• entries
    11
  • comments
    7
  • views
    1,441

About this blog

A place for me to record my thoughts after overthinking different aspects of the cosmere.

Entries in this blog

Jofwu

u/Aradanftw on Reddit put together a post converting Roshar's spheres to US Dollars. So this is 99% their work and not my own! But I thought it was interesting and something that I might want to reference more often down the road. Perhaps I'll remember to add more things to it.

My main "contribution" was a push to reduce the values by an order of magnitude. The diamond chip was originally set at $2, based on the price of a loaf of bread. I'm not sure Aradanftw was entirely on board with this opinion, but the prices I've posted below are 1/10th of that. I'll admit that I'm not great with economics and inflation values, so I'm happy to be corrected on this. But it seems to me like we should compare the prices to Earth prices at a similar level of technological development? So I'm thinking we should look more at 19th century (-ish) US dollars rather than 21st century US dollars? The price of bread in early/pre-industrial society is different than modern society. Even now you can go to non-Western developing countries where a bit of bread is going to be a lot less than $2. And, admittedly, part of the drive for this is that $2 as you SMALLEST denomination of currency seems off to me.

Aside from that price shift, I've also reorganized everything from lowest value to highest, and reworked some of the details. So assuming 1 diamond chip = a loaf of bread = $0.20, we've got the following prices:


Rosharan spheres to US Dollars:

  • 1 diamond chip (smallest denomination) - $0.20
  • Apothecary bandages, per armlength (1 diamond chip) - $0.20
  • Candied fruit (1 diamond chip) - $0.20
  • Shallan's trip to the Palanaeum (2 diamond chips) - $0.40
     
  • Bridgeman slave daily wages (1 diamond mark) - $1
  • Bridgeman daily wages (2 diamond marks) - $2
  • Tozbek's sailors' daily wages (1 ruby chip) - $2
  • Shallan's slaves' daily wages (1 ruby chip + 5 ruby chips toward slave debt) - $2 + $10 toward slave debt
  • Apothecary needle and thread (2 diamond marks) - $2
  • Soldier's daily wages (5 diamond marks) - $5
  • Bowl of firemoss, each (1 garnet broam for three bowls)- $6.60 per bowl
     
  • Adolin's tip to Kaladin (1 emerald chip) - $10
  • Apothecary larmic mucus (2 ruby marks) - $20
  • Mraize tips Mem for getting the aether from his suit (3 ruby marks) - $30
  • Apothecary lister's oil (2 sapphire marks) - $50
  • Shallan's mistaken offer for candied fruit (1 emerald mark) - $50
  • Apothecary knobweed sap, per bottle (2 sapphire marks) $50
     
  • Copy of Words of Radiance, found by Gaz (2 sapphire broams) - $200
  • 1 emerald broam (largest denomination) - $200
  • Palanaeum alcove rental (2 sapphire marks) - $500
  • Shallan's weekly stipend (3 emerald broams) - $600
  • Renegotiated price for Shallan's books (2 emerald broams and 3 sapphire broams) - $700
     
  • Tvlakv's trade wagon and 5 slaves (5 emerald broams) - $1,000
  • Artmyrn's initial offer for Shallan's books (10 emerald broams) - $2,000
  • Shallan's aluminum necklass (10 emerald broams) - $2,000
  • Gaz's debt (80 ruby broams) - $3,200
  • Wikim and Balat's knives, each (20 emerald broams) - $4,000
     
  • Dalanar's offered price to purchase Sadaes's bridgemen, each (60 emerald broams) - $12,000
     
  • Palanaeum chit of admittance (1,000 sapphire broams) - $100,000
  • Sadaes would reject even if Dalinar this much for bridgemen, each (1,000 emerald broams) - $200,000
     

Again, I'm not ecoomist or historian, but I think these sound somewhat reasonable? Could be shifted around a little one way or the other, but I think the order of magnitude feels right.

There are people (in extreme poverty) in our world who live on $2 per day. The wages for the sailors does seem a bit low, but both they and the bridgemen also essentially have free housing and (presumably) meals. So that's more of a stipend than a wage. Seems like a very reasonable wage for what is essentially a pre-industrial indentured servant?

The minimum pricepoint of $0.20 STILL seems weirdly high, but I don't think we can go much lower. The bread doesn't seem bad, though it's odd to me candied fruit costs the same. What do you charge for a non-candied piece of fruit? Do people just not do that? They'd buy more than one piece? Perhaps the people at the bottom of society tend to just barter goods directly instead of using spheres.

Books costing a few hundred dollars apiece seems somewhat reasonable? I expect books cost even more, prior to the printing press. But then Roshar is a bit more culturally developed despite that technology, so demand is probably bringing that price down.

Dalinar's offer to buy the bridgemen is crazy. There were about 1,000 bridgemen I believe, which puts the total cost (if Sadeas had agreed) at $12 million. Apparently Dalinar could afford that (if only barely) while Sadeas's counter-offer of $200 million was going too far. So that's interesting.

