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Showing content with the highest reputation on 02/08/2018 in all areas

  1. 70 points
    This is a fork of a hastily-posted and incorrect previous theory that had some very interesting replies. I wanted to write up everything in a new thread with references; special thanks to CaptainRyan, Wandering Investor, lookingglass, Subvisual Haze, and ROSHtaFARian2.0. THEORY: The third Bondsmith is bonded to a large and powerful spren that powers the Urithiru fabrial network. For simplicity, we will refer to this spren as "the Sibling." Three Siblings and Three Bondsmiths In OB Ch 64, Dalinar talks to the Stormfather about the other Bondsmiths: Later, in OB Ch 111, they discuss the three siblings again: It has long been suspected that there are three Bondsmiths because there are three Shards on Roshar. We have long assumed that the Nightwatcher was the second spren, which the Stormfather seems to be confirming in this quote. Following this logic, the conclusion would be that Odium also has a "giant" spren and that the third Bondsmith has the job of wrangling them. I assumed this in my original post, and assumed that the Sibling referenced by the Radiants (see below) was clearly not a voidspren and thus must be the Nightwatcher. However, thanks to the clever people in that thread, I think this must be false. As an aside, in the WoR Ch 44 epigraph we learn that one Bondsmith "was in continual accompaniment of Urithiru." Honor and Cultivation When thinking about Honor and Cultivation, it's important to remember that their Vessels were lovers, so it seems reasonable that they would have children. It would be totally reasonable for the children of Shards to be spren, I think. Based on the Stormfather's language, I think now that the Sibling is a combination of Honor and Cultivation. In retrospect, this makes much more sense than having the Bondsmith be Connected to a big, nasty voidspren. There is no reason to believe it is impossible, but I don't think that Odium would allow a particularly powerful Spren to lend its aid to the enemy. In fact, as the Bondsmiths are the most powerful individuals in Honor's magic system, I find it unnatural that they would be Connected to Odium. The Radiant's thoughts on the Sibling We know much about the Sibling from the gemstones left by the Radiants. They are generically supportive of the entity, which suggests that it is not of Odium or the Unmade. We can also draw some conclusions: I think it safe to assume that the Sibling was a large spren, and either withdrew from men or was forced away (Ch 68 and 70 epigraphs, respectively). Note that zircon is the stone for the Elsecallers, experts on spren and Shadesmar. The Sibling leaving was at least correlated in time with the abandonment of Urithiru and possibly of the Knights themselves (Ch 87 epigraph): The Urithiru fabrial I'm presenting this theory a bit backwards - the original impetus came from my earlier thread and the many good replies therein. Nevertheless, I think much of the logic still hangs together. Urithiru is an interesting place for many reasons. Even in the book, Shallan, Renarin, and Navani have already realized the tower is huge fabrial (Ch 44, 44, and 109): However, they can't simply turn it back on by re-infusing the pillar (Ch 44): This seems to imply that the spren that powered the fabrial is no longer present. It's important to note that the pillar would hold an almost unimaginable amount of Investiture. In fact, if we wanted to store a spren with power on order of the Stormfather, I think we would need something like that pillar. Lastly, the tower provides magical defenses against the Unmade (Ch 73): Cultivation's influence on the tower My original idea had the Nightwatcher pegged as the inhabitant because of the following quotes (Ch 69 and 107): The first seems to imply that growing things in Urithiru was relatively easy up until something went wrong, and the second seems to imply that the issues persist. Urithiru is supposed to be the Knight's stronghold on Roshar, and having a good food source is part of outlasting a siege. As Urithiru was almost certainly created by Honor and probably Cultivation for humans, it would be not very logical to fail to provide a source of food for the tower. But given the climate, plants would ordinarily struggle to grow. A major Splinter of Cultivation living nearby would probably be more than enough to compensate, allowing for plant life. It is entirely possible that the plants growing are just another part of the fabrial network, but this does not change the conclusion if we believe the captured spren would still need to be significantly related to Cultivation. PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER If we take the Stormfather's words literally and keep in mind Honor and Cultivation's romantic relationship, it seems entirely reasonable that the third Sibling is mix of their two powers. This Sibling is mentioned multiple times in reference to Urithiru, which has been established as an enormous fabrial. Putting these together, we can reason that this third Sibling powers the Urithiru fabrial and encourages plant growth. The third Bondsmith bonds this Sibling, which prompts them to stay in Urithiru. When this Sibling leaves Urithiru (either willingly or not), the tower's defenses fail and the Unmade can move in. How and why this occurs, how it is related to the Recreance, and the current status of the Sibling (apart from hurt and asleep) are all up for debate. The importance of Urithiru suggests that someone will need to find the Sibling and convince them to come back. Final thoughts My sincere thanks to everyone in the prior thread who contributed to these ideas. I welcome all commentary, and look forward to learning more. As a postscript, in my mind I imagine the Sibling as a huge warrior in Shadesmar, fighting off the influence of the Unmade.
  2. 61 points
  3. 57 points
  4. 48 points
    Ok, one more because I'm particularly proud of it.
  5. 45 points
  6. 38 points
    I've never done something like this, so not sure how it is. Spoilered for size. Kaladin's story, Part One: The story begins with our hero in his usual upbeat mood Till the surprising news He says hi to old acquaintances Before sharing all his new flashy gear Everyone reacts with the expected awe So he decides to cut short his family visit Then the ominious foreshadowing As he hunts down the evil monsters He eventually takes his leave His new friends are unhappy he leaves without a proper farewell And to end in his usual optimistic mood he decides to pick a fight with the shadow of a god The end of Part One.
  7. 30 points

    From the album Doodles of Roshar

    Just some poses for lift
  8. 30 points
    I grant to you, Toasters Stormlight Awards, for Part One: MVP POV: Shallan. She had the most action, bits of lore with Unmade info, a couple of really fun scenes and character development that left everyone worried and intrigued. MVP secondary character: Pattern. He created memes and fandom jokes that will last longer than TLRs lifespan. He is the best spren. Also, some other awards: Most Overhyped Character: May Aladar. This lady caused a lot of discussion, and did this with zero lines, zero actions of importance and zero anything. She is like Stick, except for the fact that Stick has been more plot relevant, which says something. Most Badass Character: Dalinar. He went for a walk in a Highstorm, killed an assassin, and plans to invade everyones dreams. You can be cool, but you'll never be casually-strolling-through-a-Highstorm cool. Funniest Character: Pattern. You can't divide by zero, but you can give two awards to Pattern. Most Dead Character: Sadeas. Cause, ya know, he's dead.
  9. 29 points
    A little something I threw together. Sung to the tune of "You're Welcome" from Moana by the very talented Dwayne Johnson and Lin Manuel Miranda. I see what's happening here You're face-to-face with godhood and it's strange You don't even know who I am It's sobering! It's sad to see how much you humans changed Well pull up a stone, let's begin Yes, I'm your enemy Odium Breathe it in I know it's a lot: The storms, your plans So let your first god give you a hand What can I say except "Let go now" Of your pain, regret, your fear Hey, it's OK, it's OK. Let go now Your old friend Odium is here! Hey, what has two thumbs and and kept you alive When you were living up in the sky? This guy! When you are beat, who takes the Passion from your foe? You're looking at him, yo! Oh, also I brought you the Thrill —Let go now— So you could have fun when you kill Also, I Invested disease —Let go now— To give everyone Surges for free So what can I say except let go now Of that wife that you burned to the bone There's no need to pray, it's OK, Let go now I guess that I could make your pain my own Let go now, let go now Well, honestly Dalinar Son, seriously I can go on and on All of the reasons I want you as my champion Your strength, your pain, your skills That was how I made you a tool that could kill I killed your god, split him apart You're better off, he had no storming heart What's the lesson? What is the take-away? Don't mess with Rayse when he's on the breakaway And every place that I've been I left a corpse with a victory I win Devotion, Dominion, Honor, Ambition Ask the Stormfather what shape they are all in! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, hey! Well, anyway, let me let go now! For this wonderful war you're in Hey, it's OK, it's OK. Let go now! Well come to think of it, one more thing! Hey, it's your day to let me go now 'Cause I just want to be free I've got some Shards to kill, let go now 'Cause Rayse can do anything but leave! Let go now, let go now Give me your pain!
