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  1. AG4/AN1 - Day 9: Uniter Divided; Dividers Unite Not long ago... Nolan traced his hands over the inscription at the front of his book. “Life before death,” he murmured softly. “Strength before weakness, journey before destination...” His thoughts meandered into meanings and contexts, and for a few minutes he entirely failed to notice that the sphere he was holding to illuminate his work had gone dun. He stared at it. The highstorm hadn’t been so long ago that it should be dun already. “How...?” He pulled another sphere from his pocket, but it was dun, too. And all the others in his pocket. Um... This was in the book. Nolan knew what was happening, it just... couldn’t be. He went to check his pouch, which was hanging by the door. Still bright. Almost fearfully, he drew out a sphere and closed his eyes. What had the book said. Breathe. Nolan breathed, and he became alive. He laughed for hours and hours, later, interspersed with furious rereading. After all this time, he was a Knight Radiant! The very people he had been trying to study, and he could have firsthand experience with them. What’s it called when you’re the source of your own scholarship? he wondered idly. Is it a primary source or a.. zeroth... source? He had so many experiments to do. He heard cries from outside. Another kill discovered. Perhaps he could even use his power to help, to find these storming murderers and rid the village of them once and for all. Tonight... Nolan stood warily across from the murderers, who had chased him down and separated him from the group. He inhaled Stormlight, hoping it would help, somehow. I’m a scholar, not a soldier! he thought. How am I supposed to defeat trained, blooded warriors? Why did the Almighty ever put me into this? I just want to study... But it seemed that the Almighty had a different fate in mind for him. He had been made a Bondsmith, and told to unite. He had failed. Nolan closed his eyes for a brief moment, prayed, and charged. He wished his battle cry could have been something noble - “Life before death,” or “All praise the Almighty,” or even “Scholarship!” Instead, it was a sort of buzzing, wavery “AAAaaaAAAaargh!” Two weeks of studying Stormlight couldn’t do much against murderers with weapons and the training to use them. Nolan was chopped into at least five separate pieces before he touched a single one of them. The glow surrounding him winked out, and only darkness remained. Ivory Dragonfly was killed. They were a Village Bondsmith. Day 9 has begun. It will end in 42 hours, at 10pm GMT on the 9th February. Player List 1. Amethyst Scorpion 2. Azure Mouse 3. Amber Vulture - Villager 4. Charcoal Hyena - Cannoc - Villager 5. Chartreuse Penguin - Villager 6. Coral Swan - Elyle - Village Lightweaver 7. Cream Tuatara - Villager 8. Emerald Falcon - Aldrick - Villager 9. Fuschia Ostrich 10. Indigo Weasel - Village Elsecaller 11. Ivory Dragonfly - Nolan - Village Bondsmith 12. Magenta Albatross 13. Mauve Crocodile 14. Melon Dingo - Quentisan - Village Edgedancer 15. Mint Heron 16. Onyx Flamingo - Squawk - Village Lightweaver 17. Opal Lion - Villager 18. Oxblood Beagle - Jai - Village Willshaper 19. Pearl Chameleon 20. Plum Rhinoceros - Villager 21. Quartz Zebra 22. Saffron Iguana - Emalia - Village Lightweaver 23. Sage Kangaroo 24. Salmon Meerkat - Village Bondsmith 25. Sapphire Elephant 26. Scarlet Octopus - Village Edgedancer 27. Sunburst Toucan - Vanna 28. Taupe Gecko - Villager 29. Turquoise Gorilla - Village Dustbringer 30. Violet Axolotl - Villager
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  2. "You can't leave." stated the mob. Rose-Mary Tyler paused, looked at the crowd of soldiers, turned back around, and started walking faster. Mr. Klenien put his arm on her her shoulder. "I said, 'You can't leave'" She pushed him off, and broke into a run. "She's getting away!" shouted Mya. The crowd rushed after the quiet woman, blocking her escape. Rose tripped, falling into the dirt. "Why don't you say something? We're trying to find out who the traitors are, and you're just standing there! You're one of them, aren't you?" Rose was trying to say something, anything, to get out of this situation. Her tongue refused to work, so she tried ducking between one of the soldier's legs. Caccoo grabbed her before she could escape. It was all the town needed to convince them of Rose's guilt. Lenny couldn't watch. It was all too much for him. He had never been the brightest man around. How was he supposed to find Forgotten? It wasn't fair. It didn't make any sense. It was starting to rain now. It might wash away the blood, but the stains would remain. There was nothing left. There was only a variety of bribes. He looked at a particularly good bottle of wine. He could take it if he wanted too. It would be better if he was drunk. Sadly, he wouldn't even get that luxury. And as the rain turned into a storm, his blood mixed with the puddles. Vote Count: Budgie (5): Caesura, Devotary of Spontaneity, Orlok, Brightness Radiant, Elenion Elenion (2): Kynedath, Monster Metroid Devotary of Spontaneity (1): Steeldancer A Budgie was lynched. They were a Soldier. Living Legend was killed. He was a Soldier. Items Taken: Camp Supply: Player List: The cycle will end on Saturday, February 10th at 7PM Eastern Time.
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  3. Hello All, I come from a massive online history. I love Brandon Sanderson and it would seem that there is a forum for, the massive expanded universe. Do you do RP here?
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  4. Long time leader first theory post I have a theory about the origin of the unmade and the heralds. I think he unmade we're humans at one point "unmade" into powerful evil Spre when the midnight mother is defeated shallan get the impression she was trying to understand something she lost. In symmetry I believe the Heralds may have been Spren "Made" human which is why they are so dedicated to their ideals. Just a gut feeling
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  5. My favorite book in the series so far and maybe my favorite book ever read, answers so much, has the absolute best climax and is breath-takingly well paced despite its length. I've never felt such awe reading a book as I did during the I AM UNITY moment, I seriously considered it possible he'd turn bad. When Evi forgives him I legit teared up. How can I possibly wait for more?