Jofwu

Updated my Stormlight Archive timeline again this weekend. Not an exciting update, but figured I'd write a post anyways.

The main changes on this version involved reconciling my timeline with (what I understand to be) Karen's timeline from the Oathbringer beta read, which Alice and Lyndsey have been referencing on their Tor Oathbringer Reread. They're almost through the entire book now, so I had quite a bit to work through. I shifted around a few of my dates to match Karen's where possible... Unfortunately, there are several things that I strongly disagree with, and so I have stuck with my own dates in these cases. At some point I want to write up my issues in a concise way and send it to Karen. Some are relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but others could potentially matter in one way or another, I think. Of course, it's worth mentioning that this is just supposedly the beta timeline--entirely possible the final/official timeline has many things corrected. In any case, my main issues include:

  • I may have mentioned this previously, (I pointed it out to Peter loooong ago) but Shallan's OB Part 1 chapters are off by a couple of days, relative to when the Everstorms and the first highstorm are referenced.
  • Several of Dalinar's flashbacks seem to be a little off. For most it's maybe within reasonable rounding error, but there was at least 1 or 2 that's clearly off by a few years. Maybe a typo?
  • I finally worked through all of the Moash stuff, and I think some of her dates there are a little odd.
  • The biggest and most complicated problem is Oathbringer Part 4... I was concerned that the Shadesmar sequence didn't line up right, and it seems I was entirely correct. There are references clearly linking the Shadesmar group from the day they enter to the day they reach Celebrant. The time spent on Honor's Path is a little vague. And then there are clear references linking the group from Honor's Path to Thaylen City. There's not any contradictions. The problem is that the travel times on the two Shadesmar ships is HIGHLY inconsistent. They spend something like 2 or 3 days traveling from Riino's lighthouse to Celebrant... And then they spend several weeks traveling from Celebrant to... somewhere nearly Thaylenah. The exact locations of the lighthouse and the place where the group abandons ship are not entirely clear. But honestly, if you look at a map and pick a borderline-unreasonable, best case scenario for each... It doesn't make sense at all. Especially considering there's an explicit mention that Honor's Path is significantly faster than Ico's ship. Oh well... Maybe I can convince them to make an edit for the 10th anniversary edition. :)

That's all the negative stuff. I was pleased to find that I was fairly close (or dead on) with most of my dates--particularly for the Part 3 finale. Peter also answered some questions I had about a few minor things, so those are worked out. I've added Kaladin's Oathbringer memories/flashbacks, so with the Moash stuff done that should be everything from OB!

The reread hasn't quite covered the end of the book, and it LOOKS like Karen shifted the Battle of Thaylen City back an extra day from where I have it. But I'm going to say we're good enough for now. Unless there's some major WoB or new revelation, the next stop will probably be a Stormlight 4 update!

Jofwu

This comes up in conversations occasionally and I've been meaning to write up a concise and simple explanation for a while now. So here we go.

But before I say anything else, I feel like I need to emphasize that I don't want to come across like I'm complaining about the books. Stormlight Archive is my absolute favorite series and this is such an obscure detail. Astronomy and orbital mechanics is a low-key passion for me (I blame Kerbal Space Program, mostly), so when I'm reading a book that I love and see information about this topic I can't help but dig into it. Brandon and his team do a LOT of work to make all of his fantastical worldbuilding make sense. They can't knock it out of the park every time. Maybe they'll look into this when doing the Stormlight leatherbounds and find a way to "fix" it. Maybe they won't--Roshar's moons are really imaginative, so why throw that out over some minor issues that 99% of readers will never even stop to consider? I'm just writing this up because I enjoy exploring the "science" of these books. Sometimes it doesn't work out nicely... and that's okay. It's fun to do the math regardless, and I'm just thankful Brandon put enough into the books that I can overthink it this much. :)

The Situation

I want this to be accessible for people who know very little about astronomy, so let's start with some quick basics. Below is a simple image of Roshar from "above". We're looking "down" on the North pole here.You can see which way it rotates relative to the Sun. You can see where the sun is setting and where it's rising. Note that the continent is actually in the southern hemisphere (I think it's one of the TWoK maps that shows the equator along the edges in a subtle way). For simplicity, in this post I'm just going to look at points along the equator. Also note that the continent spans about 120 degrees longitude, and Iri/Shinovar are about 90 degrees longitude behind the Shattered Plains. In other words, sunset on the Shattered plains is noon in Shinovar. Midnight in Shinovar is dawn on the Shattered Plains.