  10. 28 points
    Inspired by a couple of recent quotable quotes, I thought it could be fun to compile a list of 'slogans' that summarize us Sharders nicely. There was @Oversleep saying that this line from @The One Who Connects should be the site's tagline. And there was The One Who Connects commenting that this one from @Calderis should be one. @Faceless Mist-Wraith's summary of WoR. And my personal favorite, again Oversleep, saying this at one of the Poland signings. Ok some weren't quite slogans but they're close enough And sorry if the tags bothered anyone, just credit where credit's due. Feel free to add ones you've seen or suggest new ones.
  11. 28 points
  12. 28 points
    Adolin lets her be her. He doesn't need or want her to be anything else. That's everyone's reaction to Kaladin. It's not Shallan specific. It's what Kaladin is. Sure he's a protector, but even more than that, he's a leader. He inspires others to be better than they were. This will be IMO where his next Ideals will go.
  13. 26 points
    Basic moto of the site: We can't be wrong if we predict every single possibility!
  14. 24 points
    And I have to apologize for this one... Well that was more than I expected! I really only had the first 2 in mind when I started!
  15. 24 points
  16. 23 points
    My thoughts on Mraize's chicken:
  17. 23 points
    Just a Veden girl! Livin’ in a lonely world! She took the midnight chull Going anywhere! Just a Kholin boy! Born and raised in Kholinar! He took the midnight chull Going anywhere! A bridgeman in a smoky room, The smell of ale and heaped refuse! For a smile they can share the night, It goes on and on and on and on! (Chorus) Brightlords waiting up and down the palace halls! Their shadows searching in the night! Sphere lights, people, Living just to find emotion! Hiding, somewhere in the night! (Verse 2) Working hard to get my way Everybody wants a day! Payin’ anything to roll the dice Just one last time. Some will win, some will lose Some were born to wear the blues! Oh, the radiance never ends It goes on and on and on and on (Chorus) (Rock out, people!) Don’t stop the Weavin’ Hold on to that feelin’ Sphere lights, people, Woaahhhh! Don’t stop the Weavin’ Hold on…. Sphere lights, people, OHHHH! Don’t stop the Weavin’ Hold on to that feelin’ Stormlight, people. (Fade out)
  18. 22 points
     Shallan and her personalities:
  19. 20 points
    My favorite out-of-context 17th Shard quote:
  20. 17 points
    Creating this topic for Oathbringer-related discussion concerning Roshar's moons, as a continuation of this topic: With that said, here's some things I've been meaning to record... (1) Private message with Peter via Reddit about a reference to Salas in Oathbringer: (2) Also an interesting observation concerning the Oathbringer endpages in the Tor edition (Herald artwork): Ishar - Notable that we apparently see the three moons depicted in the background. Not much interesting about this as far as I can tell, but I figure it's worth pointing out. Jezrien - Look very closely at the "buckle" on his belt. There's a circle of the ten polestones, with heliodor at the top. And inside of that circle are three other stones spaced at different angles, seeming to be purple, blue and green... Vedel - Those are also depicted in the stained glass window behind Vedel. We can also see their positions inside the circle with a bit more accuracy here. Also note that we can compare their sizes: the purple one is slightly smaller than the green, and the blue one is definitely largest. I think it's pretty clear that the three stones/circles we see in Jezrien's and Vedel's artwork are depictions of the moons. I believe their positions are actually indicative of their timing--presumably the time that they rise. Think of Vedel's stained glass window as a 10-hour clock (matching Roshar's 20-hour day). Rather than splitting the day by noon/midnight, they split the day by sunrise/sunset. So if you have exactly 10 hours of light/dark, the sun would rise and set at 0:00 (or 10:00, depending on convention) and noon/midnight would be at 5:00. Eyeballing the position of the moons around this circle in Vedel's image, it would suggest that Salas rises around 3/4 of an hour after sundown. Fits pretty well with the descriptions that it rises right around full dark. Nomon is only about 2 hours later, suggesting that Salas moves pretty darn fast. I think there's a WoR reference suggesting Salas reaches full height in half an hour, so that would actually work well. (if I remember right). Nomon sets as Mishim rises, which means it's up for a good 4 hours. Then Mishim would be up for another 2.5 hours or so until sunrise. It's hard to say how exact those positions are meant to be. And I could be interpreting something wrong here? But I think it seems to generally fit the right idea, if nothing else. It also reinforces the idea that they follow the same rise times everywhere. (somehow) It's curious to me that the artist (I think it's supposed to be the same one in both of these?) would inscribe the moons inside of the ten polestones. That's some interesting Vorin (?) imagery and I'm not sure what the meaning could be. The fact that they both have it suggests to me that it has some kind of significance.
  21. 17 points
    Didn't even need to make this one:
  22. 17 points
  23. 16 points
    Hey guys. I need your opinion on these keteks I threw together. By the way, I would love to see some of your keteks too. Keteks Definition: A Ketek is a form of holy Vorin poetry which reads the same forward and backward (allowing for changes in verb form), and is also divisible into five sections, each of which also expresses a complete thought. Death Death comes. Without stopping Death arrives. Now Death, the death now arrived, Death stops without – Come Death! Death comes./ Without stopping Death arrives./ Now Death, the death now arrived,/ Death stops without/ – Come Death! __________________________________________________________________________________ Diamonds Beautiful diamonds, the blood of diamonds creates greed – sin to beauty, beauty to sin – greed creates diamonds of blood, the diamonds beautiful. Beautiful diamonds,/ the blood of diamonds creates greed/ – sin to beauty, beauty to sin – /greed creates diamonds of blood, /the diamonds beautiful. __________________________________________________________________________________ Darkness Darkness encroaches. Nearer, day by day: dawns darkness’s dawn. Day by day nearer, encroaching darkness. Darkness encroaches/. Nearer, day by day: /dawns darkness’s dawn./ Day by day nearer,/ encroaching darkness. __________________________________________________________________________________ Moonlight Illuminates darkness by moonlight. Silhouettes created by pale and gray light. Dim lights of lights dim, light pale and gray creates silhouettes. Moonlight by darkness illuminates. Illuminates darkness by moonlight./ Silhouettes created by pale and gray light. /Dim lights of lights dim, /light pale and gray creates silhouettes./ Moonlight by darkness illuminates. __________________________________________________________________________________ Note: the second writing of the ketek is separated into its five segments PS: Szeth-son-son-Vallano is awesome keteks.txt
  24. 16 points
  25. 15 points
    I just want to say that I loved "Sixth of the Dusk" and I want a full book in the Drominad system. Any one else feel this way?