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  6. Hello folks! There's a small chance some of the oldtimers here might have run into me before on the old Time Waster's Guide website. I was known there variously as Brian, Atruen, and perhaps a few other, less savory things. Mainly I just wanted to give a shout out just in case St. Ehlers, Spriggan, or any of the other old Timewasters (including EUOL himself) happen to remember me. But since I'm here, I may as well stick around and get to know a few of you newer folks! Well met, y'all. Brian Lacy
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  7. I feel the middle ground is pretty vacant at the moment: most readers invested within this discussion are intend on proving how negative the Adolin/Shallan marriage is. I have yet to see readers put the same amount of effort to... prove the opposite, hence the middle ground seems very lonely these days. As an Adolin fan, I have been rooting for an Adolin centrist arc ever since WoR finished. The little arc surrounding Maya, towards the end of OB, was not enough. It however is interesting and is exactly the kind of arc which could pan out into something more meaty within book 4, shall the author wish it. Unfortunately, Brandon's intentions towards Adolin's character are near impossible to decipher: it always seemed to me he isn't agreeing with myself over what makes up for an interesting narrative for him. Thanks. I find it hard to post contradicting views because they are often met with strong opposition and little support. It isn't so much I wish for others to change their minds, but as I said above, there hasn't been a lot of readers coming forth to defend the Adolin/Shallan union. I have seen readers voice out their concerns on how Brandon has made the romance be one-sided. I have seen the posts where readers are complaining, within this thread, over the lack of thought process on Adolin's part, when it comes down to it. It has often been interpreted as him not really caring about Shallan: my thoughts are different. I believe we aren't getting more from Adolin because most of his viewpoints have another purpose. In other words, within Brandon's mind, the romance is written solely from the Shallan angle. Readers have noted, ever before the release of OB, how Brandon has not seen fit to write one date from Adolin's perspective apart from this very short snippet within WoR. OB didn't offer anything different as, still, all of the intimate Adolin/Shallan scenes were written within her perspective and not him. Hence it isn't surprising we aren't really reading it: it isn't in the book. Now why did Brandon thought it served the narrative better to make the romance arc be one-sided, I honestly cannot say. I am baffled this is how he planned it. As for how Adolin can go from breaking up to marriage: this works for me. Adolin is notorious for ruining his courtships. A WoB told us he did mostly out of not feeling he was good enough. OB certainly highlighted how unworthy Adolin thinks he is, how lesser compared to everyone else he feels he is: while he is able to appreciate his own talents, he keeps on thinking they are... not enough. Hence, upon seeing Shallan and Kaladin glow together, it wasn't long he started to believe Kaladin would make the better match. Even if he does love Shallan, he has no intentions to fight for her because, in his mind, he already lost. This is the one battle Adolin never won: the battle of worth. He can step into the arena, beat his foes, be a grand duelist, take command without even realizing he is doing it, but he could never make Dalinar proud, not until it was too late. My perspective is thus, when he breaks up with Shallan, he does not really want to break it up: he only does it because he sincerely believes Kaladin is the better man while thinking Shallan loves him more. He wants to do the right thing which is allowing Shallan to make her choice, removing the obligation to marry him, giving her the freedom to choose, without any ties. He however does love her, so when she chooses him, well, he's happy. I also took note how surprised he sounded upon hearing Shallan lists the things she loves about Adolin: he really never thought he was enough. He voices out his concerns later on, but Shallan insisted it didn't matter if he weren't a Radiant. Adolin's thought process remain, IMHO, consistent with themselves. He has fears, a given lack of self-confidence, perhaps some lack of self-esteem, but the narrative is never strong enough to push him over the edge. As such, with a bit of encouragement, he moves past it, refuses to be the king and marries Shallan. Where Brandon will go from there? Well, it could go down many very interesting paths or he could reinforced Adolin as the one stable character. I find the later would be a waste.
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  8. ... or something else poetic™. Hey I'm Alex and I have read almost all of Oathbringer, after starting the Way of Kings only a month and a half ago or so. Decided to join the forums as I start to work through more of Branderson's works! How is everybody?
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  9. Hi all, just saw this video Mary Robinette Kowal posted on a subject from one of her writing workshops. Lots of really good advice for both writers and people critiquing (i.e. this group).
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  10. Welcome to the Shard! You might want to check out Arcanum, as Brandon has answered a LOT of our questions, and crushed many a theory. The Unmade are Splinters of Odium (Splinters being part of his power deliberately separated from him and shaped to do specific things). So they were not ever human. Heralds are humans who went to Honor and proposed the Oathpact to keep the Fused from terrorizing Roshar. The Stormfather drops a few nuggest of info in Oathbringer.
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  11. Well, probably because Dalinar's older brother was part of at least one (religious) secret society, and Wit thought Gavilar would have involved Dalinar. Of course, as we now know from Oathbringer, Dalinar was in no fit state to join any secret group after what happened at the Rift (being too busy making sure he was completely drunk for most of the time after that), which all probably happened before Gavilar started working with the Sons of Honor.
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  12. Okay, this is embarrassing. I just caught a dumb mistake in my calculations from yesterday. (I somehow doubled Roshar's radius when I graphed it out.) Correction: Now the example orbit is not quite as close: 2R at closest approach (rather than 0.5R). This means it rises in Shinovar just after setting in Alethkar. (So we've gained a buffer of one hour, not two, in our time zone considerations.) The increased distance also means that the change in apparent size, while still substantial, is less dramatic. Nothing is going to triple in size, though it can still come close for some locations. Approximately doubling in size won't be uncommon. The visibility times don't change drastically from what I posted before. Add half an hour for coastal observers, three quarters of an hour for central observers.
