidelines about it would be nice. Public statements about conduct are useful for educating the community on standards, and to be transparent, but we all agree they should be handled with care. Not mentioning names in public warnings is a good idea that we can work with. Staff have always and will continue to be careful about how we present ourselves and the words we choose. We acknowledge and recognize that we do not always meet this standard, but I want to assure you guys that this is definitely a standard we hold ourselves to. Staff members participating in regular discussions need to be aware, that their staff badge acts as a megaphone. Everything they write is just “louder” than what others say. _______________ This discussion is going to be difficult no matter how we deal with it, but I do think it is a useful conversation and hope it continues. By virtue of our power and position, I understand that members are going to be intimidated to bring this kind of critique forward. From the staff perspective, answering these critiques is going to require us to be vulnerable and acknowledge some shortcomings that are uncomfortable. I do not have specific points for this discussion, but I would just like to encourage everyone to remember that we are all here out of a mutual desire to talk about Brandon’s books, that we are all human, and that wrongness can be identified and addressed with kindness. With the goal of finding a resolution that people can live with, we are, hopefully, all on the same side. I know a lot of staff have already weighed in on this, so I hope that the usefulness at this post will outweigh the negative impact of me adding yet another staff voice. To conclude, continuing to point out problems or issues is useful to a point, but it can also get in the way of resolution and outcomes. I hope that was helpful and not a total waste of text. Thank you again to everyone who is participating, and please remember to try to focus on what we can do to resolve the issues.

Nightblood, Others,

if anyone's having a bad day i hope this picture of an aplomado falcon cheers u up