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Hi all! I'm finally back - hope you all enjoyed your break from me So I've spent 2 days catching up on the 20+ pages you all wrote over the last 2 weeks (or is it 3?) and found it all a very interesting read - but far too much to comment on each point individually! Well done! Anyway, I've been re-reading over Christmas but with family dramas and other animals, I haven't finished it yet, but I've slowly been bringing together some thoughts and I'll probably share them in some detail in a week or 2. With regards to some threads here that have arisen, I have some thoughts I'd like to add: Regarding Adolin's reaction to finding out Shallan's murdering her parents; I think Adolin will be horrified initially but come to terms with the fact of the murders quite quickly, and likely be pretty decent about the whole thing. I suspect that it will be some time before Shallan confides in him (indeed I doubt it will happen in the time skip because it should be something we see on screen) and I think he will understandably be more upset about her hiding it from him for so long. He will be especially hurt if he finds out she told Kaladin about her father's death but not him. I think there are a few things that lead me to think she won't reveal the murder: Her brothers are around now and they were complicit in her father's death. She won't want them hurt by the murder so she might admit that her father is dead, but not how it happened. I think Balat in particular would be happier to put the episode behind him. She worries how Adolin will react. I don't think this is fair to Adolin - he has a right to know what she has done. On top of that she is giving him no credit. She cannot afford to be seen as a murderess by society if she is to help lead the KR (this is certainly up for debate, but I think that Alethi society will frown upon her and Adolin if she is known to have killed her parents - regardless of the curcumastances) Of the two murders, the more chilling one is definitely the murder of Lin Davar - it was planned - she tried to poison him first and had probably had the idea in the back of her mind for a long time given how long she kept the Blackbane for - it was probably a subconscious thought, but there nonetheless. It was in self-defence technically, but there is a sociopathic element to it - indeed of the 4 children present, only Shallan can act. This act has some similarities with what Adolin does with Sadeas. The difference is that Adolin shows very little remorse (he is worried about being caught, but he isn't sorry about it). Shallan on the other hand seems much more remorseful. That might just be my take on it, and not sure it matters that much. The point I am trying to make is that their actions are not so dissimilar but Shallan herself doesn't open up to Adolin. Note I am less cncerned with Tyn's murder - not only was that self defence, but given the way in which Shallan arrived on the Shattered Plains (she admits to having been shipwrecked) any sensible person would have considered that Shallan may have had to manage some very difficult situations. I don't think Adolin assumes Shallan killed or anything like that, but he isn't stupid (tho I don't consider him terribly bright either) so he must hve realised her journey couldnt have been as smooth as she implied. So why do I think Adolin will initially be horrified? Well he's normal. Shallan's reaction (ie nothing) to Adolin's declaration of his murder of Sadeas was decidedly odd. Adolin is much more grounded and stable so he'll handle the situation in a "normal" way - ie probably be horrified - though I don't think he'll get angry or condemnatory to Shallan - but he will have a strong emotional reaction - indeed it may be sympathy for her - tho I wonder if she will reject that - she is not good at "being protected". As long as he lets her get the full story out then he will likely be supportive. The issue I have is how he does it. If he thinks she is effectively possesed by Radiant and Veil rather than accepting they are part of her then he might try to encourage her to place the blame on one of her alts which is not the case because the alts only appeared in OB as a direct consequence of her 4th Ideal. Ok point 2: Shallan's personas/masks I am very much in the camp that Shallan is a sufferer of OSDD. Having re-read about 2/3rds of OB with full notetaking I am very comfortable with this as a provisional diagnosis. If we accept this diagnosis then we need to be very careful about how we term her various facets. There have been a number of ways we have covered it in this thread, but it is vital that everyone commenting understands what is meant. OSDD is a form of dissociation. It usually happens in people who experienced extreme abuse during childhood (though it is a rare condition overall and by no means the only possibly outcome of an abusive childhood). It results in a "core" personality fragmenting. It is a bit like the way Adonalsium was fractured - the shards make sense on their own (to an extent) but when viewed in context of the whole, it changes the way each shard's intent manifests. See the letter in tWoK (I think) about Odium being God's divine hatred being separarted from the context of the other intents. Shallan is currently in 3 alters known as Shallan, Veil, and Radiant. There is unlikely to be another "hidden" alter but it is technically possible. However by definition we haven't got proof. The best proof of one would be the uncoscious drawings she does of Urithiru and Nergaoul in Part 1 of OB but an alter is not necessary for those drawings to exist - she has other dissociative states she retreats to and this is most likely the result of one of those. It is very important in OSDD to understand that each alter is vital to the whole personality. Even a small fragment (eg Radiant seems the "smallest" - ie least complex) is still intrinsic to a personality because of the way it can impact other more "important" traits. For example, Radiant's pragmatism might have prevented Veil from making the mistakes she makes in Kholinar because she'd have stayed more divorced from proceedings than we see Veil do - and that might have meant that Grund didn't die, or Veil would have handled the whole situation better. In tWoK and WOR in contrast, Shallan only uses personas - they are masks for her to put on and discard as she likes - she doesn't think dramatically differently when wearing the faces of the maid at Amaram's, or Amaram himself - but she starts to do so in Kholinar in OB as a result of OSDD. This is important. Shallan does wear a persona for Adolin - thats normal for a girl who has essentially been set up on an epic level blind date with a Prince. Of course she tries to hide her feet of clay. The issue I have is that she hasn't really tried to reveal herself fully to Adolin and now they are married. I personally wouldn't mind her being cagey still if they weren't married, but they are - and Adolin has no idea about what he's got himself into and she hasn't actually given him a chance. Once again, I don't think this is very fair of her. So why is this important? I for one, don't think "Veil" is a bigger fragment than "Shallan", but both "Shallan" and "Veil" represent larger fragments of trueShallan than Radiant does. The size though doesn't matter - absence of even the tiniest fragment would result in potentially important personality changes. What I do think is that it means that we cannot dismiss the feelings of any single alter - no matter what. "Shallan" has feelings for Adolin, "Veil" has feelings for Kaladin, and Radiant is more interested in the relative merits of each man - and weighs them accordingly. TrueShallan therefore must feel all of these but she has built artifical walls between her alters which separates them. On top of that, we have disagreement between the alters about the marriage to Adolin. It is normal to have misgivings about getting married - but trueShallan pushes that fear onto "Veil" so that "Shallan" doesnt have to expereince it. She manages all her internal conflict this way by the end of OB and honestly it isn't healthy because she will never reintergrate if she doesn't get her alts to reconcile. She has made no effort to do that yet. Hence, she has a long way to go (as per WoB) This might suggest that Shallan's romantic arcs arent completed yet - not necessaruly that the current situation will change, but until she reconciles herself to the crush she had on Kaladin and push it aside, she cannot be said to be completely committed to Adolin. And this leads me to Point 3: Shallan is not committed to Adolin. She should be, but she isn't. A significant portion of her sees herself as Adolin's drinking buddy and no more and is seriously crushing on Kaladin. Once again, not fair on Adolin. I don't blame Shallan for this - she is in the grip of a very serious condition that is essentially the fault of her parents. But at the same time, she hasn't actually accepted her position - instead she is pushing the fears she has onto Veil and not actually genuinely deliberating between her choices (or accepting that she could easily choose neither if she really wanted to). I don't want to suggest that her choice of Adolin is wrong per se, but I definitely feel her reasons are wrong and don't do justice to Adolin, Kaladin or indeed Shallan herself. The issue is that unlike a "normal" situation where the internal conflicts are managed through some form of reconcilliation between conflicting ideas, Shallan maintains her conflicts and until she faces those conflicts and actually manages them properly, her issues are going to continue boiling on. Personally I think this is also reflected in plot points that affect Shallan directly - ie the triangle, Helaran's death, and the murder of Sadeas. Shallan chooses nt to address her internal conflicts and this results in her not facing external conflicts either. Right I've got to go (already) but I may be back soon with a chapter by chapter analysis of different points- not necessarily just to do with A/S/K tho if no one minds some slight off topic comments?