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  13. Me, and probably pretty much all the villagers right now:
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  14. I did expect that Elephant vote to stick longer than five minutes, yes
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  15. First off, welcome to the Shard and great first post! I'm going to take a shardblade to its premise, but it was still a very nice bit of thinking. As has been noted, it is (meta)physically impossible for a Shard to break an oath made with Intent (using Rayse's capitalization, not the sense of the driving mandate of a given Shard) for the reason that the Stormfather explains to Dalinar: Adonalsium's power permeates them and binds them to keep their oaths. It's even more impossible for Honor to betray an oath because that's diametrically opposed to the Intent of his Shard. Preservation can't destroy, Ruin can't create for creation's own sake, Honor can't betray. Now, I do agree completely that there's wiggle-room in the nature of the Intents and I have no doubt that it's going to be an ongoing factor, but not like this. Odium has murdered at least three other Shards and while he might argue that going after Devotion and Dominion was because they violated some unspecified agreement about staying apart, he can't use that excuse for targeting Ambition and per Word of Brandon she was first on his hit list. And one of the Shards he killed embodies the idea of love/compassion. So yeah, Odium does indeed appear to deserve his reputation even if we didn't have WoBs on the subject. Or in-universe characters holding similar opinions, chiefly Hoid, Frost and Khriss. Odium is deliberately keeping the whole 'I've picked you as my Champion' thing from Dalinar while subtly trying to manipulate him, so I'm perfectly happy to take anything he says in that exchange wiith a pinch of salt. The difference between Rayse and Ati vis a vis lying probably has something to do with the latter being 1) completely certain he was going to win, so it didn't matter and 2) thoroughly twisted by his Shard so he's not really capable of thinking beyond it. Though he is still capable of deception, see how he manipulates Vin and Spook for example. Rayse is noted by Brandon to be a very good match for Odium and he seems to have his original personality intact, so he's probably better at deceit in general. We also know that Harmony can lie. Oh, and on that note we do have some evidence from Oathbringer that Frost can be wrong. He thinks (per the WoR letter) that Rayse is now more a force than an individual, contrary to Hoid's assertion. OB seems to validate Hoid's take on it, that Rayse is indeed still in control. We don't have much reason to believe that Frost is wrong in his assessment of what Odium's Intent is however. Brandon's also said that he originally planned to call that Shard 'Hatred' for what that's worth. I suspect that wherever the name Odium came from in-universe, they were right on the money and Odium's whole spiel about how he's really the power of Passion is self-serving and more a side-effect of his power than the main focus of it.
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  16. I have proposed it on Discord already: What if Azure is actually Vivenna Returned? What if she died and Endowment Returned her and - uniquely - gave her back her memories and sent her hunting for Nightblood and Vasher?
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  17. My favorite out-of-context 17th Shard quote:
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  18. There has been a lot of discussion concerning Sja-anat's abilities to corrupt spren, and not only lesser spren, but radiant spren as well. Interestingly enough, I have not seen really much discussion regarding whether she is a potentially trustworthy entity. And I am curious what your gut feelings are! On the one hand, we have, ostensibly, Sja-anat warning Shallan not to use the Oathgate when they're fleeing Kholinar: she claims that it is a trap, that she was compelled to (somehow) corrupt the Oathgate spren, and that Ashertmarn fled on purpose, she then says that the Oathgate will not work as expected, and she'll try not to kill them, which she ostensibly does, as Shallan and co end up in Shadesmar. Sja-anat also asks Shallan to verify her plea with "her son"; and that she's no longer of Odium, but "of me". So, on the surface of it, it looks like she's sincere- after all, Shallan and co survive, whilst what may be her corrupted son, Glys, (please give other interpretations here, folks, I've not seen any yet) produced together with Renarin and lot of goodness, imho. And yet, and yet - a couple of points stand out: 1). Ashertmarn is supposed to be pretty mindless... dumb. So, to me, being bait in a trap,then fleeing on purpose, somehow indicates a higher degree of self awareness than I expected. Was there really a trap by Ashertmarn there? Or is Sja-anat controlling him by virtue of being more self-aware and, likely, important (consider the attitude and relationship Syl and her aunt have with windspren). 2). The oathgate spren are much larger than the lesser spren, are powerful, and are self-aware. If I understand correctly, before, Sja-anat, should not have been able to do what she did. Could it be that she knew that the Oathgate spren will malfunction, but will not kill those who seek transportation, and so she sets up a lie to get into the Radiant's good graces and be a spy - by claiming they should have been killed, she plays to the limitations of her control over Oathgate spren, and makes it seem like she countered Odium's wishes? Also, who is the son? Renarin? Someone else? Is she being vague on purpose? To counter this, I think two points (apart from wishing to believe in better natures of entities, especially with the likes of Moash running around...) could be raised: - Shallan found that Re-Shephir's nature was also changing, she's no longer a mindless killer, but it trying to understand the "creatures" it kills; then there is a general feeling that things are much muddier than they used to be - Venli, Jezrien's murder, Glys being prime examples (this kind of is point two - assuming that Sja-anat was asking the Radiants speak to Renarin and Glys, those two turned out to be just fine, thank you very much). - I suspect that, like with Dalinar and other entities changing their nature, Cultivation's hand might be behind this, carefully enabling change from the shadows (interesting point to make, given that Cultivation is all about change, would it not make sense that she would be all for "changing" Odium's Vessel, eh? It's been millenia, after all!), and I would guess her desire is to survive and lessen Odium's influence on Roshar, at the end of the day Anyhow, would love to hear your take on this. Personally, I do not feel paranoid enough to suspect Sja-anat of carefully positioning herself (at her own or Odium's behest) to corrupt the living lights out of Radiant spren at the centre of their power. (Yet she does mention something along the lines that "you will not give my children a home. Not yet." OB, p.820, UK KIndle ed. Which makes me think that she's planning to share her Enlightenment with Radiant spren.) PS Here is a thread discussing the possibility of Cultivation's influence on Sja-anat.