1.PNG

We know that Roshar's moons orbit the planet once per day (every 20 Rosharan hours) because they rise and set the same time every night. This is something the books are never 100% explicit on, but it's heavily implied and has been confirmed. (Technically, they orbit a *bit* faster and precess slightly so that they keep their position relative to the Sun at all times of the year.) This nearly implies a geosynchronous orbit, where a satellite ends up over the same spot on the ground every day. But it can't be that or the moons would be up all day and night. Viewed from the ground they'd just sort of wobble back and forth around a fixed point in the sky. And that's not the case. They rise in the east, set in the west, and are only up for a few hours. (TWoK 2 & 23, among others) This means they are in a retrograde orbit (they go around clockwise) and it means they're in an elliptical orbit with the low point on the nighttime side of Roshar. This is what you need to get such behavior. Here's a very simplified approximation of one such moon:

2.PNG

There are 3 of them of course. The Arcanum Unbounded star chart of Roshar suggests they are all at slightly different orientations relative to the sun. They are also inclined orbits, which is necessary to have the rise/set in the east/west for a viewer in the southern hemisphere. But for this post we're just going to keep it simple and pretend they're on the same plane as the equator.

The order and timing of the moons as observed from the Shattered Plains is (and I'm using a 20-hour clock)... Salas rises just after sunset, around 15:00. Salas is up for about 2 Rosharan hours. Salas sets and we have an hour of darkness before Nomon rises. ("the hateful hour") Nomon rises around 18:00 and is up for 3-4 hours. Nomon sets as Mishim rises, around 1:00 or 2:00, and Mishim sets at sunrise (5:00).

So why don't they make sense?

Let's zero-in on the first moon, Salas. The moon should JUST become visible on the horizon at sunset, so the viewer's line of site looks something like this.

3.PNG

Now we skip ahead 2 hours. Roshar turns about 36 degrees during that time (2 / 20 hours = 10%), so I've put an X at our viewer's new location. At this time, Salas is setting behind the horizon. So their line of sight looks like this. So consider what a person at points Y (2 hours behind the Shattered Plains) and Z (Shinovar) are seeing. It's pretty clear that they can't possibly see the moon rise at sunset. In Shinovar, Salas will be high in the sky already in their afternoon.

4.PNG

Now, to be fair, the orbital path that I've drawn for Salas is somewhat arbitrary here. But the fundamental problem can't be fixed with a different orbit. If you want to slow the moon down, so that it's simply visible around sunset in Shinovar, that means it's going to be visible longer in the Shattered Plains' night sky.

5.PNG

Solutions?

I can't help but wonder what could be done differently. If you were going to try and "fix" the books, what approach would you take? (Aside from the option of just ignoring the problem and not thinking about it too much)

The simple option is to just make the orbits work for the Shattered Plains and say that they ARE indeed not visible for some of western Roshar. Maybe they are visible during the day. The problem with this is that Szeth seems to suggest they don't do that. The Shin are actually where we get a name ("hateful hour") for the time between Salas and Nomon. But that could be changed. And there are some other timings that would need to be adjusted, but not too many.

Alternatively, you might be able to push all of them back in their orbits a bit so that they all show up in the night sky for everyone across the continent. This would probably result in them moving faster across the sky. And it would probably mean that eastern Roshar has a few hours of darkness between sunset and Salas while western Roshar has a few hours of darkness between Mishim and sunrise.

Another option is to have them move more slowly. It wouldn't be hard to have them set to all rise at roughly the same time, if you turn the orbit the right way. It simply means they're going to be relatively high in the sky for that portion, and that means they're going to be visible for much longer. Their movement would almost be more from Roshar turning than from the moons' own movement. (i.e. more like the way our own moon moves across the sky) This means their visibility will overlap and it means we have to toss out the hateful hour.

Of course, if someone sees something I'm missing, please let me know. :) I HAVE simplified this by keeping things on Roshar's equatorial plane, but I'm fairly confident that you get more or less the same thing if we incline the orbits a little and view the moons from a point in the southern hemisphere.

Jofwu

Globe of Roshar

Finally got around to something I've wanted to do for a long time. Make a globe of Roshar!

The site doesn't work very well on mobile, so here's some images:

Screenshot 2019-09-20 at 8.49.57 PM.png Screenshot 2019-09-20 at 8.51.39 PM.png

First need to say thanks to u/Stoneward13 on Reddit who created the beautiful high-resolution map that I used for this. 

The trick was getting the projection right. @Otto Didact identified the map from Oathbringer as an "azimuthal equidistant" projection while the "Map To Globe" site I used required an equirectangular projection. With a bit of patience I finally discovered a way in QGIS to mark coordinates on a raster image and have that program pump out the equirectangular projection!

So here you have it. I've positioned it at the appropriate latitude, with the equator passing through the center of Kadrix island. To anybody not aware, yes, Roshar is mostly ocean. Brandon has stated that there are no other major landmasses. It's possible that ice caps exist, (seems like Yalb mentions tales of a southern ice cap?) but I haven't speculated on that. Maybe I'll circle back around to it. The continent is a bit smaller than Asia. More details on that sort of thing here: 

Under the "Options' menu you can toggle longitude/latitude lines. (if comparing with the Oathbringer map, typical lines won't line up right because Roshar uses 200 "degrees" in a circle) And play with some other tweaks, like lighting. 

But my favorite feature is the "Measure distance" button. Click that and enter Roshar's radius (about 5663 km) and it report the distance between two points you select.

 

Jofwu

Okay, another little Stormlight Timeline update.