One way that Brandon develops his characters is through combining ‘seeds’: foundational attributes of history or personality. Lightsong is one good example, where Brandon combined the concepts of “someone who died, came back to life, and lost a piece of himself in the return” and “someone who could fit into an Oscar Wilde play.” This keeps his characters from being one-dimensional caricatures: these different inherent characteristics play off and contrast one another, making the characters seem more realistic. I think, for the ten Stormlight flashback characters, he has been developing his characters with additional layers of complexity. Aside from the normal defining character traits, these ten characters also will a flashback sequence that reinterprets much of what we know about them. There are three other categories where we see major character traits: some sort of neuroatypicality, membership in a Radiant Order, and something magical or realmatic that makes them unique among Stormlight characters. Here is a table summarizing the character traits I’m speaking about. Theories are highlighted in italics; some are a little more esoteric than others. I’ll describe each of those categories in more detail, as well as some specifics of each character, below the jump. Character Backstory Neurology Radiance What-in-the- Kaladin Surgeon-Soldier Slave Depression Windrunner Fighting Ability Shallan Artist Murder PTSD Lightweaver Split Personality Dalinar Reluctant King Blackthorn Alcoholism Bondsmith Unity Eshonai/Venli Explorer/ Willshaper Singer Szeth Believer Outcast Skybreaker Nightblood Lift Annoying Edgedancer Eating Renarin Weaker Son Aspergers Truthwatcher Voidbinder Jasnah Atheist Elsecaller Worldhopper Ash Herald Insane Dustbringer Herald swap Taln Herald Insane Stoneward Herald All characters have Character. I’m marking it out separately here, because there are important aspects of characterization that don’t fall on one of the other pillars. Except for Kaladin, we get to know all of these characters before we see their flashbacks, we are convinced to care about who they are before this previously unrevealed aspect of them is shown. (Disclaimer: the description above of those characters is obviously simplified. I’m not trying to reduce some of these characters down to basic words or phrases, but rather make space to highlight the systematic approach I see with regards to other types of characterization.) But these characters are inherently complex because of their Backstory, the content of their flashbacks. Each character has a hidden history that redefines the way we view them. It’s often inherently tied to their Character, but due to the structure of each Stormlight book, it is something that Brandon has specifically developed for each character. The third aspect, which is tied pretty well together with the previous two, is their Neurology. Brandon has made several explicitly neuroatypical characters, and I think that all ten will exhibit such a trait. Maybe it will be formally diagnosable; in the case of our Herald flashback characters, I suspect it won’t be. But Brandon has exhibited a specific goal to include that sort of representation in Stormlight, and I think that is something people will look back on as what makes the series great. Next, we get into the things that are somewhat more arbitrary. I subscribe to the belief that each flasback character represents one Radiant order. The Oathbringer ‘Avengers Assemble’ scene has been talked about in other threads, so I know there are differing viewpoints on the matter, but I hold that each character is also specifically a representative of a Radiant Order. With Szeth becoming a Skybreaker, Renarin bonding a corrupted Truthwatcher spren, and there being some pretty strong signs that Venli will be a Willshaper, the only controversial point of this is Ash as a Dustbringer. And lastly, there is something truly Bonkers about each of these characters, something that is magically or Realmatically significant, or just plain weird. This really jumped out at me during the Thaylen City battle, where Szeth and Lift played off of one another through these traits (when Lift fed Nightblood), using things that they don’t share with the rest of their Orders or with anybody else at all. I’d previously thought that a bond with Nightblood would somehow grant Szeth access to the Skybreakers, but Oathbringer seems to show that Szeth’s acquisition of Nightblood really has nothing to do with his being a Skybreaker. It’s just something cool that he’s got. Some of the experiences of Dalinar and Shallan in Oathbringer also identified them as unique among their Orders. I think each of the ten main characters has this sort of a WOW factor, completely aside from their history, character, and Radiancy, some major ability or attribute that sets them apart as unique heroes. Some of these are pretty obvious, as were listed in the table above. Here are the things I theorize or suspect: · Kaladin. What sets him apart, makes him more than ‘just’ a Windrunner? I think it has to do with his martial prowess. There was that strange, electric sense he felt when he first picked up a spear. And when he had temporarily damaged his bond to Syl in WoR, he lost much of his talent. For a while, I thought he hadn’t truly lost it, but it was just his depression getting the better of him; he was blaming it on losing Syl, but he was really just being mopey. Especially since we didn’t see any abnormal increase in fighting skills among Bridge Four as they were on their path to becoming Windrunners. But something in OB made me rethink that position. There is something unique about Kaladin’s status as a Windrunner: his spren. Syl is different, older, than the other Honorspren. I think there’s something unique and special about Syl that grants Kaladin his skill with weapons. I haven’t been able to nail down a specific mechanism or reason for this yet; maybe Kaladin is Honor’s Champion, and Syl is a special spren left by Honor for him. Maybe not; but, in future books, I’m gonna be keeping an eye out for Kaladin’s special skill with his spear. · Not much more to say on Shallan; she pretty explicitly embodies all five pillars. I think the end of Oathbringer showed that she’s not on a path to overcome her split personalities, but to accept that as her new normal. I imagine Brandon is exploring this concept as a mirror of Rand’s story from Wheel of Time. Rand had to accept and merge with Lews Therin; Shallan does not merge, but accepts her shattered personality. · I think Dalinar’s alcoholism is his brokenness; it’s a pretty defining feature of the person he used to be, and his turning away from it a major factor of how he became who is. So, let’s look at what makes him unique. “I Am Unity.” He pulled together three Realms, but he also did some uniting earlier, through reassembling the temple of Talanel in Thaylen City. I had thought it was the Surge of Cohesion at first, but it turns out I was mistaken as to the Surges the Bondsmiths have. I don’t think it’s Spiritual Adhesion: when we saw that in action, it was letting him learn a language through Connection. I think this Unification ability is something different, and he was able to Physically and Spiritually Unite the broken pieces of the temple, dragging them together the same way he dragged the Realms together. As to where this power comes from… that’s another thing I don’t know. It strikes me as similar to the magic we saw in the released Dragonsteel chapters, more of a direct Realmatic manipulation, rather than a modern formalized magic system. Maybe it has to do with him as a successor to Honor. I like the crazy ideas that he’s a successor to Adonalsium, somehow. It’s something else to keep an eye on, exactly what it means for Dalinar to be Unity. · Eshonai and Venli are unique, in that they are tag teaming this character slot. Eshonai gets the flashback sequence, but Venli is the one who actually bonded the Radiant spren. I don’t think we’re in a good situation to speculate much on them – I don’t have a good sense for Venli’s character, and I don’t see any signs from either of them for neuroatypicality. But I do think that Venli being the first Singer Radiant is what makes her unique; we’ll see if that grants her any special powers, due to having potentially different ways to interact with her spren. · Szeth is another one who is kind of hard to speculate on. He does have character, I’m just having a hard time describing it. I almost think he has PTSD, but that’s what Shallan has. Nothing inherently wrong with multiple characters suffering from it, but I suspect there should be something else up with him. Maybe we’ll see some more when we get more Szeth POVs in the next two books. But his acquisition of Nightblood is part of what makes me think each of these ten characters has something crazy going on with them – he just gets Nightblood out of the blue, and it doesn’t help him become a Skybreaker or anything. It’s just something funky going on with Szeth. · I’m gonna jump ahead and do Jasnah, because I think I see some hints, especially in Oathbringer, of interesting secrets going on with her. First is her brokenness. We learned she suffered from an illness when she was younger, but we don’t get many details. I suspect this is the source of her brokenness, some long-term physiological effects of this disease. She gives no sign of any physical handicap (the crazy idea popped into my head that she’s unable to feel, but I haven’t looked to see if that’s consistent with the text, regardless of how thematic it might be), but I’m reminded of Helen Keller, and how a childhood illness left her blind and deaf. Her backstory is another peculiar aspect, since I get the feeling we’re in her backstory right now. Jasnah is hiding things from the other characters and from us as readers (her possible Shardplate in Thaylen City being the most egregious). It makes me think her flashback sequence will not end where we meet her in Way of Kings, but extend through the first five-book arc Secret-History-style, possibly including the planned gap years between SA5 and SA6. Oh, and lastly, the WOW factor. I’ve seen it floated that Jasnah seems like a perfect worldhopper candidate, right in the vein of Khriss. I think that would be a fitting way to set her apart from the other Elsecallers. · Lift is one we both know a lot about, and know very little about. I’m not a huge fan of her characterization; I almost find her to be sociopathic in the way she views the world around her, treating very dangerous things as games. But I won’t go so far as to suggest that’s a diagnosable mental illness; it may very well be just a part of her normal characterization, and I’m merely not fond of it. But, sort of like Jasnah, I don’t think Lift has lived her flashbacks yet. There’s a bit we don’t know about her early childhood, but I don’t know if there’s enough mystery to fill a flashback sequence. · There is much still mysterious about Renarin’s Voidbinding, but he’s clearly still a good guy, and pretty distinct from the other Truthwatchers. And his disability is the most explicit of all the characters. He might have enough for a flashback sequence with his current life experiences, but I suspect he’s another one who will progress during the gap, since I feel like Sja-anat can’t just fade into the background for a few more books. · Lastly, the Heralds, Taln and Ash. As discussed above, I identify Ash as the Dustbringer, which is her WOW factor. Taln being the Herald of that Order, never abandoning it, is his WOW factor. Maybe he still has a direct connection to Honor, or what remains of him, and can use it to power his eventual Surgebinding. And for both Heralds, the brokenness is going to be their insanity, whichever flavor it is for either of them. Flashbacks will be nuts and cosmic in nature. If you’ve paid attention over the years, there were several characters who were floated early on as being potential flashback characters. I think they had WOW factors, but were ultimately cut as flashback characters for others with stronger flashback sequences. But I think you can still identify their WOW factors, which are still big parts of the story even if the characters don’t get a book to themselves. I think these characters may even continue on to become Radiants anyways, so I’ll include my speculation on order, although I will admit these are primarily drawn from the overall systematization, rather natural outflows of the characterization: · Adolin: Edgedancer, Reawakened Blade · Navani: Dustbringer, Fabrial Expert · Taravangian: Truthwatcher, Diagram · Second Male Herald: Willshaper, ??? (I suspect this was referring to Kalak, as the Willshaper slot is open, but it’s possible that he had an order swap planned for another Herald instead of Ash at one point. Very little to go on here.) So, my aspiring Mendeleevs, what patterns do you see? Any thoughts on the cells that I left blank? Any replacements for some of my theories?