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  19. It's showing for me with a "Report Entry" button. Did that not appear for you?
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  20. Yeah, he seems mostly if not exclusively interested in spren manifesting in the Physical. His quest for intoxication/alespren for example only makes sense in the physical where there's alcohol to drink; everything drinkable in the Cognitive would have to come from the Physical anyways. If it's of interest to him he might eventually hop over to the other side and see what all the spren look like in the Cognitive but it doesn't seem to be a pressing concern for him at present. And given all the new cataloguing he can do of how spren change when Sja-anat corrupts them, he's got lots more potential research fodder to keep him in the Physical for the time being.
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  21. 'Getting Yoda'd' could now become a euphamism for being trolled. Frost doesn't just say that, he says that Rayse wanted to become 'hatred'. So I'm skeptical that he started as something else and then changed, especially as all the evidence we have says that Intents Do Not Work That Way. If a Shard can be splintered entirely and still keep its Intent, it's hard to imagine knocking a chunk of power off of an intact Shard (however big a chunk) would have that kind of effect.
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  22. To boil this down, you're "solving" the problem of the weights leveling(balancing) out by adding more weights? I suppose that would work, since you would have another pair ready to go immediately once one pair levels out, and it'd give you time to manually reset the leveled out ones while keeping the ships going. It'd take work to maintain, but it's doable. Like above, the manual effort would be an exertion, but it's doable. I'm glad this has been explained better now, so we can move on to what's still bothering me about your set-up. Also, you quoted the same part of my post twice, and I'm not 100% on if that was intentional. Just thought I'd mention it. You appear to have misread me(or I wasn't clear enough before). The jolt to the system I mentioned in my previous post would be felt at Urithiru's end, not the ship. The ship is falling. Since it's a Reverser, the downwards momentum of the ship would translate into an upwards bump to the counterweight when you reengage the Fabrial. Given that you want the weight to drop in order to push the ship up, the weight would be at the top of it's apparatus already when it gets that bump. That bump will shove it upwards into it's holding apparatus, which is gonna cause extra wear/tear as well as set up a potential structural issue in the future. Depending on the force(and on the size of the weight), it could even break free of your apparatus. The "disputed axis," as you call it, has always been the horizontal movement of the ship. I still do not believe your rotational idea will work. It just.. clashes with how I feel like I understand the workings of Conjoined Fabrials. Pairing Fabrials don't operate on momentum though. They duplicate the motions of the other piece, either in concert with or in reverse of. The Pieces of the Reverser Fabrial are mounted to the ship and attached to the counterweights at Urithiru, correct? If the ship moves up, the weight moves down. If the ship moves forwards, the weight moves backwards. If the ship moves left... and so on. The problem, as I have come to realize, is that your definition of "backwards" is not the same as mine. The Fabrial sets frame of reference in all 3 axes upon activation. No matter where the Fabrial is, up will always be above it's starting location, left will always be to the left of start.. and so on. The direction of "forwards" relative to the Fabrial on the ship does not change, so the direction of "backwards" relative to the Fabrial on the counterweight will not change either. If that "backwards" happens to be west, the counterweight will be pushed west of where it started, and only west. So long as the ship maintains the same trajectory, it is physically impossible for the Fabrial counterweight to go in circles around your carousel. The direction of the force being applied to the Fabrial doesn't allow it. Unless the ship changes the direction it's flying, the direction of the force being applied will not change, and the only "circles" your counterweight would be capable of doing are latitude/longitude lines.
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  23. @maxal I really like your post about Adolin. Thanks for writing it. Not seeing the romance from Adolin's perspective is a part of my dissatisfaction with the romance. Not a big part, but a part. Adolin thinks about Shallan just a little bit in OB. The most Adolin thinks about Shallan is in WOR when he lists the things he likes about her. I assume their relationship has developed since then, so it would have been good to have his thoughts about her updated in OB, especially since the end of OB is their marriage. I also don't think it is a good thing that the little he thinks about Shallan is mostly him concluding she prefers Kaladin to him. I don't understand Adolin's thought process. He goes from breaking up with Shallan to marriage very fast. @Alderant I think we pretty much agree about Shallan and her masks. Just because she puts on a mask doesn't mean their aren't real parts of her fueling certain aspects of her mask. I think her masks show real parts of her, just not the whole picture. Part of the problem in OB is that Shallan thinks she can't be all these things; that she has to be one thing instead of more complex.
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  24. She always puts her left shoe on before her right, and though it seems obviously backwards, she places her safehand in the sleeve BEFORE her other hand. This has to do with buttons and modesty. She loves reading, but not for pleasure; she loves the academic reparte' she has with the author and her/his approach to reason. Her favorite alcohol is NOT Horneater white, but a deep violet wine with fruity flavors added. She is an exceptionally difficult date and even worse when given too broad a choice for dinner selections, as she argues with herself and the date for inordinate amounts of time the pros and cons of the selection, often hoping to use this to draw out the personality of her date, but usually putting the dinner party in a poor mood prior to getting some food. Following battles in Thaylen City, she looks particularly "wrung out" and markedly unattractive. If you are a merchant who happens to do business with her, you usually walk away with a better deal than ever you have had, since her naivete and impatience always works in your favor. She loves lime sherbet, and is a sucker for any play that comes to town. She has no idea the value of aluminum and highly underestimates soulcasting. Not a good choice for caregiver of people of any age, and is now fully on the radar of Odium as a vulnerable foe. Don't ask me how I know these things, the answer is many times longer than this post, and is partially fiction. (actually...all of it is! Hmmm... Can a man's definition of fiction have levels?)