  26. 15 points
  27. 14 points
    Brandon recently on Reddit: [Source]
  28. 14 points
    And @king of nowhere asked for this one
  29. 14 points
  30. 13 points
    Most of us dislike this romance, so you're in good company here (I know that wasn't the exact point you were getting at though, haha.) That being said, don't worry about jumping in late! We won't hold you down and make you stay You'll also see a lot of people asking for evidence in the opposite direction, so that is very welcome! It makes a much stronger argument to confront bias and try and see the other side. I personally started in this thread because I wanted people to convince me the ending was one which was satisfying; I was desperate for evidence that there was something magical about the Shallan-Adolin romance that I missed. My big turning point was when I realized Shallan was sitting when Adolin "sees" the "real" Shallan and then stands up when Kaladin lands (this dynamic - sitting with Adolin and then standing to look at Kaladin is also present in a scene in Honor's Path.) Given Brandon's obvious symbolism regarding Shallan needing to be the girl who stood up (OB, Chapter 82, The Girl Who Stood Up), I was left with either that symbolism having to mean something or that Brandon was very sloppy in ignoring it later in the book. I chose the former and here we are! To get more to your point - evidence is what is written in the book or in a WoB. You can argue about the meaning behind it, but you can't argue that it isn't on the page (/website in the case of WoB.) To get to one conclusion or the other (Adolin or Kaladin), either side has to explain around some evidence. For a pro-Kaladin argument, it's mostly explaining around that Shallan chose Adolin and married him (which is why you get a lot of discussions about whether or not Brandon would do a divorce or otherwise how could they break up), but there doesn't seem to be a lot of meta evidence which points towards Adolin to contend with. For a pro-Adolin argument, you should read the document linked in the very first post on this thread, as it contains a lot of quotes and WoB which are theorized to point towards Kaladin that need to be contended with to arrive at a pro-Adolin conclusion. Some of these form stronger arguments than others, but there is a lot to explain around in order to come to the conclusion that Shallan and Adolin are meant to last. This quote has led to theories about how Shallan would need to divorce Adolin to save Pattern from dying earlier in the thread, yet _this_ comes shortly after: "Syl", kaladin repeated. "We jumped hand-in-hand, but she let go". And, funnily enough gets soundly ignored. No furious theorising about how Syl will abandon Kaladin or he will kill her yet again, no far-reaching predictions about his character. Crickets. Never mind that there was actually a very good reason for Shallan to prioritize Adolin, who, of them all, was in most immediate danger of suffocating if she lost him in the beads, as the only human unable to inhale stormlight in their group, while there is no such excuse for Kaladin/Syl. This has actually been brought up before (but not like I expect you to have read this whole thing!, just pointing it out.) I personally think the theory that the Shallan/Pattern bond is fraying is one which has some of the more speculative evidence - there's some there (including this quote and Pattern's lack of presence at the end of OB), but there is also evidence of them having a good bond (interactions in Shadesmar for instance.) Your point regarding Kaladin/Syl is a good one, though if you're re-reading that scene, I would look at the difference between Shallan's reaction to Pattern being missing and Kaladin's over Syl. Kaladin is frantic (immediately asking for Syl, pacing - we see this from Shallan's PoV) whereas Shallan is very nonchalant about Pattern not making it to the room, not mentioning him from when his hand slipped out of hers until he finds his way back to the room. Kaladin's reaction makes sense given what he's been through; he's lost Syl once before and is desperate to not do so again. Shallan's reaction...? Who knows. Maybe it's showing she's more rational about the fact spren don't need to breath (even if we don't hear her thought about this.) Maybe it's showing she isn't as attached to her spren as Kaladin. We can theorize about what it means, but the fact (i) Shallan clung to Adolin and lost hold of Pattern and (ii) Shallan has a vastly different reaction to losing hold of her spren than Kaladin, are things which did happened, so are open to interpretation as to their meaning. This is something which is complained about a lot with regards to the Jasnah and Elhokar deaths in particular, and I agree that neither was handled with a lot of emotion. (Not totally disregarded - there is definitely mention in the books, but not treated with a ton of emotional weight.) Do lack of expected reactions/thoughts in a PoV mean something though? Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. There have been arguments (not here but other places where I saw this complained about) that neither Jasnah nor Elhokar was a main character, so others' reactions to their deaths were only used when needed, i.e. Navani's journal and missing signs of the Parshendi changing tactics related to grief over Jasnah's death or Kaladin's comatose reaction to Moash killing Elhokar. To point out an obvious "lack of reaction means something" moment, there is Jasnah's non-reaction to Shallan stealing her soulcaster. I agree with you it's very hard to prove a negative - it's always better evidence when you have the benefit of an explicit passage rather than just the absence of anything on point. (Adolin's feelings for Shallan fall into this category for me. We have no evidence from his PoV that he has strong feelings for Shallan, but it's just absence of any strong feelings rather than Adolin explicitly thinking that he doesn't.) In my mind, it's still an open point until we have evidence one way or another, but that doesn't mean the absence of something can't be used as evidence; it's still proof that the author decided to not include something (intentionally or not.) It's just not as strong of evidence as something which directly addresses an issue, because as you point out, it may not mean anything. I'm actually not sure if you're a big Adolin fan? And are you saying this is why you're OK with Adolin being in a romance with someone not totally devoted to him/where he doesn't show feelings? (This was the point of the post of mine you quoted.) If so, I see this as being a subset of "Shadolin is good to keep Adolin in the story more" so that's good I was on the right track about why some Adolin fans are so willing to accept a romance which is not-so-satisfying from an Adolin perspective! Where does this come from? We see Kaladin in WoK flashbacks as being fascinated with drawings of human bodies (which is very akin to Shallan's interest in natural history actually.) Is there something I forget where Kaladin is anti-art? I wholeheartedly agree with this. Kaladin (as a character) got nothing from the arc. He got something from the chasms as an example of judging a lighteyes before knowing more of their story, but there was no reason to keep it going from a character-development perspective. The hypocrisy of "Kaladin has depression and shouldn't be in a relationship" coupled with "it's great Shallan got married to Adolin" drives me batty! Also the idea (as @SLNC pointed out) that Kaladin is the overprotective one, when Adolin is the one shown on the page annoying Shallan with his over-protectiveness. (This does continue into OB though in milder form, such as the beginning of Chapter 110, A Million Stars. "Shallan put her freehand on the frame of the open cargo door and leaned out over the churning depths. Adolin tried to tug her back, but she remained in place.") Notably, in the Re-Shephir confrontation, Shallan is channeling and using her difficult past to make her stronger. (This is one of my favorite Shallan passages ever, so I'm going to re-quote is below .) Shallan then realizes Re-Shephir is going to learn all of her (Shallan's) secrets ("know her completely, discover each and every one of her secrets"), since Shallan is so open at that moment, and Shallan loses her "ferocity and determination" until she decides to lie ("So she lied... She'd always been that way. She would continue that way forever.") I don't think it's any coincidence that after this Shallan huddles in her room for a day (note: I believe I read somewhere this was a week in either the alpha or beta version, but changed as readers found it unrealistic Shallan would remain holed up for so long after Jasnah's return) and then starts fracturing even more distinctly. I think this exposure of "herself" and subsequent decision to solve her doubt (or perceived shortcomings) by lying was quite detrimental to her mental health. Shallan doesn't regain the ability to face her painful memories until Thaylen City, and at that point she explicitly needs Veil and Radiant in order to do so, as her illusions start to fail when she Lightweaves her mother until Veil and Radiant emerge and grab her hands. (OB, Ch. 120, The Spear That Would Not Break, pg. 1149 US kindle edition)
  31. 13 points
    DIE SHALLADIN DIE Thank goodness. That was... Amazing Wit you bastard. Attracting a cryptic... Dalinar... Sort of ascended? Amaram totally did the double weilding thing. 2 new Windrunners. Storms I loved Lopens oath. Loved it. So much. That was HILARIOUS. And dalinars struggles... Holy cow. I nearly cried. renarin and a corrupted yet good Spren? jez was who we thought he was, and FREAKING MOASH KILLED HIM? I AM GOING TO STRANGLE UOU MOASH Taln. Let it be known. Taln is my man. Insult him at your own risk. Szeth. Was awesome. as was lift. Storms this was stuff I didn't expect until book 5! Im glad Kaladin failed to find his fourth oath. Would have felt repetitive. I would like to see some more growth there. Also, HA to the Shalladin shippers. Also, Adolins sword? If he's not going to heal it then I don't know what will. He's awesome with that sword. This book was amazing. I need to reread that letter. im almost underwhelmed by the secret of the Recreance. But at the same time... also, Taran is going full evil. Fantastic. Siblings of the Stormfather? Flying ships? I AM SO EXCITEEEEEEEE I WANT FLYING SHIPS TO BOMBARD ODIUM. So many awesome things in this book. What broke Jasnah? shadesmar was awesome. Renarin. Things. Epicness. Can I even describe the experience of reading this book? It was so DAMNATION good.