The latest version is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zq5bJoKE83ggDCjH43i1hZi0CIpB2iAx7v37zQPVFK0

Additions

I finally took the time to actually finish the timeline. Most of the Urithiru plot in Part 4 still wasn't in there. Some of Dalinar's flashbacks which were tied to Part 4 dates (including the Nightwatcher visit), weren't in there. Moash and Szeth weren't in there. And most of the interludes weren't in there. That has been remedied!

There are two (or three?) Kaladin flashbacks that I haven't attempted to place yet, though these would be heavy speculation. Otherwise, that's pretty much everything I can think of that ought to be in it. If anyone ever sees something that seems missing please let me know!

Reconciliation Effort

The folks doing Tor's Oathbringer reread have access to a preliminary timeline produced by Brandon's team, and they've been sharing the dates they have for each chapter in their weekly reread posts. So I finally took some time to reconcile my timeline with those dates. For the most part this just involved shifting things around within the bounds of the assumptions I originally made. Tricky because of how many strings there are tying events together, but it all worked out. LOTS of Oathbringer events got shifted one way or the other, though very few of them were affected in a significant way. The vast majority were a matter of some thing shifting a few days sooner or later. In any case, my timeline MOSTLY matches theirs now. (and thus, hopefully, the official timeline) When Tor gets to the end of the book, I'll make sure to reconcile what I have for the remainder of the book!

Timeline Issues

There are a FEW things that appear to be errors, so I've stuck with my own guesses in those cases. This was another big goal of doing this. I've known that there are some issues with the timeline Tor is using. Going through one chapter at a time and comparing their date with my own (and my basis) allowed me to pinpoint exactly where issues were found. Notable issues that need a closer look include:

  • Some of Dalinar's flashbacks seem to list the wrong year
  • Jasnah's birthday is off. TWoK stated that she was 34 years old, but that doesn't match up with where Dalinar's flashbacks place her birth. I'm guessing TWoK may need to be retconned to make her a year younger. That's a simple fix compared to reworking some of the flashback continuity.
  • Some of Shallan's activity in Oathbringer Part 1 appears to be off. But this is just official dates in the background. I don't think the book would actually be affected.
  • I think there's a few issues with the dates for Moash. Again, nothing that would affect the book.
  • The Shadesmar sequence doesn't match up to me. The description of how much time passes from their entrance to their exit is a bit shorter, in my opinion, than what the timeline requires. I think Brandon may need to massage some of the descriptions of how much time is passing.
  • Some of the Everstorms seem to hit quite a bit off from where they SHOULD. This mostly doesn't bother me. The book states that they vary a bit. But the timing of the last one in Kholinar looks strange to me.
  • Szeth and the Skybreakers spent FOUR days flying from Purelake to Marat. They make several stops, but it still seems a little weird compared to other flight times that we have.

 

Jofwu

I've been itching to do a quick update post on my Stormlight Archive Timeline as I've hit a big milestone. In my last post on the timeline I mentioned wanting to convert from a spreadsheet to a database. And I've done it!

Link to the newest version: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zq5bJoKE83ggDCjH43i1hZi0CIpB2iAx7v37zQPVFK0

Back End Changes

Previously, every entry in the timeline utilized a single row in the spreadsheet. This put some restrictions on how the date was calculated and it meant my list of sources were jammed together. In my database I've broken everything down into three tables. An "event" is simply some event that occurs (along with a category for sorting and any book chapters that the event occurs in). Next is a table of "intervals" which define the number of days (and any range of error) between two events. Lastly is a table of "sources" which link any relevant sources and my notes to each interval.

Now I can make a date dependent on multiple intervals (it uses the average, more or less). This is very useful for something like Gavilar's assassination, where we several potential date ranges based on different sources. The database is able to find the average date and the overlapping error range so that we get something as specific as possible. I can also create a new record for every source I use, which makes them a lot easier to organize and sort through. One downside is that I simply have a local copy of the database, and updating is a manual process. If I make changes, I have to export new spreadsheets and paste them in on top of the old copies. This isn't as bad as it sounds though, because I wanted to separate the presentation from the calculations regardless. The final product now is mostly just text, which means the Google Sheet loads up and operates a lot faster. Conditional formatting slows it down, but that was going to be there regardless. (And I can always spit out an unformatted version for maximum speed.) It also means you can use Ctrl+F to atually search the document, which is super helpful!

Front End Changes

In this latest version I've added a few more events than I had previously, and made a few corrections. All small stuff for the most part. The most notable additions are some Pre-History events which are very speculative. But we DID get some more details on the Desolations via WoB, and after some good conversation in the "History of Roshar" Shardcasts, I felt like there was enough information for it not to look stupid. :)

I've also added a few "filter" options. Under the "Spoiler Filter" sheet you can check/uncheck boxes to control which event categories are displayed. Theoretically this can be used to hide spoilers, though obviously you can use that however you want. More interesting is a filter (in the top right corner) which allows users to filter out events that are below different levels of "confidence". The color of event ID numbers gives a hint at how confident I am in their date. Something marked 1 is absolutely known with explicit support while something marked 5 was pulled out of thin air for the sake of putting something on the timeline. You can now use this little dropdown to hide events below a confidence threshhold.

