The Hemalurgic Table of Metals!

2 minutes ago, Voidus said:

See the weird part is that we know that seeing the future in the cosmere isn't completely reliable, especially the further into the future you go you can only see possibilities, not a single predefined destiny.
So does Chromium steal simply your possible futures? Or a single possible future? Or does it have access to something more reliable than Shardic future sight?

Good point. Because if it took all of your futures, then one of them would be to be spiked. And if you were spiked with it and survived (seeing the chart, if you were spiked in the wrist bindpoint you could survive), then what would you be? How would you live if all of your futures were taken? Would you just seize to exist?

So I think it might be stealing a single future. But then, how do you make it so specific? How fo you differentiate between becoming the Hero of Ages and  becoming the Hero of Ages except you didn’t eat that one cheesecake in that ball.

I count 47 spike locations in this diagram. Is one spike location as good as another? 

All these comments about cannon and non cannon are silly. Of course it's cannon. Even tables that contradict themselves are cannon. They were written by characters in the books according to their research and understanding. Looking at this one, my guess is that it was made by 

This also explains the "might steal destiny" part. The author of the table (in book not Sanderson) isn't sure. They're research isn't conclusive.

So wait - does Aluminum remove the powers of the person it is spiked into? Is it permanent, or only as long as the spike lasts?

This is spicy. Can't wait to see this actually in effect!

11 hours ago, Sterling said:

This also explains the "might steal destiny" part. The author of the table (in book not Sanderson) isn't sure. They're research isn't conclusive.

So then how would they know what lerasium does? Seems odd that they're not sure about chromium but are sure in lerasium, a god metal which is only available in a few small beads which have probably been removed with the remaking of the world.

5 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

So wait - does Aluminum remove the powers of the person it is spiked into? Is it permanent, or only as l

Well, all of the spike description say what they would do to the victim of the spike (eg. Stealing strength or stealing senses), so following that logic the spike would remove the powers of whoever it was spiked from. Once it's charged, I'm not even sure if the spike would be useful anymore. It doesn't steal powers from the victim, it removes them.

Who do we think made the table? Here are the possibilities:

Khrissalla.

Kelsier & Spook.

Marsh.

The Lord Ruler.

Or the Canton of Inquisition.

Personally I think it was either TLR or Marsh as they have more intimate understanding of Hemalurgy and the god metals then anyone else. Thoughts?

23 hours ago, I think I am here. said:

So then how would they know what lerasium does? Seems odd that they're not sure about chromium but are sure in lerasium, a god metal which is only available in a few small beads which have probably been removed with the remaking of the world.

My guess is that they may have had a little help from harmony in filling out this table.

1 minute ago, MacThorstenson said:

My guess is that they may have had a little help from harmony in filling out this table.

Doesn't Harmony disapprove of Hemalurgy though?

Just now, I think I am here. said:

Doesn't Harmony disapprove of Hemalurgy though?

You're right. But I just had an epiphany, Kelsier held the shard of preservation for a while, and thus would know what his godmetal did, no? I think that he wouldn't know about the rest of the metals instinctively, but he would know about what his metal did.

3 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

You're right. But I just had an epiphany, Kelsier held the shard of preservation for a while, and thus would know what his godmetal did, no? I think that he wouldn't know about the rest of the metals instinctively, but he would know about what his metal did.

I can see that.

I suspect the answer to the ‘refined atium’ is a bit more boring then everyone is hoping for.

Lerasium makes you a Mistborn; alloying Learasium with other metals makes you a misting of that metal.

Using atium as a spike might steal all powers, but alloying it might allow you to steal a specific power, but with some small added bonus of like no loss of power in transfer.

Maybe you could use it to steal multiples of the same power from different mistings, then grant you compunded power, like Vin’s earring compunded on her existing bronze?

@SteveD Whilst that may seem to be the most "boring" answer, that would imply that the atium geodes (Assumedly what the atium is being "refined" from) is an alloy and that all the atium affects we've seen (From beads that grant future sight to metalminds that store youth) aren't actually atiums attributes but the attribute of the alloy that your answer implies it to be.

On 1/5/2019 at 5:42 PM, xinoehp512 said:

So wait - does Aluminum remove the powers of the person it is spiked into? Is it permanent, or only as long as the spike lasts?

This is spicy. Can't wait to see this actually in effect!

This struck me as why would someone do this? Why not just kill them? Spiking seems complicated and meticulous and only worth it because you're transferring powers. If it doesn't transfer powers what is the point?