  32. 12 points
    Understandable, but Sanderson chose to make the romantic plot an integral part of Shallan's character development, so it must be discussed if we want to discuss Shallan in Oathbringer. There is no way around it. Or the even less trodden path of a marriage failing, because it wasn't built on the most solid foundation in the first place. Radiant was created in exactly the same way as Veil was created. Veil was created for Shallan to infiltrate the Ghostbloods, which she couldn't do as Shallan, to tackle situations, that Shallan couldn't bear. Radiant was created for Shallan to train with Adolin, which she couldn't do as Shallan, to tackle situations, that Shallan couldn't bear. Radiant then took over Shallan's complete Radiant duties, aside from Lightweaving a map or two. Veil took over Shallan's spying duties. Shallan certainly became less brave. The situation with Re-Shephir you describe happened right at the end of Part 1 of Oathbringer, which was right at the beginning of Shallan's downward spiral, before Jasnah came back and berated her for her behavior. By the time they reached Kholinar, she was barely able to function in those situations without Veil and Radiant. After Jasnah berated Shallan for having wandering eyes and for trying to end her wardship, Shallan began to box off those perceived flaws/shortcomings she'd been gathering, while alone and forced by circumstance, to her masks. They were created to deal with them. She laid the foundation for that before in Part 1 (see quote), because of her desire to flee her hurting self after Pattern's revelation at the end of WoR, true, but the turning point was Jasnah. She began to hone Shallan into this "prim and proper maiden" And a WoB, that strengthens my claim. Veil isn't some kind of new personality. Veil doesn't even exist. It is all just in Shallan's head, because she has mental blocks to do what she actually has to do. Then Jasnah came along and told her how she should be (don't for get your causal and be my ward), so she becomes that person as Shallan, but now is dependent on Veil and Radiant to do her other duties, because in her head, she doesn't allow herself to do them as Shallan anymore. She makes Veil and Radiant different personalities, but in the end they are all just figments of her mind. This conflict in between of not knowing who she wants to be and getting told who she should be is making her lose her grip on reality. Also, Cryptics, called liespren for a reason, don't get just attracted to artists, but to lies. Thing is, that every work of art is a lie. Even a portrait of someone who exists isn't a reflection of that person's existence but a lie, a resemblence, of that person. There is a correlation between Lightweavers and artists, true, but only because artists are often the best liars. Good question. I have hoped, that they'd talk about it, but they didn't. Still, we don't know, if Helaran was the reason Shallan began to be so toxic towards Kaladin. She also never thought about it again. It is still one of the bigger mysteries. Ah, the good old superficial characterization of Kaladin. She got those feelings, she had, after she has realized, that underneath all that gloom lies a very caring, passionate and determined man. You have to take that into account, otherwise your chain of causation falls apart. Also Kaladin is a far cry from Lin Davar. Where Lin loses his temper nearly erratically, Kaladin is angry, but has "leashed that anger", he dominates it. Shallan herself says that. Kaladin is much more, than broody and gloomy, but sure take the moral high ground and lecture me about bias. Don't worry, I got you.
  33. 12 points
    I've mentioned this a couple times before, but I think I need to post it. Shallan's final truth will be "I am Shallan Davar." This is based on the whole "I am the Law" thing, and possibly "I am Unity" being the words for the fifth oath, even if he didn't actually swear it yet.
  34. 12 points
    Rambling, not having read anything in shard, and kind of incoherent after 2 days in la la world. Dang, now its over. Can I mention the work of art that was Kaladin, Shallan and Adolin. Together they were just perfect, and complimented each other beautifully, one picking up the slack when another fell down. Adolin is a stunning character. I wish there had been more Nightblood VIVENNA. I was such an IDIOT I did not notice who she was until the dinner chat she had with Kaladin when they put the cards on the table. Ungh! Also, congratulations to Taravangian! After much, much work he finally managed to perform his goal of the Diagram superceding the Sons of Honor as the dumbest smart Secret Society in Roshar. Totally going to make a meme of this one. I felt quite bloodthirstily satisfied with the path Moash took. He irritated me on book 1. He annoyed me in book 2. And now this in book 3. There is a fierce satisfaction in knowing you had correctly judged a bad person even while everyone around them adored him. For a moment, Unity, I almost thought Dalinar had reassembled Honor ^^. Also, yes Dalinar was a monster, and yes Evi was a moron. Sneaking into a rival city when her husband was clearly firmly on the kill and not listen point, sigh. Elhokar made an amazing character recovery in OB. Then he died . And he was bonding a cryptic! AND JEZRIEN IS DEAD All Hail Queen Jasnah The Skybreakers are an interesting order. Although Nale is incomprehensible. "I have fought Odium actively for several thousand years. I have fought Odium more passively for 4000 years. So I'm now going to decide to side with him because I've decided his cronies deserve this land for no clear reason. Since its not as If I haven't known they were here before humans for the past 6000 years." The should use the spren more to spy, hope they investigate T in detail now. Who just hurried to spill something when he saw Szeth about to do it. CAN'T BELIEVE WE DIDNT SEE A CONVERSATION BETWEEN DALINAR AND SZETH. "You killed my brother" "Yes" "You tried to kill me. Actually were about 10 seconds away from it" "Yes" "Now you wan't to serve me ultimately" "Yes" "I need some valium" "Where should I get it?" Ash will be amazing to read Renarin was indeed bonded to a voidspren as suspected. Although not sure it counts as voidspren, is corrupted void? I called Dalinar was meant to be Odium's champion fairly early on Dalinar was touched by Cultivation herself, hmmm, poor Dalinar, with all 3 gods fighting over who gets more of him. Dalinar's powers were...wow. So many radiants and bridge 4 swearing ideals. Shallan and Adolin wedding. Maxal should be happy. Although I was kind of really shipping Kadolin halfway through. Alas Lift was awesome. I can see Edgedancers as the glue of all the orders. When the coalition fell appart it was amazing. "I'm concerned about what our ancestors did 7000 years ago, so I'm not going to fight as we descend from murderers." "I'm concerned the Alethi seek to conquer us in the next few years, so we will leave the coalition" Dudes...not to be the rain in your parade but the chances of you having a kingdom in a few years are small if you join together, and nil if you don't. So point is...? And if you are going to stop fighting because there are dishonorable people in your family tree then just don't get out of bed in the first place. Life before Death. The living over the dead. The present over the past. And harsh as it sounds, the descendants that own the world over the ancestors that once walked it. If anyone actually read all this messy chaos I wrote props to you. Going to have a nap then fully delve into 17th shard.