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  25. Don't mean to pick on you RShara. I am just grabbing the whole "passion" reference from seeing it from several people. I know you don't agree. My thought on this is that perhaps Sanderson is using the archaic meaning of the word. Passion originally referred to suffering. The Latin root I believe is Passio.
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  26. What I'm afraid of is that she gets the baby and then everything is magically fine (which is going to happen out of necessity, unless Sanderson wants to write a seriously disturbing parenthood). But seriously... more spice to her character? Shallan isn't spicy or interesting enough as is, with three separate personas, a ton of secrets and probably some even we the readers haven't learned about yet, and having a baby would... add spice? Personally it would ruin her character. I don't exactly want to read Parenting 101 from the perspective of Shallan, who already has the duties of a Radiant and the burden of suffering from a mental illness. It would not make any sense at all for her to suddenly turn into the perfect little parent with nothing but love and adoration for the little one. It's just... no. Ugh.
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  27. Bored + fell sick so I dug up an old beot I wrote for myself ages ago (pre-LG12) and updated it a bit. It's unpolished and I'm meh about it, but.
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  28. It seems unbelievable that an entire year could go by in the middle of an active war and nothing of significance happens.
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  29. AG4/AN1 - Day 8: An Honourable Death Aldrick had been a warrior, once. He’d fought and killed and brought peace. But when the new Desolation started, he was too old, already retired to Rennan. And so he could do nothing but sit and watch in pain as villagers killed each other over tiny things, desperately searching for the killer among them. When they came for him, he fought. He couldn’t not - surrender had never been his way. But he was old, and unprepared, and there were more of them than he could fight. He died honourably, struck through the heart by a sword. And another sun rose. Emerald Falcon was killed. They were a Villager. Day 8 has begun. It will end in 48 hours, at 10pm GMT on the 4th February. Player List 1. Amethyst Scorpion 2. Azure Mouse 3. Amber Vulture - Villager 4. Charcoal Hyena - Cannoc - Villager 5. Chartreuse Penguin - Villager 6. Coral Swan - Elyle - Village Lightweaver 7. Cream Tuatara - Villager 8. Emerald Falcon - Aldrick - Villager 9. Fuschia Ostrich 10. Indigo Weasel - Village Elsecaller 11. Ivory Dragonfly - Nolan 12. Magenta Albatross 13. Mauve Crocodile 14. Melon Dingo - Quentisan - Village Edgedancer 15. Mint Heron 16. Onyx Flamingo - Squawk - Village Lightweaver 17. Opal Lion - Villager 18. Oxblood Beagle - Jai - Village Willshaper 19. Pearl Chameleon 20. Plum Rhinoceros - Villager 21. Quartz Zebra 22. Saffron Iguana - Emalia - Village Lightweaver 23. Sage Kangaroo 24. Salmon Meerkat - Village Bondsmith 25. Sapphire Elephant 26. Scarlet Octopus - Village Edgedancer 27. Sunburst Toucan - Vanna 28. Taupe Gecko - Villager 29. Turquoise Gorilla - Village Dustbringer 30. Violet Axolotl
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  30. This is how I feel giving rep in this thread:
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  31. I really liked Sixth of the Dusk as well it is my favorite short story by Brandon behind TES. The world was interesting as well as the future Cosmere implications of the "Ones Above". All in all really solid. Honestly all of Brandon's Cosmere shorts have been good. I hope he continues to write them.
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  32. Most of us dislike this romance, so you're in good company here (I know that wasn't the exact point you were getting at though, haha.) That being said, don't worry about jumping in late! We won't hold you down and make you stay You'll also see a lot of people asking for evidence in the opposite direction, so that is very welcome! It makes a much stronger argument to confront bias and try and see the other side. I personally started in this thread because I wanted people to convince me the ending was one which was satisfying; I was desperate for evidence that there was something magical about the Shallan-Adolin romance that I missed. My big turning point was when I realized Shallan was sitting when Adolin "sees" the "real" Shallan and then stands up when Kaladin lands (this dynamic - sitting with Adolin and then standing to look at Kaladin is also present in a scene in Honor's Path.) Given Brandon's obvious symbolism regarding Shallan needing to be the girl who stood up (OB, Chapter 82, The Girl Who Stood Up), I was left with either that symbolism having to mean something or that Brandon was very sloppy in ignoring it later in the book. I chose the former and here we are! To get more to your point - evidence is what is written in the book or in a WoB. You can argue about the meaning behind it, but you can't argue that it isn't on the page (/website in the case of WoB.) To get to one conclusion or the other (Adolin or Kaladin), either side has to explain around some evidence. For a pro-Kaladin argument, it's mostly explaining around that Shallan chose Adolin and married him (which is why you get a lot of discussions about whether or not Brandon would do a divorce or otherwise how could they break up), but there doesn't seem to be a lot of meta evidence which points towards Adolin to contend with. For a pro-Adolin argument, you should read the document linked in the very first post on this thread, as it contains a lot of quotes and WoB which are theorized to point towards Kaladin that need to be contended with to arrive at a pro-Adolin conclusion. Some of these form stronger arguments than others, but there is a lot to explain around in order to come to the conclusion that Shallan and Adolin are meant to last. This quote has led to theories about how Shallan would need to divorce Adolin to save Pattern from dying earlier in the thread, yet _this_ comes shortly after: "Syl", kaladin repeated. "We jumped hand-in-hand, but she let go". And, funnily enough gets soundly ignored. No furious theorising about how Syl will abandon Kaladin or he will kill her yet again, no far-reaching predictions about his character. Crickets. Never