Shardcast: The Heralds

Why do you assume Jezrien is dead?  I thought it was possible his soul was just trapped in the sapphire gem. If you then do that to every herald, it would break the oathpact. Of course, permanently killing them would do that also. I was just surprised there was no debate about Jezrien's fate. Is there a WOB or something?

4 minutes ago, Uvadoc06 said:

Why do you assume Jezrien is dead?  I thought it was possible his soul was just trapped in the sapphire gem. If you then do that to every herald, it would break the oathpact. Of course, permanently killing them would do that also. I was just surprised there was no debate about Jezrien's fate. Is there a WOB or something?

I personally have always thought he's in that and could be removed from that gem and come back to life. There was just a lot to talk about in this one, and we still went way over time. Sorry! 

Oh, ok. So I'm not crazy. The black smoke like Nightblood and Ash's sensation, could certainly mean a permanent death, but since we had just seen an unmade trapped in a gem, that was my first impression. 

I'm most excited for seeing how all the Heralds react to Jezrien's death/feeling his pain. We saw Ash and Taln's  reaction before passing out, but I want to know their thoughts upon waking up (though this 1 year time-skip might ruin that hope for me). But what about all the other Heralds out there? Would they take it as a sign/would it help wake them up? Especially Nale, he just decided to side with the Singers but now they just killed one of his companions. I just want to know man

I think the first 5 books will end with the current invasion and everstorm being repelled. Perhaps via the Champion challenge since Odium agreed to it.  I think the back 5 will be about getting a new holder for Odium and maybe combining it with something else to stabilize it. 

Dalinar seems on the path to Shardhood, but a fun surprise would be if Rayse died and Kaladin became the holder of Odium. I think he would be a good vessel for Odium, in the short term anyways. He is already becoming very practiced at getting his own overwhelming hatred under control and binding it to a code. I would imagine Syl would be part of the whole as well since she is bonded with Kaladin's soul. A tiny bit of Honor would be merged in there.  

Jasnah ascending would be very Brandon. The atheist becomes a god. She is kind of like Sazed in that she studied world religions and history very closely, she just doesn't believe in them. 

I'm definitely more opposed to Dova being Battar based on what we know than any of you. He claims that's how he knew of the Desolations, but we know he learned about it from Gavilar's visions. And he wouldn't necessarily be exposed immediately @Windrunner. Dova is part of the Diagram. She could hide out somewhere and Taravangian could just say she left. 

The binder of gods thing reminds me of the dawnshard "known to bind any creature voidish or mortal". It's most likely unrelated, but still the first thing I thought of. 

I don't think any of you called the Eighty's War by name, which amused me. Which brings up the question of why it's called that, there is no obvious reason we know. 

Firstly, Congratulations on becoming pure investiture @WeiryWriter.

By Vedel's Golden Keys! this entire podcast has gotten my theory cogs turning, I hadn't noticed @Argent's observation about the Herald's insanity being linked to their divine attributes, and that was mind-blowing to say the least. Also, I now ship Ash and Taln to a degree previously only had by Elend and Vin.

Hey guys great podcast! Perfect for brainstorming new theories on the Heralds! I agree with @Argent and @Wyndlerunner, I can totally see the link between the Herald's attributes and insanity. Also, if Taln is going to be "rebuilt" only to be sent to Braize, I cannot see it happening without Ash. Now that you've mentioned that I can't get them out of my head. As far as Jezrien's 'death', I don't think he's dead persay. I think he is stuck in that gemstone, now he's a captive to the Fused and Odium and they are going to use them against the Heralds. He was the 'test'. Nale already is on Odium's side now, no need to 'kill' him yet. But I foresee Moash doing this again. Notice the gemstone on the pommel was Sapphire? The stone associated with him and Windrunners? The other ones will have the associated gemstones for the prospective Herald. 

Hey @WieryWriter, what's your secret? How did you become pure Investiture? Congrats.

I always thought that Taln's nickname of from the Way of Kings prelude.

Quote

“You might call it a miracle. Only one of us died this time.”

“Talenel,” Kalak said. His was the only Blade unaccounted for. “Yes. He died holding that passage by the northern waterway.”

Kalak nodded. Taln had a tendency to choose seemingly hopeless fights and win them. He also had a tendency to die in the process.

No matter how fantastic he is at fighting, choosing a poor spot must lead to terrific amounts of pain. Even watching him get overrun, losing body parts, stabbed, trampled, bashed with carapace weapons must be a terrible way to die and even watching him heal and continue to fight until his injuries are unable to be healed through Investiture was probably horrific.

Hey! That was my "Who's That Cosmere Character"! I totally forgot to put my name on it unfortunately . I also accidentally sent it to whosethatcosmerecharacter. I was clearly not having one of my best days. Glad you guys were smart enough to pickup the misspelled email since I wasn't smart enough to spell it correctly . But the message I got for sending it to the wrong one was pretty awesome so I guess it was worth it. 