  35. 12 points
    After treating myself for Christmas to 7 of Brandon's books, at last I found time for Shadows of Self and Bands of Mourning. Oh, yeah. I'm not going to start into the EPIC proportions the Cosmere is getting. I came here to talk about love. I'm a woman but I never liked what are called "romance stories" much (or at all). I like action, and I like romance within the action, and friendship, and brotherly-sisterly-fatherly-motherly emotions, and epics... inside the action. Those feelings are part of life, not the whole of life itself, and I can't stand a story where romance is everything. I can't stand a protagonist for which romance is everything: I needed to pass exams, find jobs, pay for things, go out with friends... I had a crush, but if it was a bad idea, I could wait until I was over it. Love was not ALL of life. It was a part of life, and art that does not focus in all parts of life is limited... and boring. Plus, romance stories or movies, or especially TV series, were based in the fact that the lovers to be were idiots with ZERO ability to communicate, talk to each other and explain what the problem was. Those stories demanded from me the following of an idiotic plot, or to respect or care for characters that were acting stupidly. I wanted to scream: "TELL HIM!" or "TELL HER!" Booooring... the reason why the most enjoyable romances appeared in action or adventure movies and series is that they didn't have as much time to make the plot stupid and have the characters hide info from one another so they could be separated forcefully. Not to mention the fact that all those stories are about sexual tension or falling in love. It's rare to find a love story. It's easy to find a story about falling in love. Most instances are about unresolved sexual tension. But, love? It's rare. The best love story in a screen I've ever seen is in the first 15 minutes of UP! Wall-E's and EVE's is beautiful, but again, it's a story about falling in love, not about love (unless you count love for life, which is another type). Love goes beyond the falling, beyond the fascination, beyond the magic bubble. Falling is looking at each other in awe: love is looking together in the same direction. When you have a crush, you are on a high when the other person is in the room. When you love, the other person is like your arm or your leg: you are not fascinated by them, but you start feeling bad if s/he's not close. It's a completely different feeling, and it's hard to express or to describe or narrate, and hard to find. Sexual tension is much easier to sell. Love requires frankness, and lots of communication, and negotiation, and admitting the quirks of the other, and learning from the other, and even, whenever possible, looking at the world through the eyes of the other person and see beauty and wonder where you would never have even considered to look for it. I love the action, the magic, the politics and everything that the Cosmere offers. But after finishing The Bands of Mourning, I have also been immersed in one of the best love stories (not the crush, not the falling, not the sexual tension: love) I have ever had the pleasure to live. THIS was love. For real. As it really is, as it really grows, as it needs to be nurtured, as it changes people so they grow closer to one another, as they make little concessions to one another's quirks, as they accept each other's flaws and traits, yet try to learn from each other and become better people. I've rarely seen love in art so well portrayed. And I just had to tell someone.
  36. 11 points
    AG4/AN1 - Day 9: Uniter Divided; Dividers Unite Not long ago... Nolan traced his hands over the inscription at the front of his book. “Life before death,” he murmured softly. “Strength before weakness, journey before destination...” His thoughts meandered into meanings and contexts, and for a few minutes he entirely failed to notice that the sphere he was holding to illuminate his work had gone dun. He stared at it. The highstorm hadn’t been so long ago that it should be dun already. “How...?” He pulled another sphere from his pocket, but it was dun, too. And all the others in his pocket. Um... This was in the book. Nolan knew what was happening, it just... couldn’t be. He went to check his pouch, which was hanging by the door. Still bright. Almost fearfully, he drew out a sphere and closed his eyes. What had the book said. Breathe. Nolan breathed, and he became alive. He laughed for hours and hours, later, interspersed with furious rereading. After all this time, he was a Knight Radiant! The very people he had been trying to study, and he could have firsthand experience with them. What’s it called when you’re the source of your own scholarship? he wondered idly. Is it a primary source or a.. zeroth... source? He had so many experiments to do. He heard cries from outside. Another kill discovered. Perhaps he could even use his power to help, to find these storming murderers and rid the village of them once and for all. Tonight... Nolan stood warily across from the murderers, who had chased him down and separated him from the group. He inhaled Stormlight, hoping it would help, somehow. I’m a scholar, not a soldier! he thought. How am I supposed to defeat trained, blooded warriors? Why did the Almighty ever put me into this? I just want to study... But it seemed that the Almighty had a different fate in mind for him. He had been made a Bondsmith, and told to unite. He had failed. Nolan closed his eyes for a brief moment, prayed, and charged. He wished his battle cry could have been something noble - “Life before death,” or “All praise the Almighty,” or even “Scholarship!” Instead, it was a sort of buzzing, wavery “AAAaaaAAAaargh!” Two weeks of studying Stormlight couldn’t do much against murderers with weapons and the training to use them. Nolan was chopped into at least five separate pieces before he touched a single one of them. The glow surrounding him winked out, and only darkness remained. Ivory Dragonfly was killed. They were a Village Bondsmith. Day 9 has begun. It will end in 42 hours, at 10pm GMT on the 9th February. Player List 1. Amethyst Scorpion 2. Azure Mouse 3. Amber Vulture - Villager 4. Charcoal Hyena - Cannoc - Villager 5. Chartreuse Penguin - Villager 6. Coral Swan - Elyle - Village Lightweaver 7. Cream Tuatara - Villager 8. Emerald Falcon - Aldrick - Villager 9. Fuschia Ostrich 10. Indigo Weasel - Village Elsecaller 11. Ivory Dragonfly - Nolan - Village Bondsmith 12. Magenta Albatross 13. Mauve Crocodile 14. Melon Dingo - Quentisan - Village Edgedancer 15. Mint Heron 16. Onyx Flamingo - Squawk - Village Lightweaver 17. Opal Lion - Villager 18. Oxblood Beagle - Jai - Village Willshaper 19. Pearl Chameleon 20. Plum Rhinoceros - Villager 21. Quartz Zebra 22. Saffron Iguana - Emalia - Village Lightweaver 23. Sage Kangaroo 24. Salmon Meerkat - Village Bondsmith 25. Sapphire Elephant 26. Scarlet Octopus - Village Edgedancer 27. Sunburst Toucan - Vanna 28. Taupe Gecko - Villager 29. Turquoise Gorilla - Village Dustbringer 30. Violet Axolotl - Villager
  37. 11 points
    Chapter 14 | @ Kaladin Chapter 14 | @ Khen (the female voidbringer) to the male: Chapter 14 | @ Kal watching the voidbringers: Chapter 13 Chapter 15 | @ Adolin & Shallan discussing the Urithiru murders: Chapter 15 | Shallan's mental image when Adolin offers to train her: Chapter 15 | @ Shallan Chapters 1 - 15 | All the surgebinders (but especially Kaladin):
  38. 10 points
    Starting this topic for a few reasons. The first is to share a few pics of some of the incredible loot/swag that has been released over the years. I haven't seen images of some of the items I have on the forum or even google so I thought others might like to see them. My personal favourite Sanderloot is still the Szeth cut-out but the Assassin and Warrior tokens from GenCon look amazing. Another is to see what else I am missing from the collection. I know I am missing a few items like the Rithmatist chalk bag, Windrunner pin, Obliteration cut-out and WoK epic bookmark but it would be great if someone would post images of these items and any other Sanderloot they have. Located in Australia, all the books are hardcover first/first and all but Edgedancer and HoA are signed. All 3 Leatherbounds are numbered and so are BoM, AU, Oathbringer, Legion + Skin Deep and Snapshot. Mistborn and WoA both have early style signatures.