mind that there was actually a very good reason for Shallan to prioritize Adolin, who, of them all, was in most immediate danger of suffocating if she lost him in the beads, as the only human unable to inhale stormlight in their group, while there is no such excuse for Kaladin/Syl. This has actually been brought up before (but not like I expect you to have read this whole thing!, just pointing it out.) I personally think the theory that the Shallan/Pattern bond is fraying is one which has some of the more speculative evidence - there's some there (including this quote and Pattern's lack of presence at the end of OB), but there is also evidence of them having a good bond (interactions in Shadesmar for instance.) Your point regarding Kaladin/Syl is a good one, though if you're re-reading that scene, I would look at the difference between Shallan's reaction to Pattern being missing and Kaladin's over Syl. Kaladin is frantic (immediately asking for Syl, pacing - we see this from Shallan's PoV) whereas Shallan is very nonchalant about Pattern not making it to the room, not mentioning him from when his hand slipped out of hers until he finds his way back to the room. Kaladin's reaction makes sense given what he's been through; he's lost Syl once before and is desperate to not do so again. Shallan's reaction...? Who knows. Maybe it's showing she's more rational about the fact spren don't need to breath (even if we don't hear her thought about this.) Maybe it's showing she isn't as attached to her spren as Kaladin. We can theorize about what it means, but the fact (i) Shallan clung to Adolin and lost hold of Pattern and (ii) Shallan has a vastly different reaction to losing hold of her spren than Kaladin, are things which did happened, so are open to interpretation as to their meaning. This is something which is complained about a lot with regards to the Jasnah and Elhokar deaths in particular, and I agree that neither was handled with a lot of emotion. (Not totally disregarded - there is definitely mention in the books, but not treated with a ton of emotional weight.) Do lack of expected reactions/thoughts in a PoV mean something though? Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. There have been arguments (not here but other places where I saw this complained about) that neither Jasnah nor Elhokar was a main character, so others' reactions to their deaths were only used when needed, i.e. Navani's journal and missing signs of the Parshendi changing tactics related to grief over Jasnah's death or Kaladin's comatose reaction to Moash killing Elhokar. To point out an obvious "lack of reaction means something" moment, there is Jasnah's non-reaction to Shallan stealing her soulcaster. I agree with you it's very hard to prove a negative - it's always better evidence when you have the benefit of an explicit passage rather than just the absence of anything on point. (Adolin's feelings for Shallan fall into this category for me. We have no evidence from his PoV that he has strong feelings for Shallan, but it's just absence of any strong feelings rather than Adolin explicitly thinking that he doesn't.) In my mind, it's still an open point until we have evidence one way or another, but that doesn't mean the absence of something can't be used as evidence; it's still proof that the author decided to not include something (intentionally or not.) It's just not as strong of evidence as something which directly addresses an issue, because as you point out, it may not mean anything. I'm actually not sure if you're a big Adolin fan? And are you saying this is why you're OK with Adolin being in a romance with someone not totally devoted to him/where he doesn't show feelings? (This was the point of the post of mine you quoted.) If so, I see this as being a subset of "Shadolin is good to keep Adolin in the story more" so that's good I was on the right track about why some Adolin fans are so willing to accept a romance which is not-so-satisfying from an Adolin perspective! Where does this come from? We see Kaladin in WoK flashbacks as being fascinated with drawings of human bodies (which is very akin to Shallan's interest in natural history actually.) Is there something I forget where Kaladin is anti-art? I wholeheartedly agree with this. Kaladin (as a character) got nothing from the arc. He got something from the chasms as an example of judging a lighteyes before knowing more of their story, but there was no reason to keep it going from a character-development perspective. The hypocrisy of "Kaladin has depression and shouldn't be in a relationship" coupled with "it's great Shallan got married to Adolin" drives me batty! Also the idea (as @SLNC pointed out) that Kaladin is the overprotective one, when Adolin is the one shown on the page annoying Shallan with his over-protectiveness. (This does continue into OB though in milder form, such as the beginning of Chapter 110, A Million Stars. "Shallan put her freehand on the frame of the open cargo door and leaned out over the churning depths. Adolin tried to tug her back, but she remained in place.") Notably, in the Re-Shephir confrontation, Shallan is channeling and using her difficult past to make her stronger. (This is one of my favorite Shallan passages ever, so I'm going to re-quote is below .) Shallan then realizes Re-Shephir is going to learn all of her (Shallan's) secrets ("know her completely, discover each and every one of her secrets"), since Shallan is so open at that moment, and Shallan loses her "ferocity and determination" until she decides to lie ("So she lied... She'd always been that way. She would continue that way forever.") I don't think it's any coincidence that after this Shallan huddles in her room for a day (note: I believe I read somewhere this was a week in either the alpha or beta version, but changed as readers found it unrealistic Shallan would remain holed up for so long after Jasnah's return) and then starts fracturing even more distinctly. I think this exposure of "herself" and subsequent decision to solve her doubt (or perceived shortcomings) by lying was quite detrimental to her mental health. Shallan doesn't regain the ability to face her painful memories until Thaylen City, and at that point she explicitly needs Veil and Radiant in order to do so, as her illusions start to fail when she Lightweaves her mother until Veil and Radiant emerge and grab her hands. (OB, Ch. 120, The Spear That Would Not Break, pg. 1149 US kindle edition)