10 hours ago, Percula1869 said:

Hey! That was my "Who's That Cosmere Character"! I totally forgot to put my name on it unfortunately . I also accidentally sent it to whosethatcosmerecharacter. I was clearly not having one of my best days. Glad you guys were smart enough to pickup the misspelled email since I wasn't smart enough to spell it correctly . But the message I got for sending it to the wrong one was pretty awesome so I guess it was worth it. 

Could you share that message? it sounds like it would be pretty funny.

Ditto. @Percula1869 I am curious to see this silly message!

Here ya go. (I hope I didn't over hype it.) 

You spent a long time talking about why the fused were scared to perma-kill (or trap?) Jezrien. My reading of that scene was that they were just scared of the knife that was going to do the stabbing. It is a potent artifact with the power to kill or capture a cognitive shadow with an inherent respawn ability. It is no wonder the fused wouldn't want to touch it.

9 hours ago, ccstat said:

You spent a long time talking about why the fused were scared to perma-kill (or trap?) Jezrien. My reading of that scene was that they were just scared of the knife that was going to do the stabbing. It is a potent artifact with the power to kill or capture a cognitive shadow with an inherent respawn ability. It is no wonder the fused wouldn't want to touch it.

I don't know, pretty much every weapon is deadly to humans, but a lot of humans have no qualms holding and using them. The argument that the Fused were somehow afraid either Jezrien or the knife makes very little sense to me.

@Argent See I think that this weapon Moash used on Jezrien was maybe something new? Recently created by possibly the Antifabrian community? Maybe while researching Shardplate, they stumbled across a way to trap a Cognitive Shadow? Did any of the Fused actually hold the knife before handing it to Moash?

49 minutes ago, whattheHoid said:

Did any of the Fused actually hold the knife before handing it to Moash?

Lady Leshwi hands it to him, so yeah. She even unsheaths it as she hands it to him, so it's probably a Nightblood-like situation where the sheath is important.

That thought also ran through my mind that this knife has some "Nightblood" properties. I guess we'll find out the significance of this knife if Moash is ordered to kill another Herald again. Maybe you can remove the 'infused' gemstone and replace it with other gems, maybe one for each Herald?

I really hope the Jezrien-ending knife's power is only along the lines of ending Heralds. If it also involves capturing a Herald's power to transfer to another, that would be far too similar to the blinding knife from the Lightbringer series by Brent Weeks. As Hoid opines at the closing of Way of Kings, timeliniess is valued more highly than invintiveness, and even if Brandon came up with such an idea ages ago, sadly it's no longer a novel notion for me since I've already read of such a thing elsewhere.

16 hours ago, Czernobog said:

If it also involves capturing a Herald's power to transfer to another, that would be far too similar to the blinding knife from the Lightbringer series by Brent Weeks.

Yeah, it's really difficult for me not to conflate the two... 

This was so interesting to listen to! I also agree that the Heralds' insanity seems to tie into their divine attributes, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who got romantic vibes from the Taln and Ash scenes. I really hope Jezrien isn't dead dead, simply because it seems like that sort of thing would have a lot of finality to it, if you get what I mean? The Heralds are pretty much regarded as divinities by the in-world characters, and to have one of these eternal figures be killed feels really wrong. On the other hand, I thought the same thing about Leras dying but that was a thing so there's really no telling. So many interesting ideas in this podcast...

On 7/14/2018 at 8:38 PM, Percula1869 said:

Here ya go. (I hope I didn't over hype it.) 

Not at all! this made my day!

1 hour ago, Wyndlerunner said:

Not at all! this made my day!

I'm glad you like it. 

@Uvadoc06I think jesrien is dead because of what I think nightblood and the mysterious blade to be. Bear with me.

Conjecture : if nightblood was modeled after shard blades then the creators should be aware of other worlds with their unique investiture.

Fact: Vasher went to roshar to feed off of stormlight instead of breaths suggest that he is able to take in stormlight. (Does he have a spren or employ an honor blade?).

Wob: nightblood is the most invested object in the cosmere. Stupidly over invested. *Paraphrased*

Theory 1: nightblood is an amalgimation of all 16 investiture. Something that invested would theoretically obliterate anything it touches. It satifies Brandon's statement that it is the most invested object in the cosmere through sheer variety... given that the mystery blade has not been invested enough to cause awakening. (Would one need to actually reach the 9th heightening to awaken steel or can one substitute other investiture in place of breath)

Fact: hamony sees trell as a threat.

Q. Is trell a shard 

- if yes. theory 1.

- if no. theory 2

Theory 2: nightblood is corrupted by trell investiture.

One thing I'd like to add regarding Mraize and his conversation with Shallash: The knowledge that Shallash was going around destroying depictions of herself is relatively obscure. However, the knowledge that Shallash and Taln were intimate is even more so. Mraize uses Shallash's history with Taln to ensnare her very effectively. The Ghostbloods as a worldhopper organisation appear to be far more competent than they are given credit for.