One other change is that the event numbers act as hyperlinks to cells on other sheets. If you click the event ID number for something on the timeline, it will pop you over onto that event's row(s) on the References sheet. So you can instantly jump over and see what sources were used to nail down each event.

Lastly, there's an Ages sheet, which lists the age of each character (with a known age) next to each event. The Ages column on the Timeline sheet references these numbers, though it can also be used if you want to directly compare characters side by side.

Future Plans

I've still got some Oathbringer events missing, so the next notable update will happen whenever I can finish those off. Many of those that are missing simply didn't have enough information (that I could find) to place the event. The good news is that Tor's Oathbringer reread posts have been listing dates for each chapter based on the gamma read timeline. I'm not assuming these are canonical, but they make for a great basis in lieu of something more specific. So I'm currently working through these, trying to reconcile our timelines.

The bad news is that the Tor Reread only moves at 1 or 2 chapters per week, and they're only about 2/3 through the book! Also, I don't agree with every date provided. There are occaisional small discrepancies that I think will need to be adjusted on Karen's end (and other cases where mine need adjusting, but that's easy to fix...). In and of itself this isn't a big deal. The problem is that I don't know how the gamma timeline is CONNECTED, so if one date is wrong I have no way of knowing how a change there will impact subsequent dates.

So it's going to be a while before (1) Tor's Reread reaches the end of the book and (2) I am able to finish filling in my timeline with that information. Most of the holes in my timeline are from Part 4, so I'm looking forward to that. I very well may update my timeline periodically, if I feel like I've added/changed anything significant. I will update the version number in the spreadsheet's title when I do this. But I likely won't mention those updates here or in the forums as it will just be dates added/changed. When I AM totally caught up I will probably update my timeline post in the forums. I'll also probably make another blog post that covers any discrepancies I think I've found, either with the gamma timeline or with contradictions in the book itself.

Jofwu

Stormlight Archive Timeline

Since this has been primarily a personal project, I figure it deserved a post in this blog as well. I'm not going to talk about the content of the timeline itself here. This is more about the background and (ongoing) development of it.

Link to the timeline for reference: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wdigy6ZNX4EGRAaUskfM0LXNANksyM1JintSn4yKSyM/edit#gid=2005334307

Inspiration

There were two primary inspirations for creating this timeline.

First was this Wheel of Time timeline, which mostly just made me jealous that we didn't have a similar overall timeline in the works.

Second was the Words of Radiance Timeline that was primarily created by WeiryWriter. Between the Everstorm countdown and a list of highstorm dates revealed in an epigraph, were were able to pin down most of the events in Words of Radiance with great accuracy. Weiry had started a timeline for The Way of Kings, but there just wasn't much concrete information to work with in that book, unfortunately. Because these timelines were living on Coppermind, we didn't want to post anything there that was more assumption than fact.

Concept

So the idea here is to have a timeline that DOES allow for assumptions and guesswork. But it was important to me that the whole thing be as well-researched and supported as possible. I wanted to support every date on the timeline with some kind of sourced information. Assumptions needed to provide the supporting evidence. And the confidence or certainty in an event needed to be transparent.

I began by importing the Words of Radiance timeline and building out my concept for how this would work. There are two ideas that stood out: "events" and "intervals". An "event" is some event that happens in-world. A point in time that happens on a specific date. An "interval" is some period of time that passes in between events.

Both events and intervals can have a "range" or "error" associated with them. This is introduced by uncertainty and assumptions. For example, if a flashback happened "Five Years Ago", we can use an interval of exactly 5 years... But we know that this doesn't mean precisely 5 years. Brandon isn't being that specific. So we attach some wiggle room to the interval. Instead of an interval of "minus 5 years" we use "minus 5 years, plus or minus 2.5 months". This error introduced by interval uncertainty factors into the dates themselves, of course. And it adds up. So if there was some event that happened "one year plus or minus 2 months" after the flashback of that last example, this event now has +/- 4.5 months of error with respect to the event that the flashback date is based on.

The range alone doesn't account for what I call "confidence". There's a bit of gut feel involved here, and it's certainly true that more error/range tends to come with less confidence. But there are certainly cases where something with a range is still something we can be fairly confident in.

Development

After importing Words of Radiance I began to work on The Way of Kings, which is where things got really challenging. You have to really dig into that book, digging for any scrap you can get. For example, at some point there is an implication that Sadeas's bridge crews are supplemented with new men on chachel, the third day of the week. We can use this tidbit later in the book to pin down the days that Lopen and Shen join Bridge Four. Another thing I had to do a lot was work backwards. Most of Kaladin's TWoK timeline is actually worked backwards from the end of the book. Because the time that passes during Part 1 is incredibly ambiguous.