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  33. AG4/AN1 - Day 7: Feathered Illusions Squawk was haunted by the previous days. Weasel had been innocent. Squawk had stood by as they voted to lynch him the second time, after he escaped the first time. Granted, he didn't put up any resistance, but acknowledging that didn't make her feel any better. After all, weasel was one of the ones that retracted his vote, and had probably saved her life a few days back. She almost wished it was her. The guilt of surviving at the cost of someone else overcame her, and she wept. She awoke some time later. She must have cried herself to sleep, but she heard the horses and chulls making noise as someone shut the stables. The people often let her sleep in here with the livestock during highstorms, and she felt slightly better here than being alone lately. Were they going to kick her out because of all the suspicion that had been infecting the town? She got on the back of a chull so she could see who it was and beg them to let her stay here even though the town was in disarray. Upon a glance, though, she knew something was wrong. The figure was wearing a hood so they couldn't be discerned, and in one hand they held a wickedly curved dagger. The figure noticed her and began to approach. "Wait, please, you don't need to do this," Squawk chirped. The figure didn’t react to her statement at all. Well, fine. Squawk was going to leave a mark on them at least. She pounced, attacking with wings and beak. This got a reaction out of the figure: they seemed confused, but slowly that wore off. Man, Squawk’s head hurt from that attack. "I see. So that's how things are," the figure said, purposely distorting their voice. They leapt forward and grabbed Squawk’s wing with one hand and stabbed her chest with the other. Squawk tried to peck his hooded eyes out, but got herself pinned on the ground. In the process, the figure left the knife in her chest and secured her other arm down. As she tried to peck his face once more, she noticed that her beak was passing through him! Her knife wound wasn't hurting too badly either. It had a cold sensation around it, and it almost felt like it was healing around the dagger. That's when she remembered. Remembered that she had a nose and mouth not a beak, remembered she had long black hair instead of feathers, and remembered that she was of the order of the Lightweavers sent to this town to spy on rumored followers of Odium. But she had somehow become absorbed into the role of Squawk, after a villager almost shot her with his bow and she had had to speak to prevent her from blowing her cover. Talking chicken, old magic, spren bonds, the explanation had seemed ludicrous... but then Squawk had believed it too hadn’t she. Except her name wasn't... Squawk... her name was....... The stormlight ran out. The figure had been moving the knife back and forth. Squawk’s chest was flaring with pain, her uniform dyed red with blood. She felt her thoughts become muddy, and the lack of stormlight exhausting. She did wonder, though, would anyone mourn her death, since the town wouldn’t know who she was? Such were her thoughts as the blood slowed and then stopped bubbling from her chest. A small pond of blood formed around her. Credit goes to Onyx Flamingo for their death writeup. Onyx Flamingo has died. They were a Village Lightweaver. Day 7 has begun. It will end in 48 hours, at 10pm GMT on the 2nd February. Player List 1. Amethyst Scorpion 2. Azure Mouse 3. Amber Vulture 4. Charcoal Hyena - Cannoc - Villager 5. Chartreuse Penguin - Villager 6. Coral Swan - Elyle - Village Lightweaver 7. Cream Tuatara - Villager 8. Emerald Falcon - Aldrick 9. Fuschia Ostrich 10. Indigo Weasel - Village Elsecaller 11. Ivory Dragonfly - Nolan 12. Magenta Albatross 13. Mauve Crocodile 14. Melon Dingo - Quentisan - Village Edgedancer 15. Mint Heron 16. Onyx Flamingo - Squawk - Village Lightweaver 17. Opal Lion - Villager 18. Oxblood Beagle - Jai - Village Willshaper 19. Pearl Chameleon 20. Plum Rhinoceros - Villager 21. Quartz Zebra 22. Saffron Iguana - Emalia - Village Lightweaver 23. Sage Kangaroo 24. Salmon Meerkat - Village Bondsmith 25. Sapphire Elephant 26. Scarlet Octopus - Village Edgedancer 27. Sunburst Toucan - Vanna 28. Taupe Gecko - Villager 29. Turquoise Gorilla - Village Dustbringer 30. Violet Axolotl
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  34. AG4/AN1 - Day 2: Fires in the Night Lady Emalia sat in her room late at night, staring out the tiny window at the bonfire burning down below. With such a small village, that fire would never be allowed to go out except during highstorms, and would be the main source of fire for the entire village. She looked at the tiny spark, lost in thought. She hadn’t meant to come here. Hadn’t meant to find another place of death and destruction, and yet... She hated it. Why did it have to happen, this cycle of death? Was there no other way? What twisted part of the universe made it right for friend to kill friend? She didn’t know. Her hands shook, again. She’d survived so far. She’d been lucky enough to come out of this alive, so far. But she could feel that her luck wouldn’t hold forever. Emalia turned to retrieve pen and paper from her satchel, to write out her experiences in the case that she died this time. She had a brief glimpse of a dark figure in the room, too dark to make out with her eyes blinded from staring into the fire. Lady Emalia pressed her lips together, closed her eyes, and sat tall. “Fate makes a mockery of us all,” she murmured. A flash of pain; darkness. Elyle woke. He judged it to be a few hours before dawn, and couldn’t tell at first what had wakened him. He sat up, and smelled it. Smoke. “Fire!” he cried. “Fire in the inn!” Behind a closed door, Cannoc’s blackened body lay on the wooden floor, smoldering, and the flames began to catch. Charcoal Hyena (Cannoc) has died. They were a Villager. Saffron Iguana (Lady Emalia) has died. They were a Village Lightweaver. Edgedancer Message: A solitary Melon Not actually a Felon The sad little Dingo The maker of Lingo Now there’s no more Yellin’ But I am still alive. In this town I thrive. So Odium beware. I tell you to despair Of your life I will deprive. Day Two has begun. It will end Thursday 18 January at 10pm GMT. Player List 1. Amethyst Scorpion 2. Azure Mouse 3. Amber Vulture 4. Charcoal Hyena - Cannoc 5. Chartreuse Penguin 6. Coral Swan - Elyle 7. Cream Tuatara 8. Emerald Falcon - Aldrick 9. Fuschia Ostrich 10. Indigo Weasel 11. Ivory Dragonfly - Nolan 12. Magenta Albatross 13. Mauve Crocodile 14. Melon Dingo - Quentisan 15. Mint Heron 16. Onyx Flamingo - Squawk 17. Opal Lion 18. Oxblood Beagle - Jai 19. Pearl Chameleon 20. Plum Rhinoceros 21. Quartz Zebra 22. Saffron Iguana - Emalia 23. Sage Kangaroo 24. Salmon Meerkat 25. Sapphire Elephant 26. Scarlet Octopus 27. Sunburst Toucan - Vanna 28. Taupe Gecko 29. Turquoise Gorilla 30. Violet Axolotl Anonymous Account Rules