  39. 10 points
    AG4/AN1 - Night 3: The Study of Art Cream Tuatara didn’t even know what a Tuatara was. Just that they were it. Did they need to know more specifics? Not at all, because they were the Tuatara so the description of Tuatara was them. Makes sense, ya know? Or should hopefully do, because otherwise no-one really would know what a Tuatara was. But to get to the point of why you’re reading this, The Cream Tuatara is dead. To know why it happened, it would be best to ask one of the people that y’know, actually did the deed itself. If you ask me further about who exactly did it, then I’d tell ya to stop pestering me and look at the helpful tally below. Somedays I think that you people don’t even read the write-up itself. Below is an artistic rendition of how it happened: C.T was strutting their stuff downtown when someone hollered at them, saying “Yo C.T what you doin?” “I’m just strutting you know? Always gotta strut when you’re in the mood.” “Yeah well me and the homies decided that we ain’t about that strut life. We’re more about doing the shuffle.” “Ah that’s fair enough. Enjoy doing the shuffle then I guess, I ain’t one to judge.” “Well just in case you change your mind, we’re gonna have to eliminate you, so sorry I guess.” And before C.T could strut their way away, they were gone. If you don’t think that’s artistic enough, then I am sorry to inform you that I am not doing anything that creative in the future, so the feedback will not affect me that much. If I was though, I would almost certainly get annoyed at that and maybe do something to you in return. So really it’s in your best interest to compliment me on my write-ups no matter the content inside them, though that might make me annoyed at that and then do something to you in return. Guess you gotta take a chance, or don’t do anything at all. I’d probably do nothing at all in this case. Anyway, it’s the night now so make sure to go to bed and get a good night’s sleep, or you might lynch another villager again. Cream Tuatara has died! They were a Villager. Vote Count Cream Tuatara (7): Amber Vulture, Amethyst Scorpion, Onyx Flamingo, Ivory Dragonfly, Sunburst Toucan, Mauve Crocodile, Sapphire Elephant Oxblood Beagle (4): Mint Heron, Turquoise Gorilla, Azure Mouse, Indigo Weasel Onyx Flamingo (3): Sage Kangaroo, Quartz Zebra, Taupe Gecko Amber Vulture (2): Chartreuse Penguin, Magenta Albatross Night Three has begun. It will end in 24 hours time, at 10pm GMT on the 22nd January. Player List 1. Amethyst Scorpion 2. Azure Mouse 3. Amber Vulture 4. Charcoal Hyena - Cannoc - Villager 5. Chartreuse Penguin 6. Coral Swan - Elyle - Village Lightweaver 7. Cream Tuatara - Villager 8. Emerald Falcon - Aldrick 9. Fuschia Ostrich 10. Indigo Weasel 11. Ivory Dragonfly - Nolan 12. Magenta Albatross 13. Mauve Crocodile 14. Melon Dingo - Quentisan - Village Edgedancer 15. Mint Heron 16. Onyx Flamingo - Squawk 17. Opal Lion - Villager 18. Oxblood Beagle - Jai 19. Pearl Chameleon 20. Plum Rhinoceros 21. Quartz Zebra 22. Saffron Iguana - Emalia - Village Lightweaver 23. Sage Kangaroo 24. Salmon Meerkat 25. Sapphire Elephant 26. Scarlet Octopus - Village Edgedancer 27. Sunburst Toucan - Vanna 28. Taupe Gecko 29. Turquoise Gorilla 30. Violet Axolotl
  40. 10 points
    Dalinar crashing people's dreams during highstorms be like
  41. 10 points
  42. 10 points
    Peter told me a while ago that "I should be terrified of what happens in book five" (something of that sort). Soooo yeah... I imagine it will be really bad.
  43. 9 points
    Hey guys, There has been a lot of talk of what Oathbringer has done wrong or what differed from what people expected. But Through my second reread I am find SO MANY moments that touched me and were done so right! Let's share what moments or arcs really affected you emotionally or intellectually and keep it postitive! ---- To start with (Thanks DreamStorm) spoilered for length I really loved this scene where Dalinar comes in to the scribe meeting to support Renarin, the way it describes him you can tell it is not comfortable for him to be there but he wants to support his son and be there for him in his desires, I feel that maybe dalinar realizes he wasnt always encouraging of renarins desires and is trying to make up for it and I loved this interaction through Shallan's POV.
  44. 9 points
    This brings up I think the best summation of opinions on this plot. There is a large subset of people, particularly on tumblr and reddit, who don't consider the decision to be awkward, or the emotions to be mismanaged. Those people think this was all intentional, and everything is fine now. What a lot of people on this thread are worried about is that they're right, that these things will go nowhere. That's the primary issue people seem to have. The issue is that we're worried it wasn't hinting to events in the sequel, but instead is meant to be taken at face value. Many people here would be happy to have the bolded issues be present in the sequels. We're more worried about what happens if they're not.
  45. 9 points
    Dalinar tells King T a story.
  46. 9 points
    This did break my heart a little bit.
  47. 9 points
    When you realize Mraize's shoulder chicken is a weapon of mass destruction.