I feel like you are making my point for me. I agree with all of this. I think all of Veil and Radiant's feelings and capabilities are Shallan's (not their backstory of course. Shallan needed that to be different so that she could pretend she did not kill her mother.) Shallan pretends Veil is infatuated with Kaladin but she (Shallan) is not and she pretends Radiant can hold her shardblade but she (Shallan) cannot. That is all her. She is the one with those feelings and she is the one who is capable of holding her shardblade and learning to wield it. These are Shallan's attributes. The point is Shallan is not functioning right now without her alters. Like you said she made them because she thinks she can't. I want to her to realize that yes she can because that is what she has been doing. But she is pretending so fiercely that she cannot do these things; that only Veil and Radiant can. This is where she is stuck. This is why I do not see her progressing. She is pretending that she is three people when she is one person with complex feelings and various abilities. She is lying to herself and she believes the lie. Like Pattern says "your lies wrap other lies." (This is when he calls her Shallan and she says call me Veil.) This moment is straight to the point. I am invested in the love story but dang I agree it is not well developed. The love story doesn't have to be central but Sanderson has packed emotional weight into just a few pages in OB itself and in his other books. That this love story does not have emotional weight is disappointing.

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I'll take a swing at the mental health angle, since that's a large part of what I do. Kaladin is pretty straightforward so I'll agree on depression absolutely. Shallan is kind of impossible to diagnose. She doesn't have PTSD, although that term gets overused extensively by the lay community. I would classify her as "childhood trauma", with everything else being a coping mechanism related to that. She's demonstrated avoidance mechanisms, and occasional panic attacks as a result. She has something like a borderline personality disorder also occurring. The "multiple personalities" thing seems to be more a side effect of overuse of her illusion magic than an organic cause as Hoid seems immediately familiar with her problems. I think "Anger Management / Rage" are more the core mental health problems of Dalinar's psychological functioning. Dalinar uses alcohol as a means to an end (self-treating other mental health anguishes), rather than as an end to itself. It is a substance misuse problem, but I wouldn't qualify it as a classic addiction scenario. Indeed he has shown the ability to stop alcohol consumption rather rapidly at multiple points, and doesn't have that constant desire/craving to consume alcohol that is so central to addiction. Teft is a much better example of true substance abuse disorder, the craving to use is always there and he fears regressing into addiction whenever he has free time or expendable income. Alcohol is something Dalinar uses to retreat from the anguish of Evi's loss and later to hide of the re-awakening thrill he feels at Vedenar, he doesn't have a single minded fixation on using alcohol itself just to use it though. Also the alcohol benders are a fairly recent change for him, Dalinar's rage and the consequences of him letting it out have been a black mark on his career as far back as we have flashbacks though.Szeth has a cult mentality. That's not necessarily a diagnosis, but his need to follow an authority it is the source of his problems. For Renarin I'd note that Aspergers as a terminology has been phased out. Autism spectrum (high functioning) would probably be the more correct term. Even with that diagnosis though, I'm not completely convinced. Renarin has certainly shown a large degree of social awkwardness and likely has a history of bullying, but we haven't seen him grossly misunderstanding social cues from others though or acting unusually inappropriate in social settings beyond excessive fidgeting. Jasnah we don't know enough about. She had some sort of acute "madness" as a child, but the fact that it hasn't recurred makes a diagnosis of schizophrenia pretty unlikely. I think she also had some sort of traumatic event occur as child, and the extreme anger+violence she showed to the potential rapist/murderers in Khabranth, along with her comment about learning that even those you love can hurt you probably offers us a sad clue of what kind of trauma she experienced. It will likely be many books before we get a clear picture of her past though. Taln seems like a classic PTSD case. Even after his mind was temporarily restored by Dalinar's rush of stormlight and he started talking lucidly and hopefully, Ash later notes that the sights and sounds of battle reduced him to a catatonic crying mess. He seems like the classic soldier case of PTSD. We'll probably see more of this later. Ash is OCD. Her compulsion is to destroy any images of herself. The scene where she forces herself to look downwards because she knows that if she sees any images of herself she will need to destroy them is a giveaway. It's not a thing she chooses to do, it's a compulsive behavior.

There is also the fact that Shallan is sitting and feeling weak and disoriented, but when she sees Kaladin that is when she stands up. Suddenly she is feeling strong. This happens earlier in OB as well. Shallan is on Honor's Path and thinks that she can't retreat to Veil right now because Veil is feeling broken. But when talking to Kaladin Veil peaks out and is super involved in helping him figure out a way to escape the honorspren. (This happens just before Shallan thinks Veil is too broken.) Veil's feelings for Kaladin are so strong that even the pain she feels about her failure in Kholinar can't keep her from drooling over him. Shallan stuff's Veil away because Veil starts drooling.

This is exactly it. I do agree the complexity is hinted at, but since it was never explored properly, it made the character appear too simplistic, bland and one-dimensional. There are two types of characters I will consider bland and one-dimensional: characters really without any depth nor substance and characters with hinted potential and depth, but left unexplored. In both cases, I find we are left with a character which misses the mark. If in the first case, we can just toss the character away as a meaningless minor bland character, in the second case we are left thinking so much more could have been added to make this specific narrative more powerful. Amaram is definitely a character I felt was done a disservice into the narrative. He has interesting potential as a tormented villain. I can't say he lived up to it. Totally agree with your ideas and your analogy. It would have also spiced up Dalinar's story arc which I felt was a tad boring and repetitive at times. There however are more changes I would make to several narratives to make them more effective and emotionally powerful. On average, I feel OB missed the mark with many of those: character development often done in an after-thought and for characters not being one of the main three, it is so sparse, it doesn't even count as character development. Amaram is one example of a "good idea of a character", someone with a lot of "hinted at interesting depths", but badly explored, apparently falling victim to the book structure where nobody but the top three is really allowed introspective, deepened story arcs. A shame. There were so many story arcs I felt were more interesting to focus on than the ones we got...