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  35. I suppose it's possible but it seems like it would be an unnecessary complication, based on what we know right now. 'Azure' doesn't do anything that Vivenna couldn't do or learn to do as of the last time we see her. Here's an interesting bit from the Warbreaker annotations: Which seems to cover her disappearing scar and possibly her not looking that much older than her age in Warbreaker. There is the performance of the Wall Guard and one member (I forget who) claiming that with her they fought like the spren were behind them, but that could have to do with Awakening tricks we don't currently know much about (Vasher being able to alter memory, for instance). She's also got a slightly extended lifespan assuming she has the exact same Breath store she ended Warbreaker with (Second Heightening and we know the First was enough to extend life by around a decade) and her brother-in-law could probably loan her more if she needed them for some reason. Or she could learn whatever trick Demoux, Baon, Khriss and Nazh use. So if there's enough time passing between stories that require her to dramatically extend her lifespan, she's got ways to do it without needing to be a Returned. And since she does have her full memories, we'd need some evidence for why she's the exception to the rule before I'd start to warm up to it. I do like the idea that Vasher was Returned as part of a long-range plan by Endowment involving what's going on in Stormlight Archive but I'm not as sure on Vivenna. That said, I don't know what else you might have said on Discord so... hit me with your best shot.
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  36. I'm just getting back to the Shard after a couple months hiatus so I'm currently unsteady on my feet so this is probably going to be nonsensical post but first - yes, @kenod I'm probably going to update this quiz but first I'm going to have to get my copy of Oathbringer first (because literature in my country sucks and they can never ship the books I want in time so I'm probably going to end up with a copy in May kmn) @Curiousity's Splinter thank you for the earnest opinion. In terms of balancing the scales I'm pretty sure I have the bases covered but yes I'll admit that the questions may be skewed to certain KR orders (or more likely it is extremely difficult to find a sharder who checks the more warrior-esque orders because everybody in the shard is a scholar or an intellectual in some manner or the other XD)
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  37. Hello @Epicazeroth! Have an upvote and a cookie! What is your favorite cosmere book?
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  38. I've mentioned this a couple times before, but I think I need to post it. Shallan's final truth will be "I am Shallan Davar." This is based on the whole "I am the Law" thing, and possibly "I am Unity" being the words for the fifth oath, even if he didn't actually swear it yet.
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  39. Summary of part 1 Kaladin's still mopy, so no change there... Kaladin punches Roshone in the face, YES!!!!! I don't think we'll have a problem with mating as long as Pattern's around Amaram's a highprince, NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! Shallan's has an identity crisis and subsequently defeats an ancient evil who turns out to be a maliciously curious spren, and on top of all that, she continues to create different personalities for herself Dalinar's reputation as the Blackthorn comes back to bite him Dalinar really needs a steak knife, so that assassination attempt was right on time Dalinar is married by the God of Storms, then starts remembering his previous wife's name, how mysterious and unfortunate Voidbringers like to play cards and pick flowers, how cute And finally, Jasnah's back, so that's good
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  40. Didn't even need to make this one:
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  41. I HATE THAT STORMING MOASH
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  42. Mraize definitely has an Aviar. @Argent said so.
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  43. And @king of nowhere asked for this one
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  44. My thoughts on Mraize's chicken:
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  45. Chapter 14 | @ Kaladin Chapter 14 | @ Khen (the female voidbringer) to the male: Chapter 14 | @ Kal watching the voidbringers: Chapter 13 Chapter 15 | @ Adolin & Shallan discussing the Urithiru murders: Chapter 15 | Shallan's mental image when Adolin offers to train her: Chapter 15 | @ Shallan Chapters 1 - 15 | All the surgebinders (but especially Kaladin):
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  46. Just a Veden girl! Livin’ in a lonely world! She took the midnight chull Going anywhere! Just a Kholin boy! Born and raised in Kholinar! He took the midnight chull Going anywhere! A bridgeman in a smoky room, The smell of ale and heaped refuse! For a smile they can share the night, It goes on and on and on and on! (Chorus) Brightlords waiting up and down the palace halls! Their shadows searching in the night! Sphere lights, people, Living just to find emotion! Hiding, somewhere in the night! (Verse 2) Working hard to get my way Everybody wants a day! Payin’ anything to roll the dice Just one last time. Some will win, some will lose Some were born to wear the blues! Oh, the radiance never ends It goes on and on and on and on (Chorus) (Rock out, people!) Don’t stop the Weavin’ Hold on to that feelin’ Sphere lights, people, Woaahhhh! Don’t stop the Weavin’ Hold on…. Sphere lights, people, OHHHH! Don’t stop the Weavin’ Hold on to that feelin’ Stormlight, people. (Fade out)
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  47. Creating these is fun. Spoiler tags because the pics are huge:
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