  48. 8 points
    Kharsis returned from the Thoughtful Skyeel so exhausted that he barely had the energy to mumble hello to Elion and Helina before faceplanting in the guest bed. — Once again, he was in the room with the armchairs. To his side lay hot mugs of tea, and biscuits fresh out of the tin. He watched from above, both ghostly spectre and as active participant, Kharsis and Sonder, traveling peddler and shardship’s engineer. The last thing he remembered was filling out paperwork, being attacked by a Shardblade, and then...nothing. Where was he? Not the ship’s medbay, that was for sure. KHAS Sonder looked around at the other eight men around him; he didn’t recognise any of them, but he felt that he should. “So,” Sonder said. “Uh, what are we here for, exactly?” KASIMAR Something nudged Kharsis to disentangle himself from Sonder — to reach out further, farther. So he did. KAIM The world shifted around him, and he was back in Rennan, talking with Drelan for the first time in years. And not. Some of his consciousness remained in the room with the armchairs as Drelan described the recent murders. KAI “Oh,” Kharsis said. Goosebumps rose on the back of his neck, both here and from above. He knew who had committed those murders now. “Who died?” KASSEL ERIKELL “The first sign,” someone in the room with the hot mugs of tea said, “Is when someone inexplicably drops dead.” KASIR What? That startled Kharsis; it seemed like someone knew what was going on. He shifted his attention back to the room. SAMUEL KESSEN “That’s your sign to get out of there, as fast as you can,” Asim said. KADDAR “Not always,” he corrected. “By the time the Mayor dropped dead, I was in it up to my neck. The next thing I knew, I was a corrupted agent of evil—and had always been.” Good Guy Fain, he had been. Kharsis — no, Kaim, that was this man’s name — smiled at the memory and puffed on his pipe, blowing out a series of smoke rings. “Can’t run away from that.” KARNAD Those last words pricked at Kharsis’s conscience and he shifted uncomfortably from his spot looking down, remembering how he had run away from Elion at the bar. To distract himself, he looked more closely at the men in the room. He still had no idea what was going on, but parts of the conversation seemed familiar, somehow. KAIAN Sonder. Kai. Kasir. Kaim. Asim. Kaddar. Karnad. Khas. Kasimar. Their names jumped into his mind, and with them, some of their histories. This was their reunion, of sorts. SHI KWAIRAN As he thought, the room with the armchairs almost slipped away from him, and he sat at a dinner table with Elion, Helina, Larsah, and Adani. It had been their reunion too. But Kharsis already knew what had happened there, and so he fought to return to the room with the nine men. KIRIAS “We’re connected,” Kaddar said. “The nature of the connection is difficult to explain. After all, at first glance, one might think we are all terribly different.” He gestured at each of them in turn. “Thief-taker, fallen from grace.” KOSCHEI JERZY “Don’t say that word,” Karnad muttered. KARSTEN ARNKELL In the other world, the normal world, a little girl at the dinnertable asked, “Where’re you from, Uncle?” Kharsis could almost hear the implicit, who are you? contained in her question. SONDER KESSLIGH “Worldhopper and peddler. Sailor. Courier. King’s Wit and right hand. And, of course, a spy.” Kaddar said, favouring Asim with a knowing smile. Asim returned the gesture. “Intuitively, very different. But there is a tale of blind men: each of them touching a different part of an elephant. ‘The elephant is like a study pillar,’ claims the first man. ‘No, you are mistaken,’ cries the second. ‘The elephant is like a solid pipe.’ A third disagrees. ‘All of you are wrong,’ he claims. ‘The elephant is like a wall.’ A fourth declares the elephant to be like a hand-fan. And at last, a mighty king and a wise man, for the two are often separable, comes by and listens to the clamour. And at last, he says, ‘All of you are right.’” He looks at them: at each of them. “The blind men cannot understand this. The truth, the king claims, has many aspects. Just as each of the blind men has touched one part of the elephant and claimed to know the entire elephant from it.” KASSIEN ESTVARIL From his view at the top of the room, Kharsis’s mouth fell open in an O. He’d heard this before, or something like this. The details of last night’s dream returned to him: there, a strange man with a spear had asked him some riddle involving an elephant — Kaddar had asked him some riddle involving an elephant. KARNAN This was the elephant, the thing with many aspects. All of these men — Sonder, Kai, Kasir, Kaim, Asim, Kaddar, Karnad, Khas, Kasimar — they were part of this thing, this elephant that sought to know itself. KASTHER The room threatened to slip away from him again, but Kharsis held on, latching onto...someone. Asim. The professional one. KJARTAN “...you see, the first trap is to actually sign up for their games,” he said. TENTH OF THE DUSK / KAIKOA “Who is this ‘they’ you refer to?” Kasir wanted to know, leaning forward eagerly. VALENS Asim made a vague gesture. “Oh, you know. Those nefarious masterminds who ended up murdering each and every one of you. If you refuse to play their Games, they can’t win. They can’t kill you. You’ll go on living, exactly like you want to. You’ll be happy. That’s exactly what I do: why, the other day, I was delivering messages from the embassy in Arelon to the embassy in Duladel, when I stopped to spend the night at a trading post. Immediately, when I saw that flayed corpse in the snow, I said to myself, ‘Asim, old friend, you are a professional; this is clearly meant to hook you and drag you into one of Their Games, and you are not getting involved.’ So I ran,” he concluded. “And that’s how I stayed alive.” ASIM The words were familiar in his mouth. After all, wasn’t that how Kharsis himself had survived those early days? For years he’d repeated those words over and over to himself, to drown out the guilt of leaving Elion to fend for himself. Kharsis ran. That’s what he did. KAMSIL Not anymore, Kharsis reminded himself. You didn’t run from this Game or whatever it is Asim’s talking about. SHUOS KANSEUN “So,” Kaim said, dubiously, “You’re saying the way to survive is to refuse to play Their games.” KASIM Asim nodded, proudly. “Yes.” KHARSIS “Actually,” Kai said, “I really don’t see it, Asim. I mean,” Kai glanced at the room and forged on, idly stroking his ferret. “Would any of us even be alive, if it weren’t for the Game? The Game created us, Asim. Or at least we were created for it. We’ve all got some sort of purpose, I reckon. And if we ran away from the Game, would we even live? I mean, it’s better to live, for even a few days, than to never have lived at all, isn’t it?” “To have lived,” Sonder said. “And to have loved.” From above, Kharsis nodded his ghostly head. After the events of the past few days...he rather thought he agreed. “Yes,” Kaddar said, quietly. “I would choose life, over a thousand evils. But I think most of us would, wouldn’t we? Dying was never in my plan, and I was fortunate that I was able to live. But to choose to die, knowing what you are giving up, but to do it for a higher reason…” he shrugged, looking at Sonder. “I think that takes a decent amount of courage. Ivare enim euge.” That was all? That was it? They were...things, characters, created for the same Game? Kharsis had circled all the way around the elephant now, had felt the major parts of it — the trunk, the tail, the sides, the ears. And yet he felt like he was missing a major piece of it. He screwed his eyes shut in concentration and reached deeper. KASIMIR The elephant, the thing with many aspects, the thing that all of them were part of — it resisted him, leaping and bucking. But he grasped it firmly, until the world reformed out of masses of light blue. — I am the last sleep of kings, the shadow of ravens, A young man sat in front of a computer, typing furiously, racing against some unseen deadline. Kharsis didn’t know him, and yet...this man — his life, his quirks, his personality, his essence — was written into Kharsis’s bones. Mine is the bitter wound-thorn, the word-hoard. I am the giver of wise counsel, the broken tree; “Bloody Sympathisers,” the man groused. “Sod them and their last-minute hammers…” Fettered by word-chains of my own forging. My domain is the spear-storm. With bold strategem The man’s words made no sense to Kharsis, but he could feel their significance somehow. It had something to do with the Game, the Game that connected him and the other characters, the Game that was the reason they existed. I outwit those who sought to deceive me. I have cast my defiance before the Doomherald, It was 4:00 AM in the morning, and the man was still awake. He had other obligations, Kharsis knew. Textbooks to read, papers to write, students to teach. And yet he stayed awake, hammering away at the keyboard, for this. For the Game, and the battle of minds, and the people met, and the friendships forged. Bent knee only once to my slayer and king. I am the exultation of the spear-clash, “Have to finish this before rollover,” Kasimir muttered. “I will be so angry if the Symps kill off Kharsis. I want him to survive, damnit.” Unbroken, unyielding; I am the shining word That is my own unsullied name. Ten blades A chant rang in Kharsis’s ears, drowning out all other sound. Shattered against me and still I remain. My voice is the thunder of the ruined city, He had reached too far, he knew that now. I bear the songs of the departed and forgotten. The shield of those who yet draw breath. The world of the man writing on the computer faded to light blue, disappearing. In fire I have perished. I am the heart-binder, The knower of secrets, the king's wit. The room with the armchairs, too, faded. Name me wolf-riddler and foe-thorn; Master of herbs, and silvertongue. The vision slipped away from him. — Kharsis woke up to the sun shining into his eyes. He grumbled and blinked blearily, rubbing his aching back. Had he dreamt while asleep? Yes, he must have; he remembered something to do with people he might have met, once, but more the he reached for details the more he lost, like sand slipping through his fingers.