I think it was exactly like this in WoK/WoR, that Shallan put a mask over her bruised self the way all people do to some extent and it's ofc not creating a persona. But in OB when she fractures, this mask is all that's left of her after her other, usually more hidden traits get pushed into Veil and Radiant. And that's imo how these issues are related. I don't think the "realShallan theory" is about any secret persona. It's just that realShallan is consisted of all Shallan, Veil, Radiant and stuff hidden in the back of her head.

welp, here they are! Please let me know if this type of stuff isn't allowed, as I don't want to offend anyone, and I'll take it down! Falconry is, after all, a hunting sport, and this is natural behavior for hawks and other predatory birds like Revali, and a skill he must hone if he is to survive in the wild. Hawk that caught a rat under the tag

I just thought of something why reading through WoK. "I've never seen a named martial arts used on scadrial, thats weird". Then I thought,"Ah why the hell not? lets have some fun and make A martial arts form!" So this is what I call MistWay (MisutoPo, ミスト方法) where there are 16 different disciplines each meant to compliment A certain type of misting or mistborn. so, Here we go! (Things With an Asterisk can be used by Non-Allomancers Easily) Here's Feruchemy, special thanks to @Shallan's Ward for the help, I literally could not done it without the help: Feruchemy (Path of Balance) / バランス

AG4/AN1: A Fresh Start A mountain stood high above the land that had been a kingdom, surrounded by a thousand fires. Beneath its steady gaze, armies fought relentlessly through the days, ceasing only to take shelter from highstorms. Atop that mountain sat a small town, hosting only a single visible fire in the very centre of the town. “Once, when your parents were but children, there was peace,” an old woman said, making images of happiness and sunshine appear in the flames. “And before that, before even your father’s father’s father’s father lived, there was another war. Another Desolation.” Images of fires in the darkness appeared, first dozens but slowly going out. “War such as the land had never known ravaged the world, and humans died by the tens of thousands. Odium corrupted many more.” All but the last spark had gone out, and it flickered. “But we survived.” The spark flickered again, but it remained. “The Heralds were there to help us, and we survived.” The fire flared and grew, until it filled the entire vision and melded with the fire already there. She smiled at the children. “We’ll survive this one, too. There will be peace again. Now, go on, shoo! Your parents will be wondering where you’ve been.” The children giggled and scattered, but Sherrah stayed and watched the fire. “Peace again,” she murmured to herself, thinking of the campfires that were moving further up the mountain every night. “Someday.” If people were asked to describe Narg, they’d generally say that he was a man - who while unfortunate in life - that just got through life. Not one to interact with people, but also not one to stay in all day. Not one for physical labour, but also not someone who avoids it. Not one for repetitive sentences, but also unable to avoid them. But when pressed for more details about the elusive Narg, most would shrug and just leave with a ‘Narg is Narg, ya know?’. However, we at Roshar Reporting decided to get the full scoop on Narg, so decided to ask Narg about Narg. We’ve edited the boring parts of the interview out, as reporters often do. If anyone would like to have a full transcript involving the incident with the eggs, subscribe today for only 1 mark a month. As well as our feature piece on Narg, we have a story about why Desolations are called Desolations and not Desotructions on Page 4. For the purposes of this interview, Narg will be referred to as Narg and I will be referred to as Mark (also the price of our subscription). Mark: So Narg, it seems like no-one really gets to know you that well, do you even agree with that? Narg: Well I’d always kind of thought that, but I guess now I know it’s true, so thanks for that. Mark: So why did you even think that in the first place? Narg: You think that’s even a question? Don’t answer that. It’s probably because of my name, you know anyone else with the name Narg? Mark: No. Narg: Exactly, doesn’t roll of the tongue now does it? But what makes things even worse is that all the kids think it’s the funniest thing ever, you know how kids are. Leave the house and all I hear is ‘Nargle Nargle, Gives us a Giggle’. That was the first creative thing they did, and let me tell you, these kids are born poets. Mark: Could you give us any more examples? Narg: Well there’s ‘Nargle Nargle, Lives in a Jungle’, then you got ‘Nargle Nargle, Won’t even Struggle’ and don’t forget ‘Nargle Nargle, Forever Single’, Mark: Okay I think that might be enough for now, thanks. So you think that the name Narg is the cause for all your social struggles? Narg: To put it bluntly, yes. Sure there might be other reasons for it, but seriously Narg is just such a stupid name that how can I even do anything with it. But I have found a solution to that problem, which I’m sure you’ll understand eventually. Is that all? Mark: Could you not elaborate on your solution now? Narg: Oh no, you see it only starts in around a week or so. Expect a sudden increase in subscribers, followed by a slow decline in those subscribers. Mark: Thanks? Narg: No problem, now I got things to do so farewell for now. Maybe I’ll even get another interview soon. After that, Narg went to barter for some goods, and you know what? I could hear the songs accompanying him, so I guess he had a point there. Another year of SE, and it doesn’t appear that you’ve had your fill of murdering each other yet… 2017 was a year of a number of changes to SE, beginning with the successful implementation of cosmetic roles in the last AG, and the subsequent return to greater numbers of Sanderson games being played. Later in the year, we saw a changing of the guard of the moderators, saying a sad farewell to Metacognition and Gamma Fiend, with Seonid and myself now joining Wilson and Alv to run this subforum. We’re ending the year (albeit belatedly) on a note of change, too, and are proud to announce that Anonymous Games have been approved. This game, AG4, will be the first Anonymous Game, and further Anonymous Games will be played once each quarter. In order to sign up to run an anonymous game, you must have either GMd 4 games, or have played 15 games. To run an anonymous game, you must be at the top of both the anonymous waitlist, and that of another format. Anonymous Games are not a format of their own, but act as a modifier to games of a differing format. Unfortunately, 2017 also saw changes in our forum that have been less positive, with an increasing tendency towards inactivity. In the spirit of Cosmetic Roles last year, there will be a competition this game for three non-Sanderson game passes, allowing you to run a game not set in one of Sanderson’s works. This year, however, the competition will be based on activity, with a vote amongst players at the end of the game on which players have been the most active, and have done the most to encourage activity. Last year, Meta mentioned we had a secret challenge for three more non-Sanderson game passes. That challenge was also based on activity. We will be awarding those after this game ends as well. And now for the biggest change. To further combat the inactive tendency, we’re rolling out a warning system. At the end of each game, the impartial moderator will ask the GM for a list of the people who went inactive for most of the game. Those who gave the GM a heads-up regarding real life issues won’t have anything to worry about, but people who gave no heads-up will get a warning (this also includes people whose heads-up was just “I don’t feel like playing anymore”). One warning is like a minor slap on the wrist, merely meant to get a player realizing that going inactive without warning isn’t okay. It’s not meant to be a condemnation or make players feel unwanted in the games. Getting two warnings in three games, or three warnings in a six-month period will result in a three month ban from playing. Please, everyone, before you sign up for a game, think about whether you have time to play. If you know something will come up and you’ll only be able to play for so long, don’t sign up. This applies even if the GM would really like a certain number of players. Or if you think you’ll be dead by the time you’d go inactive. If something comes up unexpectedly, that’s understandable. Just let the GM know, and you’ll be fine. Hopefully, with everyone paying attention to their own activity, and perhaps reaching out to include others in the game so everyone is invested (and therefore less likely to go inactive), we can fix this inactivity problem. Housekeeping: AG4/AN1 will begin in 7 days time, at 10pm GMT on the 13th January. Ties will result in an even chance of death between all those tied for the most votes, with a single death occurring. Two votes minimum are required for a lynch. PMs are open until there are no remaining Edgedancers. Group PMs are allowed. Please include Stink and myself in all PMs. The order of actions will be as follows: -Lightweaver -Skybreaker -Windrunner -Dustbringer/Odium’s Sympathisers’ kill Wilson will be the IM for this game. In the first instance, please take any issues to Stink and myself, but if we’re unable to resolve them, or if there’s a conflict of interest, Wilson will step in to facilitate a resolution. Anonymous Accounts: Please sign up by PMing both Stink and myself, with your PM in the format: AG4: [Your Name]. At the start of the game, you will be issued an anonymous account. There are a number of rules associated with the use of an Anonymous Account. Please follow them carefully. Given the potential for abuse of Anonymous Accounts, any rule breaking using the accounts will be dealt with harshly. 1) Do not change the password of the anonymous account you are issued. Wilson, Stink and I will have access to all anonymous accounts for the duration of the game. 2) Do not use the anonymous accounts to PM any non-anonymous account, other than the accounts of the GMs. Please do not use your normal accounts to PM anonymous accounts. 3) Do not tell any other player or individual associated with SE, whether you are playing or not playing the Anonymous Game. Player identities will be revealed after the game, not on the death of their avatar. Players must not reveal their own identity after their death, until the end of the game, including in the dead/spec doc. Players wishing to spectate rather than play should PM Stink and myself for a link to the spectator doc. Questions and rules clarifications should be submitted in your sign up PMs, and will be posted by myself in the signups thread. 4) Do not change anything cosmetic about the accounts, including member title, username, signature, and avatar. Factions: Roles: This thread will be locked. As a reminder, and for those of you who haven’t read the rules (go back and do so), sign ups and spec doc requests must be by PM to Stink and myself, in the format AG4: [Your Name]. Quick Links:

Night 4: Everyone Start Panicking. Aspen whistled to herself merrily as she cooked herself a large breakfast. It was going to be a beautiful day, and she was certain it would also be a productive day. They had narrowed down who the Mistborn was, Marv, obviously. All they had to do was kill him today and then they could kill the infiltrators, and then the armies, and then someone else probably. She wasn’t picky. She poured herself some milk, put her eggs and toast on her plate, and sat down to eat. It was quite tasty, and she made sure to enjoy it. She wanted everything about this day to be perfect. Her breakfast finished, she headed out into the town. She was supposed to be at the Conference 2 hours ago, but they could lynch Marv without her. She needed some new plants for her garden. The prices would be high of course, but plants were worth any cost. If one couldn’t maintain a garden during a war, what could they do at all? Another 2 hours later, she entered her home, whistling a new tune to herself as she dumped the bags of seeds on the counter. She checked the clock and winced. 4 hours late, and another hour to get ready and get there would make 5. Ah well, there wasn’t a death penalty for being late. “Then we are agreed, we will kill Aspen because she is the Mistborn, and because she is not here to defend herself.” Aspen froze in the doorway. “Wait what?” The others in there room all turned to her. “Ah! Speak of the Devil!” Count Sen smiled at her. Then frowned, “Wait, does that saying make sense here?” “I’m not the Mistborn! Marv is!” Count Conrad raised an eyebrow as Marv sputtered. “I am quite certain you are wrong Aspen.” Marv finished sputtering. “Thank you.” “He’s obviously an Infiltrator.” “Gah! I am a villager!” “Lies and Slander!” “I’m also a villager!” “More Lies”! “Shut up Marv!” “You shut up Conrad!” “But you’re conrad. . .” “I thought I was Jax?” “Wait, what?” Everyone paused, including you, and worked their way through the conversation, then decided to ignore it and just Skip to killing Aspen and finding out she was just a village Smoker. Aspen was a Village Smoker 1! Votes: Aspen(4): Seonid, Straw, Steeldancer, HH HH(3): Aspen, Drake marshall, Elend Venture The Day will end in: Player List: Steeldancer - A dancer who wears steel toed boots. Straw - Adfus Syponr, A man who believes in Luck and Chance. Seonid - Count Sen Conrad the III, a man unrelated to something or other. Hemalurgic Headshot - Marv, Nothing unusual about him. Drake Marshall - Jay, Luthadel’s illiterate Librarian shanerockes - Phillip, the first of his line

OB chapter 3: Dalinar recruiting Teleb

Very well, I'll think about it.

Also the tired Shallan - I’ll give you she’s determined - determined to stuff Veil and Radiant (this is when Radiant switches to being Team Kal) into the back part of her brain. Want to take on the how the stuffing to back part of brain can be seen as a good thing? We got some great imagery of Shallan from Adolin’s PoV here. The “stood solidly on two feet” is fantastic, especially how it echos the forcefulness of the Wit illusion that “set her jaw and stood there.” @PhineasGage Welcome back!!! I for one missed your commentary!

I actually doubt this interpretation, mainly because of this WoB: This doesn't completely invalidate the idea, of course, Brandon could always swap a pair of flashback characters with respect to the books focusing on their Orders, e.g. make Renarin the flashback character for the Elsecaller book and make Jasnah the flashback character for the Truthwatcher book. But either he's doing a weird switch like that or Ash isn't going to be swapping Orders (or he's changed his plans since that WoB, but since that came from the end of 2014 when he had already decided on the current set of flashback characters, I think that's unlikely). Firstly, Jasnah is most definitely not unable to feel. There are a number of passages that make this clear, here's one from WoR: Secondly, I do really like the idea that Jasnah's flashbacks might be threaded through the first arc. It would be quite a twist if this reading Brandon did in 2014 was actually a reading from Stormlight 10 (or whichever book ends up being Jasnah's).

I'll start a new job tomorrow. Since getting accepted I was really excited. But now...I feel quite strange. Still excited, but also a bit insecure/nervous.

As promised, scenery photos from Dauphin Island off Alabama's southern coast (its only coast, in fact )! 5 photos under each spoiler:

I think it's safe to assume that Wayne is potentially everywhere and everyone at any given time.

I'm in a strange city where I don't really know anyone, it's cold, I have just a small room ... but it's for exciting reasons (internship starts soon!) and I have Oathbringer, my laptop, and my crochet with me, so I feel hype!

The wanders ail story is not about the Radiants and Honor. Honor didn't die until after the Recreance. It why he has a vision of the event. He remembers it. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/171/#e8144 Honor was dying. Not dead.

I considered making a dalinar-related sequence, but I'm no good at it. I mean, I wouldn't even be able to stick a drawing of dalinar on top of another image without leaving white spaces all around, because I only can copy-paste rectangular parts of a drawing. So I'll try to describe the scenes. Bear with me. 1) Image: a couple is about to marry, dalinar is officiant. Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: Dalinar likes every chance of uniting people 2) Image: a political map showing the various nations of europe, and dalinar with a flag of the european union Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: Dalinar does not approve of brexit 3) Image: Dalinar sponsoring a tube of glue Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: radiant super glue: binding things since the first desolation 4) Image: Bill Clinton and Sarah Palin, with dalinar putting a hand on each of their shoulders Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: Dalinar won't ever give up on a doomed cause 5) Image: a broken egg's shell, with dalinar trying to glue the pieces of the shell back together Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: Dalinar takes this whole "unity" thing a bit too far 6) Image: on the left, dalinar with two bits of string. On the right, dalinar having tied them into a knot Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: Dalinar always tries to be helpful

If you take as a given that geekery = introversion, then I see why you feel the way you do. However, those two traits are not necessarily married to each other. It is very possible to be extremely geeky and extremely extroverted - these traits are not mutually exclusive by any means. I have friends who take pedantic nerdery to levels previously unseen by mortal beings who are also exhaustingly extroverted people. They do exist. Navani is not at all unusual, and definitely not impossible.