There's also some contradictions, or just things that don't seem to fit very well. A comment by Elhokar at the first feast put the Chasmfiend hunt disaster on a date that doesn't work with the story, for example. Another thing involving the Chasmfiend hunt--Kaladin was strung up for the highstorm on that same day, which doesn't entirely make sense because Sadeas was out on the hunt. Prior to the release of Oathbringer, Karen Ahlstrom gave us some tidbits that helped pin down some of the dates. This helped a lot. Some of them I wasn't entirely sure about, and I regret that I didn't keep better record of those disagreements. In any case, I've tried my best to align my timeline with hers and make note of any clear contradictions that exist.

I got some help pulling together notes for chronology in Oathbringer. It isn't, unfortunately, as precise as WoR was, but Brandon is more free with mentioning the passage of time at least, and Karen seems to be doing a pretty good job of tweaking the numbers so that it makes sense. I have not worked out all of my timeline to match her dates yet, however, because there are a few tweaks here or there that I think need to be made. In any case, I've still got a bit more content from Oathbringer that needs to be worked out.

Issues

One frustrating thing about the timeline is that it's SLOW. It takes forever to open/load, and this is only going to get worse with more books. The calculations that happen in the spreadsheet aren't terrible, but every row of the sheet does have more calculations going on than you might think. And on the timeline sheet there's a lot of string concatenations that slow things down pretty badly.

I'm also frustrated by the way each entry has to exist on a single row. There are some cases where an event is based on TWO other events/intervals, and the only way to do this is by doing the math manually. This gets dangerous because many thing in the timeline are subject to change, so a shift in one of those dependencies can cause an error and I wouldn't know it readily. The sources and notes are also crammed into a single cell, which is terribly sloppy organization.

Adding new rows has also caused some problems. Each entry has to be referenced by an ID, and I'm uncomfortable creating these manually for fear of making a mistake.

Future Plans

To solve a lot of these problems, I've been looking at moving the whole thing to an offline relational database. Anytime I made a change I would have to manually update the spreadsheet posted online, but I think it should be easy enough to automate most of that process.

The idea is to have 3 separate tables for "events", "intervals", and "sources". Each one has a unique ID. Events are linked to one or more interval--it uses the average resultant date if so, and the overlap of their ranges to determine error. Intervals are linked to one or more sources. I don't have to put events/intervals/sources in some logical row on a spreadsheet. I can just add new ones to the end, letting the database assign them a unique ID. I should be able to build an interface for inputting this info so that I don't have to add it directly to a table myself.

From there it's a simple query to compile everything. And with all of the information in a database I should be able to do a lot of other cool stuff that would be harder to do in the original spreadsheet. For example, I'd like to see what happens if I filter out everything below some confidence threshold. Because the information is more transparent, and not put together by a chain of concatenations, I can do some other cool stuff like create links between an entry on the timeline and the source info.

Here's an output from the (very much work in progress) new version I'm working on: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zq5bJoKE83ggDCjH43i1hZi0CIpB2iAx7v37zQPVFK0/edit#gid=856252766

All this to say, not much should change to the front end of the timeline. But there might be a bit more transparency/functionality, and inputting new data should be a cleaner process.

Anything else to say? I don't think so. Feel free to ask questions though.

Jofwu

Put together this spreadsheet based on the Statistical Analysis data on Coppermind: Stormlight Analysis (2018-9-7).xlsx. The Oathbringer data I entered myself when the book was released, so I feel pretty confident in that. Not certain about the other two, but I expect they're fairly accurate. Had to enter in the Edgedancer data for this myself, along with character genders. Otherwise it was just minor edits, separating the data, etc.

Some fun charts I put together with it below. Let me know if you'd like to see any other interesting comparisons and don't feel like doing it yourself. :)

Spoilers: There aren't any real spoilers below, UNLESS you don't want to know which characters appear in future books or how much screen time they get. If you don't want to know that, you've been warned.

AFE5l7EVXsj4AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC

F8QEyr+hpjl6AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC

99f8HTAHzYob4Ps0AAAAASUVORK5CYII=

(as someone pointed out on Discord, I've lumped femalen listeners in with female. might be some other odd cases that I overlooked.)

UaX331VQ8AACC7r7766v8BZw+nDDTD8FgAAAAASU

wE3NwOAUvHHBAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==

8fsavsCCr6nJEAAAAASUVORK5CYII=

Jofwu

Roshar Distances

Distances between several locations on Roshar, in miles.