  49. 8 points
    I actually loved this whole paragraph, but I didn't want to quote it in its entirety for brevity's sake. I think you made a good point here (and it is one which I targeted in my...rather lengthy post). Brandon isn't a romance author, but I feel that romances are something he does exceptionally well when you compare him to the vast majority of fantasy authors out there, most of which take the angle of "Hey, these two are together. They like each other--here's the obligatory scene where they hook up to show you that they are an item." Brandon's writing is not like that. Like many of his other plotting and character arcs, he builds toward something kind of like a rolling stone. (Wax/Steris, the Parshendi going into stormform, the revelation at the end of WoA) In my experience, while his romances may seem clunky sometimes (especially compared to the more...intricate...plots of romance novels), I have found them to be quite satisfying and definable, in a manner that leaves very little doubt about whether or not a couple has been established. The fact that there is so much arguing even still, months after OB's release, and that almost every reader I've seen has been dissatisfied with the romantic arc between Adolin and Shallan, tells me that it's not decisive at all, and I don't think Brandon meant it to be. Maybe my opinion will change with a second read-through, but the more I think about it, the more I think we're meant to be dissatisfied about it. As you said, Brandon loves to foreshadow. Why would he drop all of these subtle similarities and hints between Kal and Shallan, if her marriage to Adolin is the be-all end-all? To further that point, as someone who appreciates a good romantic plot (but doesn't read romance novels), I have been, since early in their relationship in Words of Radiance, extremely dissatisfied with how Adolin and Shallan's relationship has been portrayed. It is not romantic. It's not even really cute. I feel that Adolin really does like Shallan, but I've never seen anything in the literature that tells me that this couple is in love. I have, however, seen a lot in the literature that tells me that this couple is trying to act like they're in love, and there's a big difference between those two. Again, great paragraph. It's really because people like Adolin--I mean, really, if Adolin were not in the picture, if he never existed, would people be so upset about Kaladin and Shallan getting together? I doubt it. These same people that complain about "main characters just dither about their relationship the whole time" overlook Elend/Vin and Raodan/Sarene. Both of these relationships had defining viewpoint characters that were in love with each other, yet they never got in the way of the plot, so I don't understand why having Kaladin and Shallan in a relationship is a problem, when those two were not. Below here has nothing to do with anything I have previously commented on. These are my own thoughts. I heard something interesting the other day with regards to this triangle that I didn't understand. People like to tout on here that Adolin is just this perfect guy for Shallan, that he just gets her and he understands her and that he can help her, and that Kaladin is so bad for her and is encouraging her bad habits and fracturing mental state. Based on what I've read in Oathbringer (and to a lesser extent, Words of Radiance), how is that conclusion being drawn? Because what I read in Oathbringer was Adolin actually furthering the problems of Shallan's mental state, not helping them. Kaladin aside, who I think was largely unavailable emotionally to be able to help Shallan, how is Adolin's behavior to Shallan actually beneficial to her mental state, when he is actually encouraging the problem, as Kaladin has been accused of doing?
  50. 8 points
    See, but I don't even know if Adolin wants to love all of Shallan. He treats Veil like a drinking buddy. Sure, I'll admit, that both he and Shallan think, that Veil is a different entity from Shallan, but we know better, that, what Veil represents, is as much a part of Shallan as her scholarly ability. Could Adolin even see this side of Shallan as lovable? Accept, that this is a part of her? Would he have fallen in love with her, if she hadn't shown him just a mask, which she openly admits she did? The way I see it: Shallan has an identity problem (heh, hear me out, please ), kind of like Kaladin had in WoR. He wasn't sure if he really wanted to embrace becoming a Knight Radiant, because for him, that would have meant becoming lighteyed. He was torn between his desire to protect and his hate for lighteyes, which led him to kill Syl until he had an epiphany at the end of the book. With Shallan it is similar, I think, as everyone is calling her a Radiant, but she herself doesn't identify as one, because all it ever did was bring her unhappiness and pain. She is more than capable, but not willing, going so far to even split of the parts of her personality, that give her the ability to a different personality called Radiant. Shallan just seeks happiness, but is afraid of the pain of attaining the happiness through acceptance of her past. I keep going back to what Tyn said: Shallan is basically lying to herself, and believes those lies, by creating this dream of just being happy with Adolin, while she actually needs to be a Knight Radiant, a Lightweaver, to be precise, which walk the path of attaining self-awareness. She is doing the complete opposite. She is denying being self-aware by pushing away every unwanted feeling (including her attraction to Kaladin) towards those personas she has created and alienated from her core personality. She keeps her personas and thinks she can juggle it. Be the Lightweaver by being those personas sometimes and being the optimized Shallan, who is the happy wife to Adolin. But, here's the thing, to be self-aware also includes to be aware of ones faults and failures, which is the quintessence of what Wit is trying to tell her. Shallan is all of it. Optimized Shallan, Veil, Radiant, her failures and her pain. And even with all of these perceived 'bad' things, she is still a wonderful woman, that deserves to exist. That isn't useless. I think, that Pattern's bond to Shallan is slowly, but surely dissolving and fraying, the signs are there (He warns her once, drowsily I might add and becomes very distant during Oathbringer). Right now, Shallan is ignoring it, because she has chosen momentary happiness with Adolin, will it last? We'll see, but she can't stay a Lightweaver like that, because she's actively working against an Ideal, that she killed her mother, that she spoke, which brings me to the parallelism with Kaladin Kaladin was torn between his hate for lighteyes and being a Knight Radiant. Shallan is torn between the hate for herself and being a Knight Radiant. It is just, that the she took the easy way out, but while doing so cemented herself in this position, because Adolin doesn't know, what she really is. Her happiness right now relies on a third party and not herself. A partner should always boost happiness, but never be the sole reason of why you're happy. Edit: @Stormlightning Thank you for your post. There a lot of good points in it, but I have the feeling, that there is a lot of idealization going on. I agree, that this marriage would probably have been a great thing, if this had been a pure romance novel, but it isn't. You see, Shallan's main function, as a character, is not to be Adolin's or Kaladin's partner, but rather be a Lightweaver. I'm worried about how this might overshadow her progress in that regard, or even, as hinted by Pattern's worry and his strange distance, completely reset it. Another big worry I have is about how one-sided this relationship is. Shallan is demanding and demanding, while not giving. This might change though. My biggest peeve though is this: Her dissociated fragments of identity are definitely a bad thing. She is suffering from a severe mental disorder and blind faith won't help that and it won't be enough. I think, there is this huge misunderstanding, that Adolin fell in love with the real Shallan, when the real Shallan is hiding behind a nice face, that she now calls Shallan, Veil and Radiant. Adolin fell in love with that face. Even worse, only a part of Shallan really reciprocates these feelings. Veil is still pining after Kaladin and doesn't accept Adolin ("He is good for you, I suppose."). Radiant is completely indifferent, as seen by how often she changes her sentiment of whether Adolin or Kaladin is a better choice. This marriage is basically the result of Shallan fracturing herself and solving her mental confusion of being attracted to both Adolin and Kaladin, by pushing the unwanted feelings for Kaladin to Veil. I think, it would have never happened so soon, if she'd been whole and able to make a conscious decision. If Shallan, Radiant and Veil are supposed to be completely different entities, then I'm very confused, because Brandon hints, that they aren't. Both with Wit's advice and during the Battle of TC.
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