I managed to get my copy of Oathbringer a bit early and have been thinking and trying to make sense of Dalinar's awesome transformation at the end. In crafting a theory to explain this, I made a list of some important details and thought I would share those with y'all in the hope of a good discussion: Important Details: UNITE THEM! - Chapter 119 - I'll start off with the obvious detail, when Dalinar freaking grabs the fabric of reality with his hands and merges the Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual realms together into a perpendicularity. We've had tidbits of perpendicularities in Arcanum Unbound and different things but to my knowledge, we've never seen anyone short of a Shard or splinter do something this powerful in the Cosmere as of yet. According to the Arcanum Unbounded, this generally requires "concentration of so much Investiture" that "creates points of ... friction, where a kind of tunneling exists". As far as I know, only Shards themselves have caused this in the past and it seems well outside the powers of a bondsmith so the question is how is Dalinar doing this? Syl says its Honor's perpendicularity so we at least know that it is Honor's power that Dalinar is wielding somehow. Whatever this power is, Dalinar seems to be able to do it on command now since he overcharged Kaladin with Stormlight in Chapter 122 before Kaladin takes off to find his missing bridgemen. I am Unity - Chapter 119 - When asked what he is by Venli, Dalinar responds with the awesome phrase "I am Unity", which could have many interpretations. Is this referring to his overall goal of unifying? Is it simply a cool way of leading into his unifying the Realms? Or is the capitalization of Unity important and does that signify that Dalinar has become something far more? WE KILLED YOU! - Chapter 119 - Perhaps my favorite detail is Odium's reaction to Dalinar's epiphany. Not only is Odium shocked by Dalinar's resistance, he seems to be downright scared here. And most interesting is the choice of pronouns here. In their previous discussion regarding Dalinar's sins, Odium always said "I" as in "I was there, influencing you", so this doesn't seem to be a royal "we". With the available information, I can see two possible explanations. One, Honor's death was a cooperative effort between Odium and some other party such as Autonomy though this seems unlikely since all of our evidence so far indicates that Odium killed Tanavast by himself. Second, and more intriguing, is the shattering of Adonalsium, which seems to better explain the anger, outrage, and fear in Odium's statements. What about Dalinar's Unity frightens Odium so much? What does Dalinar look like to Odium's eyes? How? What have you done? - Chapter 119 - Despite being the Cognitive shadow of a god, the Stormfather has no clue what or how Dalinar just accomplished. Is this just the typical Spren forgetfulness since he hasn't been bonded in millennia? Their later conversation seems to indicate that this really hasn't been done before... We are something different - Chapter 119 - Dalinar's own words to describe this event are "We are something different. His remnants, your soul, my will". This is interesting to me since it could be interpreted in a realmatic context as the combination of Physical (his remnants), Cognitive (my will), and Spiritual (your soul) components though the remnants seems like it should really be of all three and not just Physical. Dalinar was not supposed to Ascend - Chapter 122 - Another Odium line that stands out since the topic of Ascension has a known definition within the Cosmere: a vessel taking up a Shard of Adonalsium like in the Mistborn series. The context of this phrase is a bit murky though since Odium and Mr. T are talking about events in the past, present, and future so it's a bit unclear whether this is directly referring to Dalinar's display or if it is some future event that both Odium and Mr. T have foreseen. Still, this clearly indicates to me that something major is going on with Dalinar and it seems like Odium thinks that this is not a one-hit wonder use of power on his part. Interesting side note is how the heck do y'all think the "Renarin Kholin" reference fits into this conversation? Was he the one who should have Ascended or was he the catalyst that caused Dalinar's Ascension (perhaps in that one flashback where Renarin breaks Dalinar out of his drinking and makes him realize a bit how awful he is being)? A warmth that he had known once before - Chapter 119 - Right before Dalinar Unites, he feels this weird warmth. As far as I can tell, this seems to refer to Dalinar's curious dream/vision in Ch 89 of WoR, where he seemingly relives a childhood moment before stepping outside where "warm light bathed him. A deep, enveloping, piercing warmth. A warmth that soaked down deep through his skin, into his very self. He stared at that light, and was not blinded. The source was distant, but he knew it. Knew it well. He smiled". Still don't have a good explanation for what's going on here but we do have confirmation a few pages later that the Stormfather did not send this. Since all of Dalinar's previous interactions with Honor have been mediated by the Stormfather, what could this warmth be? Unite them - Throughout all books, Dalinar's thoughts are almost always drawn to a single phrase "Unite them" that has driven a lot of his actions so far. Presumably, the first instance of this was the vision that Honor/Stormfather gave him but it continues to be repeated time and time again in Dalinar's viewpoints. It's a phrase that has been interpreted to mean many things over the books like "unite the highprinces", "unite the world", and "unite the radiants" but here we see it once again in probably the most spectacular fashion as he physically unites the realms. Are these words just Dalinar's continual introspection on these words or is this an external voice speaking to him? The Stormfather said it wasn't him in Chapter 111 and Dalinar definitely perceived it to be an external voice. Was it always an external voice or just this time? Who or what could this be? Theories: Looking at the available evidence, I have come up with three possible explanations for the power that Dalinar is wielding now: Dalinar has, or is in the process of, reforming Honor and is its new vessel - I believe we have some WoB that this is possible but very difficult. The "something different" and "we killed you" details seem like they dispute this but either one could be interpreted to support it. Syl claiming that the perpendicularity is Honor's does seem to support this however. Another possibility is that he has somehow accumulated enough of Honor's Investiture to become something like a mini-sliver like a Herald or above. Dalinar has somehow accumulated enough Investiture to become something new, Unity - Perhaps not a full Shard but something akin to or above a Herald in power and not necessarily linked with Honor alone. At this point, he's had direct interactions with three Shards/remnants of Shards, which seems unique, and could somehow have taken some measure of power from each. To be specific, Odium has been shaping him into a Champion for what seems like his entire life and likely had to sink some Investiture in him to do so. Cultivation took a piece of him and perhaps gave something in its place when he visited. And we all know that he has a big piece of Honor in his pocket in the form of the Stormfather. Syl's claim that the perpendicularity was Honor's could just be her best guess or it could be that the bulk of Dalinar's new power is of Honor and that's what she's sensing. Has the combination of all of this Investiture made him into something unique? I think this is the most likely theory though the "we killed you" detail doesn't seem to quite fit. Dalinar is, in some way, connected to Adonalsium on a deeper level than we thought - This is a bit more out-there than the other two theories and is predicated mostly on the "we killed you" detail. I think there's a WoB out there somewhere that Dalinar was one of the first characters of the SA that Brandon came up with (number 17 here) and this makes me curious. I'm probably reading too much into this random detail but could Dalinar be something like the reincarnation of Adonalsium? We've had absolutely no evidence of this before now but it kinda fits the fear in Odium's reaction to Dalinar's Ascension. Of course, I would expect a god to pick up on that fact if he's been watching and influencing a dude for most of his life but maybe there's more going on than we know? There was also that curious exchange between Wit and Dalinar in WoK regarding Adonalsium (Chapter 54) that could support this theory but there's a WoB (number 1 here) saying that was probably not that significant. Building off the previous theory, perhaps Odium interprets Dalinar's combination of the three Shard's Investiture as a preliminary attempt to reforge Adonalsium.

@Confused's theory to order the Shards made me think about it myself, and I believe that the Shards can be related to the different allomantic and feruchemical properties of metals. Or, more correctly, that the allomantic and feruchemical properties of metals have been designed after the mechanism that ordered the Shards. To back this up, we have this WoB about allomancy in relation to the Shards: Short deviation on the relaionship between allomancy and feruchemy (fair note, I think you can skip this part and still understand what I'm saying; it's just that I want to show how allomancy and feruchemy are related beyond just using the same metals) The allomantic table has been ordered into the physical, mental, enhancement and temporal groups, wheras the feruchemical table has been ordered into physical, cognitive, spiritual and hybrid groups. Additionally, the allomantic table has been further divided into internal and external and pulling and pushing. Though it is lost in the feruchemical table on coppermind, the correct ordering has symmetry in crystal structures of the pulling metals (alloys do not have a clean crystal structure), further implying that the metals are supposed to be ordered in this way*. I personally believe that the allomantic table's groups could also have been described as physical, cognitive, spiritual and hybrid. This because the "mental" metals are related to emotions (which are cognitive) and the emanation of "pulses" when metals are burned, which seem to be cognitive in nature as well. The enhancement metals, meanwhile, are related to the burning of metals themselves, which seems more spiritual in nature (Investiture comes from the Spiritual Realm, after all), and I believe the temporal group works in several Realms at once. In gold and electrum's case, it reads the Spiritual Realm and shows it in a cognitive or physical way (you can actually see the past/future version of yourself), and in cadmium and bendalloy's case I just think speeding up or slowing down time does not work in only one Realm. I would also not be surprised if there is something spiritual about time. *There is actually an error in this symmetry, as tin has two possible crystal structures, and the structure it is supposed to have in the table is the one that appears only below room temperature (about 13 degrees celsius or lower). Though I do not have the source with me now, Brandon has previously said that he first intended for another metal to fill this spot, but switched to tin; though I do not remember by heart which metal this was, I do remember looking it up and finding that, indeed, it had this crystal structure as well. Edit: The original metal was silver, thanks to @John203 for helping me out there. The relationship between the tables and the Shards I think that the Shards can be ordered in four groups of four and that the allomantic and feruchemical properties of the metals are based on them. However, we do not know all the Shards, while we do know all the allomantic and feruchemical properties, so let's try to reverse engineer what they were based on. I'll start with quadrants and apply Shards to their metals, instead of the other way around, as the known structure makes it easier to order. Having said that, I do not think the Shards themselves are (primairily) physical, cognitive, spiritual or hybrid, though I wouldn't necessarily rule it out either. Expand the spoilers for explanations. First (physical) quadrant: Steel: Survival Shard? Iron: Honor Pewter: Unknown Shard Tin: Endowment Second (cognitive) quadrant: Zinc: Odium Brass: Devotion Copper: Autonomy Bronze: Dominion Third (spiritual) quadrant: Duralumin: Unknown Shard Aluminium: Ruin Nicrosil: Unknown Shard Chromium: Unknown Shard Fourth (hybrid) quadrant: Gold: Unknown Shard Electrum: Unknown Shard Cadmium: Preservation Bendalloy: Cultivation Finding the other Shards I believe that, if this system is correct, we might be able to at least take a guess on the Intents of the unknown Shards from the properties we have here, though there will be a lot of guessing involved there. I'll give this a shot soon, but right now I'm going to hit post because I don't have much more time. I'll probably edit some guesses in.