How do we define "spike", would an aluminum bullet that gets lodged in the body count? Or does it have to go in and come out of the body? 

2 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

This struck me as why would someone do this? Why not just kill them? Spiking seems complicated and meticulous and only worth it because you're transferring powers. If it doesn't transfer powers what is the point?

How do we define "spike", would an aluminum bullet that gets lodged in the body count? Or does it have to go in and come out of the body? 

Some people are hard to kill.  Like Hoid and Surgebinders.  If the spike removes their powers, then they'd be much easier to kill.  

4 hours ago, Overlord Jebus said:

@SteveD Whilst that may seem to be the most "boring" answer, that would imply that the atium geodes (Assumedly what the atium is being "refined" from) is an alloy and that all the atium affects we've seen (From beads that grant future sight to metalminds that store youth) aren't actually atiums attributes but the attribute of the alloy that your answer implies it to be.

I see what you mean, but wouldn’t you call a metal straight from the ground an ore, rather then an alloy?

My materials chemistry was never that good, but an alloy seems to suggest specific metals mixed at specific quantities; raw metals you’ve dug up are mixed with all kinds of different stuff in all manner of quantities.

One thing that seemed odd about atium in ‘THoA’ is that it gets dug up then taken immediately to lutherdel but (I think) then most of it gets diverted back to the Kandra homeland in secret. Then this store gets burned away by the atium mistings without ever being refined or purified, which goes against what we know about the purity requirements of allomancy metals as described in book 1 & 2?

So, maybe that’s another feature of atium as a ‘god metal’? And maybe you still need to purify it by refining to get a metal you can alloy with others?

11 hours ago, SteveD said:

One thing that seemed odd about atium in ‘THoA’ is that it gets dug up then taken immediately to lutherdel but (I think) then most of it gets diverted back to the Kandra homeland in secret. Then this store gets burned away by the atium mistings without ever being refined or purified, which goes against what we know about the purity requirements of allomancy metals as described in book 1 & 2?

Well that's the thing, because they are able to burn the beads away immediately without any refinement implies that they are pure atium. We've never had any hints that they aren't pure atium. Again, this is why it's interesting and kind of confusing.

The beads also aren't an ore, they form from Ruins investiture leaking into the pRealm via the geodes. They are more similar to clams forming a pearl than any sort of natural process of mining/refining metal.

4 hours ago, Overlord Jebus said:

Well that's the thing, because they are able to burn the beads away immediately without any refinement implies that they are pure atium. We've never had any hints that they aren't pure atium. Again, this is why it's interesting and kind of confusing.

I agree, but I think because it's never been clarified, it might also be possible that burning God-metals simply follow different rules to world-metals? Isn't using Atium as an Allomantic metal in some way the same as combining investitures, as happens on Roshar? In that case, maybe weird things are to be expected.

Preservation may also have designed Allomancy with the intent that Atium would always be a burnable metal, regardless of quality, due to the importance of that in his overall plan for the survival of life on Sel. 

4 hours ago, Overlord Jebus said:

The beads also aren't an ore, they form from Ruins investiture leaking into the pRealm via the geodes. They are more similar to clams forming a pearl than any sort of natural process of mining/refining metal.

Does the metal come directly from part of Ruin leaking from the spiritual realm? I know there used to be a perpendicularity there (belonging to Ruin?), but there is also something in the Alendi log of a black metallic lake, and I'd thought that was meant to have been relocate by Rashek into pools below the pits, where Atium is squeezed up and forms inside the geodes.

On 1/7/2019 at 0:16 PM, MacThorstenson said:

You're right. But I just had an epiphany, Kelsier held the shard of preservation for a while, and thus would know what his godmetal did, no? I think that he wouldn't know about the rest of the metals instinctively, but he would know about what his metal did.

Kelsier held the shard of Preservation not Ruin. Harmony is the only one with the perfect knowledge of hemalurgy and looks like he's not sharing ( he even lies or keep information to himself like how it doesn't seem possible for kandra to gain allomantic abilities before bleeder did show she could).

Kelsier might know things but remember previous vessels or slivers as people might call it don't remember everything they learned as a vessel (Vin and Rashek are the proof). And Kelsier didn't even have the right shard who would contain all knowledge of hemalurgy.

Yeah Rashek and Marsh might have more intimate knowledge with Hemalurgy but even both wasn't willing to share.