Full sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19ZZPDVrgVN3eKb6q9epCvTkRWSonkXN8CH69dToWcfM/edit#gid=0

(really just go there, it's much better)

      location B Rall Elorim Kasitor NW Shinovar coastal mountains W Shinovar coastal mountains SW Shinovar coastal mountains W Steen W Tukar S Frostlands Shallow Crypts New Natanan Dawn's Shadow NE tip east coast peninsula NE Herdaz SE Aimia Shinovar coast Dumadari E Akak Hearthstone Shattered Plains
      lat 0 -3 -4 -10 -16 -19 -23 -29 -23 -16 -14 -5 -2 -14 -14 -21 -3 -8 -19
      long -14 -18 -24 -28 -27 -29 -26 26 35 37 33 34 22 -28 -31 15 25 21 31
location A lat long distance                                      
Rall Elorim 0 -14   0 552 1187 1879 2237 2610 2809 4852 5439 5619 5223 5304 3979 2150 2384 3745 4313 3922 5066
Kasitor -3 -18   552 0 668 1327 1717 2095 2346 4855 5551 5843 5481 5688 4403 1611 1835 3849 4724 4265 5245
NW Shinovar coastal mountains -4 -24   1187 668 0 790 1362 1733 2108 5174 5962 6353 6025 6317 5057 1182 1329 4294 5372 4881 5726
W Shinovar coastal mountains -10 -28   1879 1327 790 0 670 999 1448 4918 5800 6336 6087 6584 5454 442 538 4253 5733 5150 5683
SW Shinovar coastal mountains -16 -27   2237 1717 1362 670 0 381 778 4340 5253 5856 5663 6294 5319 242 451 3812 5555 4911 5204
W Steen -19 -29   2610 2095 1733 999 381 0 513 4209 5143 5798 5649 6362 5489 560 584 3814 5699 5029 5154
W Tukar -23 -26   2809 2346 2108 1448 778 513 0 3707 4646 5320 5198 5965 5211 1011 1094 3387 5386 4696 4683
S Frostlands -29 26   4852 4855 5174 4918 4340 4209 3707 0 946 1695 1757 2747 3005 4572 4759 1225 2873 2361 1173
Shallow Crypts -23 35   5439 5551 5962 5800 5253 5143 4646 946 0 794 1011 1990 2653 5480 5682 1704 2419 2131 563
New Natanan -16 37   5619 5843 6353 6336 5856 5798 5320 1695 794 0 451 1254 2206 6069 6301 2088 1907 1858 654
Dawn's Shadow -14 33   5223 5481 6025 6087 5663 5649 5198 1757 1011 451 0 1000 1767 5860 6113 1851 1481 1409 584
NE tip east coast peninsula -5 34   5304 5688 6317 6584 6294 6362 5965 2747 1990 1254 1000 0 1358 6456 6739 2586 1010 1444 1576
NE Herdaz -2 22   3979 4403 5057 5454 5319 5489 5211 3005 2653 2206 1767 1358 0 5428 5727 2214 348 672 2093
SE Aimia -14 -28   2150 1611 1182 442 242 560 1011 4572 5480 6069 5860 6456 5428 0 300 4010 5679 5052 5415
Shinovar coast -14 -31   2384 1835 1329 538 451 584 1094 4759 5682 6301 6113 6739 5727 300 0 4263 5976 5343 5649
Dumadari -21 15   3745 3849 4294 4253 3812 3814 3387 1225 1704 2088 1851 2586 2214 4010 4263 0 2228 1551 1441
E Akak -3 25   4313 4724 5372 5733 5555 5699 5386 2873 2419 1907 1481 1010 348 5679 5976 2228 0 703 1871
Hearthstone -8 21   3922 4265 4881 5150 4911 5029 4696 2361 2131 1858 1409 1444 672 5052 5343 1551 703 0 1572
Shattered Plains -19 31   5066 5245 5726 5683 5204 5154 4683 1173 563 654 584 1576 2093 5415 5649 1441 1871 1572 0
Jofwu

Some calculations I did a while back. Was planning to do more with the moons, but I just haven't had time and figured it was worth going ahead and posting this here as is.

Given

  1. Surface gravity on Roshar is 0.7 g (source: Arcanum Unbounded)

  2. Roshar's radius is 5663 km (source: JordanCon 2018)

  3. This map of Roshar (minor WoR spioler) gives both latitude and longitude lines. The planet can be broken into 200 "squares" horizontally and 100 "squares" vertically. (source: Peter on Reddit) This map of Roshar (an azumithal equidistant projection) helps to place the equator as the latitude line passing through the southern tip of Kadrix island.

  4. One Rosharan solar day is 20 Rosharan hours. The moons have an orbital period of one solar day.

Assumptions

  1. The "standard cosmere" gravity is 1 g = 9.81 m/s2 (surface gravity on Earth)

  2. The "standard cosmere" size refers to planetary radius (and circumference) and is R = 6371 km (Earth's radius)

  3. The gravitational constant, G, remains unchanged

Units

Units are "real" units unless defined below.

  1. 1 Rdeg (Rosharan degrees) = π/100 radians (200 Rdeg in a circle)

  2. 1 Rhour (Rosharan hour) = 3473 seconds (calculation)

Calculations

Size of Roshar (planet)

Radius = 5663 km (88.8% of Earth  radius. This is roughly in line with Khriss's estimate that Roshar's radius is 0.9 R in Arcanum Unbounded.) 