Hi there, I'm new on the forum even though I came regularly reading theories and such after book releases. I'm French and discovered Brandon's work through Mistborn (Fils des Brumes in French) about 6 years ago and he instantly became my new favorite author ! I started buying and reading other works in English because many weren't available in French, and it just takes tooooo long to wait for translation and publishing for books as big as the S.A ones. I wonder if there are many readers here who are not native English speakers... Anyway, I apologize that I will probably not be very active on the forum but I will happily read theories and details from the books since I have troubles getting and remembering all the details and clues Brandon puts in them when it's not in French.

Most hated person: Straff all the way, he has no redeeming qualities at all. (Sadeas was bad, but Straff is next level) Most hated traitor: Nale, he didn't deserve that hug that Lift gave him. If Odium dies in the first five books, then he is my least favorite dark god. Otherwise he is my favorite dark god. He needs to prove he was worth the hype. Favorite antagonist (no one asked for this, but i'm doing it anyway): tie between Mraize and Miles. Edit: Most evil spren: Ulim (he is kind of funny though)

In the vision Dalinar states something along the lines of "something was terribly familiar" when talking about the champion. The figure familiar because he's seeing what could be version of himself, and it's foreshadowing the end of the book.. As far as the Unmade is concerned, I think the nine shadows behind the champion just means that they would obey the champion as they obey Odium. It's a type of bond, just not the specific one you're talking about.

I just had an idea, what if surge binding is required to make those multiple types of fabrials? So only the knight were capable of building the items necessary to replicate the 10 surges properly.

Bloodmakers can survive decapitation. Yes, the question asks about a Compounder, but the real power of compounding is just filling F-Reserves faster. A normal Blookmaker can store that much health given enough time, so they can survive it too. I'd think that counts as "keeping pieces together," in a sense. Not directly applied, no. But the primary point is still there. Stormlight doesn't heal instantly(Renarin/Progression is a special case), so one can still be killed if the damage is done faster than it heals. Our whole understanding of Stormlight healing(before OB, at least) was that a killing blow is still a killing blow. Sure, Kaladin healed his broken legs in five-ish minutes, but that's still a decent amount of time that his ground mobility would be suffering. Dalinar vs Chasmfiend Claw shows us that speed and mobility against something like that is vital. Had that claw slammed down, Elhokar would've died even with Plate. I really feel like the same would be true for a normal Radiant. If the blow is slightly off and it would've crippled them, by all means let them heal from it. I just feel like a killing blow should be a killing blow. They are less efficient even when a Herald holds them. (Not your point, just a thing to remember). As for your actual point, I somewhat disagree. I think the passive healing of Stormlight is a quality of the Stormlight itself(why most everybody is healthier on Roshar). I think you heal quicker when you have more Stormlight(which makes sense), so Szeth's healing was less efficient because he couldn't hold as much Stormlight as a KR can.

I just don't see those traits as gone from Shallan just because she put them in Veil and Radiant - they still exist in Shallan, and she used those traits in herself to play the part. Those traits will "come back" to Shallan (bad phrasing but what-have-you) as she realizes she can express them in her own person again. Where up until now, she's been too afraid to express those traits publicly, by accepting herself more and more, the alters will "take over" less and less. Veil and Radiant not functioning without Shallan is an absolute given - they're inventions of her. Shallan can function without the alters; she made them because she thinks she can't but - assuming of course that the end result will indeed be reintegration - one day Shallan will be there and the alters will not. I disagree that Shallan using her own traits to create alters means that those traits suddenly stopped existing in her.

I'd rephrase this to it's evidence for what they managed to preserve and can still use. They didn't have to choose just one type to keep how like they have both Blades and Plates instead of choosing between Shards. There has been a discussion why so many Shards seems to have gotten lost, but it's not like a whole category of Shards disappeared.

Indeed, and it made me wonder what happened to him in OB, given that in Kal's memories and in his brief appearance he didn't seem a Thrill addict, so he shouldn't have succumbed to possession. Also, the bulk of Sadeas's army consisted of normal people, even though the way he ran it attuned them to the Thrill. So what is going to happen to survivors? Oh, and BTW, I suspect that Amaram's flute collection was explicitely mentioned as a foreshadowing for somebody finding Hoid's flute in his effects. Also, another Kaladin's sergeant Tukks was likely a worldhopper - his appearance looks a bit "off" to Kaldin, he is unusually short and he used some odd expressions, IIRC. Though why a worldhopper would join an army fighting in some petty conflict and get himself killed in the process is beyond me. A couple of other things I have noticed on the re-reads of WoK and WoR: Kaladin remembers in WoK that _Tien_ wanted them to go to the Shattered Plains shortly before his death - another hint that Tien was a budding Radiant and was somehow drawn to Dalinar? Parshendi knew about the Honorblades. They were terrified at the evidence of surge-binding from Kaladin and Eshonai tried to calm them down with the notion that he may have had a Honorblade. Amusingly, Mr. T used the same idea as a lie to keep Szeth under his thumb. Parshendi had very well-made steel weapons decorated with beautiful glyphs when they first met the Alethi... yet they were also completely illiterate and have forgotten even the notion of written language. Venli allegedly re-invented one from scratch. So, where did their weapons come from? Diagramm is a huge organization with lots of members and resources, despite only existing for 5 years. The guy who recruited Szeth had a Soulcaster, Graves had Shards, all of T's guards who were with him in Vedenar were also members, there was a substantial cell in the warcamps, and, of course, all the "Silent Gatherers". Really odd that there wasn't a single leak.

I agree, this is very interesting and well-constructed. It opens up some interesting speculation on the remaining shards. Senility? Death? Rebirth? Reincarnation? But what's missing, for me anyway, is an explanation for why the shards would correspond to a mortal life cycle. Why is that significant to Adonalsium? Without that, this correspondence of shards to life-stages looks like coincidence. Albeit a very interesting coincidence.

No way! That's awesome.

I didn't make the connection until my second read through of Oathbringer that Taravangian was the one who quite blatantly spells out to Dalinar how spren are captured in gems for fabrials. A few short chapters later Dalinar will use this knowledge to capture Neragaoul. I think my mind skipped over it the first time because multiple characters mention spren being captured in gems throughout the book, and Dalinar misdirects us by specifically thanking Navani after the battle (because the fabrial she gave him had its gems exposed during the battle which jogged Dalinar's memory about spren being captured in gems). I'm actually curious if Taravangian info dumping this information on Dalinar when he did was for narrative convenience, or if Taravangian instructed himself to do so via The Diagram.

They are not the worst order, they are the best order, they did not betray mankind and Just because you disagree with Nalan (I do to) doesn’t mean that the Skybreakers are bad, sure they may be siding with the Voidbringers, but you must understand that the parshmen ARE the rightful owners of the world. Also I’m sure that there are many Skybreakers who didn’t swear themselves to Nale. Nale himself mentioned that MOST follow the law of the land they are in, however some have chosen to follow him.

I caught Mrs.Vivenna when she used the word Crimson to describe a fight This is gonna be embarrassing, but I noticed all the Heralds in the prologue of WoK, most notably Nale and Jezrien. I also thought it was interesting that Nale was talking to Elhokar, maybe trying to get at some fledgling Radiants? ALL OF HOID'S EPILOGUES ARE ABOUT ART! Also WTF happened to Taln's Honorblade. Last time I checked Dalinar had it. Edit: This quote 100% parallels Taln and the Heralds AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I LOVE YOU TALN

I appreciate the more in depth beta perspective on the Adolin discussion, thanks for providing that. Since the shardcast topic on "triangle that was not a triangle", I've been mulling over some deep problems I have with some of the arguments made that are "pro take the conclusion at face value". I personally think some convincing arguments can be made on why taking the romance arc at face value can be objectively considered bad writing. Time is always a problem, but I feel more compelled every day to move up my efforts in writing a post about it... When the "how" of an arc turned out can be considered bad writing from a literary perspective, then yes, I think the writing and editing process is subject to critique on that front. Yes, there has been a fair bit of, dare I say it, despondent and whining posts in this thread bemoaning what could have been, and I have been a contributor to that. But there has also been a lot of good analysis, theorizing, and writing critique going on, that you comment seems to be so dismissive of by boiling it all down to just "griping". But please stick around, because who knows, maybe you'll be the next convert

@Wit Beyond Measure I'd like to add a bit more to Pagerunner's reply. First, I'm sorry you feel people are pouncing on you. Please report relevant posts that you feel this is occurring and we will deal with them, and also, feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss further. I'd like to say you are quite valued. I saw, on the day you posted this topic, you #1 in reputation for the week. I've looked through and I think most things have remained civil. Please report stuff you think isn't. The thing is, the cosmere does have correct answers and incorrect ones, so I think in some cases it's totally fine for someone to say "Yeah, I don't know about that, and here's why." Veterans could do maybe better at explaining and try to not feel annoyed, which maybe they did. But really, there's always fresh blood and we want to encourage new ideas and thoughts. It is important for people doing "correcting" to say so with grace, and it's also important for the person being corrected to also take that with grace. No offense should be taken--though it is important for any corrections to be said respectfully. But I don't think people are offended by you, at all. Many just have a big desire for people to understand what is correct or not correct, and in the cosmere, that is a thing that we have. I would like to discuss the matter of subforums, as forum layout is a thing I've thought about a huge deal. Subforums are not inherently good. In fact, they are actually inherently bad, in my opinion, and I consistently resist adding subforums. it's a rote reaction for me. The reason is simple: the more choice there is in where things can be located, the more friction there is in a new member deciding where to post. Having too many choices is not really good. There's also the factor that I know we will be around for a long time, and Brandon will be writing books for a long time. I knew at the outset of 17th Shard that having a subforum for each book would be a horrible mistake. People would constantly place things in the wrong forum. It can be so hard, you know? With your suggested forum, even without the context of the rest of your post, I could never make such a thing. It would be confusing for people to understand what that means with other varieties of theorizing, and so many people would get that wrong. It's quite impractical. People have asked me for shipping forums. I don't want to do that either. I don't want people who feel character discussion is valuable to feel ostracized by the structure of the forum. But also, we just don't structure forums by type of discussion, but just by the book/series they are in. That structure has a lot of advantages: it's immediately understandable to anyone. I'm not saying that structure is perfect. But imagine a world where there's a forum for "Oathbringer Character Discussion" and "Oathbringer Theorizing" and maybe another with that (memes?), who knows. That quickly spirals out of control really fast if that happens per book. I don't even agree that books should have their own dedicated board. This one will go away after the spoiler period and merge with the rest of the Stormlight board. I don't know if that's perfect but surely it's better than us having seven subforums for Stormlight, one for each book, where people accidentally use later info in the older boards. (Plus, the older boards wouldn't get nearly as much use as the new ones.) This whole train of thought makes me queasy. Forum structure is really difficult and it will please no one. Some will want more structure. Some will want less. Some will want it subdivided differently. Some want something better for spoilers. All of these are important concerns and I do want people to know I listen to them. The Oathbringer subforum has been chaotic, and I don't know if there's an easy way to make it better. (Wouldn't any book release be chaos regardless, even if we subdivide it a bit?) Maybe Stormlight should get its own category of multiple forums, since it is the most popular book discussion board. And it is a worry that, in our second decade, people will feel they need to read too much to join in on some discussions if we keep merging spoiler boards like this. These are all things I think about. But, I'd say that more subforums is usually not the answer.

I can clear up some of the beta reader front. Mostly because Brandon (and the beta team) have talked publicly about the process of the beta read and what things were influenced. For one, betas were outspoken about wanting more Adolin in the books, just not quite to the level that I think that Maxal would have wanted. To me, Oathbringer had enough plot threads that did big transformative character arcs and brought people to cruxes of conscience and character. No, Adolin wasn't one of them, but Adolin did have the privilege of participating in pretty much every major storyline even if he wasn't the focal point of it. The beta draft had much less Adolin, betas complained that they wanted more scenes specifically from his point of view and Brandon did that. The Galant scene in Part 1 was added wholesale in order to give Adolin an early viewpoint and let us into his head there. Could the Sadeas murder plot have been a major plotline? Sure. Did it absolutely need to be? No, and I think it's fine that it wasn't. Is the book flawed or poorly constructed because that didn't become a major plot? In my opinion, it's not. Brandon picked what he did and didn't want to be a big deal and that one just wasn't picked. Epic fantasy series have problems with overcrowding and too many plots and characters. I think adding an Adolin plot in just because it would have been possible wouldn't have been a wise decision. And I assume Brandon agrees, because he didn't do it. I'll pull this quote from Brandon in the Beta AMA: (bolding is mine) It's not that no betas brought up Adolin or the love triangle. It's certainly not that. We had huge discussions about the love triangle, and I have a feeling that the majority of betas who made it to the end wrote at least a paragraph on their thoughts regarding the development of the characters and the arc as a whole. We didn't all agree. Many betas liked it, many didn't, some liked the idea of taking it in different directions, others thought it was fine as is. I've said before I hated the triangle all the way through WoR and Oathbringer for fear that it was playing out in straight cliches. Seeing the ending made it work for me both in hindsight and because of some of the ways Brandon changed it in Oathbringer after beta comments. (I, for one, really liked the reinforcement of Shallan's separation with two different sides of her being interested in two different people. I thought that broke some of the cliche molds that I had been seeing.) It's fine if the conclusion didn't work for you or if you felt it didn't play out right. But it's not because Oathbringer was a shoddy rush job that didn't get buffed up and edited the way it needed to be. The triangle was always going to be contentious and there will always be fans who wanted something out of a book and didn't get it. (I personally was in a bad place after Words of Radiance because that very thing happened to me there. That's another story though.) But this is the ending that Brandon likes and is proud of. He's pleased with the balance he's hit, even if there's still people who didn't like it. He got a lot of feedback on these parts of the book, probably moreso than anything else in Oathbringer, and he used that feedback to construct the ending that he wanted. I think he nailed it. You don't have to, but you should understand that Brandon's not going to apologize for the way it turned out or try to redact it and "do better in the future." He liked this ending and he's going to stand behind that, even when other people don't agree. P.S. This has nothing to do with A/S/K and this thread, but since it's in the quote I gotta brag a little bit that you know ya girl here had some influence in getting more of Renarin's powers in the book. Wasn't just that it was stuff I wanted to see as a Renarin fan, but it helped Renarin's plot to add the things that got added.

Because her intent is all about growth and change. I've actually considered this scenario a few times, and the combination of Odium and Cultivation is terrifying.

In the breakfast hall at Urithiru, a newly Ascended Dalinar explains something very important to a hungry Reshi urchin:

I made this a while ago but wasn't on the 17th shard yet, so I never posted it. I was reading Warbreaker and when it mentioned artisans script, I though it would be a great idea for a "secret language" or "code". I started designing a system that used two colored dots(ok, rectangles) to represent letters and punctuation. I then actually coded a translator that works and put together a website. I though it turned out pretty well, and while it may not be what Brandon had in mind when he wrote the book, it looks pretty cool. I would love to see what everyone thinks of this. Here is the link to the website: http://aqanta.com/cosmere/colors/

Patrick Rothfuss Part 1 I have stolen Orbs from dead Alethkar Kings. I have destroyed the royal balconies of Gavilar's castle. I wielded Nightblood and left with both my sanity and my life. I was named Truthless at a younger age than most people begin to Surgebind. I tread paths by moonlight that other's fear to walk during the day. I have spoken to Heralds, regretted murder, and made lashes that made Jezrien weep. My name is Szeth. You may have heard of me. Part II COMING SOON. VERY SOON. EARLIER THAN PART III SOON. Part III STILL COMING SOON. LATER THEN PART II, BUT STILL SOON. WITHIN TEN YEARS OR SO.

When you spend 7 weeks in Trigonometry class arguing about the properties of geometric shapes, and keep thinking how rubbish a Rithmatist you'd make, due to increasingly poor diagrams.

When you spend the whole time with your friends urging them on to finish the current installments of the Cosmere so that you can rant, theorize, and make awesome inside jokes with them.