Diameter = 11 330 km (88.8% of Earth diameter)

Circumference = 35 580 km (88.8% of Earth circumference)

Surface Area = 4 * π * (radius)2 = 4.030 × 108 square km (79% of Earth surface area)

Volume = 4 / 3 * π * (radius)3 = 7.608 × 1011 cubic km (70% of Earth volume)

Mass Calculations

Surface Gravity = 0.7 * g = 6.86 m/s2 (70% of Earth surface gravity)

Mass = (surface gravity) * (radius)2 / G = 3.296×1024 kg (55% of Earth mass)

Density = mass / volume = 4.333 g/cm3 (79% of Earth density)

Characteristics of Roshar (continent)

Northernmost point: northern tip of Iri @ 2 Rdeg N = 3.6 deg N

Including islands: northern tip of Kadrix island @ 3 Rdeg N = 5.4 deg N

Southernmost point: southern tip of Frostlands @ 30 Rdeg S = 54 deg S

Including islands: southern tip of Thaylenah @ 32 Rdeg S = 57.6 deg S

Easternmost point: New Natanan (and Frostlands coast) @ 37 Rdeg E = 66.6 deg E

Westernmost point: eastern tip of Steen @ 29 Rdeg W = 52.2 deg W

Including islands: eastern tip of Aimia @ 38 Rdeg W = 68.4 deg W

Furthest distance: west coast of Shinovar to tip of unclaimed NE peninsula = 10 610 km (calculation)

Size Comparrisons

By u/Shagomir on Reddit, based on this Mollewide (equal-area) map:

8Z10QRk.png

Each pixel on the map is approximately 78.25 km2

Major regions:

Region Area Comparison Area
Roshar (Total) 414,030,000 km2 Earth 510,060,000 km2
Roshar Oceans 373,780,000 km2 Earth Oceans 361,900,000 km2
Roshar (Continent) 40,250,000 km2 Asia 43,820,000 km2
Aimia 984,000 km2 New Guinea 786,000 km2
Thaylenah 414,000 km2 Sumatra 443,000 km2
Purelake 1,160,000 km2 Caspian Sea 371,000 km2
Sea of Spears 129,000 km2 Lake Superior 82,100 km2

Size of countries:

Region Area
Unclaimed 8,649,000 km2
Alethkar 7,134,000 km2
Jah Keved 5,553,000 km2
Iri 2,473,000 km2
Tu Bayla 2,040,000 km2
Reshi Isles 1,582,000 km2
Shinovar 1,407,000 km2
Azir 1,343,000 km2
Herdaz 1,155,000 km2
Babatharnam 1,107,000 km2
Rira 1,056,000 km2
Aimia 984,000 km2
Tukar 702,000 km2
Emul 596,000 km2
Marat 524,000 km2
Greater Hexi 454,000 km2
Thaylenah 414,000 km2
Yezier 396,000 km2
Marabethia 394,000 km2
Yulay 393,000 km2
Tashikk 364,000 km2
Triax 336,000 km2
Liafor 319,000 km2
Desh 230,000 km2
Steen 156,000 km2
Alm 144,000 km2
Bavland 141,000 km2
Tu Fallia 127,000 km2
Shattered Plains     80,000 km2

List of comparable countries on Earth:

Country Area
Russia 16,377,742 km2
United States 9,147,593 km2
Australia 7,633,565 km2
India 2,973,190 km2
Argentina 2,736,690 km2
Mexico 1,943,945 km2
Iran 1,531,595 km2
South Africa 1,214,470 km2
Egypt 995,450 km2
Turkey 769,632 km2
Spain 498,980 km2
Sweden 410,335 km2
Germany 348,672 km2
United Kingdom 241,930 km2
Syria 183,630 km2
Iceland 100,250 km2
Czech Republic     77,247 km2

Moons

Orbital period: T = 20 Rhours = 69 480 seconds (precession makes this weird)

Jofwu

Roshar has 50 minutes/hour, 20 hours/day, 5 days/week, 10 weeks/month (50-day months), 10 months/year (500-day years). Brandon and Peter have said that a Rosharan year is 1.10 Earth years and that a Rosharan hour is shorter than an Earth hour. (This suggests we should assume the 1.10 number is precise.)

The definition of a year is somewhat ambiguous. The Rosharan year above clearly refers to a solar year, so we will assume that the 1.10 number compares solar years. An Earth solar year is 365.24219 SI days of exactly 24 SI hours. So for Earth we'll use 60 minutes/hour, 24 hours/day, 7 days/week, 30 days/month, and 365.24219 days/year.

---

Using R to represent Roshar and E to represent Earth:

1 R minute = 1.16 E minutes = 69.4 E seconds

1 R hour = 0.964 E hours = 57.9 E minutes

1 R day = 0.804 E days = 19.3 E hours

1 R week = 0.574 E weeks = 4.02 E days

1 R month = 1.34 E months = 40.2 E days

1 R year = 1.10 E years = 13.4 E months = 402 E days

---

A 10 year-old Rosharan is 11 in Earth years.

A 20 year-old Rosharan is 22 in Earth years.

A 80 year-old Rosharan is 88 in Earth years.